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Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. See, it's not that the phone rings, it's just that they're so goofy.

those ringtones. It's like, oh my gosh, it just freaks me out. My name's Chris Kramer.

I'm a very grateful recovered alcoholic. And I probably look like some kind of a ghost here. It's bad enough I got to wear a eye patch, but I've got the the the stage lighting to go with it.

We may We may levitate out of here before this is all over. I listen. Thanks, whoever had anything to do with me getting here.

Thanks for doing it. I I uh I love Phoenix and I I uh I started speaking out here about 15 years ago and I' I've had the opportunity to do it a few times and yes, I know it's hot, but it's a dry heat. I know.

I've heard it all. I've heard it all. It just and the architecture is gorgeous and I got to tell you, the people are the the absolute nicest.

So, thanks for letting me come out here. Uh uh some of the AA groups that I talk at, the the f the fellowships that I'm they're not as good-looking as this bunch. I mean, It's surprise to some of you.

I mean, even the ugly people are good-looking. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. This is great. But, but this podium is a lot like something we would do in Ingram, Texas.

What can I say? I'm I'm delighted to be here. Chris and the Posi picked me up at the airport and got me here.

Okay. and they're going to take me back in the morning. I wish I could stay all weekend.

I'm so h I've got a job interview tomorrow night. I got to go. I listen, I got to tell you real quick.

Get it out of the way. Some of y'all are asking, but I got canned about three weeks ago. I got I got I got terminated as and my my old sponsor, Mark, y'all y'all are laughing.

Y'all, Trust me, it's I'm on my old sponsor said, "Bro, you ain't lived until you've been fired in sobriety." And I and I And I did the same thing. I li I I li I said, "Yeah, right. Okay.

It's no big deal." But I owe amends to every guy I've ever worked with. I mean, I've worked with hundreds of men and I've on the phone with a lot of people in around the world. I get to speak and I, you know, and they lose their job and they call me and I and it's the same stuff comes out of my mouth.

You know, God's got something better for you and all this and and I got I am so sorry. I make a public amends to every cuz you got to come up with some better crap than that. You don't understand.

I just lost my job. Is it like it is? It's always a catastrophe.

It's happened to you. Other than that, it's just no big deal. You know, it's like I'm delighted to be here.

And um let me let me do my little little 10-second disclaimer. I'm going to get seasick before this podium's over. We're going to fix it for you, Sandy, tomorrow night.

Those will be nice and steady for you to hold on to. But I'll just sit here and sway back and forth. That's okay.

It's a pirate thing. I know somebody I'll I'll go ahead and say it now before you all start. I I know if I if I hear one more pirate joke, I mean, I don't I don't know.

I uh I want the good. It's better. Ain't it nice to have a man around the house?

I uh I got sober in 1987, folks, after years of messing with this thing trying to get well. And uh I'm going to tell you some about that in the in the hour. But I I um I started traveling around a little bit speaking from the podium.

Not necessarily because I was too witty, but you know, some of the stuff that I talk about, some of the stuff I talk about rings real true with some people, especially these little chronic relapsers that have tried a thousand times to get sober. And so, what I want to do tonight is the same as I do always is I want to share a little bit of my story with you. and and it's my experience and it and it just I mean y'all look around this room guys, we got lots of different people coming from lots of different avenues here and the chance of you having the same experience with me that's it's one of the things that drives me crazy in AA sit around the rooms long enough and you'll hear somebody tell your story still waiting please I'm just it's my story and I and I and I and I'm not trying to be controversial and I'm not trying to pick a fight with anybody and I'm a big book thumper finally in 1987 7.

Some somebody understood the traditions and they understood that the meetings formats could actually change. You mean something besides an open discussion meeting where you come and talk about your horrible day? Oh my god.

And in 4 days I'll be in Denmark and I'll say the same thing and I'll get the same applause and we'll go straight back into the meetings and continue to do it. It drives me crazy. I just want to scream.

But see, some of y'all in here really like those meetings. And if you can just go to a 90 meetings in 90 days and you can stay sober and never work a step, how cool is that? Rock on.

I just I just think that's cool. But it's just not my experience. So, I'm going to share a different experience from a little big book thumper perspective.

And you're a little meeting maker kind of a knucklehead and and I hope that and I hope you go away soon. But, you know, we're going to have a good time. Just understand I'm coming from a little different spot than you are.

Everybody, it's amazing to me how many how many times when we were speaking out there that people want to take exception with the big book thumpers perspective. I introduce myself on the podium and I always have because my sponsor told me and he showed me in the book, you should after the obsession to drink leaves, you should start introducing yourself as a recovered alcoholic. But thanks to treatment centers, we've got all these little recovering alcoholics hanging in there.

My question is when are you going to get well? you know, cuz I I'm just saying we could use your help in the trench. You know, we could we're going to talk some about that, but it's my you don't have to agree with everything I say and that's just okay.

And I No, I don't want to talk about it after the meeting. Just go away. I used to say that and they usually come up and try to explain to me why we're always going to be recovering and we're always going to be sick and I don't know why cuz my counselor had Oh my gosh.

I um I was raised up in Kerbal, Texas, Ingram, Texas, down in the Hill Country. We're about 60 miles west of San Antonio. A lot of you guys that drove to the international conference drove right through my town.

And um and didn't notice it, did you? It was It's that impressive. It's just nothing going on there.

And uh uh except it's all dried up now. I guarantee you we're we're in the middle of a of of a be. But um my father was an alcoholic.

Um he's passed away long. He was the nicest man you'd ever want to come across. He was one of these periodics.

He could stay sober for long periods of time and then and then something barometric pressure would change or something. He would he'd be off and and u uh wonderful guy. My mom's a professional artist and still uh around today.

And uh we we had a wonderful family. Good Baptist upbringing and no goofy stuff going on. But my twin brother and I uh got the genetic bullet.

You guys can argue this until the cows come home, but this genetic predisposition is pretty is pretty some of us get it and some of us don't. And uh there's some of you in here that believe it's about the bad thing that happened to you. And I'm probably that exacerbated the problem, but it didn't cause you to be an alcoholic.

Caused you to be a hard drinker. But alcoholism is a little illness all in its own. Folks got people out there want to argue whether this is a disease or not.

I don't know. Why don't you take it up with the American Medical Association? They seem to be pretty clear that this is a disease.

Um, I watch people die of this illness every every week. I I work in the treatment center field and have for a million years. And up until about three or four weeks ago, I have a long time.

I've worked in that industry and I it's uh I I get I get really uh uh I'm like a mother bear around Alcoholics Anonymous with these in these hospitals because I've heard every any bad thing that's ever been said about Alcoholics Anonymous I've I I get to hear in the treatment center. I mean, these guys will come into treatment, you know, they'll be down in down in the little detox unit and about the time they they start clearing the Adavan, you know, their little eyes will look, you know, that, you know, they're getting better cuz they start noticing women, the guys that are in there, you know, they spent the last three days in a fetal position crying, you know, begging for help, you know, and and now all of a sudden, you know, they got their sunglasses on, everything's cool now, you know, checking them checking the babes out. Adaban's wearing off and they look up on the wall and they go, "Oh, man, the steps were on the wall.

This is a This is an AA place. I thought for this kind of money we'd be doing something different. Yeah, I know.

A lot of places out there, do you know? I go pet chickens and whatever. I don't care what you do, but a lot of But guys, we've got some experience out there ghost that the 12 steps work.

Alcoholic synonymous works when you actually do it. They always look up after that and it's, "Oh, you know, I went to AA. I tried that.

It didn't work." No. What you did was go to a bunch of meetings. You see, if you're a real alcoholic, you're not going to stay sober going to a bunch of meetings.

If that's all you do and you're the real McCoy, I mean, that in itself is so controversial. People ask you to leave the podium. Well, meetings are what keeps us sober.

I think last time I looked, it was God that kept me sober. Maybe I'm wrong. >> >> If we had another 30 extra, I we'd soapbox this because at some point in we be we were a spiritual program of action and we turned into this self-help program where the meetings were the big focus.

And I'm not knocking meetings. I still go to a bunch of meetings a week as I I can. But but we sure separate a lot of people by making that the focus.

Just just don't drink. Go to meetings and everything will be okay. My experience is if you just don't drink and you're a real alcoholic and all you do is go to meetings, you're going to gradually go insane.

And the the pain of staying sober will gradually outweigh the benefits. And one day down the road with Chris Rmmer, it's about two weeks with me. It's about two weeks.

And I hear this little boy said about two week sober two weeks, you know. Oh my god. And I hear this little voice says, "You could probably have one deer cuz I'm nuts and I'm coming apart.

Everything you're doing is pissing me off and I don't know what it's about. You seemed like a good idea a few years ago, but now you, you know, it's everybody else's fault." And now, yeah, y'all understand this. See, guys, I got to say this and get it out of the way.

Alcohol is not the problem. For Chris Rymer, it's not. I've been I've been detoxed so many times.

I know the protocol. I mean, I Alcohol is not the problem. Alcoholism's the problem.

Y'all with us on that one. The You can hear it. It's Can you hear it, Sandy?

It's the same thing. No, it's not. Because if alcohol is a problem and you quit drinking, your life's going to be better.

Everything's just happy, joy, and free. The problem is is that most more of us end up offing ourselves in sobriety in dry time than we do out there drinking and drugging. It becomes painful.

It's progressive in nature, folks. And for some of us, we could put lots of dry time together just like my talking about my dad could do for long periods of time. Given sufficient reason, some of the women I've seen in this room, I can stay sober.

I can stay sober for periods of time. And then this crazy insane word. I start arguing with myself on the way to work why it's okay for me to eat a handful of pills.

As long as I don't drink, everything's okay. You know, maybe smoke a little pot because I didn't say anything about that. And now we're off to the stupid.

I got to have something inside to fix what's wrong with me. Have you ever watched people in Alcoholics Anonymous, some of you guys, uh, uh, old-timers in here that have been around for a little while, have you ever watched people end up, they laid the booze down and now all of a sudden they're picking up all this other stuff? Well, you know, we we gained 300 lb or we're hooked up to the internet porn or we're doing we're oh my god the the lottery the scratch off tickets, you know, oh my god, God, why is it that we take our our focus on to some of y'all got real uncomfortable when I started talking about that stuff, but I'm looking for something to fix what's wrong with me.

And it's what I'm trying to fix is untreated alcoholism. Does that make sense? Uh my first Yeah.

My first attempt at alcohol. Thanks, Dad. I I My first attempt at Alcoholics Anonymous was was in the early 80s, folks.

And that's that's my stick. I mean, that's my deal is that I spent seven years in Alcoholics Anonymous and nobody was talking about any of that. And uh I left Kurville.

I left the Hill Country. Real back to the story. Fast forward.

And and I went to the Houston, Texas. I wanted to be a cook. And uh I 1971 January, the the month that Bill Wilson passed away, I took my first drink was Boon Farm Apple Wine.

And um Can you Can you feel the love in here? I mean, I Come on. Like I said, I got I don't know what's in that.

I don't think it's ever seen a grape, but it's pretty. You know, it's the only thing I ever that that I ever drank that got prettier when it was coming back up than it's like it's like lime green. Try it.

Never mind. No, no. And I'm sitting up next to one of them big old cypress trees and and we drank this this this Boon Farm.

I've told the story a gazillion times and I'm with a little buddy of mine and he looked at me and he drank it and he spit it out. He says, "That's too sweet. I just can't drink it." And he said he said, "I'm going home." And I said, "So, let me get this straight.

You don't want me to save you any of this. You don't you you're done with this bottle. Is that correct?

Yes. And I finished it. It was a little bottle.

It wasn't one of those big bottles. And I didn't get drunk. I didn't get squashed.

I didn't rob liquor stores. I didn't take my clothes off. I didn't do anything that I hear you guys talk about.

Y'all, you'll f I I got up and walked across this field and in this big old full moon up here in the Hill Country and realized for the first time why my dad drank like my dad drank. He wasn't so far off base. And um I was to spend the next 18 years trying to get back to there.

Y'all understand? We used to do it in cooking. You'd have a couple of beers.

Guys, I don't want to get drunk. When I get drunk, I do stupid stuff. I I I fight with people that I love dearly.

I what I want to do is get right. And every alcoholic that's ever drank knows exactly what I'm talking about. You talk to people that don't know what they're talking about.

They come into treatment. Why do you drink? I drink to get shitfaced.

Man, that's a lie. That's not tr That's not true. Unless you're 17 years old, 18, maybe that's the maybe that's the case.

But as you get some responsibilities, I don't want to get squashed. I want to get comfortable in my skin. And I can tell you exactly how many drinks I got to get to get there.

You'll follow. problem is is this phenomenal craving that Dr. Silkworth in the front of the book does such a masterful job explaining starts to kick in and now all of a sudden I start missing the target just a bit, you know, and and occas and occasionally I will overdrink and it gets to be and it gets to be pretty nasty and and that's the problem when we first start drinking.

Everything's just the coolest. It's just it's it's Listen, when alcohol was working for me, I got to tell you, I've said it from you. You you couldn't touch me.

John Travolta had nothing nothing on me. I'm drinking through the seven. I got me a pair of high heels just like never you.

Y'all wouldn't understand how cool I was when it was working. And that's the problem. If it was still working, we'd all still be doing what we're doing.

But the progression of the stuff is you do it and it's fun and it's okay for a while. As it gets worse, it's still fun, but there's some problems to be dealt with. That's when a lot of people start coming to treatment.

You do it long enough, it's it's hell on earth. You don't want to drink, but you can't not drink. And that's the realization when you're standing in front of the mirror and realize that that the that that the deal's up, that you're that you can't not do it and all the excuses in the world are running thin.

That's real alcoholism, folks. That's why we drink our livers up. That's why we drink and lose our babies, our kids.

That's why we lose our job. That's why we we're not having fun doing that. Let me tell you, this is just a hypothesis of mine based on a lot of research from a lot of people.

But this is this is what I believe happened. because the water started to get muddy around the 80s and the 90s. We had a pretty clear message for a long period of time.

Bill Wilson in his absolute wisdom wrote this stuff down in the big book and got real clear about the spiritual program of action. He says over and over that perhaps a spiritual uh solution to the problem would work for you. And he talks about this God thing.

He talks unapologetically about this spiritual experience that we're supposed to have. And over the years, what we've done is we've we we managed to water that all down because we don't want to offend anybody. This is so not about religion.

He was so open about this. You can believe in whatever you want to believe in. But you got to believe in something bigger than yourself.

And for anybody to say opposite of that just kind of smacks against what Bill Wilson was writing in the book. In 1971, there was a piece of legislation called the Hughes Act that came down the Pike which allowed treatment centers to open on every street corner. There were like 7-Elevens.

Every hospital in the country had a had a had a detox wing. And on the surface, that was a good thing because so many of us got got well in those in those in that era thanks to those treatment centers. But what happened was in order to keep those beds open, what we had to do is we had to cast that big net out.

And we didn't care if you were an alcoholic or an addict or not. If you kind of looked like one and you had good insurance, back in the 80s, didn't matter if you had good insurance or not. If you had any insurance, it would pay like slot machines.

It would pay. So, we'd we'd scoop you up and we scooped up real alcoholics and real drug addicts. I'm glad we got them in treatment.

We also picked up hard drinkers and moderate drinkers and fruit cakes and nut cases and nut jobs and people that were lonely and didn't have anybody to talk to. And we we The problem is a lot of those knuckleheads are still here. They're the ones They're the ones with their wonderful of Listen, I don't just When you decide you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, you'll just quit.

Just put the plug in the jug and everything will be okay. Rock on. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I'm going to put the plug in the jug. My problem is I have a mental insanity called this this this this power of choice that I've lost. On page 24, it says that tells me that that I'm going to pull the plug back out even when I don't want to.

But because you can put the plug in the jug, you think I should be able to put the plug in the jug on my own power. Does that make sense? From 1935 when Bill Wilson, Dr.

Bob got together till 1976 with 36 years, we had our first 500,000 members of Alcoholics Anonymous. From 1971 to 1976, five years, we got another 500,000 into our fellowship. You know where all those people came?

Right into our fellowship via the treatment centers. I'm not knocking that. How cool that was.

But the problem is is that the messages got so damn watered down because of all of that. Everybody putting their own spin on it. And I'm not knocking any of that.

If it worked for you, great. I'm not complaining about that. I'm just saying you got to be careful because if your message is different than what's in the big book, you're confusing folks.

In the early 90s, uh the last stat I looked at in the early 90s, we had over 40% of all the hospital beds in the United States were psychiatric or alcohol and drugrelated beds. Can y'all imagine that? I mean, there's just not that many drunks in the in the United States.

There just not. This is where the problem, I believe, lied. I was in Houston in an apprenticeship program and doing real well, and uh this old boy came up, uh one of the executive chefs I worked for, and he said, "Chris, we've got a food and beverage director's job opening up, and uh you're showing some great talent here, and uh but we're a little concerned about your drinking." And uh he said, "Well, we all drink in the kitchen." And he said, "Yeah, but you take it a step further.

I'm not I'm not there's not a bunch of drama with my drinking, folks. Y'all understand it. It's just perfectly normal to come at the end of the shift and I'll be passed out in the walk-in quietly sitting on a case of lettuce, minding my own business.

Y'all y'all okay." He said, "Chris, if you can stop." And this is one of my first indicators that there was a problem because all I had to do to get this food and beverage director's job was to not drink or at minimum reel it in some. And I couldn't I couldn't pull it off. And I started seeing counselors and therapists at that point and started going to treatment.

And um I spent 10 years in therapy and I'm grateful for every bit of it. If there's any therapists in here, you got a special crown in heaven for putting up with our crap. I got to tell you cuz I never gave them much of a much of a straight shot.

But uh one of the cool things about seeing some of these therapists back in those days of the 80s and 90s was that you get lots of medication around that. And um if I can't drink, I'm a real fan of medication. And um and I'm taking seven pills a day uh from all doctor prescribed medications.

And I'm not up here to knock any of that. I'm just saying. Come on, guys.

I'm a I'm not a whack job. I'm not I don't I don't I'm I'm a garden writing textbook untreated alcoholic who needs a spiritual experience in order to recover. What I ended up doing was getting way overly medicated.

I mean, like guys, in my last days of drinking, I could I would pee green. I mean, it was just like I would I would glow in the dark. I'm taking so many meds.

a lot of these pills that you guys some of you I I did the test study on. So, oh my gosh. And I started moving around a bunch.

I did a bunch of geographicals. I finally got married. A counselor told me said, "Chris, you need to set some roots down.

You get married, you'd stay sober. How'd that work for you?" And um and I I finally found a girl that that believed that, you know, I mean, she was a helper. I was, she was a nice lady and I she she married me and uh it was terrible what I did to this woman.

I just I uh I was just never there. And uh uh we moved up to North Texas to be closer to my family. I moved her away from her family so I could be close to my family because I'm the one that's having trouble staying sober and we need all the support around me we can possibly get.

But my twin brother, of course, was my best drinking buddy. Y anyway, he got sober a few few u few months after I did. Thank God.

But, uh, I was up in North Texas and I got a job at a country club and everything's going to be okay. And, uh, guys, I don't know, y'all remember the progression of this illness, how it gradually got bad and then like at a certain point it was like those Roadrunner cartoons, you know, where the little guy drops off the cliff at the bottom, you know, that was like my drinking. It's like it was okay for a while.

It was holding it together pretty good and then it got really, really bad. Really? I used to drink a case of beer and go to work.

I mean, I just that's just so did a lot of you. You come on, guys. I drive better when I'm drunk.

I know. And there was a point, you know, you just you we could we could hold mass quantities of alcohol, but what happens is endstage alcoholism, some of y'all can relate to this, is that you can't metabolize the stuff like you used to. So, less and less will get you more and more in trouble, if y'all know what I mean.

Now that now I'm I've got two two drinks in me and I'm slurring my words. And that's where a lot of people end up saying, "I think I need aa because I don't know why I can't drink like I used to be able to." You with us, guys? It's endstage alcoholism.

You're dying. Your your body's shutting down. Pay attention.

Well, I had a little domestic disturbance with this woman and we ended up uh uh late late late that night. She said, she said, "Chris, you know, what was this about?" And I said, "I was drunk and I'm loaded on some other outside issues and I I just I'm a mess." And she said, "You got to you want this to work or not?" And I looked at her in the face and I and I told her that I would quit drinking. Uh just like I'd told that executive chef that I loved and respected so much.

And uh uh with tears in my eyes, I get so sick and tired of hearing people laugh from the podium. You know, if an alcoholic's mouth's moving, he's lying. That's not true.

And it's disrespectful. That's not true. When I looked her in the face and told her I was going to quit, I meant every fiber in my body.

I'm done. I'm not enjoying this. It's taken the one thing I love the most away.

I'm done. I I didn't understand that I didn't have the power to manage that decision, but the decision was made in good faith. It drives me crazy when a newcomer comes into a meeting and he picks up a chip and it's all embarrassed and and we sit there and we talk to him and a few weeks later he's gone and somebody leans over.

Well, I just knew the little bastard didn't want it. I knew he didn't want it bad enough. What?

Whoa. My question to you is, did we tell him how to get well or did we just tell him to keep coming back? I went to an AA meeting that night and um the next day I went to my first AA meeting, early 80s, and walked up these old steps in this old building downtown Denton and this old geyser sitting in an easy chair.

You know, one of those what do they call those lounger things? You know, when you when you lay back and had one light hanging down in the middle of this room and I mean you y'all seen that scene in Psycho. Y'all think I'm making this up.

People email me. You just That was exactly that that he he sat up in that easy chair and and I like I freaked me out. I like a old guy.

He says he said he said, "Do you have a desire not to drink today?" I hope to kiss a pig. Absolutely. I I got a half finishedish court in the truck.

Does that count? I mean, I'm in I but I want to stop. That's what he asked me.

What he was doing is qualifying qualifying me for membership in Alcoholics Anonymous, which is he should have done. But in the next seven years, nobody qualified me with the illness of alcoholism. Period.

Nobody ever found out if I was the real deal or not. As long as I had a desire not to drink today, I could come in the rooms. I'm not saying that we're making a wrong choice by doing that.

I'm saying that's all he did for me. Make sense? I'm sitting in the room, of course, and I didn't say sober.

I went home that night and I said, "Boy, it was fascinating in that meeting. Fascinating. You would not believe some of the some of the the crazy people we have living in this town with us right now." And I'm so glad that most of those people are sober today because I mean, they're scary, you know, cuz cuz I got to hear all about how many people you chopped up and how many Oh my god, it was just an amazing thing.

And I opened a beer in the refrigerator. She said, "What are you doing?" And I said, "Well, after I after that, I mean, I need at least a beer, you know?" I stayed sober a couple of weeks and she she I came home after work one day and I drank a couple of beers on the way home and she she smelled it and packed her stuff and left and I would spend the next five years u drinking. Um blaming her.

Um unbelievable. I went to work for my twin brother up in North Texas and he owned a book a book bindary and I couldn't uh work in the field anymore. I couldn't cook anymore.

I couldn't stand that long. My hands are shaking too bad to hold a knife. And um uh Myers used to laugh.

He'd get on the intercom. He said, "Cancel Chris's surgeries for the day." You know, cuz I'd be back there shaking so bad, you know. It's just funny boy.

Our families, you know, and um 1987, it's on a cold Thursday night. I'll never forget it. And I uh went home about three o'clock and stopped and bought a 12-pack of beer and went into the uh my little apartment, picked up the the the the stack of return checks.

I get my mail once a a month just to make sure I get it, you know, because it's depressing. And uh I've got some hot checks in there back in the day where they put checks in individual envelopes so you could sit there and open individ. It's like Christmas, you know, you can open you got six hot checks, you'd have six envelopes in there.

Remember that those days? I don't know if they still do it, but oh my god. And I sat there on the floor and I opened those those checks up and I here I am 35 years old and I bankrupted another checking account and I'm going to have to go to my sister-in-law and um come on guys.

My my drinking and drugging career. I'm I'm my I'm I'm what they call a how do I put it? I'm a functioning alcoholic.

Y you'll follow. I'm not losing jobs because I'm drinking. I'm quitting a gazillion jobs because I'm drinking.

I I I would I would be at a penthouse one month and two months later I'm in a garage apartment in the Heights in Houston eating out of dumpsters. Not for a long period of time. Food's not bad.

You if you don't mind fighting a cat for it, it's not bad. I don't Patty's my wife. She asked me, "Why do you hate cats so much?

I tell you what, until you sat in a hot dumpster you with in the middle of the night looking for food and have a cat jump out at you, you don't know what fear is. Somebody came up after some place I was speaking. They says, "Oh, but they're God's creatures, too." I've never gotten that.

Well, guys, I don't know what to tell you. I uh uh I'm sitting on the floorboard that the the floor of my little apartment and I just I I can't do this and I'm humiliated and I'm taking all these medications and I don't have money to pay for them and um uh I was just done. I don't know.

Some of y'all have gotten to that spot. It just I'm done. I've tried AA.

I've tried therapy. I've tried treatment. I've set naked and sweat lodges.

I've I even did colonics one time. Come on, guys. No, get you.

You got to want to get sober bad to do that. I mean, I I got to tell you this. I never stayed sober one day, but my complexion was something else.

I got to tell you, very peakedked up nice. I got up from the floor and uh went to the medicine cabinet, took a couple bottles of pills and uh tried to commit suicide. Absolutely nothing romantic about it.

I was just done. It wasn't that I was I didn't I wasn't hurting that night any more than I was hurting any other night that I was that I was so banged up. I just got tired of letting people down.

I'm I've let myself down a million times, but I can't tell you I'm going to stay sober and watch your face again when I relapse. This is this is this is why I keep doing these from the podium even though some of you get grindy with me is that that that I know the answer. I know the solution.

I've been in Alcoholics Anonymous for seven years. Y'all find this incredulous. I know because you may come from a group where they talk solution, but I'm in a group where there's not a big book in the place and the only thing that you know about the steps is what you can read up on the wall and nobody talks about them.

They talk about their day. They tell war stories. I mean, that's what we do with a newcomer.

Whoa, Chris is coming back. Let's tell us how we how we got here. And then I get to hear all of your damn war stories.

How many DWIs you got? The stuff that you should have been telling me in a 12step call. Now you're telling me as a general fodder in an AA meeting.

I'm just say I'm just saying I I there's nothing wrong with our stories. You better have one if you're going to be effective in this program. You better have a good one.

You with us Friday night from the podium, you better have one. And then in that 12step call, you you need to have if you're going to make get any kind of contact with this newcomer, you need to tell him some stories just what the book says. But why is it that we think it's perfectly okay to go in and waste our hour during the day?

Maybe the only meeting we get a chance to see this guy to tell him one more story. I listen stick with me until I get to the end of this because I want you to understand what I'm saying. I ain't knocking the story.

You're sitting at the picnic table and y'all want to visit a little bit. Let's do that. It's like my same problem with with the problem solving meeting.

Why do we go to AA to fix every problem in the world in in Texas? And I don't know about you guys, but in Texas, you come into my meeting and start talking about crack cocaine, somebody will stop you in a heartbeat. Excuse me.

This is AA. We're here to talk about the problems with alcohol. Oh, yes.

And I'm not knocking that. That's We We're here to talk about alcohol. I don't have a problem with that.

Oh, I'm glad we got that little drug addict out of here. By God, now we can get back to some important stuff. Well, I got a letter from my grandkids the other day.

saying, "Well, you know, this is and the and the the 19-year-old alcoholic sitting in the back detoxing in my meeting quietly gets up and leaves." Do I think you need to talk about those grandkids? You better believe it. Come before the meeting.

Come after the meeting. Call me on the phone. Let's visit.

Let's talk jobs. Let's visit about that. Let's But if you think I'm going to take up an important meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous where we're supposed to be talking about the spiritual solution that's been given to us talking about my not having a job, you don't hold your breath.

The fellowship doesn't stop at the end of the meeting. The fellowship goes 24 hours a day, seven days a week. We're we live in the fellowship.

I got buds all over the world I can talk to. Some of you in this room have been instrumental all my life, all my sober life. But I'm not going to take time in a meeting to do that because I'm supposed to be bearing witness to God's power in that meeting.

People email me from all over. You think every AA meeting ought to be a pep rally? Pretty much.

Oh man. I got up in the medicine cabinet, took those pills, and about the time those they hit my stomach, I heard a voice that said, "Don't do this. Go back to AA." This wasn't a thought.

Perhaps you should give AA another. This was a voice I heard guys and it could have been the guy's vacuum cleaner name. I don't know what it was.

Don't do this. Go back to AA and uh because somebody always asked it was a guy's voice for me. Some of you it seems to be a woman's voice.

I don't know. Lots of people hear that voice. Don't know.

Wasn't it a discussion? Don't do this. Go back to AA.

And that's I'm arguing with a voice. I I'm kicking the ferret cage to see if it's the ferrets, you know. I I I've done aa just like so many people.

I've done I'm 90 meetings in n I'm a meeting making fool and I'm seven years and still don't have a 30-day chip. Went to work the next day. Made myself sick and and I the next morning I heard the voice one last time and I went to uh uh to work and that night at 6:00 I went back uh to an AA meeting.

I'd never been to this meeting before. I'd been to the front of it. a guy 12step me three years before I'd come out of my first blackout and he said Chris let's go to this meeting it's a big book meeting and I just said what's that he said well he studied the literature and um um and I remembered it and uh I was running late and it was between me and the house I'm detoxing and I said I'm going to go to this meeting and then I'm going to go home and chill for the weekend it was Friday the 13th 1987 and I walked in the back door of this meeting I believe it was part of my first piece of my spiritual experience I got out of that truck and walked into a meeting I didn't want to walk into.

Didn't know anybody. Some of y'all know me as shy as I am. And I just did.

I just didn't. No. From the podium, I'm not shy.

If you ever talk to me on oneonone, you better bring a conversation with you because it's not going to be two-sided. Isn't that right? I just I'm horrible.

I'm just I'm inept at conversation. But I um I walked into the room and it was this is back in the day. Some of you some of you new guys remember back in the what used to be you could smoke in every meeting.

They didn't have non-smoking meetings. I mean, goofy people went to non-smoking meetings. We could go We walked into this meeting.

This is why because they all had six or seven cigarettes out of their everybody that smoked had six walked around looked like porcupines just on fire porcupine. Remember the day ashtrays were always full. And I walked in, of course, I got a big a dip in my mouth so big you can't I can't talk anyway, but I'm not a smoker like you people are.

And I and I walked in and everybody was smoking and somebody laughed over there real loud and there's a guy that was chairing knew me and said, "Welcome back." You know, and he and I got so self-conscious and I wish I could I mean I always look a little shady with a patch, but back in the day I had about 30 pounds. It was all right here. I got kidney damage, liver damage.

I got big long hair down to here cuz it's cool. It's so nice. The big beard like gentle bin, you know, kind of a beard, you know, big like always had food in it.

Yeah. I was talking to Dan or one of the guys and that was my big deal. They walk in and said, "Chris, when you first got sober, we didn't know if you were wearing an eye patch or an ear muff cuz it kind of kind of it's a wonder I ever got laid.

I just got to tell you, I I I'll be the first to tell you from the podium. I mean, I was hor I was so self-conscious anyway. And I, you know, I had a little Fruit of the Loom.

Y'all remember the Fruit of the Looms t-shirts with a little pocket on them, you know, you could put your smokes in and wash them about a thousand times in a little pocket. Gradually move to the front right here. So, you got you look you look like a little kangaroo, you know, with a little pocket right in the center.

I'm living from paycheck to paycheck, guys. And oh my gosh. And I walked in and got real self-conscious and I said, "I can't do this." I remember, "I can't do this." And I took a step back and this little girl is she swears she didn't sneak up on me.

She snuck up on my blind side and she hooked her finger in my belt loop and she said, "Sit down, cowboy. You're not going anywhere." And she set me down in a chair. You with us?

Come on. If it had been an old hairyle boy, I'd have just shoved him out of cowboy this. I'm out of here.

And I And I just But this little girl is 19 years old. She'd been sober a year. And and I got to watch her pick up her first year chip a few weeks later.

And I just she said, "Sit down." and I sat down. Her sp her sponsor had seen me across the room and couldn't get to me. And her sponsor had pointed to her and said, "Get him." All right, you can hear it now.

But my sponsor said, "Men work with men and women work with women." She didn't sit down and 12step me, guys. She just was a was a tool, an instrument to get me to stay. If this little girl had been off in some little young adult meeting talking about young adult things, I'd have been young adult dead.

That's just the way it was. I was walking out the door. I'm not knocking.

I'm just saying thank God she was in those rooms. You can grind your teeth about it all you want to. But my life was saved by a little 19-year-old girl that knew her job in Alcoholics Anonymous.

And she sat down and got a roll of paper towels and a cup of coffee and I spilled it and she cleaned it up and I spilled it again and she clean, bless her heart. And they were all laughing, not with me, at me because I'm I'm detoxing hard. Let me cut to the chase.

Chairperson comes up and says, "Oh gosh, we've got Chris back in here. He's been around the fellowship. Guys, let's do this.

Let's let's share how our lives have changed as a result of working the 12 steps." See, he didn't say, "Let's tell Chris how we got here." Because Chris doesn't give a rat's butt how you got here. I've been here seven years. I know how you Let me guess.

You drank too much. Oh my gosh. Come on, guy.

I don't want to hear another war story. Tell me, can you wake up in the morning and not obsess about drinking? Every I got to tell you guys, people are freaked out because they think anybody that's been to treatment knows all the answers to this.

I got to tell you, so many people that come to treatment centers never get to hear a a proper presentation of what the fellowship is really all about. They get to hear a version of it. up.

They all went around the table and they talked about miracles that were happening in their life and they talked about getting their credit cards back and buying new cars and going back to school. There's a lady at the end of sketching and she was a sculptor and I've always been fascinated with art and and she was down there and she said, "This is what I'm doing in sobriety. I'm finally getting to do the things that I've always wanted to go do." Wow.

Not one person complained about their kids or the weed eater that wouldn't start. Not one person told me about a DWI. They talked about the miracles that happened as a result of doing the work.

And the people that hadn't done the steps, shut up. Don't you love it when these people do this nonsense? They come to the meeting like that.

We're talking about four step and they go, "Well, I haven't done a four step, but this is what I think. Don't do that. Don't do that.

It ain't It ain't that important. They went around the room and I guarantee I was sitting on the edge of my seat and after the meeting I picked up a chip and it was an old geyzer. Guys, I got to tell you, he was the nicest guy.

Uh he's um what a wonderful man he was. He's passed away, but he got in my little face. He had him old glasses on like I got like this and he looked over him and he had a big book, old busted up big book.

Y'all know the kind I'm talking about. Had duct tape around it. This this one had actually been opened a few times and um oh my god and he came up and he just asked he said Chris my book asked me to ask you one question and I looked at him and said bring it on.

He said are you done are you ready to do this? I made some horrible mistake of saying well today I am. And he said that's what I thought.

He said Chris we're going to teach you if you want to. We're going to show you how to live life a day at a time. This is not about staying sober that way.

You need to make a commitment. We're going to show you how to do this if you want to do this. And I said, "I'm willing.

I'm ready." And he sat me down and for the first time in seven years, he opened the book. And it took him about five minutes to qualify me. Are you an alcoholic?

Not a hard drinker, not a moderate drinker. He talked about the phenomenon of craving combined with the mental obsession. Have you lost the power of choice in drink?

When you don't want to drink and you and you and you you're detoxed, can you stop and can you stay stopped? And he qualified me. And for the first time, he gave me a case of alcoholism.

And I went, I'm an alcoholic. Come on, guys. I mean, I'd be walking around people telling everybody, "I'm bipolar.

I'm add depressive. I'm borderline schizophrenic." That all rolls off the tongue. You're not any of those things, buddy.

you are untreated alcoholic. We're going to show you how to work the steps quickly. We're going to get you from point A to point B if you're willing.

The next day, they were on my doorstep. They picked me up. They took me back to a meeting after much discussion cuz I was going to detox for a few.

Y'all ever done that? Come in with a head of steam. Now you're going to calm down a little bit.

That's what kills us. Anyway, they came back and they got me and we went in the back room after the 10:00 meeting and we did a third step prayer. And they explained how the third step obligates me to share hope with a newcomer.

And we did a third step. We went to lunch and came back and they gave me a notebook and said, "Chris, while you're home detoxing, why don't you start writing down the people you hate?" And I said, "I'm going to I'm going to put your name on the list." He said, "That's fine with me." Two weeks later, I've got a completed four step. These guys are showing me how to do uh the disciplines of 10-11, daily inventory, a little prayer and meditation, and they showing me how to chair meetings.

For the first time in years, guys, these guys are telling me the straight scoop. Y'all understand, guys? Earlier we were talking about the mixed messages.

Y'all need to understand the big book says in those first days of convolescence, nothing will so ensure your sobriety is working with a drunk. Doesn't mean you got to take them through the steps. If you haven't been through the steps, you can't take them through the step.

But you can turn around and help somebody cuz the only way I can get out of my crazy little head, we're we all get here at Alcohol Anonymous like a bunch of ingrown hairs. You know, it's just we're all turned in on ourselves. And the only way you're going to get well is is to turn around and try to help somebody.

Go make some coffee. Go get up, get your butt out of the chair, and give it to the woman sitting next to you. Whatever you got to do, but think about somebody else for a change instead of just thinking about yourself.

But we kill people. I don't know if y'all do it here in Texas. We kill them by the thousands by telling them that you ain't sober long enough to do anything.

All you need to do is just keep coming to meetings. I'll never forget the old geyser. Ever forget one of those first meetings I went to up in North Texas and he was one of those same guys that had one of them big books all busted up and he came up after the meeting.

He said, "Chris, we're going to go down and have a hamburger and talk about the steps. You want to come?" And I'm thinking, "God damn, this is pretty good." You know, and I and I said, "Yeah, I'll be right there." hair and the lady across the way. I'm looking over her shoulder is the guy's shoulder and she's going, "No, no." And I'm thinking, "Wow, maybe I've got a a blester here or something.

Maybe I this is kind of weird freaking me out cuz this lady was cool. She's all dressed to the nines and she was I I knew the lady and she and I I made an excuse to go. I I got something else to do.

And I went over to the coffee bar and I said, "Baby, what was that about? How come you didn't want me to go with that?" He's got his heart's in the right place, but you don't need to worry about those steps right now. All you got to do is just keep coming to meetings and every day you'll get a little bit better.

See, some of you think that's perfectly good advice to give to a newcomer, but I'm saying was and was she trying to hurt me? Absolutely not. But she but she almost killed me.

She let me off the hook. Guys, I got to wind this down. You guys have been great.

Let me I I want you to get really crystal clear with you what I'm trying to say right now because I love you and I don't want to lose you. See, if if you dodged the bullet and got to Alcoholics Anonymous, we need you to stay. We don't need you to keep going back out and coming back and going back out and coming back.

Because what I get to see in the treatment center industry is a whole lot of people that were sober for a long period of time and now they're not sober anymore. They succumb to a stupid prescription pad. They succumb to other stuff.

There's two things that'll get you loaded, guys, and alcoholic synonymous is complacency and entitlement. Well, I'm sober. 20 years, I don't have to do that anymore, you know.

But that's not what my book says. I wish that was the case. It would be a hierarchy, you know.

God, I'll be glad when I get 25 years so I don't have to do any more 12step calls. But you see, what we're starting to see in the treatment centers now are the people that got sober with us back in the in the 70s and 80s and 90s that have relapsed now, and now they're coming back. And I'm going to tell you, the sad part is most of those people are not making it back in the rooms because the illness has progressed so far.

I'm not willing to take a chance with anybody. You sit on your butt and you think you've got this thing made. Every single guy that comes back in with more than 10 years of sobriety, I've asked him the same question.

Buddy, how many guys were you sponsoring? I've yet to hear one of them say anything but zero. See, I can't live off a spiritual experience I had 23 years ago, folks.

I got to have a current spiritual experience. I said, "I don't know what's coming down the pike. Who knows?

You might get fired someday." And Okay, but y'all understand it. It's It's You show Show me somebody that's making six figures and got a trophy wife and kids and beautiful and everything's like on there. It's easy to come into a meeting and be really spiritual.

Show me somebody out there that living from paycheck to paycheck and the kids are sick and life sucks and it's a it's a bear. That's the person I want to talk to. Because you see, that shouldn't affect your outlook on life if you're spiritually connected.

The the problem is not drinking one day at a time. The problem is staying spiritually awake one day at a time. I think so.

Five minutes and I'm out. I had a uh cuz I can see you twisting. You You need to pee.

Blame it on the readers. I'd have been done already with that. I've said it from a gazillion podiums, folks, but it makes a lot of sense what we're talking about tonight.

There's a lot of people out there that lose their zest for this fellowship. They come in all excited about recovery and then over the period of years and they they they start to lose the complacency starts to set in and everything takes precedence over all the other stuff. And guys, I'm just telling you folks, what we need you to do is get right in the middle of the trench with us.

The cats that I'm talk I I used to ride competitive cycles for years and rode I was never very good. I've got lousy genetics, but uh but I love bicycles. I love cycling.

And over a period of I rode for years and years with guys on the program and and I'd never run a 100 mile ride. Then one day we decided that Chris Rymer and a couple of these other guys that we're going to finally nutted up and we're going to ride a 100 miles. It's no big deal.

It's not like you set the world on fire. You just you just do it. It's kind kind of like losing your virginity.

There's not a lot to it. You just got to do it. And just kind of scary thinking about.

So we set out we set out we set out from this parking lot in Kerville, Texas and we set out with this ride and we head out. We knew it was going to get cold. We all had cold weather gear on and uh we got out about uh we must have been out about 40 45 miles and we're just poking along easing and this cold front hit.

We knew it was coming but we figured as the day was getting longer it would also get warmer and it didn't. It got steady got colder and we're dying out there. got really lousy and a bunch of the people left and we ended up about 75 miles out.

We ended up in this little store and there was about 10 of us left and a couple of people left. They they got on their cell phone and they called somebody to come pick them up. Now I need to tell you if id had a cell phone there was nothing macho about this guys.

I'd have I'd have crumbled like a deck of cards but I I didn't there was nobody to call anyway. And so I was on the bike. I said we're going to go back and there was eight or there's seven or eight of us that we're going to head off.

We're going to go back. We got only got 25 more miles to go. Here's quick story.

We headed out and it was dark already. It's getting dark. We've been at this all day long.

We've eaten all of our food. We are exhausted. Here's what happened, though.

Everybody got in this little ride and we all said, "We're going to we're going to finish this ride together no matter what happens." Okay? So, the hammerheads didn't lead off and and then drop us weak guys. We all left together.

And there were the guys that were pulling. Usually, you trade spots when you're riding. None of that crap.

these heavy head, the younger kids, you know, they were pulling the whole way. There was this one guy, I'll never forget, he had a light on, a flashing light. We called him Firefly Boy because he had a flashing light on his bike.

I mean, we ridiculed this guy mercilessly because he had a flashing light on his bike. Thank God because nobody could see us. The windows, they was misting out there.

He rode the whole way in the back so the cars wouldn't run up on our butts. You couldn't see us out there. There's cattle guards in Texas.

And every time we would hit a cattle guard, guys, at least one of us would fall. At least we'd go on the ground. Everybody would stop.

Everybody would get off their bike. Everybody would help the other one get back on and we would we went on. 25 miles later, we pulled into that Sports Center parking lot.

Little odometer. Click. 100.

We put the bikes on the car, looked at each other, went inside, took a shower, got in a little sauna. Nobody's talking. We're just looking at each other going, "Huh?" cuz we've done this death ride.

You all understand that? >> I ended up because of my travel, I couldn't train anymore. Sold all my bike stuff.

And then years later, about the time I I pushing 200 lb, I said, "I got to get back on a bike." And I got back on a bicycle and I went back out to the same bunch of guys. And sure enough, I pulled up and all of these guys that were on that ride, there was four of them that were on that ride when I was riding. They looked over and said, "God damn, that's Chris Rymer.

Look, look." And they all came up and says, "You remember that ride?" Nobody's saying anything. And we're going, "Huh?" Yeah. And the new guys are coming up and says, "What ride are y'all talking about?" It doesn't matter.

You wouldn't understand. Why? Because you didn't do it with us.

every little big book thumper out there that's ever had his hand handed to him because he's walking with a big book and reading out of the literature, I want to tell you, thank you for standing for something. Thank you for for for carrying a clear un unmuddled up message back to the newcomer. The ridicule that some of us take because we're carrying this message absolutely breathtaking.

And why would you take our inventory? Because you've never been in the trench with us. If you could just go to a bunch of meetings and stay sober, good for you.

But you guys, you don't know what it's like. You go to one of these H&I meetings, you go to one of these jitter joints and you sit out across the table with somebody that's never heard of Alcoholics Anonymous and you sit down with them and you give them the clear message of hope. Tell them that you could recover from this illness.

Watch their little eyes light up as you understand and you explain to them that they can work these steps in in a few weeks, a month at the most for heaven's sakes, just like the early guys in Alcoholics Anonymous. And that you can get well quick and watch the hope come into their face. I guarantee you guys, if that would make you feel as good as sitting around the t I I just shut up and go home.

This is the way to do it, folks. It's the newcomers, guys. It's the old-timers.

It's the people that we get to encourage along the way. Here's what I'm saying to you. We need everybody in this room.

We don't need another Chris Ramer. We got one. We got another Tony.

We don't need another Tony. We got one, John. We don't We don't need We got We need you.

Listen, I somewhere along the line, we've spent so much time in treatment talking about the consequences. I want to write a consequence list. All the stuff that I did.

Listen, that's not who you are. That's not the all the bad things that you did, that's not who you are. Just think from the time you got sober, how many lives have been affected just because you don't drink.

Oh my gosh, buddies. That's what you need to be doing. Two weeks after starting the work with guys on me holding me accountable, I'm sitting on the tailgate of my truck and and I realize that the desire to drink is left.

I've had a spiritual experience. The obsession's gone away. Guys, it never has returned in 23 years.

This is the real deal. This is the place where all the power comes together. This is it.

But you listen to half the people out there in our meetings and it sounds like a some some kind of session. We need to stop it and understand that this is the only game in town. The treatment centers are not fixing this.

I'm not knocking them. I'm in the I'm not not. But these cats leave dry.

They're going to get sober. They're going to come into a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous and hope that you're there. Stop waiting for somebody else to take care of this.

It's the hardest thing in the world to do is to think that you could help somebody. But guys, you need to understand that's how this thing was arranged. I cannot believe the times I've been sitting in a meeting and had somebody coming over and I'm going, "God damn, he's going to he's going to ask me to sponsor him.

I don't I got way too busy. I don't have near enough time to do that. He pushes me aside and gets to my my little sponsy behind me.

You Why does he think of him? I'm the I'm the damn I'm the circuit speaker. What?

I don't know. Hey, wait. And that's how it works is that we all get a chance to do that.

Some people will hear it from me as abrasive as I am. Some I crack them like an egg. And some people you just your gentle kind way just nice and easy just and pretty soon you got them hooked and another life has been changed.

For every one of you old gzers that have been around thank you for staying. I'm going to tell you guys I know exactly how to stay sober 23 years. 24 is a little vague.

Don't know. For every one of you women especially that are staying sober and in the trench and sticking with us. Thank you so much.

Number one email I get from all over the world is from women looking for other women to do the work with. They can't find anybody to sponsor them. They can find lots of people that'll go to lunch with them.

They can't find women that can sit down and show them how to finish a fourth step. And I know this room is full of people that have done that. Women that have done that.

Thank you for sticking every one of you. We need you. Thank you so much.

>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.