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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Hey everyone, I'm Ryan, an alcoholic >> and um drop this be the worst thing is flavored coffee. I don't want to seem ungrateful, but flavored coffee.

Anyway, uh it's good to be here. Thank Thank you for asking me to come up. I don't get out on Tuesday nights, so it's a rare year I actually come out.

And uh I'm alcoholic. My name is Brian. And uh I really don't know what I'm going to say, but I'll start off with this.

And my Friday is March 6th of 1993. The only interesting thing about that is I didn't get up that day to get sober. Um um I was on a three-month relapse after being sober for a year.

And it was like any other day. I was going to go to the dog track and then go smoke crack and drink all night. And uh somehow I got 12step back in the day and I haven't had a drink since or any other mind altering substance.

And uh and I I find that amazing. I find that really amazing because I'm a guy who could not drink or could not not drink in any situation in any institution in any surrounding. I'm a guy who drank in prison.

I drank in the youth center. I drank in rehabs. I drink in halfway houses.

You, wherever they put me, I would find a way to drink or I would drink. Um, and I haven't had a drink in almost uh 15 and a half years. So, I'm still baffled by that.

Um, it is good to be sober. It's good to be here. I I My home group is the It's in the Book Big Book meeting in Camden, Maine.

Though I will not live in Camden, Maine. I live in Union, Maine. You know where that's at.

It's in the middle of nowhere. Um, and I grew up on the West Coast. And I'm going to share with you the big book is really interesting.

It really tells you what to do. You know, I share what I was like, what happened to me, and what I'm like now. And I and I'm a guy when I first got sober and I I I come out of the big book and I got sober out of big book.

Uh I got really directed uh with some good directions. And I used to speak and I used to say things like I I would only talk about recovery. I wouldn't talk about where I come from.

I think I did a big disservice to people uh because most people um need to know that I'm a real alcoholic. They need to know I'm a real alcoholic. Um I uh I grew up in California.

I I I uh grew up in this town called Stockton, California. And I'm not going to take it all the way back to my childhood, so don't worry. I'm not going to do this for 3 hours.

So, but I did grow up in California. And I come from a family of I'm the youngest of four boys. And I and I come from a criminal background if that's anything interest anybody.

But it's the mindset of the environment I grew up in. And uh I was the youngest of the four and my uh brother died when he was seven, I was five. And so it was pretty much my two older brothers and me and I was surrounded with a lot of alcohol.

My mom was a barroom drunk and I remember there was things I used to say about my mom because she was I was a latch kid which you don't hear that very often anymore but basically I mean my parents worked and so when I came home from school it was just me and my older brothers and neighborhood kids. Um, and my mom used to come home and the only reason I'm saying this nothing but this isn't about my mom, trust me. But it's more about my mindset and the resolve I had to not become like her and how I went 10 times worse than her.

But my mom used to come home from work and she would slap us some food together if she did that and then she would bolt out the door to the barroom. And I used to sit around. I was torn.

Half of me liked it cuz then I could run the streets and do whatever I wanted. The other half was was mad because she would do that. And uh my dad would then go off to the bar and try to drag her home and it'd be a big battle or he would stay there with her all night.

Uh and sometimes she wouldn't come home till 3:00 or 4 in the morning and sometimes she wouldn't come home the next day. I had a huge resentment against my mom uh growing up about uh because I thought alcoholism I didn't even consider alcoholism. I just think she was making bad choices, you know, like she's just a bad mother cuz she would drink.

And I remember thinking I'll never get like her, you know. And when I was 10, 11 years old, I started uh I started smoking a lot of outside issues. Um and then I started drinking a lot of booze.

And I wasn't a daily drinker. I was just a guy who would steal booze from my mom's cabinet or um they'd have parties at the house and I would just get drunk and nobody would ever say anything. And and alcohol for me and and this was to be repeated all the way up to the age of 30 where I got sober.

Alcohol changed me. It changed everything about me. It changed how I felt about myself.

It changed how I felt about you. It changed how I felt about the life, the world, uh, everybody. It just totally transformed me and made everything okay.

But I would have never have put that. I just like to drink. I mean, I would have never have put those words together.

Alcohol for me, I just like to drink. I like to go out and hang out with the guys while my mom and dad are out partying. And we would often go out to the fields and we would just drink and get drunk and then throw rocks through windows and do kids stuff, you know.

Um, there was not a lot of of problems with my drinking. My mom basically her mantra was when I was growing up in high school, it was like, "So, what are you doing tonight?" I said, "Oh, I'm going to a party. Going to a keg party." "Oh, there going to be booze?" I said, "Yeah, hence the keg, mom.

That's the whole point of that." And she would say, "Well, if you um if you get drunk, just sleep in your car." And so, when you're a 16-year-old kid, 17-y old kid, you got the green light to just get trashed and then sleep in the car. That's what I would do. And and the only thing significant about my drinking as I started to grow up is it started to get where I would drink on the weekends and I would have fun, you know, like a football game.

We go out to these big keg parties out in the desert. This is in Tucson, Arizona. I'm jumping all over the place, so just bear with me.

And uh the only thing that I could see that I could identify that maybe I had a problem with booze was I would never leave if there was a keg party going on. I would never leave about a 15t circle of the keg. Like I wouldn't go I wouldn't go without eyesight and care, you know, even if I had to go to the bathroom, you know, we'd just turn around and go and and I would never leave the party while there was still booze there.

I was never one of those guys who would say, "Hey, we're see you later. I got to go to work tomorrow." You know, like guys would leave at 11, 12:00 at night and I was always baffled by that. I like why would you want to go, you know?

Like there's still booze here. We still got stuff happening. Um and then I would drink till it was empty and then I would crawl in my car and then wake up 6:00 the next morning and drive home.

And I didn't think that was a problem. In fact, I thought that was kind of cool. I thought that was all right.

You know, uh everything between 10 and 18 was kind of one of those, you know, I went to the youth center, uh ran away from home, stole a boat, uh got arrested, did some B&E, minor stuff, you know, stuff that, you know, lots of kids probably weren't doing, but I did. And um and nothing was really like, you could have never have convinced me at the age 18 I was alcoholic. You never would have done never would have done it.

you know, I was uh I was having fun. You know, I graduated in 1980, which so you know, I'm 46 years old, which is another thing that confuses me that I'm actually I still think I'm like in my 20s. I don't know what's up with that.

But I'm 46 and uh my wife would say 46 and a half, but I'm 46. And so when I graduated 1980, uh and this is when this is when and my drinking was getting it was getting progressively worse. You know, it was getting to where I would want to drink.

It was getting where sometimes when I would uh I used to always pride myself on having a job, right? I got a job. Uh you know, and my whole purpose for having a job was twofold.

One is I would it's a good place to steal money. I never worked at any job that I had to steal anything from. So I kept me in weed and it kept me in drinking money.

And two, I always worked in restaurants where we could steal booze. >> Um so that was kind of my thing and put gas in my car. It wasn't like I wanted to further my career washing dishes at the uh you know tanky guest ranch is where I worked a lot at it was like an old dude ranch out in Tucson.

I stole a lot of booze from that place and uh stole a lot of steaks and had a lot of fun. Uh and I and I started to do things like started to drinking, you know, 17 18 years old, started drinking on the job. Um not thinking it's not even thinking that's a problem, thinking that everybody does that.

Um but I could identify any of that. You know, in fact, even when I got sober in in ' 93, when I started to go through the steps, I'd been an AA for a year before that, but when I got sober then, I remember a guy taking me through the steps and he started to explain alcoholism. It I was an A for a year and did not know what an alcoholic was.

But I said I was alcoholic. And you know, you guys didn't do it here, but Tucson and I know a lot of meetings where everybody goes around the room and says they're alcoholic. I said that for a year, never believed it once.

And the only reason I did it was because every other duck was quacking in the room. And so when it came to me, I quacked like everybody else. And but the truth is in my heart of hearts, I didn't believe I was alcoholic, you know.

Um, and so it was baffling to me when I started to understand that, you know, I got a problem with alcohol and and I didn't learn that till I was 30. And so when I graduated in 1980, I made this decision. I I had lots of times in my life where I could have gone left or right.

And I started I always went right and it was always wrong. I always went right thinking that was the right way to go. And I made a decision.

They're saying, "Well, you should go to college." And uh you know, if you're me and and I came from a school, and this is in Tucson, Arizona, that had 2,000 students. It was a big school. There was over 500 students in my graduating class.

And I was about 470 down the line, you know, like I was on the back end. I was barely graduated, like getting kicked out all the time. And so when they said, "You should go to college," it was like, "Yeah, that's not an option for me." And so a lot of my friends went this way and a lot of my, you know, most of them were my pot smoking buddies and my drinking buddies.

We kind of went this way and we all got four of us moved into a house together. And uh 1980, I'll never forget the June of 1980. I graduated June and about 2 weeks after graduation, I moved out of my parents house and I started painting houses and um and doing what guys do.

You know, you work. This is we're working. You know, I'm working 8 hours a day.

We're all working construction. They're like masons and painters and carpenters and we're, you know, we we work all day. We come home and we all come home with booze.

We start drinking and then we go off to the bar. We go play pool or we have a party at our house and it's not it's not a lot of problems. It's it's not a big problem.

You know, I I No, nobody I knew was going to rehab in 1980 1981. No, no one I was, you know, um people would not come around anymore. That was kind of weird.

People would all a sudden I'd stop seeing people and we wonder what happened. We didn't know they were going to rehab. So, I just was never spoken.

AA I never heard of AA until I went to prison, you know, and that was only cuz they announced it over the PA system. It wasn't cuz I went into the AA meeting. It was just because they announced it and then I'd look at all the people going to the A meet and then judge them, you know, cuz So, what happened for me and drugs were part of my story.

This is an AA meet. I'm going to be real respectful of of the of the traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous. I cannot tell my story without telling what happened because in 1980 1981 though I was become a daily drinker and it was not like I woke up in the morning and drank.

I used to say well I don't drink in the morning but I get up in the morning and I get baked. You know what I mean? I'm like getting the bong out and I'm getting baked before I you know before I eat anything before I do anything I'm getting slanted, you know?

And then and then I go to work and then I work all day and then at lunchtime I get baked again and then around 3:00 or 4 I start drinking. And so my measuring stick was I don't drink in the morning. And we had a few friends who were drinking in the morning like man that's messed up.

If I start drinking in the morning you know I got you got problem if you're drinking in the morning. But I would start thinking about drinking around lunchtime and I would be thinking about where I'm going to go that night, what I'm going to do. And in Tucson it's really cool.

They have drive-through liquor stores which I think is really impressive. And so you would I would come off the job site and then go to the drive through liquor store and I'd get a 12-pack of Budweiser and 216 ounces in the bag and then that would be the 216 for the ride home and then I'd start drinking. But once I got three or four into my into my into my 12-pack or whatever I was buying that night, uh depending on my finances, I would immediately start counting.

I was the type of guy who I would see how many people were in the house, who was over that night, how much booze was around, and I would already calculate whether we're going to have enough or not. And then I would either bull go to liquor store and then stash it or I would go to a club and drink, you know, whatever. I would just go somewhere and drink where I could get my fill because I knew once I started drinking, I was not a guy who was drinking three or four beers and then going to bed.

That's just not who I am. You know, I'm drinking till I pass out. That's the story of my life.

Uh but I'm not alcoholic. I just like to have fun, you know. I mean, that's just having fun.

That's what you do. And I started to get involved in this um Tucson was what they call cocaine alley. It was like 30 mi from from uh Mexico through the interstate.

It was it was they called it cocaine alley cuz they brought all this stuff up through and it was really cheap. And I went to the dog track one night and I'd been dabbling in in that substance. You know what we call outside issue in AA.

Uh but I went to the dog track one night and I won a lot of money, me and my buddy. And we went to this guy's house and instead of um snorting it, this outside issue, we started to smoke it. And this is pretty crack for all you guys.

And uh you have to label that cuz this is back in 1981 82. And uh and I got involved in that in a really deep way. And now you understand I'm a I I I have by nature a mind that always looks for shortcuts and always tries to get, you know, the easy way out.

And I'm also a guy uh who, for a lack of a better word, I have a criminal mind. And so I'm always looking for the edge. And what I realized is the habit I was getting was I I couldn't support that of my own financial nature.

When you're making seven bucks an hour painting houses and you're starting to smoke what I was smoking, couldn't do it. So I started to deal drugs. And um and the and the thing with me is I love booze.

I love I love the feeling of booze. But also, you know, when you start to get around 11, 12 o'clock, you've been drinking a lot, you start to get a little tired. So, I love this uh other stuff that would just actually catapult me to the rest of the day, rest of the evening.

Uh but then I realized I can't make enough money, you know, I couldn't handle this. So, I started dealing drugs. And I'm a guy, this is if you're a drug dealer, you'll know what this means.

If you're dealing the substance you're smoking, it's a problem. And if you're good like I am, which is, you know, I don't have a lot of money to go get. So, I would go get these ounces from these guys.

I say, "Hey, can you give me an ounce?" And they give me an ounce and I I'll get you back in a week. You know, they give me an ounce. They trusted me.

I'm a nice guy. Look at me. Come on.

You would give me your wallet in a heartbeat. And then I would I would start to slang little nickel and dime, you know, quarter g. Then I'd come back with about $1,500, $500 short.

And I would say, "Hey, look, here's this and uh I got the other 500 front ended and I'm going to get that to you next week." And I can get another one. And then I started piling this up. And then after about 6 months to about a year of this um I started going to other dealers and then pretty soon after about a year and a half my name starts getting slammed all over town and I'm you know now I'm getting to a place where uh people actually want their money back which you know I understand that but I thought they were being inconsiderate cuz you know this is a business venture just have a little patience please and uh the whole time I'm guy I'm living such a double life nobody knows what's going on.

Nobody knows. My my fiance doesn't know. My roommates don't know.

Nobody knows how deep I'm getting. Nobody. And uh I was 21 and I was in a place and I'm not a guy who I've never been I know some people are like this really depressed.

They get you know I'm not a guy who would would go into deep depression. I mean I I did used to like to uh listen to the record at the end of Fitzgerald and then you know throw the lights off and think about my funeral but but I wasn't really a depressed kind of guy. And uh I was like and I was sitting around one night with this guy named Dave Dave Kerr and um and him and I were like running partners.

He was my road dog. We ran together. We worked together.

We drank together. We smoked together. And um and we were just everybody was out partying and I didn't have anything.

I didn't have anything. I had no money. Everybody's out the club.

I had no I couldn't get any this outside issue that I like to smoke and I couldn't get anything and I and I couldn't get any booze. And we're sitting around and he's like, um, he's like, "Hey, um, this sucks." And I go, "Yeah, man. This really sucks." And so I came up with a plan.

And the plan for me and and and Dave was the type of guy. Dave wasn't a leader. I was a leader.

Which is always weird cuz I'm like 5' one. I shouldn't be leading anything. And I get and I get really stupid thoughts like, "So my thought this night was, hey, we could go rob the Kentucky Fried Chicken." That was the plan, you know?

And he's like, "The never committed a crime in his life. I mean, I've been to the youth center. I've done stuff.

But he had never even thought about that. I said, "Look, I got some pistols and I got ski masks and some rope. We go down to find chicken.

Cut these guys up. Boom. Bang.

We'll take the safe. We're good to go." And I I've been there late night. There's There's like a week crew.

It's like three people, two girls, and some goofy guy. We can do this. So, we, you know, it was like it was Oh, back in black AC/DC had just come out, you know.

So, we were jamming over there. We like I used to have long hair and wear these big bandanas, you know, three hours, you know, and I would like we were jamming, you know, like and uh we're like, "Yeah, we're doing this. We're taking this down." We went in there.

We We didn't do it. We ended up finding a poopish meal. I had to.

And I remember thinking, "Man, this sucks." You know, and we just we were like, and Dave was one of those. Dave was a bummer. you know, he used to bum me out all the time.

I said, "Dude, you're buming me out, man." Like, because he was one of those guys who would go into depression and uh anyway, I dropped him off and I said, "I'll see you tomorrow." You know, I usually picked him up for work and but I didn't I didn't go home, you know. I went home. You know what I did?

I drove home and I I I got a piece of hose and I cut off a piece of hose. I got a roll of duct tape. I threw it in my roommate's car cuz that's what I was going to rob this place with.

And I drove out of the desert. And uh and the thought of suicide had never come in my eye. And I had never even thought about that.

It wasn't a fad like it is now. People doing it. I wasn't even I never thought about it.

I didn't know anybody. Never really even talked about it. But that night I was so hopeless and I was so desperate and I was so like just empty and dead inside that I was going to check out.

And it was not one of those cut my wrist, run to my roommate's room and say, "Look, I'm, you know, take me off." It was none of that. And it was like I'm driving out of the desert and I'm out in the middle of nowhere and I get out of the car and I put the hose in, I tape it up and I get in the car and I start pumping fumes and uh and I just don't see any hope. See, this is 21 years of age.

21 I was. That's why when guys come in 18, 17, 16, I don't even question it. You know what?

Because at 21, I was so hopeless, you know, and if somebody would have told me, oh, you know, just suck up. That wasn't I was dead inside at 21. And I didn't get sober nine years later and I started to pump the fumes and uh and I got really close to dying that night.

I got really groggy and I started to get nauseous. I started to not out and I was writing letters and and and this is the type of son I was so you understand how big this moment was. I was the type of son that when my mom and dad questioned my drinking a couple years earlier, three years earlier, they' said, "Uh, me and dad want to talk to you." And they said, "You know, we we're concerned about your drinking." Well, I should just stop going to my parents house.

That was my solution. Like, okay, I'll check into that. And then I just wouldn't go home.

You know, I lived a mile from my mom. I had seen her except on Christmas, Thanksgiving, my birthday, maybe her birthday. Uh, and the four times, five times a year, I'd go see my mom.

I lived a mile from her, right? That's the type of son I was, right? And so here I am writing this letter and I was writing this letter to my mom and and I don't know, you know, this was definitely a God thing for me because at that moment at that time I had this overwhelming thought of how much that would destroy my mom cuz she had already buried one of her boys and and I don't know why that selfless thought came into my heart that at that moment I can't do that to my mom.

It wasn't like I had any more hope. It wasn't like I had a plan. It wasn't like things will get okay.

I I still think it was going to be crappy, but at that moment I thought, man, I can't do that to my mom. I love my mom too much to have her bury another boy. And uh and so I drove, you know, I just climbed out of the car and I walked around the desert and I I I came up with another plan.

This is my second big plan in one night. So, you know, I was on a roll. And uh and that and I I didn't plan this out, but I drove into town the next morning.

I robbed the bank, you know, and it was about that casual. I walked in, stood in line. In fact, if I had to re re if I had to reinvent that whole scenario, I can still remember the lady looking at me like, "What are you crazy?" I went, you know, you fill out your forms, you know, you fill out your uh, you know, your uh, deposit slips.

And I basically wrote on the back of it, I didn't know I was writing this, but I wrote, "I have a gun. This is a bank robbery. I will kill you.

Give me $50." That's what I wrote. And I stood in line because I think that's the wrong thing to do if you're going to rob bank. So, I took line and when it was my turn, I called up and I slid the lady in the note and she looked like this down at me.

That's what it felt like. She was looking down at me. And I looked up at her and said, "Yeah, I'm serious." And she slid me a $50 bill and I took it and ran.

And uh so, you know, you're not dealing with a criminal here. I'm not really a gangster. I'm just I was a snot-nosed punk.

I weighed about 105 lbs. And uh >> and I was just way out of control. And I remember the only thing I remember that is I I think I was in a sober blackout cuz I wasn't sober at the time.

I ran to my car which I parked a couple blocks away and I drove about three miles to a 7-Eleven and I was shaking so bad. It was like shaking and I went in bought a 12-pack of Budweiser and I got about four beers down and as soon as I was done with that fourth one it felt like everything was like like booze worked for me every time. It was like, "All right, dude.

That was crazy." You know, like you just robbed the bank. That's And you only got 50 bucks. Man, that's not even worth it.

So, I drove across town and robbed another bank about 50 bucks. I know people always say, "What'd you get?" None of my none of your business. But I didn't get 50 bucks.

And then and then I came home. I paid all my debts off. I went to every drug dealer I owe money to.

Paid everybody off. I reuped, right? a couple times and I paid my rent.

I paid every bill. I paid everything off and I had a pocket full of money and a bag full of coke and um some boobs in a bag and my girlfriend says, "God love her." She says, "Uh, how was work?" And I'm I'm a painter, right? And anyone painted for a living knows that you come home with paint on you.

I came home the last year that I live with that woman covered in paint and I was clean as could be. And I said, "Work was great. Let's go out to dinner.

go stop it. And uh that's what we did. You know, we went out.

I started spending money like I was a drunk sailor. And uh about 6 months later, 6 months later, I I remember I I had a boss that was, you know, he was like I was. And I said, "Hey, I need the keys to the van, man.

I got to go make some errands." He said, "Yeah, give me the keys to the van." I drive him to town, rob a bank, go back to the job site. And I'm thinking, SERIOUSLY THINKING, WHY IS everybody doing this? You know, like what do you think?

All I do is ask for it, man. They just give it to you. And um what I I didn't understand.

Well, but here's what happened. Two weeks later, not two weeks, about a week later, I came home from work. This is just gives you the definition of the guys I run with.

I came home from work. It was like every other night, I had a some booze and I went to put it in the refrigerator and I looked on the refrigerator and there's a picture of me that was cut out of the paper. One of my roommates had saw.

They cut it out of the paper and they put it on that thing. And it didn't say my name. And it was just like me coming out of a bank waving, you know, like, "Hey." And, uh, underneath it said, "Uh, $5,000 reward.

Call 88 Crime." That's when 88 Crime started hitting the road, you know, everybody's like, "So, I'm like immediately my knees start buffing. I'm like, man, that looks just like me. I would have that shirt in my room right now." And I'm like, "Man." But I like get my stuff together and u I rip it down and I go out.

My roommates are all out there and they're all baked because they've been home like an hour. And I throw it on the table. I'm like, "Dude, what's that?" And they go, "Man, it's crazy, Brian.

Some dude looks just like you." And I'm as soon as they said that, it's like I, you know, I thought they if they don't know, then nobody knows. And then about a week later, I got arrested. FBI came in and uh and they arrested me.

you know, somebody obviously, you know, needed a new car or something. Um, but they arrested me and and then the only thing that significant my parents did what parents do because my parents love me so much is they bailed me out 3 days later and they got me a lawyer and then the lawyer told me the truth, which nobody had really told me the truth, which is Brian, you're going to go to prison. You can't rob three banks and not go to prison.

And I said, well, what does that mean? They're like, well, you a year, two years. He said, no, probably five or 10 years.

Now, when you're 21 and you're talking 10 years, that's like a that's 30 is like so old, right? I mean, I remember that 30 is like ancient. I got a 17-year-old daughter.

She's a foster daughter, but she's my dog as far as I'm concerned. I know she's like thinking I'm ancient, you know? I mean, I get that that thought process.

And I thought my life is over. It is over. And uh so I started drinking really really bad.

I started waking up drinking. Uh, and once I start drinking, because I have this physical allergy to alcohol. Once I put alcohol into my system, it's not like I just drink a few and then call it good.

I drink all day and I do other things all day so I don't fall asleep or if I do pass out, I wake up and I start drinking more. And it was bad for about 2 3 months. It was really bad.

I was really bummed out and I knew what's the use. And one day everybody's like, "Hey, we're going to the bar." You know, they're all happy to go to the bar. I don't have any money cuz nobody's hiring me, right?

Cuz I'm going to prison soon. And uh nobody's giving me any drugs for free anymore, you know, because I'm hot as heck, you know? Nobody wants me even around.

And understandable, right? And I'm sitting there thinking, man, this is suck. And I look at my roommate and I said, hey, can I borrow your car?

I need to go cash a check. Hey, this I don't want to take his inventory or anything, but come on, dude. I haven't worked in a long time.

I don't have no check to cash. But he gives me his keys to his car and I drive. It's a Friday afternoon and I go rob a bank on a Friday afternoon and I knew I was going to get pinched.

I knew it. I and I didn't care. It's like so what?

I'm getting some money tonight and I am drinking and partying this weekend. And that's what I did. I drank and partied that weekend and I knew the FBI was coming after me Monday or Tuesday.

I just said well whatever. And they came and got me on Monday and uh and I didn't see the streets for the next six years. And uh and thank God they saved my life.

You know there's a running joke guys who do time will know this. You know, it's like we used to say, "Yeah, you weren't arrested. You were saved." You know, and the truth was I was saved.

I was I was a train wreck waiting to happen, you know. It wasn't going to be my life. It was going to be somebody else's, you know, and that's the way it was going to go down.

And and I just didn't see the severity of it. I just didn't get it. I was so immersed in my alcoholism.

>> And uh so 6 years, you know, I got a 6-ear sentence. Make run right to the to the solution now. I did 5 years, 8 months on that on that bit.

Got out. Didn't think I was going to drink. I was just do my do my time and I was old lawf get off.

But I I can't, you know, I can't that they can give me all the conditions. In fact, my pro was real clear. It's not like he tricked me.

He gave me all the things I needed to stay on the streets. He said you can't drink alcohol. You can't use drugs.

You got to be here when you're there. He gave me all the rules and laid them all out. But as soon as I'm on the streets, you know, as soon as I'm out there, uh I think I stayed sober maybe a month.

Um, you know, I drank one time and I said, "Okay, I got to do that. Got to control myself." Um, and then I I just I I have a See, it's never been the first drink that's always got me drunk. I used to They love that.

That's a great line, right? It's the first drink that gets you drunk. They say a lot.

Um, and I think it's a cute saying, but I think they're missing the point because it's never been the first drink that's gotten me drunk. It's been the unprotected thought that precedes the first drink. See?

See, that's the deal for me. Like I have a type of mind when I shouldn't drink. I will go to prison if I drink.

There's no reason to drink. I'm okay, but I'm not okay. And the thought pops up into my head.

And I don't even think about it. I don't think about the consequences. I don't think about how I'm going to get beat the system.

I just say, "Screw it." And I drink. I end up in liquor stores. I end up at bars drinking.

I don't even know how I got there because I got no protection against the first drink. I don't care what conditions you put on me. I don't care what's on at stake.

Girlfriend, uh, freedom, family, job, it doesn't mean anything, man. If I don't have any protection against that first drink, I will drink. Okay?

That's just the way it is. And, uh, and so I started drinking. I got no protection.

I got no recovery. I'm not I'm not doing AA. I'm supposed to go to AA, but I'm signing the name.

I'm, you know, I learned the system a long time ago. I went to one AA meeting and I asked, "Who needs to sign my list?" Like, I thought the president of AA was going to sign my list, right? Nobody's in charge in AA.

some goofball with no teeth signs my list. So I'm thinking, come on, this guy can't even write his name. If that's the if that's their check system here, I got that.

So I started writing meetings down and then uh you know about four or five months later my professor calls me and he says, "Hey um I'm looking at your AA list and I see on Wednesdays you go to this and I'm pulling my list out on the phone like, "Yeah, that's the meeting I go to." He says, "Yeah, when's the last time you were there?" I I was there last Wednesday. Well, that's weird. That meeting's been closed for 6 months.

you know, and he says, "And also, you tested positive for we have three dirty errands." And uh and I said, "This is what I say." I say, "Uh, yeah, what does that mean?" And like, you know, like I know what it means, right? And he said, "Uh, he said, "Why don't you come down and see me?" And I'm like, "Yeah, uh, Tim, that's probably not going to happen. I just want to let you know that right now.

Um, I'll see you later." And I hung up. I was living with my parents. Walked into my bedroom, grabbed all my stuff, threw it in my car, and my mom says, "Where are you going?" And I go, I'm moving.

I don't tell her where I'm moving. I don't tell I don't say anything, right? I'm moving.

And I moved out that night. And I last another four or five months on the streets before the marshals arrested me. >> And uh if I had more time, I tell that colorful story cuz that was a nightmare.

But the truth is, I'm a wreck. You know, I'm alcoholic. I'm a real alcoholic, man.

I just can't not drink, you know? I just have to drink, man. And uh and and with that goes everything else.

And so I end up going back for a year on a violation. And now I got seven seven years in almost and I get out. And the only thing different getting out this time.

The only thing different was that um I don't want to drink now. I'm really starting to think I shouldn't drink. I think that I'll just go to this halfway house.

And I went to this place called New Beginnings Treatment Center, which is kind of like the this place probably is a it's a halfway house for guys coming out of prison to transition back in. And that the first day that I'm allowed to go out free. Uh and I have like $50 to my name and that's all I got.

I'm 29 years old and I'm broke and I'm homeless and that's all I got. And in my mind, as soon as I step out the gate and hit the door, hit the street and start walking, this thought pops into my head. It's like, man, you should have a drink.

>> And I go drink that day. And then I get caught 3 days later and I get sent to AA this time for real. And I don't know why my professor sent me alcoholics anonymous.

I don't really care. I just know that for some reason he thought that he would give me a break. And so I went to AA and I lasted a year in AA and here's what happened in AA for me.

First off, I really started seeing, man, I got a problem. Like this is a problem. I'm going to about ready to go back to the penitentiary one more time.

Like that's something wrong with that picture and I'm willing to give up my freedom. And I started thinking, you know, I'm 29 years old and my picture of an alcoholic is a guy living on Skid Row. I don't fit that picture, though.

Here's how ignorant I am. a week, you know, like not even a week into sobriety. I'm selling blood on the streets.

That's how that's how poor I am. That's where I am at. I have absolutely no money.

They gave me one break. I got to go get a job. I have no money to get a bus pass.

And so I'm out selling plasma cuz new donors get 25 bucks. And I remember standing in line. I was on 4th Avenue, downtown Tucson.

And I'm waiting in line with everybody else. And you had to tip the scale. I think you had to be 110.

And I remember wearing three layers of clothes so I could tip the scale. Okay, that's how pathetic I am. And I remember looking around all the other losers that were in line with me thinking, "What a bunch of losers." You know, like I'm a player, you know?

Don't you know that I was the shortest bank robber in captivity from 198 that means anything, right? That was my claim of fame. Shortest bank robber in captivity for seven years.

Big deal, right? And uh so I go to AA and I start hanging out in AA. And the one thing I I I there's a few things I liked about AA.

There's a few things I didn't like. And I'll tell you what I didn't like. I didn't like that they were uh way too friendly and they looked you in the eye.

I didn't like that. I was a shoe watcher. I strictly came in, looked around, you know, basically found chairs by looking at the floor.

If there's no shoe there, I'll sit down in it. Could not look you in the eye cuz I know you would know who I really was. I didn't like that they were uh mentioning God a lot.

That really bothered me. I was a atheist when I came to Alcoholics Anonymous. I hated God.

I hated you. If you hated If you liked God, I hated you. If you talked about God, I hated you.

If they talked about God in a meetings, I would get up in the middle of meet and leave. You know, I could not handle that. Um, here's what I liked about AA.

There was this guy named I can't even think of his name but he was an old retired uh Navy guy and uh he used to wear these big country overalls and he was just like a grandfather type really peaceful and he would always come up to me every day I used to go to the Allen Allen club it was a noon time meeting right which is just a great show you go to the time meeting in AA it's the best show on earth right and so he he would always come up to me and he would put his hand on my shoulder really lightly when he first did It was like I got real tense cuz I'm, you know, I come from a world where you just don't touch men. Don't touch men, right? Don't touch me.

Don't say anything to me. Don't give me anything. I'm way too, you know, shut down.

But for some reason, I liked it when he put his hand on my shoulder. It felt like I was safe, right? And I used to actually look forward.

I'd ride the bus to the meeting and look forward to seeing him, you know, cuz he'd always come up to me and look me in the eye and he put his hand on my shoulder, say, "Good to see you. Make sure you come back tomorrow." And I used to say, "Yeah, I'll be back tomorrow." But the truth is I had to come back. I had to get my sheets signed.

So, you know, I didn't really choice. But I started to like aa what I didn't do, uh, you guys have here, but they used to put the 12 steps on the wall, right? Well, I I think that's a problem first off cuz it's not good for a guy like me who's been a thief his whole life because they have that night which says make amends.

I know what that means. Make amends mean pay back the money. I ain't doing that.

And so, and then you have all these different things with God intermixed there, man. Forget about it. Right?

And so I wasn't going to do that. In my group, and I think this was a uh I don't know if this is a problem with AA. I don't know.

I don't think there's any problems with AA. I think it is what it is. But they in in my meeting there's like 50 people and you had it was the it was basically there was a group of people that were like hardcore AA big book thumpers, right?

And some of them didn't even look happy. They were like DO A FOREP, YOU KNOW, and they were like, you know, and I'm like, wait, is she way too serious about this sariety stuff? And then there was a group of people who were all like into uh fluff and uh you know love and peace and God and and I was like man forget about that.

That's way too flicky for me. And then there was a group who were just like you know what you just don't drink and you go to meetings you just don't drink. And they always invite me to go out.

You want to go we're going to go play pool. You want to go play pool. So I go out and play pool with these guys and they were like some of my drinking buddies man.

They were like runchy man. And I'm like oh these are cool guys. This is cool.

But what I found out through a relapse is that may be good for them. But that is not good for a guy like me. I'm a real alcoholic.

I need a real solution. No middle. I didn't middle the road my my using.

I was not a middle of the road kind of guy, right? I rob banks on bond. Okay, come on.

Let's get real here. I would not I mean I wasn't a half measured in my drinking and using days. That was not who I was.

And so why would I think my recovery can also be half measured. I'll do middle of the road. I'll just pick and choose what I want to do.

Don't work for me. Now I'm real comfortable in what people doing. Alcoholics anonymous is their business.

Okay. I don't care. None of my business.

I made a third-step decision back in 1993. Turn my will and my life over the care of God. Which means I no longer am God.

That means whatever you do in Alcoholics Anonymous is your business. Also means whatever I do is my business. All right?

So what I do is I do the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. I didn't do that my first year. I end up drinking after a year sober and then three months I drank and druga working at a rehab.

I worked at a rehab and drank. You know, I was the type of guy. This is how sick I am.

I'm working at this rehab and I'm in the middle of a relapse. I'm not telling anybody. I go to the big book meeting in the morning, the step meeting in the group in the afternoon.

I go to the noon time meeting with everybody. I go to the 6:00 meeting and then I jet off to my buddy's house and I drink all night and smoke crack all night. Um, this is now postgrad.

And all of a sudden, I sneak back onto this ranch. Sometimes I'd be in my in my trailer and I would be really drunk and really high and guys would come and they go and I like what and I open the window be some new guy who just came in like 2 weeks now he's trying to go to rehab and he's like man I really need to talk to you like what do you get in here and I said what do you want to talk about he said man I want to leave I want I want to go home I want to get out of here like man don't go this is the fastest thing man you want to be sober and I would talk about 100 miles an hour to convince this guy to stay in sobriety and he'd say man I really appreciate that. And then he would leave and I'd go back and drink some more and smoke some more.

That's how sick I was. And so when I got sober on March 6th, 1993, I I'd given up. I I've been drinking and drunken.

I've been waking up for 3 months thinking, "Okay, I'm not drinking today. I'm not I'm done drinking." And I would get up and I would all a sudden by 6:00 the it the thought would pop in or not even a thought. I would just be drinking, you know?

And it was just like, man, I gave up. And I the thought went through my mind that whole week from March 1st to March 6th. The thought that went through my mind was you know what what's the use?

You just kill yourself which kind of frightened me. And the other thought which was even more scarier was you know what Ryan you could go to Phoenix and you could rob about three banks in a week bank roll yourself go to Vegas and be a poker player. And I, you know, and when I get a thought like that, I'm like, I start to think yes.

And then I will definitely and you know, all of a sudden I'm like the king pit in Vegas. And I and if you ever watch me play poker, it wouldn't have been good, right? And on March 6th, I got 12st step back into AA by a guy, a a good friend of mine, a guy who I was running with an in aa who and and I say this because sometimes we get running partners in early sobriety and and I know this cuz I've seen this happen is we get really close to someone and then we see them start to slip off, but we're so close to them.

We're such good buddies that we don't want to say anything to them. We don't want to make them mad or we don't want to piss them off. So, we kind of let him do and all of a sudden they're gone.

And what happened is Max made my drinking his business. He called me on it. He risked our friendship, right?

And I was mad. I started to defend it. I started to get up to leave cuz he asked me how long I've been sober.

And he got in my face. He got really close to me. And he wasn't a confrontational kind of guy.

He was he was one of those heroin addict kind of mellow guys, you know, California, long hair, you know, hey dude. Uh, you know, she was a little dope. And uh, he said to me, he got really in my face.

He spent a lot of time in California State Penitentiary. So he had he had a little ice to him and he got really close to me and he said, "You know what? Cut it." He says, "The truth is, dude, I love you too much to watch you die in front of me, man.

How long you been sober?" And at that moment, this is one of those turns where I could have gone right one more time and I've been making right turn. I could have done that easy. I could have said, "Screw you, Max." And I could have got in my Well, I could have got into a vehicle.

I would have been stealing, but I would have done it. And then left, right? But I didn't do that.

I for some reason all the fight left me. It was like I just started crying in front of this guy and this guy was like it was the only guy I cried in front of but I and I had cried in a long time I cried in years but I couldn't stop. I was just I was a broken man at that moment.

I just said man I need help. I need I can't stop drinking, dude. And he said well and he gave me a big hug and he said you'll be all right.

You'll be all right. He said I'll sit with you. I said if you don't if you leave me I am gone.

He says I'm not leaving you, man. And uh I went to bed that night. He slept on the foot of the, you know, like on the on the floor, you know, near the door.

And uh Max saved my life, man, because I'm the type of guy, you know, like I would have left. And and I and and when I run, I'm I'm a jack rabbit, man. I run and and I do anything to survive.

I will hustle. I will rob. I I will do things and I don't care about the consequence.

And that moment, I just surrendered and he sat with me that whole night. And the guy who owned that rehab came and saw me the next day and I thought he was going to kick me to the streets and he and he didn't kick me to the streets. He said, you know, he says, um, he said whatever he was saying at that time, he says, "Man, I love you too much to watch it die.

So, you don't have to leave." He said, "You can't work here. You can't leave." And I said, "Well, I don't have the money." It was $6,000 a month. This was a high-end rehab.

I said, "Man, I don't get that kind of money." He says, "I don't want your money." He says, "You can stay here as long as you need to stay here. I just want to see you get better." and I became a patient at the place I uh I worked at and it was very humbling and the woman that I'm married to we've been she was in rehab with me and she'll tell you this story because the next day uh the next day I got a sponsor guy named Kim who was become my sponsor who was real direct with me and I'll tell you about him in a minute but on Monday I had to go in front of circle circle there's 50 patients and I had to go in front of the circle and get honest about what I was doing I had to finally say you know what I've been li living a lie for three months you And I was sitting up there and I was pacing and I wanted to I wanted to jump out of my skin so bad, man. I was I was so uncomfortable.

And uh Chloe, who's my wife, and uh two other girls, this girl Zoe and this other girl, I can't remember her name, but they they literally held me there cuz I wanted to just run. And they just kept saying, "You know what? You just do this.

You're going to be all right, man. You just got to go through this." And I sat in that circle and I got honest and I got nailed by people. People were they were pissed.

Especially guys I talked how to get the high while I was getting high. They were not after you me. I knew you were you know I can see you man.

And so I got this sponsor and I got this sponsor and uh and this is what I hate about my story cuz there's so many things I want to tell you and now I've got like 10 15 minutes to tell you about how wonderful recovery is. But I'm going to be real honest about you. My life has changed dramatically.

And and I'm not even going to get into the the technical. Just know this. The the sponsor I have told me one thing.

It was real clear. He said, "Brian, just don't kid yourself. You were never in AA.

You just need to know that." And I was pissed about that. I'm like, "I was in AA. You saw me go to that meeting." He said, "No, you were in a fellowship of people who don't drink.

>> The program of Alcoholics Anonymous is the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. Without the 12 steps, that is not the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. That is nothing.

That is just hanging out with people who don't drink. He says, "This is a this is a bigger deal. It this is not about drink.

Drinking is not your problem. Drinking is your solution. Always has been your solution.

Your problem is you have alcoholism." See, I always thought I got a drinking problem, so I just won't drink. I should be okay. Because if you have a drinking problem and you stop drinking, that's it.

I mean, that's the solution for a drinking problem. You just don't drink. But I have alcoholism.

And for me, it's as simple as this. If I got pneumonia and one of my symptoms is a cough and I go to the doctor and all he does is treat my cough, I still got pneumonia. Two things are going to happen.

Either my cough is going to return or I'm going to die of pneumonia. Well, I have alcoholism and I came to Alcoholics Anonymous and the symptom is I drink too much. I put alcohol in my system and something physically happens to me that makes me want to drink more.

All right? And so I removed that symptom, but I still had alcoholism, meaning everything about me has not changed. A spiritual awakening.

The 12th step of alcohol says, having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps. And they even tell you what the result's going to be. They tell you right there, you take these steps, you will have a spiritual awakening.

Now, if you're atheist like me, that scares the hell out of you, right? Like, I don't know if I want that. But he was real clear, put in the lamest term.

He says spiritual awakening you have a whole new attitude and outlook upon life a whole new way of thinking and if you have a whole new way of thinking your actions will be different because every action you take is preceded by a thought I was like whoa this guy's like he's like way he's deep and he was just some country cowboy from New Mexico right drove a big truck and he welded for a living but he was very peaceful and he told me that The solution is spiritual. He says, "And I know you got a problem with that." He says, "But you don't have to have a problem with that. Let's go through the 12 steps and whatever's going to happen with your relationship with the God of your understanding will happen.

It'll be the way it's supposed to be. And you don't have to define it. You don't have to figure it out.

Let's just start with the first step." And I started to go through the steps and I and I go through the book and I go chapter at a time. And the reality was I did not know I was alcoholic. I did not know that my reaction to alcohol is completely abnormal.

I didn't know that an allergic reaction means an abnormal reaction to a substance. Right? I didn't know that.

I didn't understand that when I went to the store, when I was in the liquor store, I went to the bar to have a few drinks when I was on parole. I was just going to have a few drinks and then I would change my mind during the second drink. I always thought I was changing my mind.

I thought I was making that decision. That's the the lie that my ego tells me that I'm just making a different decision here. Like, yeah, I know in the parking lot 10 minutes ago or 15 minutes ago, you just want to have two or three, but now I'm changing my mind.

We're going to stay here all night and get drunk. Well, I had no control over that once I put it in my system. And you know what that did for me is this resentment I had against my mom, this hatred about her weakness immediately went away.

The moment I accepted my own alcoholism, that physically I'm different. My dad always used to tell me, "Why don't you drink like me? And his drinking was one drink, maybe two, and that was it.

Get some willpower. Well, I'm different than my dad. It's not because he's stronger than me.

He has better resolve. He's morally better than me. It's we're physically different.

I got a problem, something. I'm lacking something physically. And I put alcohol.

It doesn't matter. I put it in my system. All bets are off.

And when I got that, I understood alcoholism. I got that peace and then the flip side is okay so what what about the mind that's the real problem which is when the thought comes into my mind I drink so I don't have any protection and the funny thing is if you read page 84 in the big book alcoholics anonymous it's the best prom the 10step promises blow away every promise in book as far as I'm concerned because that's what I got hooked on it says when the thought occurs I will recoil it from a hot flame I never recoiled from alcohol when the thought occurs For me, I would plot and plan and try to figure out how to get out of the system I'm in. Either I'm in prison, I would make wine.

I make wine instead, you know. Come on. I mean, I would I would drink anything that would get me drunk, you know?

Anything. And it was nasty. Anyone who's made drinking prison, it is nasty.

But I don't care cuz once I get one down, I'm okay. I'm all right, you know. So, something's got to replace, something's got to go in my mind.

And I remember when I read those promises, I remember going to my sponsor saying, "You tell me that if I go through these steps, when I get to the 10th step, that's going to happen." He said, "Yeah, man. That's what's happened. When the thought occurs, you will recall from a hot flame because if it's anything else, I'm done.

If it's anything like uh and not to be disrespectful to triggers and relapses and all that other stuff, but if that's what I got to figure out, what's my trigger? What's my re, you know, forget about it. I've been through all the rehabs in the world.

Site counseling, case workers, I've done it all, man. That don't work for me. You know what works for me?

God works for me, right? The God of my understanding. And I the fact I even say that today, I still sometimes get like, who said that?

You know, like come from, you know, because the reality is I was atheist when I came in and I'm a I'm a I'm a spiritual man today. I live by spiritual principles. And I don't know what that means anyone else, but I tell you what it means to me.

It means for 15 and 1/2 years, I haven't had any Drake or drugs in my system. It means for 15 and 1/2 years I've been a man of integrity. Right.

That means for 15 and a half years, I haven't hurt the people I used to hurt. The mom and dad when I got sentenced in front of Judge Bilby back in 19, you know, 1984 when they gave me my sentence when Judge Bilby looked down at me and said, "Oh, what we got here is a oneman crime wave." You know, he thought that was funny, right? And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm a oneman crime wave.

You know, I'm a gangster, you know, $50 thug here. You know, 50 cent ain't nothing, man. $50 here.

And I walked out of the courtroom that day and my family was crying. My mom was crying. My grandmother was crying.

You know, my my my uh aunts were crying. Everybody was crying cuz I was going off to prison. And all I thought was, "Why are they crying?

I'm going to prison." It's like somehow I'm so consumed with self that I don't see that my actions destroy everybody around me. The biggest lie any alcoholic ever says is, "Why don't you get off my back? Leave me alone cuz I'm only hurting myself.

But guess who I took to prison with me? I took my mom to prison. I took my dad to prison, my brothers, my nephews.

They all went to prison with me. Now, I never said that when I was doing time. It was just where's my money order?

You know, where my mom get my money order today. Call her up. You know, collect.

Hey man, I didn't get my money order. Send me my money order. You know, that's how selfish I am, right?

The reality is I take my people with me. You know what? My mom disowned me, right?

The last time I went to prison, she wrote me a letter saying, "You can't come home anymore. But that's not the case today. Through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, I was able to go back to my mom.

You know, I did a first step. I started looking at the second step, right? I came to believe that maybe there's something out there.

I made this decision to turn my will and my life over to that. Then I wrote this four step that you got to write. If you want recovery, you got to do it, right?

So, I wrote that. I'm a four column kind of guy. You know, I do it the way it's laid out in the big book.

I did a fear inventory, sex inventory. Went and shared it with this guy. When I got to my nightstep, all right, I went and sat down in front of my mom and what I realized was the destruction of the man I used to be.

Who I was was just like when I looked at who I used to be, I'm like, man, what kind of what kind of son is that? You know, what kind of brother is that? You know, alcoholism just rips me from everybody I love.

And uh it was the best moment of my recovery. The best moment was probably the most painful moment. And I was sitting in front of my mom, just me and her.

nobody else. My dad, just me and her. And I just got real.

I just laid down the line. I said, "Mom, you know what?" You know, and the words, it wasn't so much the words as it was, it was what was in my heart. It's like, I can't believe um that I made you write that letter.

I can't believe that I made you disown me. And that's not how I went into recovery. I went into recovery thinking, "My mom disowned me.

How dare her?" I came out of the steps knowing that I made my mom do that. I forced her to ride her baby. And I can tell you right now, I had a lot of emotion around that.

We cried for a long time. But I can tell you right now, you know what the reality was? I didn't even really feel the magnitude until years later my daughter was born and she was about 3 months old.

And and I remember I came out of the shower and she was laying on the bed and I just sat there and I looked at her and I realized like I will love this child no matter what she does. It doesn't matter what she does. I will always love her.

And I had this overwhelming feeling of unconditional love. And I never had that before. I've never felt unconditional love.

My love always had conditions. And at that moment, I knew what it meant to love a child. And I remember, man, call my mom up and saying, you know, I know I said this to you before, and I know I've changed and everything, but I just got to tell you one more time.

I'm so sorry that I put you through that. And my son the same way. you know, I look at those kids and I realized, man, what a son I've become.

And so, I live this way. I I'm I can't even tell you. Um, if if you get nothing out of what I say, just know this.

I love Alcoholics Anonymous. It saved my life. >> I'm not a guy who lives in AA.

I'm not a guy who hides out alcoholics anonymous. I go out and live life, man. You know, I do it.

I do it all. I I'm I I'm a firm believer that the principles that I've learned from the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous allow me to do lots of things that I shouldn't even do. All right.

And so I could speak for two more hours, but I'm going to I'm going to close out of respect. I'm finally got to drive an hour and a half. Uh but I I'll close with this.

You know, there's some men in this room that that mean more to me uh than lots of people. And so uh one thing that that my sponsor taught me and that that I share with guys is is um you know, the real deal here is for us to be of maximum service to God. That's the whole deal.

The deal is it's not about me anymore. It's not about me getting my life together and getting healed and that's beyond that. It's now it's about me being of service to God's kids because that's the truth.

There's people right in this room right here who are dying of untreated alcoholism who are destined to drink and maybe die. And it's our job is to find them and get out of oursel our little clicks. You know like you know how does it meet and everybody gets clicky and they go there.

Forget about that. You really want to do God's work? step back and look at the guy sitting in the corner who's all by himself, who's lonely, who maybe doesn't have anybody, and go reach out to him or reach out to her and say, "Hey, let's go have some coffee." Because that's what people did for me, right?

So, I make that my life. You know, I do lots of work at the prison system. I do more meetings inside the prison I do outside the prison, right?

And I do that because there's not a lot of people going in. All right? And so, I love Alcoholics Anonymous and I love you guys and I appreciate a dicky ass.

>> >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.

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