Sober Sunrise – Jeffrey B. – Prince George, BC, Canada – 2022
AA speaker Jeffrey B. from Prince George shares how working Steps 6 and 7 deeply with a sponsor transformed his sobriety from mechanical to spiritual, moving past anger and resentment.
Jeffrey B. from Prince George, BC got sober in 2003 after hitting bottom homeless on Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside, attempting suicide at the Lion’s Gate Bridge, and spending time in treatment. In this AA speaker talk, he describes his first five years as “mechanical AA”—dry but angry, sponsoring mechanically with just the Big Book. After relapsing at 14 years sober and working Steps 6 and 7 deeply with his sponsor Marty J., Jeffrey experienced a complete spiritual awakening that turned his sobriety from intellectual knowledge into lived transformation.
Jeffrey B., an AA speaker from British Columbia, shares how he worked Steps 6 and 7 in depth with his sponsor, discovering that these steps are not quick prayers but meditative practices requiring emotional honesty about hurt, fear, and threat beneath anger. He describes moving from “mechanical AA”—memorizing the Big Book but remaining emotionally broken—to genuine spiritual practice through willingness and conscious contact with God. Jeffrey details his journey from homelessness and suicide attempt to long-term sobriety, relapse at 14 years, and his eventual awakening to what the program actually offers beyond intellectual understanding.
Episode Summary
Jeffrey B. opens this talk with gratitude for seeing an old-timer who once told him to “trust the process” back in 2003—a moment of spiritual awakening that sets the tone for his entire story. He begins by defining what it means to be an alcoholic according to the Big Book: the inability to quit entirely, and once drinking starts, the loss of control over the amount consumed. Jeffrey walks through his early life, describing a spiritual malady that showed up long before his first drink at age 17. By age 8, after being hit by a speeding car, he found himself asking why he should even be alive. Years of depression followed, untouched by alcohol.
His drinking started at 17 and quickly escalated. By 18, he was working underage at a bar in downtown Vancouver, surrounded by people from around the world, feeling like he’d finally arrived. At 22, he experienced a moment of clarity on the dance floor—a state of consciousness where he told himself he was drinking too much and needed to stop. He walked back behind the bar, got some coffee and water, then immediately served and drank more shots with customers. No mental defense.
Jeffrey’s disease progressed as his father, a strong Swedish man nicknamed “Hogi,” was diagnosed with cancer. While caring for a dying parent, Jeffrey descended into homelessness on Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside. On December 1, 1999, his father passed away. Days later, Jeffrey found himself walking across the Lion’s Gate Bridge, wondering how warm the water was. He has no memory of how he got to his brother’s house in Kitland an hour away—but he credits his uncle Rudy, who jumped from that same bridge at the same age and time of year, with somehow pulling him back. By God’s grace, he believes, he was saved.
In December 2002, Jeffrey entered a treatment facility. It was the best Christmas Eve of his life. He was given the Big Book and told to go work the steps. He sponsored himself through the steps in treatment. In March 2003, he relapsed—just one drink, he thought. But relapse, for him, led to more drinking and deeper delusion. On August 15, 2003, he called the treatment center again. This time, he was committed. That August date marks his sobriety date. By the grace of God, strong sponsorship, the 12 steps, and the fellowship, he has been sober since August 16, 2003.
Early on, at his first AA meeting (a men’s meeting called Newport Men’s), he experienced profound connection. A man in black overalls reached out and shook his hand—the first warm gesture he’d felt in a long time. He also saw someone from his past, a man named Chad who had sparked something in him years before. Though the meeting was full of Scottish accents he couldn’t understand, he felt something in the room. Something spiritual.
Jeffrey worked the steps with a sponsor but remained what he calls “mechanical AA.” He memorized the Big Book, sponsored others with the text tucked under his arm, but he was still angry, still broken inside. For fourteen years, he was dry but not truly sober emotionally. Then came the relapse.
At 14 years sober, Jeffrey found himself in a situation that filled him with “raging and righteous anger” unlike anything he’d felt before—not even while drinking. His brain offered him a solution: have a drink, just for two days, then go back to his home group on Monday. But as he walked toward the alcohol, he heard a voice: “You can do that, or you can come find us.” He white-knuckled that night and the next day spun a globe, putting his finger on the Richmond Roundup 2017. Nearly dead from the night before, guilt-ridden and afraid, he showed up broken.
At that roundup, three men in suits—Tim W., Marty J., and Lyle P. (who wrote “Grounded in the Big Book”)—sat with him at a table. They embraced him. Tim spoke first, telling his story. Then Marty got up to speak on Steps 6 and 7. Jeffrey tugged on Marty’s jacket and asked how he could possibly talk for an hour about 14 lines in the Big Book. Marty sat down later and said, “Watch.” Jeffrey had a spiritual awakening listening to Marty’s depth of understanding.
That day, Jeffrey asked Marty to sponsor him. They met at a coffee shop called the Laundry Mat with Jeffrey’s Big Book. This time, the steps were different. At page 30, they read: “We had to concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholic.” Marty asked if that’s what it says. It doesn’t. It says “innermost selves”—plural. Jeffrey realized he had to look at all his selves: the father self, the business owner self, the friend self, the Mr. AA self. They were all alcoholic.
On page 60-62, they dug into Step 3 in ways Jeffrey had never experienced. Step 3 is not just a quick prayer. There’s a requirement: understanding that when he runs his life, even with good intentions, it probably won’t be a success. Marty asked Jeffrey what he won’t give up—red lights, bank lineups, his spouse, his dogs, his three llamas in the backyard. What attribute must God have for Jeffrey to trust him? His God must have love, kindness, compassion, humor, and willingness.
In Step 4, Jeffrey learned that anger is a secondary emotion. Beneath it are hurt, threat, and interference. In the fourth column of the inventory, he practices forgiveness. Steps 6 and 7 became a meditative practice over five years with Marty. Step 6 is not about memorizing seven lines; it’s about experience. When disturbed, Jeffrey practices crossing his arms less and opening his hands in vulnerability. He practices baby’s breath—the way his newborn son Jeffrey breathed, controlled by his body, not his ego. He works to quiet the thousand monkeys in his mind down to nine hundred ninety-nine. He looks for God in his resentments, not just away from them.
Jeffrey tells the story of amending with his father. Years after his death, Jeffrey couldn’t find peace. He wrote letters and burned them ceremonially. But it wasn’t until he worked Step 9 with understanding of Steps 1-7 that healing came. His sponsor told him to “use God” in his amends. God showed Jeffrey that his father carried a pillow made by children from his wife’s daycare—kids who had signed it. His father loved those children and carried that pillow for the last three months of his life. Jeffrey sat by the pool his father built in the late 1970s, held that pillow with his mother, and voiced his amends. He became free.
A week later, Jeffrey had a vision of his father walking through his living room, looking healthy as the Viking Jeffrey remembered. His dad said, “I just want to see how you’re doing. I’m so proud of you. But there’s things I have to do.” He left, and Jeffrey woke standing in the middle of his living room. Freedom. The next week, he dreamed of being at a hospital with his mother and brothers. He levitated to look over a curtain and saw an older woman take her last breath while holding his father’s hand. His father looked at him and disappeared.
For years, Jeffrey became one of those “mechanical guys” again—sponsoring with the Big Book tucked under his arm, giving people this or that, dismissive of anything not in the first 164 pages. But the disease is progressive. Relapse starts at the current state of consciousness. If he stopped growing, stopped doing Steps 10 and 11, stopped practicing principles in all affairs, relapse would come. It did, at 14 years.
After his relapse and the Richmond Roundup, everything changed. With Marty, Jeffrey dug into the real meaning of Steps 6 and 7. He learned that Step 6 is the beginning of emotional sobriety, not knowledge. Through repetition—thought, word, action, habit, character, destiny—Jeffrey uncrossed his arms and opened his hands. He practiced vulnerability. He got his breath to a baby’s breath, letting go of ego control. He learned to look for God in his resentments and defects, not just away from them.
On page 119 of the 12 and 12, it says “Boy Meets Girl on AA Campus.” That’s Jeffrey’s story with his wife, Brandy (yes, named after a drink, he jokes). They’ve been together for 20 years, have three kids, and it hasn’t been easy. A year to the day after his relapse, he asked Marty to sponsor him. They’ve built a relationship beyond sponsorship—friendship, love, and the ability to tell each other hard truths.
Marty sponsored a man named Dwayne who passed away in 2020. When Dwayne died, Jeffrey prayed for Marty and asked his father Hogi to help Dwayne cross over. Everywhere Jeffrey goes, signs of his father show up—a white car with “HOGY” on the license plate, a street named Hogy. His father is still active in his life in beautiful ways.
Jeffrey closes with how he checks his sobriety: through his conduct, his relationships, his sponsorship work, his spiritual practice. He describes working Steps backwards to see where he stands—at the bank, at work, with his wife, with his animals, with himself. He talks about the importance of sponsoring newcomers and warns that sponsors need to get ready for an influx of people who only know AA through Zoom.
He emphasizes the importance of finding a spiritual awakening through Step 11—being divorced from self-pity, dishonesty, and self-seeking motives through the grace of a power found deep within page 55. If that’s not enough, it’s time to phone the sponsor and do another fourth step, understanding Step 1 powerlessness, Step 2 willingness, and Step 3 surrender.
Jeffrey ends by sharing two promises from AA: the government will always want their money, and no one ever has to drink again. He practices principles in all affairs not through willpower but through conscious contact with God and the action of doing. Even a frustration with weak coffee at a Starbucks becomes an opportunity to practice Step 11 and watch the “Barista Self” show up. His message is simple: trust the process, keep drawing near to God, and live life on God’s terms, not life’s terms.
Notable Quotes
If I’m going to one day not be here, why am I even here in the first place?
You can do that, or you can come find us.
We had to concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholic—not what it says, but what it means: all my selves are alcoholic.
Relapse starts at our current state of consciousness.
I promise you two things in Alcoholics Anonymous: the government wants their money, and you never have to drink again.
Step 3 – Surrender
Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
Sponsorship
Spiritual Awakening
Hitting Bottom
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Steps 6 & 7 – Character Defects
- Step 3 – Surrender
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Sponsorship
- Spiritual Awakening
- Hitting Bottom
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
welcome to sober Sunrise a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience strength and Hope from around the world we bring you several new speakers weekly so be sure to subscribe whether you join us in the morning or at night there’s nothing better than a sober Sunrise we hope that you enjoy today’s speaker my name is Jeffrey B and I’m an alcoholic Jeff five minutes before uh I just got introduced I just had a huge Spiritual Awakening I’m not really going to get to it but I’m a little bit flustered I got to see I got to see a man that just told me to trust the process back in 2003 and I haven’t seen him since maybe 2004 and I got to see him here today and we talk about this guy Within inside my household me and my wife uh quite often lately and this is the reason why is because he’s here so to who you are I love you I call myself an alcoholic so what is an alcoholic you know it it’s it’s in short you’re going to see me reference a bunch of pages out of the Alcoholics Anonymous literature it’s kind of what I do but it’s not that I’m going to base it on the first 100 men and women’s experience yes it will but I’m also going to base it on mine because I have a story you know in the literature talks about that I’m supposed to share in a general way what Jeff was like what happened and what Jeff is like now not what it was like because the it can get into a little bit of fables and dishonesty and and craziness right and I want to thank uh the Roundup committee everyone that’s been of service here I want to thank Rodney um um for doing what he does here and I also want to thank the facility and the people that Encompass this facility for allowing us to have this space for the weekend and once again I call myself an alcoholic so what is it so here’s a page a page reference page 44 the big book states that if Jeff honestly wants to he cannot quit entirely so what does that mean what does it mean that Jeff cannot quit entirely I’ve tried to stop drinking about 5500 times that’s what that means something happens with inside me with inside my brain where I think it’s okay or I’m not like you people or you know I remember 1996 Peach Fest MC Hammer was in the house and I went there that weekend and I drank and I went to work on Tuesday maybe I can drink again sort of thing right and then it says that if one drink and I can’t control the amount I take so what does that mean it means this Derek pocket games on tonight you got to work tomorrow I got to work tomorrow we got obligations we got stuff we need to do right so this just go to this little Pub watch a hockey game and only have one two or three drinks that’s it and what happens to me is that I don’t have one or two or three I have 1122 or 33 about 99.9% of the time that’s why I call myself an alcoholic one of the great things about this weekend is I get to share this Podium this microphone with this man right here sitting in the front row and his name is Marty J Marty Jay is my sponsor and he’s been my sponsor for just over five years so this is a great honor sir to be to be sitting in the room with you and sharing this Podium where am I going to begin I remember driving in my mom and dad’s car I was about 6 or seven years old and driving to the Children’s Hospital in Vancouver uh not really knowing why I’m going to the children’s hospital or why I’m there for two weeks straight why am I in the children’s psych board I’m not too sure still to today I don’t really know but I do know when it comes to an Insidious spiritual malady there’s something different about this guy at a really really young age you know I remember sitting there in the doctor’s office with this Dr s and uh talking about feelings you know and it made me feel real uncomfortable and the reason why I tell this this brief little historic story about myself is that there was something wrong with me you know not that my mom said or my dad said or my two brothers said or even the doctor said I I figured this out with inside 5 and 1 half inches between my ears and my mind you know and a year later I found myself back there again not sure what’s going on you know I was needles and and machines and these magic Milkshakes that uh I guess would tell these machines what’s going on with my body and all that kind of stuff and I remember looking at okay sometimes I’m just going to talk and I don’t even know what where it’s coming from but I remember looking out this window in the 70s and and at this playground at the Children’s Hospital and and a swing was going with just this one little kid on the swing you know just the loneliness that I thought this child might had you know and I could relate to that you know just being so alone moving forward into grade eight there’s about a week into into being in grade eight so you know just going through a third what a 13-year-old boy goes through a whole new school I had two friends that’s it two friends and and a few hundred people at the school and I got smoked by the speeding car and I did an end over my handlebars I landed flat on my knees and my stomach and I picked myself up and I heard this big this big bang and what this big bang was was my brain and my brain said this to me it said if I’m going to one day not be here why am I even here in the first place so already for for you know eight six to eight years of a depressive State I went into a really massive depressive state of not really understanding what life is and why even be around I haven’t even touched alcohol yet this all does not make me an alcoholic whatsoever age of 17 is when I had my first drink and I hated it I hated the way it tasted I hated the way it made me lose control of my body movements meaning stumbling all over the place you know I just couldn’t be me you know but there is something enticing about and I knew when I woke up the next day that I was probably going to do it again by the age of 18 I was working downtown in uh Vancouver at a bar this bar I will just keep it nameless but it was it was how how I got working there was I’m drunk and I’m playing foosball at this bar and I was playing against the owner of the bar and and I said if I beat you you have to hire me so I got in using my older brother’s ID and I beat him so the very next day which is a Sunday night I started working underage at uh this bar in downtown Vancouver and it was magic you know like our literature talks about when they’re drinking I have arrived and I have arrived I thought I was the guy off Studio 54 you know all hundreds of people coming into this establishment to see me I met people from all over the world especially from from not just BC but into the states into Washington into Portland and became friends with them and got them into the bars got them into other bars you know I was just lit up I was just on fire and what we had to do there was drink you know so I was I’m a beer Slinger by trade that’s what I do I did it for 12 years I remember when I was 22 years old inside that establishment I was behind the bar and this song came on okay my biggest fear today is dancing it still is it’s just something that I just don’t do I broke my toe a few months ago from dancing in the kitchen with my wife so it’s just yeah Jeff don’t dance sort of thing and intoxicated I jumped over the bar I went into that dance floor and I started Boogie into some sort of alternative rock music that was going on there and then I stopped I had a state of consciousness our literature talks about that we we cross this imaginary line I remember mine and this was it I stopped in the middle of that dance floor and I told myself you are so drunk you’re you’re a disgrace to this establishment you probably look horrible you’re probably even dancing horrible you need to stop drinking you need to go back behind the bar grab some water put some coffee on finish her job and go home so I did walk around the back of the bar put some coffee on had some coffee head so mod and the first customer that came up to me ordered two shots of this and two glasses of that and I P four shots of this and four glasses of that and I joined them no mental defense you want to relate you know that that carried on so my my drinking got so so out of control uh uh there um in the late in the late 90s my dad I was just going to refer him to as hogi because that’s his nickname he my dad Douglas is is his name and and uh he was about 66 250 lb tall handsome he was a viking he’s from Sweden he this guy was just an ox like a viking guy and uh but so gentle he was diagnosed with cancer so I’m already slowly burning my life down to the ground I can’t control my drinking I’ve tried to stop so many times you know when when you’re you’re singing in the porcelain bowl and then and then you you wake up and you’re bling on the chicken the night before that kind of thing and yeah he got diagnosed with cancer and then he became cancer three and then within a year or two years it came back and and it got right it was terminal and I watched my dad go from this big Viking to about 90 lb soaking wet hunched over could barely walk one of my last memories of him was him shuffling at St Paul’s Hospital just walking down the hallway and I remember this one time so I’m I’m a right off like I’m just out of control he looked over at me I looked at him and this is what he said to me he didn’t say it to me but this is what my brain said the reason I’m like this is because of you Jeff that’s what I thought he said that’s what I heard that’s what I heard my brain say and what Dad did is it sprouted me down to a bottom that I wish no one would ever get to and this bottom was like this I took a trip packed the bag with a Sketchbook as I like to draw a skateboard because I was an old 80s skater and one shoe and I packed my bags and found myself in a downtown east side of Vancouver homeless so as we know the downtown east side of Vancouver if you don’t Google it it’s where all of gods forgotten children go that’s what we used to call ourselves I was it’s the right in the middle of the downtown east side of Vancouver is Maine and Hastings so picture this Main in Hastings I’m one block on the west side at Hastings and Columbia looking at these people going I’m not like you I’m I’m living in the skids thinking I’m in the Hampton sort of thing right you know what I mean December 1st 99 my dad passed away I lost my king I lost the guy that brought me up you know what I mean and and hogy I found myself at the Lion’s Gate Bridge you know that bridge that separates the NorthShore from Stanley Park right it’s like the Golden Gate Bridge of San Francisco Majestic it’s got those Lions on both sides and I’m walking across I found myself in the middle of that bridge wondering how warm the water was and I woke up with my little brother’s house in kitland which is an hour away I don’t know how I got there how I got off that bridge I had no idea today I do and if we can think outside of the box this is how I know I’m named after one of my mom’s my mom’s little brother his name is Rudy that’s my middle name Rudy I know I feel it in my intuition was one of us but he couldn’t find us he was on that bridge at the age age of 30 like I was in November like I was almost to the day to the exact time he jumped he didn’t survive who do you think got me off that bridge obviously by a Grace of a loving power and my uncle I truly believe that story so I’m at my little brother’s house this was 200 2002 and uh my little brother he’s my big brother but he’s my little brother by age he he he works in the health industry and he’s a personal trainer and one of his clients was a guy named Corey W some you where are you I got to find you the guy I just saw before the meeting there you are you know who Corey W is and uh he was a director of a treatment facility and Chris my brother was talking to him about me and what I’m going through and he told Cory that he found me and Cory said okay keep him there don’t let him use the phone don’t let him leave your house he put me on restrictions before I’m even in treatment and in December December 24th I got into this treatment center and it was the best Christmas Eve of my life 2002 December 24th why was it the best because I opened that door to 50 men that were just like me some of them in different fellowships different issues but they all had a spiritual malady every single one and I felt somewhat part of I learned how to brush my teeth I learned how to do the dishes I learned how to cook food all this you know the living life kind of with inside a facility I was given one of these so this is my big book just got a nice cover that I got from Chris R from Texas and uh they said go up I have nothing against facilities I love them you know I love how the work they do they got me to meet you people but this is what happened to me it’s my truth in my story was I was given a big book to go to my room and read it and do the steps so I did so I sponsored myself Yeah March middle of March 2003 I decided it would be great to just have one drink that’s it just one drink you know just that one drink and then ended up having that one drink and then and then like like our friend that spoke earlier huh maybe I wasn’t that bad you know a week later I had one or two drinks a week after that I had I don’t even know I can’t count that high but what happened to me in that relapses it took me to more of an emotional bottom I didn’t there’s no Bridges but there was so much dishonesty there’s so much delusion there’s so much um defects of character are shortcomings just giv birth again and and my bottom this time was more of an emotional bottom and it was August 15th 2003 I phoned that treatment center and the person working at that certain Treatment Center bless him told me that I should have got it the first time hung got the phone and I said I know I knew who I need to phone and it was Corey so I phone Cory on his personal cell phone and he said get in there tomorrow we’re going to get you on a couch backtrack a little bit that first time in treatment my very first meeting with you people so check this out it was a Thursday night I’m 4 days sober it’s just after Christmas and we get into the the druggie buggy some of you might know about that stuff and and uh we go to this meeting it’s it was a men’s meeting called Newport men’s and this is my experience there and it was one of the it’s still today is one of my favorite experiences besides waking up each day to seeing my babies and my wife um I walked inside that door and there was this guy this guy stood out he was wearing black gashes pinstripe overalls a farmer Galore huge huge huge beard but this is what he did it might blow you out of the water it’s pretty fantastic as I walked in there and he put his hand out he put his hand out to me the last person I ever did that was a long long time ago prior to to that day right and I felt something I felt something it was good new but it was good and I walk into that room and there’s this table just like this some guy sitting here that we call the chairperson and there’s another person sitting over there called the secretary this guy this guy this guy when I turned 19 my first legal drink was in this pizza joint called Bella Pizza in Richmond BC there’s a man there a young man there named Chad Chad T we’ll just call him Chad was a man’s man this guy had the gift for the gab he knew what we was doing he was tall dark and handsome you know it’s like I want to be like that guy when I walked inside my first meeting there he was two and a half years over I’ve always wondered where Chad went I watched his life get a little crazy and then he just disappeared and there he was so that’s my first experience with you people that meeting was a men’s meeting like I said before and it was all Scottish people so I didn’t I couldn’t even understand anything they’re saying no idea I just kept looking at Chad and the guy at the door Santa Chad Santa Chad sort of thing but but there was something there I could feel it just like I could feel it here there’s something something going on so that relaps I ended up going back into treatment August 16 2003 so by the grace of a loving God strong sponsorship the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous The Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous our traditions and our Concepts I have been sober ever since August 16 2003 and for that I’m truly grateful into sobriety now I knew what I needed to do I knew I needed to learn to to to take directions from this treatment center but I also knew I needed to go back to where I met you people you know and not just to go to that meeting but just go to a bunch like what is it that you guys have I don’t quite know you know I’m still not an alcoholic yet yeah I’ve lost the power of choice and control and drinking but I’m still not an alcoholic I didn’t real realize I was an alcoholic in depth depth until I was 14 years sober I grabbed the sponsor his name um eludes me right now but he lives in the Nyo right now and the reason why I picked this man because he scared the poop out of me covered in tattoos he rote a rote a a big loud motorcycle exactly opposite what I would go to I’m like okay I need to change everything i d are I I went to Dave and I’m like Dave sponsor me and and and and and it’s is there a wrong way to sponsor I don’t know I don’t have the answer to that you know it’s is there a wrong way to do the steps I don’t know as long just do them you know just do them and if you’re new I know there’s someone new new here if if you’re trying to figure this out please just give us to your halfway through step nine give us to that cuz something’s going to happen at that point he took me through this desk he said Jeff are you an alcoholic I said yes you believe in a power greater than yourself I’m willing let’s get on our knees and do the third step prayer that fast there’s nothing wrong with that but I miss the four wordss I miss the opinion I miss more about alcoholism I missed our friends Jim Fred the man of 30 and my best friend the Jay Walker I I love that story The jaywalker it’s it’s such my go-to because it it explains the progressiveness of this disease let’s look at the jwalker the jwalker the guy likes to go across the street and get hit by moving Vehicles right the first is a car ah gentle it’s just a car hopefully it’s a little Volkswagen but he gets hurt he goes to the hospital he recovers and then he decides to do it again this time he gets hit by a trolley we call them buses today a little bit bigger than a Volkswagen see the progressiveness gets hurt I think he even has brain damage goes to the hospital recovers physically steps outside of that hospital and he sees that fire engine and that fire engine is going fast if the siren going he jumps out in front of it the progressiveness of our disease that is a really crazy story in our big book but it I can relate late to it and we started doing the four step you know I got through the 12 steps I had somewhat of a spiritual awakening I kind of liked what what you guys had I’m willing to go to any I’m somewhat willing to go to any length to get it but I fell in love with the rooms of vaa I fell in love with talking in in front of microphones I’m the type of person if you see me outside of this room and we’re at dinner I’m quiet I’m this guy way over here even today but something happens to me like your energy the spirit this God thing that fills this room the spirit of what’s in this room that isn’t AA is here something happens my reset is a paralyzed mind picture that paralyzed I can’t move M I can’t speak that’s my was my go-to it’s not today but that’s who who I used to be so I fell in love with you people and and and things were starting to go real real good and and uh I remember um that second time through treatment going through the steps and we got step step nine inside this facility and there’s one there’s two things I one I would not even bring up I didn’t even put in my for step and and the second thing is I just don’t know how I just didn’t know how and the one thing I wouldn’t bring up was was was whatever it was and and today it’s a financial amends and today it’s still not being amended but the willingness is there and and the financial part of it is in the bank collecting High interest until that day happens right it’s there I can’t find the people I don’t know anything about it but it’s there it’s there and uh the other one was when my dad there’ll be three times when you’re going to see me teed and it’s just gratitude it’s not sorrow and it’s when I talk about my father here it comes when I look at this man I’m want to talk about my wife a month before my dad passed away I’m in their house so I’m homeless but I’m in their house his wife Wallets on the table I pick his wallet up and I stifle through it and whatever I found I put into my pocket and I turned around he was right there right behind me he’s so cancer broken and he’s watching his middle son do this stuff and he looked at me in tears why you doing this and I didn’t know what to say I looked at him and I just left I just left I couldn’t even live with myself with that how do how does an untreated practicing alcoholic who’s got all these insecurities all these fears all these defects live with that and how we do that is we drink we drink so we can get the effects produced a sense of some sort of delusional ease and comfort how am I supposed to make amends to that one he’s not here physically he’s in the absolute truth my dad has no form so this is what I did I wrote a letter read it to myself threw it in the garbage yeah it was kind of okay you know something happened but then the next time through the steps he came up again in my four step I’m like okay he’s in he’s in my list in my e step how am I going to do this it’s still it’s not done it’s not done so I wrote a letter I read it to another man ceremonial burning huh I can breathe a little bit easier but when I saw my mom I looked at my brothers or thought about my dad worry remorse and morbid reflection were still there 7 years into my sobriety I’m sitting in the back the back of the meeting you know what they say about people sitting in the back of the meeting it’s a shoe it’s a shoe section it’s where the slippers the loafers and the sneakers hang out that was me because it’s right by the exit door right after the meeting was over this man named Charles S he might get a tier to Charles S I hope you people can meet him this man changed my life this is what he did he came to the back of the room and he said Jeff my name’s Charles and I’m like yeah I know who you are I’m untreated in the rooms with a little bit of not even sobriety I am just dry and I introduced myself and I had this feeling of finally like safety answers because I was dying in the rooms of AA and he said well you are you willing to meet me at my house this Monday and bring your big book and I said yes sir yes I am and I met aa’s house and this is what he did with me and it will blow you out the water too just like Santa with his hands he sat across the table from me opened up the big book had a 12 and 12 right there for six and seven stuff you know because the big book six and seven 14 lines in the big book that’s all I’m saying with it right but I we went through steps 1 through 12 with step five with another guy named Randy P who is my sponsor at the time and it took us about 8 and 1 half hours over eight eight weeks we went through it all and I got lit up things changed I heard I heard what this the message is book at I heard what you guys are saying and you guyss are saying in these rooms and I started to sponsor people you know I it was I was on fire step nine came up with my dad what am I going to do now and this is what the man said to me he said use God use God in these amends and this is what God gave me Jeff your dad before he died he he carried this pillow this pillow that my mom’s daycare kids my mom had a daycare these little kids five and under all did their own uh uh signature and one of the moms sewed it onto this pillow and he carried this around for about the three last three months of his life it helped his back when he sat down was the main reason why and he loved these kids he said go grab that pillow go to your mom and dad’s house grab your mom get her permission if it’s okay for you to do this and you go sit by the pool that your dad made for his three boys back in the late 70s cuz I remember every Sunday morning waking up and I knew where my dad was he was cleaning the pool in the middle of summer and he loved doing it for us so I made direct amends to my dad through my mom and it worked I had to voice it I had to voice it to someone that knew as well knew my actions knew who I was knew who he was and she listened and she gave me feedback and she said Jeff you missed this this this this which I did and I became free and how I know I became free the next week end I’m sitting at my house so I’m not quite married I have two beautiful little babies these these angels and I’m sitting on the couch it’s in the middle of the day and my doorbell goes this is about 2007 2008 so I’m like five five years sober six years sober and uh I opened the door and guess who was at the door my dad obviously it was some sort of vision but he was there and he walked into this room and he said Jeff I just want to see how you’re doing and he looked like the Viking I grew up with he looked so healthy and he paraded around the house and he said I’m so proud of you but there’s things I need to do there’s things I have to do and he left and I woke up standing up in the middle of the living room not where I first started started with on the couch Freedom another week goes by I have this dream so it’s at night it’s at night and and it’s a dream I had to go to the hospital and I needed to bring my mom and my two brothers and you know I fly my dreams I’m like super crazy Superman in the dreams so I’m sitting there in the hospital and and they have a drape around someone that’s in the room there and I levitate to look over the drape and there’s this older lady she lived a graceful life she was in like in her 90s and she took her last breath and I watched her cross over but she was holding someone’s hand guess whose hand it was hogi he looked at me and he disappeared that’s what my dad does today and by the grace of the 12 Steps of AA and this power and strong um Step 12 work because Charles wasn’t my sponsor but he carried a message I became free of the the biggest amends that this guy had to had to make and overcome and be free from so eight or nine years so I became one of these maybe you can relate to it I became one of these that I know that on page 95 line two sixth and seventh word is you’re welcome it is look it up I became one of those animal mechanical guys I started sponsoring a lot of people with my big book tucked under my arm not that there’s anything wrong with that you know one of my favorite animals in in in the Disney movie Bambi is is the rabbit Thumper but if it wasn’t in the first 164 forget about the forward in the doctor’s opinion I went from 1 to 164 I’d give you one of these it’s not in here come on no I don’t need to hear it I became one of those and what eventually happened because our disease is Progressive like some of you have already talked about is that I truly believe relapse starts at our current state of consciousness what does that mean Jeff okay so relapse is up here and now I start to become a little bit more conscious I become more awoke I be I start to practice principle see the relapse is starting to go down I’m starting to you know be free I have these resentments are starting to to go away the fear is starting to fall from me all this stuff so I’m like this you know but this is just it’s going to if I don’t continue if I don’t not just maintain but if I don’t grow if I don’t do 10 and 11 and discipline myself to do 1011 if I don’t look at all my innermost selves that I’m an alcoholic if I don’t do the for step if I don’t do all this the inventory especially if I don’t carry this message and if I don’t practice these principles in all our affairs this happens relapse happens took about three years three or four years from that day from the guy with the big butt tucked under arm I ran and and I was talking to Marty like Marty how do I tell this story in a general way without breaking anonymity with the with the people even with the structure I might have been in you know how do I protect anonimity in a big way because I don’t ever want to break it and I found it and you know where I found it in the big book and you know how I found it is that I found the big book that came from a retreat and you know when people sign like we just did there people write things and this one person wrote she’s from Colona and she wrote page 206 saved my life what’s in page 206 women suffer too what’s what is she talking about there and I started to read it and this is what it says I found found myself I found myself in the situation that filled me with the Raging and righteous anger I’m 14 years silver I’m Mr Thumper I’m the guy that has the book T tucked under my arm I’m becoming very very animal mechanical with with our our program there’s not much love not much love a lot of knowledge no experience and one night it was a Friday night I found myself in a situation that filled me with a raging and righteous anger let me say it again I found myself in a situation that filled me with a raging and righteous anger that’s what it was like I was so angry at the situation that I have never felt an anger like this even as a child before drinking or during drinking this was new this was so new and like my new friend talked about in his little share my brain did this you know I’ll fix that jff a drink get off that stool you are 20 ft behind you in a nice box is a bunch of Boos you need to go get some and you need to show these people what they’re doing to you and I thought yeah and I thought of Hazel my seven-year-old daughter then I thought about Oliver my 12-year-old son then I thought about Jeffrey my 17-year-old son then I thought about my wife Brandy yeah this alcoholic had to marry a lady named Brandy named after a booze of course the reason why I say that is because that they didn’t have the power to save me because I still got off that seat that I was sitting in and I still made my way to over where this ice box is that was loaded with a lot of alcohol and on my way there my brain still was doing stuff to me and this is what my brain said my brain said you know what it’s Friday your home group’s on Monday just do this for two days and go back to your home group on Monday you guys heard the beginning in a General way what my story was that’s not what this guy does I have one I’m going to have a 100 and I’m going to go find a bridge and probably this time I’m probably going to see how warm the water is I’m probably going to feel how warm the water is that’s what happens to me but I believe just go back to your home group on Monday do this for two and a half days show the pain people are are showing you you know feel all this kind of stuff and I went to go do it little did I know I went 20 ft past the ice boach into into a bathroom and I found myself looking at the looking at myself in the mirror and I got the cold sweats and I heard this voice and if you guys were in that room you would have heard it too and this is what this voice said to me it said you can do that or you can come find us you guys would have heard it and I white knuckled it that night page the bottom of page 43 says that we won’t have this mental defense except in few rare cases that was the rare case where Were Somehow there was a rare case where I didn’t drink that night and I white knuckled it and I woke up the next day and I spun the globe and I put my finger wherever this lands I’m going to go and I’m going to seek AA there and it was called the richond Roundup 2017 I go to the richond Roundup almost dead from the night before almost drunk from the night before guilt worry remorse morbid reflection I got I’m riding the Four Horsemen but I had enough willingness to go and I go and this is how I showed up yeah broken so afraid and I showed up to you people with this under that’s my ego my egoic personality Mr AA in an egoic way but I’m I’m dying and I sit down at this round table by myself in complete isolation this man in the suit comes up and sits down beside me introduces himself as Tim W we just start chatting about nothing just chatting and I’m pretending I’m faking everything and then another man in a suit we’ll call him Mr Marty J this man right here he sits down he knows man in suit number one Tim W they start conversing they start conversing with me I’m like okay this is weird what’s going on here something’s going on here I don’t know what it is but whatever another guy in the sup suitman number three sits down this guy’s short but built like an ox this guy had a lot of energy and a lot of oomph behind his Vibe he sits down he knows Marty you know and he’s talking to Tim they’re all chatting away and I’m sitting there going okay what the deal what is this so This Man suit number three wrote grounded than the big book his name is ly P so back to the washer the night before I had a choice to go to God or not to go to God and thank God I went to God because God put me in front of three Heroes there are no heroes in na but that day there were three Marty Tim and Lyle and they embraced me they embraced me and the chairperson of that round up goes we have a a special guest for our first Speaker his name is Tim W from Portland Oregon I think he’s a descendant from Chucky lineage and he went up there suitman remember one when I told his story I’m like okay whoa this is this is just a little this is Lots this is this is so much stuff he sat down I’m like what is going on here in my brain and then she said okay we have another guy going to do his name is Marty J and he’s going to do an hourong talk on six and seven I show up and I as he pushes his chair back I tug on his soup jacket and I go Marty how you going to do this it’s 14 lines in the big book you got to do this for an hour really how you going to do this he went up there introduced himself as Marty J sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous and he looked at me and he said watch today this is 2007 5 years later if he had enough if they didn’t shut that Roundup down that night like if it didn’t close he wouldn’t even be on step seven he would not even be there yet he’d still be in Step six there’s so much in Step six and seven he sat down and I’m having these moment I’m having an Awakening I’m like Tito get me a tissue I don’t know what’s going on here Lyall goes up there and tell his amazing grounded story and it lit me up and the next day or that day Marty I don’t even know when but I said Marty I need a sponsor will you sponsor me and this is what this guy did he said yes meet me at a coffee shop called the laundry mat at at this such and day bring your big book that it down we sat down there we started going through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and a way that I’ve never been done before it’s in a way where where where we really focus he really knew how to focus what my issues were you know yeah I’m dry mean I haven’t had a drink in 14 years but I’m an emotional wreck you know we got to page 30 of the big book and it says we started reading it and I read it we had to concede to our innermost self that I was alcoholic is that what it says no it doesn’t and you going what are you talking that does J no it doesn’t we had to concede into our innermost selves it’s plural so I got to look at all my alcoholic selves I got to look at all my egoic personalities Mr AA self father self friend self business owner self all these selves and I didn’t realize that I omitted them all being alcoholic they all are every single one of them I had a moment there I had a huge Awakening I got into the willingness of the second step and then we got into Pages 60 to 62 step three holy it’s not just a third step prayer is not just a decision and get on your knees and do a prayer or don’t get on your knees and do a prayer there’s so much more to that there’s a requirement in there a requirement I have to understand this if I don’t I’m going to have a hard time with 4 through 12 a real hard time I had to understand that Jeff when you run your life even though you meant well it probably won’t be a success and I had to go through all the different instances in my in my current life uh where I was running the show you know and it looks like this ask yourself today what won’t What You Won’t Give Up red lights Bank lineups spouses dogs cats cats three llas 30 chickens true story they’re in my backyard I live on a little hobby Farm why won’t you give those up why and then how would God have you be in that and how God would have me be as this it’s like an attribute what attribute does your God need to have in order for you to trust him it her whatever it is the god of your own understanding Rab’s God might be a majestic e Eagle going up this mountain side and mine might be a three-legged llama it doesn’t matter we’re all still going to the same place right whatever it is whatever own conception is my God has to have love my God has to have kind has to have compassion my God even has to have page 132 humor we insist on enjoying life now let’s do the third step prayer you know in the four step 1 2 3 columns 1 2 3 4 columns 1 1 2 and three or victim mode this is where I get to be the victim right and and this is what where it was shown to me was that okay yeah okay so you’re you’re angry at this place institution or principle you know so what was really going on for you because anger is a secondary emotion Jeff where are you hurt where are you threatened what’s been interfered with never saw that never looked at it I just saw anger was anger you know one of these sort of things you know are sitting in the back of the room with your nose scrunched up like you’re smelling something sour anger her hurt threat interference now we get to go into the fourth column and I didn’t realize that the third and the fourth column is a meditative practice it’s a medit for me it’s a meditative practice where I get to start practicing through the willingness of the thir third step to forgive column 1 to forgive column 1 and when I get to forgive column 1 I get to move into the fourth column and eliminate everything about the other person forget about them completely Jeff where are you to blame doesn’t say Jeff what’s your part in it where are you to blame and thank goodness it doesn’t say Jeff what’s your part my part tells me that it that you still have a my part what about yours it’s a judgment statement this is just the way I see it where are you to blame and we got to work through all that we did a fifth step and then we got into step six step six is like this you’re on the tip of an iceberg you’re sitting there you’ve memorized the seven lines in Step six on page 76 of the big book but there’s so much below the iceberg that you can only see through experience that you can only it’s not about knowledge it’s all experiential cuz remember I was one of those those guys with the big boat that memorized all the black letters all the black numbers all the black words in this l in this book but I was missing experience our book talks about experience and knowledge not knowledge and experience just like it says love and tolerance and not tolerance and love this is what tolerance and love looks like love and tolerance is more like this you know when I’m disturbed you can see the step six you can actually see it it’s almost like Unity service recovery Mind Body Soul because I’m disturbed and I’m like this something ain’t going my way I have a resentment before this guy’s sharing again at this meeting he’s going to say the same thing again Jesus here comes a broken weedwacker whatever it is and I’m sitting there like this I’m disturbed but through repetition through the repetition of thought word action habit character Destiny it’s an equation for a complete psychic change and doing this over five years with this man with my God is that I get to uncross my arms you’ll see them get uncross and then my wrist will slightly upwards not like this sort of thing but just like this because this is is vulnerable this is vulnerable this isn’t this is like standoffish this is naked you know what I mean it’s it’s kind it’s vulnerable it’s scary it’s new then I get my breath to Jeffrey when Jeffrey was first born he wasn’t breathing he wasn’t breathing this is what but he was breathing meaning it wasn’t controlled I get some people like to breathe nothing wrong with that doesn’t work for me I like to get to a baby’s breath where it’s not controlled so I remember looking down at Jeffrey he’s not breathing but his tummy’s going in and out it’s just going in and out his ego isn’t breathing his body’s just breathing it’s just breathing I get my breath to that and I have these thousand monkeys in my brain and I try to get it down to 9999 because it’s one less of a thousand and hopefully I can get it down to 998 997 etc etc this is my entirely ready now I’m getting entirely ready because what you’re what Jeff is looking for Jeff is looking with so I have a resentment but I’m going to look for God like this I’m not saying it’s not going to work but look at the depth by doing something like this and watching your breath you know getting out of that dark room and getting into light step six it keeps going and now I get to humbly go to this power and God please remove this defect of fear of hurt threat you know self-reliance self- knowledge and help me show up show up how you would have me be not for my freedom so I can be of service so I can be of service to you so I can be of service to my kids and all my animals and my wife and my employees and all that kind of stuff six and seven it it’s it’s remarkable my wife Brandy I wish you could all meet this lady wow you know our literature comes true it does because page 119 of the 12 and 12 it says this one Boy Meets Girl on AA campus that’s our story 20 years ago we’re still together we have three kids it’s not been easy you know it’s been a little bit difficult a year to the day that my 14 years thing happened so I’m being sponsored by Marty and we just hit it off me and this guy have a relationship that it goes Beyond sponsorship there’s so much friendship there’s so much love I can ask him things I would ask my dad I can ask him things that I’d ask my best friend and then I also get sponsorship from him I I remember phoning him one day Justified I am so Justified and he’s going to back me up Marty hey guess what this this this this XYZ and this is what he said to me that was really inconsiderate and excessive and I’m like what Marty you know I’m sensitive page 125 tells me so but he gives me the truth and he’s given me so much support so much Marty sponsored Dwayne Dwayne he’s going to talk about him he’s he’s also got a nickname that Marty will get into but Dwayne passed away February 7th 20 19 or 20 and and uh and this is what I did I I I knew that you know this is Marty’s F this is the guy that sobered Marty up 47 years ago and he’s going to have feelings I’ll go to God I go God Dwayne passed away um Marty’s going to go through whatever he’s going to go through can you can you be there for him and then I went to hogi because I know what Dad does he helps people cross over I go Dad when you meet Shrek can you grab his hand you know and you two can go feed clany his coffees I got I left my office went to Starbucks and this white car cut me off cut me right off and they looked at the license plate and guess what the license plate said hogy he showing up everywhere I was in Portland at rule 62 in March this year doing a pitch down there and and with with my wife she came with me and Oliver he’s got he’s he’s allergic to peanuts tree nuts almonds fish all this stuff so we got to watch what we bring home grocery wise you know we got to watch what we eat we’re down there we’re like yes sweet let’s go get Chinese food we can do something like that so we go to get it I have it on on on uh the navi system and I missed the turn off and I go to my wife Brandon like babe I just missed a turn off and she goes no you didn’t look at the street guess what the Street’s name was yeah hogy he just the guy just he’s in my life still today in in in great ways you know I’m I’m one of those people that just can’t let things go I got to do stuff I am not like Anna and Elsa are Frozen Let It Go that doesn’t work for me because all that does for me is I stuff it down it’s like putting it on the back bur and it’s going to boil over again I got things that I need to do you know and it’s both our 12 step it says to practice these principles in all all our Affairs how do we practice principles in all our Affairs raise your hand and if you’re in your last 30 days last 30 days sweet no one put their hand up because I don’t want anyone to be in their last 30 days how do we check to see if we’re in our last 30 days hypothetically you know I do air quotes and and metaphors that don’t even make sense but how do we look at that well let’s look at it you know let’s do the steps backwards how are you at the bank how are you at work how are you with your wife how are you showing up how is your conduct with the human race you know how are you with your animals how are you with yourself ask yourself all these questions and then go are you sponsoring people yeah well I’m still sponsoring the two people that I originally sponsored 80 years ago well what’s what about the new person where’s your new EXP experience with that go grab a new guy the co thing is it’s coming to an end sponsors we are going to get rattled with sponses pretty soon here get ready let’s pull our big boy and big girl book pants up and get ready to go sponsoring all these people that have only know AA through Zoom through modem to modem have you had a spiritual awakening how far back do you have to go to find Glory how far back do you got to go I hope we don’t have to go far back right now well maybe an hour ago was where you found gloryia you probably not find any gloryia in this pit here but I’m just saying how far back do you got to go and if you can’t find it when you walk through those doors here I hope you found it on awakening Step 11 on awakening where we get to be divorced and self-pity dishonest and self-seeking motives by the grace of a power that we found deep down within page 55 hopefully that’s as far back as we need to go to find Grace to find Glory if you got to go back any more than that then let’s phone your sponsor and get into a fourth step coupled with understanding the self and step one the willingness in step two and What You Won’t Give Up in the third step what are you doing on page 84 when you get Disturbed are you at once immedi medely or quickly going to God calling someone making amends are you where are you in your night step where are you in your amends from when you first sobered up whether it be a day ago or whether it be 83 years ago where are you in that where are you in your ninth step in your current step your steps are you are you being honest and open about about talking talking about your life and your situations today with your sponsor fifth step you know where are you in your fourth step you know are there you still being a victim if we are if I’m like that then what I’ve done is I’ve placed myself on the bridge of Reason page 53 the bridge of reason is a good thing so what I’ve done is I’ve came off the shore of Glory of Faith of Our three legacies and I went onto this bridge and it’s a good thing because now I get to look at self and acknowledge that okay I ain’t perfect you know or okay I got stuff going on for me so now I have two choices you know I get to go to what it says on page 133 where we get to cheerfully capitalize on it so we can let God demonstrate his power or I can go into this go into the fear inventory I can go into self- knowledge and self-reliance which will show up as fear and hurt which will show up as anger I get to do all that stuff and being on the bridge of Reason like I said isn’t bad but if you stay there for someone of my variety watch out I’m not saying you’re going to drink but you will definitely think if we stay on the bridge a reason it’s like this I have a gun I’m going to put a six shooter I’m going to put Six Bullets in there I’m going to put it to my temple and I’m going to pull the trigger hoping the gun jams roulette and why is it roulette I’m going to read it word for word it was quoted page 24 but not this paragraph the fact is that Jeff for reasons yet obscur of lost the power of choice and drink Jeff’s so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent Jeff is unable at certain times to bring into her Consciousness with sufficient Force the memory and suffering of humiliation may even been a week a month or 19 years ago Jeff is up without defense against the first first drink Jeff is without defense against the first think now I’m deciding to be on this bridge knowing there’s a solution but I’m not going to let go of that doorknob I’m not going to drop the rock because I want it my way see how scary that is if you’re a real alcoholic if you’re an alcoholic of my variety that suffers from whether it be a two-fold or three-fold illness whatever it is relapse starts at a current state of consciousness where are you in your Consciousness I love AA I love it so so much from a guy that was full of fear for his entire life from a guy who thought he would never get married I never thought I would have kids I didn’t think I was going to make it till I was to 30 years old it’s a direct result of AA without it I would have nothing the last two years have been super sensitive in my life relationship renovation covid we’ve all been there business having an effect on Co Co having an effect on business 17-year-old son yeah cancer for me Co is a blessing just look at this from an entirely different angle for me because of and because of modem the modem and because certain people that’s got this Zoom thing going there’s some of us that just grabbed onto it and then sh shared it with the world my buddy Mike McKay who’s gone now he’s one of them from St Louis put me in front of a lot of people I started to sponsor people and that weren’t local I have a beautiful sponsy named markm from Chicago who is blowing me out of the water with his foure of sobriety I sponsor a guy named in in in uh London wow 16 years so where was where I was at at 14 years so and I’m watching the change there I go to I go home and I watch my wife hairess losing weight suffering cancer how am I going to do this sponsorship that’s how you do it trust me my friend or any from Cambridge Ontario flew here to bury his brother who died of this disease looked at me and goes Jeff I don’t know how you’re doing this and I said Ernie I’m not doing this trust me if I was doing I’d be dead God’s doing this I have to keep drawing near because we don’t know what life is going to give us I’m a firm believer that I don’t live life on life’s terms I get it but I’m trying my best to live life on God’s terms how would God have me be and that being develops in the action of doing and that’s how Jeff is trying to show up up because I can show up in a way where I Barista s because the coffee is not strong enough and get real angry over that that’s a true story true story I woke up one day and I’m so tired and I have a business meeting that work to do and the self showed up knocking on my door going you got to go downstairs and makes that coffee and make it super strong and I’m like whoa where did you come from Mr Barista elf let’s do some Step 11 around that I can promise you two things in Alcoholics Anonymous the government wants their money they do and you never have to drink again my name is Jeff I’m a Silber member of Al thank you for listening to sober Sunrise if you enjoyed today’s episode please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message until next time have a great day