Sober Sunrise – Clancy I. – Venice Beach, CA – 2017
AA speaker Clancy I. shares his 60+ years sober, from denial and anger at God to acceptance through sponsorship, step work, and service at the Midnight Mission in Venice Beach.
Clancy I. from Venice Beach, CA spent nearly a decade in and out of AA, unable to believe he was an alcoholic and furious at God after losing his son. In this AA speaker tape, he describes how a no-nonsense movie-actor sponsor forced him to actually work the steps, take his Fifth Step on the coast highway, and slowly discover that acceptance—not perfection—was the key to staying sober for over 60 years.
AA speaker Clancy I. shares how he rejected both his alcoholism and God for almost 10 years, cycling in and out of recovery, until his sponsor challenged him to “act as if” he was an alcoholic and take the steps seriously. Through working Steps 1-3 without fully believing, taking his Fifth Step roadside, and making amends to people he’d harmed—including traveling to Dallas and returning to university to face the chancellor—Clancy gradually shifted from denial to acceptance. His long-term sobriety (since 1958) and decades directing the Midnight Mission in Venice Beach show how service work and reliance on a sponsor as a higher power can sustain recovery even when the God concept remains difficult.
Episode Summary
Clancy I. has been sober since 1958, and his story is a masterclass in how belief and acceptance don’t always come first—sometimes they come last, after you’ve already done the work. When he arrived at AA, he faced two seemingly insurmountable obstacles: he didn’t believe he was an alcoholic, and he was angry at God. Decades earlier, while in jail, he’d been told his son had died. He cursed God in that moment, and that anger became a wall between him and any spiritual path. “If you don’t believe you’re an alcoholic, this good stuff won’t work,” he says plainly. “And if you’re angry at God, you’re not going to pray.”
His sponsor was an actor and old-timer named Bob (Clancy refers to him by first name only, honoring anonymity). Bob didn’t argue with Clancy or try to convince him of anything. Instead, he assigned him actions: “Come to 6 o’clock. Get in the car.” Bob would drive him to meetings, speak himself, and on the drive home would talk about God and spiritual experience. Clancy hated it. But Bob was unshakeable. When Clancy complained that his real problem wasn’t alcohol but his unbearable emotions, Bob listened and then said something that stuck: “Alcoholics are people whose problem is alcohol. Alcoholics are people whose answer is alcohol. If alcohol is your answer, you’re in trouble.”
Clancy decided to “pretend to be an alcoholic” and follow Bob’s directions. This simple act of willingness—not belief, but willingness—became the turning point. He took the First Step by adopting the role. He took the Second Step by accepting Bob as his higher power. He took the Third Step by doing what Bob told him to do. All three steps happened without ceremony or full conviction, but they happened. “If you’re not an alcoholic,” he explains, “you won’t do these embarrassing, humiliating things. But if you are, they seem reasonable.”
The inventory came later, written in a moment of despair after being fired from a dishwasher job and feeling like a complete failure. He scribbled it out in anger at the AA club, and Bob took him on the coast highway to Oxnard to hear his Fifth Step. In the car, flashlight in hand, Clancy read about being a sneak, a liar, a cheat, a thief. When he finished, Bob said simply: “That’s the best thing you’ve done since you got sober, kid.” No drama. No tears from Bob. Just acknowledgment.
The amends were real and humbling. He saved money washing dishes and took a bus to Dallas to find a man whose truck he’d wrecked. He stood there and said he’d pay it back, a dollar a month for life if necessary. The man’s response—”I thought you were a bum then, I think you’re a bum now”—didn’t break the amends. The point was accountability, not gratitude.
Later, a different sponsor, a man named Chuck Chamberlain, slowly convinced Clancy that God was his friend, not his enemy. But even then, Clancy’s relationship with prayer and meditation remained practical rather than ecstatic. He prays at bedtime for knowledge of God’s will and the power to carry it out. He meditates briefly in traffic. He’s not a meditator by nature—he’s a Type A personality—but he does it.
Clancy’s service work at the Midnight Mission in Venice Beach has been his living amends for nearly 50 years. He was physically thrown out of that mission as a homeless man in 1958. Years later, when the director died, he took the job—trading a six-figure income for $8,000 a year. He straightened out their finances, worked through their bureaucratic mess, and stayed. He’s been there ever since. He’s had people in his office denounce him, cry, and leave—only to come back sober years later. Every person he’s sponsored has sat in his office at the Midnight Mission thinking “why doesn’t this old fool die,” but they stayed sober.
He closes by reflecting on the founding of AA. He met Bill W., spoke at an AA anniversary in Akron, Ohio—the 82nd anniversary of June 10, 1935. In less than a century, a fellowship of 2 million sober members has spread to 150 countries. Before 1935, he says, no one like them was sober. “What we’re going to do is find out how they stay here and cherish it.”
His final advice is blunt: “Listen to your sponsor. If you don’t have confidence in your sponsor, get a different one.” He remembers lying awake plotting how to kill his own sponsor without getting caught. He’s glad he never figured it out. “I would have been dead.”
Notable Quotes
I didn’t really believe I was an alcoholic. If you don’t believe you’re an alcoholic, this just seems like too good stuff, and no one’s going to do good stuff if they can help it.
Alcoholics are people whose problem is alcohol. Alcoholics are people whose answer is alcohol. If alcohol is your answer, you’re in trouble—because eventually reality will become unbearable around you.
If you’re not an alcoholic, you won’t do these embarrassing, humiliating things. But if you are, they seem rather reasonable.
That’s the best thing you’ve done since you got sober, kid.
The only thing that makes AA work is identification. It’s a bunch of pretty words without identification, but with identification it works.
Listen to your sponsor. If you don’t have confidence in your sponsor, get a different sponsor. I remember lying awake thinking how I could kill that old bastard—I’m glad I didn’t, because I would have been dead.
Step 3 – Surrender
Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
Step 5 – Admission
Steps 8 & 9 – Making Amends
Step 12 – Carrying the Message
Sponsorship
Early Sobriety
Long-Term Sobriety
Denial
Acceptance
Service Work
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 1 – Powerlessness
- Step 3 – Surrender
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Step 5 – Admission
- Steps 8 & 9 – Making Amends
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Sponsorship
- Early Sobriety
- Long-Term Sobriety
- Denial
- Acceptance
- Service Work
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
welcome to sober Sunrise a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience strength and Hope from around the world we bring you several new speakers weekly so be sure to subscribe whether you join us in the morning or at night there’s nothing better than a sober Sunrise we hope that you enjoy today’s speaker my name is Clancy emland and I’m an alcoholic I’m very glad to be here tonight safe and sane and sober because I didn’t used to be and I may not be again someday cuz that’s the a waiting trap for all everybody like us but I’m feeling good tonight my had my birthday this week and uh got a year older and AA and made me feel good I was the first Speaker of this meeting I was just thinking back in the 1970s or late 1960s and uh that time we spoke you spoke for two weeks so you could say what you had to say the first week and the second week you just sneered to questions but uh I’m glad we’re down to this and I hope we can C catch our rent tonight I belong to a group that we pay $1,000 a night which is a little more heavy than you pay more sincere I guess where our landlord is anyway one of the great problems I I had I’ve been had sober a long time I look back one of the great problems I the great problems I had in my early sobriety when I was in and out and in and out I could not believe I was an alcoholic and I see a lot that when I work with people today what are you waving for back there are you waving for some any reason just Jesus dummy oh I’m not judging anyone there you go don’t say word and anyway I could hear me that’s all I concerned about I uh I’ve had a lot of problems in dealing with people who did not believe they were alcoholics and I certainly understand that because I was in and out of AA for almost 10 years and I could I could accept the philosophy of it but I knew I wasn’t an alcoholic and when you don’t believe you’re an alcoholic this is just too good stuff and no one’s going to do do good stuff if they can help it and so I uh I didn’t really believe I was an alcoholic and I also had a I had a great disagreement with God so I didn’t want to pray and uh that doesn’t sound like much but it really affects people who have had a religious youth I had a religious youth so I always believed in God but eventually he became my enemy instead of my friend and it started when I was in jail one night they had to come and tell me my son had died while I was in jail that made me feel terrible and I cursed God and said damn you God you killed my little boy that never committed sign sin his life that I know of to punish me because I’m a sinner well screw you God you’ll get me when I’m dead maybe send me to hell but you won’t get me for the rest of the time and so I was had a little difficulty Fielding those two objections in newcomers in my case I got a sponsor I didn’t want him he was a signed to me he didn’t want it either he was a movie actor and he uh I was glad to see him because I knew that they had a lot of money and I figured I could he needed a new friend and I could help him but it turned out he didn’t need a new friend he needed a sober baby I guess so he really grounded me and spit me out I always could outsmart People in AA but I couldn’t outsmart him he not that he was smarter than I was but he just more experienced I remember I was living in the back seat of an abandoned car in the corner of Wilshire and Fairfax at that time he was at the AA Club parking lot so there’s a certain spiritual Fallout and uh he would call up the mission he would call up the club say 3:00 say tell her to be outside the street 5:30 6:30 6:00 they he got to be out the street go in the corner at 6 o’ I thought how dare that guy do that to me but I’ll be out there and he’d wheel up on his big Lincoln I’d jump in and the way we’d go he did a lot of speaking and I would go with him while he spoke and I’d sit the front row and after about five weeks of this I could give his talk better than he could you know and I uh I thought he’s not so smart and then on the way home he’d Drive he’d tell me about God all the way back to Wilshire and Fairfax from wherever we were is our starting time inconvenient more get the moon out of your eyes I’m going to tell you something sad about that man he took me on a trip with him on the SST we went to Europe England England or France to uh the Russian astronauts and the American astronauts were all had the one get together of all time and I went Buzz came to me and said I uh my wife and I are divorced and my kids are in Hawaii who could I possibly take so we went to uh France and it was amazing we eat outside little restaurants this was years after they were on the moon people come up say just they remembered him but we went up on the Eiffel Tower and about half the way up seemed to me that he was getting a little queasy and we were three or four of the way up and he said I’m going to get out of here and I was I was glad I said okay we got off and uh I thought to myself huh went to the moon can’t stand the Eiffel Tower but uh some years later at his 30th birthday party I said to him one day I said Buzz why did you get off the elevator that time in the Eiffel Tower he said I was afraid you were going to puke on me why should I be nice to him anyway this guy he would as he’ pick leave me a meeting would drive back to the mission and he would tell me about God and his experiences with God what a miracle it was in the I just couldn’t stand it anymore I thought how could I get this guy to stop his interminable sermonizing I thought well I’ll tell him a I’ll ask him some questions he’s such an egomaniac that should eat up the whole Space going back so I said to M I said Buzz his name was Buzz that’s Buzz his name was Bob I said Bob you know one thing that’s puzzled me I was in and out of AA for a long time and I know a lot about AA and uh I just don’t understand it my problem never was really alcohol my problem was always these feelings I had that made me so uncomfortable and alcohol would soothe them that’s why I drank alcohol I didn’t and I started drinking I keep drinking but I didn’t drink I start drinking because I craved alcohol I just craved a sensation of the emotions inside of me the feelings of difference and loneliness and sadness and such as that he said well kid he said that’s not unusual he said that’s not unusual I said but my emotions are my problem you think I should go to a psychiatrist again I’ve been to one and he uh he said no I don’t think so I said what do you what do you think is my problem now I’ve told you as much about me as I can what’s my problem he says you’re an alcoholic I said how could I be an alcoholic when my number one problem is not alcohol he said kid alcoholics are people who’s problem is alcohol alcoholics are people whose answer is alcohol if it’s your answer you’re in trouble and you must always drink it because eventually reality will become untable around you I thought about that the next day lurking around the club I what if that guy’s right and I run little test on myself and remember I got to The Nut House in Texas and I stayed sober till I swore to stay sober till I commit suicide and uh I once had a great problem in living in reality and I eventually always drink now what if that’s true what if that’s accurate I just have to assume it is maybe for the time being so I’ll do what he’s telling me to do these dumb things because if you’re if you’re not an alcoholic you don’t want to do these things these are embarrassing humiliating things but if you’re an alcoholic they seem to be rather reasonable so so I pretended to be an alcoholic to myself and I started doing what he told me and uh that was the beginning of my life as a result over a period of time I uh I look back and I remember I thought I might be an alcoholic and I took the Second Step I accepted a power greater than myself I remember he told me can’t you believe in a power greater than yourself I said oh he said uh can’t you believe in AA I said well I like it better than I used to but not much he says do you think I’m doing better than you are I said of course you are Bob congratulations I’m your new higher power and I could accept that because he was my higher power and I believed what he told me and in so doing I took the Second Step although I didn’t know it I took the first step of adopting the role of alcoholic and then the second step of adopting a higher power and the third step is just doing what the higher power says so I I took all three of those steps in one Fell Swoop without even doing it but since 1958 I’ve not had any other therapeutic I sponsored a psychiatrist one year but he got crazy and left town I tried to help him but uh I’ve not had any medication of any kind in my my body i’ve smoked no marijuana I have done nothing that alters my perception of reality and uh I haven’t gotten to be wonderful what saved my bacon is the world has shaped up around me little by little it is now bearable and table and enjoyable and sometimes I even enjoy waking up in the morning and getting out of bed see what’s going on but I think that was a great lesson for me he wanted me to take a he we got into the he wanted me to take a fourth step and I always fought that because I’d want my future in the hands of some craz babbler who might burn me off but uh I finally took my fourth step one night I was working at the gady delicates on Sunset Boulevard very few people here remember that I put a curse on him 10 years later they they out of business but I got fired I was a dishwasher at the Gat delicatess I got fired the first night because I became aware the bus boys were bringing in more dishes than the waitresses were taking out so I knew they were getting dishes elsewhere to hurt me cuz I was an Anglo and uh so I just piled him up and C him over said you’re not doing my any dishes I said well I’m doing as many as they we’re using this restaurant he says no you’re not what the hell’s wrong with you I said I’m an AA cuz I don’t give a what you’re in you just have to wash enough dishes and I’ve thought of that many times now if you’re kind of new you might remember that it sounds kind of Crash to say it but nobody really gives a what you belong to they want you to do do your work do your work and you’ll be in business but anyway I gu fired down went back to the A club Wilshire and Fairfax and everybody had gone home from the meeting was about 11:00 and just a manager was sit there got him John Sullivan I said Sullivan man I just got fired as a dishwasher people I got sober after me got cars and girls and doing long and I can’t even get a hold of job as a dishwasher and I’m smarter than any of I said I might as well be drunk he said you’re right that’s what you expect from that saying that what do you mean s he said well there’s about 180 members of this club and at least 170 of them think you’re a jerk and would be glad if you’d get drunk and die the other 10 have to defend you incessantly all day and all night now you might make those 10 people feel bad but you’d please 170 people if you just get drunk I said I wouldn’t do that no they won’t they won’t get me and I went back in the back room and I got some paper and I wrote my inventory I didn’t write it with according to the book with the rules and what Mrs Brown did or things like that I’m a dirty son of a I would suggest you if you’re about to write your inventory wait till you’re feeling real bad it uh it’s easier to remember things then when you feel good is well I guess I screwed up a few times but nothing serious but when you feel bad I’m a dirty bastard and here’s why you got to watch the teardrops SW on the paper then you know you’re getting there I come out the sheath of papers well suvan I wrote my damn inventory I don’t feel any better he’s well nothing I can tell you kid so got my car and went to bed and I guess he called my sponsor cuz my sponsor called me the next morning called me to the phone said I understand you wrote your inventory I said how do you know that he said we sponsors know I thought maybe it’s true he said I want you out the corner at 6:00 tonight have that inventory with you we’re going to take your fifth step I said Bob not tonight I got to evaluate these things some of these things go back to when I was just a kid I can’t remember anything about them cuz I really am not a nice person I’m a loser and a user and I usually have used people to come to the top a lot of times he said well just be out there with your sheet of paper and sheets of paper and uh I pulled up he pulled up at 76 6:00 and I got in he had a bunch of flashlights we went along the coast highway to Oxnard it got dark said take the flashlight and read and I read it oh God it’s worse than I remembered it I’m really a I’m I’m a sneak and a liar and a cheat and a thief and I’m not pleasant at all I read it all the way we I thought he’s going to make me get out of this car at Oxnard and I’m going to have to walk back to Los Angeles but I finished I said well that’s all Bob he said are you done now he Le said that’s the best thing you’ve done since you got sober kid and I said thought it was but little by little I went through the steps that way I made a men to people I never thought I’d make a men to made a men to a guy in Dallas who’s he said you have to go to Dallas make it right with this guy I said you you screwed up his truck his you wrecked his truck I well I didn’t mean to he said that’s going have to do with it you save your money till you got bus fair to go down there and make it up to them so I did I got little crappy jobs and I saved my money I found a bus Fair down to Dallas and I went and looked him up I said Doug I’ve come here I’m living in Los Angeles now but I’ve come here to tell you that I I acknowledge the fact that I ruined your pickup truck and I’m going to make it up to you if it takes a dollar a month for the rest of my life I’ll make it up to you I physically will make financially make it up to you he said okay well that’s nice I he said why are you doing that I said I’m an alcoholic synonymous he said what are you doing an alcoholic synonymous I said well I guess I’m an alcoholic that’s drinking most of the time I was here what did you think was wrong with me said I thought you were an then I think you’re an now get out of my office I’m so glad I saved all my pennies to hear that and but little by little I I was able to open up to my friends again and I started sending my children who are living in Texas I had four kids at that time and I started sending them what they should have little Christmas presents and cards and notices and Bella birthdays congratulations and things and little by little I starting to feel better and uh I had to go back to University of Wisconsin where I’d been expelled after I had spoken at commencement which was an unusual situation and they’ exp expelled me but I went back there and I the chancellor wouldn’t see me I had to go back another time and he wouldn’t see me and I went back another time my but my folks lived nearby so I could go and visit my folks and uh one day he did see me and I tried to make amends and he was very cold about it but that’s not the point of it sometime we we expect to make amends and people going to fall over us with admiration but that’s not true we are we still screwed up and I uh little by little I came to I got a my sponsor died I got a different sponsor guy named Chuck Chamberlain down in Laguna Beach and he little by little with his being convinced me that God was my friend and uh then I begin trying to help others that’s what’s all I’ve done the last almost 60 years is work with others and uh they’re an ungrateful Bunch I’ll say that for them some of are in this very often audience plotting against me but they you’ll never get me but I’m that’s why I’m so pleased and so I had to wonder what makes an alcoholic really is it that you’re drunk all the time no not at all I’ve only known a couple people who drank and you drink that hard you drink till you die it’s if you if you find that you drink and it changes your perception of reality it makes you more secure it makes you I’m something yeah yeah this disease has been called a perception of her disease of perception and it certainly is because what curses me when I stop drinking is I’m so glad to have stopped but little by little all around me they start acting up and acting badly and I don’t like him and I uh just finished directing a grand opera at the University of Texas in El Paso and three months later I was in the Texas nut house cuz I’d stopped drinking and I got so bad I committed suicide I said and I uh directing they they saw on my record that I directed a grand opera so I was qualified to direct the Christmas Pageant to the Christ Texas Nut House in Big Spring Texas really wasn’t very difficult to get but just trying to hold the three wisman off the Virgin Mary and rehearsals was what I could do but little by little the steps I could always give you arguments against the steps I could argue them anytime and so it’s kind of odd for me to get up and say that’s the only truth I’ve ever found in my life when I do those things I don’t get better but the world gets better and I can still be fallible and I will always be fible I have a great letter home that Bill Wilson wrote to some people in Chicago who wrote to said he had disillusioned them because he was he had made some mistakes he said nothing I’ve ever done or said as implied that I am above mistakes he said I’m as as weak as anyone the point is I uh I got here first that’s all and I uh that’s certainly true I I got got to meet Bill Wilson I heard him speak in the 1960 at the international FR which was held at uh Long Beach that year and I was in a couple years later I had a job I got sent to New York to get some signatures on documents i’ become believable I guess and uh I got them all done the first day and the second day I thought I think I’ll go over and see Bill Wilson so I went over the world service office and said I want to see Bill Wilson the girl said well he’s he’s booked up hour by hour for the next two weeks but if you want to come back in 3 weeks I’ll get you in quickly I said no never mind I I’ll I’ll be back in Los Angeles then so I went over the archives was kind of looking through the pictures old pictures of Bill and Dr Bob and their children and their family and letters they’d written and newcomers and uh all of a sudden Here Comes Bill Wilson he said are you the young man want to see me I said yes sir he said uh well my 11:00 didn’t show up come on in so we sat and talked for an hour and you know what he said H I don’t remember but it would have been something for you to Desert you needed to hear I’ll tell you that but uh so I I knew Bill Wilson I knew Dr Bob’s son very well Dr Bob died before I was in it got sober but Dr Bob son and I used to go and speak together at conventions and he was a nice young man good good guy he always talked about how the day his the day Bill Wilson called around and found someone and got a hold finally of this wealthy woman in West akan said yes my uh my this week my doctor told me I was he was now alcoholic and we’re all in the Oxford Group we all been praying for him but he’s drunk and so she made a deal where Bill would meet Dr Bob at her house and they went out together bill went out in the street car Dr Bob went out in his car and young Bob used to talk about that his sister was sitting there because his father was too hung over to drive sister was sitting there his mother and father in the back and all the way out there he said his father just kept saying an I know today’s Mother’s Day and I ruined again for you and I’m sorry I hope the kids forgive me and I’ll give this guy 10 minutes but I don’t want to listen to another lecture about my drinking I can’t stand any more lectures about my drinking I just and uh they got out there and they had a bite to eat and this guy the doctor and the Wall Street operator from New York got together in a room and they stayed there for 3 and 1 half hours and they came out and the doctor said to his wife my godan I can’t believe it that guy knows how I feel and why I drink nobody else in the world is I thought I was the only one in the world like that he he’s just like me would you stay with me would you stay with us for a week I know you’re busy but could you stay with us for a week and we can talk some more so they sat together every day for a week talked to spiritual matters and Bill got impervious and said Bob or Bill he said I’d like to have you stay this weekend with my family because I’m going to New York to Atlantic City National Convention of the of the medical association I was there last year and I was so drunk and they ridiculed me and ter treated me badly I to go back there and show but I’m like when I’m sober and Bill said sure I’ll be glad to he said I’ll be home Tuesday morning and Tuesday Morning the phone rang Mrs Smith answered it and the woman’s on the phone she said I’m sorry so sorry to tell you this this is Dr Bob’s office nurse They Carried him off the train today so drunk he couldn’t walk I guess the big experiment didn’t work out and Mr Smith said I’ll go down and get him we’ll come down and get him Mr Wilson I’ll come down and get him they come down got him and brought him back home he was crying I’ve I’ve worked with a number of Alcoholics and one of the most sickening scenes of all a crying alcoholic jesz they’re Dreadful I’m sorry boom now you’re sorry you son of a uh but they put him to bed he sat up Suddenly on Thursday said my God what day is it it’s Thursday Bob he said oh my god I’ve got to I’ve got to do a I’ve got to do an operation on cancer operation and I can’t do it look at my hand my hand is shaking I can’t hold a knife my God they’ll take away my license what do I do and his new friend bill out got him some beer to steady his hand and the way went I’ll be home about 2:00 and 2:00 came and he didn’t come 3:00 came and he didn’t come and 4:00 came and 5:00 Bish must be drunk again 6:00 he opened the door and there he was cold sober where you been Bob he said when I was out took that operation right in the middle of the operation I thought the Oxford Group wants me to make amends for my errors and I never thought that applied to a doctor but I realized I’m a human being first instead of being a doctor so I was all over award today making demands to people and I feel wonderful and said good that was June 10th 1935 and that’s the anniversary of Alcoholic Anonymous and I a couple months ago I spoke at their anniversary in akan Ohio it was only the 82nd anniversary seemed like all that stuff took place thousand years ago 82 years ago that’s all a has been in existence and it’s risen all over the world no thanks I’ve got a ride one of my agents outside but uh it’s expanded now it’s in 150 me family 150 countries something over 2 million sober members of AA and which is amazing when you stop think in all of experience of mankind up to 1935 no one was sober No One Like Us was sober and so what we going to do is find out how they stay here and cherish it and I hate to tell you this newcomer but listen to your sponsor if you don’t have confidence in your sponsor get a different sponsor I I remember lying awake at night thinking how could I kill that old bastard and not get caught but I’m glad I didn’t couldn’t think of it cuz I would have been dead so I’m very glad to be here D I’m glad to be safe and sane and sobern celebrate another birthday based on 12 steps and the traditions of Alcoholics that’s the end of my talk and now I believe is the question question and answer part portion any questions yes sir how has a change the most how has AA change the most well one great change is that it has a great in Fusion of non-alcoholics Narcotics addicts emotional addicts uh many times some I hate to say this but it’s true people go to alanon and think I guess I’m an alcoholic because I feel the same way they do and they suddenly become an alcoholic overnight but and they only miss one thing they miss the identification because the only thing that makes AA work it’s a bunch of pretty words without identification but with identification it’s work somebody says something as Dr Bob said to his wife my God they know how I feel they know how I feel when you can hear somebody get up in at the podium or talk to you in the backseat of a car and talk about how they feel and you say my God that’s how I feel and you have a start towards being a sober person anything else yes ma’ams what she say Steve diis dual diagnosis well I haven’t had much luck with that I was on medication off and on for many years for the intensity of my emotions but I uh I’ve never taken one since I got sober once I began working the steps I didn’t turns out I didn’t need the medication and that that medication is problem because it seems to me the it puts the cart before the horse we are not an AA to get off drinking we are an AA to learn to live in reality and if I’m taking something else smoking marijuana to take a dope I’m not in reality I’m somewhere else and it’s not working for me in my opinion I speak for Bill and Dr Bob in heaven as well else when you start with a new person as a SP how do you begin with a new well I’ve often said that I begin by teaching them how I take my call coffee Two Sugars and cream and be quick about it but that really is kind of a joke because I question pardon you oh yes what do I do with newcomers when I start working with them I uh we go to a lot of meetings together and I kind of probe him little by little of how how he feels and what his feelings of difference are and what makes him not feel that he’s a member here and little by little explain it to him as much as I can I went to a meeting every night for I know a couple years and I’m glad I did I only missed one night one night a guy a guy who was a nice guy took me to the movies and my sponsor said where were you last night well Jim took me to the movies oh really oh wow next time you have one of your suicidal depressions why don’t you call uh somebody in the movie industry and not bother me with that I’ve said that many times to others anything else I just I just open a lot of meetings and talk meetings and talk meetings and talk I think that that’s the way you break through the wall yes sir yeah can you tell me how you incorporate the 11 Step into your program on a daily basis the 11th step is difficult for me it was always difficult for me after especially after I read it thought about it says saw through prayer and meditation to improve my conscious contact with God as I understand him and uh I’m not much of a meditator Class A people I mean type A people are not meditators as much but I can I’ve learned to meditate a little bit when I go to bed at night before I go to sleep and I when I’m sitting in traffic in an endless supply of traffic as I did tonight I meditated a little bit for a few moments I’ll every try to remember God means good for me if I’m not getting good I’m doing it wrong and uh but the second half of that step is more conducive to thinking praying only for knowledge of his will for a bit and the power to carry that out every night when I go to bed that I have for many years I ask God to help me find the actions that will allow me to be become the type of man that I was meant to be I don’t know if that’s the right answer or not but is I seem to sleep better when I may be able to say that sincerely and I uh remember I have to ask God and if power comes with it allow me to use that power wisely and well not in some self aggrandisement but that’s uh the 11th step is just to me is quite simple just as long as I remember to pray for knowledge of God’s will for me and the power to carry it out I think that’s the operative part of the step anything else yes sir how did you get involved in the Midnight Mission how did I get involved in Midnight Mission well the last day I drank October 31st 1958 I was came out of an all night theater sick my friend teeth were kicked out from the Phoenix jail feeling terrible penniless and some guy said you want to sell a pint of blood I said Jesus do I ever we walked up for about five blocks to the blood bank took a drop of blood of our ear and we just sit in that room we said who’s Emin I am he said you don’t have enough iron in your blood to sell a pine of blood here sorry I did like could you give me a cup of coffee anyway I’m so sick I’m so sick I can’t help you pal he said but down here about four blocks there’s something called The Midnight Mission which designed for bums like you could I I think they’re serving breakfast so I went down there and I was breakfast please but just got done serving sorry we’re all done I come on for Christ’s sake give me a bite to eat a cup of coffee he said sorry I can’t help you and I grabbed him by the lapels I come on as a as a human being help me two guys stepped over one detached each hand and they took me to the door and threw me out in the rain I said don’t come back you phony son of a I thought I’m not a phony son of a three years ago I was at the faculty of the University of Texas ads that I wrote the LT numberz for the boarding company at one time I’m making a lot of money I’ve had my picture in the New York Times for my achievements uh but it’s really hard to explain these things in midair but I uh some years later I was working at khj where I helped create boss radio if any of you old enough to remember it and and uh got a call one day he said the director of The Midnight Mission just dropped dead of a heart attack you know anybody who wants the job I said tell me a little bit about it well you have to have some empathy for the men on the streets apparently and they don’t pay much 8 or $9,000 a year and uh it’s really it really kind of a tough job I don’t know anybody wants that job that’s ridiculous I and my wife and children get moved out here in 1973 I guess 63 and I was lying in bed one morning I said to my wife maybe I’ll go down there and just straighten them out they’re screwed up I’ll straighten them out for for a couple weeks that’ll make me feel good so I went to talk to Authority and I said yeah so I went in there I worked around it all of jobs and I straightened out their finances and straightened out their paperwork God there mess and I but I really enjoyed it because there’s a lot going on there you know people getting stabbed and shot and killed and drunk kill you I could hardly wait to go to work in the morning see what’s going on and one morning I was lying in my bed in January of 1974 I say I think I’ll take that job for maybe six months she said well if you want to trade $100,000 years for8 ,000 a year you’re welcome I said well I know it isn’t the money it’s the it’s excitement and so I down and told I’d like to be the temporary director of The Midnight Mission and uh I went again today because I’m still the director of the mid admission from 1974 I uh I’ve been there a long time 43 years we on February 1st and it’s been a lifesaver for me it’s G me a lot of time to work with others I’ve had a lot of people in my office who I would denounce them and hurt them and they cried and left stayed sober and I uh everybody that I sponsor everybody I sponsor has been in the Midnight Mission sitting in my office thinking what why doesn’t the old fool die but uh that’s my experience with him I was thrown out of the Midnight Mission physically and I went back many years later and exacted a horrible Revenge yes sir you believe that bill makes it to step 12 to sponsor someone else or do you subscribe to the idea that there’s other ways to be of service there are other ways to be of service but I think the purpose of talking to someone is for me not for them CL repeat the question repeat the question will you marry me work for that guy in the Houston Astros well anyway anyway the question was did Bill and Dr Bob believe that everyone got to the 12 step had to try to convince somebody to be a sober member or was it just there other ways of being of service and there are many other ways of being a service but I think the great value of communicating with someone else is for my sake not theirs Bill and Dr Bob realized this when after sitting discussing their spiritual values for a week Bob got drunk and after that they they read we have to find someone to tell about it that’s what we got to do and the doctor called up the hospital where he used to be invited and he called up a nun there sister ignatia and uh said do you have an alcoh do you have an alcoholic there we could talk to and at that time you couldn’t get into a hospital as an alcoholic you had to have something else pulmonary problems or something and she said yes I do I have a man here and he is he he moved here from Louisville Kentucky to get away from his drinking and apparently he couldn’t do it he’s been drunk and in our Hospital a number of times he has arteriosclerosis so he comes in for that but he is a drunk so they said could we talk to him she well I don’t know let me call his wife see if you will permitted and I heard that guy in the bed talk 50 years ago his name was Ed my name is Ed and I’m an alcoholic I was laying on that bed AC in Ohio and I knew I’d never be sober and my wife came in and said two Fells want to talk to me about my drinking I said no I’m not going to talk to anybody else about my drinking I’m sick of talking about people about drinking it’s making me crazy but my wife’s a strong woman so I talked to those Two Fellas and they didn’t talk to me once about my drinking they talk about their drinking and what Drinking Made how made them feel I thought my God I’m not the only one I’m not the only one which is the story most of us feel when we get an identification my God I’m not the only one it’s what a great great day that is what a great moment cuz then you can extrapolate there must be some more here too and little by little the uh the knowledge they had is that we have discussed spirituality for a week but we must tell somebody about it and that’s really what it boils down to it doesn’t mean that you have to become a crazy 12 step or anything but you find some poor sick son of a in the corner and sit down and talk to him tell them I know how you feel pal I used to feel that way too there’s a way out of it it doesn’t seem like any good those steps seem stupid but I thing if you take them you get you get better and that’s I think that’s what the 12th step is about having had a spiritual experience as a result of these steps we try to carry this message to others and to practice these principles in our our Affairs there’s no I don’t see any any conflict in any of that those phrases they can try to do better they try to change their life they try to tell somebody behind him who’s not quite there yet so I think that’s the answer to the best of my knowledge anybody else okay will you marry me you see my wife has passed away and I’m very lonely any one more question yes sir do you think that is represent well for what saved my life is when I became when I believe my sponsor was a higher power that’s why they asked it in there there was a guy that used to be in Philadelphia in the early very early days he wound up in San Diego finally but he kept getting drunk and coming back saying I can’t accept that God stuff I just can’t I’m too strong a religious person I can’t accept that God stuff so in his honor they wrote as you understand him in all of our literature it’s kind of hard to debate that God as you understand him okay I understand he’s a v vicious malicious old fool that’s good that’s God you got it or God is loving and kindly and warm and I think that uh that’s why they said it that way so you and I if our vision of God is Not cohesive we don’t it doesn’t have to be you have a vision I have a vision of God a power greater than myself okay thank you for listening to sober Sunrise if you enjoyed today’s episode please give give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message until next time have a great day