>> Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. >> >> We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise.

We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> >> My name My name's Mike, and I'm an alcoholic. Uh my dry date is September 7th, 1985, and uh my home group's the Dignitary Sympathy Group in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Uh we meet on uh Tuesday nights, and uh we'd be pleased to see if any of you come through town. Uh we used to be uh since our inception for about 18 years, we were a men's group. And uh through some exploration in group inventory over a period of 4 or 5 years, we're now uh open to all who suffer from alcoholism, and uh it's uh the girls now get to come up in the treehouse, and uh play with the guys, and uh you know, we we found an amazing thing that we didn't uh that we didn't dilute the quality of our meeting at all.

As a matter of fact, we may have raised it a couple of notches. Uh That was That was a gift, incidentally, from uh a friend of you mine, and I'm sure yours, too, Don uh from Aurora. Uh Don said, "You know, if you don't have any girls there, what you've got is you got guys that don't know anything about women teaching other guys about women." And uh Uh what uh what I thought I'd do with your your permission here to start is that uh now that I've introduced myself, uh we'll uh have a little uh few minutes of meditation, and then uh do a prayer, and and we'll get started uh getting to know each other and forming the group here.

So, if you want to get comfortable and kind of relax into the stillness a little bit, uh but just have a find it that for some of the people that uh haven't had a lot of experience with meditation, that we'll we'll start with a little little piece of music here that kind of helps us maybe relax into that stillness. This piece is a a piece uh called uh The Prayer of St. Gregory, and uh it's just kind of a favorite of mine, so uh with your permission we'll start.

You know, I'm I'm just kind of the sideshow here this weekend. Uh I'm uh I'm here so I'm here so you'll get together. Uh And uh I suspect, looking at this setting, that you'd be delighted to come here anyway.

Uh cuz it's such a beautiful place. Uh But we're going to hopefully spend a weekend getting to know ourselves and each other better, and by doing that, uh we'll end up knowing God better. And uh I think it's a wonderful way for us to spend a weekend.

I uh wrote a little prayer for this weekend, and I'd like to share that with you. Loving spirit, we ask your blessing for all who have gathered in this sacred place of retreat. Let us be conscious of your presence as we form this group.

We ask that you remove our fear, especially of each other, and bring our hearts and minds into unity. Unity with each other, that we may learn to grow in harmony. Unity with you, that we would we may do your will always.

Loving Father, please guide our dialogue with each other, that your will be for us may be revealed. Open our minds and hearts, that we can set aside our old ideas. Let us be constantly reminded that you desire our happiness above all things.

Amen. What uh In order that I can begin to get to know you better, I There are a few old friends here uh that I'm so delighted to see again, but many of you I haven't met before. So, what I'm going to suggest is we'll start around the room, and you can uh tell us who you are, what you are, maybe your dry date if you like, and uh uh if you have any special intention or anything special that you're looking for this weekend.

Uh Now, you can look around and do a head count here and see if we all take a couple minutes to do that, that that will burn the entire night. Uh I I learned long ago that it's absolutely useless for me to try and control a crowd of alcoholics, but I'll make a suggestion that we may want to be somewhat brief about that. So, uh with uh with that in mind, uh why don't we start over here with Turk?

My name is Turk. My dry date is uh Uh Well, welcome, and uh you know, I specially Could we have a show of hands of the people that are at their very first retreat ever? And uh Look around.

Wow. I want I want to honor and congratulate you. What it was like when I did my first retreat, I was about six went to my first retreat, I was about 6 months sober, uh and like many of you, it was the uh at the strong suggestion of a sponsor.

And uh I was so afraid of what I imagined that retreat was going to be, cuz it was in a monastery, and uh I'd been you know, avoiding God for a long time, uh because I was sure that he was armed and dangerous and looking for me. And uh I uh They found me at the beginning of just as that retreat was about ready to begin. I was sure that they were going to confiscate I was a three-pack-a-day smoker then, and and uh carried my own thermos of coffee to make sure I had enough.

And uh they found me by the front gate of that retreat smoking cigarettes two at a time, and uh it in afraid to go in. And uh one of the old-timers came and took me by the hand and and and walked me into that place, and uh uh that was one of the doors open to uh that opened to the wonderful life I have today. So, I uh I honor people that have the courage to come for the first time.

And I want to uh also honor the the people that uh the old-timers that have got here that that continue to come back and have the humility to continue to want to grow and learn and expand in in their relationship with God and and give back to this fellowship. Uh I think one of the saddest things I see from time to time in uh going around different places is is the people that have essentially packed it up and said, "Well, you know, I've done my share. It's now somebody else's turn." And uh you know, those people over time I don't seem to do very well.

And it it's a very sad thing uh to see. And uh we've uh It's also a glorious thing to see uh see some of them waking up and and come back and and and bloom again, too, in this fellowship. So, glad to see everybody here.

Uh I suspect we've got some smokers in here. Am I right? Yeah.

Okay. Uh I'm going to talk for just a little bit longer, and then we'll we'll take a break and uh so uh the smokers don't go crazy, and we can visit the restroom and so forth. What uh what do you like for breaks?

10 minutes, 15 minutes? What's what's the group conscience on that? >> 3 years?

Okay. Okay. 10 minutes?

Okay. All right. Well, when we take when we take a break, uh we can make it a 10-minute break.

We'll see what it really is. That's what That's when you gather again, that's the real group conscience, you know. Uh But I'll be in the chair 10 minutes after we uh we take that break.

Uh I uh I had my first drink when I was 12 years old, and uh it was magic for me. What uh What happened is described to me is described on page 27 of our basic text here. And uh in that paragraph there, Carl Jung is talking to a guy by the name of Roland Hazard, which I think is just marvelous name for an alcoholic, you know.

Uh But >> >> Rol- Rol- Rol- I was kind of more like a rolling hazard. Uh Roland was uh a rich alcoholic, of the most dangerous kind. And uh He was his family was able to send him to Europe to be with the the finest psychiatrist available at the time, which uh at that time was Carl Jung.

Uh He was probably neck and neck with Freud at that point in time, and uh Uh they spent time together. Uh he spent uh in 6 months, more or less, living at at Carl Jung's compound and letting Carl work on him. Uh and at that end of that time, you're sure Roland was sure that his drink problem had been solved.

And so, he was going to go back to the States. Now, in those days, you didn't take the Concord or a 747 back to states, you went to the one of the ports and you embarked on a on a liner and came back. And he was sitting around in Paris waiting to catch his ship when somebody asked him the wrong question.

And the wrong question for him was, "Would you like some wine with your meal, sir?" And before he knew what had happened, 6 months of not drinking and 6 months of everything that Carl Jung was able to teach him just went up in smoke. He had a strange metal blank spot. And so he made his way back to Carl and you know I don't know if he's I suspect being an alcoholic he wanted his money back, but I don't you know >> >> I That part isn't recorded, but uh he essentially asked Carl, "What in the heck happened to me?

You know, what in the world I was I was sure that you know, what you taught me and everything else I I was never going to drink again." And Carl essentially says, "Well, you're doomed. You know, there you apparently are certain a certain type of alcoholic. And no treatment we have as far as we know is able able to change that." And not liking that diagnosis like any of us Roland says, "Well, isn't there anything that can be done?" And he says, "Well, yes, once in a while here and there men have had spiritual awakenings or spiritual experiences, great emotional rearrangements and displacements and uh they seem to not drink again.

And the way he described a spiritual awakening was he said, "Ideas and emotions that were the guiding force in the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side and a new set of conceptions take hold." Now, that's exactly what happened to the 12-year-old. I was a 12-year-old that needed a drink. And when I took that drink ideas, emotions, and everything that had governed my life up to that point in time got set off to the side.

I was I was little Mr. Goody Two-Shoes. I was the kid you probably wanted to slap.

I worked in the principal's office. I was a little honor student. I was the I was the teacher's pet.

I was you know a little boy scout all that kind of stuff. And I didn't do those things by the way because I was really truly a good kid. I did those things to get approval because what I needed was approval.

I needed praise particularly from adults and approval. And I had that spiritual awakening and I didn't need any of that crap anymore. I was within a couple of weeks all of that stuff was going on.

Now, I wasn't didn't become a continuous drinker at 12 years old. But what I did is I found found something that worked. And it wasn't till much later when a man was helping me in this program he pointed that out to me and showed me what had happened to me.

That I But what I what I who I'd always been, what I'd always been was somebody who had desperately I'd been a child who desperately needed a spiritual awakening and I didn't know how to have one on my own. And so I I stole one out of a bottle. And because it was stolen I couldn't keep it.

It was synthetic. But the rest of my life was a search for that awakening. Now, I had no clue that was cuz if you'd asked me when I came around here like I always kind of chuckle when I hear people talking about searching for their spirituality.

My understanding is we all have spirituality. Spirituality is like health. You can have good health or bad health, but we all have health.

And I'm innately a spiritual being. What I didn't have was I didn't have any consciousness of that. I didn't have an awareness of that that was useful to me.

And so I lived in a state of fear. And everything I did in my life was one way or another taken in that direction to to to have that awakening. Uh I uh I didn't have any consequences from drinking when I was 12 years old.

And I won't take you through a long drunk-a-log here. Some of it will probably come up over the weekend as as we talk about various things. But uh to give you a couple snapshots of what life was like.

I I'm maybe 15 years old and I grew up in a little town, a college town, maybe a great deal like Eugene here. I was a a Big Ten college town in Iowa City, Iowa is where I grew up. And uh in the '50s when I grew up it was kind of an Ozzie and Harriet kind of place.

People left their keys in the car, didn't lock their houses usually. Everybody kind of knew the neighbors. On >> >> on Friday nights we had this kind of big loop or block we lived on and uh all the all the fathers had had put a bunch of grills together in the center of the backyards there and we'd we'd have fish fries on on on the weekends and all the every family bring something different and so I was I was used to pitching in an early age.

And so that was the kind of uh background I had. I need to tell you by the way I uh partially as a matter of amends I I come from I used to say a normal family. I'll tell you it's a functional family.

I don't know I'm sure not sure what a normal family would be. Uh I I'm the oldest of four kids. Uh I uh I just buried my mother 2 weeks ago today.

Uh And my uh I so was so desperate to belong when I got here that I I invented an entire dysfunctional family because I thought I needed a dysfunctional family in order to fit in. Uh And by saying that I'm I'm not dissing anybody who had that experience because I've got dear friends that had horrific childhood. But I lied about mine.

You know. Uh Now, the family wasn't perfect, but what the family did is when there was a problem the family faced the problem. And frequently I was the problem.

Uh So I'm back to telling the truth about those family members now, but uh it's a it's a I'm like I said I'm the oldest and it's it's maybe a Wednesday night during the school week and I'm I'm coming in about midnight 1:00 and the door is not locked, but I'm a little clumsy getting in cuz I I've I've been out drinking some. Uh And I make some noise and my mother wakes up and she says, "Mike, is that you?" And I swear at her. Yeah.

F off. Leave me alone, you know. That was a serious mistake.

Uh My father got through college on a scholarship playing tackle for Drake University. If if that gives you the kind of the picture here. And I'm 15 and I'm drunk.

And so my dad would get up and my dad even though he was a very big man was a very gentle man. Uh wouldn't would never never lay a hand on me, but he would not allow me to abuse my mother. So he'd say, "Son, you're you're not going to talk to your mother like that." Now, being drunk I would do the next insane thing.

I'd wind up and take a swing at him. Now, thank God I'm big enough that I can cause him a little trouble, but he he'd have mercy on me and rather than instead of just knocking my head off he'd restrain me. But I'm a big enough kid that I can cause him a little trouble.

So we're wrestling around on the kitchen floor and I'm maybe trying to slam his head in a cupboard. And now the other three younger kids are up and they're upset and they're crying cuz they're afraid that their daddy and their big brother going to hurt each other. Uh That doesn't sound like any description of social drinking that I'm familiar with.

See, I got here with the illusion that I I'd had a normal drinking life up to a given point and that it somewhere it just went off the rails. You know, when I would uh But I get to see what the truth of my experience is. Take a year or two down the road I'm 16, 17 and I'm driving now.

That's why I put it in that time frame and I uh We're sitting around the kitchen table. And in the middle of the table is my sister's hope chest, one of these little wooden boxes the gals had in those days. And the reason it's there is she kept her babysitting money in that hope chest and it's gone and so we're having a family meeting to figure out what happened to Carol's money.

And uh I did what you're doing it, too. They all seem to be looking at me. And I looked them right in the eye and you know, what in the hell are you looking at me that way for?

I don't know what happened to her money. And of course I did. Her big brother took the money that she was saving for a special dress.

And I went out and I bought a keg for my friends out at the lake that weekend and had a big party. Uh so I could be the be the center of attention, the guy that brought the keg. And so here I am, you know, I I'm in this illusion that I'm a normal social drinker, but the truth is that almost out of the gate, I'm bringing violence into my home and I'm stealing to support my habit.

Uh this is not the picture of normal drinking that I had. I uh That's I need to talk a minute about what alcohol did for me. I was I was a frightened kid, like I said.

Uh now, the way I I understand it today is I didn't walk around saying I was frightened. What I walked around is I was a bully. I was a walk around and I was I was angry.

I I'd walk around, I'd get in your face. Uh and all that stuff. And uh I didn't understand that that was uh that was my way to control my fear.

Was to to push back at the world. And uh the alcohol did something for me. It It It opened me up, it loosened me up, it it gave me what a scared kid out of a little town in Iowa, I could uh uh I could go off and I could uh I could go to go to the army, go to Vietnam.

Uh I could uh That always puzzled me, by the way. Uh I ended up uh the most highly decorated soldier of that period out of my part of my little part of the country there. Eastern Iowa.

And had my picture in the paper and uh like the good part of that was that, you know, my folks got to see my name in the paper for something other than, you know, uh getting picked up on Saturday night. Uh But uh I couldn't ever reconcile the fact that I had stuff signed by the Secretary of Defense and the President that said I was gallant in action and all this other stuff and I couldn't understand reconcile that with the the fear I I felt. Uh and so I I even felt like a a phony there.

Uh that uh I mean, I needed I needed part of me needed the recognition and part of me uh despised myself for acknowledging it cuz I knew I was scared to death, you know. Uh And our friend Don helped me walk me into that uh years ago. Uh He said, you know, I said, "Don, how how is it that I could be so frightened and uh uh I'm doing things like running at machine guns and doing this stuff, you know?" Uh And he said, "Oh." He says, "You just did that out of fear." He said, "You were more afraid of being a coward than you were uh the consequences of your behavior." And uh so I I get to see that again that I was the guy who needed a a drink more than drink more than ever.

Uh and when I came back from that uh because of my experience uh that uh I could get a break, you know, I could I could walk in and if I did something or if I got too drunk or if I bent a car or something, you know, I could get the local police chief to say, "Well, you know, I guess if I'd been where you are you'd been and did what you did, I I might might need to let off a little steam, too." Uh And so I I'm I'm out trading on that stuff now and and living living a dishonest life. Uh that also The alcohol also was fueled that it got the little scared kid out of Iowa uh to go to go into business and end up in Chicago and New York and Atlanta and and and some places that I guarantee I would have never had the guts to go if I if I couldn't couldn't have a drink in my hand. If I had a drink in my hand, I could say yes to life.

And for a period of time I didn't seem to it didn't seem to go way off the rails. If to the extent that there were bad instances, uh they were uh they were they were minor. I wasn't paying a price for them.

Uh and that slid down. Which uh we've been here a little over an hour, why don't we take that 10-minute break now and and uh come on back and we'll keep going here. that I've ever I don't know I've ever that I've ever seen a group gather this regather this fast without without a cowbell or something going on here that uh You're a the the spirit must be among us here tonight, something.

Uh Well, I told you a little bit about how my drinking started out. Uh I don't want to We all know what goes on. Let me let me tell you about the end of my drinking here and just kind of cut to the chase.

Uh The end of my drinking uh I Well, I used to say that I was living with a woman. The truth was I was living off a woman. Uh Uh And I'd become what I had not been raised to be.

I was uh I was I was using. Uh And uh I was pretty much unemployable at this time. The careers gone.

The houses are gone, the cars are well, I've got a I've got a shelled-out 280Z that that when I when I used to go to the club, people used to kid me about that I'd apparently taken that car in a daylight raid over Germany cuz there are great big holes through all the body panels. Uh like I'd been hit by flak. And And my days started that I'd get up whenever I could get up and I'd go out to the kitchen in this apartment and I'd make a drink.

Uh And I'd take the drink into the bathroom. And I'd sit on the edge of the tub and try and get that first drink to stay down. Cuz I wasn't going to be able to do anything until the first drink stayed down.

Uh and some days it did and some days it didn't. Uh And if I if I was going to write a bad check that day, I I filled out as much of it as I could right there at home cuz it was humiliating to stand in a store in front of a clerk and have my hands just dance across the the check. And uh I was a functional alcoholic cuz she had a job.

And uh And we And we were living with the fiction that, you know, one day I was going to be employable again and things were going to change and I was going to be back in the big time and uh but I knew in my heart that wasn't going to happen. I uh I didn't find out until later that I was on an allowance then. And uh the way my allowance worked was that when she came home from work, she decided how much money she was going to let me steal from her that night.

And that's how much money she'd leave in her purse. And she she put the put the rest of it under the tire cover and then in the trunk of the car before she came in the apartment, you know. Uh And you know, the only way you can do that is one day at a time.

So I I knew I knew about one day at a time living before I got here. Uh I can't tell you what happened, but one morning I found myself crawling around the floor of that bathroom. Uh And I decided to try one more time to get sober.

Now, I I'd been coming to various places including AA for the past 6 years and and uh my best friends and drinking buddies were were either the ones that were still alive and had survived the car wrecks and the overdoses and all that stuff, uh they'd gotten sober. Uh Uh one of those guys going to be celebrating 30 years this July 4th. Uh and but I'd gone to the same same treatment centers and tried to see the same people and and uh I went there and I was sincere, but it just didn't seem to work for me.

Uh I mean, I was the kind of guy that I walked around treatment with a legal pad taking notes. You know. Uh As a matter of fact, that may have been part of the problem there.

What if I one of the counselors that had my number grabbed me and he says, "You know, Mike, this may come as a shock to you, but you're not a member of the staff, you know. We're You're not here as a consultant." Cuz I was taking the need to do this, need to uh I uh but I could parrot all this stuff. And I I thought I'd had the best that recovery had to offer here.

Uh But of course I was wrong. And uh I can't tell you because I was I was I completely hopeless because I thought that I'd tried everything and nothing worked and I don't know why I tried to get sober one more time, but uh some wind of grace blew through that bathroom and uh I told the that gal that I was I needed to try and get sober again. Uh and I'm living in Indianapolis, but I'm confused.

There's There's VA centers there and there's VA centers in Illinois and everything else, but the only VA center I could remember was in the middle of my old home state, Iowa. Uh place called Knoxville. Uh so, I told her I was going to try and get sober again and she filled up my tank with gas, gave me 20 20 bucks and a pint of light Bacardi rum and I set off to find sobriety.

And I uh This was This was a Labor Day weekend and our Labor Day weekends in the Midwest are sometimes very, very hot and this was 100 plus plus the heat index. I don't know what it was, but it was It was one of the roasting times and and I, of course, I'm a drunk. I'm in bad shape and the air conditioning doesn't work in that car.

Uh but, I got in the car and the uh the the rum was a mercy because she knew I didn't like rum all that much, so I'd probably sip it slow, but I was more dangerous driving completely sober in those days than I was if I had a little something in me. I I mean, I just made quick moves across three and four lanes with just a a twitch and uh I went as got in that car in that heat and I went as far as I could go and as far as I could go uh left me about 100 miles short of that treatment facility. Uh Now, the other places I went to I had insurance fine insurance and I had some money to spend and everything else and I'm out of resources now.

I'm I'm down to what the VA will do for me. And uh I can't make the last 100 miles and where I pull off Interstate 80 and it's right near my old hometown. And Iowa City and my uh my dad's dead by this time.

Uh but, my mother and two two of my brothers still live there. Uh But, I I know today that they would have welcomed me and helped me. Uh but, maybe one of the things that broke with me was that I just lost the the ability to go hurt them one more time.

Uh Cuz some of the the stuff I did wasn't that was really harmful wasn't so much the stuff that the war stories that I told. What I did is I took the people that loved me the most and time after time I gave them hope and then I crushed their hearts. This time my son's getting better.

This time our brother's going to make it. Let's all Let's all get together and we'll help Mike. We'll support Mike.

We'll do whatever we need to for Mike, you know. Uh and I knew bottom for me was knowing that no matter how much I loved you and no matter how much I wanted to not drink I'm if you're near me and you love me, you're going to get hurt. And so, the only thing I can do is stay away from you.

>> >> Uh So, where I ended up was on the front porch of the parents of my best friend and drinking buddy from high school. Uh Jerry gotten sober and moved away some years ago, but uh his dad, Buck and and his wife, Nettie were still living there in the house and Buck was my one of my old drinking buddies. Uh even though he'd been my friend's dad, Buck was an old paratrooper uh from World War II and when I was in the service uh toward the end of every month I'd get a letter from Buck with a $20 bill in it.

And Buck would say, you know, the note would go something like this, "I know damn well you're broke by now and you probably need a drink. You know, uh go have a good time and 10 cent can PX beer, you know, I could with 20 bucks I could I could get going on that stuff." And Buck and his wife had done a terrible thing. They about 8 years before that they'd gotten sober.

And they uh And and I lost my drinking buddy and I didn't like it and they were they were doing crazy stuff like talking about God and praying and and even going to church. Uh and I got to tell you that I didn't didn't accept that gracefully. Uh I bad-mouthed them to any bunch of their face and to anybody who'd listen and I think church puppies was probably the nicest thing I called them along the way.

You know, "How can an old man guy from the parachute regiment turn into a you know, uh and here I am knocking on the front door and I'm dying and I can't make the last 100 miles. Uh And they came to the door and they looked at me and then looked at each other and they just both put their arms around me and just drew me into that living room and without saying another word they both had their arms around me they said a prayer for me to get better. And I stood still for the prayer.

Uh And then Buck, being a practical man, gave me a drink and put me to bed. Uh And I got up the next day and they took me the last 100 miles. And Buck and I had a chance He left He left us a couple years ago, but we had a lot of years to talk about what happened there and we we But, all we remembered about that trip that I I was sitting in the back seat and I I'd reach up over that seat and I'd grab Buck by the shoulder and and I'd be crying and I'd say, "Buck, Buck, please tell me please tell me how do I get this God stuff?

How do I get this God stuff?" Cuz it's It seemed to work for everybody else and I I didn't doubt it. It was such a mystery, but I didn't believe it could happen for me. I knew it was real cuz I saw it happen to other people.

But, I didn't believe that I could have a personal relationship with a power greater than myself that was going to do anything. And if Buck answered, I don't remember what it was and neither could he. Uh And so, when I got to that treatment center uh I uh Well, a couple good things happened to me.

The first thing was that you know, I God knew, I guess, what I needed and what I needed right then is they they did a medical evaluation and they they said, "You're too sick to go to treatment. Uh we got to put you in the intensive care unit here in the hospital for a little while. Uh and then if you make it, we'll see about treatment." And one of one of the my spiritual awakenings is when this orderly came around and you know, one of the great things about intensive care is they leave you alone.

There isn't anybody else there. They come in and check vitals and do stuff like that. But, you know, there was nobody to lie to.

You know, if you'd put me in I'm I'm in this institutionalizing well now. If you put me in a treatment unit right then, I'm I know what to do. I know how to get along.

Uh I'm treatment slick, you know. I'm I'm going to be I'm going to be working my will inside that treatment center in a matter of days if I if I have my deal. But, I didn't.

I'm in intensive care. There's nobody to lie to and this orderly and he should have looked like he was carrying a scythe over his shoulder like death itself comes comes in and and he just says, "I I need this form I need you to sign this form and tell me where you we you want your belongings sent for your the next of kin." You mean you're not going to talk about my treatment program and what are you Uh And I woke up >> >> a little bit. Uh And once they unhooked me from everything there and got me in a regular I did a couple things that I'd never done before.

I made two decisions I believe that saved my life. One was that I was going to even though I didn't know how I was going to start trying to have this relationship with God. Uh And I began praying.

Uh Even though I didn't know much. I mean, I'm I'm starting out from a now I lay me down to sleep place on this. Uh Jesus loves me, all this kind of stuff.

I And the next the other thing was that I if I get out of here, I'm going to become a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Up until then I I'd been to plenty of meetings, but I was just a guy that was taking up space and keeping the chair warm. Uh I wasn't really a member an active member of this program.

A miracle happened in there, by the way. I uh Well, a lot of them, but you know, found out that they hadn't changed anything in this treatment program from all the other ones. I can't you know, the 12 steps were still the same and the book was still blue and all that kind of stuff.

Uh but, I'd gotten changed. And after I'd been there maybe 3 weeks they had an election for uh uh officers in this the the patients running the treatment center the treatment unit there class and I was nominated to be class president. And they walked out of the room and they had a vote and it came back in uh >> >> and thank God I lost.

You know, if I'd won, you probably have a different guy sitting here tonight cuz my ego would have reinflated uh to the standpoint that they could have taken me out of here, but even I couldn't miss the message that I'd just come in in the second place in the nut house. Uh I uh You know, I told you I got a functional family. I I got a My baby brother would ride his motorcycle 100 miles each way to come have lunch with me when he could.

Uh That's a functional family. Uh They uh They all love me and supported me. When I I couldn't get back to Indianapolis right away when I got out of that place and so where I got to go like I've all good alcoholics I got back to go back home to mommy.

And here I here I am in my old bedroom. Well, my youngest brother doesn't have our disease, but he'd already started and was starting the business that he's still in today uh as a distributor of fine wines. And so my uh my old bedroom was his first warehouse.

So I'm my first night out of treatment I'm I'm here's my here's my old bed and surrounded on three sides to the ceiling are cases of wine. Uh You know, I I I share this with all the folks that think you need special conditions, you know. Uh I I was surrendered.

I was done. You know, it could have been anything in those. There there was those box boxes didn't have any anything that I wanted in them anymore.

Uh So anyway, I I got back to Indianapolis and I uh eventually and I uh proceeded on my course to become a junior guru in AA. And I went to uh 11 meetings a week for several years. I still go to five meetings a week.

I I I enjoy meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. Uh But I'm somebody that that will take any solution and turn it into a problem, you know. So I'm Uh I uh You know, I essentially I I got I got active.

I started a meeting. I all kinds of things. Uh every service gig I could get my hands on.

And what I did essentially over my first four and a half years in Alcoholics Anonymous, call it five, uh realized was exactly what I did years before when I'd gone to the University of Iowa. When I went to the University of Iowa, I went over to the field house and I registered for classes uh and I went downtown and I went to the student bookstore and I bought all my books. I I joined a fraternity, threw the books in the closet, and started partying.

And if you ran into me on campus and asked me what I was doing, I was oh, I'm a pre-law student here at the University of Iowa. Well, you know, that was technically true. But the fact was I almost never went to class.

And that's when I I never missed I never missed a meeting. I never missed a dance. I never missed a committee function.

I never But I was almost completely unscarred by the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous here. Uh And you know, meetings do work. If you go to a meeting, you will feel better.

Uh But what it was happening to me, it's like I'm I'm like a guy with a a bad wisdom tooth and I go to the dentist and he looks at the tooth and he says, "Oh, Mike, I think we're going to have to take that tooth out." I don't know. Don't Don't do that. Give me some Novocaine.

Uh And uh I come back a little later. Oh, that tooth my face it all puffed up. Oh, no, give me some Novocaine, you know.

And I will I will get some relief. I will feel better for time. But all the while the condition is getting worse.

I'm sitting here. I'm finally come to a point all as I'm approaching my fifth anniversary in AA. I mean, it's an unimaginable period of sober time for me.

I couldn't conceive after what I'd been through that it would be possible for me to stay sober even a year, let alone five. And here I am. And I was I was more desperate than I was I was more discouraged than I'd ever been in my life because you see I didn't know what was going on, but here I was further from a drink than I ever expected to be and I'm dying of untreated alcoholism right in the middle of five, six, seven, eight, 10 meetings a week.

I'm dying of alcoholism. How can this be? Uh Well, I haven't experienced the recovery program of Alcoholics Alcoholics Anonymous is how that could be.

And God's got a delicious sense of humor that uh I uh I got my life saved by the guy I disliked most in Alcoholics Anonymous. Uh The man I disliked most in the Alcoholics Anonymous, a couple of guys here know him, is a man by the name of Gary B. Uh And uh Gary Well, Gary's 41 years sober now.

I uh I The first time I saw Gary, I was a couple months sober and he was 45 years old and getting a 21-year token. And all the girls in the meeting went, "Oh God, it's him. Isn't he gorgeous?

He's so tall and slender and oh, he looks so good." Yeah, yeah. And even my married girlfriend thought he was cute. And he's >> >> probably need to cover that now here.

One of the one of the things I'd managed to do around here and because I'm a junior guru is I I managed I managed to convince myself that this married girlfriend was God's will. Uh I I end up I'm sponsoring her 16-year-old son. And I play you you cur on the weekends with her husband and he's a gun-toting federal agent.

This got me This got me fired by my second sponsor who may may have saved my life by firing me there. He grabbed me in the parking lot of the club one day and he says, "Mike, he says, you know, I keep confronting you about your behavior with this gal." And he says, "Every time I do, you explain it to me in such a way I think start to think that this is God's will and I know that's crazy and so I can't be around you anymore. You're fired." And I'm required to mention that because the fact is that I know now from experience, I didn't know it then, that I'm by far from the only person that makes has made that kind of mistake around here.

And that you don't have to get drunk because you made that kind of mistake. My experience is I had to change my behavior. But just because I made a serious error in judgment like that, I don't have to get drunk.

I don't have to throw it all away. Uh So I I saw Gary several times thereafter and and I generally avoided him as much as possible and I would have avoided him on this occasion. It's uh we had a It's not in existence anymore, but we used to have a Sunday morning meeting at one of the hotels that was kind of a on the north side and it was white tablecloths and uh fine china and coffee.

And they If you can believe it, this they even charged drunks a dollar for a cup of coffee uh at the at this things and had people pouring. And I had my little junior guru at the front of the table at the front of this deal. Uh and I was sitting up there with my people and I found out too late that Gary was going to be the speaker at this thing.

Uh Now, if there God will get work with whatever I give him and my ego is such that my I'm I believe that if I get up and walk out of this meeting, which is what I really wanted to do, that everybody would notice and wonder what was wrong with me. So I sat there pinned down by my own ego and I listened to to the guy I disliked most in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I And he lied for well over an hour.

I mean, he he talked about being 20 years sober and selling his house and cashing his retirement plan in order to make amends. And I knew that was a lie. Uh And he told other lies, too.

Uh And he happened to mention where his home group was and his home group was way the other side of town from where I lived. 30 miles each way. Uh And so I my mind decided I'm going What I'm going to do is I'm going to track this guy down to his home group, get the goods on him, and prove he's a liar and a phony and expose him.

So this is my motive that I'm start driving to to his home group and of course God's got a sense of humor and Gary's the first one that greets me at the door. You know, hi gosh, we you know, been hoping you'd show up down here one of these days. And I thought, well, they've heard about me.

Well, I I found out they had, but they had not for the reason I thought. There's the guy that's dating the federal agent's wife, yeah. Uh And then then being a good experienced member of Alcoholics Anonymous, when that meeting was over, you know, I thought, well, I didn't get the I didn't I won't come back here again.

And I'm walking out the door and Gary says, "Hey, I'm supposed to chair next week, but you know, I have some business going on. I may not be able to be here. Could you fill in for me?" Well, now they need me to chair their meeting for him, so I got to come back.

Uh and it started uh that way. So, I kept coming back and eventually I was invited to join a group of men that were going to uh take the book Alcoholics Anonymous and start at the title page and go through the book and and uh read the black print on the white page and and follow the instructions. And uh few days before we were supposed to start that uh my conscience started bothering me.

And at that time Gary had an office just we were in both in an office park and he was kind of in the building across the lake from me and so I called Gary up. I says, "You don't uh happen to be able to have lunch, do you?" And he said, "Well, as a matter of fact, I had a cancellation. I can have lunch." So, okay.

I got I meet him for lunch and I sit down and I said, "Gary, I from everything I've heard you guys talk about these these workshops are extremely intimate settings and and intimate experiences and uh uh there's just a tremendous amount of honesty and sharing there and I said, "Before I start with this with you, I said, you need to know I don't like you at all." Uh and he laughed and uh he said, "Well, I reckon we can deal with that, cowboy." Uh and he went on to tell me that the guy he did his first fifth step with uh back in the '60s was a guy named Ernie. Uh and that that was the time of love and and and peace and everything else and uh the young people back then would when they were in meetings would greet each other with peace symbol across the room. He says, "The only problem was Ernie was missing one finger when he waved at me." Uh >> >> So, I went through that and I I further from a drink than I ever expected to be.

I I finally had the experience uh I was touched through my own experience with by the recovery program of Alcoholics Anonymous. Uh and the the miracle almost happened. See, cuz I was almost you know, I was I wasn't going to drink again, folks.

I was I was looking for a bridge to run into. See, because I was more hopeless at 5 years than I was when I was in that detox center. Because at least when that I was in that detox center, I thought maybe Alcoholics Anonymous maybe somehow it could work for me.

But here I was, I hadn't had a drink for 5 years, but I'm going crazy. And apparently I believed it, I loved it. I went to the meeting.

It works for you, but somehow it's not touching me. And that's why they say don't don't leave before your miracle happens. I didn't have I didn't have an I I was under the illusion since I'd been to all these meetings and done all this stuff that I was somehow you know, I I'd experienced what Alcoholics Anonymous had to offer.

Uh And it wasn't so at all. I uh My life's been wonderful since then. Uh I've I've had some days I wouldn't uh wouldn't like to experience again along the way, but you know, the fact is that uh I've been given everything I needed to meet those situations.

Not long after that first time through the steps uh well, one of the thing one of the mistakes I made I I was I was I was married to gal I loved very much and she was a member of Alcoholics is a member of Alcoholics Anonymous sober year longer than I am as a matter of fact. And being who I am after I had that workshop experience, I came home to our house and told her that I was going to conduct step study school in that house for her. Uh Do not try this at home.

Uh You know, I uh I started hearing things like you know, I I watch at meetings, you know, and everything else. Do you suppose our home could be one of the places you practice these principles you've learned? Ooh.

Yeah. Uh I listen to you talk into those guys you sponsor and you tell them things about yourself that I've never heard you say. Uh Do you suppose what would it take for me to have a you know, half hour 45 minute intimate conversation with you?

Uh You've never once told me you're afraid of anything. Uh You've never you know, I I didn't have a clue. And so, eventually it it turns out that I find out we're going to have a divorce at my house.

And here I am now I'm six almost seven years sober. And I all of a sudden uh my Oh, I've been making money again by the way. I'm up but my now my luxury car is gone.

Uh my bank account is down to 32 bucks and I'm living in the sleeping bag I've got upstairs there. I'm living in that sleeping bag on the floor of a friend's den. Uh But you know what?

I wouldn't want to do that again, but I was I was free in that sleeping bag. I had a relationship with a power greater than myself. Uh And I didn't like my circumstances one bit and I didn't like the fact that my marriage was coming to an end and I didn't seem to be able to do anything about it.

Uh But the thought of a drink never occurred. Uh I uh I've got guys today that are sober quite a while that uh uh that was in '92. There was guys that are sober quite a while that you know, said, you know, uh you were sponsoring me then, Mike, and and I was sure my sponsor was going to get drunk cuz he he'd lost his stuff and he ended up living in a sleeping bag.

Uh And just watching although I wasn't conscious, I sure wasn't doing it for anybody's benefit, but they say, you know, watching you walk through that period of time uh was really important to me. Uh So, uh we're teachers of a sort whether we know it or not at all sorts of times. I uh I uh Couple years ago uh late 2002 I uh I got a phone call uh from a nurse that says uh uh Uh we want to schedule you for a a CAT scan.

And I said, "Okay, but why am I going to be having a CAT scan?" She says, "Oh, the doctor hasn't talked to you yet." And uh So, the doctor comes on the line. He says, "Well, uh Mike, I'm sorry you found out this way. I Anyway, uh long story short, your your biopsy came back and you've got a very high grade aggressive form of cancer here and and we need to we need to find out uh how much it may have spread and uh what what any treatment options might be." Uh And uh I called our friend Don.

Uh and I I said, "Don, they just told me I had cancer." And Don says, "Well, cowboy." He says, "How does it feel to know that the fact you aren't going to live forever isn't just a theory?" >> >> You've you've given me ha ha you know, and we we we had a laugh and we we could deal with that. Uh you know, wasn't based on denial and and and and rosy scenarios. Uh I obviously survived that, but I got a I got a chance to surrender all over again.

The cancer I had was was was prostate cancer and uh it had spread outside the prostate. Uh And uh didn't know that immediately. Uh and so, I got a chance to make another surrender because I'm I don't know why they seem to schedule surgery at 5:00 in the morning, but uh that's uh maybe cuz I'm just numb then anyway, so uh resistance, but I'm I'm I'm laying on this gurney naked as a jaybird with a sheet over me and uh the resident comes around and goes over what they're going to do with his surge surgery.

And uh okay, he says and you know, he says, "It looks like we're probably may have a fair chance of being able to spare your nerves, so you'll be able to continue to function sexually in the normal fashion. Good? Uh >> >> And uh then another doctor came by and he said uh well, he says, "I'm sure you're aware of the due the progression of this, we're not going to be able to save anything." And I said, "Wait a minute, send the first guy back." And he says, "Well, you got to know understand that I'm his boss." Uh and uh so I'm laying there with a decision to make and it wasn't really a decision at all because I I'd been with you and been held in the power of God's hands and power of God for a long time and you know, I could just say you know, thy will be done.

Do what you do what you will. Uh and uh out of that she I get a beautiful experience because uh although I didn't know it was going to be for a limited time, uh what I what I got is I I got to essentially my uh my sexual powers were temporarily removed. And I got to find out who I was when I couldn't wave the magic wand.

Uh and I don't know about you, but a lot of the guys I talk to, that's a big part of our identity. Uh and who am I without that? Where do I fit into God's plan and scheme of things?

Uh now as it turned out, what God the God did for me there, what he's done for me several other times is I've got a very kind God and uh what he does is because when I'm on the field and busy playing the game, I don't I can't I'm so busy playing the game that I don't see what's going on. So, what this loving God does is every now and then he'll take me out of the game and put me in the press box for a while. So, I can see what's going on.

Uh and so what he did around this was he he took me out of that game and put me in the press box and I got to see who I really was. And and I got to have that relationship with him uh change and deepen. Also got to have a relationship uh with the woman I love on a different basis.

You know uh is she going to stay? Is she going to go? Uh all this kind of stuff.

I got to trust. Uh and uh she said, "You know, when you were laying there in that gurney and you you told that doctor, thy will be done." She said, "I it was one of the more most powerful demonstrations of faith that I've ever seen. I I wasn't doing it on purpose, it just what happened.

But people watches. Uh so I've had a I've had an amazing life uh because I stayed here long enough for the for the for the second miracle to happen and the miracles thereafter. Uh >> >> Why don't we take a another 10-minute break here and we'll come back and we'll do one more session and then wrap it up for tonight.

Okay. It's 9:00 I got 9:00 we'll try 10:00 after 9:00 when turned out you guys put me up here so I'd have my back to the fire and you just kind of turn the temperature up on me here and kind of roast the truth out of me here. That's uh it's it's a glorious thing to watch this group form up, you know, because I know a lot of you know each other, but will this group this way I'll only meet one time.

And uh you know, everybody's relationship is just a little different because of and will be different because what's happened here. And one of the things I observed in watching all of you is there's there there really don't there I'm sure I I hesitate to say this cuz somebody will be in just have to prove that I'm wrong, but I I haven't seen any Lone Rangers operating here. Everybody's at least in twos, you know.

Uh and the real important thing that happens here is what goes on between you, not necessarily what comes out of my mouth. I'm I'm kind of like the organ grinder's monkey here. I'm just here to get the crowd together.

Uh I uh powerless over alcohol that my life has become unmanageable. Uh I uh and it's important for me to have a current first step. Uh I can't stay sober today.

I can't be useful today based on whiskey I drank 20 some years ago. Uh that fades away. That pain goes away.

Uh when you know, the truth is that if I think I'm not powerless today, I'm living in a delusion. And you know, there's a difference. The delusion is what the the untrue thought that comes from the inside.

It's me fooling me. The illusion is like the magician where the where the where it comes from the outside. It's the it's the magician pushing getting me to look one way while he pulls the rabbit out of the hat over here.

And most of the time what I suffer from is delusion. Uh it's self-induced. Lack of ability to see the truth and see the truth of my circumstances.

Uh you know, what we really have to offer here uh we talk about a program and a course of action and everything else and those things are all true to some extent. But what we really have here is a way of life. Uh we don't have a qualification course that if you do these things, you'll now okay, you've satisfied those requirements.

I can go live life the way I want to now. Uh that now that I've dealt with the active alcoholism that I'm not going to that I'm not going to find out on a continuous basis that I'm power powerless and in my life so unmanageable. So, I challenge it's important to go along for me to keep an idea of of where I that I need a current step first step.

I need to know right here where I am with that as of today. Uh Be that as may, let me step back here and and it occurred to me uh one of the places where I really understood powerlessness was here and this is just a piece of conduct inventory and uh this in about my sexual conduct with the with the love of my life. Uh this is the girl I wanted to marry.

This is the girl I wanted to be the mother of my children. This is the girl that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. This is the girl that I gave the ring to.

Uh I loved her with all of my heart. Uh Ellen, where was I selfish? I wanted to enjoy sex with her regardless of the consequences.

Where was I dishonest? I told her not to worry that I'd always be there for her, no matter what. I dishonestly refused to consider my ability to keep that promise.

Where was I inconsiderate? Well, I gave scant considerations to the consequences of my behavior to her, her family, her faith, her reputation and her career. I roused jealousy.

I told her that if she didn't have sex with me that I'd get it elsewhere. That's a charming relationship technique. I paid undue attention to other women in her presence and remarked to her as to how attractive I found them.

This is the best I can do in having a relationship. Uh I roused suspicion. I often spent time alone with other women and she found me at uh at Holly's apartment.

I roused bitterness. When she became pregnant, I told her that I doubted it was my child. I told her mother that I was too young to get married and didn't want to marry her anyway.

When she was in California having our baby, I made drunken calls to her hang and harass her. I abandoned her and our child and because she was in California and I was back home, I blamed her to all the other people for deserting me. Who did I harm?

Well, obviously the baby Ellen her family my family and our friends. Uh what should I have done instead? Uh Don told me that almost anything else would be a good place to start.

Now, this is this is important though because this is where I find out what I'm really writing here is I'm planting the seed to let God take me to a different place if I allow it. God's a gentleman, he won't do it without my permission. Uh I should have treated sex as the sacred gift that it is.

I shouldn't have engaged in behavior that I wasn't willing to be responsible for. I should have honestly faced the consequences of my actions. I should have been honest with myself and others.

My harms were all rooted in dishonesty, particularly about how afraid I was. Self-reliance will always produce fear and pain. And so now I've got a place where I can go to God and say, you know, I'd like to be a man who could treat treat sex as sacred gift in a relationship.

I'd like to be a man who can be responsible in this area of his life. I want to honestly face the consequences of my actions. And so forth.

That That was written long ago and and one of the nice things about that ideal for my future conduct is it gets to change over time as I change. I I suggest >> >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day. >>