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Good evening. My name is Eileen and I'm an alcoholic. Want to thank Danny for asking me to come over here and share uh today.

Um I've just recently moved around the corner which means I can never come here because it's too close. Um anyway, I uh I'm very happy to be here. I'm very grateful to be here.

Um in a little less than 2 months, I'm going to celebrate 40 years of sobriety. And uh what's astonishing to me about that is that when I got sober, AA was only 40 years old. AA is going to be 80 years old this year.

And I didn't know anyone who had 40 years. Not even close. I mean all the people that I thought of as newcomers I mean as old-timers were people who had like maximum 20 25 years and they were really old people you know and um so but now you know AA is filled with people of you know relatively young age who have been here for a really long time who've been able to spend you know the vast majority of their lives in Alcoholics Anonymous.

I I I first came to AA in the summer of 1974 when I was 23 years old and I I did not get sober in 1974. I came around for about 5 months and I didn't get sober and thank God the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. I think I had the desire.

I just wasn't quite there yet, you know, because I came in at a time when there were not a lot of young people in AA and there were not a lot of attractive young people at AA like we see now. And I was one of the more unattractive of the unattractive young people. Uh much of it had to do with how I looked.

Uh I weighed about 230bs. I had um a 599 granny dress from Zodies and a pair of flipflops and a rather ruddy complexion that comes from drinking too much wine and um a bad haircut that I believe I had performed on myself. Spotty hygiene and a really bad attitude.

And I think that's perfection for a newcomer personally. Um because I really had no life and I didn't know for sure when I came here initially if I was an alcoholic. Um I only drank and used for 12 years.

Um and but for me I've come to find out that it was really enough. You know, I came in at a time when, you know, to have a good resume in Alcoholics Anonymous, you had to go to a lot of penitentiaries and nutouses and uh, you know, they like to play the game, can you bottom this? You know, that's a game they like to play in AA.

Um, it's the one, you know, where, you know, if you've gone to 47 nutouses and 22 jails, you have a lot of prestige. And you try that material at the high school reunion and they back off. But, uh, but here it entitles you to something.

I'm not sure what. But anyway, I um I came here and I didn't think much had happened to me because I was so out of touch with uh what had happened to me. You know, I uh I started drinking when I was about 12 years old.

I learned very quickly that if you were a reasonably attractive young girl and willing to do just about anything for even the promise of a drink, as my friend Kena Beay used to describe it, uh if you learned how to do certain favors with much older guys, uh you could get what you needed no matter how old you were. And I learned very quickly that I was willing to trade myself for alcohol and drugs. And I grew up during the 60s and the 60s were a fantastic era for people like me because the 60s were the first generation before us since that said get as blasted as you want to.

It's the preferable way to live, you know, and I had no reason to not get loaded. I barely graduated from high school. I have a genius IQ.

I got into college by 1/100th of a percentage point based on my SAT scores, which I somehow manage to date. I got into college and I majored in getting loaded, rioting, and hanging out. The only problem was when I got into college, I was pregnant.

And I was pregnant not by my high school boyfriend, but by some drug dealer that I slept with one time and never saw again. And by the time that I went to the doctor to find out if I was pregnant, I was 4 and a half months pregnant. And at that point, there was nothing that I could have had done about it anywhere in the world.

And so in March of 1969, I had a child, a son. I gave him up for adoption. And 10 days later, I was back to partying exactly the same way I was before I got pregnant.

And I went back to school. And I managed somehow in four years to accumulate 31 units in um some subjects which were like Buddhism, Marxism. I took a class in Chaucer.

I liked Chauer a lot. We sat in the back of the room and drank old English 800 while we studied Middle English. And um anyway, I got into a lot of trouble around 1970.

Uh we had a student strike at uh Valley State, which is now Cal State Northridge. It was actually the most radical campus in Southern California. I got in a little trouble and they told me if I did it again, I'd get kicked out.

So I came back the following year and did it again. And I got kicked out and I lived a very marginal existence. You know, I sort of pretended to go to school.

I had some half-ass jobs. Nothing really got in the way of my vocation, which was getting loaded. And I'm no stranger to what the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous refers to as pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization.

I've had some brushes with some extremely uh shifty and seedy and dangerous characters. I used to hang out at a place up in uh Box Canyon, which is one of the two canyons. It runs between uh Seami and San Fernando valleys.

It runs parallel to the Santa Susanna Pass, which is where Spawn Ranch was, which is where the Manson family lived. And I never met Charlie, but I met a bunch of his followers. And years later, I went on a panel to the California Institute for Women, which is where all the remaining Manson girls are housed.

Uh Susan Atkins is dead, but the night that I went there, she was the secretary of the inside meeting. And uh they're never getting out. They are never getting out.

And they were young girls. They were alcoholics and drug addicts. And there used to be a guy named Norm Alpie around who talked really, really fast.

And he used to talk about seconds and inches. And sometimes it's just seconds and inches. Cuz I remember my friend Chris taking a hike up the hill and coming back down and saying, "There's a guy up there and he's got all these women around him and they do whatever he tells them to do, you you know, and he also used to recruit down on Venice Beach.

And I used to go to Venice Beach because quite frankly, the companions in the valley just weren't low enough for me. And I had to go to Venice to find my people. My people who were, you know, drinking wine and smoking dope and hanging out in the pagotas and singing the House of the Rising Sun.

And I'm here to tell you, they're still doing that now. And they have an additional thing going on down in Venice now. It's called the drum circle.

It's a bunch of people sitting in a circle playing drums. And um and I don't really notice the drummers. I notice things.

I I sort of notice things in visuals. And there's always couple of women, two or three women who look like they've been transported by the from the 60s, but not in very good shape. And they're always dancing, you know, at the edge of the drum circle, you know, like we used to dance at the Beans, you know, in Griffith Park.

And they're always dancing. And uh they've had um too much sun. They've had way too much to drink.

And their hair is a funny color. And they're a little too hefty to be wearing that halter top and that Indian bedspread skirt and they're dancing. And to most people, I guess they would look like they're having fun.

But I look at those women and I just think they don't know where they're going to sleep tonight. But I'm willing to bet they're going to do anything they have to to get a place to sleep. and they don't really know where their next drink is coming from necessarily, but I'm willing to bet they're going to do whatever they have to to get their next drink because those women are just like I was when I was 14, 15, 16 years old.

You know, I went to live on a commune in Washington with a guy I knew hated me in Los Angeles. And I knew it would be different in Washington. I don't know what the I was doing going to a commune.

Um, I'm Jewish. We don't camp, you know. And um honest to God, if a hotel doesn't have room service, it's camping to me.

And um you know, but I thought that's what I was supposed to do. I lasted two weeks. And uh then I ended up living with some drug dealers in Eugene, Oregon that I didn't know were drug dealers cuz I was stupid.

And um and then I got some nice guy. I talked some nice guy into buying me a plane ticket to come back to LA. And uh anyway, I found out about Alcoholics Anonymous.

I guess maybe I'd heard of it. I'm not really sure. I don't think I knew anybody in AA because AA was a much more anonymous organization back in 1974.

And I uh was watching television one night. Well, actually, I was passed out in front of the television one night. And I sort of came to at 3:00 in the morning.

And I don't know if central office still does this, but they did it back then. And they put a single card up on the local TV stations in Los Angeles. And it was just a single card.

It wasn't a commercial. It would just come up like in the middle of the night when people would come to in front of their TVs. And it said, "Do you have a drinking problem?" And it gave the number of central office.

And for some unknown reason, I called the number. See, I knew I drank too much, but so what? Everybody I knew drank too much.

And what the hell was I going to do about it anyway? If in fact I even wanted to do anything about it. But I called the number and a man answered the phone and he said, "Alcoholics Anonymous, may we help you?" And I said, "I think I drink too much." And he said, "Would you like me to have somebody call you?" And I said, "Okay." And he woke some total stranger, some woman up in the middle of the night and she called me and she said, "Can I help you?" And I said, "I think I drink too much." And she said, "Would you like me to take you to a meeting?" And I said, "Oh, no, thank you.

I'll get there myself." I came to Alcoholics Anonymous like this. Help me stay as far away from me as possible, but please help me. I was not a cuddly newcomer.

I was not a vision for you. I was not the one that everybody raced across the room to talk to. There was just something about me that said, "Please just go away." It may have to do with the fact that I used to lean against walls with my arms folded and glared at people and um cuz I was terrified.

I was terrified and uh came around for about 5 months in 1974 and I did not get sober. I had periods where I didn't drink, maybe for a day, maybe for two days, but I wouldn't call what I did slipping. I just simply didn't get sober.

I wasn't ready. And there were very nice people. Couple of them in Hollywood.

AA. I got sober in Hollywood in a bunch of basements. And uh um there were a couple of guys there, Lee Larson and uh and Irving Nimi.

And uh they were mean actually, but they were really nice to me and because they saw right through me, but it wasn't enough. And when the holidays rolled around, I just celebrated my 40th sober holiday season. But that year was the last year that I got loaded.

And when the holidays rolled around, I thought to myself, I can't think of anything more depressing than being in AA at the holidays, not sober. And uh so I left. And I had some vague plan to come back after the first of the year, but my birthday is March 3rd, so it took a little longer than I thought it would because my plans rarely ever worked out.

You know, I'd tell my mother I'd come to dinner. She was still talking to me. And then I'd run into somebody and they would say, "Would you like to go to Mexico?" And I'd get in the car.

And uh anyway, um I had a therapist. I'm not here to knock therapy. I found therapy to be extremely helpful since I learned how to tell the truth.

And uh you know, talking to a sponsor is very helpful if you tell them the truth also, by the way. And uh but I had this I had a series of therapists before I got sober who were just really um sketchy. And uh this guy was the weirdest of all.

His name was Sid and he was blind and we used to smoke dope and neck during my sessions. So you know that I was getting an enormous amount of help from Sid. And uh Sid persuaded me to go to this place called the Benville Pines for New Year's weekend.

It's a church camp in the San Bernardino Mountains, but it's not what you think. It's run by the Unitarians and they're loose. And uh anyway, uh I only agreed to go after Sid assured me there'd be liquor there because I wasn't there in therapy, by the way, to discuss my drinking.

I was in therapy to unravel, as my sponsor, Julie C. the great white goddess, she who must be obeyed calls, I was there to unravel the fascinating mystery of me. And believe me, it was fascinating.

But anyway, we go up to this place and sure enough, they were unloading gallon jugs of some unknown vintage out of the back of a station wagon. Unknown vintage is my drug of choice. And um you know just the cheapest wine, the kind that my friend Don Norman describes as coming in and hovering over a grape and never quite coming in for a landing.

That kind of stuff, you know, alcoholic wine. Thunderbird, Mad Dog 2020, Ripple. You haven't lived till you've puked Ripple Pig and Pink through your nose.

Anyway, um I spent the entire weekend completely inebriated having the freeway with a couple of sex therapists from Carpentia, California, whose names were Bert and Sally. I don't know why I remembered their names. I guess I thought I would look them up.

Um which I never did. Not because I think there's anything wrong with a three-way, but because they're creepy. Anyway, I um I came back from that adventure or that misadventure and uh didn't get sober for another couple of months.

And then on March 3rd of 1975, for no apparent reason, I came back to Alcoholics Anonymous. There actually was a reason, but I didn't know it. I was tired.

And also, I had gotten a perception of AA, which I hold to this day. I thought AA is good. It's decent.

It's wholesome. It's unhip. People seemed to be nice to one another here, which I didn't understand.

And it was the first place that I had been in years where I felt like nobody nobody would laugh at me if I said I wanted something other than what I had. And so I came back and on March 4th of 1975, I went to the old Radford clubhouse when it was still on Radford in North Hollywood. Believe me, I'm not sentimental about the meetings that have died or moved.

you know, AA has just grown and thrived and but I used to go to meetings, you know, most of which are no longer here. And uh anyway, I went to this meeting in Bradford and the man who became my first sponsor, a man named Bob Earl, back me up against the wall in that meeting. He had met me the year before and he said to me, "Look, punk." He said, "You have a serious problem with alcohol and drugs, and you better damn well get sober.

You're going to die." And then he said, "If you don't get sober, I'm going to break your jaw." Now, I don't know what you would have thought. I thought he cares. You know, I I heard you cared.

And then I spent the next month calling him up, screaming at him, "Why do you care about me? Why do you care about me?" I remember he screamed back at me, "Because you're psycho." Um, when I got to AA, um, I just thought I was the biggest piece of crap that had ever crawled out from under a rock. I remember one night Bobby was going to the liquor store to get cigarettes and I still smoked in those days and I said, "Could you get me some cigarettes?" And I held out some money and he didn't take my money.

And then he came back with two packs of cigarettes and he didn't expect me to give him anything. And where I'm was coming from, if you wanted, if you you know, if you were nice to somebody, it's cuz you wanted something. And if somebody was nice to you, it's cuz they wanted something.

And the people of Alcoholics Anonymous didn't seem to want anything from me. And I just didn't understand that for quite some time. This was completely different than anything I had ever encountered.

I mean, and I grew up in a nice home, really nice home with two intact parents. Their names were Harry and Harriet. They were a set.

They were meant to stay together. And uh you know, and they made it to almost 63 years. And about 7 and 1/2 years ago, my mother died very suddenly.

She was fine one day and dead the next. And many of you in here know my father, the prince of men. And he's 93 years old.

And I am completely devoted to my father. And um because he had never lived alone. He had gone from his family to the Marine Corps to marriage with my mother and he lived alone here on Montana for about seven years.

And then about 6 months ago, he finally moved to Ocean House down on Ocean Avenue, which is comforting to me, but he doesn't like it cuz there's too many old people. And um you know, cuz he's got all his marbles and walks without uh orthopedic appliances. I mean, I'm in much worse shape than my father.

You know, I uh I've had uh unfortunately uh the warranty has run out on a lot of my parts since 1992. I've had six major orthopedic surgeries since 1992. I just had a hip replacement on October 9th.

It's my second one. I'm completely bionic now. And sometimes I get down about that.

I guess I'm going to spend a few minutes talking. I did get sober. Obviously, still sober almost 40 years.

Lot has happened. But I want to talk about how I feel about Alcoholics Anonymous and my place in it for a few minutes. Um, I don't think that when we get sober, we're exempt from life.

You know, life happens. Life happens to all of us. And sometimes I don't like it.

You know, there's a big difference between not liking things that go on in my life and not being grateful for Alcoholics Anonymous. There has never been a time that I can honestly tell you in almost 40 years that I have not been grateful for Alcoholics Anonymous. And truly, the longer I'm sober, the more grateful I am because the longer I'm sober, the more I need this program.

I have never felt that the point of AA is to get yours and split. The point of AA is to get yours and then give it back to somebody else. I like the fact that people say to me, I love still seeing you in the rooms.

And I want to say to them, I love still seeing me in the rooms, too, because I don't know what would happen to me if I didn't come to meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. I still work full-time. I spend a lot of time with my dad, but I still manage to get to two, three, four meetings a week.

And I love meetings. I love meetings. I go to meetings for four different reasons.

I go to meetings because I need them. I'm one of the lucky people who has never ever been able to labor under the illusion that I do not need this program. I was at Bed Bath and Beyond the other night.

Well, that'll drive you to drink just going to Bed Bath and Beyond Beyond the limits of my tolerance. And anyway, I was on the escalator, which I shouldn't have been on. I should really take the elevator.

And there were some kids, you know, roughousing up near the top. And I got frightened cuz, you know, I just had a hip replacement and I was afraid I wasn't going to be able to make it off at the end. So I yelled at them.

I said, "Get out of the way. I'm disabled." And a man who I guess was her grandfather said, "You may be disabled, lady, but you ugly." And uh so I just turned up around to him and I said, "Why don't you just go yourself? And then the woman was with him said, "He's my dad." I said, "I could give a shit." I said, "I'm probably as old as he is.

I'm not insulting the old person." And I didn't feel good about it, but you know, happens. And uh you know, we are not saints people. You know, I love what comes after the reading of the 12th step.

You know, people always say, "Why do we have to keep reading the same stuff over and over and over again?" Well, because sometimes you just may hear it. And after the reading of the 12th step, it says, "Many of us explain what order I can't go through it. That do not be discouraged." And then the best line in the big book, no one among us has been able to maintain anything by perfect adherence to these principles.

Do you know what that means? Nobody's even come close. And then it goes on to say, you know, we are not saints.

The point is that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. I wish that the fanatical big book thumpers would read their big books as thoroughly as the fanatical Bible thumpers. I really do because, you know, there's lots of stuff in there that's about our humanity and our love and tolerance and not beating each other up over a word or a phrase.

Just my opinion, and I mean that just by opinion, but that's how I feel about it. You know, I'm here to be of love and service. That's what I'm here for, to be of love and service.

Because being of love and service has saved my life. I lived my life in selfobsessed insular fashion before I came to AA. I always wondered how I was impacting the planet, what you thought about me, you know, all of this stuff.

And Alcoholics Anonymous has freed me of this. has freed me of this. I'm an eccentric.

I'm an oddnick. I cherish it and I celebrate it because Alcoholics Anonymous gives me the freedom to be exactly who I am. To be exactly who I am.

And who I am is a really good friend, a really good daughter, a fantastic employee. I've had the same job for over 27 years. I'm a personal assistant in the entertainment industry.

I work for one of the nicest men in town. And I have that job until I'm 105 if I want it. Do you know because I show up every day and because Alcoholics Anonymous and growing up during the 60s has taught me equinimity.

And I don't see any difference between buying dog food or going to the Academy Awards. And I've done both in this job, you know, because I'm just there to be of service, to do whatever needs to be done to make my boss's life easier, to make his wife's life easier, to make the entire situation easier for everybody. And most of the time I succeed.

Most of the time I succeed because of this program. In Alcoholics Anonymous, I've learned how to do the inconvenient thing. Do you know what a gift that is?

You know, I love my father to pieces. It's not always convenient to do everything that one needs to do for an aging father, but you know what? I'll drop anything if he needs me.

And it's not convenient every time cuz I don't get to do whatever I want. I don't get to do whatever I want. And in Alcoholics Anonymous, I learned the spirit of cooperation.

Do you know what an amazing thing that is? You know, I always wondered what it was that got me to go from the person I was when I walked through the door to somebody who actually, you know, became a viable, useful person here. And I think it's cooperation with the people in the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I decided to try and fit myself to what, you know, God or a higher power, whatever it is, would have me be and to make me be right size and just to be here as a person among persons, you know, and a man among men. And uh, you know, I um I love Alcoholics Anonymous. During the questions, I hope to tell you more about everything that's happened in my life in the last 40 years, good, bad, and different, black, white, who cares.

Anyway, um thank you very much for having me. Um I guess there's questions now and they should be I guess in the form of a question as Denny said. Uh does anyone have a question?

Please repeat the question. Oh. Oh yes.

I will repeat the questions. Nancy. So tell us about the child that you have.

Oh sure, Nancy. I'd be happy to. Um, the question is, tell us about that child I put up for adoption.

Well, um, if you think that there will come a time when everything in your life will be wrapped up in a nice little neat package, and nothing will ever seep out your ears and down your neck anymore. And God will say, "Leave her alone. She's had enough.

forget it. God or the higher power or whatever it is, cuz I'm still not sure. Um, has a way of throwing what I like to call the celestial monkey wrench into the mix just to make sure we're paying attention.

And on July 4th of 1996, I got a whopper. I'll try to tell the short version of the story, but I was sitting on my couch and my phone rang and it was a woman. It was a it was the Fourth of July weekend and I was looking forward to four days off of work.

Nothing was troubling me. I was drinking a nice big cup of coffee staring out the window and my phone rang and it was a woman and she said, "My name is Julie Jones and I'm a private search investigator from Seattle, Washington and I've been asked to locate you." And I had no idea why she was calling. And she said, "Is your name Eileen Waterstone?" And I said, "Yes." And she said, "Does the date March 28th, 1969 mean anything to you?" And then I knew and I started to cry and I said, "Is he in Seattle?" And she said, "Oh, no." She said, "Uh, we do this all by computer.

He lives in your area, code. Uh, my son was living about a mile and a half away from me 27 years later." Um, she said, "Can I give him your phone number?" I said, "No." I said, "Um, I said, give me his. Call him back.

Tell him I'll call him in about a half an hour. I got a couple of things I need to take care of." And, uh, called a few people. I called people that I knew that had adopted kids.

I um called people that I knew who were adopted. I called my parents who were not home, thank God. I called my sponsor who was home, thank God.

And then I took a deep breath and I picked up the phone and I called him and I said, "My name is Eileene Waterstone and I understand you're looking for me." And in our very first conversation without knowing a thing about me, he told me that he had been in a rehab two years earlier. Now considering the details of his conception, I was not stunned. I could also tell by the tone of the conversation that he was not currently rehabbing, shall we say?

So I thought, "Oh, what the hell?" So I said, "Hey." I said, "What an amazing coincidence." I said, "I have 21 years in Alcoholics Anonymous." And he was like, "Oh shit." Anyway, I made a date with him. I went to pick him up 3 days later except for the fact that he's 6'4, half Mexican, and a guy. We look exactly alike.

And uh a lot of you know him. His name is AJ. Anyway, um I pick him up.

We go downtown for sushi. We share a genetic liking of sushi. And he orders some saki or some beer.

I pay for it, you know. Figure get him in a little sooner. And during the course of the conversation, the subject of AA comes up and he says, ' Aa is a really great program.

I go to a meeting anytime because when he was in the rehab, they had taken him. And I said, listen, I said, there's something you really need to know about me. I said, I'm not just some casual drop into a meeting any time kind of a gal.

I said, I'm like a rabid fanatical member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I said, as a matter of fact, I said, you can refer to me as the empress of AA if you like. Anyway, my son after I met him went in and out of the program for 10 years.

10 years. Every guy I knew tried to help him. He had a drug induced heart attack when he was 35.

He got into a domestic thing with his girlfriend. My grandson went to foster care. He went to jail.

The last two years that he was drinking and using, I couldn't talk to him anymore. He was so insane. He'd be up four and five times at, you know, four and five days at a time.

I couldn't talk to him. And then I heard that he found a guy that he would listen to, like I listen to Bob. And he got sober and he has a little over eight years now.

And um you know, both of my grandchildren, he has custody of both of his kids now. He has a wonderful girlfriend who's also sober in the program. And uh it's not like other relationships.

It's it's odd. It's odd, but we have a good relationship and I know that he respects me and I respect him, you know. And the other thing, you know, there were so many coincidences.

I didn't find out until later. I used to sponsor a girl named Jackie Ow. And when he was 16, he was friends with her daughter and he was in her house when I was sponsoring.

But the best thing was when I first met him, his job was um being the doorman at Jumbo's Clown Room, the notorious strip bar in Hollywood, which is owned by the grandfather of my niece's husband. So, needless to say, it was all good. Anyway, uh that's what happened.

And um it's been an amazing journey. He's uh 45 and I'm almost 64 now. He's been in my life for 18 years.

Anyone else? Yes. Um, can you explain some of your spiritual experience over the past 40 years?

Sure. Could I explain some of my spiritual experience of the past 40 years? I'm not a deist.

Um, if anything, I'm probably kind of a Buddhist Jew. Um, you know, the getting down on the knees thing never worked for me. I just could never assimilate that.

Um, I believe that there is definitely some sort of power in the universe. I am not uh the most persistent prayer or meditator. Um what I believe is this.

I believe in experience. You know, we talk about sharing experience, strength and hope. And when I have an experience, you know, and I've had a lot of experiences, uh some of which have felt like the worst thing that has ever happened to me in my whole entire life.

And when I have an experience, I try to remove my judgment from the experience as being good or bad or positive or negative or black or white. It's merely experience. And what I've discovered over the past 40 years is that every time I've needed some sort of change in my life, God or the higher power has moved a person or a situation into my life to propel me to the next place where I'm supposed to be.

And you never ever know when you're in the middle of an experience or I never ever know when I'm in the middle of experience. I'm just going to cite one example. I told you my mother died very suddenly 7 and 1/2 years ago.

She was literally fine one day and dead the next. And in January of that year, she died in May. In January, I had this very serious foot surgery.

I had all the joints in my right heel fused. And I basically had to lay in bed for 6 weeks with my leg on a pile of pillows for 18 hours a day. And I couldn't put any weight on my foot.

I couldn't walk. And I'm too clumsy to use crutches. So I stayed at my parents house for 6 weeks.

I was 50 almost 56 years old when I had this surgery. And I stayed at my parents' home for 6 weeks. And I got six weeks with my mother that I never would have gotten under any other circumstances.

And four months later when she died, I began to bless my wonky flat flipper of a foot because it gave me the gift of the time with her. Right before I turned 60, I got a tattoo on top of my foot, which I do not recommend. And and what it is, it's a memorial to my mother because when I get discouraged about my foot, I look down and it's a Hamza, which is a hand of protection with a Jewish star in the middle with a heart.

And around the top of the foot, it has her name in the year she was born in the year she died. And it just makes me feel better about my wonky weird foot. and I got that time.

So that's the kind of faith that I have in the universe that all will be provided that you know the spiritual experience in the back of the book really all they're talking about in those two pages is a change of attitude. I told you what I was like when I was new. I'm a fairly positive individual.

I'm not perky, but I am a fairly positive individual. I am more than willing to see the good in just about every situation. And when I got here, I always waited for the other shoe to drop.

And I just don't feel that way anymore. I don't walk in fear. I don't hate myself.

So really, basically, I've just had a change of attitude like they talk about in the back of the book. And I'm willing to view life in a completely different way. Does that help?

Yes. How do you use the program in the steps for your surgeries? How have I used the How have I used the program in the steps for my surgeries?

I've definitely used painkillers. I'm not a masochist or an idiot. Um I have used them as prescribed.

I have discovered much to my amazement that if you use painkillers for the purpose for which they're intended, you don't actually get high. Unbelievable. You know, I used to use prophylactic perkadan in case I might have a feeling at some future date.

You know what I'm saying? I enjoyed a pill or two. Okay, I'm going to admit it openly and freely up here.

I enjoyed a pill or two for non-medical purposes. Anyway, I um yes, I've used pain medication. I've tried to get off of it as quickly as I possibly can.

The the real miracle is I don't even like it anymore. It makes me feel icky and I don't like feeling like that anymore. Um, the other thing that I've done is I've tried not to make everybody in my life miserable around me because I've had to have surgery.

Okay? I don't take it out on the world. I've actually had a fairly good attitude and it's been a pro it's been a real um uh process.

My first surgery, I didn't even want to ask for any help. I just didn't want to ask for any help. I didn't want to bother anybody.

I had a surgery. I had my leg in a cast. I put together the six- foot tall uh bookcase from IKEA by myself because I wasn't going to ask anybody for any help.

Um this last surgery I asked for help. It was a very stressful time. I was living in Park Labraa in a tower with very faulty elevators which really caused me an enormous amount of stress.

There were two days when there were no elevators at all and I was living on the eighth floor and I had to climb those elev those stairs with a hip that was completely shot and I a sponsy of mine said I'm getting you out of there and this girl is a real go-getter and she found me this perfect little cottage over here on Sunset and Greta Green with no stairs you know and a front door and a back door and it's absolutely perfect for me except for the critic the cricket infestation which is being taken care of as we speak. But anyway, I asked for help this time. Anybody who wanted to help me, anybody who wanted to take me to the hospital, pick me up from the hospital, bring me food, come visit me, anyone who wanted to be with me, I just let them do it because I have finally discovered after almost 40 years what a spiritual gift it is to allow other people to help you.

If it helps me to help other people, I have to believe that it helps other people to help me. You see? So I think it's a spiritual gift.

Um, so yes, I mean, you know, each one's gotten a little better, not necessarily in severity. I mean, you know, they have improved the surgery since 13 years ago, but the point of the matter is is that each one I've gotten a little better with, and I'm really not afraid. That's the incredible thing.

I'm not afraid, you know. I'm very practical individual, you know. I mean, if my hip is shot, I just want them to give me a new hip.

You know, I had a friend named Riley Lundday who died on this program when he was 96 years old. He'd had three hip replacements. One of them failed.

He didn't have three hips, but one of them failed. And and Riley's motto was as long as they keep making spare parts, I'll keep on going. And that's kind of my motto.

You know, I don't like it. I wish that there were lots of things I could do. You know, you're all going to spin class and I'm going to infant yoga.

You know what I mean? But so what? So what?

We work with what we have and what I have is an awful lot. I'm a very lucky person. A very lucky person.

Yes. How did this uh incident with the guy on the es play out? Says instep anytime we're upset there's something wrong with us and all.

Well, sure. I went home and prayed and I felt bad about it. But what was I going to do?

He stormed off, I stormed off. By the time I cooled down, he was gone and so was I, you know. I mean, look, and I also just forgave myself, you know.

I was scared. I know what happened. You know, I reacted out of fear.

He was a jerk. I was a jerk back. You know, end of story.

I mean, you know, by the end of the evening, I was okay with it. What am I going to do? I'm a human being.

You know, I couldn't promptly admit I was wrong because I was too mad. And by the time I was ready to admit I was wrong, he was gone. So, what am I going to do?

Okay, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to tell you I was wrong.

Okay? I'm sorry. I hope that I never tell you to go yourself again.

Um, yes, John. With all the stuff that's gone on over the last four years, almost 40 years. Yes.

and your surgeries. Was there ever any depression that sent it? Sure.

And if so, how did you handle it? Has there ever been any depression? Yeah, there's been depression.

I am prone to depression. Um, not so much anymore. I mean, it's usually sort of a day thing.

When I was about 6 years sober, I got something that I wanted really, really badly. The thing that I thought would always fix me. Okay, I I'm not going to go into the particulars of it, but let's just say if there's something in your life that you think is going to fix you for good, you know, that woman, that motorcycle, that man, that whatever, okay, and I lost it.

I lost it. And I plungled into a really deep depression. And a friend of mine, Frankie, who's now dead, told me to go see this therapist, a guy named John Arnold, who was not in the program, who absolutely saved my life.

And uh what I had to deal with was my complete and total self-hatred. I used to lay on the floor in his office and beat on myself with my fists and scream, "I hate you. I hate you.

I hate you." And he told me that if I was willing to go down into the depths of my depression that he would take my hand and hold it and help me come out the other side. And he did. I was there for about four years.

And I've had periods of depression since. But I've had situational depression. I think it's appropriate, you know, to be depressed when you have horrible foot surgery, your mother dies, and your relationship that you've been trying to make work for 23 years unsuccessfully finally goes completely to Um, you know, it's appropriate to be depressed and I have at different times, you know, u gone to therapy, written inventory, prayed, done whatever I had to do.

I am willing to uh, you know, do anything. I I am not here to talk about medication. I myself don't take it, but I'm not here to talk about it for anybody else.

It's not my business. Not my business, but I haven't had to take it. But I've had to do a lot of work in order to deal with my depression, which at times has been deep and lasting.

But I have moments. I was really down on Sunday. I just felt so down.

Life seemed so hard on Sunday. I had a lot of pain. It was tough.

You know, I was just pushing myself to do whatever it is that I needed to do. do I have a commitment at the little Sunday morning palis aids meeting I'm the cake chick you know and I went and I felt better and I had lunch with some people and then I went and talked to my dad cuz he's still my dad even though he's 93 he's valid and valuable and viable as my father and I talked to him and I went home and I went to bed and when I got up in the morning it was okay so I have dealt with it as recently as Sunday but I also understand now that it's not going to kill me and it's not going to last and it's just part of who I am and I don't, you know, I don't feel bad because I haven't got it all perfectly knocked around here. I don't think that's the point of Alcoholics Anonymous.

The point of Alcoholics Anonymous is to not drink or use no matter what's going on in your life. And so far I've managed to do that for almost 40 years with a tremendous amount of help both in and out of AA. Yes.

Hi, thank you so much. Um, do you work with a lot of spons often with your sponsor? What is your experience?

Well, my experience is that when I was do I work the steps with my sponsor and my sponsor? The truth is I have not sponsored a brand new person for a long time. Uh the sponsies that I have have a lot of time in the program.

Um you know I encourage them you know to work the steps but what happens when you get so when you're sober a long time is that the steps become part and parcel of who you are. I mean he asked me about the 10th step. Believe me if it's somebody that I know where to find them.

The phone call does come. You know I know because I can't live with myself. You know, I really want to live the most comfortable life that I possibly can.

And so, you know, it doesn't always have to be a written 10step, but I will certainly practice the 10step. You know, I said I work in show business, a business that people are not always nice in. Now, I know you're going to find this hard to believe, but occasionally I say something to somebody that just isn't quite right.

You know what I'm saying? But unlike most of the people in my business, I will actually call the person back and say, "Listen, you know, I had no right to talk to you that way. I'm really sorry I talked to you that way, and I'll do my best to make sure that doesn't happen again." And I picture them on the other end of the line going, "Who is this alien?" You know, because it doesn't happen that much in this in that business.

It just really doesn't. It's just full of narcissists and egoists, you know, and uh but you know, I always try to keep my side of the street clean. And so, you know, I did definitely work the steps actually with a variety of sponsors.

When I wrote my first inventory, I had a sponsor. By the time I was finished, I wasn't talking to her anymore. So, I read it to somebody else.

I have worked all the steps. I continue to work all the steps in my life, but they're really part and parcel of who I am. You know, I pray, I meditate sometimes.

I certainly practice the 12step a lot. You know, I uh I do work with people. I talk to a lot of people.

I try to be of service as often as I can both in and out of the rooms because it really saves me. It really really saves me. Um I think one more question.

Okay. Yes, my darling. Can you tell me how your routine has evolved or changed over the years and now my routine?

How my routine has changed? I don't really have a routine so to speak. When I was new, I went to seven to nine meetings a week, no exceptions.

I sat in the front row. I was responsible for my chair and my ashtray. I thanked speakers whether they had anything to say or not.

I had a big book and I read it. I had a commitment. Um, and I worked the steps.

My routine now is that I have two very regular meetings that I go to. Tuesday night life after 10 in Santa Monica, Sunday morning Pacific Palisades. uh small meeting where I am now.

Obviously, as I said, the cake chick. Um it's the first commitment I've had in a while. You know, my routine got completely disrupted when my mother died.

And so, if my dad needs me, obviously, the routine goes out the window. You know, it says that our job and our uh family are uh they come before our 12step work. You know, our 12step work is an avocation.

And I still manage, you know, there are times in my sobriety when I have been unable to be very much of service, like when I was laying with my leg on a pile of pillows 18 hours a day for 6 weeks. I mean, it's really kind of hard, but you know, I was still taking phone calls and still talking to people, but I don't have a set routine, per se. What I do know is this.

I am a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I am as devoted to AA as one can possibly be. I continue to go to meetings every single week except if I'm out of the country and can't find one like when I went to Africa in January.

But honestly, I didn't think I would drink. I really didn't. I was on safari.

I had the time of my life. Do you know, and I just want to say that too, I live my life in and out of these meetings and most of the time I have the time of my life. And uh if you're new, I welcome you to please keep coming back.

And if you're old, please stay here cuz I need you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.

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