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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. The end result has been the forced limited earning power of Joe, preo preoccupying most of his time to make ends meet. Furthermore, Joe's remaining free time is spent in his studies towards self-nowledge.

Luckily for Joe, he lives with a very qualified member of Alcoholics Anonymous who has been able to come to his aid and when all other methods have failed. Once again, please excuse Joe knowing that he now has proper guidance. Best regards, Brendan Dailyaly, the number one favorite spons.

So, what can I say? Right. Okay.

Come on in. That'll work. you can you you know so you can show up with as long as you have an excuse letter you can show up uh so I don't know why I felt compelled to share that this morning I just didn't want to miss that is that's just such a treasure to me this letter now it really is and uh um on the second step we won't read a lot of what what it says here but there you know Bill writes in second step that it's, you know, there's uh these things about the prosaic steel girder and that, you know, visual proof is the weakest kind.

I mean, he really goes into it and then he really ends up saying, you know, sometimes we're at odds as to to really tell you why it's better to believe than not to believe. It's a difficult question and and uh um there's a place where they say where when many thousands of men and women uh uh you know can tell you that it's this power of God. It's the most important thing in their life.

You know it presents a powerful reason why one should have faith. And more than all the stuff that it said in we agnostics, that was the biggest thing for me was that I had people in my life and I said this last night that I'm so happy that I got sober when I got sober and with the people that I got sober with because I had these examples in my life of these people who were saying that their life was like this and now it's like this and I believed them and that this reason was that this belief they had in this power greater than themselves. um the my first step sponsor, the first guy that ever took me through this book the way that it's outlined here and it was the facilitator of that very first workshop that I went to uh invited me over to his house a lot and and he eventually ended up becoming my sponsor and I did my first fist up with that guy and and uh but he invited me to his place.

He didn't have a car. He had this little tiny apartment down in Fremont in Seattle and it was a real flop house. I mean, it was there was a lot of, you know, drugs.

I mean, it was just a real cheap cheap place. Had a little studio apartment in there. And then he cut mats for a living, art, these art mats, you know, that people frame art things with.

And and he had a job where he was selling these mats to this frame shop. So, he had this big machine set up in a little studio apartment. I mean, there was his bed, there was this big machine that he would cut these mats out for framed art for different 12-in, you know, all the way up to to big ones.

and he would stack these things up and then he would take them down and sell them to these frame shops and and uh you know I mean he just had this life and he was just beaming all the time and he just told me one day he just said Kenny you know the sunlight of the spirit shines in my life every day since I've been doing this work and I just really wanted what this guy had and he would bring people in off the streets all the time and let people use his place for showers and there was always people crashing. I mean, this guy was uh uh absolutely on fire with this idea of working with others. And he helped hundreds of people.

He doesn't live in the Seattle area anymore, but he's and he's moved and and uh and he actually that little art thing he was working on ended up he kind of parlayed that into a career and he's, you know, very successful artist now and and uh sells his own art and somebody else is making mats for him now. But, >> you know, he had that that deal and that deal, that testimony that was that presented the most powerful reason for me why I should have faith. And it's really about becoming open-minded in step two.

This idea that I can look at step two from this place of knowing that uh that there are these things in my life like I talked to you about with my my parenting and my finances. There's things in my life years sober that I am still agnostic about. you know, agnostic is kind of not knowing.

There's times when I don't really know, is God gonna really step up to the plate here. If I uh um you know, if I come out here to New Mexico to do this retreat, is God going to come with me? Kind of stuff.

You know, that's agnosticism, pure and simple. And uh you know the the the deal one of the best stories that they talk about in here is this idea of of being open-minded to the spiritual life. Like I talked about that guy that taught me about meditation.

I don't discount anything that he says now. I mean I haven't had that experience but who am I to say that uh uh that what he wasn't talking about is real. And I have come to believe that we really do short change ourselves in in the spiritual life.

And uh and the limited thing is is my own closed-mindedness. That's what limits me from going further. And uh um Jim and I talked this morning about that, you know, that that we were talking at breakfast and and Jim was telling me that, you know, he has a life today that he could never have even imagined in his wildest dreams.

No matter how much I, you know, the biggest vision that I could possibly have had, I could never have had the life that I have today. You know, that came to me through open-mindedness and being exposed to to a deeper and deeper level of living the spiritual life. And the the thing that um one of the examples that I've thought of and this has just come to me recently as well is this example of that uh I was homeless as a teenager.

I was homeless again, you know, off and on a couple times as an adult. And uh and I remembered I had this one friend and his mom had fixed up this garage. It was like a detached garage, but his mom had fixed up this garage for him.

And he kind of hung some blankets up and kind of turned it into a bedroom. And it was a really cool place because there was no parents around. You could do whatever you wanted out there in the garage.

And and you know, I used to walk by these houses and I used to look and I'd think, man, would that be something if those people would let me live in that garage? I'd put some blankets up. I'd hang some posters.

man, I could put some heat out there that it'd be great if those people would let me live in that garage. And you know, the thing, the amazing thing about it is is I never saw the house. Isn't that something that just came to me like just a year or two ago?

I was thinking about that. I never saw the house. I never imagined in my, you know, my my greatest wishes was that maybe somebody would let me live in their garage.

That's where my mindset was. I never saw past it. I never like look saw like maybe someday I'd have a house like this.

That maybe God would have a a bigger vision for me than that. That I would just that that it was this limited vision that I have. And we agnostics is so much about that.

So much about our limited vision where the spiritual life is concerned that there uh that we are stuck on all kinds of fixed ideas and superstitions. They use this example where they say that modern men, the men of today are not any more intelligent than our ancestors. They they they you know people have ways of looking at these things.

And I don't know if I entirely agree with that, but they say, hey, they've looked back, you know, uh, you know, hundreds of years or even thousands of years in some cases and found that these people had really extremely smart mathematical minds and astronomical minds and and, you know, they weren't. But what limited those people from making progress was, and this is out of the big book, this description, you know, Bill says that they're a little bit at odds, but here's a few reasons why we think it's better to believe and not to believe. And they said what really fettered these people was these superstitions that they had that you can't do this or you can't do that or this is going to make the gods matter that's going to so they really even though they had these great and wonderful ideas they didn't really weren't really able to put it into uh uh they weren't really able to put it into you know a better spiritual life for themselves because they were stuck and and it stayed that way for a long time and uh you know there's there's these ideas that some of the greatest uh you know movements in mankind and this is outside of the spiritual realm but you know one of the greatest things was fire they said that really changed human beings forever you know the discovery of fire and the control of fire that changed things forever and then one of the big things was the wheel you know one of the really huge things was this industrial revolution and that's what Bill was talking about you know he was his his generation was right in the middle of that thing the invention of airplanes and they use a description here written in 1930 uh38 published in 39 that they use this description of uh uh of you know ask any long shoreman on the street that just means just ask any regular guy uneducated person if you think that they can get to the moon by means of a rocket ship and and and of course they didn't get there for 30 years I think it was 1968 before they actually got to the moon this is 30 years before and they're saying they're saying, "Oh yeah, the long sermon would say absolutely we can.

Absolutely." And this is in, you know, this is in the we agnostics is that, you know, Bill uses that description to show that what what times were like, this industrial revolution that took place. Um, we're currently in another one. They're saying that this current life that you and I are living now is another one of these huge jumps in in in mankind that will change the human race forever.

And it's called the internet. and and uh this is this this huge tool that we're we're kind of a part of watching this. Bill's deal was this industrial revolution and it was typified by this open-mindedness of being away able to throw away something old that doesn't work and accepting something new that does.

And that's the you know and all these are analogies for the spiritual life that we want to be able to throw away stuff in the spiritual life that doesn't work for something that does. And if you get stuck on something that's uh that becomes uh dry or it becomes uh stagnant, then this very thing that works so well for you is now the thing that fetterss you. And and I believe uh and maybe someone will look that up in this in this big book dictionary that but I believe that word fettered that they use in there uh you know it's the it's the ankle bracelets like they'll fetter a guy to a wall you know with a ankle bracelet and the other piece is you know tagged into a piece of cement and that's the word they use.

were fed by superstitions and fixed ideas of all kinds. And sober 17 years, I am fed by superstitions and fixed ideas. And and uh uh my current sponsor, you know, he he told me to like put the big book away for a while.

And he said, you know, you got to be able to blow through that spiritually, like get, you know, get to the other side of what the real meanings are in that stuff and look at this this bigger picture. And it's been a really great experience for me to become open-minded, more open-minded in the spiritual life is better. You know, close-minded in the spiritual life is fettered.

And you know, there's that idea of uh who am I to say there is no God? And and and that bigger picture is is uh who am I to say that you know, my God is is the one and only God or better than your God. And and I I love that.

You know, it's one of those perfect things about what we have here in AA is that I can take somebody through the steps and I do have some deep spiritual convictions and ideas. Uh, but I can take people through the steps all the way and I don't ever share any of that stuff with them. And that's the beautiful thing.

That's how I know that I am anonymous in this process because I will go through and these people will start coming up with this stuff on their own. And it wasn't from me. They just did it through writing inventory, doing the prayer and meditation.

and they start coming up with these beliefs and ideas. Uh one of the very best analogies they give us in we agnostics is they give us this uh analogy of the Wright brothers and and I just love that idea because the you know the the best mathematical minds of the times that these brothers lived at had proved that man could not fly. They'd proven it.

They had, you know, big sheets and here's why and and they could write it all out and they could say, you know, this can't be done. So, the men of science had firm convictions. Can't be done.

No use even wasting your time. And then the men of religion on the other side had looked at this deal pretty carefully about manf flying and they had decided that, you know, God has reserved this right for the birds. You know, human beings shouldn't be doing this stuff.

So they were fedtered by their fixed ideas and the men of science, you know, these brilliant minds were fedtered and they said, "Hey, look at Professor Langley. His flying machine went to the bottom of the Ptoic River and that guy was brilliant and if he can't do it, certainly, you know, our science is right. Man can't fly.

The math is correct." So you had the men of science that said that they couldn't do it, proven it. You had the men of religion saying, "You can't do it. The Bible says so.

It's a proven deal. Can't fly. But somebody forgot to tell these bicycle mechanics out in Kittyhawk.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same thing.

Somebody forgot to tell Kenny that you could have the big house. And you know, you don't have to to be fettered by this idea of somebody will let you live in his garage. And the same thing with Jim.

You know that in my wildest dreams, I couldn't imagine. And I absolutely believe that for me today, uh, I'm probably have just barely scratched the surface. I've probably barely scratched the surface of what really truly is available in the spiritual life.

And that's really that's really the the the jits of this second step is just be open-minded enough to admit that maybe there is something there. uh they go in in the second step they take a pretty big leap here in we agnostics from uh I think it's 46 let me just get a page number here for you from 47 excuse me they they bring us to this deal we call the second step question do I now believe or am I even willing there's that willingness we talked about to believe that there is a power greater than myself. That's the second step question.

We kind of talk to people about this. They give us some of these descriptions. Hey, all you got to do is be willing.

That's all they say is just be willing. They say this is great news for us. Uh and they say before that they say it's been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built.

So just that that cornerstone of willingness is really all you need here. But then they take us up uh a few pages more to page 53. So six pages later they're saying in one hand they say yeah alls you need is willingness and step and then they bring us up six pages later in step 53 and it's something we need to to rectify and they say when we became alcoholics crush crushed by a self-imposed crisis we could not postpone or evade.

We had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or he is nothing. God either is or he isn't. What was our choice to be?

And that's a lot harder terms and hey, all you got to do is be willing, isn't it? Six pages later and it's, you know, uh I warn people. I tell them, you know, this book will back you into a corner where your spiritual beliefs are concerned.

So, you have to start asking yourself, what is it that I believe? you know what is it that I really believe because they come up and they say hey we're in this self-imposed crisis which is step one you know that we've finally come to a place where we cannot any longer postpone or evade the question of God is either everything or he's nothing god either is or he isn't and I looked at this at one time as only one question either is everything or he's nothing I'd kind of back my sponses into the god is everything corner and and I've really come to look at this in a different way because it's not the only choice. There's really four choices there.

God is everything or God is nothing. And if that doesn't work for you, they say you can go to the God is or God isn't deal too. If the God is everything question is too much for you, you can go this other route and just say that God is.

And of course, when we're speaking about God, we're always speaking about your own conception of God. It tells us in here we don't even need to consider another's conception. don't even need to consider it.

And uh and so the God is question is is a question that that can be answered as we're going through these steps. And it's a question that needs to be answered. God is everything or he's nothing.

Uh and you can look at God is everything and it is God is everything that I live and move and have my being in God. That's a a common idea that there is nothing that is not God. that and uh God is everything can mean God is everything to me because without God I am nothing.

You know, I will destroy myself without this power greater than myself. And if any of those ideas are too much, you can just go with just the God is. But any of those answers is enough to really propel you into this idea of making a decision to turn our will in our life over to to God.

I don't uh I don't talk about the 12 and 12 a lot when I do these these these workshops. it'd be kind of another a whole another deal to to go through the 12 and 12. Uh, but I've been attracted to it more and more the longer I'm sober.

And and one of the things that, you know, Bill was three and a half years sober when he said this, when he wrote this, and he was 20 years sober when he wrote the the 12 and 12, and he had some new experiences. And one of the experiences that he shares with us in step two in the 12 and 12, he shares this idea that he said that uh, and I'm paraphrasing here a little bit, he uses the analogy of the sponsor talking. He says, "Well, maybe we can imagine the sponsor talking to the spons having this conversation." Then there's this little conversation in the 12 and 12.

And and uh he says that that there was a guy who was the vice president and of the American Atheist Association who was one of our members. And it said that and the the bottom line here is what Bill ends up saying is he says this hoop that we have to jump through in step two. He made the hoop kind of God is everything or God is nothing in in the big book in the 12 and 12.

He said 20 uh at 20 years sober. He said you know this hoop that we have to jump through in step two is bigger than we ever imagined. It's bigger than we ever imagined.

I just love that idea. It's one of the things that I really loved about about about that that that it it isn't a a small little thing that we need to to get through. Um once in a while I'll quote scripture or something, not because I'm endorsing any, just because it's, you know, part of my experience.

And then usually when I do I'm wrong about it and then somebody that actually knows what they're talking about will come up to me afterwards and say and say, "Well, Kenny, that's not exactly what they were talking about then." And and that was one of the the misconceptions I had. There was this idea that it was harder for a person to get to heaven than it was to go through the eye of a of a needle. And and you know, that was kind of this old conception.

And now Bill's talking about this hoop is bigger than we ever imagined that we can jump through in step two. The only thing really requires is willingness. And then of course somebody set me straight on that and they said, "Well, that's not really what it says.

what it says is harder for a rich man to get through an eye of a needle than it is uh than it is to um than it is to gain access to heaven. So, it's it's uh and the idea there is the needle was like the you know in the towns those days they would build these gates around these cities and then they would have a needle and the needle once the gate was closed you'd have to go through the needle at night and the needle meant you had to leave all your stuff behind. you have to leave your camel and all your crap behind.

Well, rich guys didn't want to do that. It's harder for them. And that's the idea in the spiritual life.

It was just it's a spiritual axiom that, you know, if I'm going to go through this, I got to leave everything behind. Everything that I think I know about God, these steps, uh uh the disease of alcoholism, I have to leave that stuff behind. That's the idea there of that.

It it really isn't a description of that. It's really difficult to get to heaven. It's uh difficult if I want to try to bring all of my stuff with me.

It's going to be a little hard. And that's really what the what the steps are about. The steps are specifically designed to bring us to a place where we can have the spiritual awakening as a result of this.

The the the steps force us to leave behind our resentments and our fear and and to to go back into our past and to uh set all of these things right. So, um, so with that, uh, let's turn to I know we're moving kind of quickly, but I want to do this. Let's turn to, uh, how it works to page 60.

This is the the description of the actor trying to play the director. So they say we got a little belief in God and let's now look at our life you know with this with this belief that we have in this power greater than oursel the actor and the director and the actor and the director in my life even 17 years sober I look at all of these areas where I you know it is the actor playing the director that deal with my daughter is definitely you know an actor who's you know I'm here to play a role that God assigns and uh and the craziest thing about this whole thing and we won't go into all of it but that uh they say on page top of page 61, everybody including himself would be pleased. So that's the insane thing about this is that I'm not only convinced I know what's best for me, but I'm convinced I know what's best for everybody else.

I know what's best for AA. I know what's best for these people at work. I know what's best for everybody in my family.

And it just drives people nuts. It just drives people completely bananas that that I do this. And of course, it says what usually happens, the show doesn't come off very well.

And that's usually one of those things whether you're going through the steps for the first time or you're going through the steps again that will bring you back into a third step and to start writing inventory again is the show's not coming off very well. The the the Kenny show is is like you know going to close on opening night. I mean this deal is going to go down in flames.

and uh and you know that and it's it's that deal of being convinced that I know what's best for somebody else that that is is really behind this. I know what's best for me. I know what's best for everybody else.

If everybody will just be quiet and just kind of go along with my plan here. Uh you know, and it says in your life will be wonderful. Everybody's going to be pleased.

I become convinced of that. So uh we come over on page 63. And we'll talk about the third step a little bit.

When we come back in, we're going to do a little longer meditation. And uh um and we'll do a third step, prayer as a group. And and we'll uh for those of you that want to, and this is only voluntary, and don't feel bad at all, if you don't feel like like praying, you don't feel like uh holding hands.

My friend Mike in Seattle has a has a really great story. He said that he, you know, he was doing a third step. His first third step was with a group and they lit a candle and they turned the lights down.

and they played some soft music and he's holding hands with everybody and he's thinking in his mind he's a new guy thinking he he's thinking I don't know what I got myself into so I don't know if we're getting ready to pray or if we're getting ready to have sex here he says because they had all this mood music and everything so uh but we will we so but if that you know if lighting candles and music and prayer if you're not comfortable with that uh coming back in for the next section you can stand and watch and and do that with your sponsor when the time comes so uh we don't want make this uncomfortable for anybody. That's certainly not what we're trying to do here this weekend. We're going to do this third step and then so we can get that behind us and and and and get to uh talking about steps four and five, the inventory a little bit and move on to amends.

And we're going to spend a good chunk of the time we have here this weekend on 10, 11, and 12. So, uh the I you know, a few ideas about the third step prayer. Are most people here have most people done this third step prayer before?

I think so. With this group, >> we aa group ends with this prayer. Good.

Good. So, that's great. Um the the idea here is that uh and it's an idea that I've really got comfortable with and I like to clarify to people like make a decision to turn our will and our life over to the care of God.

And what does that really mean? It's it seems like a big task and it's one of these these things that are so perfect about the 12th step because I had spiritual experiences or I had spiritual uh I had spiritual experiences that were valid experiences but they were these experiences that kind of ended with that. And here in AA this is where it kind of begins.

you know, these experiences uh um ended with turning my life over to God and and saying a few prayers and then I was gonna, you know, miraculously everything was going to be fine. And and I was I was in really bad shape at one time. There's a they had this big thing called the Harvest Crusade at Memorial Coliseum and and uh and I went down to the Harvest Crusade and and they had this, you know, very famous uh preacher that was there and he was from California and he was doing the whole deal and the stadium was packed and somebody told me about it.

They were handing out stuff on the streets. They said, "Yeah, you ought to come. You ought to come.

You ought to come." Well, I went in there and I went up and I kind of did a third step and and uh in in their fashion and and uh some people talked to me and man, I had a valid experience with that. It was really, you know, a really nice deal. But at the end of the night, Memorial Stadium was empty and I was uh back doing drugs, you know, within a few hours actually of that experience.

And and I and I never followed through or called. They gave me phone numbers and I'm not saying anything was wrong with that. But in aa we have this deal where we make this decision to turn our will in our lives.

It's not the action of that. So what am I really deciding when I do this prayer? The decision is to work steps four through nine.

That is the action of turning my will and my life over to the care of God. That is my experience. My experience is that when I wrote inventory and when I admitted all of these defects of characters and these faults and went through that inventory process in five and came out of that experience in six and seven and asked God to remove those things and made that eightstep list and went out and repaired the damage done in the past in the ninth step that that I felt this presence of God coming in and after five that's the promise we may have had certain spiritual beliefs up to this point but now we begin to have a spiritual experience.

The spiritual experience actually begins after five. It doesn't begin after three. Three is a decision.

And I had an experience in sobriety when these I told you these guys were kind of scouring the halls and I once in a while I'd break down in tears. That was one of them. You know, I was desperate and I was asking this guy how to meditate and I really was just doing everything I could to find an answer.

And I thought, well, maybe if I if I did a third step and I read the third step out of the 12 and 12 and I kind of did the best third step I could and and uh Al the Carlot guy and I sat out there and we read the third step out of the 12 and 12. did a serenity prayer and I felt really elated in like a week later I I I like broke a bunch of furniture and the the deal and I kicked I I I went to a meeting and I had uh lost my key and I couldn't get in and it just sent me through the roof, you know, and I just kicked the door and broke shattered a bunch of stuff and just went totally nuts. And uh and this was like right after, you know, a few days after I'd had this great third step experience and I was talking about this and one of these one of these step guys, you know, brought me to this part of the book and and showed me that, you know, where it says next we launched and well, what did you do after you did the third step?

And it was one of those things that really hooked me into going down and doing this workshop that I thought maybe these guys had a little more something to it. So this third step we'll be doing is just a decision. It's a decision to practice steps four through nine and and uh and then to live in this new way of life in 10, 11, and 12.

And that's the real decision in three. I think I really don't think there's anything more to it than that. I think it really is just kind of this this this commitment to go forward.

And and as we're we do those steps, we are brought into this new way of living. So, I think everybody's probably got a little coffee in them this morning and probably would like a break. So, uh it's uh um it's almost 10 after 10 and uh I will turn the recorder off.

We'll take care of any housekeeping issues and we'll uh um uh and we'll we'll take a break. So, thank you. Okay, welcome back everybody.

We're here getting uh in preparation for our third step. We'll talk for just a couple of minutes uh first and then we will circle up. And I'm glad we've got this circle here.

uh a really a good friend of mine who's a non-alcoholic uh but he's an artist and I've got a couple of his paintings in my house and he's just a really uh you know he's a really spiritual guy a really guy I really admire and his uh mother wrote a book called ceremonial circles and uh and she's passed away now but she was a very popular author and and uh um her name was Sidonia Cahill and uh she wrote a lot of books but she wrote a whole book about just this a whole book couple hundred pages about people circling up all over the world. This is what spiritual people do is they form circles uh and share with each other. So uh I always prefer this you know in a in a group if we can you know even at my home group which we have a couple hundred people at my home group we always try to set up the chairs so that there isn't like uh you know a hierarchy with you know it's just we try to form as big a circle as we can so it's kind of a you know circles with other circles around them and aisles and stuff but we try to kind of use that idea that this that there is a a power in forming the circle.

So we've so we've done that. We've formed a circle. Somebody joked that it was a uh not the circle of love but the oval of love.

So uh the a couple of things that uh um I'll share a little bit about my you know I I I had a couple of different third-step experiences. I had this third-step experience which was very huge and I had a a very great spiritual experience around it but it never amounted to a solution for alcoholism. You know it was just kind of this third step experience and I went after the third step.

We read that uh that piece out of the 12 and 12 and and I I actually was left quite empty afterwards. I had a huge spiritual experience. I mean I just felt like the weight of the world had been lifted off my shoulders.

I remember laying on my bed back in my little apartment and and just, you know, I didn't want to fall asleep because I was just felt so great after doing that. I really felt like something had happened and and then shortly afterward, I was just as crazy as ever. And uh um somebody between the the sessions had asked, you know, about the difference between a spiritual experience and the spiritual awakening.

And I don't think we need to get into too much detail there, but there is a difference between having a spiritual experience and recovery from from alcoholism. You know they they talk in the in the uh um in the end of the the big book uh in the section on the spiritual experience they talk about this you know it was a that was an experience sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism is what they're talking about when they use those terms in the big book spiritual experience and spiritual awakening. You know it says those terms are used many times.

what they're really talking about is uh a personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism. And so what they mean by that is that and I said I wasn't going to get into that very much, but a couple things just occurred to me. But what they really mean by that is that what does a spiritual experience or a spiritual awakening is really more what we're talking about here.

What is a spiritual awakening? What is it? Well, from the outside it looks like uh it looks like a personality change.

That's what it looks like from the outside. And I guarantee you that my personality has changed uh in, you know, in every conceivable manner since I got sober. I'm just a completely, you know, the person that I that came into the program uh doesn't really even exist.

And and quite truthfully, I have to get quiet today and I have to get prayerful today to really remember what it was like to be a drunk. That's how far, you know, to really remember that takes these weekends, you know, and and and some some time in prayer because my my life is so unlike that I've had this huge personality change. They say that the essence of that which means what it feels like on the inside is this you know they say some of our members call it this God consciousness.

It's the awareness of the presence of God. That's what a spiritual awakening feels like is that I am today I'm aware of the presence of God in my life. Like my friend Jeffrey said, you know, the sunlight of the spirit shines on my life every day, he said.

And man, I I really wanted what that guy had. So, uh, the the first time I really started getting into this book, we did this this this third step, we were kind of coming up on this third step in in my group in my workshop that I was doing. And uh, and a couple things happened.

I'll tell you a couple of a couple of funny stories here. And the this there was that guy that was named Patrick. He was one day sober less than I was.

And and Patrick and I were going to go up the mountain and do this third step. But we'd had some really bizarre experiences with the with the workshop. You know, like I said, we were kind of going to the workshop every Tuesday and then after the workshop, we'd kind of deprogram each other and and tell each other, "Yeah, that guy's a nut.

This guy's, you know, trying to impress the chicks." And and these guys, you know, I he talks about spirituality, but I seen him with that newcomer. And you know, I mean, we just really hammered these guys and and but every Tuesday, every Tuesday, we were back at the workshop again, you know, with our with our highlighters and our pens and everything. And uh uh but Patrick had called me.

We were getting up to the third step and Patrick had called me one night. He was at this boarding house. I was back in the back room at the car lot and he called me and and he said, "Kenny, I don't know what's going on, but he said, I had this spiritual experience of some kind." He said, "I was just laying on my bed and all this wind started coming out of my body and and I just felt like I've been purged.

And I wonder if that has to do with these prayers, you know, that we're doing in the workshop and this stuff about the third step and and uh and like I said last night, you know, Patrick was right off the skids. I mean, this guy was was right off the streets and and uh uh so, you know, being one day sober more than him, you know, I had to kind of try to help put him in put this deal into perspective for him. So, I told him, I said, 'Well, let's think about this, Patrick.

You know, what's uh what's going on here? Let's let's kind of break this thing down a little bit because I'm I'm thinking in my mind, Patrick's going nuts and I got to talk him down here. And uh and so I was talking to him a little bit and this was the night, you know, this was a late on a Tuesday night after the workshop and and I said, we finally got done.

I said, "Prick, did you drink the coffee at the workshop?" And he said, "Well, yeah." He said, "I had a couple cups of coffee." And I said, "Well, Patrick, I didn't drink any coffee at the workshop, and I didn't have any such experience." So, obviously, what we've got here is we've got uh we've come across a a group of people who are forming a cult within Alcoholics Anonymous, and these guys are putting drugs in the coffee to try to uh and so, you know, we got to be careful here because we could and and I was, you know, the the the crazy thing about it, and this is really where my mindset was. The crazy thing about it was that uh was that for one, I didn't totally believe that. You know, I was trying to kind of put this into trying to figure out what happened with Patrick and he was was truly kind of freaking out and and uh and so, you know, this idea that maybe somebody had put some drugs in the coffee was the deal.

And still today in aa there was there's those people I told you about that are still very close to me that finished that workshop and are still in my life today and they still tease me about that. They still will see me and say, "Oh, Kenny, watch out about that coffee." you know, they think it's really a big joke around my in in my home group about, you know, Kenny and watch out for the coffee. And because I did, you know, I went back to the workshop and I and I would tell people, I'd say, and that's the the amazing thing about it was actually in my mind there was a part of me that believed that this could be possible.

It could be possible that we were involved with some kind of a cult within Alcoholics Anonymous and that these people were putting drugs in the coffee. And then there was this other deal where they had planned to bring this big guru up from California and we were all going to do this retreat up in the mountains and we would all do our third step together like we're getting ready to prepared here. So I was thinking boy this is trouble and uh and these you know these guys are after my earthly possessions remembering you know not remembering that I'm you know by living by the grace of my sponsor in the back of a car lot.

Uh I wasn't exactly a prime target. So, and and uh uh but you know the thing about that was that I continued to go to that workshop and I would tell people I would say, "Hey, I'd watch out for that coffee there. You know, Patrick here had a hell of an experience on that stuff a couple nights ago and I'd be careful." Uh but they had they said they were going to do this deal.

We were going to go up in the mountains. We'd do this retreat. They were going to do the the you know, they're bringing this guy up from California and he was going to take us all up to the book up to the third step.

and we'd do a third-step prayer together up there. And and then the idea was everybody from the workshop would start writing inventory at this retreat. And uh so Patrick and I, you know, people were offering us rides.

I had just got a car and it was a car that I got from my sponsor. And it was a $100 car and that was that was off a car lot. It was out the door, tax and license included $100.

So you can imagine what kind of a car this was. had b completely bald tires and it had this huge transmission fluid leak so that if I parked it just wrong it would you know all the if I parked it on the hill all the transmission fluid would leak out of the thing I had to be real careful how I parked it and transmission fluid was expensive so I couldn't you know I had to be really try to figure out ways to to catch the transmission fluid and and you know it was really a piece of junk car so Patrick said well my sister and we weren't about to take a ride with any of these nuts up to the because we wanted to be able to get out of there if things kind of took turn for the worse. And and uh and Patrick said, "Well, I got a car." And Patrick at one time had kind of had this car and he was this doping that would go into bars and this was his game.

He'd go into bars and he'd let people use his car for doing drugs. But the thing about his car was that it was up on blocks. It didn't run and everything.

And he'd say, so he'd bring people out. His car was parked behind this tavern. He'd bring people out there and say, "Yeah, come on.

We he used my car." People would be like, "Oh, this car had no tires on you know, and you know, he'd sold everything he possibly could off this car, but the car had been rescued and they'd got some wheels on it and had been over at his sister's house. And he said, "Well, I got a car over my sister's house and I think it probably just needs like a starter or something. So, we went over and we we sized it up and the grass had kind of grown up all around this car and we were thinking, "Oh, yeah.

This is a much better choice than my ride for sure. So, we'll fix this thing up." And we did. We got air in the tires.

We got it back and forth, did all this work on it, and we were going to take his ride up the mountain. And uh uh we the it was up over Snowquali Pass, which is one of the big passes coming out of Seattle. I don't think it's this elevation, but is it like 6,000 feet or something?

7,000 ft. >> Huh? Three.

There you go. Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah. Uh I asked Niles because he's a skier and he's skied all over Washington State. So, it's about 3,000 3,000 ft.

But you're coming from sea level, too. That's something to remember, too. You're coming from sea level straight up 3,000 ft.

So, it's a bit of a climb. Well, his car had this overheating problem. So, we would drive a little bit and we're thinking, "Hey, we're going up to do this third step.

We're going to meet this big guru from California and we're going to go up and and do this deal. We're going to find God, me and you, together, dude. Let's go." And we had this back seat that was filled with these big jugs of water so that we could drive a little ways up the snowcoming pass.

And we had to pull over and let the car cool down and we'd have to add water and then we could drive a little ways. And people from the retreat were headed up and they would see us and they would stop, "Hey, you guys all right?" We'd say, "Oh, yeah, no problem. We're fine.

Gez, what's the deal with all the water in the back seat? Oh, we got a little overheating problem, but we're going to be all right, you know. And and we were, you know, trying to just make sure we had our escape plan and we were going up and we said, we said, Patrick, let's really try this prayer deal.

And I sat with Patrick and the two of us said a prayer in his car together. God, please help us to get up this mountain. we really need to get up to this third step and and we really you know we really want to be done with drinking and using drugs and you know do everything you can to help us here.

And we started up, went a little ways, and then we saw this bus that was broke down on the side of the road and all the people were out of the bus and the hood on the bus was up. And on the side of the bus, it said the Church of God on the side of this bus. And I said to Patrick, I said, Patrick, if he's not getting those guys up this mountain, you know, we're in some serious trouble here.

That's not that that prayer we said, you know, that those guys had a much better chance, I think, than we do. That wasn't just any church there. You know, that is the church of God.

You know, that's the that's the top level as far as I know. So, that was really my experience was and we got up to this retreat. Uh um uh it was a you know, we were crazier than hell.

was a silent retreat for the first day. The first day we we did a couple of sessions and then it was silent until the next morning and that just, you know, was way over the top for me. And I had way too much on my mind and couldn't talk to anybody.

And I just quit smoking a couple days before that. I was, well, I'm going to do this third step. Yeah, it was really a wild deal.

So, I came into that third step that way, but I did a third step in a group just like this. and and I had a a really great experience and a lot of people that were at that retreat are still my good friends today. We and and I followed through, wrote the inventory and and of course uh I'll share a lot more about, you know, how I got from that insanity to this place where I'm here with you folks in New Mexico this weekend uh as we go more through the steps.

But uh you know my I just say that and I tell those stories because you know my uh experience was that I didn't really need to bite this deal off. You know I I was able to looking back on it now I really see that I kind of took the second third step maybe more peace meal than I would have thought at at the time. Of course at the time I was God is everything and I'm committed and doing my third step but really there was a lot of reservations.

You know we weren't going to ride with anybody else. Weren't going to take anybody else's car. we were maybe if it got crazy we were going to leave and maybe there's stuff going on.

I mean I have a a lot of reservations but uh also somebody asked me you know this I wrote this read this letter that I wrote and somebody asked me about the guy that wrote that letter what's going on with him and uh uh and his name is Joe and I just wanted to report to everybody. I didn't follow through with that. But uh he has or not the guy that wrote the that that wrote the letter, but the guy that this guy that brought the letter that had the excuse letter that was coming to my house is Joe K.

And he's uh sober over two years now. It's about two and a half years. And he's working with three or four guys and he's sponsoring people and he's a a huge part of our home group and he's just doing amazing, you know, he's just really doing amazing things.

So he did as well finished his inventory and did us the step and and uh you know got a lot of a lot of freedom. So and this was coming from a guy and I'm sure he would be okay with me sharing this is coming from a a guy and he talks about this in his talks a lot how he you know this is coming from a guy this guy this guy that that brought this letter uh you know he was a guy that could not look himself in the mirror. That's part of his story.

He could not look in the mirror when he got sober. And you know, he came to my house before he brought this letter in the first few times we met, he came to my house and he he he told me, he said, "Uh, I hate to tell you this, but you're wasting your time." So, uh, and I told him, well, not actually quite to the contrary, but you know, this you're saving my life here and and I'd really appreciate it if you could keep showing up. And and, uh, um, so, uh, he really believed that he believed for him there was no hope.

And, and this is a guy that was in and out of the program for 10 or 12 years, uh, in and out and in and out and in and out. Absolutely could not stay sober no matter what. and he'd been through a lot of different sponsors and different groups and different things and tried everything available to him but never really had been exposed to this really uh solid step message until then.

So with that um we are going to do a meditation here. This meditation will maybe last about 15 minutes. So we'll just get comfortable.

We'll use some of that meditation techniques if you if you need to that we talked about earlier. Uh this will be a lead meditation. It'll be a little different than the than the the silent meditation.

Uh I think we will go ahead and keep the the tape rolling. And I was I was joking with Dave. We was I was calling him the taper.

And he said, "Well, it's not really a taper anymore because you don't really make tapes. You make these CDs." So now I'm calling him the burner. So Dave the burner.

We hope we've coined a new new phrase here in AA. So Dave the burner. We'll keep the the the the burning going during this.

It'll be a little le meditation. We'll start with a couple minutes of silence and I'll just remind people to relax and and I like to tell people where we're going to go in these meditations. It's helpful.

So, this this meditation is a meditation that uh I call the quiet place. And really what it alls it is is it's just trying to take us in our mind's eye to a place where we've been where we've been felt perfect ease and comfort. could be a place from our past or childhood.

Uh um uh a woman I know, you know, her quiet place is a couch at an old retreat place where she's been going to these AA retreats for years. And and uh some people uh don't have a place where they've ever felt like that. So you can be a place that you imagine a a mountain stream or or uh uh some, you know, in a in a kayak out in the water or some quiet place.

And the object of this this meditation isn't to be perfect. So if your mind wanders and you hear sounds and stuff, just remind yourself, oh yeah, that's those people outside and come back to the meditation when you hear my voice and and uh try to return yourself as much as you can to this idea and we'll go there. I'll remind you, okay, now we're going to go to the quiet place and we're going to go to the quiet place.

We're going to try to find that in our mind's eye. just kind of uh use our uh our mind's eye, our imagination, our our and try to just go within a little bit. And then we're going to bring into the quiet place this idea of the third step.

And they give us that on the bottom of page 62. Uh it says, you know, this is the how and why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God.

We're going to bring some of those so some of those ideas of the third step into the quiet place with us. And so we're going to have this third step idea in the quiet place with us. And then we're going to let this third step uh idea move from our minds down into our hearts in the quiet place.

Then we're going to come out of the quiet place and we're going to come back to the here and now. And we're going to bring this third step idea with us. And then we're going to sit circle up as a group like we've done now.

We'll hold hands and uh um and I'll lead us in the third step prayer. We'll I won't lead us. We're going to recite the third step prayer as a group together.

So that will be our plan. If anytime during this you get uncomfortable, you want to get up and stretch or walk, just remember this is a practice and hopefully it's something that everybody can take with them. You know, people probably a lot of people here have this kind of practice and and if you do, you can you can take this if it's something useful.

If you don't, this is a good practice that you can take with you. I do this one- on-one with all the guys that I sponsor when we're getting ready to do a third step. You know, all it says we thought well before taking this step is the words after this prayer.

Uh, and so I always bring people up to this third step that we took a break here today. At least bring them up to the third step and then I'll usually send them home to kind of consider it. They'll come back the next week and they know all about that.

If you show up, you know, that week, this is what we're going to do. We're going to do some meditation and we're going to do some quiet time. We're going to go to our quiet place.

We're going to do the third step prayer together. And I tell them, bring a pen and paper because we're going to start writing inventory as soon as we're done. So, um, so with that, uh, we will just get get quiet.

I'm going to play a little music here and uh um and I'll try to I may you may hear me get up in the meditation if that happens. It's just because the music is too loud or too quiet and I'll adjust the volume here a little bit. But we'll take just a minute just to process what we've done here.

Uh but not a lot more than that. Well, the reason is if you look at the next few lines in the book after the third step, they tell us that uh they tell us that, you know, this experience that we've had here will have little permanent effect unless at once, you know, it's less at once followed by this strenuous effort to face and be rid of those things that blocked us. And the analogy that I I love to use is the analogy of, you know, the sunlight of the spirit.

I really love that description because if I have if I had these things in my life that are blocking me from the sunlight of the spirit what would happen if those things were removed in my life. You know, that's a powerful idea, isn't it? that if those things that are blocking me from the sunlight of the spirit are removed, which is the idea of the 12 steps, that that that's the purpose of what we're doing here is to remove those things that block us from the sunlight of the spirit, then I will know the presence of God in my life.

And that was an incredibly powerful idea for me. It still is that there are still things in my life that block and separate me from the presence of God. And if those things are removed that I will know God at even a deeper level that I will have, you know, I can again have this experience from where I'm at now that Jim was talking about earlier.

That experience of I could never even imagine, you know, that is possible for me now at 17 years sober just the same as it was then. It's just at a little different level now. Uh this idea of the quiet place, if you if you found a quiet place, that's really great.

Uh I would would caution you a little bit. It's it's one of those things. It's a little personal for me.

Uh and it's not just me. I mean there's spiritual ideas behind this that go back a long ways. But some of these things you kind of want to uh keep to yourself.

And I have shared my quiet place with a few people. I think I've shared it with my wife. I've shared a few people along the way.

There's been a few people that were just genuinely interested and they want to know. And I I don't have really mind. But uh the reason is is it's kind of a sacred thing.

If you if you haven't found a quiet place, you can use this meditation. Somebody gave it to me and now I give it to all of you. It's a uh it's a way to kind of go into meditation and find a quiet place.

And the nicest thing about that is uh uh you know, Don shared his quiet place a lot with us, didn't he? Uh, you know, we talked about that a lot in in the the going to the garden and and you know, I know that when the the uh um the hits the fan, I was looking for another word, but when when the when the hits the fan, I know I know where I'm where I'm going. I know where I do go today when I have things that face me and I need to make a decision in my life.

And and uh Tom I says this and I just love it. You know, Tom says that it's not it's not decision that's difficult. It's indecision.

When I when I'm faced with indecision, I go to my quiet place. That's where I look for for the answers to my life's problems now. And so, it's a really great tool that we can use in sobriety.

This idea of going to our quiet place. If we have time, I'll share another meditation on Sunday morning with everybody that's a similar deal, but takes us even a little further. and and uh and I'll share that with you Sunday.

So um the the idea in in the four step and I've actually to tell you the truth I struggled a little bit with how to prepare for for steps four and five here and I'm not going to give specific instructions on inventory here. You know, I want you to get your specific instructions on inventory from your sponsors because things little nuances and things we you can get caught up in the letter of the law here and it really distracts us from what we want to do as a group for this for this weekend. And so I'm going to purposefully leave some of the finer definitions on writing inventory.

And the reason I'm that's come to me is I think you have a a good array of fine sponsorship here in this group that can show you how to write inventory. And the book is very good at at showing you how to write inventory as well. So I'll share some of my experience with inventory.

We will look at the book a little bit, but the big book really deals with and they they use words like this to to bring us to where we're at now. They've used words like next we launched. And I kind of have to like figure out it's like the launch is and that's the very next word uh after you know there's one paragraph after that uh uh the third step prayer what we just read and then it says next we launch.

So you got one paragraph, then it says launch. And that paragraph before that, you know, when I think about a launch, I think about the 10, nine, eight. You know, these guys are getting ready to go somewhere.

They're not, you know, they don't want to scrub the when once you get down to the countdown, you know, this is next, we launch. So they're like at that place of, okay, one, next, we launch. We're we're going somewhere now.

We don't wait and try to decipher, well, did I get a really, they said sometimes an effect, a very great one, is felt at once. And we we saw that here. You know, I think that several people had a pretty nice experience in that third step, but it's not going to be anything that's a lasting deal.

It says unless we launch, we have to follow this with the strenuous effort. So, I was told when I was to when I we did this inventory, they told us to bring a pen and paper. And I actually started writing my first inventory.

The first thing they told me was to make this long list of all the people in my lives that I had had resentments against, anybody with whom I had been angry. Maybe I wasn't angry with them at that moment because I was feeling pretty good. But had I been angry with these people, they should be on the on the list.

And I followed through with that experience and and uh they asked me to list my fears and they gave me a format for looking at my fears and why I had them and for looking at wasn't self why did self-reliance fail me? And and there's some great examples of of uh of inventory in the book. You know, I there's one here.

I will talk about one resentment that's in the book. We're not going to get caught up too much, but on 6065, there's a beautiful resentment. I just love it.

It's just so juicy. And it's called Mr. Brown.

He's he's using these this three column format. And there's actually four columns to the inventory. They don't show it here because they they tell you that, you know, once we get this much done that they show us, they tell us that we set that aside completely what the other person did or why and look at our report.

And that's why that fourth column isn't shown here because we've set it aside when we write fourth column. But this is just an example of a great resentment for a drunk. I just love this that Bill came up with this.

I wondered if it wasn't a little bit of personal experience. Mr. Brown, he's mad at Mr.

Brown for three different reasons in that second column. His attention to my wife. This is a guy that's got his act together and starting to talk to his wife.

Not only that, but he says, look at the next one. Told my wife of my mistress. And I mean, this is number one on the list.

This guy's paying attention to his wife. And and and by the way, he's you know, I just I just feel compelled to tell you this. I would never treat you I would never treat you that way, right?

I would never treat you this way. And and you just seem like such a great woman to me. And and you know, your husband is actually with so- and so at the office.

you know, I just have to as a friend, I feel compelled to, you know, tells the wife of the mistress. I I would never do that. I would, you know, I I can't believe that he's, you know, doesn't see what a beautiful person you are.

And told my wife my mistress, he's paying attention. And then the best then then to top it all off, Brown may get my job at the office. Right?

So on top all this, he's got this whole deal going on. Then he goes to the office and they're saying, "Hey, did you think did you hear that Brown's up for the big promotion?" you know, right? He's like, "Oh, God." And uh uh they say in there that they say in there a few paragraphs before this example, they say that you can imagine the power that this would have in a person's life who's trying to get sober.

And we all have a Mr. Brown. We all have a Mr.

I had I had a list of 120 Mr. Browns. And and uh you know, I was angry at everybody and everything.

And that's not I mean I don't know if that's a where I'd classify that on examples. I've had people come to me with lists, you know, short doesn't we're not looking at at volume here, but just to get it all down on paper and not to to leave anything out. The paragraph before Mr.

Brown said, "Resentment is the number one offender. It kills more alcoholics than anything else." And that was news to me because I kind of thought maybe alcohol killed more alcoholics than anything else. It's a powerful deal.

This resentment, and I I'm not saying that this was in Bill's life. This resentment in the life of the fictional person that wrote this inventory for the book uh uh will kill you if you're sober and you hang on to something like this. You will not stay sober.

That's the experience of legions of alcoholics. They say that go have gone before us. uh that that this is one of those things we make a decision in the third step.

This is one of the things we have to face and be rid of is these resentments in our life because when deal you know we're we're we're shut off from the sunlight of the spirit which for most normal people is well you know they're shut off from the sunlight of the spirit maybe they're not going to have as happy life as they would if they didn't have that resentment but for alcoholics says these things are poison you know this stuff this the these Mr. Browns uh you know what if we you know if our only hope is in the maintenance and growth of a spiritual experience. This business of resentment they say is infinitely grave that that this stuff actually has the power to kill.

Resentment and it's a it's so we've left the booze behind. It wasn't the booze and the drugs that was doing this to me. It was all these other things.

We got to we got to get down to causes and effects. the the resentments and the fears and the sex conduct in my life are the three big ones that we deal with in early inventory. And it's the ones that they they they looked at and they said, "Yeah, these are the big ones." These were guys that were living this way of life for a while before they ever wrote this book.

And they had uh uh a part of what they did was this uh admission of character defects, this this uh accountability to others. This was a part of what they did back in the early days of AA. They would circle up in groups like this and they would just go around and they would just say, "Well, this is what I have to admit to the group today.

It was a way of life for them." And they really saw that out of all that experience, the things that were really killing them were these resentments and the fears in their life and their sexual conduct. And these were the things that they decided to address in the big book. So, we kind of have this three-part inventory.

this this resentment that we write about where we actually look at where I was to blame. We'll talk about that some more uh this weekend and here in just a minute actually. And I so I wrote all this stuff down.

Of course, you know, uh had a resentment against my mom. It was a really simple one. You know, she ruined my life.

So, it was very, you know, very simple and to the point, you know, okay, that's number one. My mom, she ruined my life. And uh and then I could just kind of go on from there.

And everybody else was kind of, you know, had, you know, varying degrees of the same kind of a thing. But, but, uh, you know, it was all kind of this thing. And, and I kind of heard all this stuff about getting outside yourself.

And I and I I was writing this fourth column, which is where we put, you know, where we set all this other stuff aside and say, "Okay, well, dealing with your mom, where were you to blame? Dealing with this boss, where were you to blame?" Well, you know, I did I did, you know, break into their medical chest and steal all their drugs and and maybe I wasn't the best employee at the company and and uh and you know, I got to look at all this stuff, but you know, somehow when I was when I was really writing that inventory and I got a chance to list all of my fears and I and I honestly can say today, I think it would have been easier for me to make a list of the things that I wasn't afraid of because I started listing my fears and I thought, well, well, I'm afraid I'm not going going to stay sober for sure. I was really afraid of that in early sobriety.

I thought I thought, you know, maybe this is all just going to be for nothing again. So, I'm afraid to stay sober. And then I thought about, oh, I'm afraid I'm afraid to stay sober.

I'm afraid I won't stay sober. I'm afraid to stay sober. I had a girlfriend at the time.

I'd been hanging out at a at a kind of a low bottom AA hall. So, I had a girlfriend. So, so I wrote down I said uh I said I wrote down that that well I'm afraid she's going to leave me.

I'm afraid she's going to leave me. And then the next thing I was afraid she was going to stay. You know what does that mean?

Responsibilities and and uh I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to get a job. I'm afraid about getting a job that I won't be able to do it. that they'll kind of discover that I'm a really, you know, eventually they'll discover that I'm a failure at life and they'll I'm afraid to get a job.

Uh I'm afraid to that I won't be successful and I'm afraid of success. I was paralyzed by fear and the book describes this. They say that that it's that the fabric of our existence is shot through with it.

It's like this evil and corroding thread and we all know like you know you pull the thread and oh gez now the shirt's ruined. you know, it's just one thread, but you know, the fabric of our existence is shot through with this deal, this this evil and corroding thread. And they say, well, after we write this inventory, and they kind of give us this way, they say, well, maybe there's a better way.

This this idea of trusting and and relying on God. And uh um it we we look at this place of this God reliance in the in the fifth step and and uh um we look at our sexual conduct. And I was told there's some questions here uh by coincidence only and it really is that way.

The uh you know sex inventory is on 68 and 69 and they uh they give us a list of questions on 69 in the middle of the page there. Uh you know we reviewed our conduct over the years past. So I was told I could go back as far as I wanted and that I could could uh start at the very beginning with the first time I'd ever had sex or the first relationship I'd ever had and all the way to the forward or I could start now and go backwards, whatever I wanted.

But that they wanted it all. and and uh and I I listed that and and my own experience, you know, was I probably could have listed that on a on a cocktail napkin, but uh but some people have a you know, some people have a a longer list and I've I've I've worked with people that and we'll talk about this a little more in in the 10th and 11th step, but as sponsors in aa uh you know, this causes people a lot of problems and it may may be they would have been better to call this a resent or a relationship inventory than a sex inventory because It's really more about relationships than it is the act of sex. Not that we don't have sex problems.

It says it says in here we all have sex problems. All of us. So, I won't ask for a show of hands, but you know, if there was somebody that that didn't have sex problems, uh, you know, they would be an anomaly because the experience of the people that wrote the book and my experiences that we Oh, Tony doesn't.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And they're really dealing with with relationships here. And and so I wrote all of this stuff out.

But as sponsors, which is where this deal is going, you know, we have to get comfortable with talking to people about sex. And it was it was uncomfortable topic for me. And it was I was so glad that that there was people that I could turn to about the sex problems in my life in sobriety.

And I will also tell you this that I did uh actually go see a sex therapist in in early sobriety. I sat with a lady for a couple years because I had my wires crossed. I mean, I was all over the board with stuff.

and and uh um I want to be careful what I say here, but uh I received some horrible advice on sex in AA as well, you know. So, you got to you do have to be a little a little bit careful of who you're you're dealing with. But as sponsors, we got to get comfortable with with listening to sex inventory with sharing our own experience with whatever it is uh that uh that we get comfortable on this topic.

And I was asked to go through and list all this stuff out. Look at whether it was selfish or not. Uh look at where I was to blame.

Look at these questions. You know, where had I been selfish, dishonest or inconsiderate, who'd been hurt? Make a list of all that.

And I realized in a lot of these relationships, it wasn't just the it wasn't just the the the woman or it wasn't just myself, but maybe it was her kids, maybe it was her parents. I mean, the list just just grew. And uh and I was able to use that information when I got to nine.

And I had all this stuff together. And like I said, I was looking at where I was to blame, where was I selfish, where was I dishonest, where was I inconsiderate. I looked at all of those those things in in the fourth column, like, you know, where what was what was my part in this?

But still, I didn't quite get it. I got into step five, and I was really thinking, you know, these guys in that workshop haven't exactly treated me with a lot of respect. and and uh so I asked the guy that was facilitating that to come hear my fistep.

And when I meant they weren't treating me with respect, there was a lot of times when I knew they were just kind of patronizing me. I'd speak up in the workshop and I'd say I'd say, "Yeah, I got, you know, I got some experience with inventory or something because I'd written inventory and treatment, you know, five years ago." And then they would, "Well, what was your Oh, did you stay sober after that?" you know, they ah god, you know, these guys would make me look make me look foolish in front of, you know, my peers in AA. And so finally, I just kind of I just kind of bit my tongue and I knew better than to open my mouth at the workshop.

And and then and then sometimes they would actually patronize me a little bit. They would say, "Oh, that's good that you have all this this experience with inventory because you can come to the workshop and help to show everybody else how to write inventory when the time comes." And I think, oh, think, you know, because I knew I I knew I didn't know how to write inventory, you know, and and uh so I just kind of so I was just kind of riding on this forep and I was I was literally of the of the opinion that that when when Jeffrey comes down to hear my fistep and he sees how horrible the people in my life have treated me all my life, he's going to be so sorry for the way that he's treated me, he's going to feel so uh, you know, he's going to feel so sorry for all of the hard times that I've had to go. He just doesn't understand all the the rough times I've been through in my life.

And and he's going to see when he comes. Here's his fistep. He'll see.

And and I couldn't have been more wrong. And I, you know, I I I'm I'm grateful that I I picked a guy in five that wasn't afraid to really rub my nose in it a little bit. And he didn't he wasn't uh he wasn't directly disrespectful and he wasn't but he just kept saying, "Well, what was that that you said?" "No, I thought you said you loved your brother." But, you know, those things don't sound like like love to me.

Are you sure that you you sure we're dealing with somebody that you love here? And he just and he kind of, you know, and then I like had my mother like, "My mother ruined my life, Jeffrey. She ruined my life." And I don't see where I'm to blame for that, you know.

Oh, okay. Well, let's just let's just Was it all horrible? He said, and and you know, I had like an awakening that day a little bit.

Was it all horrible? And I thought, well, it wasn't all horrible, Jeffrey, but there was a lot of hor Okay, well, let's just get this in perspective because I really want to know what we're dealing with here. You know, this is somebody you say ruined your life, and I want to just see what's really really going on here.

So, we thought about it and you know, I thought he said, "Well, did you have a roof over your head when I was a kid?" Uh, yeah, we had a roof over Well, who who did who took care of that? My mom was a single mom until I was about eight and my stepdad married my mother and we we lived from from then on with my stepdad. Uh, how old was your mom when you were pregnant?

You know, this is intuitive thought that these sponsors have. How old was your mom, by the way? I thought she might and I and I knew, you know, my mom was 19 when I was born and my mom I have a brother that's 18 months older than I.

Yeah. Single. uh in the 60s with two young kids and and this is the person I was pointing the finger at.

This person that put a roof over my head. Well, was there food on the table? Well, yeah, there was.

But it wasn't always the right kind, you know. I We had I never got the I never got the uh I never got the Captain Crunch and the sugared cereals and stuff, you know. We always had this crappy stuff from the food bank or something.

But, you know, there was always food and I thought about that and and uh uh well, was there a Christmas tree at your house at Christmas time? Yeah. Yeah, we had a Christmas tree.

Was there any presents? Yeah. Well, who do you think took care of that kind of stuff?

Who was it that was doing those things for you guys? And and I really got to look at my mom in a whole, you know, the there there's a uh an idea that the blinders come off in five, you know, that you can't continue if you do a fist, you cannot continue to do a fistep and continue with this tunnel vision. And uh uh uh Jeffrey used to call it the wraparound mirror.

He said, you know, you've got this wraparound mirror. It's time to like reach out and shatter that wraparound mirror. And what the wraparound mirror is means that no matter what direction I look, I can only see how something reflects back on me.

I can't ever see how anything affects anybody else except how it affects on me. And it perfectly described this selfishness, self-centered. And I would never have believed that I was a selfish, self-centered person.

I just never believed that I was an egotistical person. I I really had like dove heavy into this victim role. And uh and you know, the more I think about it, the and uh my mom was a folk singer.

She played guitar and she would sing at coffee shops in the U district in Seattle and and uh and and raise money for us kids. And and uh she had a full-time job on top of that. And uh um we didn't have a TV when I was a kid.

And my mom used to play guitar to us. And I got to thinking about that. You know, my mom used to play guitar to me every night.

I don't ever remember a night when she didn't come into my brother and I's room and sit and play guitar for us and sing folk songs until we fell asleep. That was how she, you know, got us kids to sleep every night. So really what happened for me in five was kind of the blinders came off and I realized that there was problems in my family.

I don't deny that. Uh but you know, I grew up in the presence of great love. That's a very loving thing that she did for us kids.

All of those things. And I know that that that what she wanted in her heart of hearts was to be a a great mom. And then I got to look at my side of the deal.

At 13 years old, my mom got into Alcoholics Anonymous and recovered. And I never heard her amends. Never wanted to.

Never wanted anything to do with her. I completely took the right for her to be a decent mother away from her. I went months and months and months without talking to her.

I would uh you know, I've told you on Friday night, she would drive all the way to Seattle from Vancouver, Washington, about a three-hour drive, and go up and down up and down the the the freeways trying to find me. I was removed from the house about at 13 for my own problems because I was I was, you know, selling drugs in the school and I was burglarizing homes and I was doing all these things. and they removed me from the home and I was a ward of the state and and uh uh and during that time there was a time and that I was uh at a place called Nel Washington which you nobody would know here but it's a little little tiny tiny town way down in the corner of Washington state is all the way up as far as you can get in the other corner of the state and when I was uh incarcerated there at Nel uh Saturday and Sunday were the visiting days and you know I look think back on that now and my I don't ever remember a weekend my mom didn't come visit me and and she drove from Seattle and that's about a four or five hour drive.

She would drive down there and see me and visiting hours on Saturdays. My mom would always be there every I just knew it. You know my Saturday.

Yeah, mom's coming. Uh and then the neat thing about that is my mom would spend the night down there so she could come to visiting on Sunday as well. So uh so you know I was wrong about my mother and then things just kind of started tumbling from there.

I saw how wrong I was about my brother and my sister and my boss and things kind of started falling apart a little bit, you know, and and and uh you know, and I was reminded in that fistep that this isn't therapy that we're doing here, that the idea is that uh and and these were were his words, you know, that your life is broken beyond repair here. We can't fix this. We can't put Humpty Dumpty back together.

You know, it's broken beyond repair. This is about getting a new life in Alcoholics Anonymous. We're going to go out and set right these wrongs that you've done in the past.

We're going to get this new life in Alcoholics Anonymous. That's what this is about. This is about turning this stuff over to God because we can't do anything about it.

This is about asking God to remove these things from your life so that you can live as a free man. And uh and and in that respect, you know, I was really able to uh to go into that step six and seven, you know, humbly. God, you know, I cannot live another day like this.

I didn't want to treat women the way that I did anymore. I didn't want to, you know, harbor those resentments against my family anymore. I didn't want to hold the resentments against the, you know, I had lists of just the stupidest goddamn resentments against these, you know, people at the hall that talked too much and, you know, this guy just just, you know, pitiful stuff and just dozens of them.

Dozens of them. I just, you know, I knew that I could not go on living this way for another day. and I just went into six and seven with with that attitude that I really didn't want to go another day living my life that way.

Um uh this uh this girlfriend that I talked about is is actually the the mother of my daughter who's 15 that lives with me now and and and and my wife I've been with for 10 years. We've been married for eight and my daughter lives with us. But she was there.

She came back to and this is the this is the the thing about this. I did that fistep in the back of that car lot. That's where I was when I did that.

The other thing about that fistep was that before I did this before I did that fistep, I was, you know, Jeffrey was one of those kind of nononsense sponsors and and he said that uh you know I I asked him if he'd hear my fist and he said, "Yeah, I'm a busy guy. You know, I I I do a lot." And I'd seen that I'd been to his apartment. I'd seen what this guy was doing with alcoholics and and I I'd seen that, you know, what he was.

He says, "Well, here's the deal." And he opened up this little book and he circled the date on the calendar and he said, "I'm going to be to down to the car lot. I'll come on this day. We'll we'll go to the little apartment back there and we'll do your fistep." So, I'm going to show up on that day because that's the day that's open on my calendar.

And if you're not ready, I I I won't come back. You'll have to find somebody else. And that night before that fist, I wasn't finished with my inventory.

And I stayed up all night that night writing that inventory. So this this fist up experience that I described to you was on no sleep and it was born of desperation. You know, I really thought about I would go up to the top of the car.

I could see out there's this little AM PM miniart, a little gas station and and I could see out there and I knew that for like six bucks I could go down there and buy a cheap bottle of wine. And and and I was thinking that was an absolute decision on my part before five. I thought I could go down and get that bottle of wine.

I'll drink it real fast and when Jeffree shows up, I'll be so stinking drunk and I'll tell him what I think of him and all his cronies are at the workshop and and uh you know, it just is a miracle to me that that I was spared from some of that kind of stuff. I'd think about that and I'd go down, I'd write that inventory for a while, then I'd come back up and I'd think, "Oh man, I'm I'm going to bag this. I can't finish it.

There's no way I can finish by morning." And and but I did. And and uh uh my daughter's mother had left and then she'd come back. I was in the car lot and I had myself there and then I'd had my daughter's mother there and then she got pregnant.

Uh and then later on I started, you know, they told me you got to give it away to keep it. So I went down and found Allen. He was on a park bench in Pioneer Square and I brought him up to the car lot.

That's when Al said, "Hey, get out you and all your, you know, uh and uh but you know, she'd come back and she could she could see that something had changed in me." I mean, she just walked in and she immediately was like, "Wow, what happened in your fistep?" And and I I didn't even know how to put it into words really. But, uh, you know, for the people that haven't done it or people have done it, you know, it's experience not to be missed. And and I hope you'll all find somebody like that to read inventory to somebody that that uh is truly living a spiritual way of life that is is is kind and loving enough to show you kindness and love when you need it and is not afraid to turn the mirror and say, "Did you see that?

Did you see what you're looking at?" And ask those those kind of those those kinds of questions. And it's just the type of sponsorship that I come from. Uh I I don't come from a type of sponsorship where we just read an inventory to a wall kind of a thing.

and then somebody says, "Well, yeah, I've done all those things, too." Not that that's not a valid experience, because I think it is. In a lot of cases, it it gets by when this other deal is not available. But if you have, like you guys have here, uh you've got this solid uh uh um lineage of sponsorship here available to you, you know, make use of it and and and get into a fist.

and and uh we have a guy that's from Chicago that's kind of back a few generations in our sponsorship lineage and I hate to even use that word because it's really not true for me you know I mean you know my first sponsor was Al he's the guy that saved my life in the car then I used a step sponsor Jeffrey for a while his sponsor was a guy that was sponsored by this California guru but his sponsor is not even in AA anymore he's off doing the Scientology deal and he's doing well but you know he's not in AA anymore uh and uh uh and you know his you know the lineage kind of but there's a guy in in in Chicago and he really believes in the multiple fistep deal and it comes from a uh uh and I asked him really about what the history of this multiple fistep and it really comes from this this psychiatrist that he had studied at one time and this psychiatrist had this belief that the more that we admit these things the less power they have over us and and the more that we see that other people have these same troubles. So take your inventory to more than one person. And the book says that it says we think you know we think about the person or persons whom we're going to take this this intimate and confidential step with.

So you can read your to your sponsor and then you can go to somebody who may be considered a spiritual advisor. Maybe you can go to uh currently I read most of my inventory that I write now I will read to the people that I have sponsored. You know I've sponsored for long enough now.

uh um where I have friends in the program more than me sponsoring them. And this is what the book describes. We'll talk about that more in uh uh in steps 10, 11, and 12.

But the book really describes it. That's what should be available to us is that uh that we will be shown how to create this fellowship that we crave. It says, you know, if you live in a big city, it says near you lying helplessly, dying hopelessly are the future friends of Alcoholics Anonymous, the future members of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And then it says something really spectacular. Among them, you will make lifelong friends. These people, I might not meet the lifelong friends here at this retreat.

They might be lying out there drunk, dying hopelessly. Among them, I'll make lifelong friends. I've got an answer for those people.

I can reach my hand out to a still suffering alcoholic and I've had this experience over and over again where the the book really describes that there's three things that three ways they describe these people that we're going to meet. The first one that they use is a the book calls him a prospect. And I've always liked that.

Oh yeah, here's I got a prospect. You know, in the in the biker culture, if they kind of identify a guy they think might be able to keep his mouth shut and and kind of tow the line, they'll they'll say this guy's a prospect. Yeah, we're prospecting this guy right now.

uh he's not really a member yet. He's not even been asked to join yet, but he's a prospect. And and AA uses that word in the big book, this idea of a prospect that we look around, a this guy's and I've had that experience.

I'll see that face of hopelessness kind of make an approach, talk to a guy a little bit. The next week, oh yeah, how you doing? How you doing?

Yeah. Uh how's how's that going with your whatever it was and talk to him for a little bit and next thing you know, we're we're talking about doing step work. Oh, yeah.

Maybe you'd come over to my house sometime. And you know, there's a prospect deal going on. Uh, and then the next thing they say, they they say that it's a pro they they say, "Well, you and your proteéé." And a protetéé is a guy that we're taking through the steps and he wants what we have.

And there's nothing wrong with with having protege for a number of people that I've met through the years in the program. And I'm quite honored to to be considered, you know, that in their lives that these are people that uh have agreed to mentor me in the program that I can call at any time and let them know what I'm doing. And so it says these proteé and a protege is a guy I'm taking this guy through the steps or this girl through the steps and and they they kind of want what I have.

We're going through the steps and they're the protege. And then they wrap it up and they say that you and your friend. That's where we should be getting with the people that we sponsor.

You and your friend will commence a common journey shouldertosh shoulder. That means that we're doing something together. And this is really what I I told you I've got that aa number three.

The the picture of the man in the bed uh is up on the wall in the room where I work with people. And I love that picture because it represents something to me. It represents that uh that you and your friend that this is the idea that I am going to help somebody else get sober and then the two of us are kind of equal and we're going to go out and get aa number three.

So I tell people that now when people move away I've had a lot of people that got sober around the Seattle area and we got really good soiet really good meetings there really good foundation for working the steps for people and then they might go to some other part of the country where they don't feel they have that good and they're like boy I don't know what I'm going to do down there and and I tell them look for AA number three >> you got to get a number two first but that's not that's not where what this is about let's look let's get a number two in place but the idea is let's let's be looking for a number three that's That man in the bed picture is about that picture is a is a painting of Bill W and Dr. Bob at the bed of AA number three, Bill D. Bill.

Huh? >> Dobson. >> Bill Dobson.

There we go. You know these guys at the bed of this guy that was going to become the third guy to get sober now the And so these guys were friends and look what they were able to do. they weren't uh and so um you know I've really come to to believe in that that I have so I read a lot of my inventory when I get down and I write inventory I will read it to my friends in aa as much as I'll read it to my current sponsor I'll just I I I have a lot of people in my life now that I I'm not afraid to and they know everything about me there's nothing about me that I that I hide from them there's nothing about me that and and and I need that you know I need that ability ability to uh to have that group of of people in my life that that does know everything about me that I do do this the the inventories with and the tent steps with.

And so I think uh we're getting close. It's a quarter to noon. I think the idea is is that we're going to take a little bit of a break and we're going to come back around 1:30.

So before we do that, is there any uh questions and comments that people have? I do have this microphone here if people want to ask questions or make comments. We've covered an awful lot this morning.

We've kind of come from step two all the way up through six and seven. We come back, we're going to look at steps 8, nine, and and get into some, uh, some really great stuff with 10, 11, and 12 as well. So, um, does anybody have any questions or comments?

And I'd be glad to reach back and grab the microphone if there is. So, just raise your hand and I'll Yeah. I think it's I'm sorry that made so much noise, but I think >> I think it's better for the for the burner back here.

>> If you use that mic, >> Erica, I'm alcoholic. >> Hi. >> Okay.

The question I have is about writing inventory and when it's not based on someone is wrong because of or I'm angry at someone because of, but there's like a dark cranny sort of feeling like something happened at some point. I'm not resentful about it. I'm not angry about it, but I'm pretty sure there's an amends there somewhere.

>> Uhhuh. >> So, how do I >> This is like about a particular person. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, then you put them on a eight-step list and look at what is it that you owe an amends for. And that's a good question.

You know, just because we don't have to start with a resentment. I mean, I owe amends to people that I don't have any resentment for. I know that I need to see this person, but I I don't necessarily have an amends.

I don't know if that answers your question or not, but you talked about that dark feeling like something's wrong. You need to talk to that person. Is that the Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, the question is for myself, for my for my own amends, and it's also for leading us on see through inventory. you know, like they're asking where do I what do I do with that stuff?

And I don't know. >> Well, you put it on an eightstep list for certain. I mean, that's what we do with people that we owe amends to.

And and we'll talk about that more later, but you know, we get a lot of names off our our four-step inventory and some of the discussions that we had in five help us to, you know, the book actually says we have this list of these people. We made it when we took inventory. But there's a lot of people that are not on, you know, and the book tells us that there may not be a resentment and connection with these people that go on our eightstep list.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Please, Tom, >> we'll just have people step up here.

So, >> I told one I wouldn't do this. >> Yeah. Did I really?

I have to make amends to the group again. Tom, I'm an alcoholic. Um, in the spirit of that line, in the eighth step, we had our list.

We made it when we took inventory. What some of us do is we keep an extra page when we're writing inventory called harm's list. And the idea is that I'm stirring this pot as I'm writing inventory, this psychic pot, and a lot of stuff's going to float to the surface.

And if a random, you know, person floats to the surface, I don't have sex conduct, fear, or resentment necessarily, but I go, "Oh my god, you know, I did this, this to them." Then I put them on that list as I'm writing inventory, and it kind of takes them out of my sub. It kind of quiets that stuff so I can go on with my inventory, and then I have that to use when I get to the eighth step. That's been really helpful for a lot of people, the harms list that you do as you're as you're writing inventory.

alcoholic. My name's Adam. >> Hey, Adam.

And um in relation to the sex part of our inventory, you know, I've heard it said that, you know, you list people that you've had sex with >> all the way to, you know, everybody that you've ever flirted with, used my, you know, sexual powers, God-given sexual powers, uh, in relationship to, and what's your impression of that? It seems like it's one extreme to the other. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you asked that question. I should have maybe clarified that a little better.

I have a microphone, so um you can just turn that off until somebody's ready. Uh but the the answer to your question is as sponsors, you know, we have to be aware and careful of this because there are people that have a very short sexual inventory and there are people and and that uh where sexual addiction is concerned and that kind of thing. There's people that that you know we I've we've had to to uh and I'm struggling here just I just want to make sure I'm not sharing any you know intimate details of anybody's inventory or anything but there are people you know amongst us in Alcoholics Anonymous who have suffered you know years of sexual addiction and I said you know like for me I had to go and do some sexual therapy and and I'm so happy I admit that because every time I talk about that people come to me and say well what you know what was the deal and man I have people come out of the woodwork to talk to me about this kind of stuff And it was a good thing for me because I was able to really see that I used sex in that way.

I'm not a sex addict, but I sure was a potential sex addict because I used it as a way to nurture myself. And as a young child, I'd learned how to use sex as a way to nurture myself. It was one of the only ways I knew, you know, I was choking myself and and doing drugs and sniffing glue and stuff, but this sex was just another way to try to make myself feel good.

And when I brought that out into my adult life, it created a huge havoc. And there's people that carry that sexual addiction to to the serious extremes. And we will sponsor people like that.

And so for some people I've sponsored, I've just had to say, "Okay, let's just say the prostitutes in San Francisco and write one piece of inventory on that." And let's say the prostitutes in this area. And I I've sponsored people that belong to sexual clubs where where they would, you know, join these associations where it was just kind of, you know, where they maybe had hundreds or thousands of sexual partners. And and we have to be aware of this.

We're when we're sponsoring people, you cannot let the inventory turn into a document that can't ever be finished. You can't ever do that. Um and uh somebody remind me and I want to I want to tell a story, but it'll take about five minutes.

I don't think we have time now. But uh somebody remind me to tell you about Patrick's inventory. And and I share this with his permission and and he and I, you know, he knows that I share this and he actually thanks me for it.

likes it that I share stories about our early sobriety because uh you know it's just a genuinely good thing for both of us to remember. So um but he was a guy that wrote uh um and I'll just I'll just tell you this. It's won't I won't take five minutes to tell the story, but I will just tell you this is what we got to watch out for.

And in sexual inventory it's the same. Sometimes we need to categorize or try to find ways to get somebody. It's not the last inventory we're going to do.

Just get somebody into five. It does have to be thorough, but but uh you know to list thousands and thousands and thousands of names and and and Patrick actually wrote on around 3,000 resentments. >> Yeah.

3,000 resentments. And you know the the sad thing about that was I didn't know any better and he wasn't in touch with anybody. He was living down there.

It was it was uh it was mental illness. and he went sat down in that apartment and he wrote and he wrote tablet after tablet after tablet after tablet and he couldn't stop and he and and no one was down there to put controls on that. I tell people if you get to around 100 120 names, you better call me and we're going to see if maybe there's some repetition because instead of writing on politicians, you know, he went all the way back to uh Eisenhower and went forward, you know, and I mean that's that's the truth.

That's the truth. you know, pages, pages and pages and pages. He was a Vietnam's uh era guy and and you know, pages and pages and pages on Nixon alone, you know, and and and so uh but he wrote on this and here's the neat part of this story why it takes a couple minutes to tell is that uh is that Patrick asked me to hear his inventory and it was the first guy that I'd ever heard inventory with.

This guy comes and he'd had a he'd left his window open one night and he had his inventory like all these bundles of inventory stacked up and the rain came and it rained on his inventory. All these thousands this this life's work. Took him about a year to write this thing and working full-time every day to write this inventory.

And the rain came and he had to spread it all out and dry this whole thing out, try to save it. He was absolutely bananas about this. And he finally got it.

But so this guy came with this inventory. Not only was it this huge inventory, but it, you know, it was all swelled up and kind of and uh I didn't know what to do with it. And I so I listened to his inventory for two days and we just made a scratch in it and I didn't know what to do with it.

And so I called Jeffrey and I said, you know, what are we going to do? Patrick's in a in a bad way here. I told him, well, we don't need to read all of it.

Oh yeah. He said, you know, I mean, it was like he had a lot of of power in that. and uh um you know and and Jeffrey, you know, he's was this just this very intuitive guy, still is just a really amazing guy.

And he said, "Well, tell Patrick to call me." I'd sat with Patrick for two days and I didn't, you know, we weren't getting anywhere. We're just reading and reading and reading and hadn't even got through the first couple of notebooks and and uh so I sent him to Jeffrey and Jeffrey told Patrick, "Patrick, I will sit with you and we'll meet a couple times a week and we'll read inventory." and and Jeffrey had the understanding to just sit there and listen. And Patrick read and read and read and read.

Week after week after week after week, he came over and read. And finally one day that deal cracked and Patrick said, "I can't do it anymore. I cannot sit here and just read this crap anymore." And thank God for that.

You know, that guy was able to emerge from that that mental illness really was what it was. you know, he had just kind of spiraled into this this obsessive disorder that caused him to to have this need to just read. And he just and and you know, Jeffrey, the the the two of them tell the story now.

And and uh Patrick said, I got to a place where I just couldn't do it anymore. And I just told Jeffrey, I can't read anymore. I can't do it.

I cannot do this. And Jeffrey said, you read, you read every word of that. You know, I have sat here and you've wasted my time week after week after week.

I've sat here and now you're going to see how it feels, dude. And he said, "You're going to read that inventory." And Jeffrey sat with that guy until he read every piece of that deal. And uh and he emerged from that that deal.

And uh uh um I'll just uh if I think about it, uh let's ask the next question and then and then we'll I'll read you something that a little note I got from Patrick a few years ago. Nick alcoholic. Nick, >> this is going back to last night, but I I wanted to ask the question because I didn't understand, but I just remembered it today, right?

Like a few minutes ago. >> So, what were you what did you mean when you said >> before you sit down with a guy, you become anonymous? I didn't quite understand that.

>> Oh, I I what I meant by that is it in the it's the spirit of anonymity, which means that God works through us. It means that this this spiritual experience that I've had as a result of the steps is was not meant for me. I've really come to believe that that I'm anonymous in this process I'm doing here.

And I hope everybody gets that that this isn't about Kenny D coming down from Seattle. You know, there's a bigger picture of what's going on. I don't exactly know what that is, but I can give you the microcosm of it.

And the microcosm of it is that my spiritual experience is more important to my daughter than it is to me. I can clearly see that. you know, I'm I'm anonymous in this deal that's happened to me.

It's not about me. Uh um one of our mentors, you know, was really fond of saying, "Cenny, don't put your thumbrint on this deal. Doesn't belong to you.

You know, don't uh come up with a step guide on how to work the steps and put your name on it. It's okay to give people instructions, but let's not put your name on it, you know. Let's be let's be a uh it's the spirit of anonymity." And that's what I meant.

When I'm working with a newcomer, I will pray say that prayer that I said maybe before I even open this that you know that God, you know, please be our guide here. Guide my thoughts, my actions, and especially our words as we go through this 12step process that God is the guide here. I'm just the the vehicle.

So, that's what I meant by that. This is a note I got from from Patrick a few years ago. Uh, and Patrick, I want to be Patrick's had his struggles, but uh, and he's currently going through some struggles.

We could keep him in our prayers, but uh, you know, this was a guy that came off the skids, this guy with all these resentments that was down there just suffering from mental illness. And this is, uh, uh, every time I look at this, does the same thing to me. So, people don't usually worry.

My home group members know this about me. They don't worry about me. They just tell people, "Oh, he'll recover.

He'll be okay here in a second. Just hang." Uh, this is from Illinois State University. And this little note came in the mail a few years ago.

It says, "Thanks for everything over the years, Pat W." And it says, 'The faculty, staff, and graduating class of Illinois State University announced that Patrick Welsh is a candidate for the degree of Master of Science and Political Science with a concentration in applied community and economic development at the commitments exercise Saturday, December 15, 2001 at 9:00. Isn't that amazing that that's that this would be from that story that I just told you? Yeah.

These are these transformations in that we have here in AA. You know, you don't want to miss this. That's what they say the bit about the 12step work.

You don't want to miss this. You get to see these these people completely transformed. Completely transformed.

You know, this guy that got a master's degree in political science from Illinois State University is not the same Patrick that was down in the basement right in that inventory month after month and and you know, week after week, month after month. you know, this is a guy who's who's been reborn here in AA and he's got this new life today and uh uh uh you know, he's got this applied community and economic development and and uh um so he's currently back and forth to Iraq trying to help to kind of put Humpty Dumpty back together again and use some of the stuff that he's been taught for, you know, this redevelopment and stuff is kind of his specialty and and uh So that's what what he's doing now. Uh so with that, uh unless there's any other questions, I think it is about noon in time for to break for lunch.

So um we will reconvene at 1:30. Is that correct? Does that sound like a gives us an hour and a half to eat lunch and kind of get some exercise?

And when we come back, we'll talk about kind of how many more sessions we want to do between then and dinner and then what we want to do after dinner. We'll talk about that a little bit before we start the next section and start the tape roll and we'll have a little group conscience here. So, thank you everybody.

>> You're welcome. >> I think my mic is on, huh? >> Is that working?

Okay, welcome back everybody. We got the thumbs up from our our burner there. So, uh welcome back.

We will go ahead and do about a uh just a quick one or two minute silent meditation to kind of bring the group back together. Uh if people continue to join us through the evening, we will just continue to make the circle uh larger. So if anybody's outside the circle wants to come in the circle, that's great.

And if you're not if you're more comfortable in the back, that's all right, too. But So, >> you guys, >> okay, so we actually have plenty of empty chairs. So, if somebody wants to move in, they can.

There's There's one here. There's a couple here. So, we will uh go ahead and I will uh ring the meditation chime and that will remind us that we're coming back into session as a group and we'll do a minute or two meditation.

I'll bring us out of that with a prayer. Heavenly Father, mother and child. Lord of the happy, joyous, and free, we thank you for your presence here with us this weekend.

and we'd ask for your continued guidance as we go forward from here in this uh this retreat here at the Gloretta Conference Center. We'd ask that you would be our guide here, that you would guide our thoughts and our actions and especially our words, that you would fill us with your love and allow that love to overflow to the many people in need and that will be in our lives. Amen.

So, we are on the the ninth step. I think we'll kind of start making this transition to eight or nine. Yeah, Tony, >> we didn't talk about six and seven.

>> No, we will. Do you want to talk about six and seven for a minute? >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Um, we did, you know, I shared a little bit of my experience in six and seven that uh you know, if you looked at six and seven and and thanks for for reminding me. I think maybe we'll we'll cover that just real quickly here.

But the if you look at six and seven in the big book, it's it's really a couple of paragraphs and and it's really uh you know there's there's there's there's times in the book where they they give us the at once and we launched and and uh and now there's action and more action where they really give us these kind of keep moving signals. And six and seven is one of the things where they give us a signal where you know it's kind of a win ready deal. And six and seven can be like the experience that I described right after that first fistep where I was just completely humbled and I was I just God please I cannot live another day like this.

and six and seven. And I've had instructions uh and I won't get into too much of that, but I've had instructions further on into my sobriety where people wanted me to sit with some certain ideas and really make certain that I was really ready to let go of this financial issue or really ready to let God enter into my life in this area or that I was, you know, some of the kind of the the further layers of peeling the onion, if you will, that I've had some of that time where I've really needed to sit in six and seven before it actually came to me. the when ready was maybe a week or two after I'd done five.

But uh in the sevenstep prayer, you know, the there's, you know, it's it's the stand the things that asking God to remove those things that stand in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. And that's been such a a a useful thing for me to see for myself and also for other people because doesn't mean that God's going to come in and remove all of those things. God is going to come in and remove all those things that are blocking me from my usefulness to to to God and my fellows.

And that doesn't mean everything that that I'm quite an imperfect person. And it's some of those uh there was a uh there are some of those some of those attributes and things that some people may see as shortcomings. Maybe those are the very same things that that some of the people I sponsor really love about me.

You know, sometimes I don't I don't focus and pay attention and they'll they'll be talking about something and then I'll I'll come off the wall with some idea that's totally out of left field and they'll kind of laugh. Oh, there he goes again. You know, he's he wasn't you know, he's he's off on some tangent or something.

So, I have these kinds of things, but God is the one that determines that. When I say it's been useful to me, myself as well as other people. if I uh um you know there was a time in my sobriety where where you know I was dropping the fbomb right and left in meetings just it was just part of my vernacular and I would just use it people would get offended by it and stuff and you know I was sponsoring people successfully during that time and and the you know the when I was first in the program uh you know I was attracted to people that kind of had this rugged edge and they were real hardcore and stuff.

God God made those people useful and God made me useful. And it's just something that kind of just went away without a lot of effort on my part. It just isn't a part of who I am anymore.

I just don't use that that that kind of language. And it wasn't a big effort on my part. You know, I I really prayed for that to go away and I prayed for it, but it just kept coming out and coming out and coming out.

And now in meetings when when I when I hear people using that kind of stuff, I can just think, well, that person's not talking to me. And it'd be pretty selfish of me to sit around and think that everybody that speaks in the AI meeting should be talking directly to me and saying something that I agree and like and and so I can can look around and say, "Well, that person's probably being useful to somebody else and maybe some new guy that wouldn't be attracted to me will go up and ask this guy to sponsor him." And uh um you know that I think that uh it's a really nice way to look at six and seven is it's a it's the ability it it's asking for for me to to put this stuff in in God's hands and not my hands. And God will remove this stuff to the degree that he finds that it's blocking me from from my usefulness to to others.

So I don't know if that helps a little bit. It's hard to really for me to talk a long time on six and seven. There is quite a long dissertation on six and seven and the 12 and 12 and it's very beautiful stuff and I would encourage everybody to read it because you know we are we we do look at like one two paragraphs in the big book on six and seven versus two chapters in the 12th and 12th and they they they you know there is some expanded ideas that we can get out of this but that's the the core for me.

You know, six is to be done immediately at following seven and six is to be immediately done following five and seven is to be done when we've really looked at six and we're completely ready to say, God, I don't know what's going to happen with these character defects, but as far as they're standing in the way of my usefulness to you, I'd ask that you'd remove them. and you say a prayer and we, you know, then once you've said that prayer, then it says uh that now we need action and more action. So now we're looking at step eight and nine.

They don't give us a lot of time to really reflect and and I kind of like that. You know, it's something that we should do. Um some people do that with their sponsors.

When I do it with people, I do the fifth step. When I'm done with doing a fifth step, I give those people instructions for the hour after for going back and looking at all those cornerstones in the books and and uh you know and going back and doing that review step, that hour of review and then I ask them on their own to do six and seven and I tell them to call me when they're done and then we will talk about what that experience was like for them, what you know, what kind of things they they happen in six and seven and then we immediately start getting them to write their eightstep list. So, um I did have some other things and it's not we are going to going to talk about uh steps eight and nine and but I had some you know I've had some questions and some things that that I thought about uh um I was talking with with Karen and Wanita at lunch up here and Karen said something that made me have a thought and and uh you know there's I talked about one of these guys who has been a mentor to me that was uh you know I heard Somebody described him one time, they introduced him to the podium and they said, you know, I want to introduce one of A's great sponsors.

And I really believe that guy was was at sponsored a couple people, I think, here in this room, maybe even. And and uh uh he's gone now. But one of the other great AA sponsors that a lot of people know is Chuck C.

You know, he's another guy that was described in the same way. People really believe him to be one of the really great AA sponsors. He sponsored a lot of people.

He traveled all over the country for years and years and years. He's been gone. I think he's been gone maybe my entire sobriety.

Is that right? >> 84. >> 84.

I got sober in ' 89. So, he was definitely gone 5 years before I got sober, but he left behind, you know, a great uh lineage of people and and people still out there doing great work. And and you know, one of the things that he said in this deal that this conversation reminded me about that uh they taped one of these retreats that he did and he used to call it and I actually don't think he actually ever really liked it.

I think I remember reading that about him. He didn't like that people referred to it that way, but they would call it, you know, that he would have church. You know, they would say, "Oh, yeah, Chuck C's coming to town.

We're going to have church." Which meant that Chuck C would come and they would get a group of people would always come and they would just ask him questions and answers. Questions and answers. And uh but he did one of these retreats that was taped and then they turned it into a book called A New Pair of Glasses.

They took the recordings and put it in a book for him and it's called A New Pair of Glasses. And if you have never read it, you really owe it to yourself. It was just a amazing retreat and it kind of came out of a conversation.

They said, "Chuck, with all the work that you've ever done in AA, uh what was really kind of the the top thing that you really remember where you really felt like your your message was right on?" And he said he they said he didn't even pause. He said, "Well, it was that men's retreat that I did at that location and they got the tapes and they turned it into a a book to kind of get the essence of Chuck C a little bit." But in that new pair of glasses, you know, he talks about uh that he was living in that same house, sitting in that same chair, had to make that same God, you know, that driving that long commute, driving that same car, been married to that same woman every day. He was doing that and he just felt like he was in hell.

He just felt like he was in hell. Just this monotonous thing is driving him crazy. And then he had this experience that we've been talking about here working the steps.

And he said after that that I was married to that same woman. I was sitting in that same chair in that same house making that same long commute two hours each way to Los Angeles working at that same company. And I felt like I was in heaven.

And he says, you know, maybe heaven is just a new pair of glasses. And I just always love that deal that nothing, you know, that nothing on the outside really needs to change for me to get better. And it was such good news that none of that inventory stuff, you know, all those people and all none of that stuff had to change for me to get better.

You know, all those other people could stay the same and all the conditions can stay the same. That it never is the outside stuff. And it drives the people I sponsor nuts because they'll come to me with this big problem about her.

you know, she's really big big problem and and I say, "Well, you know, it's not even remotely possible that this problem has anything to do with her." And it drives them nuts. Well, you know, I hate it when you keep saying that, you know, and uh but it's been my experience, you know, my experience is is that that that it's not even remotely possible that the problem ever exists outside of myself. And it's great news for us here in AA, isn't it?

that that uh uh that you know the the terms aren't outside of this spiritual experience you know this work that takes place within ourselves the answer is never any any further you know they say that you know like he is closer than than hands and feet it's the answer is just right there and uh and the other I had a couple other comments and stuff uh um and and this kind of goes to sponsorship we will come back to the amener in a minute but uh a couple People have asked me like, "Well, what do you do when when somebody's doing this?" Or somebody asked me, "Well, how many times do you let somebody not show up before, you know, what's the limit, you know, before you kind of have to cut them off?" And and I'm always a little uncomfortable with those kind of questions because uh you know, there is no real answers to a lot of this stuff. and and even in the spiritual life that uh there isn't you know it's it's the hard and fast not the hard and fast but just these hard oneline answers you know uh they don't sometimes really fit the bill very well when you're actually doing the work in the spiritual life and and the a lot of what we'll talk about the rest of this week and we'll get to 89 we'll talk about you know the the 10th and 11th step is really about inspiration And it's about intuitive thought. This guy that I was talking about that that that uh is one of the A's great sponsors, not Chuck C, but uh but Don the you know the thing that I noticed about this guy was he was probably one he probably is the most intuitive person I ever met.

You know, I mean that guy could pick the face of hopelessness out of a huge crowd, you know, and he found me that way. you know, at the world convention in Seattle, you know, he and I had a chance to talk and kept running into it. She just was intuitive guy that would just intuitively know, okay, well, what's going on?

And and you know, he just had the the just this deal. This work kind of prepares us in that direction. This this this intuitive thought.

So, the the real hardline answers sometimes don't fit really well. like when somebody comes to me and I was really stuck, you know, this this and I'm sure they use this out in New Mexico as well. It's it's found out here, but this idea 90 meetings in 90 days, you know, 90 meetings, 90 days.

Well, that's great. If somebody comes to me and and they don't have a job and they're drawn unemployment, they're not even thinking about looking for a job, they just need to kind of get better. I I'm going to tell them to go to an A meeting every day until I tell you to stop.

I just want you in meetings every day all day long if you can, you know, just kind of hang out to go to lots and lots and lots of meetings and that's the right answer for that guy. But if a woman comes to me and she's a single woman and or a single guy uh with one or two or three kids, do you see what I'm talking about? It's a cruel message.

90 meetings in 90 days. It's it's got to be, you know, we got to be intuitive like and and the big book tells us to find out all you can about the person because you'll be better able to put yourself in their shoes to see how you would like to be treated if you were in that place. Uh it it takes a intuitive thought, the inspiration when you're working with these people.

So, and I have had that circumstance, the single parent with kids. And what I tell them is I tell them, well, you come to my house once a week and you bring your kids and we'll make them dinner. my wife and my daughter will watch your kids while you and I do the work and I'll work it out with my wife and I'll tell them and then you come to the one meeting a week at my home group and at my home group we have daycare so when you come to my home group you bring your kids and we'll watch your kids for you and we hire professional daycare people uh people that know how to handle kids and we know the kids are going to be safe and so you come to the one meeting a week you bring your kids you bring your kids to my house once a week and the last week.

If you can arrange a babysitter or something and get to a couple other meetings, that's great. But let's just do that for now. We'll talk on the phone a few times and we'll get you started on some step work.

That's the that's that's exactly the opposite message I gave the other guy. But the the the circumstances were different. And it's the same thing with how many times will I let a guy miss an appointment before I I uh cut him off?

Well, I don't have an answer for that. I don't know. I mean, I I don't have a set, you know, it's not like a three strikes you're out rule at my house.

The Uh, you know, Joe came up with an excuse letter, so he's okay. Uh, >> right. >> Yeah.

Probably paid Brendon to write. Yeah. Yeah.

And, uh, so, you know, we have to be intuitive on this stuff and and it there isn't the the right answer. And it goes even a little deeper in the spiritual life. Uh there was a guy one time and I that I was reading a lot of and what he used to say uh is he used to say in the spiritual life the I don't know is a lot of times the right answer.

He says when you arrive at the I don't know a lot of times you're already home. He says and and there's so many things going on in the spiritual world that I don't have answers for. in and if I and he said sometimes the I don't know is better than this uh extreme effort to find the answers that when we do find them they're only partially satisfying and I think you all know what I'm talking about we find these answers sometimes in the spiritual life for why does this happen or why does that happen or why is there you know why if there's a god does this stuff take place and all of these kinds of things well sometimes I don't know is is you're already home because the answers to some of those those kind of questions in my experience Uh, in the end, my own experiences, they've only been partially satisfying.

Anyways, so um I have a little dog at home. It's a little a half chihuahua, half toy rat terrier little fella. And uh uh and you know, I look at that dog and I think, well, its capabilities are are kind of limited in in a lot of respects.

Uh, so I mean that dog and and it's actually I should it's my wife's dog. The uh I got to correct that. But she spent so much time with that dog.

That dog can do all kinds of tricks. I mean it's really a tricky little dog. It can do uh it does the you know it plays dead.

It does the sit down. I mean it it fetches stuff. It does the She's got it doing these agility training courses where it does the weaves and the jumps and and goes through hoops and stuff.

All kinds of things. and uh you know it's a great little dog, but I'm never going to teach that dog to fix my computer. You know, it's it's its capacity to do certain things are limited.

And I've kind of got to a thought place where I think it would be kind of rather arrogant of myself to think that maybe I'm not limited in some fashion myself. that that if I could get my mind wrapped around God, I uh uh I wouldn't really need God, would I? You know, I would kind of be this person that just has all the answers myself.

So, um so I just kind of put that out because a lot of questions that people ask, you know, they're really maybe there's not a really direct answer, you know, it's more about, well, what are you inspired to do? What's your intuition tell you? Those are the kind of directions that are think are more helpful in these in these situations and and uh um or we can just share our experience that hey that heading down that road is a big waste of time.

I've already done it. Don't worry about it. Let's worry about this other deal instead.

So I had a couple of those thoughts on on my mind. I just wanted to to throw them out there. Um, steps eight and nine, you know, the the step eight is to make the list of all of the people that we've harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.

Uh, I think probably a lot of people from this group, I'm guessing, have uh kind of learned how to put their, you know, make their list and then put the names on 3×5 cards. And and I really like that method. I really have uh found that that's very helpful because if I'm having trouble finding somebody, it gives me a place to like make all my notes and phone numbers and it makes gives me a chance to kind of go have one name in front of me and make go over my card.

I just write things out on a 3×5 card. It's very simple. And part of my 3×5 cards are pluses and minuses.

And uh uh and when I start, I've got some people that there's absolutely no way I'm willing to go to. And eventually I'll get to a place where I have pluses on all my cards. I'm willing to go to all of those.

And a lot of those are kind of getting into the spirit of amends. Uh I get to a place where I do a few amends and I see that there's really nothing to be afraid of here that I'm actually in a position where I'm being spiritually enlightened through going in this process of making amends and I'm willing to uh go then I start saying, "Yeah, I'm definitely willing to do that that that." And when my cards get to be all pluses, then I can really honestly say I'm in step nine. And uh the the big book tells us that we commence this new way of life talking about 10, 11, and 12 as we clean up the wreckage for the p of the past.

So once you're in amends and you really are in this place where you don't have any amends that you're not willing to do, uh it's the time to start 10, 11, and 12. And and I'll share a few amends experiences. And I think it'd be nice that uh you know that that uh I'm going to stick to just my own experience in a men's.

Uh the one of the the greatest things for me about amends and it was more powerful to me than anything the book had to say about amends is that is that I heard these amends stories from people in our groups and there was you know these guys that were going up and knocking on the doors of houses they burglarize. I just couldn't believe that anybody would do that. And and actually when I was very first sober, one of the things that really kind of woke me up to the fact that there was a different kind of AA program than the one that I was working was uh uh and I really I mean I mean that with all sincerity.

It is funny now, but I really believe that the AA program I was working was the AA program, which meant, you know, go to lots and lots and lots of meetings and try not to drink no matter what. And and uh uh kind of share about, you know, your day and the problems that you were having in your life. and and that that was kind of aa and the work the steps off the wall thing.

Well, yeah, I think I've done yeah, done that, done that. And and no, no, I'll never do that one. And and that was that was, you know, I thought that was kind of how AA worked.

You know, kind of a one step a year deal or something. Don't get too carried away here. And and uh uh you know, I was I was in early sobriety.

I was working down at that car lot. Al was giving me the five bucks an hour down there. And of course, I didn't want to spend that $5 on myself for food and stuff because, you know, I might need to show off to one of the girls at the club or something, buy them a latte.

Oh, let me get that for you or something with my $15 that I had for the day. You know, I was going to be buying other try to play the big shot and buy somebody a coffee or something. So, instead of buying my cigarettes, I would steal my cigarettes.

And I this I didn't I honestly I I really did I looked at it back in those days as kind of a matter of intelligence like why pay you know these people are really stupid. Why would you pay for something that you can so easily boost at the store you know and uh and I thought that about everything. And I thought, why, you know, why would anybody buy a color television set at the store, you know?

I mean, I just couldn't figure that out because, you know, you could go downtown and get them for like 15 bucks. You know, you just tell them what you want and you come back the next day and they got your RCA, you know, and $15, $20 and you got a new TV. And and uh I just that's the way my came into the program with that kind of a mindset that I looked down on other people that really that that that were living a normal way of life.

And so I was boosting cigarettes and this guy named Jimmy Recctor who was part of that first workshop that I talked about. He was coming into the meetings and he was sponsored by a guy in our area who was a priest that sponsored people but he was a heavy duty big book guy and uh and Jimmy was sponsored by this priest and and I knew that you know he had some pretty heavy duty sponsorship. But Jimmy was coming into the meetings and saying I was and this was when you could smoke an AA and I was smoking away these stolen cigarettes.

And Jimmy was coming in and saying I just made six more amends today to stores where I shoplifted from. And God make me so got dang nervous I have to light one stole cigarette right off the other one. I just be like, "Holy cow, man." I mean, it really freaked me out because here I'm stealing and this guy's talking about making amends to these stores he used to shoplifted from.

And it it made me very uncomfortable. I wish he wouldn't. I just kind of was hoping.

But it really woke me up to I it really was part of that decision of I am going to go down to that workshop these guys are talking about. I'm going to go down here because it woke me up to the fact that man, this guy's AA program is way different than the kind of AA program I'm working. You know, this is and I saw him like I could see the lights coming on and and uh he was one of those guys and you hear the story around.

He was one of those guys that that uh he was one of those guys that had the experience of drinking at a young age and being a just a downright dirty drunk right from the start. He was a young kid. Got sober when he was young and he's still sober today.

But he was like, you know, he he took a drink and at 15 he was living in the dumpsters, you know. I mean, he was that kind of a a guy. Just just went quickly as a young person.

Got into AA and you know, he needed that full deal. you know, he was his the terms for that guy were the same as they are for me and he made he made his amends and kind of got me going on that deal. Some of those amends stories that that we share around the program are so important that that we share this stuff with people and it's one of those encouraging things that kind of took the fear out of the amends a little bit for me and and uh and I have done all those things.

You know, I made that amends to my mom for all that that crap that I did. And the thing that came to me and I worked with a sponsor and I would suggest that anybody that's making amends work with a sponsor so that you don't go make amends to the ex-girlfriend with ulterior motives first. You know that that's not the one that oh yeah I think I'll go to her first and uh but you know I got a chance to go to my mom and and sit and talk with my mom and you know I'd stolen I'd done all kinds of things took the money out of her purse all these kind of things and and and my sponsor said you know Kenny she's you can bring that up but that's not what she's concerned about.

you know, you took this right for her to be a mother away and you need to let her know that, you know, you that you want her to be a mother and you need to let her know. And I I did, too. And I saw and and we talked about this at lunch a little bit, too.

You know, I my mother carried this huge amount of pain about the kind of mother she'd been. And I saw that get healed during that amends when I told her that I remember when you used to play guitar to us every night. I told her about remember the Christmas tree.

I remember and man, she just balled, you know. She just said, "I didn't think you remembered that stuff. I didn't think, you know, I just thought you hated me.

I didn't think you remembered any of that stuff." And it was, it was just, you know, one of those uh uh intuitive thoughts that my sponsor had that no, no, I don't think you want to talk too much about stealing all those tools out of her garage and all that. She knows that you she knows that you did that. She knows that you took that money out of her purse.

You know, she wants she wants to hear that you remember all the good things. That's what's really going to make a difference for her. tell her that you remember that she was a good mom.

Uh, you know, that made a huge difference. I got a chance to make amends to my sister. My sister had not known how far downhill I had gone and I hadn't really lived.

You know, this sister was eight years younger than I was. Uh, is is eight years younger than I am, I should say. Uh, eight years younger than I was, but she's eight years younger than I am.

And, uh, and so I never really lived with her. I mean, I was out of the house and and she, you know, my mom got sober when she was I was like 13, she was five and uh and so she kind of had a much different upbringing. My my stepfather was out of the house at this time and and gone.

So, it was just her and my mom and she had a little different upbringing and but she called me. She my mom had moved to Vancouver Washington and I was still in Seattle. She got accepted to Cornish, which is an art institute in Seattle.

And and she wanted to come up to go to school at Cornish, and she called me and her older brother that lived in Seattle. And she really didn't know fully what was going. She knew I partied a lot.

She didn't fully know what was going on. And and uh uh in my life, and she asked if she could come up and live with me and go to court. She didn't have enough money to like rent an apartment.

And and uh I was on the spot a little bit. Well, yeah. I said, "Come on up.

You know, I'll help you out." And uh she came up and the scene was just this horrid scene in my house. And somehow even sober all that time, I really believed that my sister didn't fully understand what was going on in the house because I told all my friends, hey, let's kind of keep keep things on the down low here a little bit. You know, it's okay to drink or or smoke a little pot or something, but you know, hard drug.

We take that to the back of the house, you know. So, and I thought that was working like she doesn't know what's going on. She's just coming and going, going to school and stuff and she doesn't really realize what's going on in the house.

But the house completely fell apart. I had a couple roommates and the house completely fell apart. My my sister was forced to move in with this boyfriend that she barely knew, but she, you know, she had to pack her bags and go somewhere and she was enrolled in school and this guy was abusive and it was just a bad situation.

So, I was making amends for that. And I was taught in amends that we always, you know, that we we say our part and then a big part of the amends is the listening that I ask some questions and I do a lot of listening in amends and I ask uh did I leave anything out? I ask what is it that I can do?

I ask did I leave anything out? I ask uh uh how did this do you need to tell me how this affected you? And I ask uh what is it that I can do to make it right?

And then I do those things and and those questions, you know, I asked these people and I asked my sister, you know, did I leave anything out and do you need to tell me how this affected you? And she said, 'Well, yeah. Uh, she said, do you know during that time that I was so upset emotionally at what was happening to you that I couldn't eat?

And she said, "Do you know that I was in the bathroom throwing up because my guts were just wrenched?" And she said, 'I would go in at night, all night long, I would come into your bedroom and check to see if there was still a pulse to see if you were still alive. She said, I thought I was going to have to call mom and tell her that I'd found my brother dead. And I had no idea, you know, I had no idea up to that point that that had ever happened.

You know, I kind of remembered that I had, you know, that the house thing hadn't worked out very well. I had a I had a lot of amends that were like that. these these things.

Uh uh I told you about the Friday night I told you about falling asleep with cigarettes was kind of a problem that I had. And I made an amends to this girl and and I said, you know, is there anything, you know, am I leaving anything out? And she said, well, yeah, you fell asleep with a cigarette.

Burned my bed up. You know, you owe me a bed. And I still haven't had a chance to buy her a bed, but she knows that I will someday.

She actually said, well, that bed didn't black belong to me. It belonged to my sister. And I got a hold of her sister and offered to buy her a bed.

And she said, "Well, someday maybe." and and but you don't owe me anything for now. And and so I stand ready if they ever need uh a bed, either one of them that I will be willing to buy a bed. But I made an amends, but that same girl that I made that amends to was was one of them.

And there's about five of them now that are in the program was one of the people that I made amends to. And uh and when I got to the what is it that I can do to make it right, they said, 'Well, you can tell me what in the hell are you doing that's changed you like this? Because I was a you know a different person.

They want to know how did you stop drinking? How did you stop drinking? What are you doing?

And there's like five of these people now that are that are uh a couple of them members of my home group. people that I went to a men's do amends, people that were drinking and drugging, people that were kind of running partners and stuff. I had a guy that, you know, on my little resentment list, it was it was uh Yogi.

He left me for dead. Remember I told that story about that guy that would come by? His job was to come by in the mornings to the hotel room and knock on the door and see if I was still alive.

He would knock and and then I would come to the door and he would say, "Hey, uh, just checking. Just, you know, I'm on my way to work. I just was worried about you.

I'm just checking to see if you're doing all right. Oh, yeah, man. I'm I'm cool.

I'm cool. Thanks for coming by. And uh um but he and I, you know, I mean, uh you know, we do a lot of damage to people.

And I he was a good friend for many years. And I actually kind of found out found the hard drugs and I I kind of like told him, "Oh, this is, you know, you're not going to believe how cool this is. You know, come with me, man.

I got I'm going places, you know, come hang out with me for a while." And he did. And it destroyed his life. and and uh uh and we were doing some some deals up in Seattle and I got really really really sick in this hotel room and uh he took the rest of the money that we had left which wasn't much you know we were on our way downhill and and he had a a huge habit at this time and he took the rest of the money and he split and he went to California and I didn't see him for several years and you know I kind of told people if I ever see that guy or I'm gonna you know we're gonna I made a lot of threats and this was like a guy who'd been a childhood in and uh um and you know when I got sober I realized you know when I the the resentment was that I had you know that he'd left me for dead in this hotel room and the truth was is that I had placed him in this position.

That was the truth of it. I remembered it clearly talking me into this whole deal telling him come with me. Oh, we're going to make lots of money.

This is going to be really cool. And it it was just a total disaster. And uh and I put him in that position and I called and made that amends to that guy.

And uh a couple days later he called me back and he said, "I'm in real trouble down here. I'm in real trouble and I need some help." And I was able to get on a plane, take time from work, get on a plane, fly down to Los Angeles on my own. And you know the the great thing about that and my sponsor helped me with that.

He said, "You go. You know, well, don't I need to take somebody with me or No, no, you're safe and protected here, dude. You're all right.

you go. And I went, you know, it says that we can go to the most sorted places on earth if we're armed with this this, you know, armed with the facts about ourselves. We're armed with this mess.

We can go to the most sorted places on earth. And this was, you know, this was I went down to Los Angeles. He was living in this crappy house.

He had this girlfriend that was just a raging Allenon. And the whole time I'm trying to help this guy, she is literally he's he's trying to kick on a couch and he's shaking and, you know, got the cold sweats and his nose is running and he's just in bad shape. And this girl is actually kicking him like walking over and just wham and just saying, you know, I don't know why you're trying to I don't know why you're trying to help him.

You know, this guy, he's not going to ever amount to anything and he's just a lousy bum. I don't know why I'm letting him stay here. And uh it was just it really was this most sorted place on earth.

And I I uh I put him in touch. I got down there. Uh we did a few things.

I got him in touch. We had dinner with Kevin Se who whom you might some of you might know and Joe uh and and uh got him hooked up with some of the meetings down there and uh and you know he still wasn't you know he was still kind of chipping away when I left and the whole time I was a little you know I mean I'd done some some some deeds with this guy and I wasn't really comfortable like telling him hey by the way I found God you know and now it's all I kind of you know I just was telling him I found the solution. I wanted other people to kind of but in the end just before I flew out of Los Angeles I told him I said here's the real deal.

I said you know I'm living the spiritual way of life and I'm praying and and you know would you mind doing a prayer with me and he was like well you know I guess it couldn't hurt and be all right with me and I had a rental car. I was just dropping him off and uh and I sat and held his hand and we did a prayer in the car and I left. You know, that was my mens and I I left and I got up to Seattle and there was a message on my machine and he said, "Man, I don't know what happened." But, you know, after that prayer, you know, I just was, you know, I really think I'm done and and I'm really I'm going to call those guys.

I'm gonna do what I can and and uh you know, I was at this the San Diego World Convention with that guy. He's uh sober about 11 12 years now. Uh you know, he's still sober today.

All that stuff. And that was like out of the of a you know, that was born out of a resentment of a guy who left me for dead, you know, just one of those unforgivable things, you know, just terrible. Unforgivable.

>> Yeah. >> What happened to >> uh they are still together and she is still uh uh I got to think about this is being this is being this is being burned onto a CD. So, uh, she's she's not currently attending Alanon and I wish she would.

Yeah, she could she she could really benefit from that. And they are still together and they have a a child together and so Yeah. Yeah.

So, uh, you know, and uh um, you know, I mean, I could I could I can tell you story after story after story like this of of things that had happened. I talked about I'll tell you a story about my grandfather and and uh you know uh I when I was a young teenager and I was really in trouble. My grandfather kind of picked me up and said, "Hey, listen.

Come on down here." He was working for a a company that owned some some ships. Come on down. We'll put you to work.

Well, you know, his kind of idea was, you know, pull you up by your bootstrap. We'll stick you on a boat going up to Alaska and it'll straighten your ass out. And he was right.

It actually worked actually. You know, I I really did. I straightened it out.

I kind of became a man a little bit. I learned how to work hard and and even though I was partying like crazy during that those years, I actually kind of made something of myself. I actually got a house that that house that my sister came to stay at was a house that I'd gotten during from this job.

And I was I actually bought my first brand new car and and uh uh but I lost all that stuff eventually. Um, and this family was a family business that my grandfather worked for, and he got me that job. And I went to, you know, I I I that that family ended up putting me through treatment twice.

I ended up stealing from that family. I ended up uh doing all of those kinds of things that we do. And I really, you know, destroyed this guy's confidence.

and he actually told my family that uh you know after we had that Thanksgiving uh disaster and he came to visit me. I was in a hospital and and I was trying to detox and and somehow he found out I was there. I called my mom or something and then he was he came up to visit me and he just came in and looked at me and he just started crying.

He said, "Oh my god, I didn't realize that you'd gone down this far." And and uh and he left and he told my family, "We've just got to write him off. there's nothing more that we can do for this guy. We've done too much, you know, don't give him any money.

And and he just kind of wrote me off and I'd really destroyed his confidence and and I was really trying my best to make the amends. And I made the amends to my grandmother. She accepted the the approach, you know, I made the approach and I got the appointment set and I went and I did the amends with my grandmother.

My grandfather wouldn't see me. He stayed he was in the house, but he actually stayed in a little deal he called the den, you know, where he would go into his den and stay there. And I had and so my sponsor just says, "No, you keep going.

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