Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. We hope to always remain an ad-free podcast, so if you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-onrise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker um for the first time. This is a uh a workshop that's going to be going on for the next um several months.

Uh and it's a workshop which is a repeat workshop from a workshop that Chris and Peter M did up in uh Vermont at the Wilson House. And last week we started off with Peter M. And this week we are fortunate enough to have Chris.

So I'll turn the meeting over to Chris. >> Good evening everybody. My name is Chris.

I'm an alcoholic. >> It's really nice to be here. Um uh thank you all for coming.

Um thank you Bill for uh for doing the taping uh and the sound. It's near impossible to hear in this room without some type of sound system. The acoustics are just bizarrely uh uh whacked out.

So, um, we really do appreciate it when he comes in with his, uh, his sound. I want to thank Peter, uh, who's not here tonight, um, for agreeing to do this both at the Wilson House and, uh, here in Burnersville. Um, I had a lot of fun at that workshop.

Um, the topic tonight is my experience finding recovery in the fellowship. Um, as probably so, so many times with workshops like this, you end up preaching to the choir. Um, the people that need to hear this stuff are usually not the ones that are in the rooms.

U, but, um, sobriety and recovery are really two different things. Um, the way I the way I define it is sobriety is is staying away from alcohol, staying separated from alcohol. But if you're anything like me, just staying separated from alcohol is becomes untenable after a period of time.

Um my emotional state can't take sobriety for long periods of time without some type of recovery. Um let me start um let me start at the beginning with my story. Um, I was doing an inventory several years ago and one of the instructions in that inventory uh with the person that I was going through with uh uh the steps with at the time asks me to uh in my fear inventory to go back to the earliest recollection of every single fear I I inventoried and I remember going back my fear of people.

Um one of the one of the uh promises is fear of people will uh will disappear. uh and it has for me uh which is a which is a great thing but I used to be completely repressed by crowds or having to do any kind of public speaking. It was crippling for me.

It was so uh so pain so emotionally painful. But anyway, my first uh my first and earliest recollection was being dropped off for kindergarten as a kid. Um, I hadn't gotten out much uh on my own at this period of time, you know, so uh I wasn't really used to being tossed out of the car.

And uh I remember my mother opening the door and saying, you know, there's the building, there's your class, see you later. And I remember standing up on the hill uh looking down and there's kids running around playing tag and kickball and they're already having a blast together. You know, they've already integrated.

And I remember I remember uh standing up on the hill looking and just feeling like a you know, feeling like, how am I going to do this? How am I going to how am I going to go down there and be friends with all these people? What if they don't like me?

You know, what if I what if I get in a fight? What if I do something stupid and they mock me out the rest of my life? You know, what if I get ostracized?

I'm thinking like all this stuff. I'm five and and and I know right away that there's something wrong with me because all these kids are having a blast. They obviously don't have that self self uh same self-centered fear that I have.

And I remember from that moment on I had to start acting as if everything was okay. Does anybody in here remember acting as if everything's okay? And inside you're just you're just falling apart.

So, uh, so I began my, uh, my educational experience pretending I I wasn't, uh, wasn't flipped out and trying to do the things that I thought I needed to do to, uh, uh, to get along and to not be made an outcast. Um, my problem at that time was, well, let me tell you what the solution to that to for that kindergarter would have been. couple of shots of whiskey and I would have been the kindergarten kid.

You know what I'm saying? I'd have been able to step out and uh uh the thing was is they they weren't serving uh 5-year-olds whiskey uh in kindergarten in those days. I don't know if they've become more progressive uh but uh they certainly weren't doing it when I was there.

That would have been a solution. It might not have been a functional solution, but it would have been a solution for me because here's what happened. For uh for the next I guess it was seven years, I had to act as if I was okay and I I wasn't suffering from anxiety and everything else.

And one day, a couple of my friends and I decided to cut school, go home uh to my house, take a take a bottle of whiskey down and get drunk. You know, we had none of us had ever gotten drunk before. It was It sounded like a cool thing to do.

It was better than, you know, rolling hubcaps down the road or whatever you did at like uh 12 years old. Uh so we went down uh we went to my house and I remember pulling a bottle of Four Roses whiskey out of uh out of the closet. Now, I don't come from an alcoholic family.

I I certainly feel for the people in this room that come from those hellacious, dysfunctional alcoholic family. I, you know, I grew up in a a a Cape Cod house in Basking Ridge, a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, you know, like, like everything was calm, you know, there was no arguments, everything was it was just like like typical boring suburbia. So, where did my alcoholism come from?

You know, I don't even I don't even really care uh about that that answer today. But I will tell you that after u after I blew the dust off of that bottle and brought it out, I I didn't know anything about drinking at that time. Um except for what I had seen in John Wayne movies.

You remember the John Wayne movies where he'd bust through the saloon door. He'd go up and he'd go, "Bartender whiskey." And the bartender would get like a dirty water glass and a bottle of whiskey and fill it up. And John would just shoot that whole glass down, grab the bottle and go back to the table to play cards or whatever.

So, I guess that's how you drink. So, I filled up these three water glasses with warm four roses Canadian whiskey. Oh my god.

I mean, I didn't know anything about ice or mixers or letting it breathe. So, uh, so I I started drinking and my buddies started drinking. Now, we had two completely different reactions to alcohol.

Here's what happened to them. They had about twothirds of their glass and they'd had enough. You ever drink with people that have enough?

Is that the most obnoxious thing in the world? Sorry, I've had two. Going home to the wife, you know, got to have dinner.

You You crazy. LET'S GO TO THE CITY. You know, I mean I mean that's how I drank.

I I always wanted more from alcohol. Going home, you know. So, but uh but that's really what they did.

They had twothirds of the glass and they'd had enough. Uh I drank my glass. what was left of their glass and as much of the rest of the bottle as I could and I went into a blackout.

Um, it was my first experience with a blackout. Those are fun, aren't they? uh a whole section of time disappears on you where you don't know what you did or or or you know uh you can do some crazy things in blackouts like travel you know you you ever wake up like in Topeka with one shoe you know wondering what the hell you're doing there and of course you got to act like you wanted to be there because you can't look stupid uh but anyway I had a blackout and and I trashed the house.

I made a complete fool on myself and and I I passed out in a field. I remember waking up in a field and having one of those just nuclear hangovers, you know, where you have to stay horizontal for like two days, you know, like you're just poisoned, you know what I mean? And uh here I am, I'm 12 or 13 and it made me unbelievably ill.

But uh I slowly started to forget how ill alcohol made me and I started to remember what it did for me. somewhere into uh somewhere down toward the bottom of that first glass of whiskey, that scared kindergartener that that that was I I was trapped with that in bondage to that scared kindergartener. Well, that disappeared.

This alcohol uh freed me from that. All of a sudden, all the fear, all the anxiety, all the uh the self-esteem issues, all that stuff disappeared and I was larger than life. I was the funniest guy.

I was worth being around. Hell, there were dancing lessons in that four roses whiskey. You know what I mean?

I was I now I now I felt like I thought all of you felt all the time, you know, when you were running around playing tag and kickball. I mean, I thought I had found a solution to my social uh my social in, you know, um uh uh problems that that I was having, my my assimilation problems. So, um, I didn't start drinking every single day, but I started to become preoccupied with alcohol.

I started to to think about where I was going to get it, who I was going to drink it with. I was like 13 and the drinking age was 21. So, there was some logistical things that had to be uh surmounted.

But, you know, the alcoholic is very resourceful and uh I I managed to always get alcohol when I wanted it. Um, and I come from a very smart family. Uh my brother and sister are both PhD uh college professors and my mother and father were both five beta cappa educators and just just way just way overeducated beyond their intelligence.

And uh and as I start drinking as I start drinking I start my my uh my academics start to slip. You know what I mean? It's just not that important to get good grades.

I'm worried about where I'm going to go and who I'm going to be drinking with and all that stuff. So, I ended up graduating high school the second stupidest kid in in the graduating class. >> You got to work for that.

That's like a Dminus minus. You got to be careful not to not to slip too low. But uh I got out of there and the whole time the somewhere along the line my drinking went from preoccupation which was I was interested in doing it and I was planning on doing it and I you know I was beer and wine instead of the four roses and uh every once in a while vodka or u and you know it started to become a part of my life and it talks in the book alcoholics anonymous um about crossing a line and it says a lot of times you cross a line.

You cross the line before you really want to stop. And what the line is is the line, I believe, is is the difference between being preoccupied and being obsessed with alcohol. And I slipped into the obsession uh of the mind.

And really what that is is now I'm hooked so deep into alcohol uh my own unaded will is not enough uh to overcome it. uh I can I can manage short periods of sobriety but I always put alcohol back in my body and and somewhere I crossed I crossed that line and and that's where uh where I I became uh uh seriously actively alcoholic. Uh I believe it was somewhere in high school but I don't know.

Anyway, here I am. I'm an alcoholic and as we all know alcoholism is progressive. Um, it gets worse over any given period of time.

And it did for me. Um, it did. It's slowly though.

I mean, if if it would have happened overnight, it would have caught my attention. But, uh, it's slow and it's almost imperceptible. You get worse and worse as the years go by.

And you you hardly notice it because that's the way you you're used to living. And in the beginning, I I didn't I you know, the I had a lot of fun with drinking. I mean, you you remember the high school parties where, you know, yeah, the rock and roll is on and you know, there's fights and people drinking and you know, uh, people crashing cars and you, you know, you're just having a good time.

I mean, I don't know about I don't know about anybody in here, but I come from a period of time where friends let friends drive drunk, you know, and, uh, those were, uh, those were the early 70s, and that's just the the way it was. I I I totaled nine cars in drunken blackouts. Could you imagine doing that today?

You'd be in like like maximum security or something, you know? They say, "Let me go." Oh, it's just Crash Schroeder again. You know, but um you know, I was always the final owner of every vehicle I ever had.

You know, I got I got sober and I and it was time to sell a car. I didn't even know how to do it. You know, what's a you know, you mean I got to sign a title?

What is that? You know, I didn't know. But uh because they always were the cops had them towed away every time.

But uh but anyway, so you know, I I wasn't really paying a big price. Um I was having a lot of fun and slowly I had some fun and then I started to pay some prices. Um, uh, one of the car accidents I got killed in, uh, actually, uh, I went through a telephone pole and when when the police got there, they had to bring me back with CPR and and, uh, and the shock paddles, you know, clear and, uh, I went I went out again in the, uh, in the ambulance and, uh, this is so alcoholic.

Listen to this. I mean, I have just been killed and brought back to life from drinking and driving. Guess what I did the day I got released from the hospital with bandages on my head, my ribs taped up, I went to the liquor store, got two six-acks of beer, drove down to the park, and started drinking, waiting for everybody to show up.

I mean, it wasn't didn't even cross my mind that there was a pathological problem, you know, and I was uh I was very much caught in. And as alcoholics, you know, we all know we we'll do anything to protect uh our alcohol consumption. We lose families that we love very very much to protect our alcohol consumption.

It's uh it truly is a type of insanity. Now, I'll um I'll skip ahead uh to get to the topic, but I I will tell you about about my last drunk. I mean, I'd gotten worse and worse and worse, and I' I'd uh started a family, had a child, lost that family.

I'd lost about 10 or so jobs. Uh I became near unemployable. um really just living a pathetic life.

Uh I was living in a room in my mother's house and she just didn't have it in her to throw me out on the streets like she should have. You know what I mean? And and here I was.

I was up in that room having a relationship with the bottle. You ever talk to the bottle? You know, it's just you and me, kid.

You know, nobody, YOU KNOW, NOBODY UNDERSTANDS US. you know, WE'RE JUST TOO SPECIAL FOR THIS WORLD, YOU KNOW, and uh just having that relationship with the bottle and and meanwhile, you know, my life has just gotten more and more and more pathetic. Um I wasn't really allowed to see my daughter.

Uh you know, it was just it got really bad. And the final straw was um final straw was I was an electrician. I became an electrician somewhere in this mix, you know.

Can you imagine? You know, me showing up after drinking like a quarter of whiskey. I'm here to wire your house, you know.

Oh my god, who's that? His his hair is sticking straight up, you know. Where'd you get this guy?

Uh I I did stuff like um I did stuff like drill down from the attic into into people's closets and pull their part of their suits up into the ceiling, you know? I mean, one time I I wired a kitchen edition to the wrong panel and it was a timer panel for the hot water heater. So, the kitchen would come on at 8:00 at night and go off at 6:00 in the morning.

You know, people called up my boss and said, "Listen, we we eat at 6:00. This is this is unacceptable." Um, I I mean, you know, I could I could go on and on and on. I I was I was a menace.

And uh I'm looking at Bob here. I I wired half of his house and he's see he's like he's he's wondering when he caught me in my career, you know. Um but anyway, um anyway, I mean my my life had uh my life had gotten very very uh very very pathetic.

And this one day uh I remember uh I remember this this kid Tony was my boss. He was 19 years old. I'm 33.

And the boss puts Tony the 19year-old kid in charge of me at work. I mean, that's how much confidence he had in me, you know. It was a good day if I didn't lose the van or something, you know.

So, so anyway, um this one day I'm putting a ground screw in a in a ceiling fixture box and I'm shaking so bad from the night before. I I keep dropping the screw and I've got the screwdriver and I keep dropping the screw and I look over and he's looking at me. He's looking at me like, and when you're alcoholic and you're you're detoxing, you can hear people think at you.

You know what I'm saying? And I knew exactly what he was thinking. He was thinking, "You pathetic.

Good for nothing. Sorry ass. No account." And I couldn't take that.

I mean, I'd lost a family. I'd gone through the the front window of a car, the passenger window car. I got thrown out of the back window of a car one time.

Got back in, tried to drive home. I had three flat tires. The car was bent like a boomerang.

There was no windows left in the car. It could go about a mile and a half an hour. And I'm going home.

I've I'm in Pittstown. And I've only got 27 miles to go. You know, the cops get me.

WHERE ARE YOU GOING? HOME. WHERE WAS THE ACCIDENT?

WHAT ACCIDENT? I'VE GOT GLASS STICKING OUT OF my head. You know, there's no accident.

Um, have you BEEN DRINKING? I HAD TWO. TWO BEERS.

JUST TWO. I'll tell you what, if you admit to more than two beers, you're not an alcoholic. That's they that's that's not in the big book, but it it should be it should be right there in the chapter to wives.

Uh you know what I mean? >> Does your husband admit to only drinking two beers? Check him in.

Um anyway, so uh so he's looking at me and I just can't take it. I mean, it's s I feel such shame. So, so that night I get drunk and I call up and I I sign myself into a rehab.

It's a rehab that's kind of defunct so I can talk bad about it. It was the one down there in Marstown. And uh and I signed myself in for uh for the 28 days.

And what was unusual about me being in there was I really was the only person that wasn't remanded in there. I mean, I was not uh you know, I was not in there because of a DWI. I was not in there because of an intervention.

I wasn't in there from because of a judge. And I really was the only person in there that like volunteered to go in. And you know how alcoholics are.

I thought I was better than you because I I you know I admitted I was sick or something, you know. I you know you know how we are like we can we can think that because we're worse we're better. You know WELL I CRASHED 10 CARS.

You know I'm a So So anyway, I had the uh the alcoholic ego going on. But I go in I go in there and uh and they start to they start to uh do their thing as rehabs will. And I can remember some of it, not a lot of it.

Uh I remember getting a big book and reading it kind of like a novel. And the only thing I really the only experience I had with it reading it like like it was the Da Vinci Code or something was that every once in a while I'd go, "Ooh, you know that happens to me." And that was my my first exposure and experience to uh to the book. Uh I had a little bit of identification going on.

Uh but basically they had a lot of strange ways of uh of helping you of treating your alcoholism. Um I remember group. Anybody in here ever go to group like in rehab or afterare?

Anything? You sit around in a circle and you talk about your stuff and they're they're they're calling on people or they're going around the circle and you know what you're thinking to yourself, boy, doesn't that shut up. I want to talk.

YOU KNOW, HE'S HOGGING THE TIME. And I would just think that why don't you drink, you know, I'd think it for these people. And uh uh and finally they would get to me and I could talk about my stuff.

And um and today I understand why there's really bad discussion meetings and where that comes from. You know what I'm saying? Let me tell you about Aunt Fanny and Uncle Fud and uh and and you know the the uppidity tennis bro.

You know I mean where that stuff that stuff never ever helped me. I've got to tell you it just kind of separated me because it gave me a lot of stuff to say I am not like you you know. So anyway there was some other things that they did.

Um, I remember wallet making class. That was uh that was special. Um, I think I still have that wallet.

The stitches are a little off, you know what I mean? Um, I remember they asked me to to write my life story. I got to do a life story.

And then I got to present it in in in front of my group sitting on the hot seat. You might as well put a dunce cap on me. You know what I mean?

And I remember uh I remember reading my life story. Now, the thing is I pulled it out. I pulled it out not too long ago.

I was throwing away some stuff and I found it. I had about 40 pages of stuff on like one page. My my writing was like an eighth of an inch to I mean I crammed all this stuff.

It was so I mean I must have been so mentally ill at this time and and they want me to do a life story. So, you know, oh god. Uh I didn't I couldn't read it, you know, but uh but all of these things um really had little or nothing to do with uh with any kind of recovery.

I found out later. Um, but I went through it. Uh, what it did was it separated me from the booze for 28 days and it gave me some knowledge about alcoholism and I got to watch the Father Martin movies which I got to tell you, you know, my first inventory inventory number, you know, resentment number one, Father Martin.

You know, good God, I had to watch so many of those chalk talk movies. I, you know, I wanted to just jump through the projector and strangle that guy. Um, I was a long way from serenity and peace of mind at that time, Dave.

Anyway, uh, anyway, I get out of rehab and listen, I am serious about this separating from alcohol stuff. I'm really, really serious. I signed myself into a rehab.

Okay? After the rehab, they suggested afterare. I'm going and I'm paying like $65 a night, two nights a week to listen to the mutton heads talk about their stuff in a group, waiting for my turn to share, you know?

I mean, that's how serious I was about separating from alcohol. I thought that's what I was supposed to do and that's how I was supposed to uh to do this this thing. And they suggested two AA meetings and I went to uh I went to two Basking Ridge meetings, a Monday and a Wednesday night Basking Ridge meeting.

But I got to tell you, I uh I thought going there and sitting in the chair was going to do the trick. Here's what I thought Alcoholics Anonymous was like. And here's what I thought alcoholism was.

I thought alcoholism was forgetting how bad alcohol is treating you. And if you could only remember how bad alcohol treats you, you won't drink it anymore and you'll be fine. And what I thought AA was, I thought AA was a pep rally.

Yay. Yay. We don't drink today.

And I thought that when we were holding our hands saying the Lord's prayer, it was like a football huddle, you know. All right, everybody. You know, WE'RE GOING TO ONE DAY AT A TIME.

WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IT SIMPLE. WELL, FIRST THINGS FIRST, OKAY, SEE YOU TOMORROW. BREAK.

YOU KNOW, I mean, that's See YOU BACK HERE TOMORROW. and and that's what I thought AA was. And one day, one day I was on my way to an AA meeting and the thought crossed my mind that um it had been almost 90 days since I'd been drunk.

I I don't even really remember what it's like to be drunk. And you know, they're saying some things. I'm not really fitting into this AA subculture.

You know what I should probably do? I should probably drink I should buy a gallon of vodka, drink it, and it'll it'll solve two problems that I have. One of them is remembering what it's like to be drunk.

And the other is I'll feel so bad I'll push back into AA and I'll do everything that I need to do. So in effect, I drank a gallon of vodka to improve my sobriety. Now I didn't have a sponsor at that time.

Now imagine passing that one by a sponsor. You know, here's I got, you know, I got a plan. Anybody in here sponsor?

And and you know, you've got the the sponsory's coming up to you and going, "Hey, I've got a plan." You know, like, "Okay, hold it right there. Tell us your plan. We need to know the plan." Okay?

Because you know as a sponsor that it's that it's the worst plan in the world. Uh and you're going to help them to uh modify that plan as a sponsor. So anyway, uh I got really drunk.

Um, and instead of rushing back to AA, as was my plan, I found it very very difficult. As a matter of fact, I drank nonstop for five months. And the last uh my last drink uh was was where it was Christmas at the Schroers uh 1989.

Uh my mother was there, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uh cats, you know, the whole thing. Uh, it was Christmas, so the stockings were hung by the chimney with care and the the the Christmas tree was up and there was candles and mistletoe and ule tidings and everything. And I go into a drunken, raging blackout where I threaten all their lives.

I'm going to kill all of you. Going to kill you. This is all your fault.

And um, that wasn't really the festive type of atmosphere that they were all looking for. So that, you know, and they really didn't want to see me drink myself to death because this was a bad one. This was a bad tear.

And so they picked up and they moved their Christmas to upstate New York. Thank you. Uh I come out of this blackout.

I come out of this blackout and um and there's a pile of vodka bottles in the sink. I don't even remember buying. I I mean I must have been staggering because I used to buy a bottle at a time.

Any smokers in here buy one pack at a time because you're going to quit tomorrow, you know? Well, that was me with the booze. I should have been buying it by the by the tandem load, you know, to save money.

But but I was I'd always buy one bottle at a time. Uh so I must have staggered up town, you know, 30 times buying these bottles. That must have been a pretty sight.

But anyway, um I come out of this blackout and it's it's it's the jumping off point that it talks about in this book. Um I couldn't imagine living life without alcohol, but I couldn't imagine continuing to put it in my body. And I wished for the end.

I remember saying a prayer, God, either kill me or allow me to get sober. I can't live like this one more day. I can't.

This is this is more than a human being should be forced to endure. And after saying that prayer, um that that was the last uh last drink really. So, uh I am certainly one that believes in prayer.

Now, I started going uh started going to AA meetings. Um, I would switch I would switch groups a lot because I would get a resentment against a person or persons. Anybody in here ever do that in a meeting?

You ever say you ever say to yourself that horse's ass is going to share? He's got his hand up. God damn it.

I'm going to have to listen to that hypocritical bastard. You know, I can't believe it. And I guess nobody else in here has ever ever done that.

certainly unique. But anyway, I would have to change groups because I would resent myself out of a group because I had no tools. I hadn't been exposed to to the to the stamps yet.

Um, what I was doing was I was I was meeting dependent. And I'm not critical of that. I'm just saying, you know, uh, some of us are meeting dependent before we can experience recovery.

That's a good thing. The bad thing is is if you're stuck in meeting dependency and you're not exposed to recovery, uh you you can uh you know, you can suffer uh you can suffer in these rooms. Uh you can go insane in these rooms going to a meeting a day for eight years.

I mean, it it happens. Uh >> we uh we chirp like squirrels without uh without recovery if uh if we're just trying to do it uh by not drinking. Anyway, um anyway, uh so here I I'm in I'm in the groups I'm going to uh well I shouldn't name the groups should I if I'm going to be critical of themersville you know places like that and and uh they're really more about they're really more about sharing you know sharing uh let's let's share uh which again you get a lot of wisdom teaching you you get a lot of uh a lot of good information and uh and there are really really good people and there's really really good sobrieties in those meetings.

Uh the problem is is if you're a sick alcoholic, it's going to be very difficult to pick out the good from the bad. You know, I I listen to I listen to a lot of people who uh you know, who really didn't have a clue early on. And luckily, I had a decent sponsor and he would he would pull me out of the ditch uh quite often.

But fact of the matter is is I didn't really I wasn't really being exposed to the steps. Um back at this period of time it was uh it was um you could you could experience something like this. Um I remember I remember asking in a meeting in a step meeting, well how exactly do you do the four step?

Because I couldn't figure it out from the stepbook. I was just going to step meetings. I wasn't going to any big book meetings.

I remember going how exactly do you do you do you set about actually doing the four step? And I remember a guy going you do a fourep with a pencil. I'm like, "Well, thank you for that." Uh, I I learned later on that he didn't have any idea how to do a fourep or else he wouldn't have said something like that, you know.

But, uh, but so I got my pencil and uh I opened up the stepbook and somebody mentioned something about a big bug and a big book. I opened that up and you know uh and I tried to do a fourep because it was being suggested to me by by a sponsor. Uh that particular sponsor wasn't showing me how to do it.

was suggesting that I do it. So, I put together this this hodgepodge of of stuff. What it was was it was it was another uh another attempt at putting together a life story.

It was a list of uh dirty rotten things that I had done that I had never told anybody. And it was uh it was a list of of character defects that I had recognized in myself. Uh, can you imagine a really sick alcoholic deciding all those things for himself?

And I put it all together in this this thing that I I hid underneath the spare tire in the trunk of my car for like three months, you know, until I got a chance to do a fist. And I went and I did a fifth step. And, you know, I got a whole lot of relief.

I got the relief from that exercise. It was confessional. It was not a fourep.

It was confessional. and I got the relief that you get from something that's confessional and it gave me it gave me a shot in the arm. Now, um I'm struggling.

I've got to tell you. You know that scared kindergartenner? He's all over me.

I'm in aa I'm going to anywhere from from 7 to 12 meetings a week because I I was I had times in between jobs. You know how that is when you're in early sobriety. you have those times between jobs.

Uh, and you're going to noon meetings and night meetings. Well, I was doing that a little bit here and a little bit there. Um, so I was going to a lot of meetings now.

I was a secretary at this meeting. I was making coffee over there. I was a no-show gsr over here.

Anybody take the no-show gsr position for a while. I I said that at a group one time and this this uh this DCM came up and just reamed me out. Oh man.

But that's uh I'm in district 18. What can I tell? No show GSR.

So, uh, so anyway, uh, we've got something like 93 home groups and there's like two GSRs or something when I was there. Anyway, not that we judge. Um, but I'm doing all these things.

I'm going to the rehab that I was at and I'm picking up uh the the rehab people and driving them to meetings. I mean, I'm doing everything I can do. I'm I'm cooking I'm cooking shellfish at the rehab picnic until my eyes are sweating, you know, from the smoke and I'm doing all these things that I really find uncomfortable because I'm really really willing to stay separated from alcohol.

I'm desperate to not put that stuff in my body again. Just tell me what to do. Now, I had this uh I had this friend uh Radio Shack Mike.

Um a lot of people had nicknames back when uh when I was getting sober. And in an inventory, I found out why there there was like bummed out Bob and Evangelical Andy and you know, Radio Shack My Fish Food Phil and and uh I realized one time why had why they had nicknames. It's cuz I was nicknaming him.

You know, it's a Radio Shack Mike hasn't worked at Radio Shack in 16 years. You know, he's still being called Radio Shack Mike. Anyway, poor bastard.

Uh did I ever make amends for that? I don't know. I better uh anyway.

Anyway, um I'm doing everything that I'm being asked to do, but but this guy, Radio Shack Mike's, uh he's a he's one of those guys that listens to tapes and um he gave me a set of tapes from a a couple of guys from Arkansas. Okay, I don't know about anybody else, but I hate people from Arkansas. I mean, this is I mean, I don't I don't really mean that.

I mean, this was my prejudice at that time. Arkansas. Arkansas.

What is somebody from Arkansas going to teach me? People from New Jersey do more thinking before 9:00 than an Arkansasian does all day for God's sake. You know, and uh and I was I was really skeptical about these tapes because he had given me some tapes before.

He gave me some affirmation tapes. They were uh they were tapes that that said uh you know, repeat 50 times in front of a mirror until you actually believe it. Chris, you're a wonderful guy.

So, I tried it one time. I'm like, "Chris, you're a wonderful guy. Chris, you're a WONDERFUL GUY.

I get it." You know, throw the tape machine on the floor. I mean, I'm an alcoholic. Trying to treat alcoholism with affirmations is like trying to stop a semi with a cobweb.

You know what I mean? But, uh, you know, so I was I was distrustful at this point in time. But, uh, but I had a long ride to work.

So, uh, so I got the Joe and Charlie tapes out and I started to listen to them and, uh, like I'm I'm unreovered at this time. I'm sober, but I am I I have untreated alcoholism coming out my ears. So, it's very very difficult for me.

You know, we do a we do a set aside prayer at the beginning of this meeting. Uh, and that's not in the big book, but where that comes from is there's a number of places in the book Alcoholics Anonymous where it says things like we we beg of you to lay aside any prejudices you may have. several lifelong conceptions might need to be thrown out the window.

Uh contempt prior to investigation can can keep you in in everlasting ignorance. There's areas in the book that really suggests that we need to become open-minded on certain things, spiritual matters and uh the set aside prayer which is really it's a living document. Each each group can do it.

I mean it's not like uh it's not uh set in stone. uh each group or each person is free to interpret it how however they want to, but it's an important concept. Uh and so I was slowly uh slowly becoming open-minded with these uh these Joe and Charlie tapes.

And I started to listen to them. And the first resentment I got was this. This is the message that they gave me.

Chris, you do not have a program. You're in the fellowship. All the things that you're doing is fellowship, and you're doing some kind of service, but you're certainly not carrying the message.

You're bringing the you're bringing the boobies uh from the hatch to the meetings, but you know, you're not you're bringing them to the message. You're not carrying the message to them. And uh you don't have a program.

Uh you're all the stuff you have is a fellowship. And you know what? The program is in the book Alcoholics Anonymous.

And if you don't follow the instructions in the book Alcoholics Anonymous, you don't have an AA program. So when you drink, please don't tell anybody that AA didn't work because you did not work AA. And this was kind of the message that that I got from this.

Now, obviously, I got a resentment. Column number one, Joe and Charlie. Column number two, know-it-alls.

Who the you know the hell, you know, how the hell they know, you know? So, but but anyway, you know what I'm saying? But, but it haunted me.

This message haunted me. I immediately threw it aside because the meetings I was going to at that time, nobody was pounding the big book who wasn't looked at like they were a circus clown or something. You know what I mean?

There was a couple of guys coming into meetings and you know there's somebody go hey there's what's his name and he's got the big book with them you know better stay away from him like you're a leper or something. So there really wasn't anything like that going on at this time. So but the message haunted me cuz cuz the truth will haunt you as an alcoholic.

Now um I was going through some rough times. There were some things that u things that came up in my life that caused me a great deal of emotional uh stress and I knew I just knew I was getting very very close to a drink. I I mean that that that uh alcoholic clock was ticking in me and I just knew that I wasn't going to be able to take the emotional pain much longer.

And you know um um what I did was I took these tapes back out. They'd been on the shelf for about three months while I was resenting them. I took them back off the shelf.

I opened up the book Alcoholics Anonymous and I started listening to these Joe and Charlie tapes and I started to do the exercises. I started to do things the way they said to do it very mechanically, you know, uh not not like well there's as many programs as there are people in AA, you know, you take it cafeteria cafeteria style. The problem with cafeteria style is all I ever wanted was the brownie ala mode.

You know what I mean? I didn't want the vegetables. So, so the the the thing that I did was I I actually said, "Okay, uh, you know, I'm going to try this." And I I found out a number of things um that were significant that scared kindergartener uh that started to dissipate those those emotional feelings.

I I some of the promises there are many many promises in this book. Some of the promises really started to uh to take place in my life. And I was sponsoring by this time because I gave good share.

You know, you know what I mean? You ever see somebody who's like sub sri, you know, their recovery is like in the toilet, but they but they're they're good to listen to. That was me.

I gave good share. So, so sometimes the tugboats that blow the most steam pull the boats. So, I had two or three sponses.

Uh, and they were drinking on me, you know what I mean? Making me look bad. You ever have sponsies drink on you?

That's disconcerting. You know, somebody comes up to you meeting, hey, hey, is Henry yours? Do you know he's drinking?

YOU KNOW, HE'S DRINKING AND HE'S BORROWING MONEY AND YOU KNOW, what do you do? What do you say to that? So, so I'm being I'm being made to look bad.

So, I remember the first guy uh Pat's in here. He was like the second or third guy. Where the hell's Pat?

Yeah. He's he's lucky to be alive cuz he was like a he was like a he was a practice case. Uh but uh but anyway, this is this was like 199495 and I was bringing people over to my house and we were going through the book Alcoholics Anonymous page by page, line by line, instruction by instruction.

And you know what? You know what I found out? The people that went through that process, every one of them is still around.

Not only that, every one of them is a member in Alcoholics Anonymous in good standing. Their quality of life is out the roof and they're all working with others. They all have sponsies and they're all active carrying the message.

Now, that's that's significant. That's what uh that's what the recovery process can offer you. Uh I normally don't do this.

Uh I will warn you, this is non-conference approved material. My my god, you don't make a cross. Uh this is a book called Slaying the Dragon.

All right. What it is is it's a it's a it's a history of alcoholism and drug treatment over the course of the last several hundred years. And I've I've got to tell you, um, there's nothing in this book, nothing in this book that showed any real signs of success until the 12step process uh came on the horizon with uh the meeting of uh of Dr.

Bob and Bill. There were other religious organizations that had some temporary results with some spiritual programs, but there was nothing as significant as as AA until this time. You know what some of the treatments for alcoholism were at the beginning of this century in the 20s and 30s?

How about frontal lobe labbotomy? Okay, how about that? How about if you How about if your bottom was 60 years ago they cut your your your forehead off and scooped out a part of your brain to keep you from drinking?

How about that? There was I mean there was unbelievable treatments for alcoholism. One of them, one of them, uh, this is over in, uh, this is over in France, uh, in in the 1800s, they would, they would actually lock you up in these things.

They, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they look like mummy cases, and, there was like a little little window with bars, and they would lock you up in these sarcophaguses and just shove food through through to your to your face. And they knew that if they ever let you out, you would escape and go get drunk. So, they kept you in these coffin-like structures.

That was alcoholism treatment. You know how lucky we are to have Alcoholics Anonymous and 12step recovery program. Anyway, um I am I am unbelievably grateful.

Alcoholism is a progressively fatal illness. I'm I'm not one of the people that call it a disease. I'm not going to argue with you that it is or it isn't a disease.

It it's a controversy and I don't want to go near it, but it is an illness and it is a malady like it talks about in in the book Alcoholics Anonymous. Um and it's a it's a progressively fatal illness. There's not too many progressively fatal illnesses that have the benefits to to their recovery pro process that Alcoholics Anonymous does.

You know, our quality of life increases if we all across the board if we engage in the the 12step recovery process. You really can't say that for for uh uh for a lot of other illnesses, the you know, cancers or any of the other illnesses. So, I really think we're lucky.

Anyway, um a little bit more of my story. Um as I started to take people through through the steps over at my house, a group of people kind of formed. I think it was Thursday night and uh a lot of people were coming over and we were all going through the book together started two or three people.

It ended up six, eight people sometimes. And uh one of the individuals that uh uh one of the individuals that went through the steps, here's how it happened. Uh, I knew his sponsor and his sponsor was having a hard time with him and his sponsor said, "Hey, Chris, would you take my sponsor through the steps?

I know you got that thing going on over your house." So, he sent them over to me and we went through the steps. Uh, he got to an amends. There was like 93 amends he had on his amends list.

And he just started knocking them all out. And anybody in here who's either experienced it or seen people experience that level of intensity with amends know that your whole life opens up. I mean, your whole spiritual life blossoms.

He did 90 some of these amends. And his sponsor comes up to me. He goes, "Chris, whatever the hell you did with that guy, would you do it with me, too?" And I said, "Sure." And he starts coming over.

Well, he this individual knew a priest. And the the priest was exposed to the recovery process after this guy went through the steps. He got a job.

Uh he got his license back, you know, he got into a relationship and got married. A whole real lot of good things happened to to this sponsor who went through the steps with me in a very short period of time. So this priest started asking questions.

What the hell happened? Well, you know, I'm going through the steps with this guy named Chris. He goes, "Where can I find that guy?" And he goes, "Well, I hear he's he's speaking up in NetCong on Thursday." So the that that particular priest goes up, listens to me speak in Netcon, and after the meeting comes up to me and says, "Listen, whatever you're doing up in your room at your house taking people through the steps, I want you to do that at my church.

You can have any night. I don't care about rent. I want it to be part of my church's mission.

Would you please do that?" Uh, I had some hesitation to that because what it was was I was reading from the big book, showing people the mechanics of recovery. Back in the early 90s, that really wasn't wasn't done. I mean, you're you would be a know-it-all or you know, who the hell is it?

Chris is up there teaching people AA. Who the hell is this guy? So, I mean, I was worried.

I knew I was going to get beat up, but but but this but I mean, what are you going to say? Hey, a priest comes up to me and says something to you. I mean, you know, I've gone through the steps.

I know that there's some divine stuff going on in my life. So, I agree to it. And um that's where this meeting started.

This meeting started back in very late 1997 uh downstairs and and it's become uh what it's what it's become today. Now, one of the interesting phenomenons of North Jersey Alcoholics Anonymous is um somewhere around 10 or 12 years ago, there was very little uh big book recovery. Very little fundamental go through the instructions in the book Alcoholics Anonymous Recovery.

It was more the oral tradition variety where if you had a really good sponsor, he'd give you some wisdom teachings. He'd he'd expose you to some exercises. And if you had a good sponsor, you'd probably be okay.

if if you had a horse's ass as a sponsor, you were in some real trouble. So, uh um so this group, the Berkeley Heights group, uh one in Hacketttown, a couple of groups were instrumental in in starting this kind of thing where we really focus on the on the recovery. We really focus on the solution.

It's not really a meeting where you share about your day. It's more about uh being exposed to the recovery process and the pendulum has started to swing in North Jersey AAA. There's a website where all the new meetings post their flyers.

Has anybody seen that? Well, check it out. Four out of five, am I right, Bill?

Four out of five of those meetings are big book meetings. They're big book uh studies. They're big book presentation meetings.

They're big book workshops. I mean, the pendulum is swinging. Now, what we're really hoping for, at least what I'm hoping for is there for there to be a balance for anybody that comes into Alcoholics Anonymous to be able to be exposed to the really good recovery stuff, the the stuff from the big book and really good AA because there's really good AA out there.

There's good speaker meetings, there good step meetings, there's good discussion meetings. So, you know, I really think that what's happening now is this renaissance with the big book uh and the recovery process that's really touched almost every group in New Jersey. I think what's going to happen is there's going to be a really healthy balance.

You know, it's going to come out in the wash and uh it's going to AA is going to be better for it. Uh your chances of staying sober and surviving going into Alcoholics Anonymous as a page 21 real alcoholic is going to be improved. And uh you know that's that's really uh really what I'm what I'm hoping for.

No longer do I have to put on my resentment list those sons of that don't have to do the work. Anybody in here ever have to do that? Those bastards that don't have to do the steps in the meetings.

I don't have to put that in my first column anymore. I have come to peace with everybody and everyone in Alcoholics Anonymous and all the meetings, you know. Uh so uh I'm very very grateful uh for that.

I'm grateful for everybody that's here tonight. It's 9:00. We've got 15 minutes.

We can Anybody wants to share, anybody uh wants to ask questions, anybody wants to criticize or rebut, uh now is your chance. Thank you. >> Yes, we have a hand right there.

Uh, Bill, you're gonna have to help me out with that. >> NJA, it's North Jersey. It's the area4.

>> Thanks, Bill. >> Yes. All the way in the back.

Rob. >> Hey, Rob. story.

Everything Mhm. >> Rehab versus >> >> Nice. >> Yeah.

>> Sure. Um uh repeat the question. >> Yeah.

Uh the format for this meeting and what we have planned is basically um uh what we're going to do is Peter's going to get a chance to go through steps one through three his experience. I'm going to get a chance the following week to go through one through three. Uh then he or I will do uh steps uh four through six.

And we'll each take a week to do that. We'll each take a week to do seven through nine. We'll each take a week to do uh 10 through 12.

And then we have a real fun uh question and answer and wrap up where we both sit up here at the table and uh um you know take everybody's inventory. Um Bill uh Bill sent out uh the actual the the dates and everything. Uh you can >> go to that website.

>> Yeah, you can go to you can go to the website and actually get it. I think yes over there. >> I think one of the saddest things like enough realize.

got married. And I see I go to a lot of the area people actually because it's sicently worse. >> Well, um certainly if if you're alcoholic, you have a spiritual malady.

And if that spiritual malady isn't treated, your your spirit is going to grow sicker and sicker. Um, going to meetings and not drinking is not the treatment for alcoholism. Okay?

It's what it'll do is it'll create u a temporary period of sobriety where if you're lucky enough, you'll be exposed to recovery. Uh, that that's that's my look on it. Um, there's also something that I didn't talk about, and I get a lot of criticism for this, too, but I don't really care.

Um there's a scale in alcoholism. It talks about it in a number of different places in the big book. In the chapter to wives, there's uh 1, two, three, and four.

And it talks it says no matter how far down the scale you have gone, you'll find that your experience can benefit others. And then there's another part in the book where it says your your ability to uh uh stop drinking on your own unaded will is is directly proportional to how far down this how far how much control you have lost. So all of these things lead me to believe all this information in the book alcoholic synonyms leads me to believe that some of us are sicker than others as far as our alcoholism is concerned.

And um I I don't want to do this but I'll do it. Let's trivialize it by saying number one is somebody that had a little bit too much wine at the church social and shows up at the Friday night meeting. And number 10 is the person that's been, you know, homeless and and in rehabs and treatments and and and have 14 different sponsor and has really tried and never been able to get sober.

Okay, so there's a scale of 1 to 10. I believe that the people uh from like one to four or five are okay with oral tradition AA, you know, there's a lot of people that come into AA and don't get involved in the book and don't sponsor people and their lives get better. The only thing I can believe is they haven't gone down the scale that far.

They're not as sick as I am. I gotta tell you, if I don't do the whole deal, I'm somewhere around eight or nine. I mean, I literally I literally have to be medically detoxed when I pick up a drink.

I mean, the whole nine yards. I have delirium tremens. I see demons.

There's animals running around. You know what I'm saying? It's not pretty.

It's not pretty. I projectile vomit. You know, I I I date uh Hell's Angels women.

I mean, you know what I'm saying? It's just really really ugly. And uh not that there's anything wrong with that.

Uh but uh oh god. Anyway, uh I'm you know I'm uh obviously I'm kidding about certain things, but uh am I going to get out of this Dave or not? No.

All right. I'm I'm I'm stuck. I'm in it.

All right. Anyway, uh anyway, uh I mean I'm like an eight or a nine. I've got to have the whole deal.

I've got to have the spiritual awakening at depth. I've got to have that profound uh uh rearrangement of my attitudes and my ideas and my outlook and my actions. I really need the real deal to be able to survive.

And most of the people that come up and say, "Chris, will you sponsor me?" Neither been through a lot of a lot of things and they, you know, they haven't they haven't really been successful. So, um I don't know if that touches on your question at all, but that's that's kind of the way I I see things. Uh if you're if you're a page 21 alcoholic, you you don't have any choice, man.

You have to do this deal or at best you're going to remain sobriety. You're going to remain sober and real cranky. You know what I mean?

And your quality of life is going to really suck. So, uh so get involved in this, man. Get get active.

You know, there's a bunch of different kinds of drinkers. There's drinkers who you you go into a bar, there's drinkers who will sit there and just kind of cry in their beer. There there's drinkers that'll get like amorous and, you know, try to get romantic.

And then there's drinkers THAT'LL GO, "LET'S GO TO THE CITY." YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THAT'S that's the kind of drinker I am. You got You got to be You got to be like that mad dog in AA2, you know?

LET'S GO TO THE BIG BOOK, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, you gota you got to be like that to to because because I'm telling you, it is it is unacceptable for me to have anything except a really really good time in this life. I may only get this one shot, you know?

I mean, uh uh there's there's uh Buddhist and Hindu beliefs that uh you could come back a roof rabbit or something, but I'm not I'm not counting on that. Uh I'm figuring that maybe I only got this one shot. I don't want to waste it.

I want to have a really good time. And you get involved in the recovery process and your whole life will open up and you get I think you'll get 200 promises coming true and u you know it's worth it. Yes, Marty.

>> Thanks so much. I know in my soul screaming crazy sometimes crazy stuff really people who scale want to save the next 10 years of my own know what is a technology that you can say it's aggressive. It's going to get worse and you know >> um I think it's I think it's essential for each of us to be convinced of our first step truth.

It's the first step truth that paints us into a corner and allows us nothing but a spiritual awakening as the treatment. Okay. So how I'll you know sometimes I can help somebody come to their truth by presenting the right questions not necessarily the right answers but the right questions.

U there's some exercises like the Bill Wilson exercise highlight everything in the first eight pages that you relate to his drinking uh there's the the four categories in the chapter to wives have them have them look at that. Uh certainly the early chapters in the book uh more about alcoholism and there's a solution talk uh at length about about uh you know the the different individuals uh in there that uh you know the the Jay Walker uh you know uh the man about 30 Fred you know all of those are examples of people who thought they could still control their alcoholism. Our hats are off to them if they can.

Um, if if you find that you cannot stay separated from alcohol and and uh your life your life is unmanageable, um, we have a we have a solution for you. Um, I it's hard for me. Every once in a while I'm successful at talking somebody into seeing their own problems when they're when they're not yet ready, when they're not really willing.

Sometimes you're successful at that. But uh I I think for the people to get through the steps, I'm more interested in working with somebody who's going to get through the steps today that I am interested in talking somebody into believing they're an alcoholic or talking them into to joining my AA group. I'm really more interested that they that they get the recovery experience.

And uh sometimes along the way, you find out that they're not alcoholic when you're working with them on the first step. That's happened to me three times. I've I've been working on the first step with people and I f I found out two guys were drug addicts and and had real no no alcohol history at all.

No problem with alcohol. And one one guy was was just a nut and uh you know and I'm like I'm like look uh you know the the psychopath anonymous meeting is uh is down the road. get, you know, quit taking up a chair, you know, but uh um but you know, I I think I think that once once you intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffle you, you intuitively know how to handle the people that you're working with.

Because I'll tell you, we're none of us are smart enough to say the things that we say to people when we're working with them, but we we end up saying the right thing to the people who are ready and willing. Yes, >> Henry. >> Thank you.

What do we got? A minute or two? Got time for one more.

Yes, in the back. you know, uh, >> repeat the question. >> Uh, basically the question the question was, how do you handle somebody who's just a drug addict or may not uh look like they actually qualify for AA and they're in AA and they're you're working with them, you know?

Um, it's very controversial topic. Uh, I I do want to say that I don't I I I you know, really um it's up to each of us. I've made exceptions and I've worked with drug addicts quite a few times and taken them through the steps and I've found that I didn't get a lot of a lot of success with that.

Um I really think if if you're a drug addict, you should go through the steps with a drug addict. I mean, if if I get if I find a drug addict, there's many of the guys I sponsor are both drug addict and alcoholic. I'm not.

when the time came to separate from drugs, I did it and I didn't have to go to to LSD anonymous or, you know, or I mean or marijuana anonymous. I mean, I was able to back away from them, you know, when when uh when the time came. Um, but there are a lot of people whose experience is different than that.

I think that we wherever we're going to be, if you're if you're a drug addict and you choose to go into AA and identify yourself as an alcoholic, you know, whatever. Um, but I truly believe that you need to understand your own first step truth for you to have the power to go through the steps and then you need to work with other people that have the same problem that you have. Uh, so, you know, whenever today when when when I get drug addicts that want to go through the steps with me, I I'll send them to I'll send them send them to Pat.

I'll send them to Ray. There's a lot of guys that that I know. Not to point you out.

Um, I I'll send I'll send them to people who have who have a have the right kind of experience, but I am not the AA police. I I really don't I really don't kick anybody out. If you're working with me and we discover your truth, I'll I'll tell you what you what I think you should do, but but I I don't make judgments.

I can't see inside somebody's heart and really really see what's really going on with them. So, you know, I am I'm not I don't uh I don't want to point anybody out as you belong and you don't belong. That's that's really not for me.

Uh it looks like we are at the hour. Are we at the hour, Dave? Okay.

Um we have a nice way of closing. Come. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.