>> Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-sunrise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> >> Thank you, Ben.

I'm John, and I'm an alcoholic. And good to be here. I too was in my own reservation last week.

Uh working on the alcohol and drug uh abuse program. And I was thinking how while I was sitting there how my life has changed. And that sometimes, you know, it's like uh it's like a dream.

That uh I guess I'm the last person in the world would have ever believed that uh uh one day I could get up in front of a few hundred people and be grateful about it. Where I got sober in Syracuse, New York uh it was an understanding that if you were sober 3 months uh you were supposed to get up and speak. Well, I said to myself, you would never get me up there.

And I remember when I got sober 3 months, I walked into meeting late. And at this meeting, they used to have big posts and I used to sit in the back. And every meeting I go to, I would go late.

Cuz I I never I've always felt so sensitive that I never talked with English and I had no education. And somehow I developed some kind of imaginary idea that those who get up here had some kind of a special talent in choosing the right words. I guess what happened how it happened my my first speaker in AA was a lady judge.

And here I am, I'm 28 years old. I have been skids for 7 years. And uh I'm now living in a in a mission.

That's how that's where I was when someone came to see me one night. Another bum who got sober in Salvation Army. He walked into a mission one night and he says to me, I am a member of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I said, good for you. I have never met one before. I came here, he said, to ask you if you want to go to a meeting.

I said, no. Cuz the only meetings I've gone to this fella by the name of Tom who run the rescue mission. If you attended one of his religious services, he would always allow you to sleep on the dormitory with other bums.

So, I have attended few of Tom's religious services. But tonight I had a bed. Well, this fella said at this meeting, they they have coffee and donuts and they're free.

Well, I said, why didn't you say so? And I went with him. Here I am, I'm 28 years old.

And I'm not dressed too well. I needed a haircut and I suffered from wine sores. And I needed to be sober about 6 weeks so that my face would clear up.

And I, you know, I've never been married, never owned a car. I couldn't read and write and I'm in a mission. I'm supposed to pay uh 35 cents a night and I'm behind 3 weeks rent.

You know, I I have financial problems. And uh And I'm listening to this lady judge. And she's telling story about her father being a judge.

Her husband is a doctor and a director to a general hospital. And I'm sitting there saying to myself, as soon as I get my donuts, I'm getting the hell out of here. But this, you know, they say that God works through people.

This man who stood at the door when I came to AA uh was a lawyer, sober 13 years and and his job was to shake hands to the people who were coming to that meeting. And of course, when he seen me, he grabbed my hand and then he said that he was happy to see me. And I don't know if I was happy to see him at all.

But on my way out, he probably knew, like most of us know, later on that I couldn't see myself with the lady judge. That I felt I didn't belong there. Whatever it was, he he uh he put his arms around me and uh he says to me, before you leave I want you to meet some of my friends.

And probably the most amazing thing about this old business of coming to AA I have not since then wanted to drink. And whatever magic that we do have here which I myself don't understand whatever it was that brought me back to the streets for those 7 years was removed from me and about the only thing that was removed from me. And I came back because I like the way his friends treated me.

I like people who I thought they really cared about me. And it touched me. And of course coming back it's where it's been where I have been fortunate because I I needed to learn things about me that I didn't know anything about.

One was that I didn't know that I was an alcoholic. When they talked about first drink somehow I understood because I have always known that once I took a drink I never could stop. What I didn't know was that there were people somewheres were staying sober a long time and I have never known that.

Because alcoholism to me was something like very private. And when I'm not drinking it's very difficult for me to because I I I listen to speakers. I have been listening to speakers for 32 years.

And everybody get up since the day I came to AA I can identify because I the same way. When I'm sober, I I I remember my first speaker was that I understood was a fellow by the name of Ari J, who was secretary in Central Group. And Sundays, he would invite me to his home.

His wife, Helen, and he had two daughters. And he would bring me back to a mission. And Ari spoke one night, and Ari talked about something I have known all my life.

And that is loneliness. You know, but I thought loneliness was reserved only to a bum. Maybe maybe someone who have no education or maybe an Indian never fitting in life.

I never thought Harry, who is an officer in the bank, who has a nice home, a wife, Helen, and two daughters would talk about things that I felt laying on the floor in a mission with 40 other bums. I don't think I understood really what Ari was saying, but what I felt was for the first time in my life sober, that I wasn't alone. Because my illness somehow told me every time I stopped drinking, John, there is nobody like you.

Absolutely nobody. And you're no good. You know, judge said that.

Judge told me that Fayette Park in Syracuse was for the decent people. And I agreed with him. And I want you to know that there is no worse kind of a sickness than when you say, yes, I am no good.

You know, there's something There's difference if someone said it. And I really believed that I was no good. But you see, my problem and where I have been fortunate that uh I needed to learn how to live.

And in Syracuse, New York every meeting you go to, they would read the fifth chapter. And fifth chapter you know, talks about the program of recovery. But there were no step meetings and I couldn't read and write and I didn't know what they were talking about.

So here I am in my fifth year of sobriety. I'm now 33 years old. I'm working on Salvation Army on a truck for $16 a week.

And I have a pass in my pocket telling me that I could come home at 11:00 and life is tough. You know, because you know, first 2 years in AA, it was good. It was good because I was meeting new people.

Uh we're going out after the meeting and have lunches and uh helping people. But slowly but surely the things that I felt alone when I walked in the streets came back. I was lonely walking in the streets.

I was bored in AA meetings. I felt I go to a meeting and people say, "How you doing, John?" I got to say yes because when you're sober 5 years, you're not supposed to be lonely. And you're not supposed to feel scared.

You're supposed to be like other people who get up and they talk about buying a new car. Going to school and getting divorced and married again and divorced and married again. At least they're doing something.

>> >> So, I did what I've always done when when I feel this way, I guess. Even looking back now, I had to learn how to be honest with myself and with my feelings. And and because I didn't have a program, the program says the key that opens the door to a program of recovery is in believing.

And believing is the only thing that it will start to make you honest and accept the truth about who you are. And there is no principle is effective unless the truth is behind it. But how do you tell anyone, "I'm sober 5 years and I'm lonely and I'm scared when you're not supposed to be by this time?" Well, I did what I've always did and what most of us do, I suppose.

When we feel we don't belong, I left Syracuse, New York. Broke. I didn't know where I was going and I really didn't care.

And I arrived in Marlborough, Mass at 1:30 at night. A town that I have never been before. And in the main street, there is a a flop house called hotel.

And I stayed there. And next night, I went to the Saturday night meeting. And I met the fella by the name of Paul who owned the restaurant.

He says to me, "John, they're starting a new group in Worcester Monday night. Would you like to go?" I said, "Sure." So, I walked into my first step meeting. And what they did in Worcester and still doing it today was to read the first few pages of the step.

And then they would separate themselves to 12 and each table and then everyone would start to express their ideas, their insights, their their beliefs as to what this particular step means to them. And there at the age of 33, I've heard for the first time what our co-founder talked about what we read tonight. Steps are for recovery.

But I didn't understand it. I've never heard these words before and I didn't like it. I mean, I I didn't say it to myself, "Gee, I find something I can't wait till I come back." I said, "I don't like this meeting." You know?

And I go back and they were talking about that I should be restored to sanity. I didn't like that at all. I I've been around long enough by this time that I felt that some should be restored, but I wasn't one of them.

>> >> So, I wouldn't go back. I would go Paul would say to me, "Would you like to go to Worcester?" I would go and I remember sitting there one night and Bill Wilson said, "All alcoholics." That means me. "All alcoholics," he says, "are self-centered in extreme." I said, "That's not fair." I'm just a poor Indian who never had a chance.

>> >> You know, and it's not fair you you are. You don't have a home, you don't have a job, you don't have a girl, you don't you don't have an education, you're lonely, and you go for meetings for help, and someone calls you names. I go back to my open meetings because in open meetings, if I say, "Well, you know, I don't have a home." Don't worry about it.

Just go to meetings and don't drink. I liked that because I didn't like work. >> >> I don't have a car.

Don't worry about it. Just go to meetings and don't drink. And if I tell someone, you know, I need a girl I'm horny.

>> >> Don't worry about it. Just go to meetings AND DON'T DRINK. >> >> NOW THEY SAID I'M SELF-CENTERED AND EXTREME.

I mean 33 years. I was able to blame everything to everybody. Now they point the finger at me.

And I don't understand it and I don't like it and I wouldn't go back. But you know they say that God works through people and sometimes in a very strange way. Because of all the people in the world you wouldn't imagine that one day a priest and I would get together.

You know? Just like you would never imagine that this bum with long hair and wine sores and dirty one day a lawyer put his arms around him. I mean, the world just don't live like that, you know?

I mean, I've never met people like that. I met Father Fred. He's now 80 years old.

Sober 30 years. John, he says to me I I go to institutions and I was wondering if you'd come with me. I need someone to travel with me.

I said, "Sure." I said, "But don't ask me to speak because I don't talk in English and I don't have an education." Well, he said, "Don't worry about it." And I thought that meant no. >> >> It was very intelligent to me. And so we travel.

We go to different institutions and Father Fred is a good speaker. He got words and then he you know and one of the one of the prisons we went to was in Walpole prison, which is a maximum prison, killers. And one Saturday afternoon at 2:00, Father Fred get up and he says to these killers, "I brought a speaker with me." >> >> And I knew there was nobody else there.

I looked around anyway. Now, what do you say to killers? I mean, I'm just a skid row bum and I had a terrible time make 59 cents for bottle of wine.

I mean, I I'm not a killer. I don't even consider killing anyone. Oh, there were times and I'm sure you felt the same way in my younger days when you know when when I drank I had this feeling that I could lick anyone.

And that's a very dangerous feeling. In Syracuse, New York, there is a bar room they call Smitty's. That's where all the New York Indians drink and I'm a Micmac Indian and I don't drink in Smitty's.

Because Micmacs and New York Indians don't communicate too well. But when I feel good sometimes like licking someone, I go to Smitty's. And I would drink there and I looked around and I'll find someone who looks like I didn't like.

And I would stare at him for a long time. Make wait, you know. That's what animals do.

Make them wait. Then I would go over there and I would say to him, you know, I you look like somebody I don't like and and and I would hit him. And they would call the cops.

And I I have never trouble had trouble with cops. I used to wish I could put one of them down. But they always sent two or three of them.

Because that's where New York Indians drink. That's why they sent two or three cops. They didn't send them because of me.

But one day they sent this big fat cop all by himself right now. And I figured I'd take care of him and boy you him and I was wrestling and I got a very good hold on his pants and I pulled >> >> but he's so fat that his pants came first. And next morning he brought him to the courtroom.

And he stands there holding his pants like this. Judge said, Johnny calls me John because I've been there before. And uh and uh he says, "What's the problem?" I said, "Nothing.

All I want to do is put him down. But he's so fat." And Judge Dorgi, he was an alky. I didn't know him.

So he started to laugh. And people in the courtroom started to laugh, so I laughed, too. Until I got 3 months, they were all still laughing when I >> >> But you don't stand up in Walpole prison and tell these killers how you tear a cop's pants.

But I suppose I'm the last person in the world I whatever I said when I get up. Who knows? Who knows?

If someone came to me that day and say, "John, you hang in there and one day you received a call from Moncton. >> >> You know, I have a sister who lives in reservation in Mariah, Quebec. She comes over and visit us, my wife and I and our kids in summertime.

Last summer she was telling me how how well off we were when my father was alive. And that was news to me because I don't remember that. And she said that my father, of course, made a living in in in making moccasins by the dozen to lumber company and axe handles and baskets and snowshoes and he would trade everything.

And my sister said that in our house we had one room full with food. And my sister's idea of being wealthy is to have one room full with food. And thank God she still believes that.

But I'm not from what do you call a a dysfunctional home. Everybody today comes from a dysfunctional home. I tell the kids down home that the only reason you come from a dysfunctional home it's because you were in it.

>> >> But I'm from a trouble home. And uh my family took sick after my father died and they all died with TB. Seven of them, including my twin brothers.

And I think when we talk about uh fears and not being able to share them. I can look back after my mother died at the age of 13, and she died with TB. Uh I I developed a what I call today a very unhealthy feeling that I was not wanted because most people felt I had TB.

Now, this is, of course, not true. Except it was true to me. And that is a part of my illness that I must come to learn to see the truth one day.

You know, because Bill Wilson said we will not wish to shut the door in our past. No nor the past will ever deprives us from the spirit of being free or being effective as human beings. But it was real to me.

You know, I live in this old empty house with a dog in between two mattresses for almost a year. And I had fears because and fears cripples my life. I couldn't sleep.

That's where fear affects me. It makes me feel insecure. It makes me feel scared.

And that's the way I felt and and I guess there is nothing wrong to feel that way. The problem is when you don't share it. And it seems to me that even when I lived in skids you know, I have never met a bum and said to me, "John, this morning I'm lonely." >> >> Or this morning I'm afraid.

Or this morning I need love. We seems to have problem with those human things about us. You know, and I didn't know that.

I I left home because I felt I wasn't wanted. I was a little over 14 years old when I arrived in Patton, Maine in CC camp. And I met the fellow by the name of Bill Angster who was in charge and uh I was with him for 4 years washing dishes and when I was 18, I left the lumber camp.

I I wanted to go back home to my people, but I thought the war was on. And I I thought that if I could join the army and if I get a pass, I could I could go home. So, I went to Quebec City and joined the Canadian infantry, not because I um I'm not a not a patriotic type of person.

You know, I knew then that this country was ours before it was yours. I figured it was your problem and not mine. >> >> I was hoping maybe I can win a medal without getting hurt.

Cuz I'm a very sensitive person and I get hurt easily and I don't suffer well. What I didn't know was that if you don't have an education in Canadian army, they wouldn't allow you to go on training. So, I wound up washing dishes.

Now, this is the problem where problem starts for a person like me. The book talks about a man without faith. It's a person who cannot live with himself.

We cannot because faith represents the truth. And one who does not have faith will seek approval. Will tell lies about himself just to fit in.

Don't you know, nobody can fit in with a lie. No matter how good you are. Because it's not people that removes you.

It is you remove yourself. You know? They say when you don't have faith, you will settle for less.

All people without faith settle for less. Without faith, you never make a decision based on whatever experience or knowledge that you have. But you base it on fear.

You know? I look back when I was 18 years old. Here I am.

I want to be something, you know? I don't know why, but I want to go home to my people with a uniform on so they can say, "Jesus, he's grown. He's something." But something happened.

When I washed dishes, he told me that I was nothing. That's what he told me. And I wouldn't go home.

And I wouldn't go out with the girls who might say, "What are you doing to search?" You know? I was And I didn't drink. And I didn't smoke.

I was And I find a friend who was from Ontario. His name is Joe. And if he's not in AA, he should be.

But we didn't drink together. We're sick and hell. We're We always talk about doing great things.

One day, someone said to us that in Saint Lawrence Street in Montreal, if you go over there with money, you can pick the girls right in the street. You don't have to worry about rejection. They don't have to like you.

All you need is money. And that was a good news for Joe and I. We We talked about it for about 6 months.

>> >> One day we'll do that. And one day we went and we found the girls. We stood there.

And we stood there. >> >> And we stood there longer than most girls did. I didn't know I needed a drink.

I didn't know I needed a drink. I just felt what people would say if I do such thing. >> >> Never mind what I say.

Anyway, we got our discharge together and he says to me, "What do you say we each buy buy suit?" We did and we went to those of you ever drink at the Patria, we went to the Blue Room Cafe in the second floor and they had a a four-piece orchestra playing as you walk in and this beautiful girl standing there singing practically with no clothes on. And I think that's where I received my first spiritual awakening. >> >> And then I took a drink and you know the story about drinking.

I don't know I don't know if I drank because I felt uncomfortable being an Indian or because I washed dishes in Canadian Army or because I couldn't talk with English. I don't believe that because you know I've been sober 32 years and I have met a lot of sick people. I mean, I met some people are really screwed up and some of them poor bastards don't even know enough to drink.

>> >> I mean, if trouble make you an alcoholic, there would be an alcoholic. Maybe the lady judge was right. I never understood lady judge.

She used to say that it's a mental obsession that proceeds to first drink and once you take a drink, now it's coupled with a physical compulsion. And I used to say, "Holy Christ." >> >> I wished if I had a disease or something like that. The book talks about an alcoholic suffers from the obsession of mind.

Maybe that it is true. Maybe when I walked in there 32 years ago, somebody somewhere just picked it right out to me. With all the troubles I had, and I had fears I might get drunk, but I never once wanted to drink.

All the troubles I had since then, never never once I thought it would be good idea for me to go out and get drunk. You know? And it's not didn't happen to me alone.

I mean, we're now in 120 countries. There is some magic that that lives here. You know?

And and it's here. And this is what happened to me. And the second thing the book talks about that I am a type of person that once I take a drink, I experience a physical abnormal reaction that non-social drinkers don't.

And what it means to me I suppose that all the years that I have been coming here and everything that I have learned and everything that I have and friends, that if I was to take a drink all that stuff you have taught me wouldn't do me a damn bit of good, and you know that. You see people who go back. You know?

But what keeps me sober is this getting down on your knuckles and asking. You know? And it kept me sober long before I believed or knew anything about it.

But I did it because I was simply told. You know? Now, get back to drinking.

I'd love to drink. Every once in a while, you know, somebody will get up there and say, "You know, I never had a good time drinking." Well, you know what? The poor bastard, he's You You got to feel sorry for him.

30 years you drank and you never had a good time. And I look at him now and I say, "You're not doing SO WELL SOBER." >> >> I FATHER MARTIN SAYS, "IF YOU'RE HAPPY, you forgot to tell your face." I like to get close to people. There is some magic about drinking that I could put his arms around someone and say, "You know, I like you." >> >> I like the idea of uh falling in love about twice a month.

11:00 at night, I'm looking at her with one eye cuz no longer can I see her with two and telling her how beautiful she is. And she is because alcohol affects your vision. And next morning you look at her and you say, "Holy Christ.

You were so cute last night. I can't wait to get drunk again to fall in love all Now, that to me makes sense. And I loved her.

And when I was going through that, you don't come to me and say, "John, you're drinking too much." Hey, I'm enjoying myself. You know, some You never heard some speakers said the reason I didn't like when I drinking I woke up with people that I didn't want to be with. THAT'S WHY I DRANK.

>> >> TO BE WITH THAT TYPE OF PEOPLE, I enjoyed drinking. But all at once, something happened to us. And you know, they say you have to be ready.

And I tried it. In my days, there were no treatment centers. So, every once in a while a bum would say to me, "John, you look sick.

Why don't you to a pledge?" And you know, when a bum tells you you look sick, you're sick. >> >> So, I would see a priest and supposed to be a Catholic and and I would go to confession because that's what he wanted me to do. And the message was, of course, trying to be uh decent person.

And I know how to be decent. I really do. I was brought up to be taught what is right and wrong.

The problem was with me after a week or 2 weeks or being decent, I'm so lonely. You know? And I don't know where did came from.

I was lonely when I was I wasn't decent. You know? And I felt I didn't fit in.

You know? I couldn't sleep. I have all these fears.

I felt different. And you know, nothing changed. And then I would get drunk and I said to myself, "Yeah, you're no damn good." Then Tom said to me in a mission, "There's a fellow by the name of Coming." A Billy Graham by the name of Billy Graham coming to the War Memorial.

He said, "This man helps a lot of people. You go and listen to him." So, I go to War Memorial for a couple of weeks and I listened to Billy Graham and and I got sober by the electric. And I got drunk.

And it's a very confusing. It really is. I remember I was in a mission one night and this fellow get up.

He said he was a bum just like us. He said, "Right in this mission." He said he accepted Christ as his personal savior. And since then he said he never drank, he got married, he bought a home, he worked nights, and he said he has a new station wagon.

And then he says to us, "Any of you bums can do the same thing. All you have to do is move forward." So, I move forward and I knew nothing about Christ. You know, I spent 4 years in a lumber camp and I used to listen to those lumberjacks talking about him.

You know, and by the time they finished with him, you wouldn't believe me either. But here I am, I kneel down and he kneeled next to me. He said I was saved.

The next morning the judge says that the fair park is for the decent people. So what happens to Father Fred? I said to him because I've been over this step meeting and they're talking about being restored to sanity and it hurt me.

I said to Father Fred, "What do you think about this business of being restored to sanity?" Oh, he said, "John, you don't think you understand the step." I said, "What?" He said, "Step says you come to believe." I said, "Father, I've done that. It never worked for me." He said, "You did what?" I said, "I went to confession, I listened to Billy Graham, I accepted Christ, and every damn time I wound up with a judge." You know, he has one track mind. And I said "Look, I'm sick, not stupid.

I don't get mixed up with that." He said, "That's not what the step says, either." Yeah, I said "Well, how do you believe?" Father Fred says, in the book he says, "All you need is an open mind. That's how everybody believes. You open your mind to become teachable." You know, do you know the self-centered person is a person who does not have an open mind?

Do you know what our co-founder says? The chief activator of all our problems come from a self-centered fear. Do you know the self-centered person, a person who cannot have a relationship?

Terrible, terrible time with relationship because it's not a person who gives anything, it's not a person who's willing to understand anything, it's not a person who's willing to accept anything, is a person who wants something. Who wants something. I'm not like that.

I'm not like that. You know, he he he misunderstands me. I'm a nice person.

I just never learned how to fit in. You know, and if if if I had if I had a nice girl, someone that I really love, not just any girl. Because I had any girl before, it didn't help.

Someone that I really care, nice home, good job, money and a car, then maybe I wouldn't feel that way inside. What is it that Bill Wilson talks about an alcoholic? How we rationalize this.

How we justify. He says that through the years he has developed layers and layers and layers of self-justification. You know what that means to me at the age of 33, John?

Your problem is because you're not an Indian. Your problem is it's not because you're an Indian. It has nothing to do whether you can talk good English or not.

It has nothing to do whether you have an education or not. It's not because you're an Indian. It has nothing to do whether you can talk good English or not.

It has nothing to do whether you have an education or not. Your problem is I am not teachable. You know, I I I protect that by rationalizing and justifying.

And you know, when you talk about a spiritual awakening, a spiritual awakening represents the new state of consciousness. You learn to see something that by yourself you could have never seen. New state of consciousness, the book calls it a gift.

A a You know, and on my way home from the bus to Marlborough, 16 miles, I said this for the first time in my life, "John, you're 33 years old. You don't have a home. You've never been married.

You don't have an education. You don't have a wife. You don't have a car." Father Fred said, "We all have to start from where we are with what we have." And you know what I said?

I think I will. Didn't know what the hell I was going to do, but I was going to do something. Guess what happened?

Every morning I go to the restaurant owns Paul owns the restaurant. I walked in there this morning and Paul says to me, "Rita, who was the waitress, she wanted to know if you could paint her house." I said, "Sure." I used to paint steeples in the church when I was drunk. She said, he says to me, "She wants an estimate.

Why don't you go over there and give her an estimate?" So, I went over to see Rita. It's a big house. It's funeral home now.

I went in there, walked around three times. I went in there and I said, "Rita, it'll cost you $300." She gave me a job right away because other contractors wanted 12 to $1,400. Just because you're trying doesn't mean you make sense.

Yeah, I got a job. I said to Paul, "I have a job, but I'm broke." "Why don't you go back?" he said, "and ask her give you some money." She gave me $100. I got me a a little room, kitchenette, for $7 a week.

Uh I went over and buy me a white coveralls. I figured if I'm going to be a president in my own company, I should buy me a white coveralls. I went to a meeting that night and Paul I came to me and he says to me, "John, I'm told you're looking for a ladder." I said, "Yes." He said, "I work through telephone company.

I will deliver you a ladder Monday morning. But don't tell anyone. It's against the rules." The damn thing is yellow.

You know, you can see it miles away. >> >> But I painted this house and uh and I I owe When I finish, I would owe Paul $65 and I'll be in the hole. I I was at the meeting one night and uh this plumber came to me.

He said, "Uh You says to me I'm told you paint houses." I said, "I do." He said, "I have a little ranch house 7 miles from here. All you need is a step ladder." So, I bought a step ladder and got all my drop cloths together and I stood in the corner and I stopped a bus. And the guy he looks at my ladder and he looks at me and he says, "You're not serious." >> >> And I said, "I am.

I'm self-employed." And and He says to me, "If I give you a ride, would you promise you'll never do it again?" But my next house was a school teacher. Paul says to me, "John, there's 69 questions. Why don't you ask her to help you?" And she kept telling me that she taught school 40 years and she retired and and uh So, one day I said to her, I said, "You know, I don't have an education and I I like to uh get my driving license and uh I wonder if you could help me." She said, "John, I've taught thousands of people and and no time at all I knew the questions inside out.

Even I knew I was going to pass. And I went in the Marlborough police station and this guy he brought me in this little room and he only asked me two questions. I mean, I got depressed.

I said, "What the hell do you used to have an education. Nobody gives a damn. You know?" But he gave me this pink slip.

I had a license and Paul came to see me where I was working. He brought a big black station wagon. I used to call it 11 passengers because I used to bring 11 people to a meeting.

John, he said, "For $750, it's yours." But I had no money. The lady who belonged to my group, she says to me, "John, if you can borrow $250, I will co-sign for you." And next morning, I borrowed $250 where I was working. She co-signed for me and here I was in my 50th sobriety.

I was president in my own company. I had a driving license and 11-passenger station wagon. So, I decided maybe I should find me a girlfriend.

But I had these four teeth missing. I lost those while I was communicating with those New York Indians. And uh I felt you couldn't find a type of a girl I was looking for with four teeth missing.

But someone said there's a new dentist in AA. And by this time I learned new people are very anxious to help you. So, I went over to see him.

One night and I said to him, "You know, I'm having uh some problems." "What's the problem?" he says. "Well," I said, "I'm looking for a girl, but I have these four teeth missing." So, he gave me his card and a couple of months later he gave me a new set of teeth. Then I met a lady in AA.

She says to me, "John, I'm told you have a car." I said, "11 passengers." She said, "I I I run a home of alcoholic women. I have nine girls and I'm looking for someone to bring these girls to a meeting. Would you like the job?

I said, "I'll be very happy to." That's where I met my wife, Kathy. On our way home that night, I said to her, "Would you like to go out on a date?" She said, "No." I mean, she didn't even think. And I'm a very sensitive person and I get hurt easily and I don't suffer well.

But on my way home, I said to myself, "Who in the hell she think she is? Here she is living with those women, none of them have anything. And here I am, I'm president in my own company.

I drive 11 passenger station wagon. And I have new set of teeth. Who the hell wants her anyway?" But next Thursday night came along and I picked the girls again and on our way back, I said to her, "Would you like to go to show in Boston?" And she said, "Yes." And on our way back, I asked her to marry me.

That's 27 years ago. Six children later. And that's the story.

Kathy and I get married and uh we brought up six children. Three boys, and we got twin boys. Three boys and three girls and uh my wife, she's sober 27 years now.

And uh and uh you know, of course, it would- wouldn't it be nice if I can say that one day this Indian without an education, without trade, without nothing went over there and he just made it. Uh that's not the way life is. You know, and don't come down and say, "John, let me make a decisions for you." >> >> That's why the church steps as we make a decision.

But I must say because of uh Alcoholics Anonymous, because where can you find people? All you have to do is ask. I mean, we got everybody here.

I mean, you name it and we got education here, we got lawyers here, you name it. All you have to do is ask and people will be very glad to sit down and talk to you. You know, and growing up, you can't do it alone.

I remember when Cathy and I were married, we had our first baby, and I went to IGA and uh tried to cash $15 check and the guy wouldn't cash it, and I insulted him. And he says to everybody, "This is your third check bouncing this store and they're never going to bounce again." And I'm telling you something, I don't know about you, but it hurt me. But there was a man at Wellesley on Tuesday night.

He's a gentleman retired from work and he always smoked a pipe, you know, very quiet. And I used to talk to him. I went over there and I told him that he wouldn't cash my $15 check and I need to buy groceries, I'm behind on a car payment, I'm behind on oil, I got a wife and and and a baby and and he sat there listening to me with his pipe.

Then after he finished, he put his arms around me and he said, "John, but you're doing so good." You know, it was news to me. >> >> "Just a year ago," he says, "just a year ago," he said, "you didn't have a woman that loved you. Can't you see?

You're saying that. Just a year ago he says you didn't have a baby, John. Just a year ago he says you didn't have room.

Just a year ago he said you didn't have car. John, can't you see? You know?

But this man was talking about values. He was talking about things that don't mean nothing to me. Cuz I don't know how to live.

You know? I don't know what spiritual life is all about. You know?

You know, in closing, to be honest about you, so much of what I am today, uh I will bring in grave with me. And thank God that I have learned that it has never been it has never been the lack of what I am that has ever robbed me from the spirit of living. But it has always been the lack of acceptance of who I am.

Lack of ex- It never allowed me to go from where I am with what I have in life. I have never can accept John, you are what you are. Stop denying yourself.

Stop putting yourself down. Stop saying that you're not good enough. You are what you are and you're going to be until the day you die.

You know? But what can I do? First, you learn to accept who you are.

Stop fighting who you are. Happiness is not when you become somebody else. Happiness is not when you got that job or that money.

Happiness is not when you get your degree. Happiness comes from the truth and truth is who you are. That's what you're denying, John.

That's why the step says, "Go home and sit down and put in the paper about you everything about you that you can remember. And when you finish, find someone and tell the truth about you." Tell the truth. "And if you do that," he says, "then you will experience some freedom from isolation." And when you finish, you go to next step and say, "God, there's nothing you can do about you, but you can say, 'God, I'm ready.'" The third step doesn't say you're going to do something.

Third step let six step, he says, "You become ready." And the next step, which is the seventh step, you humbly ask him. And when you ask God for something, you you have to accept his answer. So, you got a lot of problems, right?

You got a lot of pain, and you got this, and you got that, and you go to God and you say, "Oh God, remove it." And God don't. So, you said to yourself, "He didn't hear me." I'm going to ask him again. And we're creating an emotional conflict.

What we don't want to accept that God says, "Pain is a touchstone to a spiritual progress. If I remove your pain, you're not going nowhere." "Trust me," he says. "Trust me." That's the secret.

And if you trust God, you learn to accept yourself. When you stop fighting yourself, you learn to start being effective. After all, in closing, in 11 step, the prayer of St.

Francis, our co-founder says, "The only reason we have chosen St. Francis not because he's a saint." Those of you who read the 11 step, you know he said that. He said, "We have chosen him because in his lifetime he was crazy as we were.

>> >> So you have a chance to pick up a saint. >> >> Don't look at me. I know I'm not going to make it.

You don't know my record. What Saint Francis said? Saint Francis didn't say anything that you and I can say.

What Saint Francis did was to exercise the gift that God gave him. I have right to choose. Saint Francis said I choose, Lord, that I want to be an instrument of thy will.

He didn't say I want to be perfect. I want to be good. He says I want to be an instrument.

Because whatever you and I become in life, we become by choosing. And then he said things like crazy. He He says a lot of crazy things.

Lord, he says where there is hate, I may bring love. >> >> Not if you're self-centered. Where there is sadness, I may bring joy.

Where there is doubt, I may Where there is darkness, I may bring light. And then he says things that that really way out of reach. Like Lord, he says I pray that I may understand rather than to be understood.

>> >> Lord, I pray that I may love rather than to seek love. That I may console rather than to be consoled. Then he says, "For it is in self-forgetting that you find and it is in giving that you receive." And we sometimes said to ourselves, "Is this too much?" Or is it what Saint Francis said is reserved only to human beings that God gave them right to choose.

And all St. Francis was saying, "God, today I'm choosing." That's all he was saying. You know, can I say that?

Sure, I can say it. I might not believe it. But I can say it.

It's been a pleasure to be here. I talk about my wife quite often and our children growing up now. My wife is working to support me.

And And Kathy, will you stand up and say hello? >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> THANK YOU, JOHN.

THAT WAS TERRIFIC. NOW, can you see my situation back there trying to identify with somebody like that? A high-class Indian like me?

Especially now, you know, it would have been all right if I knew that 25 years or 26 years later he would have a 14-room house and two automobiles and a construction contractor. I would have been able to identify then. >> >> But Doug Doug S, would you thank the speaker, please?

Okay, Don is going to do it. Sorry. >> >> Hi, everyone.

I'm Don Tuck. I'm an alcoholic and this is a surprise for me. It may not be a surprise to John, but it is to me.

Uh by the way, John, I could stand a little paint around my house. >> >> This This has been a real real pleasure for me. I I was in a position just for a short period to try to be of a little bit of help to contact a few people and and John was coming and I I I knew that his sidekick here You know that they they come from a long way back, so the real the real treat for me was the night that I called Ben and asked him if he would if he would come up and chair the meeting for John.

And you should have heard him on the other end of the phone. I I really couldn't do it because I don't feel that young. Uh but it was a a real pleasure and and uh John, I I don't know.

I I just can't say too much. I think I know how people feel. I I got so much out of what you've said and I've you know, I've heard you many times and tonight is just more special.

I don't know. I guess maybe it's the first Atlantic and and being part of it and I just hope everybody has a has a terrific weekend and I know you're going to have it anyway. There's no point in me wishing it on anybody because it's here.

This round up has been a success since our first meeting and it's just looking better and better and and give me a hug, would you? >> >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day. >>