AA Speaker – Karl M. – Los Angeles, CA – 2015
AA speaker Karl M. from Los Angeles shares how he discovered the physical allergy and mental obsession of alcoholism, and how sponsorship and step work transformed his life in recovery.
Karl M., an AA speaker from Los Angeles, got sober on January 21st, 1987 after years of desperation drinking while on antabuse in the Navy. In this talk, he walks through what it actually means to be an alcoholic—the bizarre physical and mental relationship with alcohol that no amount of willpower can fix—and how a sponsor named Eddie C. taught him to build a life in the center of Alcoholics Anonymous instead of visiting the fellowship while trying to make life work on his own.
Karl M. explains alcoholism as a twofold condition: a physical allergy to alcohol that creates an uncontrollable craving once drinking starts, and a mental obsession that allows him to rationalize drinking no matter the consequences. He describes his military service, antabuse drinking, early sponsorship with his first sponsor and later with Eddie C., and how living in the center of AA rather than in the outside world has been the foundation of his 28 years sober. Karl emphasizes that the solution to alcoholism isn’t willpower but spiritual awakening through steps, service, and working with other alcoholics.
Episode Summary
Karl M. opens with a simple but profound statement: the defining feature of his life isn’t his accomplishments or failures—it’s that he’s an alcoholic. From that foundation, he builds a complete picture of what alcoholism actually is, not through theory but through his lived experience.
He describes alcoholism in two parts. First, there’s the physical allergy—what the Big Book calls it. When he drinks, something strange happens: the more he drinks, the thirstier he gets. He contrasts this with normal drinking. Half a bottle of water? He’ll never crave a case of it. But alcohol is different. It rewires something in his body. The phenomenon of craving is real and physical.
The second part is the mental obsession. When he’s not drinking, his mind has a supernatural ability to rationalize the next drink, no matter what pain he caused himself or others in the last binge. His mind will paint any picture, tell any story, justify anything—to get him back to that first drink. This is the trap: he can’t drink successfully because of the physical reaction, and he can’t stay sober on his own because of the mental obsession. He’s damned either way.
What struck Karl most powerfully when he first walked into AA meetings—fresh out of a military treatment center with 45 days sober—was that other alcoholics could describe both parts of this strange condition. Nobody had ever given him the words before. He’d felt it his whole life. He’d wanted to scream it. And here were people talking about it like yesterday’s news, like they’d known it all along.
Karl spends significant time on his early sobriety. A sponsor grabbed him that first night, dragged him to 18 meetings over one weekend, and showed him what it meant to actually work with a newcomer. That sponsor was grieving—his girlfriend had just left him for another member—but instead of isolating, he poured himself into service. He understood that the solution was outside himself. That one action likely saved Karl’s life.
His first sponsor on the ship, Bob W., became the model for what a sponsor does: he didn’t ask Karl’s permission; he just started working with him because he understood that by helping the newcomer, he stayed sober himself. Bob was deeply involved in AA—he knew the Big Book, he had a sponsor, he was an active member. And because of that, he could reach out and say, “Come do what I’m doing,” and effectively help save a life.
After the Navy, Karl moved to Southern California and met Eddie C., who became his sponsor for the next 10 years and taught him perhaps the most valuable lesson of his sobriety: live in Alcoholics Anonymous and visit the world, not the other way around. Eddie told him to put newcomers in his car, and Karl objected—he was busy with school and work and life building. Eddie’s response cut through: “School and work is what we do in between meetings.” That single shift in perspective has kept Karl centered for 28 years.
Karl talks openly about his marriage, which didn’t work out, but resulted in two children—eight and ten years old—whom he loves more than his own life. He describes a moment of clarity about character defects: they don’t go away, but when he focuses on working with other people instead of obsessing over his own problems, the defects lose their power. When he’s busy helping someone else, his problems iron themselves out in ways he couldn’t have engineered.
Near the end, Karl addresses his understanding of God. He doesn’t see God in abstract theological terms. He sees God through Alcoholics Anonymous—he feels God when talking with other alcoholics, when hearing the music of connection in the rooms. His Higher Power is specifically designed for alcoholics. He references a story about Abraham gathering the world’s greatest spiritual leaders, and they decided to give alcoholics their own specific pathway to God because no other one was working for them.
The most striking moment comes when Karl contrasts his perception of reality with his mother’s. After 13 years sober, he watches his mother decline a second tiny glass of wine at a fancy French dinner. When he asks why, she explains that wine dulls her perception—it makes the brilliant colors blurry, the music distant, the people less interesting. For her, a little alcohol diminishes life.
For Karl, it’s the opposite. Sober, life feels dull and he feels boring. With alcohol, the colors become vivid, the music comes alive, he becomes interesting. This isn’t just preference—it’s a fundamental difference in how his brain responds to alcohol. His brother and sister-in-law are different again: they drink to escape life and get sloppy. Karl drinks to join life. That’s why, Karl says, he will go to the gates of insanity or death to get a drink, and they won’t. That’s why Alcoholics Anonymous, for him, is about learning to see the colors of life, hear the music, and connect with other people—without a drink. That’s the entire purpose of the steps.
Notable Quotes
The fact that I’m an alcoholic is what has driven my bus. It’s whether I’ve been drunk or sober. It’s the thing that has made the decisions in my life.
I had felt that my whole life. I wanted to scream it. But if you knew how I felt when I wasn’t drinking, you wouldn’t be asking me why I drink.
School and work is what we do in between meetings. And what he was really telling me is that I need to live in Alcoholics Anonymous and visit the world instead of trying to hash it out there in the world and visiting Alcoholics Anonymous when convenient.
I would literally have met who I would die for. I would trade them for the first drink never in a million years. But I would trade them for the second drink like that. So there is nothing more important than me staying in the center of Alcoholics Anonymous.
What she’s saying is up and by herself, she sees the colors of life. She hears the music and she can connect with God’s other kids. Me, by myself, I cannot see the colors of life. I cannot hear the music. And you’re goddamn boring. I get four or five drinks in me and, oh, look at those colors. That’s why I will go to the gates of insanity or death and they won’t.
Sponsorship
Step 12 – Carrying the Message
Spiritual Awakening
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 1 – Powerlessness
- Sponsorship
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Spiritual Awakening
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. We hope to always remain an ad-free podcast, so if you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-onrise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. Good evening.
My name's Carl. I'm an alcoholic. Like to thank Rose for asking me to come out and talk.
I'd like to thank Denny and Steve and Patty for inviting me to dinner and sending me to the wrong restaurant. They did really. They really did.
H. Anyway, my sobriety date is January 21st, 1987. I'm 54 years old.
So, I've been sober in Alcoholics Anonymous more than half my life. And the most important thing I can tell you about myself is that I'm an alcoholic. There's a lot of other things that I can talk about that I uh aspire to be, have tried to do, to be, have been successful at, have failed miserably at, that want to do that.
lots of other things about my life, but the defining defining feature of my life is that I'm an alcoholic. It's really the thing that has driven my bus. I'm I'm stuck up against here a little bit.
Anyway, let me try. There we go. All right.
It's the defining feature of my life. It really is. It's whether I've been drunk or sober.
It's the thing that has made the decisions in my life. The fact that I'm an alcoholic. And the reason I believe I'm an alcoholic is really very very simple.
The reason I believe I'm an alcoholic is because I've got a really bizarre relationship with alcohol. That's it. There's no other reason.
It's just based upon my relationship with alcohol. And this strange relationship that I have with alcohol takes on a few forms. The first part of this strange relationship that I have with alcohol happens when I drink it.
A very strange thing happens when I drink booze. The book calls it an allergic reaction. And the book says the symptom of this allergic reaction that I get when I drink booze is what they call the phenomenon of craving.
And the best way that I can describe this thing that the book calls a phenomenon of craving in my life is that it seems like whenever I drink booze, the more booze I drink, the thirstier I get. It happens with nothing else, just booze. An example of that is they're kind enough to give me this bottle of water.
And over the next uh 27 minutes that I'm going to talk with you, I will probably drink at least half this bottle. However, once I finish this bottle of water, I absolutely can guarantee you that I am not going to go get a case of water and lock myself in a motel room. Really, there's no chance of that happening.
Not at all. There's no chance that I'm going to at 2 a.m. call up Dieser and say, "Des, dude, dude, dude, come on.
I need another case. I need another case. I'll turn the pink slip my car over." Right?
It's not going to happen. But if that was the only thing that made me alcoholic, this bizarre physical reaction that I get, if that was the only thing that made me alcoholic, well then just say no would have wiped out alcoholism, right? Early '8s, Nancy Reagan came out and said just say no.
I would have, and I imagine you would have gone, h no, and just gone on and lived a happy, successful life just saying no. But I've got this other strange part of my relationship with alcohol, and that happens when I'm not drinking it. even by myself if I don't drink for a day, a week, or a month.
I seem to have this mind that is able to paint a picture that makes it okay to take another drink no matter what the pain, humiliation, and suffering was a day, a week, or a month ago. And it never seems to enter into the equation, whether it was my pain and humiliation or your pain and humiliation. I could care less.
But sooner or later, I have this mind that is able to rationalize and justify my walk back to the next drink at all costs. So, I can't drink successfully because of this bizarre physical reaction that I get, but I cannot on my own not drink successfully. I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't.
It's the ult ultimate catch 22 we call alcoholism because I swear to you, if I could do either one of those two things, I would. And I'm going to harp on that physical feature a little bit uh a little bit more because it's the one thing bar none we all have in common because our stories are really really very different on a lot of levels, you know. Uh but Alcoholics Anonymous is a and the reason they're different is because Alcoholics Anonymous is a huge wide cross-section of society really.
I mean we're all here. Everybody is here. Every different race, creed, color, religion, every background, good family, bad family, we're all here.
In fact, Alcoholics Anonymous is the only place where the bank president, the bank teller, and the bank robber are all right here in the same room, right? And they're all telling a very different story about what just happened, right? So, if you've been told, just go to meetings until you hear your story, you might be sitting here a long time unless you know what to listen for.
So, our stories are different based upon our backgrounds, but our stories are different because of the way we drink. Also, we drink differently than each other. An example of that is, let's say we wheeled in this giant cart full of all the kinds of booze we all love.
Everything is on that cart. If you're a top shelf drinker, we got it. Remy Martin, Kasier, we got it.
If we're bottom shelf drinker, we got that, too. Mad Dog 2020. It's all right there.
And we wheel it right in here, and we all get a good four or five stiff drinks. No umbrellas, no mixers, good four or five stiff drinks. We would all be acting very, very differently.
Right. Over in this corner, we'd have the good time crowd. Haha.
Talk talk. Fun fun. Haha.
Talk talk. Talk. Add a little methy.
Talk a little faster. Talk. Right.
Right. Over in this corner, we'd have the sobbing crowd. Right.
Over in this corner, this corner, we'd have the fighting crowd. Right. Always fighting when they get a few drinks in here.
Over in this corner, a bunch of us would be naked. Right. I personally would be visiting each corner trying to find a few friends to come over here with me.
Right. So our stories are different. Our sto So our stories are different on that level too because over here in the good time crowd they get a lot of DUIs, right?
Always. Hey, next bar. Hey, we got to head over here.
Who's who's getting the booze for the after hours party? Let's go to Charlie. Let's go.
Woo. Right. So they're always out there driving.
Get a lot of DUIs. Over in the sobbing corner. No DUIs.
They don't even leave the damn house. Right. The worst thing they do is late night drunk dialing, right?
Harass your friends in Europe, right? Or god forbid these days, drunk Facebooking, right? That's the worst they do, right?
Over here in the fighting corner, their stories always have, you know, jail, parole, probation officers, parole officers, right? Court dates, right? It's all in that corner.
Over here, a bunch of children show up by surprise. Like, whoa. Right.
So, our stories are different on that level, too. But there's one thing bar none, no matter what corner we're in, there's one thing we would all be doing. We'd all be back at that cart for another drink.
That's the one thing bar none we all have in common. Now, I set this relationship up with alcohol that I just described to you right from the get-go. I started drinking at 11.
I know it's very late these days in Alcoholics Anonymous. By, you know, by today's standards, by the time you're 12, you're on your third treatment center for God's sake. It's really true.
And I'm just I'm just a drunk and and and a and a pot dealer my whole teenage years. But I'm 14. We lived in Seattle and I'm 14.
And my vocabulary is whoa. Wow. Right.
That's my vocabulary. And my parents are like losing it. They're really good people, really good, solid people.
And they see this happening to their son. They don't understand it. They they don't understand that it's alcoholism.
They blame my problems on people, place, and things. They try to get me away from the kids I'm hanging out with. They try to get me out of the public school system thinking that's going to fix it.
But I'm not, you know, my problems are not based upon people, place, and things. My problems are based upon my physical and mental relationship to alcohol. You see, if you change the people, place, and things in somebody's life like mine, all that happens is that I'm loaded with different people in different places ruining different things.
That's all that happens. By the time I was about uh 18, 17, almost 18, I barely scraped out of the public school system there in Seattle. And my parents decided that Seattle was a problem.
and get him out of Seattle. And uh so they sent me 300 miles away to Washington State University. I spent three years at that university on my parents' money.
And in that three years, I got almost 10 credits. Uh uh my I think my GPA matched my blood alcohol content about a 0.25. By the time I was 22, this little story I'm about to tell you will let you know exactly where I stood with my family.
Now, my father was Swedish, my mother is Icelandic, therefore I look like a polar bear. And I don't know whether this custom I'm about to tell you about is Scandinavian or whether it's Lutheran. I don't know.
But at Christmas time, my parents would wouldn't just send out Christmas cards to their friends and relatives. My parents would send out this big long Christmas letter that said everything the family had been doing that year. And when I was about 22, I got a hold of one of these letters been sent out the previous Christmas.
And as I read it, it let me know exactly where I stood with my family. Now, the first paragraph talked about what my parents had been doing that year. Another impressive year, I'm sure.
The next paragraph talked about what the Morris children had been doing that year. And that paragraph went something like this. Our oldest daughter Christina just graduated from Cornell University in Ithaca, New York with a master's degree in human resources.
She's now working for a large pharmaceutical company in the Midwest. She traveled to Europe this summer. She saw this, she saw that.
Her hobbies are this, this, and this. She's a very happy young woman. We are very proud of her.
Our oldest son, Eric, just graduated from Western Washington State University with a degree in marketing. He's now working for a large advertising firm here in downtown Seattle. He loves the golf.
He loves to travel. He's engaged to be married to this wonderful woman named Mary Lou who works for a very small company here in Seattle named Microsoft. It was small at one time and they love to golf together.
They love to travel travel together. He's a very happy young man. We are very proud of him.
Our youngest son Carl just turned 22. They were actually being kind. Long story short, uh, a really bad night happened.
It's really just a It would take till breakfast to describe everything, but a really a drug dealer went really, really badly. And so I joined the Navy. That's what happened.
On my way in the Navy, this should concern you. On my way into the Navy, I passed a potential test. It's called the ASVAP test.
It qualified me to become a nuclear engineer. That should concern you that the United States Navy would have any type of system in place that would allow me near anything nuclear. However, they made me take another test when I showed up at that base for boot camp and I couldn't pass that test.
That test is called a year analysis test is what it's called. So anyway, I they kept me in. I was supposed to get kicked out.
They kept me in anyway. And two years later, I'm a lower rank than when I first came in. Uh and after a big barrage of ugly craziness, they they had put me on an abuse, right?
I was now under orders to show up at Sick Bay every single morning. Uh, and they put this little white pill on my tongue and make me sit there for a half an hour to make sure it actually ingested in my system. And I got to tell you, people had been taking alcohol away from me uh throughout my life every once in a while.
But this time on that antabuse, it was really I was started to experience the most cunning, baffling and powerful side of this thing we call alcoholism. And that is I had no booze at all. No drugs in me at all.
And I was literally going insane. I remember counting the days on that ant abuse just been four days. I'm on antabuse now.
It's been 6 days and I'm on an abuse now. Now it's been 8 days, 6 hours, and 15 minutes, and I'm on an abuse. And I started to look around that ship, the other men, they're talking behind my back, all 300 of them.
Have you ever felt that way in AA? The only difference is that in AA, we are talking behind your back. Only with love and tolerance in Brentwood, I'm sure.
10th day, I just snapped. I went awall from my ship and I locked myself in this little hotel room in downtown San Diego, the Plaza Hotel. It's on Fourth and Broadway.
Uh, this would have been 1986. It was $13 a night at the Plaza in 1986. I checked about a year and a half ago.
They've upgraded that area. It's now $19 a night. But I remember sitting on the edge of this bed and looking at this bottle of vodka and a shot glass sitting on the edge of the on the uh in this rickety little end table.
And I remember that the Navy doctors had given me a very stern warning about drinking on top of an abuse. They told me, "Son, you need to understand that if you drink on top of this anabuse, you're going to get one of two reactions. One reaction is you're going to get violently ill.
The other reaction is you might die." Remember looking at the bottle, I thought, "Well, I wonder which reaction I'm going to get." took one shot and nothing happened. Authority had lied me again as far as I was concerned. I waited about two minutes just to make sure and I took another shot.
All of a sudden, I felt tingly in the face. So, I looked in this cracked little mirror in this hotel room and I was bright red, blotchy, and purple in places. H took another shot.
All of a sudden, I could feel my heart going boom boom boom. Looked at my shirt. I was drenched in sweating.
And all of a sudden, I was like hyperventilating. We're doing all right so far. See, the the message here is if you're going to drink on top of anes, you cannot do it with half measures.
You've got to hang in there. So, I took another shot and up it came. My late sponsor Eddie Cochran called this next thing that happened me projectile regurgitation.
This is a new level of puking I was unfamiliar with, right? We all know normal puking, you get that little warning, right? You try to get to a bathroom or roll down the window, which whatever you got to do, but you get that little warning.
But here on the Annabuse, no warning. Sort of this Linda Blair spray across the room. Thank god.
Thank god the Plaza Hotel is the type of hotel room where the toilet is in the same room with the bed. It's a design feature, I believe. Maybe to make convicts feel more at home upon release.
I'm not really sure. Anyway, I drank on top of antibuse for the last seven months of my drinking. The only words to describe this are desperation drinking.
There's no other way to describe it. Uh I was uh one more night I was in handcuffs and angry people around and neck muscles aren't working well. And this time they threw me into a military treatment center.
Wasn't my choice. Really wouldn't have mattered. I was in handcuffs.
You go where they sit, right? And I wind up in this military treatment center. I've never been had never been in treatment.
I don't remember discussing treatment. I uh I I know that my drinking was getting a little about bit out of hand on this ant abuse, you know, especially when the police officers look at you and go, "Do we need to call an ambulance?" They go, "No, no, no. It's just the ant abuse." They go, "You look like you're about ready to explode." As far as treatment centers go, this is one of the best in the world for one reason and one reason only.
They did not come start to believe that they had a new new flavor of the month treatment for alcoholism. They did what? They gave us medical attention.
They did as good a therapy as you can do, but they sent us to meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous every single night. And I've talked to the staff there afterwards and they would pray that maybe we would hear something. And they understood that.
They understood that the only hope is to separate us from alcohol, keep us safe, send us to meetings of alcoholics anonymous, hope we would hear something. You go down to San Diego, they're still still doing the same thing. Military sits all in the back.
You guys just carry on your meetings and let us watch. And uh I'm very grateful that you guys you guys did that. That you didn't question, are you really alcoholic?
You know, maybe you don't belong here. You just let us sit there and you carried on with your meetings no matter what. And I got to tell you, I'm not somebody I'm like my friend Steve.
I identified right off the bat. You know, he he said when he first got here, this was his tribe. It's really true.
I I was blown away the very first night when when I heard you guys talking about two things. the way you described your drinking and then even more importantly you describing the way you felt when you were not drinking. I had never been able to put any words to that.
I had felt that my whole life. I wanted to scream it. I mean I agreed with when authority figures were yelling at me about my drinking.
I wanted to verbalize something and you know but I and the way I felt it I I agree with you. I I don't like the price I'm paying either. I'm not happy the car is on fire.
I'm with you. Right. But if I would have known how to say it, I would have said, "But if you knew how I felt when I wasn't drinking, you wouldn't be asking me why I drink." And you guys were talking about this like it was yesterday's news.
Like you've known this for a long time, right? And it absolutely blew me away. So the very first I identified right off the bat, but there was something else that just really was confusing me.
People I don't hear it very often anymore, but back in the 80s you heard it all the time. People were my drug of choice is and somebody well my drug of choice. First night I heard that I'm sitting in the back going oh for Christ's sake was I supposed to be choosing out there?
Do they want me to choose now? What are they talking about drug of choice? So I went back to the treatment center the next morning and I asked the counselor who had been assigned to us.
I go Mary last night in the meeting they're talking about something called a drug of choice. What on earth do they mean by that? And she said Carl let's play a game.
Now that worried me because she was saying pay attention is what she was trying to say. So I kind of okay because they had me on those anti-seizure detox meds that are hard to see things. You're kind of twitching a bit.
So I tried to stabilize and what and she said, "Imagine this, Carl. Imagine I came into this room and I had a tray and on that tray I had a bottle of Jack Daniels, an ounce of cocaine, and an ounce of Taiicks. Which one would you take?" I started to drool immediately.
Oh my god, I take them all. And she started to snap her fingers. Settle down, Carl.
Settle down. You can't have them all. Play the game.
You can only have one. I thought for a second, well, I guess if I can only have one, Mary, I guess I take the ounce of cocaine. She said, "Ah, maybe cocaine is your drug of choice.
Do you understand now?" And I said, "No, no." She said, "What's the problem?" I said, "Well, Mary, the only reason I take the ounce of cocaine over the other two is if I take that ounce of cocaine, I get the hell out of this place and I'd buy I'd sell two eightballs. Now, I'd have enough money for a quarter pound of Taiix and a case of Jack Daniels. That's what I would do." So what was happening there is that I was learning something about Alcoholics Anonymous that was really really important and I didn't even know I was learning it.
It was only years later that I look back and go, "Wow, I was never confused about that ever since I got here because of that." And that is sobbriety date. First of all, if you're new or fairly new, it's really important to have a sobriety date and it needs to be written in stone. It's the thing that nobody can question or take away from us.
And nobody can question when it is, especially us in the middle of the night. Really important. And there's only one sobriety date.
I imagine I know there's lots of people that work with new people and maybe you run across this scenario once in a while. I I do every once in a while out in Coina. Not very often, but you know, see some guy, hey, good to see you.
How long do you got? Every once in a while, not very often, but every once in a while, like, uh, my drinking sobriety date is January 4th. My pot clean date is May 3rd.
Well, I blew my methamphetamine date last night. I was in Walmart all night long. No, one sobriety date.
Funniest thing I ever heard about sobriety date. Same scenario. I saw this guy around my home group for a walk.
He said, "Hey, good to see you. How long do you got?" And he said, "Well, I had 90 days, but I drank last night, so now I have 89 days. I had to think about that one for a second.
I think that kind of falls in the same category of being down in Mexico looking at the tequila wondering would that affect my US sobriety date? Yes, soy dates are international. Just a little information for the new guy.
So anyway, after 45 days get I get let out of this treatment center and uh the only thing I knew what to do is go to meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. And uh I got led out on a Friday afternoon and I was at the 6:00 gong show meeting in Pacific Beach and I'm sitting the back of this big meeting and the truth about my life is I was 45 days without a drink. I had a lot of information.
I was physically feeling better than I had felt since I've been a young teenager. But there had been no spiritual awakening, spiritual experience or even a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism. And what was even more dangerous than that is I did not know I needed one.
One guy that night operated in his primary purpose. Uh there was lots of men that were operating on their primary purpose that night. But this guy was scouring the back rows that night before the meeting.
He came and said, "Hey, never seen you here before. What are you doing?" I didn't think quick enough to lie to him cuz I promise you if I would have thought for one more second, I would have lied to him. But I accidentally told him the truth.
I said, "Uh, I don't know. I just got out of a Navy treatment center this afternoon. I don't know what I'm doing." This guy's eyes went banging.
Big smile went across his face at the break. He's like fighting his friends off. He's mine.
He's mine. Mine. Mine.
Mine. I didn't know you mark your newcomers. is like felt like he was peeing on me for God's sake.
But there was something else going on in this guy's life that particular night that made him especially glad to meet me. This guy's girlfriend had left him the night before for one of his friends in his home group. So he was wondering what he was going to do with his weekend.
Homicide, suicide, get loaded or grab this newcomer. He's like all over me all weekend. We went to like 18 meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous.
And this guy was insane over this woman. flat out insane. In between this barrage of meetings we went to, he'd throw me in the passenger side of his car.
He'd start driving and he'd start yelling. He wouldn't even look at the road. He had like one of those AA radar cars that just made it to the next meeting, I guess.
But he'd be driving and he'd be yelling, "You got to go to meet me. You got to read book. You got to get a sponsor.
Damn her. Got to go to meetings. You got to read the book.
Damn her." And I'm like, "Jesus." Now, I didn't know it. I didn't know it, but I was getting a very early introduction to your typical AA relationship breakup is what I was getting. But I'm so very glad that that guy that night in his pain were the guy in Alcoholics Anonymous who had done the work of Alcoholics Anonymous had taken the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and therefore he understood that the solution to his pain was out of self.
Out of self. Out of self. I am so glad that that guy that night was not at home underneath his covers whining into his sponsor's answer machine.
Sponsor, where are you? Fix me. Give me a golden answer.
Right. I'm so glad he was out dragging my sorry butt around. By going to so meetings so many meetings with this guy in the same area of town that weekend, I learned something really valuable about what how we go to meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous, especially when we're new.
See, I saw other people that were going to multiple meetings over that weekend. I didn't see anybody else doing 18 meetings, just me and that guy. But I saw two I saw other people that seem to be at two or three meetings over that weekend.
And what I learned about how we go to meetings of alcoholics anonymous, especially when we're new, I'm going to correlate it to a football game. Now, a football team is out there on the field for one reason and one reason only, to win the game. And how do they win that game?
They huddle up, they make a plan, and they do one play. Then they huddle up again. They make another plan and they do one play.
That's exactly what we do here in Alcoholics Anonymous. And the game around here is one day without a drink, you're a big winner. And how do we do that one day?
We run in here and we huddle up and go. Remember, we're bodily, mentally different from our fellows, right? We go out there and we try a little of this.
We try a little of that. We run right back in here and we huddle up. After that weekend, I got back to my ship and the one other sober member of Alcoholics Anony was waiting for me.
His name was Bob W. He became my first sponsor even before I asked him to be my sponsor. He could have cared less whether I wanted him to be his sponsor or not.
He understood that he was going to work with me so he could stay sober. I was gonna have to like say, "No, I don't want you." He looked at me like I was gold being delivered to him on a silver platter, right? And it was kind of a captive audience.
I was going to have to jump overboard to get away from him, right? And I love the fact that the one other sober guy on my ship was an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm so glad that the one other sober guy on my ship wasn't somebody who hadn't been to a meeting in nine months, you know, didn't have a sponsor, knew nothing about the big book, right?
This guy was right in the middle of Alcoholics Anonymous. So therefore, he was living his life in a way where he was able to do an amazing thing. Stick his hand out and say, "Come do what I'm doing." And by doing that, he was effectively able to help save my life.
Just simply by saying, "Come and do what I'm doing." Who else on this planet, what level of education, what level of of appointment by whatever government, what level of of position of power, amount of money allows anybody in our society to reach out to the dying and say, "Come do what I'm doing and effectively help save their life." Only us. Only us. It's an incredible gift.
And he understood that he had that. After two years sober, I got an honorable discharge out of the Navy. That was a result of an apparently merciful God, the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and a person that lost half my file.
That's how that happened. One of the amends that I was unable to make while I was still in the Navy was that my parents had paid for that bachelor's degree. I didn't have one.
I had two choices. I either had to go get what they had paid for on my own money or I had to pay them back every single nickel they had wasted on that. I know that's bad news for some of you young guys, but that's what what what my choices were.
And that's how I wound up in the LA area. I I chose a school in Coina and I pulled in I remember I was still push starting the same little Volkswagen that I got sober with and I pulled into the parking lot of the 502 club in Coina. It's flat.
That's bad news when you're push starting your car. You're always looking for a little bit of an incline. And I met the man that became my next sponsor for the next 10 years of my sobriety.
And that man's name was Eddie Cochran. Literally one of the pioneers of Southern California Alcoholics Anonymous. He literally taught me what it means to be a man in this world and a man in Alcoholics Anonymous.
He was just a brilliant, brilliant man. He literally loved me until I could learn how to love you guys. And he did it in a way that I didn't even know he was doing it.
First thing he told me what I needed to do was put new guys in my car. Now, I kind of objected, but then I realized he was 10 years sober when I was born. And I thought, "Okay, I'll give it a shot." Cuz his sobriety day was December 2nd, 1951, right?
So 10 years sober when I was born. And he told me to put new guys in my car. My life would get better.
I was very concerned about my life. I need to get a life together. I'm two years sober.
I'm fresh out of the Navy. I'm going to be going to school. I got to get a life.
I've heard I've heard people talk about having a life in AA. I need to get one of those. And I was very concerned about that.
And he told me, "Put new guys in your car. Your life will get better." I didn't see how that would happen. But the very first night I followed his direction.
It happened. My life got better. The very first night the new guys could push start my car.
He didn't say how much better. He just said better. But the other thing that really really hit me between the eyes was when I tried to explain to him, I'm going to be going to school.
I'm going to be working. I'm I I don't have time for a lot of meetings. I'm I'm got I got to get my life.
And he said, Carl, school and work is what we do in between meetings. And what he was really telling me was one of the biggest secrets that that has kept me here for 28 years. And what he was really telling me is that I need to live in Alcoholics Anonymous and visit the world instead of trying to hash it out there in the world and visiting Alcoholics Anonymous when convenient.
It literally has been the way I've lived my life for the last 28 years. The life that I found in between meetings here in Alcoholics Anonymous is nothing like I thought it was going to be. Everything that every corner and and and turn my life has taken, it has not been my decision.
I have absolutely found a life that really means something to me these days. One of the biggest things that happened to me in 17 years sober, I got married. We had two beautiful kids.
The marriage did not work out. I know you've never heard of that in Alcoholics Anonymous. But you know what?
We decided we both love these kids with all our heart and we had to figure out a way to be good co-parents. So, we have actually figured out how to do that. And she's a very good mother.
She really, really is. If I would have, she just did. She's a very good mother.
And I have found a level of love for another human being that has blown me away with my two kids. They're eight years old and 10 years old right now. If you're a Facebook friend of mine, you're probably sick of seeing the pictures that I post constantly of them.
But I I literally have met who I would die for. It's like the You even wrote a song like that, didn't you? With your son.
Literally, I met who I would die for. I've never felt that way. I know that when I was in the Navy, I'd raised my hand and said I would do that.
I was hoping it was not going to come to that, right? But here with my kids, literally, I would, you know, Stephen Denny went and like gave me the wrong direction tonight. But if we're out at Starbucks later tonight and and uh you know, some some guy comes in wielding a gun and says, "When are you guys going to go?" I go, "Have you met my friends Denny and Steve?" Right?
But if it was my kids, I would dive right in front without even a thought. I would dive. I'd never felt that way.
And I love my kids from the bottom of my heart. And I would never trade them for the first drink. Never in a million years would I trade them for the first drink.
But I'm alcoholic. I know what it means to be alcoholic. Although I would never trade them for the first drink.
I would trade them for the second drink like that. So there is nothing more important than me staying in the center of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I believe my time is up.
Thank you for the privilege of sharing with All right. Apparently, this is question and answer for a little little bit. Do we have any questions?
Really? I just, as Steve said, stomped out alcoholism, huh? How did that go?
The question was, did I make amends to my parents? How did that go? Absolutely.
I actually still am making amends to my parents uh simply in in in Well, actually, you know what? I I just came back from taking my kids up to see my mother. My father passed away when I was 10 years sober.
Let's put it this way. At my father's funeral, he was a pas a Lutheran pastor. He was also military and he had also been a missionary in uh in Borneo, Southeast Asia.
So there was a huge contingent of his his church that he started in Borneo is now 10 churches, a university and a hospital. So a huge contingent of people came from there. Huge contingent military because he was military for 40 years.
And then if you've ever been to a pas a Lutheran pastor's uh funeral, they have this procession of like 50 pastors all in full robes and banners. I mean it's really something. and they told the family only one person gets to talk.
My family voted me in it. It's, you know, I I think that just says it all. It uh and a lot of it had to be with my parents were very excited I was staying sober, but they kind of wanted to see me do something, right?
You know, they wanted to see me do something because that's how they gauge life. They don't gauge life by just not drinking. They think I should have been doing that in the first place.
Right. We're the and it's valuable that we we we gauge life by not drinking and we have to. That's spectacular.
But but we can't expect them to. So So yes. Yes.
Can you talk a little bit about your higher power that you Sure. She she is asking about my perception of my higher power. I think the best way that I can describe that is tell you a little story that I told Jazz on the way out here.
This is the way I perceive my higher power and Alcoholics Anonymous together. I think that in late late 1934, somewhere around October or November of 1934, all of the greatest spiritual leaders that ever came together uh ever were on this planet all decided they had to have a group conscience. I think Abraham led it.
Abraham said, "Hey, Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, Gandhi, hey, we need to talk. We need to talk." They all came together. And Abraham said, "Look at look at all of the very viable pathways to God we have given mankind, but look at those alcoholics and drug addicts down there on planet Earth.
They can't seem to get it. Do you think we really need to give them one more pathway to God specifically designed for them? Let's chat about it." And they started to chitchat and chat and then chat about it.
and Gandhi chimed in and said, "Well, if we are to give them their own specific solution, I believe that part of that solution should be they get to incessantly talk about themselves." So, they go, "Okay, we'll throw that in there." And they took a group conscience and decided indeed we're going to give mankind, the alcoholic, exactly their own specific pathway to God. And they looked down on the planet. They saw this stock speculator and a proctologologist.
Eddie Cochran used to call that odds and ends. and gave us our gift. I see it one and the same.
I view my my view of God is through Alcoholics Anonymous. I feel God when I'm talking to other alcoholics. I don't necessarily feel it when I'm talking to other people.
However, I do have to say in the last 10 years, I see God in my child's eyes. But when when for me to feel whatever all poets and and uh mankind has written about all the time about God, I experience it with you people. That's the that's the place where I hear the music of life.
That's the best way I can describe it. Yes. Your kids are eight and 10.
Uh they have sat in the back with their iPads at least 12 times and they don't listen. They do. Listen, they were just down in Newport uh just recently and uh one of the things that my son always waits to hear when he he's in the room, I always say, "My sobriety date is January 21st, 1987." And then he perks up and he go and I say, "When's your birthday, Ryan?" And he goes, "January 21st, 2007." He was born on my 20th AA birthday.
So they and they sit in the I do some workshops in Coina and sometimes on days that I have them I have them sit in there. Now I temper my talk a little bit. I don't go heavy into drug dealing and stuff like that if they're in the room but uh they know allergy of the body, obsession of the mind.
They do. They know exactly what that means. That's my I don't think I I wouldn't give anybody else advice to do that.
I just do that. Yes. What gave me that idea?
I don't usually talk about that in aa repeat. Is that okay? She It so happens that my one of the businesses that I run uh is is a group of recovery houses in Coina.
And all right, I was I was working for General Electric and I was uh interviewing with Microsoft using my family contacts. I was on my third level of interviews with Microsoft in 1993. That means I was in.
And I was obsessed with a redhead. Just obsessed with her. And she wanted to do that.
She wanted to open up a women's recovery house. And she said, "If you really love me, you'll bankrupt yourself." And and do this for me. And I said, "Oh, yes, honey.
You're right." And so I just financed it for her to run it and it's grown and grown. But she took off about 6 months into it with another man. And I still remember driving away and I her red hair flowing and there's another man in the seat and she's giving me the finger and I happened to I was late for work that day because we'd been arguing and uh I remember standing on the front doorsteps of what is now my office and I uh I remember going oh my god and there was like 40 people that had all gathered around.
Okay, Slick, what are you going to do now? And I remember vividly I reached for the telephone and I called my boss at General Electric and I said, "My life has taken a drastic turn. I'm not going to be in into work today." He goes, "Oh, what's happened?
Are you sick?" I go, "No, no, no." And I understand that I probably will never get another reference in this industry again. And but I'm not going to be in. He goes, "Carl, I love you.
Whatever you're doing, congratulations." And I hung up and I called up my my sister-in-law who'd been pushing to get me that job at Microsoft. And I said, "Mary Lou, I'm really sorry and this is embarrassing, but I'm not going to go to that third third interview. This my life has taken a drastic turn.
It's 22 years ago, right? It just it's what I told you in the beginning. It the fact that I'm alcoholic is what has driven my bus.
Everything that I thought I wanted to do and what I thought I should be doing has completely turned on a dime. And I love it. Except when I look at what the stock options were for a entrylevel position in 1993, I did the math.
It's like eight figures. But hey, you know, but you know what? I I pro, you know, this is the way I look at it.
I would have had that eight figures and I would have been able to afford very expensive treatment because I'm the kind of guy that has to stay in the center of Alcoholics Anonymous, not in the corporate world visiting here. I'm not saying that's wrong for anybody. I'm just saying I'm not that type.
I got to stay right in the center of Alcoholics Anonymous and Right. So, and I've been blessed in other areas in that area. Have your character defects away?
And if they haven't, how fast do you catch? Have my character defects. Have you met anybody that they have gone away?
So why do you think they've gone away from me? It depends on what area we're talking about and how subtle they are and what and how much I'm wrapped up in that situation. Fear.
Fear. Again, depends on what situation. Fear of economic insecurity has left me.
Fear of red heads with green eyes. Uhuh. Who that is the chief activator for for a lot of stuff in my life.
It really is. And it always comes down to how much attention am I paying to the new guys that I'm working with. That's really my I don't have any other solution in life other than that.
For anything, any problem. It always has boiled down to work with somebody new and it seems like that particular situation irons itself out and in hindsight I'm able to go, "Wow, that was amazing how that worked out. Glad I was busy over here." Right?
When I focus in on my problems, it feels like I'm trying to hold dry sand and I can't close my fingers and it's just Yes. You mentioned that your taught you how to be a man. What was your most valuable lesson?
Pay my bills. Oh, he said that my my second sponsor, Eddie Cochran, taught me how to be a man in Alcoholics Anonymous. And she said, "What does that kind of entail?" And one of the biggest things was pay my bills.
That was such a huge thing for me. I used to always think, you know, uh, you know, when I get wealthy, then I'll pay it all off. And instead, I had to make the minimum payments again.
And especially when at 7 years sober, when that redhead bankrupted me again, which then turned into a beautiful, amazing thing that had been so rich in my life, but it was get together that last $5 and make that payment. That was one thing. The other thing was is quit trying to be understood and try to understand.
That's how I got the relationship with my father back cuz he was a very very stern Swedish Lutheran pastor that I always shook my fist. You don't understand me. And I had to turn those tables completely around and say, "How can I understand you?
Tell me about your life." And I would sit for hours on the beaches of Port Viarda because he he and my mom had a house down there for like four months every year and I would go down there a lot in the 90s and uh and I'd sit on the beach and and just listen to him talk and that that's learning how to listen. Um now with my kids it's leading by example rather rather than shouting. It's a big big thing is leading by example.
Have you ever sponsored? I am not completely aware. Oh, have I ever sponsored a non-theist?
And how did I take them through the steps if I had? And I have am not aware unless somebody because I've sponsored pro I would say there's some 400 people that have would refer to me as sponsored not all are sober nor do I know them to be sober but over the years you know they've said it and then they've gone and said it and gone and said it and gone I've got a really good tight little group of guys uh that are that I work with now but over the years and I'm not aware of any one of them being honest with me about that as we went through I know that there have been some that have struggled and said, "I'm waiting to see some proof." Which again just is sort of a lightweight agnostic, right? But never somebody who absolutely was able to give solid answers as to why they are this they don't believe and this is why they don't believe and the these are the things in life that have proven to them to not believe.
And uh I but I believe you can stay sober uh anyway. It's my thought if you work with other people and take all the actions. Yes.
Or were you just waving at somebody? Mickey alcoholism or drinking have anything to do with changing your perception of reality? Absolutely.
I truly believe that I get a drastic change in personality and perception of reality that other people do not get. I literally do I have okay I've got three minutes. This is the best way that I can describe this of what alcohol how alcohol changes my perception of reality that it doesn't for the normal person.
In the year 2000 my mother called me and said hey Carl uh let's go to Iceland and then visit your brother in the south of France. He's spending the summer there with his his wife and kids. Let's go remember Microsoft money.
So we go to Iceland. Spectacular. had actually been back like four or five times since, but that's not the point of the story.
Wonderful AA in Iceland. Go down to the south of France. We're staying with my brother.
Amazing place. And he goes, "One night, hey." One of the nights he goes, "Hey, I am it. It's on me.
I'm buying 13 course French meal. We're going to this French chateau." And they had the nannies watch the kids. And I drove because, you know, they serve a lot of wine at these things.
So, I drive and my my brother and his wife, my mother, we all go to this amazing amazing like thousand-year-old place in the French countryside and we're sitting in this in this courtyard and a string quartet is playing and they start a 13 course French meal. If you've never had a 13 course French meal, what they do is they bring a tiny little bit of food 13 times, right? And with each one of these tiny little bits of food, they bring this embarrassingly small tiny little glass of wine.
And the waiter, the waiter of the mater will tell a little story about the vineyard. Uh the family that owns the vineyard and the history behind the family. It's all very interesting.
So my brother and his wife and we're and they know a good drinking opportunity. When they find one, they're they're trying it. They're asking questions.
Haha, having a good time. And no, we don't like that one, but we'll take two of those. They're having a good time.
Now, I'm already 13 years sober, so I'm trying all the diet cokes of the region. And I keep asking any question about this and the waiter's getting irritated with me. But my mother after just two tiny I mean small tiny little glasses of wine says to the waiter, "No more for me." She says and I go, "Mom, come on.
I'm driving. Have a little more for God's sake." And she goes, "No, no, no. I don't like the way it makes me feel." Now, normally I would just let that go.
But this time, for whatever reason, I went and I'd heard her say that before, but this time it felt different. And I said, "Mom, how does it make you feel?" And she said, "Well, Carl, I feel like I'm having a once in a-lifetime experience. I'm looking at the brilliant colors of the French countryside at sunset.
I'm listening to this string quartet, and it's rattling my bones. And I'm here talking to three of the people I love most in the planet. And if I were to drink a little bit m too much alcohol, the colors start to get blurry and dull.
The music starts to sha sound shallow and off in the distance. And I have a hard time keeping a conversation going with you. Did you get that?
That is fundamentally the opposite relationship to alcohol that I have. Because what she's saying is up and by herself, she sees the colors of life. She hears the music and she can connect with God's other kids.
She drinks little alcohol and it gets dull, boring, and sloppy. Me and by myself, I cannot see the colors of life. I cannot hear the music.
And you're goddamn boring. I get four or five drinks in me and Oh. Look at those colors.
Oh my god. Look at those colors. Oh, the music.
Oh, I'll tell you where that cello was made whether I know or not. I can make up the name of a German village on the spot. And you become very interesting, but not as interesting as me.
That's why I will go to the gates of insanity or death and they won't. Now, what about my brother and his wife? They're a certain type of hard drinker.
Alcohol is important in their life. But they do not get that change. They drink purposely to get kind of sloppy and goofy.
And I asked him about it. What about you? No.
No. We like that feeling of being sloppy and goofy. We need an escape from life.
You're escaping from life. I said, "I'm trying to join life. and you're escaping fundamentally different.
Fundamentally different. That's why I'm convinced that Alcoholics Anonymous is all about me finding being able to see the colors of life, hearing the music, and connecting with God's other kids without a drink. The whole purpose of the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I'm done. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.
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