AA Speaker – Jay S. – Hobbs, NM – 2006
Jay S. shares his journey from early-onset alcoholism and multiple bottom experiences to 27+ years sober in AA. An honest account of Step work, sponsorship, and spiritual awakening.
Jay S. from the West Coast got sober on May 2, 1979, at 24 years old after years of blackouts, jail time, and waking up homeless in his car. In this AA speaker tape recorded in Hobbs, New Mexico in 2006, he walks through his first few days in the program, how working the Steps lifted the obsession to drink, and what recovery looks like when you actually do the work and stay connected to the fellowship.
Jay S. describes his alcoholism as both a physical allergy (the phenomenon of craving) and an obsession of the mind that made him willing to do anything—eat glass, blackout for days, lose relationships—just to keep drinking. Within his first 100 days sober, after doing a thorough Fourth Step inventory and starting amends at 24 days, the obsession to drink was lifted and never returned. He emphasizes that sponsorship, working all 12 Steps, staying away from any substance with alcohol, and carrying the message through one-on-one “kitchen table AA” is how people recover and build lives beyond what they could imagine.
Episode Summary
Jay S. opens with a striking statement: it’s Friday evening and he hasn’t had a drink all day, which for “an alcoholic of my variety is quite amazing.” What unfolds over the next hour is a comprehensive portrait of early-onset alcoholism, a moment of surrender, and what happens when someone actually works the program.
Born in El Segundo, California, Jay discovered at age 12 that he could metabolize alcohol better than bigger, tougher kids—a “gift from God” he set about developing. By 15, he was mixing sedative pills with wine. By his twenties, he was an alcoholic who understood nothing of what was happening to him. He calls this the physical allergy: when alcohol hits his system, it triggers the phenomenon of craving, a relentless pull for “the next drink.” But the disease had a second component—an obsession of the mind. Even sober for a few hours, his thinking would spiral: *We’re not drinking. We’re not having any fun. We should be drinking. We should be drinking now.* Middle of second period in 11th grade. He’d bolt, chase the drink, and the moment he had it, the noise would stop.
What Jay didn’t understand then was that this obsession of the mind, paired with the physical allergy, manifested as what he calls “soul sickness”—the inability to show up for anyone he cared about. He’d promise to be home at 4:30 on Tuesday, and his wife would find him Thursday morning, having drunk straight through, unable to explain where he’d been or why. He thought he was a bad guy. He didn’t know he was an alcoholic. Every relationship ended. He lived in his car. He couldn’t hold a job. The pattern was always the same: pull it together for three to five months, then watch it all run through his fingers.
In 1979, at his lowest point—arrested for DUI in San Jose, living in a Pinto, unable to answer basic questions—his father asked him, “Do you think you have the disease?” A still, small voice inside said, “Pay really close attention. Maybe you’ll get the lawyer paid for.” So Jay said, “I don’t know.”
His father connected him with a man who had 10 years sober. This man didn’t take Jay to a meeting. He sat with him at a Howard Johnson’s and talked about himself. When Jay, impatient, asked if he needed a hospital program, the man was direct: “A hospital will cost three grand. If you can get your hands on three grand, go drink it up, and when you’re done, call AA. They do it for fun and for free.” Something about hearing it said out loud—permission to drink the money, then plan the next move—made Jay laugh. The man gave him the white pages and said, “Look up Alcoholics Anonymous.”
That night, May 1, 1979, Jay poured himself a water glass of bourbon and called AA.
His first meeting at the noon group in Manhattan Beach changed everything. People were talking at him. His hands were shaking from the beginning of withdrawal. A man named Butcher Joe shared about the moment his family left—how he cried on the outside but celebrated on the inside because now he could drink without anyone bothering him. Jay understood that completely. Then Butcher Joe looked him dead in the eye and said, “You don’t ever have to feel the way you feel about yourself in this moment ever again.” Jay bought the package right there.
He read the Big Book that first week. In the “We Agnostics” chapter, he found his answer. The line “Who are you to say there is no God?” convicted him. He got on his knees and prayed: “I don’t know from Jesus or Buddha. I don’t know from the Talmud, the Torah, the Upanishads. Just get me the top. I’ll do whatever these dried up old geeks say to do. Just please help me not to drink.” He’s convinced that in that prayer, he did the first three Steps.
By his 22nd day sober, Jay was living with his grandmother and told his sponsor he’d drink if he didn’t do a Fourth Step. His sponsor gave him the classic approach: drink a lot of coffee, think of every place you lived, every person who walks through the door and makes your stomach drop, write their name. Three sentences on why no one’s life is that interesting. Write down the life forms you woke up with. Who do you hate? Who have you stolen from? It took Jay three and a half hours. It wasn’t fearless or thorough—it was the greatest hits. But he read it to his sponsor the next day, they said the prayers, burned it, and sent him out to make amends.
The obsession was still there, though. Every third thought: *We’re in AA. We should be drinking.* It debated with him, started up again. But around 100 days sober, sitting on the beach wanting an iced tea—something he’d never wanted in his life—the obsession lifted. It never came back. He’s thought about drinking since, but it’s not the obsession. There’s a difference.
What follows in Jay’s share are stories of recovery. His grandmother’s prayer list at church. His wife getting sober in 1985. The three people they silently named in meetings before the closing prayer—all three got sober within a year and a half. His own active sponsorship starting at 30 days sober. His belief that every person in the room is there to save someone, and that sponsorship between three and eight years sober is where the best work happens. The spiritual retreat where he surrendered his will and life, only to find himself building a house in Central America. The moment, 25 years sober, when his father—who never joined AA but quit drinking with Jay’s support, his sister’s sponsorship, and a visit to the Rogue River Roundup—died on Jay’s 25th sober birthday.
Jay describes attending that Roundup meeting while his father was in the hospital, not knowing his father would speak there that weekend, meeting an old friend who’d counseled him through his stepmother’s death, and realizing that “anytime I think I’m doing something for God as I understand God, where does He bring me? Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous.”
He talks about a website he created—3 Minutes of Silence—offering free meditative practices from Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Islamic, and Jewish traditions, an outgrowth of starting actual meditation at 12 years sober. He dreams deeply. He sleeps with a woman he loves. He has a daughter he’s never hit, never struck, who loves him. He comes from violence and chaos, but now he’s part of a community.
And he closes with a warning and an invitation: if anyone ever tells you AA is a lower form of spiritual consciousness, move toward the door. They don’t have the disease. They don’t need to know. But you do. “We clothe the naked. We visit them in the hospital. We visit them in the jail. And we raise the dead here. If you’re not sponsoring somebody, you’re missing the greatest opportunity that any man or woman has, which is to be saving a life.”
Notable Quotes
You don’t ever have to feel the way that you feel about yourself in this moment ever again.
The man took a drink and then the drink takes a drink and then the drink takes the man.
I don’t know from Jesus or Buddha. I don’t know from the Talmud, the Torah, the Upanishads. Just get me the top. I’ll do whatever these dried up old geeks say to do. Just please help me not to drink.
The secret of Alcoholics Anonymous in four words: Find God or die.
If you’re not sponsoring somebody, you’re missing the greatest opportunity that any man or woman has, which is to be saving a life.
Anytime I think I’m doing something for God as I understand God, where does He bring me? Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous.
Step 3 – Surrender
Sponsorship
Big Book Study
Hitting Bottom
Step 12 – Carrying the Message
Spiritual Awakening
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Step 3 – Surrender
- Sponsorship
- Big Book Study
- Hitting Bottom
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Spiritual Awakening
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
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Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. We hope to always remain an ad-free podcast, so if you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-onrise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. Now, the girl at the desk was surprised when I asked for the thong.
My name's Jay and I'm an alcoholic. God's doing for me tonight what I couldn't do for myself because it's, you know,4 to 8 on a Friday evening and I haven't had anything to drink all day long, which for an alcoholic of my variety is quite amazing. Could I see the hands of all the people that have been at all 26 of these tumble weed things?
Yeah, baby. Thank you. Thank you.
And uh how many folks here are in their first couple years of sobriety? Outstanding. Now, uh I bring you greetings from the left coast of the United States of America.
Your brothers and sisters out there that are working this thing just the same way that you are. And I've had the privilege to be in a lot of meetings in a lot of different places and be with a lot of folks. And tonight, you know, there are literally millions of men and women in places like West Africa and places like uh Chile that are getting together in twos and threes and fives and they're not drinking just the same way as we are here tonight.
But we get to be heir to this tradition of coming together in these large groups and it's a wonderful thing. And they, you know, you bring some lame trick in to tell a little story. And I'm here with you today because I'm I'm just an alcoholic that uh that's found a release from that terrible affliction with which I was cursed.
Um tomorrow, I'm not going to go into any of the history stuff tonight. I I have the privilege of of you know, tonight I'm going to tell you my story, but tomorrow I'm going to have the opportunity, I like to call it about telling our story, a little bit about the history of Alcoholics Anonymous and where it is that we come from. See, I bring you greetings from my fabulous wife, Adele.
Adele's got 17 years sober. Um, I bring you, you don't have to worry about clapping because alcoholism gallops in my family. It don't run.
I bring you uh I bring you greetings from my my brother-in-law Gregory who's got 22 years of sobriety and his wife Regina who's going to have 20 years in another couple of months. They live in Las Vegas, Nevada and they're part of the double digit group that meets at the Salvation Army. So if you're ever in Las Vegas, go by and see my sister Regina.
My home group's the Hermosa Beach Men Stag. We meet on Monday nights in Herosa Beach, California. And if you're there on Thursday night, I'd like to invite you to the 11step meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous in Manhattan Beach.
And it's a mixed meeting and it's the greatest meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous in the world. And if you don't believe your meeting is the greatest meeting in the world, don't come and mess mine up. Um, let's see.
I bring you uh I bring you greetings from my mother who's been a member of the Allenon family groups for 22 years. Anybody here uh member of the Alanon family groups? All right.
I bring you greetings. Yeah. I bring you greetings from the steps of recovery meeting.
We meet on Tuesdays at noon in Manhattan Beach, California. And uh my wife is extremely grateful to everything that you've taught me. Um let's see.
So that's uh that's the sobriety side. All those folks have been sober uh including myself and I came to you on the on the second day of May in 1979. And although I found it necessary on a lot of occasions, I haven't taken the front drink, sniffed any glue, or done any of those other things that I found to be so consoling.
Uh and all of us have been sober from our first meeting in Alcoholics Anonymous. So, if you're here for your first pass, just realize that relapse does not have to be part of recovery. Now, yeah.
Now, we all have our own stories and you know, we all have our own stories and no story is better than another because it's all about our own personal sobriety. But, you know, just if you're sitting out there wondering when your slip's going to come, don't worry. There are other people who will take it for you.
Um, so I also uh uh in my family, I'm kind of big on this not drinking thing. Um, my brother-in-law Douglas died of cerosis of the liver four years ago. My stepmother Marsha died of cerosis of the liver three years ago.
My father died of complications of alcohol uh is in about two and a half years ago. Um, and then I've got one other sibling, my uh my sister Maria. She's one of those girls that dates poorly and marries worse.
And she's currently um up in the mountains around Crested, but Colorado. Um she's not a street person because there aren't any streets where she's at. Country living, it's vast.
Um, so anyway, uh, that's kind of why I'm here. It's the the Sten family. We have alcoholism in it and it kills.
Um, now, uh, I was born in Elsagundo, California, which if you need a reason to drink is as good as any. It's kind of like El Paso on the Pacific. Um, on one side of the on one side of the the town is the Los Angeles International Airport and then on the east side of the town is the Northro Defense Contractor and on the south side of the town is the uh second Chevron oil refinery once the town got its name Elsagundo.
And then on the little patch of beach in between the town and the Pacific Ocean is the waste treatment plant for the entire county of Los Angeles. So toxicity is just a way of life. You know, you want to get right with your environment.
And uh and so I was I was born there. And uh you know, for all my family's weirdness, um my uh my folks uh they fed me, they clothed me, they taught me to read when I was really, really young, they taught me good table manners, they introduced me to God as they understood God. And I will be forever grateful for those gifts that they gave me because no matter how far down I went, I had some tools to climb back up.
And I'm I'm deeply deeply grateful for that. Um I was the short kid in school. You remember the short kid?
I can't throw the ball as far. I can't run as fast. But I found something when I was 12 years old that I could do better than guys that are bigger and tougher than stronger than me.
And that's metabolized beverage alcohol. Obviously, this is a gift from God. >> And you know, when you find that you have an innate talent, you do what you can to bring it along.
Now, you know, when you're a short alcoholic, it's kind of difficult to get everything you need to drink, but fortunately, there's a lot of things available. And so, you augment, you do whatever is necessary. And but I didn't realize that what I had was I had alcoholism.
I didn't realize it. that what I have is I'm part of a a of a very interesting set of people. It's about 10% of the population that when I put alcohol into me, it does stuff to me that it doesn't do to 90% of the population.
example. Um, by the time I'm uh 15 years old, my idea of a good time is to eat a rack of reds, which was a second, a highpowered sedative hypnotics, and to wash it down with a quart of spinata wine. Now in 90% of the population when they do this behavior what happens is that physiologically it's called synergistic effects.
The drugs and the alcohol mixed together the brain starts to shut down. People actually forget how to breathe and they die. Okay.
With me I'm looking for car keys and to make short-term romantic commitments. So, I have an allergy of the body. When when I put alcohol into me, it does things that it doesn't do to most people.
Another manifestation of this disease that I have, this alcoholism, is that I'm able to operate my body with no knowledge of what's going on. This is called a blackout. If you've woken up with a life form with which you were unfamiliar when you left the house this morning and you've been drinking that day, you might want to take a look at how physically ill or logically alcohol is working in your life.
Now, some of my Allenon friends say that they've gotten there without any booze whatsoever, but you know, that is a special subset. Um, so I don't know that that uh that what I've got is I've got alcoholism, which is a fatal progressive physical malady, and that it manifests itself in a couple different ways. First, there's a physical allergy.
When I start to drink, I get this what what's called the phenomenon of craving. And this problem has been wi with men, you know, from the beginning of time. In fact, the Chinese have a great proverb of it.
And it's the man takes a drink and then the drink takes a drink and then the drink takes the man. And I don't know that that's what's going on with me. The other part of this disease that I have, this alcoholism, is I have an obsession of the mind.
Now, I think that what I am is an enthusiastic young man that's really looking for a good time in this life. But what happens is is that my mind starts and I've got this I've got a mind. I've got a brain where I actually believe that if I think it, I'm supposed to do it.
That's rather odd. example. This is the way the obsession would work with me.
That it be. We're not drinking. We're not having any fun.
Look at all these lames here. They're not having any fun either. We should just get the heck out of here and go have some fun.
We should be drinking. We should be drinking now. We're not drinking.
We should be drinking now. And it's like the middle of second period and I'm in 11th grade. I mean, in Alcoholics Anonymous, there's a couple different kinds of stories you hear.
There's the hasb beens. These are men and women who've had wonderful careers, fabulous marriages, incredible opportunities, and they start to drink and the drink takes them and it gradually grinds them down and they start to drink at noon and then they end up drinking wine in the alley in the morning. And then there are the never wases.
We start out drinking wine in the alley in the morning and we never go anywhere. And uh any morning drinkers here? Yeah, baby.
Yeah, baby. Um, so I've got this mind. So, what do I do?
I bolt. I go have it. And the minute I have that drink, that shuts up because I'm obviously doing what it is that I've been created to do, which is to have a good time.
Now, what starts to happen is that I've got this I've got this physical allergy. I got this phenomenon of craving going. I got this obsession of the mind and it starts to get in the way of human relationships.
This is uh the soul sickness. And the souls sickness manifests itself in this way for me is that no matter what our relationship is, be you my lover, be you my friend, be you my employer, be you a family member, be you anybody that I care about, at some point you and I are going to agree on something it is that we're going to do together and I'm going to not show up and you're going to be disappointed in And I'm going to I'm going to compromise everything that it is that I believe in. And I don't know why that is.
See, I think what I am is I'm a bad guy getting what I deserved. I don't know that what I am is I'm alcoholic. Did you ever have this happen to you?
You come home and they've changed the locks. You know, you try the key for about 20 minutes and they've got the alcoholic luggage waiting for you. Two hefty bags with all your worldly possessions in it.
And uh and so what do you do? You knock on the door, right? They ain't opening.
So you knock some more. Neighbors start to get up a little bit. So they finally open the door and they're standing there and they're crying going, "Where have you been?" And I don't know about you, but when I drink, I get very literal.
I said, 'I said I'd be home at 4:30. They said that was Tuesday afternoon. This is Thursday morning.
Where have you been? Well, I've been busy doing what? And I don't know how to explain it.
I don't know because I don't know about the disease of alcoholism. All I know is is that Tuesday I got off work. I went and had a few pops with the boys.
We started drinking through the evening. The bar closed. We went to an after hours joint.
We drank port wine until 6:00 in the morning at a bar. Then we went and opened a bar so we could get a real drink. Right.
Pushed a little food around on a plate. Got some of that Peruvian marching powder. drank all through the night and into the morning and I'm home.
She says, "You don't love me. Get the hell out of here." And I stand there and I go, "No, I do love you. If you loved me, you would have been home.
You knew that my mother was coming over this evening and you couldn't even show up for her. Get the hell out of here. We don't want you around here anymore.
What is that? I thought it was a moral weakness. I didn't know that it was alcoholism.
Physiological reaction. The man took a drink, the drink takes a drink, and then the drink takes the man. Now, does this happen every time?
No. But it happens just often enough that I can't keep anything going. I can pull it together for about a three, five month period and then it all runs out between my fingers again.
Did you ever have this happen to you? They look at you and they say, "No drinking at work and no drinking before you come into work either." Now, I don't know about you guys, but I hate to pay retail. So my idea of an ideal career path is to tend bar preferably during the day so I'm available for the evening's activities.
And uh the the guy looks at me and says no drink. Okay. No drinking.
No drinking. No problem. So I go out and I have a few pops, right?
And I get home early. Now everybody here knows what early is, don't you? 1:45 a.m.
If I'm in before last call, I'm home early, right? And so I get home early and then I I I lay down for a little while because I'm a little weary from the evening's activities. And I pop up about 4:00 in the morning.
Fortunately, in those days, I had good sponsorship. I had men who cared about me that told me what you do is you keep a a beer next to the bed, iced so that when you pop up because some of the alcohols, the depressant alcohols washed through you and you come up, drink the beer down and you can go back down for another couple hours. Excellent, excellent advice.
And then I get up at six o'clock in the morning and start to get ready for work and I have a few beers because I have to have a few beers before I get on the bus. And you guys all know why it is that I'm taking public transportation, you know, because I can't afford another lawyer. I can't afford another ticket.
I can't afford the uh the uh the driving under the influence, the insurance, all that stuff. Uh I had a judge one time look at me and he said, "Mr. Stenant, you blew a 28.
Don't you think that's a little excessive? And I looked him dead in the eye and I said, "Your honor, I'm a bartender. There should be some kind of sliding professional scale.
You can't judge me about these lames, you know? I mean, come on." And he didn't find that funny, right? Thank God it was 1976 and not 2006.
But uh so okay, I I I so I get on the bus and I go downtown. And you guys all know why I'm going downtown because the only kind of saloon that's gonna hire a guy like me is downtown. And uh and then I stop and have another couple beers on the way in.
And I come into work and my tongue's just a little thick. And they look at me and they go, "What the hell is wrong with you? Didn't we just talk about this yesterday?
You said you weren't going to have anything to drink. And I look him dead in the eye and I say, I have not been drinking because I know like you know that beer is not drinking, right? It's a food, right?
At the very least, it's a beverage. It is not drinking. See, my alcoholic life was the only one that made sense to me.
And I don't understand. You know, it's like people would say that drinking beer is drinking. Those are the same people that will try and tell you that smoking marijuana is doing drugs.
No, it's what you do in between. You know, it's green. It's from God.
you know, um, and and so they here's your paycheck. Get the hell out of here. We don't want anything to do with you.
You'd rather drink than than work for us. Every relationship in my life, that's what had happened. And I reached the point that I was uh I was living in my pinto.
I wasn't homeless. It was my outdoorsman phase. And uh I got arrested one more time for driving under the influence.
And uh and uh the guy was really nice to me. He gave me the geography quiz. Do you know what town you're in?
And it was like 10:30 in the morning and I didn't know. And it was San Jose, California, which is a fairly large metropolitan area. You should know if you're in San Jose, and I didn't.
And uh so one more time anyway over at Vodka Rocks that afternoon uh with my father, he said to me, "Do you think you have the disease?" And I said, and then the still small voice inside me said, "Pay really close attention. Maybe you'll get the lawyer paid for." So, it appeared to be in my best interest to follow the still small voice. So, I said, "Well, I don't know." and he said, 'Well, I tell you what, you can stay at my my mom's house, my grandmother, Marie, who's 96 years old, who sends you her greetings and love.
Um, and uh she uh she said, "You didn't stay with me." And he said, "I want you to call this buddy of mine." So, I call this guy up and he says, "Meet me at the Howard Johnson's in Culver City 7:30 tomorrow morning. Don't have anything to drink." How did he know? So I go go over there and I sit down with this guy and he starts talking about himself and talking about himself and talking about himself.
He had these problems in life and he met Alcoholics Anonymous and everything got better and he's talking about himself and he's talking about himself and about 45 minutes into this I realized that this guy is going to talk forever and he's not even close to closing me. So, I figure I'll prompt him. Do I need psychiatric treatment?
Do I need religion? Do I require hospitalization? And he looked at me and he said, "Well, Trick," he said, "A hospital program will cost about three grand." He said, "If you can get your hands on $3,000, go out and drink that money up, and when you're done, call Alcoholics Anonymous.
They do it for fun and for free. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'd been surrounded by caring nurturers of late, and nobody had ever said what it is you do if you can get your hands on three grand. Of course, you go out and drink the money up.
And then you plan your next move, right? Well, this guy said it out loud. And he said, "If you want to find AA, it's in the white pages of the phone book.
I suggest you call them up." And I uh I went home to my grandmother's house and I poured myself a water glass full of Davies County old-fashioned Kentucky bourbon with three ice cubes and I drank it down and I called Alcoholics Anonymous. And uh you know this is Alcoholics Anonymous and and we know each other far too well here. This is Alcoholics Anonymous.
We don't shoot our wounded. But uh you know this man, he he saved my life, this man. And I wondered later why it was that he didn't take me to a meeting.
But see, he'd had 10 years sober in Alcoholics Anonymous and he'd had 15 years sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. And that was on the second day of May in 1979. and he was not an AA member at that day, nor was he for the rest of his life, but he took the time.
It's the message. It's not the messenger. It's the message.
It's not the messenger because we all will have our times. We will all have our troubles. And this is Alcoholics Anonymous.
And we need to hang with each other. Just a little opinion. So, I went to I I I called up and I went down to a noon meeting at the old Manhattan Beach Club in Manhattan Beach, California.
And one of the things that we learned there on the left coast is that we're supposed to do the whole program of Alcoholics Anonymous. And that the 11th step is not extra credit and it's not prayer occasionally, but it's prayer and medication in order to get relief from this disease, this thing that I have, this alcoholism. And I walked up these 12 steps into my first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, and everybody started talking at me.
And I couldn't understand why they were talking at me. But when I uh when I'm drinking, my hair gets long and I kind of look like the Sphinx. And uh and my hands were shaking really bad.
I hadn't had enough to drink it. I was starting to get the zups ups. And uh and the third guy that talked to me was a guy by the name of Butcher Joe.
You can always tell Butcher Joe, right? And Butcher Joe talked about when the family left, how he was crying the big crocodile tears and inside he was going, "Yes, now we can drink and there won't be anybody to bother us." I understood that. And he talked about knowing just how deeply to cut himself at work that they'd have to take him to the hospital.
They couldn't just do a little stitch there so that he could get a little drink on the way. And I understand that. See, I'm a geek.
I'm not talking about some computer techie. I eat glass on a bet in order to get the money that I need to drink when I don't have money to drink. That's what booze means to me.
And this man looked me dead in the eye and he said, "You don't ever have to feel the way that you feel about yourself this moment ever again." And I bought the package. I bought the package right there and then. I believed that he had felt how I felt and he told me that he didn't feel that way anymore.
So, what I'd like to do right now is I'd like for just one minute to ask you guys to close your eyes and I want you to just think about that room that you came into. We'll do a little guided meditation. Think about the first meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous that you came into.
Go around the room. See where they're sitting. Remember how kindly they greeted you.
There was butcher Joe and there was China Joe and there was smiling Pete and there was Joyce who' just gotten out of the nutouse and she hadn't had anything to drink on the way. there was Gordon Ballinger who was wearing a powder blue leisure suit and that in my first day as I tried to make conversation and I asked him what do you do you know like as a job and he said I you know I said what do you do and he looked at me and he said I don't drink and I go to meetings and these people went around the room And what they did is they invited me into their lives. They told me about the pain.
They told me about the powerlessness that they felt and that they were not that way anymore. After that meeting, some guys took me down to the beach to explain the program alcoholics anonymous to me. They said, "This is a kid.
We don't use no dope here. I was horrified. But see, at that meeting, what had happened is I'd identified myself as an alcoholic by the way these people talked about themselves.
And they said that it was that you had to stay away from the front drink was the first drink that got you. and that they knew lots of people back in the back in the 60s and the early 70s that had gone to what they called primary purpose meetings. And these people were more spiritual and tougher and smarter and they were able to do other substances and and and not drink, but nobody could stay sober for more than two or three years.
Nobody could stay away from the front drink for more than two or three years. And they told me that if I smoked some of that non-habit forming marijuana that sooner or later I'd want to cut the cotton mouth, right? And you guys all know how you do that, right?
You have a few beers. And uh they said if I did any of that Peruvian marching powder, the double Bombay on the rocks with a twist just to take the edge off. Yeah, they'd be taking the edge off.
It wouldn't be drinking. And if I was being spiritual and doing a little of that LSD, You need about a gallon of wine in order to look at the sun that long. Um, to settle through the experience, they told me that that was drinking.
They told me that I couldn't use Nyquil. How did they know? I don't know about you down here in Hobbs, but I've been stuck in places like Idaho >> on a Sunday back in the day when they weren't selling no boobs.
Oh, thank heaven for 7-Eleven. Come on, honey. We'll just pretend it's cream deth on the rocks, but it'll get you through.
It'll get you. And they they said that I had to stay away from alcohol in any form whatsoever. They said that the drug bone was connected to the drink bone.
And if you're one of those addicts, it's goes the other way, too. Um, and they said that I couldn't use alcohol in any form whatsoever. You know why they call it non-alcoholic beer?
Because it's not for alcoholics. If you're drinking that crap, knock it off. You might kill somebody.
In our book, Silkworth says, "The only thing that we've got is complete abstinence from alcohol in any form whatsoever. Is there any question about something that has alcohol in the label and whether or not we as members of Alcoholic synonymous can drink it. You know, you may think that I'm a I'm not this lame that's come in from Los Angeles to spoil your fun.
What it is that I'm here to do is share my experience, strength, and hope. And my experience is being at the funeral when the wife or the mother looks at you and they say, "He was with you. We thought he was okay." And you can't say to him, "He was doing it his way." He started out having a couple of those and then he was drinking a case of it a day trying to tell us that he was sober.
just an opinion. So, I came in on a Wednesday noon and uh went to a couple meetings on Wednesday and a couple on Thursday and a couple on Friday. And and Friday uh uh night I I almost drank.
I walked into the Alcoholics Anonymous dance. I realized I was 24 years old. I was never going to get laid again in my life.
I went back out to the car I was living and started driving towards the Stickenstein. Now, I wasn't going to the Stickenstein to drink. I was just going to find a woman who understands.
And on the way, the miracle of Alcoholics Anonymous happened to me. I'd only been to five meetings and the the the still small voice inside of me said, "This is not a good idea. Turn the car around.
Now, I've heard that still small voice all of my life. All of my life. And every time I heard it, it always sounded like somebody with like thin blue lips that was trying to limit the amount of fun that I could have in a day.
And so, I always turned around and did exactly what I wanted to do. And what that does is it ends you up in Alcoholics Anonymous at a young age. But this time, what I did is I turned the car around and I went back to the uh to the Alano Club to Larry and Larry Guerrero was working the hinge and he got me a copy of the book Alcoholics Anonymous because I'd been too busy to get one those first few days.
And he I didn't want to look like an obvious rookie, right, walking around with the Bible. Um, and I uh uh and he got me a copy of the book and he sent me home and I started reading it and I got hooked in the book in the doctor's opinion where Silkworth talks about the sense of ease and comfort that comes after having a few drinks. Now that's not the way that I describe it.
But you know all this alcoholic synonymous stuff, it's in a language. They've got a lang we have a language about the problem. Then the words that I'd use instead of the sense of ease and comfort, I'd say, "Remember when the third one stays down and you can light your own cigarette and you can use your whole lung capacity." They knew.
And I kept reading and and I got into Bill's story and I was not interested in World War I >> or the stock market crash. I wanted I wanted something contemporary, something that spoke to me, something disco. Can you imagine how horrible it was getting sober wearing that gear?
There were meetings on the west side of Los Angeles where you needed three gold chains just to get in the door. Thank God we don't do what the newcomer wants. Um and and but I kept reading and I got into we agnostics which if you're in day these people at the meeting they told me that this was the last time I ever had to withdraw from alcohol.
Huh? It was too outlandish because I couldn't stay out of jail. And I'm not talking about jail.
I'm talking about jail, drunk driving, drunken auto, drunk in public, public napping, you know, all those high-flying crimes and uh and they told me it was, you know, and and you can't get enough to drink and it gets real messy. And they told me that I never had to withdraw from alcohol. And I bet my life on it.
I bet my life on it. And it's here. It's with you.
I've never had to withdraw from I haven't been to jail in 27 and a half years. Not any big deal to you. I couldn't stay out every 3 months, four months, no matter what.
It was pitiful. Um, and in We agnostics, there's a story of the preacher son. And in it there's a line and it says, "Who are you to say that there is no God and in the classic language I was convicted and I did the same thing that that guy did.
I got down on my knees and I said my prayer and my prayer was I don't know from Jesus or Buddha. I don't know from the Talmud, the Torah, the Upanishads. Just get me the top." I said, 'I'll do whatever these dried up old geeks say to do.
Just please help me not to drink. And I believe at that moment I'd done the first three steps. The prayer worked perfectly.
I'm with you. I went to a noon meeting the next day. I got there at 10:00.
Is that what was in the club opened? And I was stuck on the Nagahide couch sweating trying to smoke. And there was a woman there, Marie Sharp.
She had a black dress on and a bun in her hair. She looked like she'd been to mass 87,000 times. And she said, "Oh, young man, you're new, aren't you?
How can you tell?" She said, "I'll tell you the secret of Alcoholics Anonymous in four words. What are they? Find God or die?
Oh, no. Not that. Not that.
27 and a half years later, I can tell you the secret of Alcoholics Anonymous in four words. Find God or die. But the wonderful thing is is that we're an Alcoholics Anonymous and no one will ever presume to tell you what kind of God you have to find.
We don't tell you that you have to believe in anything, but we beg of you to make an experiment. And what it is that we have to offer for this fatal malady, this progressive fatal illness is a set of spiritual exercises which when done not agreed with will liberate the sufferer from the need to drink and put them on a life beyond anything they could possibly imagine. That's alcoholic synonymous.
>> Can atheists stay in alcohol? Of course. can agnostic, of course, but you need to do the stuff, all of it, and pay attention to what happens when you do.
You need to pay attention. You know, I could miss the fact that I haven't been to jail in 27 years. I really could.
I could take it for granted, but I happen to cherish it. So, what do you do with that information? Well, I got a sponsor at that meeting and uh I started reading the big book, you know, and and uh and I saw where if I didn't do a fourep, I'd drink.
And so, when I was 22 days sober, I was at my sponsor's house and I said, "I'm going to drink if I don't." And he said, "Okay, great, kid." And he told me a few stories and he he gave me the four-step prayer. He said, "God, I don't know what I'm doing. Help me, please.
He said, "What I want you to do is go home, get really jacked up on coffee, look at the kitchen door." He said, "Think of where you lived and at every place you lived through your life. Think of where you worked. Think of where you went to school.
Think of family members. Think of your friends. And if they walk through the door and your stomach could go like that, write their name down." And then you get three sentences on why no one's life is that interesting.
And I did it. Said, "Write down the life forms you woke up with." It was the 70s. I'm not really gay.
It just happened. Um, platform shoes. It just kind of I don't know.
Um, and he said, "Write down who you hate." He said, "You can put entire political parties. It'll work." He says, "You don't." And, and uh, and he said, "Who have you stolen from and the money that you owe?" And, uh, so I went and did it. It took me about three and a half hours.
Was it a fearless and thorough moral inventory using all four columns? No, it was the greatest hits. It was the stuff that when my head hit the pillow went on and on and on and on and he came over and I read it to him the next day.
We said the stupid prayers and we burned it and then he sent me out to start making amends. Um, so I'm less I'm I'm 24 days sober and I'm a fully vested member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Have you done other inventories?
Of course. But what happened is is I got into the amends and and and I've got the obsession to drink alcohol. Every third thought and I'm going, "No, we're in AA.
We should be drinking. No, we're in AA." You know, you go to the meeting and it debates for a little bit and then it starts up again. And at about a 100 days sober, I'm sitting down on the beach and I wanted an iced tea to I'd never wanted an iced tea in my life.
I never wanted anything that didn't have a punch to it. And it's never returned. The obsession to drink alcohol has never returned to me.
Have you thought about drinking? Oh, sure. I've thought about drinking, but it's not the obsession.
There's a difference. And I never thought, you know, when people told me that the obsession had leave, I'd look at them and say, "Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Right." You don't really know what they were right.
And I was wrong. So, what can I tell you about life in Alcoholics Anonymous, freed from this incredible curse with which I was afflicted? Well, you know, I'll tell you a few stories.
When I was about six months sober, I went up to my grandmother, Alice. Alice had taught me how to tend bar. I owed her just a little money.
And I said, "Grandmother, I I'm sober in AA. God and Alcoholics Anonymous are keeping me sober. Here's some money and I'll be paying you back the rest." And she said, "What did you say?" And I said, "God and Alcoholics Anonymous are helping me to stay sober." She said, "Great, kid." And she got her purse and she starts moving for the door.
Where are you going? She said, "About four years ago, you and I had a conversation where you told me that you didn't believe in God anymore, and I went down to the church and I put your name on a list, and me and the girls have been praying for you, and I need to go down and report that my grandson has been restored." Spiritual terrorism. It's really effective.
It's really effective. This is not an opinion. This is my experience.
1985, my then wife Jacqueline got sober. A wonderful, wonderful blessing in my life. And we picked three people, her best childhood friend, my buddy Jeanie, who was a cocktail wast waitress at a saloon that I uh that I was tending bar at.
and uh my sister Regina who was missing in action with her self-employed Colombian entrepreneur boyfriend. And every meeting we went to, we said their names silently before the prayer. Within a year and a half, all three of them got sober.
All three of them picked up one-year cakes. And the two that got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous, Genie and my sister are still sober. And the other woman decided after a year that she didn't have this thing in the way that we did.
She chose to pick up. It was a conscious choice. It was not compulsive drinking, which is what it is that we come in here with, or at least that I came in here.
So, I'm going to give you spiritual terrorism 101 for those of you who are not big about running down to the church and putting people's names on lists and stuff. When you go into a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and you see an empty chair, because each of you know somebody who's really bad, walk in and tap the empty chair and say their name. Invite a friend or two to join you and then keep it up and watch what happens.
Pay attention. My belief is and my experience is that they'll show up and that just might be the guy that I work the steps with that saves my life. So, this is a way to pray without ceasing.
Just tap the chair. Just tap the chair. Just tap the chair.
Um when I was 20 years sober, I uh you know, big deal. I And the best sponsors in the world, by the way, are about between three and eight years sober. And I think that everybody should sponsor.
Everybody. Yes. Everybody.
I believe that every man and woman in this room, there is one person that you are here to save. And if you aren't here and you aren't armed with the facts and you aren't you aren't available, what's going to happen to that person when they're what about the AA success rate? You know, I started sponsoring people when I was like 30 days sober, right?
I went to my sponsor. I said, "What do I do?" He said, "If God sends them to you, you can't hurt them." Let me repeat this. If God sends them to you, you can't hurt them.
It's important, you know, little philosophy. You hear people say, "I tried Alcoholics Anonymous and it didn't work for me." Don't ever, ever, ever let anybody get by with that line unless they tell you that they have paid back the money and they've looked the people in the eye whose trust they've violated and they've asked them what they what you can do to make that better. The ninth step, it's not about the promises.
It's about changing the world that we live in and the shackles that we have placed upon the men and women who we inflicted upon with our disease. And that's our responsibility to go and to do that. And that's where liberation starts.
But the true freedom of the spirit comes when we sit down with another man or another woman and we do kitchen table aa one- on-one. One-on-one turning pages working steps. That's alcoholic synonymous.
Not, oh, I'm not drinking. I've got mine. Um, you know, it was between like three and eight years sober.
That's when that's when my best work in AA was done, you know, because I was I was sober man, you know, armed with concepts, traditions, and steps. I can transcend anything. Give them to me, I'll save their lives.
You know, it's a great man. If you ain't been evangelical in AA, you know, just wait because it is a wonderful, wonderful ride. And uh and anyway, uh so I I've been active and involved in all this stuff.
And I I had the privilege of when I was 20 years sober, I've been involved in the retreat movement since the very beginning. And uh I went off on a on a retreat, a silent retreat for a few days with and I turned my will and my life over to God as I understood God in a very special poignant way for me. And uh you know, but then I got to pay attention, right?
And so I'm I'm hanging out and I I got this church I hang out at at uh and um this guy gets up and he goes, "I'm going to go down to Bise and I'm going to build a church." Met this guy who wants to go and I'm sitting there and I'm going, "Well, I don't have the time and I don't have the money." But fortunately, I've been meditating long enough and my my my heart gets to overrule my mind at all times. And so I stand up And uh and then I uh go home to the nice Jewish girl I'm married to and I'm say I'm going to build a house for David down in Central America. Now now everybody knows here that the reason that you don't do a third step, you don't want to do a third step is you're going to end up being a missionary in a third world country, right?
And it's not hip. But Adele looked at me and she said, "Well, ask your customers. They'll send you, you know, just for entertainment value.
And uh so they did and they all had the same prayer. Don't let him touch any power tools. And uh I get down there and I'm with these nice people.
And uh I'm an active guy. I go to like five I go to five AA meetings a week. I've got a meditation group at my home.
I go to a couple other meditation groups. I've got a church that I go to on Sunday. And uh I'm I'm a a fairly good uh father to 18-year-old daughter and I'm a I'm a I'm a pretty darn good salesman for the for the person that I'm employed by.
Um there's enough time for everything. There's enough time for everything. So anyway, I'm down there and I I I start looking for an AA meeting because I even take my alcoholism into the jungles of Central America >> and uh and I and I walk up to this Guatemalan priest and I say, "Yo, Busco, alcoholic Muslim." And he starts to cry.
And he goes, "You're so And there in the middle of the jungle in Central America, this man told me his story and I told him mine." See, anytime I think I'm doing something for God, as I understand God, where does he bring me? Alcoholics Anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous.
Alcoholics Anonymous. See, I was taught that if I if I put AA first, everything in my life will be first class. And it's a very very small price to pay.
A very very small price to pay. Um when I was uh about three years ago, my stepmother was very sick and I had the privilege of going up and helping her to to to pass from this life and uh and uh and my father was just a wreck. Their idea of making love 3 days before she's dying of cerosis.
Anybody here know seen cerosis of the liver? For those of you who have not seen the privilege of what happens to chronic alcoholics is that when the liver shuts down, what happens is is all the waste in your body starts to go out through your pores. And it is a horrific way to die and you swell up and it's just awful and it hurts really really bad.
and she and my father would eat Vicodin together and drink salty dogs. That's alcoholism in my family. And she passed and I was able to be there for her and uh and and for my dad.
And at the funeral, everybody's going, "Well, what are you going to do about your dad?" You know, I ain't going to do nothing. You want to talk to him? You talk to him.
Allanon. Alan on. So anyway, um I gave him about six weeks and I drove up.
Uh he lived the ranch he had was 10 hours away from from me and I just happened to be in the neighborhood and I drove up and I found him in his command post covered in his own waist at 5:30 in the evening in his bathroom. Now I've said to you that I'm an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous. So, what that means is is that I've been on the 12step calls.
So, I know exactly how to do that. I know how to take a man and clean him up, get him in the shower, clean up after him, and never look down on him because he's another alcoholic just like me. And I was able to treat my father in that fashion.
And I said to him, "Dad, I found this place that'll take you, the VA, they'll dry you out. No big deal." I said, "I'm not talking about you going to those silly meetings." Because he actually went to jail for a week instead of going to the meetings. Um, I'm not going to be with those whiners.
Uh, you know, two kids out of the gutter, completely wonderful lives, and I'm not going to go and hang out with those whiners. And, uh, and anyway, I uh, I said, you know, so tomorrow we'll go there. And the next morning, he looks at me and he goes, "Well, I've been thinking all night.
I'm not going to go." So, I did what you guys have taught me to do. I went and meditated. I drove away.
I went and had a quad latte. I need to be awake in order to hear the voice of God. Made a few frantic phone calls.
And then I'm driving back towards the ranch and I still don't know what's up. And fortunately, I'm I'm familiar with our literature. And in Dr.
Bob's Nightmare, he says, "If you want to quit drinking on your own, that's entirely your affair." Oh. So, I walked into the house, gave him a kiss, said, "I'll go to the store for you. Bye." Didn't hear from him for a week.
I tried calling a couple of times. phone wasn't answered and I didn't uh uh I didn't uh send the neighbors over all and uh what happened is is that he called me up and he said Jay I'm about half angry with you really why he said I had no idea it'd be that tough and he kicked a quart and a half of vodka and you know maybe 14 15 pills of Vicodin a day by himself myself and I said to him, "Yeah, Dad." I said, "It was so bad for me, I never picked up again." And we started to talk occasionally and I'd tell him what I knew about physical sobriety. And physical sobriety is a wonderful thing.
He was able to um to reconcile with my sister and with his mother. and uh Easter that year his uh my sister was up there and she was getting calls from responses and my dad said, "Well, what's this sponsor thing?" And uh so she told him and he looked at her and he said, "Well, I guess Jay is my sponsor." And uh she gave me a call and she said, "He's really sick. You better come up here." And so I did.
And I I found him and he was you know being a cowboy and he was all beat up and looking really bad and I I gave him a day and then I took him to the medical center and you know I'm an AA guy. You know I got him in the hospital and I went to the the silly meeting at the club in Medford and you know they didn't realize that Soberman was there and uh so I'm hanging out at the literature table and I got a directory and I found that there was a meeting at the medical center that my dad was in. So the next day I'm there and I go to the meeting there and again they don't recognize soberman.
>> But uh they got a flyer for the Rogue River Roundup, a thing just like this. And a very very dear friend of mine, somebody who'd given me great counsel when my stepmother was dying. Woman by the ma name of Mildred Frank from Toronto, Ontario, Canada was speaking that Friday.
my very very dear friend was speaking right there in that town that Friday. So I was able to go and see Mildrid and then you know I went back and the old man the cancer was really bad and far advanced to him and he and and uh you know they said you know we can do this radiation and you'll have a 50% chance of living a year and it'll be a six-month treatment. And I said to him, "Dad, I think it's a crappy hand." And he said, "Well, so what do we do?" And I said, "Well, I think we fold." I said, "I'll stay with you.
Let's go home." Said, "We know how to work with hospice." And we went home. And eight days later, he passed. And I was able to be there with him.
And I was able to bring his mother up and his and his and his and his do daughter up. And and and his mother was actually able to be there alone with him when he took his last breath. She saw him come in, saw him go out, and uh and he died on my 25th birthday in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Now, I've been known in my neighborhood for a long time to be really a little off the bubble, taking these spiritual risks, going places, doing this, doing that. But when that happened for me, I became completely unhinged. I believe that there's far far more going on here than I have any idea at all what it is.
But I know that it's good here. It's good in Alcoholics Anonymous. I know that whatever we say here is really important, but it's in our coming together that something really beautiful and wonderful happens.
Um, as a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous, it's my job to support any dream that you have. any dream that you have. And it's an amazing amazing thing to be on this path.
Every year what I do is I sit down and I think if I could do anything in the world, what would I do? Anything. And a couple of years ago, um I'm a member of Initiatives of Change.
It's the Oxford group. The Alcoholics Anonymous came out of it. Frank Bookman, the man who initiated the Oxford group changed the name to moral rearmament.
In 1939, a group all over the world tried to get a 100 million people to meditate, a 100 million people to listen, a 100 million people to try and see if there might be an answer beyond our human consciousness, beyond our race, beyond our religion, beyond our nation. so that we wouldn't be plunged into the madness that was the second world war. Did it work?
I don't know. I don't know. But something really wonderful happened.
Lots and lots of people were involved. And uh so what I did is I thought if I could do anything in the world, see my life really changed when I was 12 years sober and I started actually doing a meditative practice. And so I started a website called 3 minutes of silence.
And there's a dozen different meditative practices on there. I think you ought to drink. I I think you ought to pray and you ought to meditate the way you drank.
Try it all. Try it all. And there's all there's Buddhist stuff and there's there's there's Hindu stuff and there's Christian stuff and there's Islamic stuff and there's there's Jewish stuff and there's it's it's and it's all fun and for free on this on this on this website and it's the number three minutesofilence.org.
And on October 1st, I invite you to join me with thousands of people around the planet to do that same thing. No matter where you are, no matter who you are, but to send spend just three minutes with us at at it would be like noon here on that day and look for an answer that's beyond our human consciousness. I don't know what your dreams are, but seem mine have been realized.
I sleep with the woman that I want to sleep with more than any woman on the planet. I've got a daughter who I've never beaten, I've never hit, I've never struck, who loves me, and I get to support in every way that I can. And I come from some really weird violence.
I'm part of a community just like this one, and I get to go all over the planet playing in this thing that we call Alcoholics Anonymous. Don't play small. Dream deeply.
Try all kinds of stuff. But if you ever, ever, ever run into anyone who tells you that Alcoholics Anonymous is a lower form of spiritual consciousness, look them dead in the eye, smile, and move towards the door because they're not part of the 10%. They don't have the obsession of the mind.
They don't have the physical allergy. They don't have the soul sickness in the way that we do. And they don't need to know.
They won't understand that we do it all here. We clothe the naked. We visit them in the hospital.
We visit them in the jail. And we raise the dead here. If you're not sponsoring somebody, you're missing the greatest opportunity that any man or woman has, which is to be their saving a life.
Well, they all drink. Yeah, they do. A lot of them.
They have to do it. We can't do it for them, but we have to be there and we have to be willing. We have to be kind.
We have to be inviting. And we have to stay and support each other in this work. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.