12 Step Workshop – Chris S. – Manor, TX – 2008 – Part 3
AA speaker Chris S. walks through Steps 1-12 in depth, focusing on inventory work, character defects, making amends, and spiritual awakening as the foundation of recovery from alcoholism.
Chris S. from Manor, TX breaks down the twelve steps with the precision of someone who’s lived them repeatedly. In this AA speaker workshop, he explains Step 1’s mental obsession and unmanageability, then guides listeners through inventory work, the Fifth Step confession, character defects, amends, and the daily spiritual disciplines that create lasting recovery.
This AA speaker workshop covers Steps 1-12 in practical detail, emphasizing inventory work (resentments, fears, and harms), the role of character defects, and the necessity of making direct amends as the foundation for spiritual awakening. Chris S. stresses that recovery requires actual participation in these spiritual exercises—not just attending meetings—and that the message of AA is the spiritual awakening itself, carried through intensive work with other alcoholics. He discusses how step work done repeatedly peels back layers of self-deception, leading to emotional sobriety, freedom from obsession, and a shift from selfishness to service.
Episode Summary
This is a comprehensive AA speaker workshop delivered across two days, with Chris S. focusing on the practical mechanics of the twelve steps and what it actually takes to move from active alcoholism into sustained spiritual recovery.
Chris S. opens by addressing the nature of Step 1: the mental obsession unique to alcoholics—the inability to accurately judge how much damage a drink will cause—paired with the unmanageability that follows even in brief periods of sobriety. He describes the daily experience of an untreated alcoholic as one of restlessness, irritability, discontent, and self-centered fear. He frames alcoholism itself as a desperate, misguided attempt to fill a “god-shaped hole”—a disconnection from the Divine that alcoholics try to fill with substances, sex, food, or control. Recovery, he explains, is learning to place ourselves in the sunlight of the spirit by participating in the recovery process itself.
Steps 2 and 3 move from belief to action. In Step 2, we come to believe by witnessing recovered alcoholics in the rooms. In Step 3, we make an unreserved decision to let go of our thinking mind’s need to figure everything out beforehand—the ego’s constant war against surrender.
The heart of his teaching centers on Step 4 and the inventory process. Chris S. emphasizes that most treatment centers leave newcomers to fumble through inventory alone, armed only with a sick mind. He teaches the disciplined approach: a four-column inventory listing resentments, fears, harms caused, and the patterns they reveal. He shares his own experience of initially viewing himself as a “scumbag” until his sponsor helped him see that alcoholism preceded his first drink—he was like a campfire whose coals were already burning before alcohol was poured on them.
The Fifth Step shifts the person from isolation to incorporation with the human race. Chris S. describes his own Fifth Step as a spiritual experience because it crushed his ego and gave him an accurate self-appraisal—humility defined not as self-hatred but as knowing exactly where you fit in the universe.
For Steps 6 and 7, Chris S. introduces a reframing borrowed from Bill W.: approach character defects with the same desperation and surrender with which you approached alcoholism. Don’t try to fix them yourself—participate in the recovery process and let God remove them. He acknowledges that many hold back (keeping lust, ambition, or control) and that willingness is often an evolution.
Steps 8 and 9, the amends process, receive intense focus. Chris S. shares a story of sponsoring a man who compulsively stole—gum, cigarettes—rationalizing it away. By listing every theft and making direct amends to stores and managers, the man’s behavior shifted. There was a spiritual awakening. Chris S. was criticized in meetings for taking amends seriously, but he argues that real alcoholics with genuine spiritual malady need to address it fully or relapse becomes inevitable. He emphasizes the clarity needed: make the amends or put alcohol back in your body. There is no third option.
For Step 10, he frames it as a reactive, moment-to-moment discipline. Throughout the day, use the tools from Steps 4-9 instantly—inventory resentments, talk about them, ask God to remove the character defect, make amends if needed. This requires practice. Spirituality demands discipline, and undisciplined, immature alcoholics must become practiced at the spiritual life.
Step 11 opens the door wide to spirituality while maintaining AA as the foundation. Upon waking, throughout the day, and in evening review, practice prayer and meditation. Feed the soul with spiritual knowledge. He’s comfortable in Christian disciplines but has also studied Eastern traditions and Native American teachings. The key is personal buy-in—trust your intuition, the “sixth sense,” and listen to inner guidance. But never become so spiritual you disappear from the fellowship.
Step 12, the culmination, is about carrying the message of spiritual awakening—not slogans, not cookies at meetings, but intensive work with other alcoholics. He stresses that a hundred thousand people die of alcoholism yearly in America, and many more die in AA itself because they never address the recovery process, merely white-knuckling sobriety. The message is the steps themselves: consistent attendance, finding a sponsor with real experience, working through the steps, and then serving others in the same way.
Chris S. closes with the principle of practicing these principles in all affairs—a lifetime process. He advocates for repeated step work, not a one-time event. Each time through peels back another layer. Most people who’ve done multiple Fifth Steps won’t argue they should have done it only once. Alcoholism is described medically as a chronic relapsing disease, but recovery is possible through sustained spiritual practice, service, and right relationship with God and others.
Notable Quotes
The whole thing about recovery is being able to place ourselves in the sunlight of the spirit. We can do that through participation in the recovery process.
Humility is defined best as an accurate self-appraisal—exactly where you fit into the universe.
The Fifth Step shifted my perspective from really thinking I was a scumbag to maybe being a human being.
Make the amends or put alcohol back in your body. There is no door number three.
The message is the spiritual awakening. That has gotten so lost in oral tradition that we talk about anything and everything but that.
Nothing will ensure immunity from alcohol like intensive work with other alcoholics.
Every single time I’ve gone through the steps again it’s like peeling another layer of the onion back. I am now even clearer in my perspective and my quality of life increases.
Step 5 – Admission
Steps 6 & 7 – Character Defects
Steps 8 & 9 – Making Amends
Step 10 – Daily Inventory
Step 11 – Prayer & Meditation
Step 12 – Carrying the Message
Sponsorship
Spiritual Awakening
Big Book Study
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Step 5 – Admission
- Steps 6 & 7 – Character Defects
- Steps 8 & 9 – Making Amends
- Step 10 – Daily Inventory
- Step 11 – Prayer & Meditation
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Sponsorship
- Spiritual Awakening
- Big Book Study
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
welcome to sober Sunrise a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience strength and Hope from around the world we bring you several new speakers weekly so be sure to subscribe whether you join us in the morning or at night there’s nothing better than a sober Sunrise we hope that you enjoy today’s speaker all right I talked a little bit about the spiritual experience yesterday we did a four-step workshop um we talked about steps one two 3 and four a little bit just briefly step one if you’re an alcoholic or an addict uh you are going to be subject to a mental Obsession that’s the inability to accurately appraise the the the the size of the mistake you’re going to make by putting something back in your body you don’t have access to sound reasoning and sane reasoning once uh once a substance is in your body you have little or no control over the amount you take uh you’re on you’re you’re in it for the ride and it’s going to drag you around as long as it needs to drag you around until you you know get separated somehow one more time uh but then there’s a dash that our lives have become unmanageable on a good day Restless irritable and discontent this is without any substances in you this is in your brief period of sobriety uh restless aable and discontent uh prey to misery depression resentment anxiety shame guilt remorse all that self-centered fear that just that just binds you to self that’s a normal day a bad day is Terror frustration despair you know pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization who who wants to live like that that’s that’s after the dash our lives have become unmanageable emotionally unmanageable spiritually unmanageable mentally unmanageable we’re a mess we’re a mess um that’s step one some really really wise people have made the comment that the alcoholic is someone Desperately Seeking connection to the Divine Desperately Seeking a connection to to God we we it’s been described to me like this is a god-shaped hole that that only God will fill we try to fill it with drugs we try to fill it with alcohol we try to fill it with sex we try to fill it with toys we try we try to fill it with food you know we’re we’re we just want to feel better we want to feel like right we want to feel a connection that connection to the Divine that we that seems to be absent in the alcoholic or the drug addict we’re Desperately Seeking a connection to the world and we’re using sub we’re using things outside of ourselves to try to fill that the problem is it’s an inside job it’s an inside job spirituality is an inside job we need to uh we need to participate in the recovery process and we need to let God fill that hole the whole the the whole thing about recovery is being able to place ourselves in the sunlight of the spirit we can do that through participation in the recovery process asking God please give me the strength and direction to participate in this recovery process we can do that work and that translates into placing ourselves in the spiritual climate where God can come in and relieve us of our Obsession to drink and help us with the unmanageability in life in step two we come to believe that there’s a power there’s a power because we see it in the in the rooms we see it in other recovered alcoholics and addicts we know there’s a power um we believe that there’s a power there’s a power and we come to believe that maybe maybe we can access that power too it’s certainly worth the effort the time and the effort step three is okay I’m in you know I I I believe that there’s a I believe that there’s a power that I can access I believe that there’s a way to recover from alcoholism or drug addiction uh I’m in I’m in tell me what to do and you need to do that unreservedly unreservedly please do not let your thinking mind try to figure out the spiritual exercise before you take it okay well if I do this this will happen and I don’t know if I really need that you know because that’s what we’ll do the ego is at war with the spirit this is a conflict that goes back in time I mean I used to see it on the cartoons when I was a kid there’d be the little devil on this show and the little angel on this shoulder and they’d be they’d be trying to talk the guy into to doing so you know you ought to go do this selfish thing no you ought to be really nice I mean there there’s a conflict within us uh uh just just because we’re human it’s it’s a human nature and we need to try to rightly relate ourselves to uh to the spiritual uh rather than than the selfish and so in step three we make a decision to do that just what do we do what do we do with that okay I’ve made a decision what do I do we talked yesterday about inventory uh we need to we need to look at the things in our lives that have been blocking us off from effective relationships with God our our fellow man and ourselves we need to look at what’s going on and Bill was great he he picked he picked three things resentments fears and the harms that we cause that’s a great great place to start looking at what is going wrong in our lives how do why do you know why do we keep shooting ourselves in the foot how does that work what does that look like and we start to and inventory and really I think it’s the I for me it was the first time I ever tried to look at my own problems you know what how where was I at fault I wasn’t running around trying to figure out where I was at fault it was you you know you were at fault if it was my fault that’ be inconvenient you know what I mean I I might have to take responsibility for it if it’s my fault I don’t want it to be my fault so this exercise is basically an exercise at looking at how we’re showing up in life and the things that we’re doing wrong you know how we relate ourselves to the universe to ourselves and to our fellow man we need to look at that now we put that whole thing together uh we list out all the people we’re resentful that a you know good four column inventory you learn it here I know that fear inventory arms to others emphasis on sex you you you learn uh you learn how to do that discipline here do do you know what’s crazy this is it’s really really rare to find a treatment or Recovery Center that teaches you how to do it they kind of leave it to you you know you should do a four step okay I I mean they leave it to so so you have a sick alcoholic mind and you’re go you’re going into this exercise with your sick alcoholic M let some let somebody show you how how to do this and this is the right place for it now you you have this this pile of papers it’s the it’s the whole pathetic you know uh uh conglomeration of everything you’ve ever done wrong and you it’s like the whole Milla and you’re carrying around carrying around like it’s plutonium I I kept mine like underneath a spare tire in the trunk of my car you know just in case I didn’t want anybody thinking I was small you know I think I was so pathetic and uh you know my sponsor said well you know I was worried about somebody finding out I’m I’m in recovery I’m trying to get better uh my sponsor one time said cuz I you know was I was I was worried about that I knew somebody at a meeting from outside he he goes chrisy he’s just going to have to figure out why you don’t park on his lawn anymore you know you know what I mean uh don’t worry about him seeing you in here anyway uh the this step is you take this whole Treatise on your your dysfunction and you share it with somebody you get an opportunity to do that more than once here I have personal experience with multiple fist steps uh the last multiple fist step I did I did it with appear one of his one of his prospects and one of my prospects and it was beautiful because here’s what it did uh the ego that I Tau talked about being at war with the spirit this was this just crushed my ego because you know I had to read the you here I am you know spiritual Chris S you know and I’m you know what I mean and I’m reading one pathetic thing after the other and I’m you know I’m going like this my ego is just going like this and and when I got done with that I had an accurate self appraisal of myself you know my ego wants me to think I’m such hot crap uh you know you know what humility is defined best as an accurate self appraisal exactly where you fit into the universe you know that’s that’s true that’s true humility and the fist step is really really geared toward getting us right size some of the things that happened to me some of my my personal experiences over the years with with fist steps are like that but my earlier experience with the fist step was I always thought I was an incredible scumbag okay I mean listen I did some really bad things out there you know when you put as much alcohol in your body as I did you’re you’re going to do crimes you know you’re going to take advantage of people uh you’re going to use people for sex you’re going to do all of these things that are going to contribute to a lack of self-esteem the shame the guilt remorse all this this you know you’re afraid to walk down certain streets and what what the fist step did was the fist step shifted my my perspective from really thinking I was a scumbag a special scumbag by the way I was no run-of-the-mill scumbag you know how the ego is but it was a shift from being a scumbag to maybe being a human being when I got done with my first fist step my my sponsor stopped me and he said Chris you know that wasn’t so bad and I was thinking that wasn’t so bad you know and I and I was I started to think you know what that wasn’t so bad and then he said listen I believe that you were an alcoholic before you put alcohol into your body and truly I’m in that camp today I believe that alcoholism is is much deeper and that bottles are only a symbol I think we we grasp for bottles because of our alcoholism you know um trying to solve something deep inside ourselves that we just we we just can’t solve he goes I believe that you were powerless over alcohol long before you put alcohol in your body and you were like Chris you were like a campfire that would had burning you know had had coals that were just red with heat and when you took your first drink it was like throwing gas on that campfire all of a sudden it flamed up and it burned everybody you included uh around he goes uh he goes today you’ve recognized that problem and you’re making significant efforts to become a better person lighten up on yourself a little bit you know cuz cuz he could he could tell that you know I was you you know how we are you can’t look anybody in the eye uh it’s it’s funny uh some some places you guys are looking me in the eye I know there’s something happening here I I speak in places where I’ll look at you you know I away you can’t even can’t even look at you know I’m speaking around I got I got an opportunity to I was the commencement speaker at the New Jersey Drug Court graduation and I got to tell you looking around nobody was looking at me in the eye I might figure him out you know uh you get to a point where you don’t care if somebody figures you out and that’s that’s a that’s a very very healthy thing anyway anyway the the fifth step is an exercise in in in beginning to move from separation from everybody to incorporation with everybody in other words I’m I’m starting to feel like I’m a member of the human race all of the spiritual Masters all of the great spiritual Masters believe that our our perceptions of being separate from are Illusions they believe that we’re we’re all part of a godhead or we’re all part of something bigger than our specific personality or or uh uh or individual uh unit ourselves and and that’s that’s a healthy that’s a healthy view to have um the fitstep was my beginning of getting away from separation into incorporation with other people and I started I had a I had a spiritual experience because of that step now because there was really no U no hardcore uh experienced recovery individuals that were working with me during my first time I took some time off to um to fix my Character defects you know to work on to work on my Character defects anybody have experience working on your Character defects that’s a lot of fun isn’t it you I’m not going to be selfish anymore yeah give me that I I mean you know last like 2 seconds uh so I banged my head against the wall for several months working on my Character defects my experience today is um and I learned I learned a little bit of this from uh God bless him Bill W in the uh the 12 and 12 he he gave me a consideration and what the consideration was is how about going to God with the same sense of desperation and surrender with my Character defects that I went to God with with my alcoholism how about looking at powerlessness over Character defects and needing to engage in a recovery process to participate in a recovery process and have God ultimately be responsible for the removal of those Character defects I need to participate it says in the 12 and 12 that God God will not render us white as snow without our cooperation h so if that’s true how then shall I cooperate I need to cooperate by following spiritual principles engaging in the spiritual life working the rest of these steps so um so step six become willing to have God remove these defects of character not work it doesn’t say begin to work on your own Character defects you know so that you can get more money and toys the step says become willing to have God remov these defects of character then then the original reading of of Step seven is humbly on our knees ask God to remove these these shortcomings holding nothing back um that’s an act of surrender that’s an act of humility humbly on our knees ask God to remove these shortcomings holding nothing back you know if we’re not willing to let go of some things uh we need to pray for the willingness to let go of some of them a lot of us think a lot of us think when we head into step six and step seven that we’re absolutely yes take everything absolutely well how about lust well hold on a minute there you know if uh if God removes my lust I may never get laid again you know I better hang on to that how about work how about work I can’t let God run my work I’m in sales I’ve got to be a shark out there you know so some of us some of us it’s human nature some of us are going to hold on to whether conscious or unconsciously hold on to some control over these Character defects and the ones that we hold on to those are those are the ones that there’s not going to be a lot of progress with I think it’s an evolution I you know it was in my case uh I you know today today I can sit here and I can say I am willing to have God remove all of my Character defects you know because I’ve got I’ve got some experience with these steps I know today that living a spiritual life is going to offer me a lot more than anything I can desire myself from from myself so I can say that but it was an evolution for for me I had to go through this steps a number of times before I really got got clear on on some of these things now going to God in an attitude of surrender and an attitude of desperation with our Character defects holding nothing back is a great place to be at now what about the removal of these Character defects how does that work I believe that the best possible spiritual atmosphere you can be in for the removal of your Character defects is to become willing to make amends to the institutions and people where the who who those Character defects have harmed our Character defects cause harm to others when we become willing to make direct amends to them and we actually go out and make direct amends to those we haveed armed uh except when to do so would injure them or others when we place ourselves within that discipline that’s the best possible spiritual climate for the removal of Character defects I want to share real quick u a story and this is a good example of that shift that removal of Character defects through making amends I I sponsored this guy for about 10 years great great individual he was uh you know he was a he was a city a town iant tough guy you know mobbed up guy you know uh just really really tough and he stole I mean this guy stole he couldn’t go into a 7-Eleven without grabbing a pack of cigarettes a pack of gum you know and I saw him do that one time and you know this is like this is like five years into working with the guy I’m like what are you doing you you stole a pack of gum he goes they got budgets for that they write that off what are you talking about I’m like you’re not supposed to do that you’re you’re stealing it’s just gum no you’re stealing okay you’re stealing I don’t care if they’ve got a budget I don’t care if it’s an insurance write off you’re Ste it’s not your gum so you know we we we did an inventory on it and uh and this individual was was willing to change his perspective he was willing to follow Direction I had him list out every single seven in every single store that he ever stole gum or cigarettes to he wasn’t real happy about this but he was willing and he started going around and he you know he came up with some amount of money and he started paying back the 7-Elevens and the stores that he bought he’d get the manager you know let me ask you a question you think he still steals gum you’re damn right he doesn’t you know it’s it’s not it’s not part of his operational methodology anymore there’s been a shift there’s been an a Awakening there’s been a recovery I like I like to tell the people I work with to put actually in front of every step because I got to tell you we there’s a lot of 12ep meetings that you go to and the steps are on the wall and you go to the step meetings and but no one is really sharing their personal experience with these things they’re sharing philosophically well philosophically you shouldn’t steal no really you shouldn’t steal and if you have stole you need to pay the money back you know that that may be inconvenient it may be unfortunate but that’s what the recovery program that’s the disciplines of the recovery program you know what I mean so so in Step nine we need we need to become we need to actually go actually go out and make direct amends to the to the to the people and the institutions that we’ve caused harm to I’ve got some personal experience with this and you know what I was like I to my knowledge I was the first person in my immediate AA area to really go out and and re in a disciplined way really list everybody out and start knocking them off and and and go and make direct amends to these people and I got you know I got criticized in meanings when I was sharing about this you know oh you don’t need to do that you know that’s pretty extreme you know paying the money back you just need to keep coming no I didn’t just need to keep coming I I I was a real alcoholic and I had a I had a spiritual malady that was inside me and if that gets unaddressed that spiritual condition called alcoholism if that goes unaddressed the time and the place is going to come and I will put alcohol back in my body and listen I don’t want to do that no one what I know about life today enjoying life the way I do uh I’ll tell you making making the most scary ammend in the world is like nothing compared to putting alcohol back in my body so another thing that I ask ask the people that do who are bking on amends that I work with and some of them do is you need to be very very clear about these amends a make the amends B put alcohol back in your body you’re living in Sea somewhere there’s no CA there’s no C what is SE anyway you got some idea some C there ain’t there ain’t no door number c make the amends put alcohol back in your body it’s as simple as that and if you keep it that simple you’re going to get to a state known as recovery which I can’t even tell you the blessings of that state all right we’ve done our best with uh we’ve done our best with the immense process you know we’ve knocked on a lot of doors uh when we couldn’t knock on doors we’ve written the letters you know cuz there’s people that have passed on or you can’t find there’s ways to get the money back out into the universe there’s ways to set right the wrongs of the past find an experienced guide a sponsor or a spiritual adviser with experience you know don’t don’t pick the first guy at a meeting my guess my guess is if you lined up every meeting in in the United States and you lined everybody that goes to those meetings in the United States maybe 5% of the people have true experience with the steps actual experience with the steps it’s your responsibility to find those people don’t don’t short Change yourself find the PE find the people with experience because there’s a lot of people out there who you’re going to come you’re going to come to some of these steps and they’ll tell you you don’t need to do them because they didn’t do them and they’re still sober and they might be suffering spiritually and emotionally and not even know they’re still suffering from alcoholism they’re in that period of tentative sobriety how free do you want to be how good do you want to feel it it’s all contingent on how well you address these spiritual exercises okay make all the the the shift in perception from having unfinished amends to having no amends unaddressed that you can think of that are your I of that’s a that’s a difference between night and day it’s a difference between black and white and for many of us it’s a difference between life and death it just is so be very very disciplined about it and now sitting in here you’re going to be thinking well that means I’ve got to go make amends to WALL-E oh my God I can never do that let me just tell you that right now right now you don’t have the power to go make that amense you get the you get the spiritual fortitude to make that amends by doing steps 1 through eight and then starting starting on the starting on amends and starting to feel the spiritual power comes in then you will have power to do those amends so don’t ever say no never I never will make those amends because you will have the power to make those amends if you get busy about this recovery process you will you will be able to knock you will be able to knock on Wally’s door you know you’ll hear that sound so the disciplines of 10 and 11 unbelievable unbelievable I I take I take step 10 like this it’s a reactive step it’s a walking around during the day step it’s a right now in this moment step how do I react to to to to the environment how do I react within personal relationships how do I react and because it’s a reactive step we need to we need to use every single discipline of the steps that we’ve been taught and be able to apply them on a moment’s notice every day every day we’re going to fall short in word thought and deed we are going to fall short we’re human beings I’m glad that we fall short every day cuz I don’t like Perfect People you know what I mean per perfect perfect people annoy me and every once in a while there will be a perfect person and and Society will nail him to a cross or something anyway so you know I you know as a human being I’m kind of glad that I’m not perfect so when I act imperfectly I can use the disciplines of the four step I can inventory okay I got to resentment a fear I’ve harmed someone let’s inventory it let’s talk about it with somebody let’s ask God at once to remove the the character defect that caused that let’s make direct amends let’s seek through prayer and meditation uh to better and more rightly relate ourselves to our creator let’s go help somebody now these are all disciplines that we can use in Step 10 in a reactive way we need to become practiced at the spiritual life we need to become practiced at it and how do you learn something you learn by doing um Step 11 i’ like to look at it in three distinct Parts upon Awakening uh as we move through the day and the evening review you know this is another place where you’re becoming disciplined at these things the spiritual life does require certain disciplines because we’re undisciplined we’re disciplined we’re immature you know there’s a number of things if you if you’re alcoholic you’re undisciplined you’re immature you’re overly sensitive you know welcome you know what I mean welcome so so discipline is important discipline is important it’s very very important any spiritual practice has with it discipline you know I’ve had I’ve had the the opportunity to experience some wonderful spiritual teachers and they’re they start you off with disciplines you know and you think well you know why do I need to mop the floor you know I’m I’m pretty spiritually Advanced well you need to mop the floor because you have no discipline you know intellectually you may be spiritually Advanced but look at your life you know look at look at the product of your life so we need to become disciplined uh when I wake up in the morning there’s a period of prayer and meditation that I use uh I always ask God uh to give me the strength and the direction to move through the day uh seeking his will um there’s a number of uh uh of spiritual and religious books that I’ve been involved with I have read mountains of books uh again what really helps me is when I actually practice what those books tell me to practice but irregardless you know I like to feed my soul with with with knowledge and experience uh from people who are more advanced than me me spiritually you know that that hole that I talked about earlier that god-shaped hole that I’m using drugs and booze and sex and you know running around and power and all that stuff um I need to constantly fill that hole with spiritual sustenance I find it I find it in a lot of books now um I’m very very comfortable in the Christian disciplines uh but I’m also I I’ve also exposed myself a lot to the Eastern disciplines uh you know um Native American studies there there’s so there’s a wealth of wonderful information that you can actually transmit that information into an experience um there’s so much of it out there it’s it’s unbelievable and what I tell the people I work with is follow your heart with this stuff um I I hesitate to tell someone they need to specifically be involved in the Christian tradition what I what I like to do is sometimes I I you know I’ll recommend books but sometimes I like to tell them look just go to the religion philosophy sections of a big bookstore meditate a little bit and look at the covers pull them out read the dust jackets find out where you’re pulled find out where you’re pulled because we have to have a serious Buy in with uh with with the spiritual disciplines as we move forward this the spiritual information and and understanding we need to have a personal buyin to it so a lot of times a lot of times we can trust that inner guidance it says that we’ll be uh uh we’ll be rocketed into a fourth dimension it says that uh it talks about a six sense I like to look at that sometimes as being the realm of intuition the realm of deeply knowing truly knowing deep down inside and if we can shove ego aside if we can sh shove that sense of self inside a lot of times we know and start to listen and trust that inner guidance trust that intuitive part of our self and uh and we can do that as we move forward I love the 11th step because it opens the doors to spirituality so wide you know I believe that I need to as a foundation this needs to be my Foundation I cannot move away from this but what I can do is I can add unto this with other spiritual practices so never never be the type of person that gets so spiritual they disappear from the recovery process I know a lot of people who’ have become so Heavenly they’re no earthly good anymore you can’t call them up on a 12-step call I’m not really going to those AA meetings anymore you know I don’t really like the people there you are the people there you know now you’re going to criticize them all you know so so always always that found the foundational text the foundational system of your spirituality really has to be rooted in this if you’re alcoholic or if you’re an addict now now that’s not necessarily so for the rest of the world you know they can get they they can go any Direction they want we need to stay rooted in this because we have we have an illness called alcoholism or drug addiction that can come back on us it can come back on us it’s cunning baffling powerful and aggressive so as long as we stay we use this as our foundation you know we’re going to be good and then we can stretch our wings and we can really enjoy some of the stuff that’s out there there’s some one there’s some Wonder there’s Retreats and there’s great churches and you know there’s a lot of things out there uh there’s a lot of things out there that we can enjoy and that will enrich us now having had a spiritual awakening as this course of action as the result of the 12 Steps we tried to carry this message to other alcoholics other people was the first writing what are they talking about there having had the spiritual awakening as a result of the steps we’re going to carry this message what is the message the message is the spiritual awakening this has gotten so lost this has gotten so lost in oral tradition uh Alcoholics Anonymous that that we talk about anything and everything but that we need to carry the message of a spiritual awakening basically like I’ve done here today and yesterday with you all I’ve basically talked about the processes involved that bring us to A Spiritual Awakening tonight I’ll share a little bit about what the spiritual awakening has has done in in my life but what is the message the message is the 12 Steps the message is consistent meaning attendance find a a sponsor a spiritual uh adviser with experience with the steps actually go through those steps actually go through those steps always asking God for the power and direction to help help get through that and then carry that message to the still sick and the still suffering to shift your I talked about this earlier as an alcoholic when we end up in places like this we have a foundation our life is built on a foundation of selfishness and self centeredness that’s the foundation of our life that’s the perspective that we come from we need to shift from that perspective to a perspective of love and service that’s that’s the Continuum of recovery so in an attitude of love and service what we do is we carry the message to the still sick and still suffering it says in our book nothing will nothing will ensure immunity from alcohol like intensive work with other alcoholics intensive work with other alcoholics is not being the cookie guy at your group okay that’s a service commitment I’m not knocking it but if that’s all you’re doing is you’re the cookie guy you’re going to be you’re going to be you’re going to be in it deep pretty soon you need to you need to get about the business of carrying the message of recovery listen addictive illness kills a lot of people a 100,000 people a year die of alcoholism 100,000 PE people a year in America die of alcoholism they don’t need to there there’s even more people dying in AA and dying in na because they’re not addressing the recovery process they’re merely hanging on to an almost unbearable sobriety okay you’re looking for people to work with look look for it there um most of the people I end up working with are people who not drinking and going to meetings is not really working for them you know they’ve still got an incredible slew of problems in their life uh most of them continue to relapse uh like clockwork those are usually the people that I personally work with and I get them over to my house we sit down we open this book and I start to explain how I had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps and how I will be happy to help them do the same thing I don’t know another way and I’m not going to hit him with a bunch of happy slogans uh because uh my my experience is is basically that um most of the people I work with are real alcoholics and to slogan them to death and to just not get involved in the recovery process you know I might as well be guilty of involuntary manslaughter you know with holding information from people now it doesn’t always make me the most popular person at the AA meetings um when I started really going into this I knew I was going to lose 90% of my friends and I did because I because I was in I was in oral tradition Fellowship AA lost 90% of my friends but the friends that I’ve uh I’ve developed over the years are much better than the ones that I lost uh you know my life is is incredible because I paid attention to this stuff now practicing these principles in all of our Affairs that’s that’s difficult at times we need to ask God for help with that we need to continually go back and do what Bill Wilson said was an annual or a semiannual house cleaning what I believe a house cleaning is it’s it’s the steps we need to continually go through these there’s people who are going to tell you all you need to do kid is stay in 10 11 and 12 you do the four-step once well there are probably people who’ve done such a great job on 10 11 and 12 that they’ve not continued to make any mistakes in their life okay maybe but the fact of the matter is is every single time I’ve gone through the steps again it’s like peeling another layer of the onion back I am now I’m now even clearer in my perspective I’m even clearer in my self- appraisal than I was prior to so every single time I go through uh it gives me one more shot in the arm and my quality of life increases my ability to be effective increases and you know what very very few people who have done multiple fist steps the way I’ve done them are going to argue with me that they only should have done it once you know what I mean so this is a lifetime process alcoholism is medically described as a chronic relapsing condition that’s what the doctors call this it’s a chronic relapsing condition you know what you don’t have to relapse though but we are in the minority we are in the minority so the doctors continue to call it a chronic relapsing disease you don’t have to relapse you’re lucky to have the disease of alcoholism because if you rightly relate yourself to God and your fellow man you continue to participate in these spiritual practices you then shift your attention to work and self-sacrifice for others you are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness a new attitude and outlook on life there is no no doubt in my mind it has been an absolute pleasure uh to sit in front of you all and talk a little bit about uh my experience strength and hope uh mark thank you so much for inviting me down here it’s been a great experience thank you thank you for listening to sober Sunrise if you enjoyed today’s episode please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message until next time have a great day