Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. We hope to always remain an ad-free podcast, so if you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-onrise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Dustin Barnes, alcoholic.

>> Uh, real quick, just going to do some quick introduction stuff uh before we start getting into this. Uh, real quick, my sobriety date is 3:206 and uh I went to treatment in this town. So I don't know if you can call it treatment really but I was subjected to the tortures of the state system at the time.

So um and it was good trust me. Um we are going to uh be sharing our experience today. Um it's just our experience you know.

Um, the deal is is I I used to have this idea that if you weren't sponsoring a certain way and if you weren't out doing this and if you weren't out doing that, then you probably weren't going to make it. Um, probably because if I didn't do that stuff, I wasn't going to make it. And and a couple of months ago, I got an opportunity to sit in a in a small town in northern Minnesota and I walked in and the meeting happened to be on the 12th step.

And I had one of those experiences that I think are necessary to uh continue to grow in this program. And what that was was that I listened to a guy talk about how they do 12step work out in the middle of nowhere in northern Minnesota. And I realized how richly blessed I was because they literally don't have the facilities and they don't have the the big influx of drunks both local and and from different states coming into their area.

What they have is people that come into the meeting and and they just they find out they they look in the phone booth and they walk in. And uh what I realized from that was you know my experiences may be different from someone else's. I'm so richly blessed to be in the Twin Cities and and to have um such an opportunity for sponsorship and such an opportunity for 12step work and and to be able to uh come in contact with a lot of alcoholics that are newly sober and looking for sobriety.

So, um I I preface that because I just want you to know that I'm just going to share my experience and and uh Kelly, my wife, uh filled in luckily for Juliet who went into surgery emergency uh this this last week. And um I'm so blessed to have her with me. And and we're going to share our experience.

It may be different from your experience. Uh you may agree, you may disagree. Uh but the way I was brought up in sponsorship is I'm not responsible for the outcome.

I'm responsible for the effort. I'm responsible when when the phone rings. I'm responsible to say, you know, if I can if I can do it, absolutely.

Absolutely. I'll be down I'll be down to St. Peter.

I don't care if the cops are blocking the street. You know, I I don't care. It's funny.

Uh came up to me and said, "Is this okay?" You know, you all right? You know, the the cops blocked it off. And it's like, "Buddy, few years ago, I was strapped down in medical restraints.

Like, I'm golden. You know, I'm I'm cool." Uh the other deal is that I would like to thank anybody that had anything to do uh with us being here today. I I used to think I have to do this stuff to stay sober and what I realize today is I get to do this stuff.

I'm alive today as a result of the program and the fellowship and being of service in Alcoholics Anonymous. And I I don't have to do anything. I get to be of service.

I get to share my experience. And what a cool deal. So, uh we're just doing some quick introduction stuff.

Uh, real quick, I want you to know that that I uh I'm not a person that that's an original winner in Alcoholics Anonymous. You know, I I didn't come in and and just get a wonderful experience and and and to just, you know, become real spiritual. That wasn't my story.

You know, my story is I tried I stayed sober for a year and changed the first time. I got loaded. I came back.

I I went for 30 days. I got loaded and I said, "I'm never going back to Alcoholics Anonymous. So, you got to understand if I'm going to share my experience, I'm going to share some of the stuff that didn't work as well as the stuff that did work.

And I'm not trying to be adversarial when I do that. I I don't know what you're doing down here. It's nothing personal.

It's just my experience. Uh the other deal is is I came back to Alcoholics Anonymous uh drug back. You know, I didn't just walk in and go, "Here I am." You know, I was drugged back u by a way of a state commitment.

You know, you'll hear people all the time say, you know, you can't you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. You know, you you can't force an alcoholic to get sober. And I want you to know that the state of Minnesota is not familiar with that policy.

You know, they just they are not aware, nor do they care. They they'll bring us here. You know, it's the greatest outpatient program that they have to offer because it doesn't cost them anything, you know.

So that's how I come in. That's how I come in. Uh the other deal is that uh what I did find is I'd been doing a lot of things that I thought were going to keep me sober and they didn't.

And so I had a lot of hurt and a lot of anger to work through uh this process through. Um I love Alcoholics Anonymous and and I want you to know that I'm not a spokesman. I'm not an expert on sponsorship.

How silly would that be for me to be some sort of expert? I'm I'm none of those things. I'm just an example that Alcoholics Anonymous and sponsorship uh you know, strong sponsorship works.

I'm an example one way or another. I'm sober today. And that was something I could not do for one day at the end of my drinking.

I could not not drink one day at a time. I I just couldn't pull it off. Uh, I would make the decision not to drink and then later on my mind would say, "Well, that's a little bit of a serious decision, don't you think?" I mean, you could probably have a drink to knock the edge off and I would say, "Yes, yes, that's a phenomenal idea." I would have a drink setting off the cycle and I would be drunk and then I would be coming home the next morning and it was just it was it was hell on earth.

So, my experience may not be your experience, but I'm just here to share mine. That's it. Um, and uh, with all that said, I'm going to ask my wife to come on up here and do a little introductions and then we're going to get rolling.

Hi everybody. I'm Kelly. I'm an alcoholic.

Um, it's so funny because, uh, you know, Dustin's like, "Oh, you know, I get to do this today and all this stuff, you know, and when he first got asked to do this and he wanted a woman's perspective, he of course comes to me and I say, no way. No, I'm terrified." I'm like, "Nope, not going to do it. Find somebody else.

I don't want to do this." And, uh, you know, God always has different plans. And so, you know, he struck Juliet with, you know, an illness and here I am. So, I'm grateful to be here, though.

Um, you know, we came in and you guys were so welcoming and you made us comfortable and um you were so friendly and I'm so so so grateful to be here. Um, makes me a lot less nervous. Um, but my sobriety date is July 22nd, 2006.

Um, I did not I did not come in here because I wanted to. I did not come in here because my life was perfect and everything was going great. Um, I came in here because I was homeless.

Um, I was had knew not a soul in Minnesota. I did not have a job. I did not have any money.

And I did not have any way to do anything but go to treatment. And I came into treatment not saying I'm going to go to treatment and get better. I came into treatment so I could find a job, get an apartment, you know, have a place to stay for 30 days to get my life back together.

Um, and it was funny because the first night I was there, they brought me to an AA meeting. And in this AA meeting, there's all these people and, you know, they're just they're happy, they're laughing. You know, it it wasn't the best AA meeting in the world, but I tell you what, I was so glad to be there.

It was the weirdest thing in the world that I had ever seen. Um, I knew about Alcoholics Anonymous because my dad was in it. Um, but I had never gone.

Um, you know, and I'm not a relapser. I I came in, I stayed, I stuck. Um, and I I honestly was very very very excited about AA after that meeting.

Now, as I got down the road a little bit, I got very discouraged. Um, as I went to more meetings, I started to not like AA so much. Um, you know, because you'll hear a lot of opinions out there and you'll hear a lot of a lot of things that were not working for me.

You know, I I was told to get a sponsor, so I did. Uh, my sponsor said call me every day, so I did. Um, she said go to meetings every day, so I did.

Um, she said go to the sober house, so I did. Um, but that was about it. That was about all she told me about.

I'm like, "Oh, well, can we do the steps?" She said, "Yeah, yeah, you can do those." And that was it. So, I'm sitting in this sober house who does not believe in AA, by the way. And uh I'm reading the big book.

I'm going to these meetings that aren't talking about the big book or anything in the big book. I have this sponsor who's not telling me anything about anything, and I'm absolutely miserable. Um, but the thing that was so cool is I didn't need any of that.

All I needed was the big book. And I did what the big book told me to do. Now, it wasn't to the best of my ability, but I did it, you know.

And I was just reading an article over there in the archives and it was so funny because it was from it was a letter to Pat Cronin who said and Bill said, you know, in in areas where there is no AA, here's the book. We hope this helps. We've heard that this helps for where there's areas where there's no AA.

Now, there was tons of AA everywhere around me. And the only thing that helped me was the book. How sad is that?

you know, and and like Dustin said, we have no right way, we have no wrong way. You know, I sponsor almost every girl that comes to me in a different way because there's different things that they need. Uh but the one thing I always do is I take them through the book because that's what's that's what is important.

And uh I have a sponsor today who um as well did not take me through the book because I had already been through it, but I did that on my own. And she said, ' Kelly, you know enough about the book. I don't need to take you through that.

You know how to work the steps. I don't need to teach you how to do that. She said, 'You had the book to teach you how to do that.

And I thought, how cool is that? Uh, but we are so excited to be here. We're excited to get into the sponsorship stuff.

Um, I think what we're going to do is take the uh questions and answers pamphlet and there's all those questions in there and we're just going to share our experience on on those questions and and what we do and what has been done for us. So, um, we are very glad to be here. Thanks for letting us.

Now, uh we're we're coming out of the the questions and answers on sponsorship. Uh but what we're what we're going to do here is is we're going to take the questions uh that are in there and just kind of share our experience with them. Or you the other thing that well the first one here that we're going to look at is what is sponsorship?

You know, there's a guy uh in my lineage of sponsorship that that used to say stuff like uh the word sponsorship means so much nowadays that it doesn't mean anything. It has so many definitions that it doesn't mean anything. And and also said that any any problem we have in Alcoholics Anonymous can be solved by one-on-one sponsorship.

that that that's that's the way that we can really carry the message is one-on-one, you know. So, so what is sponsorship to me? Well, what I can tell you is exactly what Kelly was saying.

Until I got someone in front of me who was saying, you know what, the answers come out of the big book, the directions for how to recover from the mental obsession and the physical allergy driven by the spiritual malady, the directions for how to do that in the big book. That's that's why it uses such terms like directions, you know, clear-cut, specific, we shall tell you what we have done. And and and so I'm going to continue to go back into the book today just because that's how I was taught.

And I believe we're a product of of of how we were brought up in Alcoholics Anonymous. There's a lot of things that I'm going to share today that that are not original ideas, if you can believe that or not. It was stuff that I was sponsored into.

It was something that I was shown through a living example of what the program, the fellowship and being of service could do. A living example who pointed me in the direction. So sponsorship to me, you know, page 18 of the big book, the bottom paragraph says that the man who is making the approach has had the same difficulty that he obviously knows what he is talking about.

That his whole department shouts at the news prospect that he is a man with a real answer. that he has no attitude of holier than thou, nothing whatever except the sincere desire to be helpful, that there are no fees to pay, no axes to grind, no people to please, no lectures to be endured. These are the conditions we have found most effective.

I think that the the the phrase strong sponsorship brings up an idea of someone screaming in my face to tell me what to do. And when I say that, that's not what I mean. Sponsorship for me was always someone sharing with me what they had done.

It's always been someone sharing with me in context of their experience with the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, which I was taught is laid out from the cover to page 164 of the big book. But what about the meetings? Well, that's something else.

That's unity. That's a different side of the triangle. That that's where we go to bring it together as a fellowship.

You know, I I have some goofy ideas about this stuff because I'd been to meetings before. I think sponsorship is someone that I hang out with and I drink coffee and uh we sit there and zing each other back and forth and I got a buddy and we we just do a lot of fun stuff together, you know, and that's a part of the deal. Uh what I can tell you is some of the guys that I sponsor and I have become real good friends.

we have become the best of butts and we'll sit there and zing each other and we'll have a good time and you know we'll itch and scratch and drink coffee and carry on and and do the deal. But before that could happen, I have to have a base. I have to have a foundation in my life.

And and I was taught that that's that's recovery. That's recovery. We're going to be buds maybe.

I don't know. But we're going to work the 12 steps. and the sponsorship I've had, we work and rework the 12 steps because I've experienced in my own life that uh believe it or not, my character defects hung out after the first time through the steps.

I didn't become like some holy roller, you know, a big- time believer. Sponsorship did something for me that uh uh psychiatrists couldn't do, you know, sponsorship did something for me that uh the men of religion couldn't do. And and what that was was show me how to go from a militant atheist.

I mean, I was I was just I I wanted to argue. You want to talk about God? You want to talk about a higher power?

Oh, I know what you're really talking about. And we would just And I go back and forth all day long on that stuff. A sponsor sat me down and said, "Yeah, yeah, I know." Are you willing to believe?

Well, sure. I have no choice. And took me through a process.

And what happened was it's through the process of the 12 steps as they're outlined in the big book, actually. Yes. actually paying back the money.

Yes, actually knocking on the doors and saying, "Hey, you know, I wronged you in this way. I would like to, you know, write all matters to the utmost of my ability. Not in that language because that sounds goofy, but to to have that intention when I show up to to start and pray and meditate and to start to keep track of how I'm doing on a daily basis." By doing that, what happened was I had a direct experience with God.

It it wasn't about theories or opinions or ideas. I went from a militant atheist, didn't believe, but willing to because I was backed into a corner with a gun barrel called alcoholism pointed at my face and going, "What other option do you got?" So, work the 12 steps and have an experience with power in my life. All of a sudden, I start to wake up.

That's it. Spiritual awakening. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message.

What message? the message that I've had a spiritual awakening as the result of the steps I did. My life changed.

All of a sudden, I start to have a personality change sufficient to recover from alcoholism. I'm no longer obsessing about a drink. I don't wake up in the morning and just choose not to drink.

You know why? Because I choose wrong some days and I drink. The power in this universe regardless of what you want to call it placed me in a position of neutrality and allowed me to start living life on a different basis.

You know the the 12 and 12 talks about the the the steps are spiritual in their nature. A set of principles spiritual in their nature that if practiced as a way of life can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to live happily and usefully whole. What a good deal.

You know, I mean, really, if you come from where I come from, like I could be whole. I can I can wake up in the morning and not want to drink. See, because I thought aa and I thought having a sponsor was we sat and we gripped onto the tables in our meetings as just as hard as we could and we just tried to not drink one minute, one second at a time.

Not my experience. My current experience is is if I get taken through the steps by a man who has a real answer because he's done it. He's done the work prior to me and he can show me how to get from a a sniveling, whining, hopeless drunk to a man who has an experience with a loving creator who can start to grow up, you know, start to grow up a little bit and and start to be responsible and do all that.

What a cool deal. There's so much power in sponsorship. You know, the history stuff was great.

I believe we have a responsibility. You know, we read the responsibility statement and then the guy walks up and says, "Will you sponsor me?" And we go, "You know, I kind of got a lot going on. Just read the book and call me in a week." I don't know how responsible that is, you know.

So, so sponsorship to me is nothing more than a person who's engaged in the process of recovery, hopefully knows something about the 12 traditions which are in theory supposed to govern our fellowship and has a working knowledge of of how the circle and the triangle comes together and we can live happily and usefully whole when we start to address the mind, the body and the spirit by working the 12 steps, bringing our body to the meeting, being of service, you know, and so a sponsor that is involved and engaged and bought the whole package. The whole package of Alcoholics Anonymous, the circle and the triangle to do the deal. You know, that's what it means to me is someone who who well and you know, has the light on in their eyes.

That's what I see sponsorship as. When I see a person who's got the light in their eyes and they're carrying this book and and talking about the solution, what a cool deal. This is a person that that knows how to get out of the ditch.

And that's that's all I really need. I don't need a therapist. If I need a therapist, you know what?

I should go get one. You know, drunks are one. We're wonderful people.

I love alcoholics. I don't know if we're the only people that do it, but I know that we like to give our opinions on things we know nothing about on a regular basis. You know, because of one's been married eight, nine times doesn't make them an expert on marriage.

You know what I'm saying? If I need a marriage counselor, I should go get one. You know, if I need therapy, I should go get it.

If I need a psychiatrist, I should go get it. I think we put a lot more on sponsorship than it was ever intended to be. It's a person that can show me a way out of the ditch, show me a way out of alcoholism, and uh that's it.

Okay. So, what is sponsorship on the women's side? Um, now I I was talking to Don earlier uh when we first got here and uh we were talking about how it can be in some areas really really hard to find strong women's sponsorship.

Um there's just not as many women in AA as there are men. And sometimes women uh my opinion um what I've seen is women that come to me for sponsorship seem to always have something better that comes along. Um, so it's very very it was very difficult for me in the beginning because I got sober in a really small town in northern Minnesota and I think there was like three women in the meeting that I went to, you know, and so it was it's it was very difficult for me to find a woman to sponsor me.

Um, you know, and so it was funny. So Dustin and I, we drive down to the cities almost every single day for meetings. And uh there was this lady that um we were at this meeting at the oh what was that place called where Rick does this fourstep workshop the CRC and uh this woman just comes bouncing along like I've never met anybody like this before.

She was just so excited and so happy and I'm just like it's noon lady. What is your deal? You know and she was just I mean hugging everybody and oh who are you?

Are you new? Oh my goodness, how great to meet you. This is so wonderful.

Let's talk. Are you coming out to lunch? Blah blah blah.

And I'm just like, whoa, you're nuts, you know, and here's my number, blah. I mean, she was just crazy. And uh you know after the three months of you know going to meetings having the sponsor who was not telling me to do anything and uh sitting in a parking lot of a bar in a small town nearby um going should I go in should I not go in what's going to happen you know what should I do bl I I literally sat there for like three hours debating in my head what I should do um and so I call this lady you know because I'm like obviously she's is very excited to be here.

You know, I wonder what that's all about and maybe I should call her and see what that's all about. Um, and so I called her and she uh said, "Why don't you come over to my house?" I said, "Okay, where do you live?" "Well, I live in Minne or I live in St. Paul." I'm like, "Oh my god, I have to drive all the way down there." You know, you know how we are.

We just really don't want to let anything inconvenience us. But, uh, you know, I did. I was I was miserable.

I didn't know what to do. and I drove down there and um basically what she did was, you know, she got me writing another fourstep. Now, this is I'm 90 days sober and this is the second four step I'm doing.

Um and thank God she did that because this one actually had a fourth column on it. So, I got to see my mistakes and stuff. So, it was very, very good that she did that.

And we went through a fifth step and this woman was just she was loving, she was compassionate, she knew the book inside and out. She was willing to help me any way she could. Um, you know, and she was just she was very wonderful and I was very very blessed to have her come in my life.

Um, you know, there it's funny. We hear a lot in uh in Minneapolis that uh a sponsor is somebody who takes you through the steps and that's it. And I'm not sure I believe that.

I believe that that's the first thing a sponsor should do is take you through the steps. That's what I do with the women that I sponsor. I say, "Okay, we're going to go through the steps." I lay it out for them.

We're going to go through them in the big book. This is what we're going to do. Um yes, you have to pay the money back.

I know that's horrible, but yes, you're going to have to um Yes, you're going to have to work with others. Yes, I know. Busy, busy.

Yeah, I get it. Um you know, but I lay it out to them and that's what we do. Um you know, but if if they if we always say as well in this in Minneapolis is that you don't take your problems to a meeting, you take the solution to the meeting.

But so if a sponsor is only there to take you through the steps and you can't take your problems to the meeting, then who are you supposed to take your problems to? And that's the question I always ask. Now Kathleen, when she was taking me through the steps, I was calling her all the time because I was newly sober in a relationship with somebody newly sober and we're nuts.

And I was calling her on a regular basis like I don't know what I should do. I I we're breaking up again, you know, on and on and on. And she was always there to love me and to say lovingly say, Kelly, you know, 2218's, you know, half an hour away.

Why don't you go there and see if there's someone you can help? You know, or hey, I'm speaking at so and so tonight. Why don't you come along or whatever.

you know, she was always very good at um you know, getting me out of what I was in and uh and showing me a way out and uh you know, and that's what I do for my women. You know, they call me, they've got a problem. I might not have the answer, but I may know somebody who does.

Like right now, I have a a lady who's going through a custody battle. I don't have kids. I have no clue what that's all about, but I sponsored another woman that does.

And so I said, "You know what? I know the perfect person for you to call." And she did, you know, and she got that experience because that's all we have to share is our experience. And uh and thank goodness I've been crazy enough in sobriety to have a lot of experience with certain things.

Um so, you know, it it it's helped out a lot and I'm so blessed with that. Um I just want to kind of finish up. There's a story Dustin was talking about how you know we this guy could pull me out of the ditch.

He knew the way out of the ditch. And there's a parable that I heard. I don't remember from who, but uh they say that, you know, there's this guy stuck in a well.

And uh he's down in the well and he's yelling, "Help me. Help me." And a doctor comes by and he's like, "Oh, you're stuck in the well." He's like, "Yeah, help me." And the guy writes something on a little pad of paper, throws it down there, you know, walks away. And uh so the guy's like, "Oh, jeepers, you know, help me.

Help me." And a preacher comes up and looks down. He's like, "Oh, you're down in the well?" "Yeah, help me." And the guy says, "Okay, I'll pray for you." And walks away. And uh you know, so he's still stuck down in the well and he's yelling, "Help me.

Help me." And another guy comes along and he's like, "Oh, you're down in a well." And he jumps in. Guy's like, "What'd you do that for? Now we're both stuck in the well." He said, "But I know the way out." And that's our job in sponsorship.

We know the way out because we're sitting here today and there's somebody that's not sitting in here today and we can show them the way out and that's our only job and it's our primary purpose and uh you know we come in here and all we want is a purpose in life and then God gives it to us and we say well not that you know God I have a life hello you know but um but it's it's far far far beyond what I ever could have imagined my life to be and uh and working with others and you know and like Dustin said seeing the light come on in their eyes you know seeing them actually get better seeing them get excited seeing them want it like calling me up and being like you wouldn't believe the amends I made to my probation officer today it's like you know I mean how cool how cool is that um so yeah that's all I got thanks tough act to follow. Question out of the pamphlet, uh, seeking a sponsor, how does it help? You know, I, uh, I went through a very militant phase where if it wasn't in the big book, it wasn't.

Plain and simple. if it's not in the book, it's not it's not our program. Thank you for your opinion.

And I would just walk away. And uh luckily through sponsorship, I learned that there's a there's a program of of recovery which is in the book. And there's there's a fellowship and there's there's a lot of things that that uh I could use help with besides the obsession to drink and and to learn how to um not only get sober, which I think is is the most important thing.

It's real hard to work on uh being a better person if you're drunk. It's my experience. It's real hard uh to care about how your character defects are affecting other people if you're drunk.

I mean, I just didn't care when I was drinking. I just, you know, you better get out of the way. That's just the way I drank.

That's the way I lived was uh you're you better get out of the way because you're going to probably get hurt and I'll take what I can from you and then when there's nothing left, get out. Having a sponsor initially working the 12 steps. I I personally do my fistep with my sponsor.

I I've I've gotten turned on to the idea of multiple fist steps and uh as well as taking it to a sponsor, I've taken it to friends. I mean, I've done that whole deal. But my sponsor knows what's going on because I share my inventory with them.

That's a not necessary, I suppose. I've done it with chaplain. I've done it with whatever.

But I share my fistep with my sponsor because as we get down the road and I start doing 10 and 11 and I start getting out living life, I'm going to bump into people still because I'm selfish, self-centered by nature. I It's not that I'm going to do it on purpose. I'm just I'm so selfish.

I just can't I can't see you. I don't see how I'm affecting you when I want what I want. and having a sponsor to do that 10step with and to to call up and go, you know, I was doing this and uh I I went off on this guy in a meeting.

I had a lot of that because I was so hurt that I was told to do something in AA and it would keep me sober and it didn't keep me sober. Just, you know, just going to meetings didn't work for me. It worked for a time, but eventually the internal condition got so bad that I would just sit in meetings and want to die.

I would just sit in meetings and want to drink. And so when I come back and I have the experience out of the book, I got like most drunks, you know, when they get on something, I got real righteous, real self-righteous and real I I would bash people over the head with the big book. And I went through that phase and to have a sponsor to like kind of guide me towards, you know, that well, you know, it also says in the book, Dustin, love and tolerance of others is our code.

You know, like there's a theory. Didn't didn't see that part. You ever noticed that?

We like the things that uh justify our belief systems that are in the big book, but the things that go against what we want to do or what we think is right to do, we like to just kind of pretend that doesn't exist. You know, to have a sponsor to start get me involved with this whole idea that if it's not in the big book, it's not was flawed if I was looking at it so militantly. But if I look at the big book and I see that they tell me to go seek out other spiritual teachers, when I see that it tells me to go see a psychiatrist if I need one, when I start to see that it's it's it's not about being rigid, it's about becoming a whole person and whole people I believe are flexible and and allow God to give them intuitive thoughts and to move down the road.

And I I have the chances of me offending you on purpose today are slim to none. You may be offended by something Kelly or I says today, but it was through sponsorship that the edges started to get rounded off. And I'm not going to intentionally offend anybody.

See the difference to start working with motives and intentions and and what am I trying to get? Where am I self-seeking? Where am I driven by fear?

Where am I driven by self-pity? Where is it still selfishness, self-centerness? I need a sponsor to help me do that.

You know, it was a sponsor who uh taught me about the 12th step, not because of what the book said, you know, it says and practice these principles in all your affairs. A sponsor who said, you know, Dustin, yeah, I know you needed to get sober. Aa had to be the most important thing in your life for a while.

But you know what, bud? Practicing these principles, working a program includes paying child support and showing up for your kids when you said you were going to show up. It includes being a part of their lives or why did God get you sober?

I I know guys right now that work with sponsor seven to 10 guys at a time every week and they run them through the mill. Just take them through the book, take them through the book, take them through the book. And their kids haven't seen them since they got sober.

I don't think that's what the deal was here. The deal was I was supposed to reenter the mainstream of life and start living up to my other responsibilities. Start being a better husband.

Got remarried. nightmare to be in a relationship with. I am to start being a husband worth having.

To start being a friend that you would like to call your friend, to start, you know, being a human being, you know what I'm saying instead of an animal that just runs through life scratching and itching and taking what it wants. And it was through that that it really has helped. The other thing is is to have a person to bounce all my great ideas off of because I get a lot of them.

I could sit in a meeting and have 500 great ideas, you know, phenomenal ideas. And when I bounce him off a sponsor, he goes, "You do know you're insane, right?" Like, that's probably, you know, I went through a phase a couple months ago, I had stopped smoking. And uh like two and a half months off of it, and I determined that it was best that I go get healthy, right?

I put on some weight since I got sober. And I'm going to pretty much leave AA except for maybe a couple meetings a week. and uh and I'm not going to, you know, I'm not really going to like raise my hand too high for sponsorship and uh we're going to go get healthy and we went and bought mountain bikes and we went and did all this and we were just going to go become health nuts, you know, which I have no interest to be, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

And uh you know, as a sponsor, it was like, don't you think that's a little extreme? You know, I go from one day like smoking cigarettes and eating donuts and the next day I'm out, you know, buying bikes and, you know, getting ready to hike the Himalayas. you know, I I'm just I'm enthusiastic.

I'm driven like that. So, sponsorship has also turned into an accountability thing for me. You know, it's it there's a lot of people that got sponsors, but not a lot of people that are sponsored.

You know, to have someone that I actually will let into my life to give me ideas contrary to my own belief system because my mind tells me it's a great idea. And prior to Alcoholics Anonymous, I see no reason to check it with you because I'm smarter than all of you. You know, I know.

And I never I just run with every idea that comes into my head. Sponsorship has allowed me to have someone in my life who knows what it's like to be in a fantasy land most of your life and to kind of, you know, point out reality and say like, you know, we may want to scale her back a bit. You know, don't go taking out a loan for the Trek bikes.

All right? Like just just, you know, you want to get a bike, you want to do that's cool, but to talk about these things to get my good ideas out. You know, sponsoring others has been great because I get to watch my great ideas play out in other people.

It's kind of a cold way to look at it, but I get to watch people that go, "Well, I'm doing it anyway." And I go, "Well, have fun." And I watch them go do it and I watch the pain and I watch the misery. And sometimes if I'm having a good week, I may actually pay attention to it, you know, and go, "I don't really want to do that." I get to watch the fresh wave of insanity that washes up on our beach every single day. and I get to get to partake in that deal.

Having a sponsor, you know, the deal is is I'm not afraid when I sit down with a new man. I'm not terrified. I'm not nervous about if I can do the job because I got a sponsor that I stay in regular contact with.

I don't have a sponsor that tells me to call him every day at a certain time and show up. And obviously, I'm not wearing a tie today. I have a sponsor who shows me by way of his actions how to live.

So, I'm more comfortable showing a newcomer by way of my actions how we do this deal, you know, and that's it. It's helped. I'm not worried because this is coming straight down the chain.

How I was taught to do AA. I try to show the guys that ask me for help how to do AA. And I've had a lot of great teachers and I have a lot of spiritual adviserss.

And I got people from from New Jersey to California, from northern Minnesota to the tip of Texas that are spiritual adviserss in my life. And these men also know my stuff and I've allowed them into my life. But I got one sponsor, one sponsor that that kind of hears my good ideas before I go out and do them, you know.

So pass it on to Kelly. Okay. How does it help?

Um, I think in the beginning sponsorship helped is because it was somebody who who knew the way. It was somebody who knew the way out of the well, you know, and and that's what I needed. Um, my first sponsor obviously did not help.

I've had a few sponsors, by the way. Um, my second sponsor though, Kathleen, she uh she took me through the book. Um, the second time, uh, she helped me.

She, you know, I agree. I I did my fistep with my sponsor. She knew all my junk.

Um, if I started getting goofy, she was there to call me on it. You know, if I called her up and I was like, "Well, Dustin did this and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah." And she's like, "Kelly, is this you being manipulative?" I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Kelly, are you sure you're telling me the truth?

No. You know, or hey, where were you for the meeting last night? Oh, well, you know, oh, so you're being lazy.

Okay. You know, she was very good at calling me on my crap and uh and keeping me on track and that it was vital at that time. Uh Dustin said accountability.

It was huge for me to be kept accountable. Um because I am a loner. I want to sit in my house.

I want to sit on my couch, watch chickflicks over and over and over and over again uh until my husband comes home and then we're going to go to bed early and I'll do this all over again. And this is what I'll do. Even today, I will sit in my house for days on end, not talk to a single soul and be perfectly fine with that.

Uh but she didn't allow me to do that unfortunately. Um and she kept me accountable and she kept me on track. Um today I have a sponsor who uh teaches me everything I need to know about the three legacies.

Um I go to her uh you know I go to her house, I sit on her couch and she smokes cigarettes. She's 84 years old and she's just, you know, a whip and uh, you know, so she'll sit there and smoke cigarettes and just, you know, spouted off on the mouth. And I just listen because it's just amazing what this woman knows.

She knows everything about anything. And, uh, you know, she's been living this way of life for the last 40 years. Um, and I just listen.

You know, she's there to teach me and I I I need to be taught. you know, there's lots of things that I don't know. Um, you know, I spent the last two years in recovery, in the recovery side of the triangle, and that's all I did.

It was, you know, uh, treatment centers and detoxes and, um, you know, working with others and meetings and, you know, it was all that, you know, and, uh, I had completely forgotten that there's a whole other part of this deal that, uh, that I don't know anything about that keeps us running. And I completely took that for granted. Uh the first time I sat down with her, she said, "Uh, when you say you're a member of AA, do you know what that means?" And I was like, "I have what do you mean?" I, you know, I was like just flabbergasted.

And she just started talking and I sat there for like three hours going, "Oh my gosh, this woman knows more than anybody I've ever met in my life." And uh, you know, and it was just so cool. And and I'm I'm so grateful that God keeps me open-minded, you know, because there's so many prejudices that I still want to have and there's so many uh, you know, things that I want to be right about and this is the right way. This is the only way.

You know, this is all we need to do. These people are doing it wrong, whatever. And and like Dustin says, you know, a sponsor is very good for uh, you know, roping you back in.

uh and she keeps me teachable and she teaches me a lot. Um on a side note, I want to tell you that uh neither Dustin nor I went to our sponsors about this health nut thing and uh we have mountain bikes in our closet right now and we have like four pairs of tennis shoes and all these workout clothes and none of them get used. So uh you know good note there.

Um but uh but they do I mean sponsors are very very helpful to keep you online and I know that you know a lot of times when my women run from me um is when I keep them accountable. You know I say oh you weren't at the meeting tonight. Oh yeah.

You know I thought I'd go work out instead. Oh great. That sounds good.

Glad glad you're getting fit. That's wonderful. Uh why weren't you at the meeting tonight?

Oh I wanted to go work out instead. Oh, well, you're unemployed. Um, you couldn't work out earlier today, you know, and and I keep them accountable.

I, you know, I was accountable when I got here. I was shown how to be accountable. I was kept accountable.

And I I honestly believe that that's the only way I survived this deal. If I wouldn't have been kept accountable, I would have I'd still be sitting in my house on my couch, front of the TV, probably with a bottle of vodka, you know, but it was it was vital to me. Um, and so yeah, that's all I have.

Thanks. how to choose a sponsor in my uh first and second run into our fellowship. Uh the way that I chose a sponsor was I need someone I can relate to.

I need someone that I can relate to. And um you know when I I was completely insane and I found someone that I could relate to and uh we would sit at restaurants and drink coffee and uh kind of be insane together. You know what I look for today?

Because I have uh by way of circumstance and by way of uh personal decision have changed sponsors couple times in the last two and a half years. What I look for originally was someone who could show me how to work the steps and do the real deal. And I had a guy who used to pound the podiums and and used to go all over the place and really, you know, 12 steps and and was real uh real powerful to listen to.

Um but I found it lacking because there wasn't uh it's hard for me to talk about. There wasn't a lot of depth to it. When I got close, what I seen was there wasn't a lot of depth to it.

And unfortunately, the the man who originally carried the message to me didn't stay sober this time. He just didn't. And it was a real brutal thing to watch because our fellowship picked him apart because he had been pounding the podiums and doing that.

And and we're we're real ugly sometimes when people make mistakes in Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, we're not I had a sponsor used to say to me, "If you're expecting AA to be a bunch of healthy people, you need to reconsider your thoughts. We're not always the nicest, but the deal is is that what I look for in a sponsor is someone who is engaged in the whole package.

Kind of talked about this already, but someone who's going to eat the whole meal so that they can show me how to do that. I There's so so much to Alcoholics Anonymous. So much more than I thought there was even a year and a half ago.

There's so much to this deal. And a lot of our members, if you look around, pick and choose what they can use and and throw the rest out. You know, what do I need to know about the traditions for?

Well, because our our group may fall apart if we don't pay attention to them. Well, why do I need to know anything about general service? That's for those people.

Well, because uh you know, if those people, which is all of us, don't take care of our fellowship, we may not be here for my kids. We may not be here in a couple generations. And people will say stuff like, "Aa is not going anywhere." Really, look at some of the other organizations that have passed off the scene at one time percentage-wise.

You know, I'm not too into the whole numbers and stuff, but the Washingtonians was growing quicker than AA ever has, and they just disappeared. no one knows about him anymore, you know. So, so what I look for in a sponsor is someone who's going to eat the whole meal.

Someone who believes in the circle and the triangle. I know we've taken it off our literature for for whatever reasons, but someone that believes that if we work and rework the 12 steps if if we if we become a part of the fellowship, bring our body to the meetings, get involved in our in our home groups, attend regular meetings regularly, try to apply the traditions not only within our group but also in our lives because they're great principles and someone who knows what it means to be of service. you know, that's hard to find.

You know, part of the thing that that I've I've done in in my life is I couldn't for a while find the type of sponsor that I've wanted. You know, I'm greedy. I want, you know, Mr.

AA, like the guy that's got all the answers. I want the perfect sponsor. And what I realize is that's probably not feasible.

And it's not it's not fair to the the guys that sponsor me to expect them to have all the answers. They don't. We're supposed to go to the source of power, not to the guy who carried the equation to get to that power, i.e.

the big book, you know. So, I tried I've started to try to become the sponsor I would like to have. I've tried to be a better sponsor uh than I used to be on a regular basis and try to uh show by way of example how we can do this deal.

And what's happened is someone came into my life who's got the light on in his eyes. I mean, this guy is just on fire. He he uh he is so strong that he doesn't he doesn't have to do anything but give you a hug and smile.

I mean, he doesn't slam anything down my throat. It's none of that stuff. It's none of that kind of ego-driven AA.

It's very calming. It's very back to basics, back to the principles of this program, back to what does the book say? What does AA comes of age say?

you know, what what are we doing here? So, I try to choose someone that's got the light on in their eyes, a man who looks like he has a real answer. You know, there's a there's a chunk on uh on page 18 uh right before what I read earlier that says, "But the ex-prom drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours.

Until such an understanding is reached, little or nothing can be accomplished." That's what I've got today as a sponsor. I've got someone who who's who's won my entire confidence. I don't think he's perfect.

I I I don't think that he's, you know, someday it'll be him and and Bob up on the wall and they're going to have Jeff's face right in the middle. I don't think that's going to happen. But what I have is a guy who's been dedicated to Alcoholics Anonymous over a considerable period of time and uh who's who's really doing this deal in his life.

You notice I didn't say anything about how much time I look for because it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. The guy that carried the message to me was two years sober.

There's guys that I sponsor that are a year sober who I if my little brother called me tonight and said, "I need a sponsor. I need to get into this deal." I would put them in their direction before I would put him in the hands of some of the guys I know with 20, 30 years of sobriety. Not because the guy with the year is somehow better because he knows the book or anything like that, but because he's close enough to the fire to know how to get out, you know, it's a pretty fresh experience and he knows what he needs to do.

So I when I look for a sponsor, I know I look for someone that that has a working knowledge of our program and our principles and the 12 steps and the 12 traditions and the 12 concepts. Someone that's doing the deal. I you know if we waited if you had to have a year to sponsor when we started none of us would be here.

Bill had six months when he carried the message to Bob. They had a couple of weeks when they carried the message to Bill D. There was guys with under a year of sobriety starting AA in different states and and people can disagree with that all they want in this fellowship but that's the history that there was guys who would get sober and and go somewhere else.

There was guys who'd get the book and just do what the book said and then they would start a in their community and wait for AA members to come along, you know, and some of those areas are filled with the most vibrant sobriety and alcoholic synonyms. So, you know, time I don't know. I don't know.

You know, I was pushed out the door 60 days sober, carrying the message to others, doing a horrible job of it, you know, but I stayed sober and I learned how to more efficiently transmit the message that was transmitted to me, you know. So, that's kind of what I look for. Um, as you know, when I first chose my sponsor, my first sponsor, it was because she was the only woman in the room.

Uh, and you know, I was told get a sponsor, so I did. Um, but when I met Kathleen, you know, it was it was amazing what that woman was so excited about. Like, I just I could not believe how excited she was about AA.

And I tell you what, she was a little over a year sober. It was like no wonder she was so excited. She hadn't gotten discouraged yet, you know, like she was just on fire for the whole thing.

She loved Alcoholics Anonymous. She loved Alcoholics. She loved everything about it.

Um and uh and she knew the book and she was going to commitments and uh you know she was sponsoring women and she was you know introducing herself and you know making herself available and that was huge. Um, uh, unfortunately, Kathleen, uh, you know, I I believe that a sponsor has to grow, um, in in order for you to continue to work with them, you know, and and I was growing and Kathleen wasn't. Um, unfortunately, she had gotten, you know, a really great job that took her overseas and, you know, she stayed right where she was at.

And uh and I it it was almost to the point where I had nothing more to learn. I had nothing more to learn from her. I you know she gave me all she had and and I am so so so grateful for that.

Uh we're still very very good friends to this day. If you know if I could tell her to quit her job and just sponsor me that I would. She was just a wonderful lady.

Um, but so, you know, I was on the lookout for a new sponsor and I was praying for God to put a woman in my life uh to sponsor me and I was going to all these meetings and I I was looking for a, you know, a new sponsor, somebody to teach me, somebody who had something to teach me. Um, and uh, it was difficult. I tell you what, I went uh quite a while without without a sponsor.

I went a couple months without a sponsor. Uh because my old one was overseas all the time and and I didn't have anyone to keep me accountable. Um and so I started telling people, I'm looking for a new sponsor.

I'm looking for a new sponsor. And uh and I continued to pray for God to, you know, put somebody in my life to give me a new teacher. And uh this young buck comes up to me.

He says, "I have the perfect woman for you." you know, and I had shared with them at one point that my vision in my head of a sponsor is some like, you know, old short cranky lady who's just like, you know, like this was my I don't know why this was my vision, but this was the vision that I had in my head. And he so he came up to me and he's like, I have the perfect woman for you. He says, will you go meet her?

I said, absolutely. Give me your number. Now, as a good alcoholic, I didn't call her for like three weeks.

Um, you know, I was just what we do. And, uh, I was terrified to meet somebody new. I was terrified to tell somebody again about my whole life and all my deep dark dark secrets.

And, and so I did not call her for like three weeks. And then finally, I was like organizing my bookshelf and her number just falls right out. And I'm just like, "Oh yeah, Esther, that's right.

Oh, maybe I should call her." you know, and so I I pick up the phone and I dial and I'm hoping the answering machine comes on, you know, uh but you know, she's old and she's retired, so she's home and she answers and she's like, "Who who are you? How do you know me?" Like, you know, she's just perfect. And she said, "Why don't you come over?

I you know, we'll see if you want me to sponsor you." And uh so I I go over there a couple days later and I sit down on her couch and like I said the first question she asked me was, "Do you know what it means to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous?" And I was so just amazed. I was so amazed with that very first question. I was like, "This woman has something to teach me." You know, this woman knows way more than I know.

And she says, "You need to read a Comes of Age. You already know about the big book. I don't need to read that to you.

I think you're pretty intelligent. You can do that on your own. Uh but you do need to know what you're a part of.

And uh from that moment on, it's just, you know, she continues to teach me and uh she continues to um keep me accountable and call me on my crap. And um one thing that she has done for me recently is uh you know, she she's made me aware of all three sides of the triangle. That's what Dustin said.

You know, I wasn't even looking for that in a sponsor. I w I was not I I knew very little about three sides of the triangle. I It's not what I was looking for.

But I put my trust in God and I said, "You find someone for me because I I'm having troubles here." And he gave me somebody who had all three sides of the triangle. And she talks a lot about uh you know, working the traditions in her life, not only in AA, but in her life. um you know and she's you know obviously in the general service structure she's a past delegate and you know and so she knows a lot about that and she says you know I was at the area elections um this last uh month or month ago and um you know I I call her afterwards and um you know she wants to know all about it and you know We talk about it and she teaches me and she says, "Well, this person's good for this and this person's good for that." And I mean, she just knows everything.

You know, I have a question about anything. All I have to do is call her and she knows, you know, it's just great. Um, but you know, I didn't really choose her, you know, so I don't know how to answer this question, how to choose a sponsor.

I'd say, you know, I'd tell my girls, you know, if they were looking for somebody new to move on to to choose somebody who knows the way. Um, you know, but I didn't choose my sponsor. My sponsor chose me.

You know, she was brought to me and I'm I'm grateful for that. But, uh, thank you Well, uh, once again, my name is Dustin Barnes. I'm an alcoholic >> and, uh, we're going to pick right back up here, kind of where we left off.

Uh, it was good food. I am, uh, ready for a nap after eating. So, um, we'll get back into this.

The next question out of the pamphlet is what to expect. This is a kind of a varying question. You know, take a look at what to expect, what not to expect.

You know, I kind of once again, I'm going to go back to the big book on on page 20. There's a there's a piece in here that talks about uh if you're an alcoholic who wants to get over it, you may already be asking, "What do I have to do?" It is the purpose of this book to answer such qu questions specifically. We shall tell you what we have done you know and that's that's what this really comes down to is uh you know I need to share with another where I'm at so that that person can give me guidance as far as their experience goes.

In the beginning, I needed someone who was going to take me back to the literature and say, "This is what it says in the book. This is how it says to work this step. This is exactly our specific precise instructions on how to do the action necessary." Because I was a guy, people would say, "Let go and let God." And I'm an atheist.

I'm an agnostic. How do you do that? You know, how do you just let go and let God?

I don't know how to do that. You know, the thing I found by a sponsor who would take me back to the book is my best example of how to let go and let God is, you know, why don't you try steps four through nine? I write an inventory.

I do a fifth step. I ask God to remove the character defects involved. I I piece together who got harmed by that conduct.

And then I go try to make things right. You know what? Some of the deepest resentments I ever had in my life were a direct result of of me being unwilling to look at my actions, of me being unwilling to look at where I had been wrong in that relationship.

And when I was finally confronted with the fact that I didn't have a part, not my part, but my mistakes, that I had I had some stuff to take a look at. What I found was a lot of the people I resented, I had done more to them than they had done to me. I really had I had harmed them more than they had harmed me.

I had been using that resentment to fuel all sorts sorts of poor behavior. I had continued to harm people and I couldn't stop thinking about it because I was still insisting it was their fault. So, when a sponsor got in front of me with a big book and said, "We're going to do this process," uh, I got free of it.

you know what to expect. You know, expecting anything out of an alcoholic's, you know, you're setting yourself up for therapy. You know, ask ask the family groups, but hopefully the person sitting in front of me is armed with a real answer.

Hopefully, the person sitting in front of me can can show me how to get from point A to point B. I've had sponsors that told me lots of stuff that wasn't in the big book. And I think that that stuff was necessary as well.

You know, when the speaker gets done, go shake their hand. It's respectful. You know, try not to cuss from the podium.

You know, there's a thought. I come in and I can't do anything but swear every other word. That's who I was.

And thank God that my sponsor didn't uh tell me I was a bad member of AA and that I was going to drink because I couldn't stop using the f- word, you know. Thank God I had a sponsor that said, "This is Alcoholics Anonymous." And we we try to be respectful. You know what to expect.

A, we should expect that we're dealing with another human being. See, the answers don't flow forth from my sponsor. If the man is connected to a spiritual way of life, the answers flow through my sponsor by him doing the work, by him getting involved, by him seeking God, by him getting involved in a spiritual program of action, getting involved in a spiritual way of life himself.

and then he can transmit to me something that he has because he has it. You know what not to expect is a therapist. My sponsor is not a therapist.

He uh he said, "You probably need to go see a therapist." I didn't get into story stuff and do all that because that's not what we were here to do. But what I can tell you is I had a high trauma, high impact childhood. That's just what I came from.

my sponsor was not in any sort of position to give me any direction out of his experience based on uh his life. And so he said, "Go see someone that can help you with that." And so, you know, no problem doing that. Go do that after two years of kicking and screaming.

You know, my my sponsor is not a legal adviser. You know, I've had guys that, "What do you think I should do about this?" Ain't got a clue, man. Call your PO, you know.

I I've had guys that'll come to me and say, you know, I'm looking at this charge. I'm going to face this. This is They hit me with a charge from before I got sober and uh what do you think I should do about it?

And all I can do, I've never been arrested. I can go to the big book and I can say, well, you know, the big book says that we ought to be willing to go to jail if necessary. Well, I don't think I need to do that.

Well, yeah. I don't know. How free do you want to be?

I guarantee you from my experience of being involved in the correction system that there's people that uh are incarcerated right now who are freer than people I know hanging out in the rooms of AA, you know. So, I don't know what does the book say? Go back to the book.

Go do that deal. My sponsor, the sponsors I've had are definitely not marriage counselors, you know. And and I used to get angry at them because I I'm having a horrible relationship based on my actions and I'm going to them asking for advice and they're giving me advice that uh you know I can't really blame them for because I was only telling them about 30% of what was really going on anyway.

And I'm I'm I'm tweaking the story to get them to tell me what I want to hear so that I can continue to act poorly and feel spiritually justified in doing so. You're being selfish, sweetheart. You need to write some inventory.

you know, the people that just say to me like, I don't know, what's the book say? What's the literature say? You know, I can't expect this flawed human being sitting in front of me to have all the answers as far as the sense of uh my life.

Some, you know, I've sat with Kelly's sponsor and just been blown away by the the stuff that she knows and points to the literature and all this. that that stuff's great, but what do I do when my kid won't behave? You know, my sponsor is is a guide to initially to recovery through work and then reworking the 12 steps and then you get into the other aspects of the fellowship, but starting to take these principles outside of these rooms, you know, and the sponsor I got today.

I don't know that it's an expectation, but I do know that it's true that being in his presence, sitting in his house makes me want to be a better father because he's a better father than I am. sitting in his house, being in his presence, meeting his family, doing that stuff. It makes me want to be a better husband.

It makes me want to be a better friend. I want what that man has, plain and simple. And I've gotten to the place where I've had to realize that that what I do to get sober and what I do to stay sober, uh, there's going to be some variance in that.

You know, there just is. that I have a I I found that underneath all the pomp and the calamity and the worship of other things, all the hatred, the resentment, the pain, the beneath all that stuff was a deep thirst for the power of God in my life. I am spiritually hungry and I hope that I don't lose that.

I really don't because it's been sponsors that didn't didn't impose on me their limits. They didn't impose on me while I'm here, you can't read that book without me. you can't do this.

I've had sponsors that said, "You know what? Why don't you take that same enthusiasm you had for drinking?" And boy, let me tell you, I had some enthusiasm for drinking. And why don't you put that into this way of life and see what happens?

Yes. Yes. We know you need balance, you know, get get confronted with a fourth step and I go, you know, I I really need to just I need to spend some more time with my kids.

Really? Really, I need balance at that point. No, I needed to pursue it with the desperation of a drowning man.

And the sponsors who have gotten in front of me and said yes, do that, do that, do that, do that, do that, are phenomenal guys. You know, I I don't I don't expect a sponsor to uh make a bunch of demands on me. They just don't.

You know, there there's this whole idea of never say no to an AA request. Guy was talking about it during the service talk. I uh I try not to I try not to, but I got kids.

Same deal. I have to show up in their lives. If I I have to have the affairs to practice the principles in.

You know what I'm saying? I I have to uh be where the action is. And where the action is for me is not hiding out in Alcoholics Anonymous.

It's living life and coming here and going to the meetings, but but realizing that I have a responsibility. You know, the what I expect from a sponsor is someone that's uh you know, doing the same thing. Maybe not the exact same thing.

I got I got sponsors that share with me what they did to get sober and I got sponsors that share with me what they do to stay sober. And uh you know coming into this next section after Kelly shares uh we'll kind of get into more of that stuff. Like the stuff I was taught is most of what we've been spending time with.

How I was brought up in Alcoholics Anonymous and uh and what I do with sponsorship now and and after Kelly shares here we're going to be getting into um kind of a a synthesis a combination of all that stuff and uh how I try to uh carry that into working with others. how I try to be of service to the guys that are sick enough to ask me to sponsor them because I mean if you're if you're going to spiritual help for someone in Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, you got to take a look at that. We're alcoholics and I some of the most spiritual people I know hide out in these rooms.

I don't mean hide out. I mean they're in Alcoholics Anonymous. So the guys that asked me to sponsor them, I'm kind of blown away sometimes.

you know, driving to work the other day. I got a beautiful job. I got a beautiful wife.

I got a beautiful uh relationship with my children. I got great friends in AA. I sponsor these guys.

And I for over the last couple weeks, I've been going through an experience when I when I even taste what's going on in my life, I get I start to weep because I was strapped down to a gurnie a few years ago, and now my life is so good. I can't believe it. Has there been trials?

Yeah. Yeah. But all in all, I ain't been strapped down to a gurnie in a long time.

I haven't been walked into a courtroom with shackles on in a long time. And uh I'm just truly blessed to be sponsored in Alcoholics Anonymous by people that love Alcoholics Anonymous, by people that really care. It's not just something they do, it's something they are.

They are an embodiment of the principles. And uh that's what I'm striving for. And uh that's it.

Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.