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Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Hi there.

I'm Cord. I'm an alcoholic. >> Thank you for having me here.

Uh, how does it last until 8:00 the meeting? >> 8:15. You got about an hour time.

>> Okay. So, I was thinking about maybe speaking for 40 45 minutes, something like that. and then if we have some discussion after that.

Uh yeah, thank you for having me here. I'm here because I don't want to drink again. That's the only reason why um I need to carry this message and and carrying this message is one of the most powerful things that that keep me sober and keep me close to God that I that I have have, you know, have at my disposal today.

So, so that you know that's why I'm here. My my home group here at in this continent at least is Bridge to Shore. We meet on in Monday nights at 2218, the Aleno Club there, which is by the way the oldest functioning Leno club in the known universe, which is pretty cool.

Uh, my sobriety date is January the 12th, 1999. And as I've said before, you know, I like I like saying that I I got sober some some sometime in the last century. Sounds pretty cool, but you know, I barely just made it.

Uh kind of my qualifications for being here, I guess, is that I've been I've been working this program from the Big Book since August of 1999. And just to outline for for you guys where I'm coming from is that in about Christmas of 1998, something like that, I'd been both test driving the physical allergy of this illness and the mental obsession for for some time. And I was pretty convinced that I I couldn't drink.

I was pretty convinced that I had an allergy towards alcohol and I was pretty convinced that that I couldn't live any kind of a functional life if I was drinking alcohol. And uh what ended up happening is that I through a series of unfortunate events I I ended up kind of without a home traveling around uh Europe drinking and um and one of the places I was staying was my dad's house. she lived in Belgium at the time.

And uh I had a moment of clarity there and I got totally convinced that I would die if I wouldn't stop drinking. And I wasn't even 21 years old. And I can't explain why I had this gift of despair at that moment in time.

I you know, and today as I perceive reality, it was only through the grace of God as I understand him that I had that despair. There are people who drink like I did all their lives and they never get that despair and they never get that motivation if if I might say. So, you know, I don't know.

I I just was totally convinced there were no empty, you know, rounds left in the Russian roulette I'd been playing. Was totally convinced. So, I I called, you know, back home and got and got back on um on the track of trying to stay sober.

And I and I remember when I was on a on a plane riding home, I made a short list of what I was going to do to stay sober. And uh I remember I was going to, you know, wake up early in the morning. I never woke up early in the morning if I was drinking or, you know, was it's kind of I was going to do it every day, you know.

I I And I was going to go swimming each morning. That's kind of a sanitary thing to do in Iceland. People go swimming every morning.

There are public pools everywhere. And I was going to do that and and I was going to read a religious text for an hour each day. And so I had this thing and and then I was going to eat musli.

You I have musli here. It's like uh like like really coarse oats. really good for, you know, for your uh GI tract.

So, you know, I was going to do that because I never ate breakfast. And uh and I went ahead and I went home and I got up at 6:30 in the morning. I went swimming, you know, I ate my musli, you know, really healthy stuff.

And I I read a religious text for an hour each morning. It was you know the religious text I chose to read if I if I mention it I I I have offended some people in the past which is not a hobby of mine. So I just say it's this religious text is no picnic to read.

You know it's not like it's not like uh reading a comic. You know what I'm saying? I really had to concentrate and and kind of work through it.

But still I did it. And after uh after about six weeks of that I I kind of figured out I was going to drink anyway. You know what I'm saying?

All my fine program I've been trying to stay sober there for been relapsing for two years. Uh with all my fine attempts, this was getting me nowhere and I felt it. I I was kind of getting to know what the mental obsession was like a little bit and I knew the place I was at.

You know, I was going to drink again and and you know the you know doing my own spiritual cultivating without any action. That's kind of my point. You know doing physical exercise and then eating a lot of musli.

the the the only better, you know, the only improvements I got from all this was maybe, you know, better stools for me to eat mostly and exercising. You know what I'm saying? But I was still still going to get drunk because I'm an alcoholic and exercise and, you know, fiddling with this and this this and that is not going to get me sober.

Uh, and I am a real alcoholic. And when I I remember when I was sitting in the chairs of in the beginning and I heard somebody say, "I'm a real alcoholic." My my stomach used to churn. You know what I'm saying?

I was I'm not a You know, what does that mean? I'm not a real alcoholic. This guy, he must have killed five people in a blackout and then stole a bus, you know, drunk, you know, and drove over half of Canada or something.

You know what I'm saying? Real alcoholic. That must be something intense.

But as I as I read through the big book, being a real alcoholic, according to the big book, means basically only two things. you have a physical allergy towards alcohol and you have a mental obsession towards alcohol. If you have these two things, it's like a a three, you know, three for two deal.

You have a spiritual malady and and most likely likelihood and uh and you're an alcoholic by the definition in the big book. And you know, I definitely have the physical allergy towards alcohol even with some cool bonus features. you know, some extra stuff.

Not everybody has like like long excessive blackouts where I tend to do illegal things in and don't remember at all. It stops being amusing after a while. Um, and and really really extreme like character changes.

That doesn't mean I'm a more more or less of an alcoholic than anybody else. That just mean maybe it helped me get into the rooms of our dogs anonymous a bit sooner. I don't know.

And then, you know, the mental obsession, you know, I believe I don't have the allergy anymore. I I believe I can drink again for any reason. Sometimes I just, you know, conveniently forget and sometimes I just don't care.

Sometimes I just put it in the context, well, I don't I don't care if I'm going to drink any. And sometimes there's no fight and I just drink. I don't I don't even think about it.

And uh so I so I went into a day treatment program and uh and then went into uh service and I I got a sponsor, you know, kind of the the biggest coolest sponsor in the biggest group I was attending and and the only thing that sponsor could could kind of relate to me was his resentments towards, you know, how other people were doing the program. And if if there's one thing I didn't need in Alcoholics Anonymous was how to be resentful, you know, I didn't need a course in that. I'm a freaking expert in being resentful.

You know what I'm saying? That is the thing I knew how to do when I got into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. So, you know, and although I didn't know anything about AA, I didn't know anything about any, you know, politics or any rivalry that might exist in in AA, I knew that I didn't want what this guy had to offer.

So in August of 99, I I went to a guy who basically just worked the steps out of the big book. And that's what we did. We read this big book together and whenever the big book told us to do anything, we just did it or I did it.

And what happened to me is there was a fundamental change inside of me. I had a spiritual awakening. My attitudes, my outlook on life was fundamentally changed.

Uh, and you know, like it's uh, you know, like like some speakers in NA, you know, put it, you know, I had a I I got a new pair of glasses. It was like I had been perceiving reality through, you know, a dark lens or something and the dark lens was just taken away. So reality didn't change at all.

Just my perception of reality. You know, you guys stayed the same. I just stopped perceiving you as you know, I just stopped perceiving you as useless pieces of meat.

You know what I'm saying? >> Because that's how I felt when I was drinking. Uh and uh and so in uh in about um I guess it was in January of 2000 that I started, you know, trying to work with other alcoholics.

And for about 4 to 6 months, I probably read the doctor's opinion and the forward 10 12 times with 10 12 different guys. And I was getting so fed up with it that I used to when I got a new guy, I used to just start like chapter 2 or something because I was so sick of reading the doctor's opinion all the time. You know what I'm saying?

Because I figured out he's going to get drunk anyway. It doesn't matter. But in uh but in August of of probably 2000, I sat through my first fifth step.

And since that time, I've set through more fifth steps than I care to remember. Uh and and kind of since early 2000, I've been working consistently with alcoholics. And that's the experience I have, you know, uh nothing more, nothing less.

Um, and I've been doing I've been doing this AA deal as as to the best of my abilities. I was thinking maybe that um tonight I would talk about my experience, you know, work, you know, doing the actual 12step work, working with newcomers, uh how I work with you guys and uh maybe uh next week talk a little bit about how how to you know what happens when you you know get into a relationship in AA and then you get married and then you have kids and then you go to you know school and then you know all that stuff and trying to do aa alongside with it without you know being divorced or losing your children you know so that's that's been interesting um so maybe you know focus a little bit on the more the second step of the 12 step the second part of the 12 step or um so yeah uh basically uh the way I was sponsored to the big book that comes out of a group in in Washington se Seattle Washington and my sponsor uh was kind of halfway out of that method but but still he kind of used it and and so I I read a text I read I think I read Dr. Bob and the good old-timers if anybody's familiar with that it's kind of a history of a in the context of Dr.

Bob, one of the co-founders of of the fellowship. And uh then there were some hoops along the way I had to jump through in addition to reading the book. I listened to some speaker tapes.

I did some exercises, stuff like that. That's fine. You know what I'm saying?

Uh it definitely resulted in me getting a spiritual awakening. The second spons I got, he was dyslexic. Good luck, you know, and he's Icelandic.

He's not going to read Dr. Bob and the good old times. You know what I'm saying?

So what do I do? I'm sorry. I can't sponsor you.

You can't treat. You know what I'm saying? Can't treat Dr.

Bob in the good old times. So, so what happened and what happened to me and and and a bunch of guys that I was hanging around with at the time that that we started, I guess, working the working the program more out of the book. And just because I think it just because it it felt kind of simpler and there were some the when the when the kind of steps reemerged in Iceland in 1996, this method was pretty rigidly followed just because that seemed to be the only way to survive in a let's say an AA landscape that was somewhat hostile to talk of of higher a higher power.

People used to get kicked out of meetings. Not talking about even they didn't use the word God. They just used the word higher power and they were kicked out of a meeting.

So, you know, there's there was some hostility, let's say, you know, toward people trying to do this book and do this work. And it's hard, you know, to to work the steps and do this this program in the book without approaching or talking about God and higher power as you can imagine. So they they had this uh approach that that worked at the time and as a fellowship grew up that was doing this program I guess the need for such a rigid or such a methodology methodological approach wasn't needed needed as much.

That being said, you know, I have I I I really don't think that's a huge issue exactly how, you know, if we work the steps and we, you know, walk naked backwards through snelling while working the steps or as a part of our fifth step or something, that's fine. You know what I'm saying? Or or we do all kinds of exercise and they've helped a lot of people.

They do, you know, and and they definitely serve a purpose, you know, for some. What I'm just saying, what I found in my experience is that that the simpler I kept it, you know, for me as a sponsor, the easier it got to sponsor guys. Uh so I so basically, you know, uh what I started to do more and more was just sitting down with with guys and reading the big book with me.

And and as I I said in the beginning, whenever the big book told us to do something, we I you know, we did it. Uh I and and that's kind of an approach that worked for me. The you I and as I said, I think the details so as long as we follow these directions don't matter at all.

In my experience, I've met all kinds of guys with all kinds of cool spiritual lives that done this thing in all kinds of ways. Uh but I guess I just what I want to convey is that you know if we feel that's too complicated for us or if we can't kind of reach around those approaches it's okay just to go with the book too. That's fine.

It's not a less cooler way. You know what I'm saying? It's okay just to use the book.

You know it worked fine for a lot of guys I sponsored. um kind of what and what I was what I was kind of experiencing with that is because I'm I'm an arrogant idiot and I you know I used to think for a while that I I I was the greatest sponsor around. So I was kind of afraid that my sponses would mess this beautiful program up as I as I kind of conveyed it.

So, I started out writing a little, you know, little directions, taking stuff out of the big book just so these idiots wouldn't, you know, mess up the program. You know what I'm saying? And after a while of doing that, it kind of added on a little bit.

And I just saw that this was heading in the wrong direction. You know what I'm saying? the directions are in the book and it's fine for me to try to improve it, but for me may maybe, you know, maybe because I'm I'm especially much of an idiot.

I don't know. But for me, it's a slippery slope, you know, trying to improve on the program, you know, getting real specific. Well, you have to do it this way and that way and and kind of taking God out of the equation.

You know what I'm saying? being so specific that my sponses didn't even feel like they had room anymore to do, you know, to follow their insights like the chapter 7 clearly tells us to do when working with newcome. So maybe somebody is supposed to do something, you know, this way and do this thing and and somebody else is supposed to do it another way, you know, like I I I'm not a firm believer in rigidity at this point because I just have noticed it it doesn't work for everybody.

For some it may work really well and that's and maybe their sponsor is getting their, you know, getting that feeling that this guy needs that, but it's not going to work for everybody. And what I've been noticing is that and there's a reason why in the seventh chapter when they talk about working with with others and in the big book in general, they they talk about principles. They talk about principles much more than, you know, at 3:00 a.m.

you're supposed to, you know, do this and do that and, you know, change underwear and stuff like that. It's and and that's because it's much easier to maneuver, you know, within the, you know, just having their principles, spiritual principles to guide us rather than rigid rules about doing this and that. Anyway, so that's kind of been my experience experience with working out of a book.

Uh the the kind of the method I use I think is is less important than you know kind of than the principles I follow. And so what I tried to do and this is an exper there was a point in time I was sponsoring I think 32 guys because nobody else could be a sponsor right I was the best sponsor so like a halfass job from my point it's much better than you guys doing your best because I'm so much better than you you know like so a 10% effort for me is going to be better than your 100% right so that's why I took on guys you know just endless you know what I'm And I didn't return phone calls because, you know, one phone call a week from me is better than 10 from you guys, right? Because I'm so freaking great.

Um, and you know, I found myself collecting sponses, you know what I'm saying? And I was so glad when I got a sponsor and I got him over to me. You know what I'm saying?

It kind of I felt it kind of built upon my status in Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, especially if he had some sponses of his own like that. So, you know, there's no po there's no limit how insane you can get in Alcoholics Anonymous doing stuff like that. and give me something beautiful and and unspoiled and innocent and and great like the 12step and I'll just disfigure it in 10 minutes.

You know what I'm saying? Just completely mess it up. That's fine.

It's a part of the process. Uh, so what I kind of finally got around to is that, you know, through a through a series of of of hard experiences was that I I started after I got after I, you know, worked with a bunch of guys for some time and I had had guys I was sponsoring on a regular basis but were through the work and were working with others. I I only work with one guy at a time and uh and that's and again I'm not saying you know you you burn in hell if you work with new more than one newcomer you know at a time because that's not what I'm saying.

I'm what I'm saying is just after I got to to a place where I was sponsoring a bunch of guys you know that had gone through the work and they don't you know take all all that much time but still it kind of gathers up. I found out that I I didn't have the time to work efficiently with more than one newcomer, you know, and that number might be five for you guys. I don't know.

I'm just relaying my experience. And it was kind of hard to let go of that. You know what I'm saying?

Not to say yes to everybody. And and kind of that arrogance of thinking that my people, you know, best would be better than your very best. You know what I'm saying?

Uh, so when I so when I got to that point, it, you know, I I and I got guys asking me to work with them that I I didn't have time for, I just didn't say no. I said, I'm sorry, I don't have time at this point. You know, I wouldn't do a good job if I would say yes.

And then I would lead them to somebody who could definitely work with me. And that's that worked really well, you know. And the way I want want to go through this program today with guys is I want to meet them two to three times a week physically and uh spend time with them.

I I don't want to spend a lot of time going through, you know, keeping them in the first first three steps. And when I I want to read through it pretty quickly and go through it pretty quickly to get them into that spiritual experience. Again, you know, there are always exceptions and I have to use my insight and I don't know if this is useful for anybody, but but this is my experience that that sometimes I, you know, if they've been around AA for a long time, they know the book better than I do.

They've been in Alcoholics Anonymous for 20 years just relapsing, you know, but they've been here in these rooms. Uh opposed to my nine and a half years. uh you know we we sometimes just we go through and we we do the third step together.

We make sure the AB abs and C's are there and then the guy just starts writing, you know, after the very first time we meet because he needs to get God. He's going to relapse in two days. And a lot of you guys have probably worked with guys like that.

They can't stay sober for a week. You know, they don't have the luxury of of, you know, dilly dating. What's the word here?

Dilly something. >> Beautiful. Thank you.

uh about with this thing. They they need to get some solution and they need to get it as soon as possible. Then they can go over the nuances again, you know, when they when they have the presence of mind and the chance to do so.

Uh and as I said, I I like to spend time with the guys I'm sponsoring. I I really take it seriously to answer all calls, stuff like that. It's so important.

I've gotten I've gotten a bunch of sponsies just from guys who don't answer the phone. So, thank you if you're not answering the phone, but still, you know, it's uh it's I guess it's not really useful for the newcomer. Uh, I returned calls, you know, I and I take it pretty seriously and and it really helped me to understand when I was working with you guys that I I heard this from a speaker and this is something I really used a lot and help has helped me out a lot.

It's if if they care, I have to care, but if they don't care, I can't care. And so my enthusiasm is going to be based proportionally on their enthusiasm. Uh, I was, and I don't know if I talked about this in a meeting before, but I was I was working with a guy for a year who called me.

It was probably an eight-month period. He called me every single day. This was I was probably two years over at the time.

He called me every single day and just he didn't talk about anything, you know, and I could he, you know, he just he he just relayed the events of the day for me without ever in any context of working the steps or or anything spiritual or anything based on his recovery. And that's okay, but it went on for like seven or eight months. And he didn't he didn't do do the steps to the best of his ability.

He had a resentment list and there were two things on the resentment list. I remember uh people and my bank manager and that's it. That was his that was his that was his fifth step.

You know what I'm saying? And this was not a guy who had any problems at processing things. He had a good brain.

He you know he could read all that stuff. Uh he just you know didn't make the effort. And after about a year of this, you know, I I was always, well, he's trying to do something.

He's calling at least and stuff like that. And after about a year, I kind of realized that he was taking up time that I could be spending with other newcomers. And at that time, I was, you know, I was busy in alcoholics and others.

I had a lot of stuff to do. I was saying no to to new guys. So what I basically learned how to tell to tell him was that, you know, our relationship is based kind of on the premises that you you want what I have to give.

You know what I'm saying? And that you show me by a course of action, not by your words, but by a course of action that you care about this thing and that you know you're you're trying. Because the only authority I have in in the lives of the guys I'm working with is how I spend my time.

I don't believe I have any other authority. I I I don't have any authority how how what they work, you know, what their relationships are like or how you know when they stop seeing a girlfriend or start seeing her. You know, that's none of my concern.

I'm not I'm not the CEO of anybody's life and that's not a part of my job description according to you know at least the way I read the big book. Uh I'm there to relay my experience and the only authority the only power I have is how I spend my time. So I try to spend it wisely.

And this is what I I say to guys when I start to work with them. I'm not their friend. if they need to talk about their feelings a lot, I'm probably, you know, without the context of the big book.

I'm not saying I'm going to kick everybody out that mentions the word feelings. I'm just saying if that's all they want to do, if they think I'm like a like a therapist or they expect me to drive them around everywhere and stuff like that without them doing any of the work, you know, they're mistaken. That's not my job.

We have all kinds of, you know, we have Dear John columns in the newspapers they can write to write to. They have probably old friends and their mothers, grandmothers they can talk to if they need a sympathetic ear. You know what I'm saying?

That's not my job to do that. That can't, don't misunderstand, that can't be a part of my job if the if if the guy I'm working with is doing the work. But if he's not and if I sense he's not doing his best.

And mind you, the you know doing doing one's best can mean all kinds of things. You know that totally depends on the guy you're working with. You know sometimes just guys can't ride the force that they're not capable of doing.

So you know that's fine. I'm not really rigid about it. But if I just get the strong feeling repeatedly that that they don't care they don't care about this.

I'm not going to care. And I explain that and I never I never duck anybody as a sponsor. I never say I'm not going to be your sponsor anymore.

I just I just do this little spiel. I just explain what a rel relationship is based on. And it's nothing personal.

And I just explain to them, you know, I don't want to be your friend. I have enough friends. Perhaps in the future a a friendship will evolve and it has done so with many of my spouses, but that's not my primary job.

My primary job is to share the experience of going through this work and getting closer to God so you don't have to drink again. If you don't want to do that, why are we talking? You know, why why are we meeting?

Uh, and I don't try to be anybody that I'm not, you know, I don't try to be like a crusty 50-year-old guy who fought a nan. You know what I'm saying? Being like all hardcore and kind of cr, you know what I'm saying?

Crusty. I just I try to be sincere and tell the truth as I understand it and not to try to be hardcore or you know given tough love or something like that that isn't a part of who I am you know I just tried to be sincere about it and I've and I've said this stuff to a lot of guys with with all kinds of pasts and they never took it badly you know what I'm saying because they I think they just sense I'm being sincere about it uh and and at least It's not to me they've conveyed a sense of of ree rejection because that's not what I'm doing. I'm just kind of explaining, you know, what this relationship is going to be about.

uh kind of um after I after I I I after I kind of say yes to a guy that I'm going to work with him, I I always take one session to introduce what we're going to do and kind of talk somewhat in the in the kind of way of of things like I've been I've been discussing a little bit now And that saves me that has I I I've done that probably for the last 5 years and that's saved me a lot of time, you know, because I tend to if I just sit down and explain in u quite like no uncertain terms what this work is going to be like and how I do this program and what I have to offer. uh it kind of reduces me spending a lot of time on on guys that are not willing to do this or or don't care for the approach I take to this this program. And I'm not saying they have less of quality of sobriety than I have or anything like that.

I'm just saying that that I do the AA program in a specific way and it's not the only way. I'm not saying it's the right way. I'm not, you know, I'm not saying anything like that.

I'm just saying that I'm doing it in a way that has kept me sober. And I know quite a few guys that need the same approach to stay sober. And and what I'm talking about is basic, you know, being firmly based, you know, in God in the big book and and a lot of work with other people.

A lot of work with other people. And uh and so if I explain these things right away and explain my approach, you know, that helps a great deal and that saves everybody a lot of time. Uh and as I said, I I know I'm here in Alcoholics Anonymous to to represent or to not even represent, just to be here with the solution for that guy who's like me that needs the same approach that I do.

Now if if a person needs something else uh she can you know that person can definitely find it in the rooms lockouts anonymous there's enough variety here there's enough you know all kinds of approaches to this deal or or nonapproaches or you know not using a book at all using stokings from Oprah Winfrey and that's beautiful and fine but that's not going to keep me sober that's not going to get me sober and I can't offer that kind of a program you My only purpose when working with a new guy today is to get him involved in the 12step book and get that into the core of his being. Everybody that I've worked with and had has gotten that to the core of their being that the 12step is the foundation stone of their recovery. They don't get drunk.

It's happened of course, but it happens much more rarely. People have to pretty work well at it. If they have this idea of really that that the first thing you turn to when the hits the fan is working with another alcoholic.

If you have that idea really ingrained in you, you're going to work you're going to have to work hard to get drunk. You can of course if you you know if you uh apply yourself, but it's going to take some more work than than before. Uh and and so that's my and so that's my only goal not to make people dependent on me but but to you know direct them towards God not to you know train somebody to do as I say and and you know admire my ways but to you know go and seek out the newcomer and work with them you know and and just try to make and I I remember there was a speaker who said this that that I I was kind of impressed by.

He said, you know, he that he made feeble attempts in working with others. And I really liked that because in the beginning I felt I wasn't worth it, you know, and I saw guys with a lot of sobriety talking all this Pardon my friends, you know what I'm saying? Sounding like they knew what the heck they were talking about and working with others.

And I thought, well, these guys should be the ones, you know, let's leave it up to the experts to work with the newcomer. you know, I'll just I'll just stay here and kind of relax and watch from the sidelines. And and what I learned is that that there's a guy out there who needs my story, who needs my version of the big book.

And he's not going to he's not going to be able to hear the version of the guy with the 35 years, you know, who sponsored 2,000 guys in his variety. He's not going to be able to hear that guy. He needs my version of the big book.

He needs my approach. That's, you know, and and if God sends me somebody to work with, that's that's because he needs to hear my version of this of this big book. Maybe he doesn't need to hear it, you know, for more than a week.

And that's fine, you know, at least for that week, I won't be too obsessed about how I feel all the time, you know, because I'll be thinking about him a little bit, you know, I'll be removed from myself a little bit. and and I kind of realized that that I don't need to be perfect about this, you know, 12step deal. I don't need to say all the right things.

I just need to be sincere and and try to be do a spiritual program and try to follow these principles as best as I can. You know what I'm saying? and and just that, you know, being willing to just a simple thing like greeting a newcomer at a meeting, you know, that's that's, you know, in some groups that's a forgotten art.

You know what I'm saying? You come into a group and there's 50 people there and you feel like a leper because nobody greets you, you know, and uh and that's kind of you know it says the only it doesn't talk big the big book doesn't talk about meetings a lot but they say that in in the in the closing of Bill's story they talk about we we gather frequently so that the newcomer may find the fellowship he seeks and so basically The reason why we're gathering here is because, you know, so for for the newcomer to find a place where he can go to, you know, where he can feel welcome, not preached to or bullied into doing things our way. Nothing like that.

Just being welcome. And and I I I I've just noticed so many times, you know, just the relief, you know, in a face when you just walk up to up to him and say, "Welcome, welcome to our meeting. Good to have you here." Nothing deep, you know what I'm saying?

Nothing lifechanging, life shattering, nothing that's going to rock their world, you know, make them find God now, you know, just being friendly, you know, just be and and that goes a long way, you know, and that's an excellent start. Every every meeting I go to I if I don't can't do it before the meeting I try to do it after the meeting to meet at least the new guys that are there and I give them my number and you know I give out 100 numbers and I get probably one or two phone calls something like that which means I give out a you know give out my phone number a lot but but it's it's the thing that works and and about you know getting 12step work getting spawns I don't I I don't believe sitting timidly at the sidelines like a like a 15year-old at a school dance hoping somebody's going to ask her to dance. You know what I'm saying?

I don't believe in that when doing 12step work. I go out and I I go and seek it out because I really need the 12step work. That's a foundation stone of my recovery, you know, and I go to I go to meetings and I I seek it out.

When I when I needed a drink, I wasn't timid about that. I never was. I broke the laws.

I was rude to people. I stole. I wrecked a whole lot of relationship because I needed that and I just went out and got it.

Of course, I don't need to be, you know, that crash when seeking out Felberg today, but I don't there's no reason to be timid about it. There's no reason to wait until somebody discovers me. You know, I have to go out there and and seek it.

And you know, it's really easy in Alcoholics Anonymous today to seek it out. There's a lot of meetings all over the place. All kinds of service opportunities and a lot of newcomers out there that are waiting for your story, not some old-timer story.

You know what I'm saying? They're waiting for your story, your version of the Big Bird. They they need it.

They're not going to get sober unless they hear it or something like it. So, so that thing about some people being experts and doing that, I I really don't believe in that. I just believe in if we're sincere and we we make ourselves available, that's, you know, it's going to keep us sober and it's going to be of some use in this fellowship.

Uh, I always explain to the guys I'm working with why I'm working with them. And that's outlaid in this chapter 7, too. I explain that I'm not doing this for you.

You know, maybe on my good days I am perhaps, you know, if I'm lucky enough, but I'm doing this to keep sober. I'm I'm doing this to stay sober. That's what I said in the beginning when I came here.

You know, I'm I'm here to stay sober, you know, because this through experience, I have found that nothing works as efficiently against taking the first drink as working with another alcoholic or trying to carry this message, you know, and uh the beautiful thing is I don't get paid by results in Alcoholics Anonymous. If you all think what I said tonight is a bunch of crap and what a strange Icelandic version of the big book this is. You know what I'm saying?

That's fine. It really doesn't matter because I'm sincerely trying to carry this message to the best of my abilities. And I I get and it's kind of like I don't know if that goes for for the United States, but we make fun of government employees in in Iceland.

because I'm a government employee, I feel entitled to do so here. Uh, and it's kind of like being a government employee. I don't get paid by results.

I just have to show up and spend the time there. You know what I'm saying? And in Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, that's what it is.

I can work with a guy for two months or whatever, you know, see him three times a week and and if he gets struck, you know, it doesn't matter. It doesn't reduce the quality of the sobriety I got from him. You know what I'm saying?

And when I'm feeling cynical, which occasionally happens, you know, I just view the the 12stster book as as kind of, you know, getting as much sobriety from the newcomer as I can before he gets drunk. This is of course very cynical, but uh and uh and if you stay sober, that's great, but I need to work with a new guy, you know? I need to do it and I don't do it for money.

I don't do it for for prestige. Oh my god. Not prestige and alcoholics anonymous.

Uh there's no hidden agenda. I'm not going to the guys I work with. I'm not going to ask them to sign a you know what I'm saying?

Sign a loan or I'm not going to put it in my resume. I'm not going to get a discounted target for working with a newcomer. You know what I'm saying?

There's nothing I get from it except my own recovery. And that's the biggest thing that you're right. That's the biggest thing in my life today.

If I don't have my recovery, my relationship with God, I'm going to get drunk, you know. So, if somebody's if somebody's working with you, he's not doing it, you know, for any hidden agenda. Hopefully, he's just doing it for his own recovery.

And that's it. And you don't have to give him anything back. If you can try to, you know, and if if the message works, try to carry it to the next newcomer.

That's it. There's nothing else. There's no hidden agenda in Alcoholics Anonymous.

And isn't that a rare thing today? You know what I'm saying? There's no there's no switching bait.

You know, there's no trick involved. It's just it is what it is. So, is that good enough?

I uh Yeah. Thanks for having me again and being here. Some of you at least.

Uh what what I was trying to focus on a bit the last time I was here was um it's kind of the the more practical aspects of my experience about working with others. Uh the 12th step in the big book is um having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps. We tried tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

So basically the tough steps are are three parts and uh I just want to kind of reiterate that that I I believe that you know a rigorous 12step work is the best kept hidden secret in Alcoholics Anonymous. I think that's I think that uh you know we're not doing it on a grand scale in Alcoholics Anonymous and I think that's why many of us relapse. I think a lot of the reasons why people have a hard time later in recovery is because they uh don't work with others.

Uh I am basing this on my experience uh working with a lot of people with with time. I've sponsored a lot of people with time like you know more than 10 years more than 15 years and uh and they've this is back home in Iceland and this they've come to me because they you know guess you know I guess because I was I was enthusiastic about the program and I was enthusiastic about this fellowship and that's that's something they felt they needed and and sometimes these guys I I worked with had you know had achieved the the spiritual experience maybe not working through the book like we've been talking about you know step by step but they achieved it through various you know means their god as they understood them guided them through this process you know there's more than one way to skin a cat and that's fine but the problem they were having is they didn't know or didn't have any methods or means to transmit the program. And I I don't know if we talked about this before, but it's hard if you if you like do your seventh step, you know, by losing a part of your finger somewhere, you know, and then you do the fifth step in a workshop in India somewhere through, you know what I'm saying?

So if you do this work through like a nonlinear process, it's really hard to transmit that. It's really hard to send that responsory you have to India to a workshop. You know what I'm saying?

You can't go and chop everybody's finger off to give them their sevenstep experience or the sixstep experience. So these these people I I was working with the main thing I think I I managed to give them was not not necessarily that vital spiritual experience but the or the access to that or the means to go to that vital spiritual experience but but more just a method to work with a new guy. you know something because it's hard it's hard to meet with a newcomer and you know and have nothing concrete to give him and you don't know you don't know how to give him what you've got.

You don't know you and and and you don't have anything organized or concrete to relate to him. So you end up telling them a lot of, you know, phrases, a lot of stuff from self-help books or various you're reading at the time and a lot of stuff from Oprah Winfrey if you like to watch that. And those are all those are all beautiful things, but those are but usually they they're not, you know, the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And and just, you know, with with these guys I worked with, just when they had that kind of when they had these tools to work with, they all expressed such relief not having to be vitty and deep all the time. They could just go to the book. You know what I'm saying?

And not having to watch Oprah anymore unless they wanted to, of course. Uh it's so simple. The program's just in the book.

And we can use that and then we use our experience of course uh and that's a really easy kind of foolproof way to transmit the spiritual experience. uh I I think another aspect of the 12step is or working with others is it's one of these interesting things and I don't know if I if if I said this before I say these things to a lot of people so I might be repeating myself but I hope not I hope not uh that that it's interesting it it this is the most potent approach we have to help ourselves working with others and alcohol is synonymous. But when we get sick of our alcoholism, you know, or the spiritual malady part of our alcoholism, we we feel we're not worthy to work with others, right?

We get that feeling that, well, I'm so messed up. You know, I'm feeling like this, I'm feeling like that, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that. So, you know, I start feeling like I'm not worthy or I shouldn't be working with others, right?

Because I have to I can't transmit what I haven't got. So, you know, and and sometimes that's the way I understand this. And so, I feel I need to get well in order to get well, right?

Because the most potent tool I have is to work with others to get well. But I'm denying myself to do that, right? I I worked in oncology.

I I was I was I was helping u people that were pretty sick with cancer. And and none of them said, "Oh, don't give me any medication for the cancer until the cancer gets a little bit smaller." You know what I'm saying? None of them said that.

They wanted the medication, right, to get the cancer smaller. They didn't wait, well, I just want to get this tumor down to a reasonable size on my own here and then you can give me the the medication, right? No, that never happened.

The same with pain, you know. Let me get this pain here. Wait until the pain goes down a little bit.

Then I I'm going to be worthy to get the pain medication. Nope. No.

Just give me that stuff. You know what I'm saying? I'll take it.

But for some strange reason, I I'd get to thinking, you know, that I need to, you know, to get better to be able to do the things I need to do to get better. That makes no sense. But I don't know if you've experienced this or not.

I've noticed this throughout the years that this is a pretty common insanity with us and it's it's an insanity because if we've gone through the work we can transmit it, you know, uh and and I have I I I know no more potent way to get better if I'm starting to get spiritually sick than work with another alcoholic. And this is not rocket science, you know. I don't I I do not need to by osmosis transfer to him some divine spiritual energy, you know.

I just need to give him some experience and some information. That's it. Of course, you know, if I'm walking on water, maybe that'll help, but that's certainly not a prerequisite to working with others.

Most of us will be drunk if it would be right. At least I I have a couple of days each year that I don't walk on water. I don't know about you guys.

Um so you know it's an interesting phenomenon. We get sick and we feel we're not worthy. Uh and and I think like I talked about before uh once the idea that the main that the foundation, you know, stone in in in my recovery is ingrained in me and once I've seen that happen to other people around me, they hardly get drunk.

They hardly get drunk. If that's the first thing they turn to when hits the fan, when life starts happening and we start feeling that way or the this way, you know, if that's the first thing we turn to, we turn to God and we turn to working with others, you know, then if that's your initial response to hardship, I think you're in a good place according to my experience. You know, if our first reaction is to, oh, I'm going to change my sponsor, change a home group, change, you know, my job, change a geographical location, you know, talk to this guru or that guru, talk to this speaker I heard there because he's the only one qualified enough to help me because I'm so freaking special and complicated.

>> That's all well and it could be. It could be you should change your jobs. It could be you should do that stuff, you know.

I don't know. But the initial thought at least for me is go and working with others you know and hopefully that guru that I talk to somewhere is going to tell you know why are you calling me why aren't you trying to reach a newcome and work with him if you have that solution of course if you haven't experienced the spiritual experience if you haven't experienced the awakening if you haven't gone through the work you know I suggest you try to do so and check it out at least you know what whatever we got to lose. I always say I I I I always try to greet all the newcomers I meet in meetings and talk to them and and it and if I you know talk about being chronic relapser or relapsers having a tough history and then I ask them well have you gone through the the work in the book and they say no and I say well that's great great news it really is and I just say that and they're like yeah they haven't tried it at least they haven't you know at least At least they have that option still open.

They can check that out, you know, and and then and then there's hope, you know, there's hope. If they if they haven't tried to go through the work, well, that's that's a it's not an illogical thing to do, right? After all, you know, our fellowship was named after the book.

This is the basic text of our fellowship. you know, it's not it's not a really original or strange idea to kind of read through the book and follow the directions. So yeah, I I and I I was going to I was going to use this time a little bit to to talk about my experience in in trying to trying to work with others and trying to do this work while you know with life happening around and and of course my experience in Alcoholics Anonymous was that I and I told you this last time that I didn't He had a lot of sponses to work with in the beginning.

And it did not work for me to sit around, you know, on the sidelines like a like a shy 16-year-old waiting for the newcomers to pick me up, right? I had go out there aggressively, not aggressive to the newcomer, but aggressively to myself, you know, and go one step beyond what I dare to do. and you don't greet the newcomer, you know, and and it's and it's not really it's not really complicated.

Just wherever I am, if if there's a new guy there, I try to, you know, I try to greet him and I try to follow directions in the chapter 7, find out all about him if I can. I give him my number and and then I kind of use my good judgment how much I talk or not. You know, sometimes you get that feeling that that guy doesn't want to be approached more.

And I'm respectful to that, of course, you know, uh, and but but if I don't approach him that initial time and greet him and, you know, start a little conversation, I never know that because some of them are really, you know, dying for some contact. Some of them have been to a lot of meetings and nobody's talked to them. You know, nobody shook their hand and that's why they're feeling that's why they're looking kind of, you know, put off.

That's why they're looking kind of scary to approach me. And so, and I know I know I was I was when I got sober, I thought I was a dangerous guy. I was on probation.

You know what I'm saying? My head shaved. I was a big guy, you know, with a with a kind of a dark past.

I felt, you know, and I looked at any everybody like they beat up my mother yesterday, you know. I thought that was kind of a cool with with this sensitive face. I can't imagine how I thought >> how I thought that would work out but still you know and and then I stood around these rooms you know with a completely shaped head and you know I was like a large Russian winter overcoat.

You know what I'm saying? Looking all, you know, trying to look all mean. And so it's hard to approach guys like that.

And then if somebody would would come and approach me, I was so freaking scared. I I I I would usually, you know, answer them in an arrogant, disrespectful manner, but I still really appreciate them coming, greeting me, you know what I'm saying? I really appreciate it.

And they weren't pushing anything. They weren't paddling anything. They were just simply fitting me welcome, you know, and and you know, I'm here if you want to.

And and that's what what I that's what I tried to do and how I tried to approach it. And I I don't know, a newcomer coming into a meeting and not being not being greeted and not pay being paid attention to. Uh that's just an atrocity in in my mind.

I have no tolerance for that. You know, I I just think it's it's horrible if that happens. It's horrendous.

And I don't know what the heck the people in that meeting are doing. God bless them. Because if we're not doing that, if we're in a in a meeting and we're not and we have some time, we have some solution, if we're not paying attention to the guy, what are we doing and why are we there?

What's the purpose of the meeting? What is our primary purpose? Uh and I felt that when I when I came over here, I I you know, I felt discomfort trying to you know, I haven't have a teeny bit of an accent if anybody noticed.

You know, I I had a discomfort going up to the newcomers initially that introduced themselves, you know, who am I? Who who do I think I am? You know what I'm saying?

Like, am I trying to be a big shot here greeting the newcomers? You know, but it's not about that. It's not about being anything like that.

It's just what this is what I do when I'm an alcoholic synonymous. This is where my focus is. Not because I'm so holy and you know, I have so great ideals.

just because experience has taught me that nothing works as well for my alcoholism as having that focus, right? It's not it's nothing more complicated than that. Sometimes I do it, you know, for for lofty ideals, but you know, nine out of 10 times I just do it because I'm there.

I do it because I know it works and I do do it because I know nothing works better. Uh well anyway in the beginning I didn't get a lot of sponses. I had I didn't have a family.

I I I was I I started uh I was working a job with flexible hours you know stuff like I was working at I I I moved back home you know stuff like that. So I had a lot of time to go to a lot of meetings and I was in a meeting you know every day I was out there. You know what I'm saying?

It's like it's kind of like being a deputent or something. you know, you just you're just out there and you're you know, you're getting to know the people. You're you're getting be acquainted with the place.

You're kind of learning about the culture, you know, different personalities, different clicks and aa, all that stuff. And so I I could do that and that's how I did my 12step book. You know, I went to a lot of I didn't have a lot of sponses.

I just participated a lot in AA. I went to the coffee shop before and after that I, you know, talked to the new guys there, you know, I talked to my friends that were trying to get sober or stuff like that. That's how I got the 12step book done.

Going to a lot of meetings trying to approach the newcomer in the best manner or the, you know, best way I could. And then, you know, people around me needing help and that worked for me. I was fine.

I I don't need to be a sponsor to to stay sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. I just need to be sincerely trying to work with or help another alcoholic. I I don't necessarily need to be a sponsor.

Often that's kind of a logical consequence of reaching out is you end up as a sponsor. You know what I'm saying? But at least according to my experience, that's not a that's not a necessity.

The main thing is I'm s sincerely trying to reach out there as I as I as I as I got sober for a longer time as my spiritual experience kind of kicked in and it really kicked in after working with others for about eight months something like that six eight months after I've been working with others pretty consistently for that time that's where I got my real you know strong spiritual experience After doing that for a while, I started picking up some guys to work with, you know, and then more guys and and I kept going to the meetings, you know, and I kept going to detoxes, I kept going to treatment centers, all that stuff. Uh then I started, you know, college and I met my wife and that changed a little bit how I did things, right? I couldn't attend as many meetings because they're on they're they're on a fixed schedule and all that stuff, but I was working a lot with newcomers and that seemed to increase.

Uh what I learned is that it's it's it is really important for me to keep some sort of balance in my life, you know, and and for me to follow my third step. what I sincerely believe is God's will in my life. And I sincerely believed that God wanted me to go to college.

I'm not saying that's God's will for you guys. I'm just saying I believe that's God's will for my for me at that time, right? And I sincerely believe that God wanted me to be in this relationship and to you kind of be the best boyfriend and later, you know, fiance and husband that I could be.

And so that's what I did. And I still did AA because if I didn't if I wasn't doing AA, if I wasn't doing my 12step work, that would not work, right? I wouldn't have the power.

I wouldn't have the spiritual health to be that guy, you know? And so, you know, that continued. I continued I I did a four-year degree, uh, undergraduate degree.

I I continued with my wife when I was uh when we had we had been together for three years and I had been through three years of school. I we had a kid, you know, didn't plan on it specifically, you know, but clearly had a kid, so he must have done something. Uh and uh and that again changed things, you know.

I wasn't going out to the bar with my friends, you know, so I didn't have to stop doing that. But I I was doing a lot of a work. I was involved with the Alano Club.

I was on the board of directors there for for three years. I was doing general service work. Well, at least what we refer to as general service in Iceland.

And uh and I was sponsoring a lot of guys. And I was always working with newcomers. And and what kind of changed for me at the time is at that point I had enough guys and I know we talked a little bit about that last time but I had enough guys stay in soap for enough time that and they were call they kept calling me they didn't call me any every day we weren't meeting a lot although we I met them occasionally if needed be but they wanted spiritual accountability they wanted continued sponsorship in their recovery and so they stayed in touch a bit and as they g as those guys because what tends to happen if guys do the work from the book they they tend to stay sober.

Isn't that strange? So so gradually after 3 four years I started having quite a few guys that I was working working with on a continuous basis and that reduced the time I had to work with new guys. Uh, I felt though that if I didn't work with a newcomer too, I I stagnated a bit.

You know, if I was only doing them the work with the guys that that were already in the program, it it kind of I think my experience is that it limited my view a bit and I I felt I was stagnated a bit. So, I always tried to keep one new guy I was working with, but that's it. Since that time, I've only worked with, you know, one new new newcomer each time.

Um, and it just kind of came about as I as I had, you know, as we had a baby and the other sponses kind of grew a little bit in numbers. Uh, necessity kind of forced me to to go that route. That may change or may not change in the future, but that's uh where it ended up.

And I t I think I talked about the reasons for that. the last time. Um, now having a having a kid and trying to be the father I thought God would want me to be, that also meant time, right?

All this stuff means time and that means time I was doing something else with before and in my case that something else was mostly spent in alcoholics and uh and so I I was fortunate to the point that you know I I got my 12step home delivered at that point right and I have quite a few sponses that that got their sobriety with my son in their lap Right. My sons probably heard the big book read more often than most a he was like a really Buddhaike child. So he would just sit there like for the first 18 months and not do anything.

So that was pretty convenient and that was, you know, clearly something I needed since, you know, since that's the way it was. And so I started and so I started more to invite the guys I was working with into my house, into my home. And I feel that has a real spiritual significance that they're a part of what I do.

Uh, you know, they're sitting there often with my son in their lap. You know what I'm saying? We're reading the book.

They're in my home. They're in my sanctuary, if you will. They're they're there where I you know spend time with my wife and you know where any you know spiritual truth about me is going to be quick to surface right and I I just think it has a lot of meaning to to invite a newcomer to that place and it just says a lot I think to him to how much he he matters to me you know not maybe personally at the time although that may come but just how much it matters to me to be working with a new guy.

You know, it's a part of who I am. It's a part of my family. It's a part of keeping everything together.

I'm well aware of I know what kind of guy gets drunk. I know what type of alcoholic go outs and gets drunk. It's a type like me, right?

That's the type. And I'm I'm aware of this. I'm aware of that.

If I wouldn't be sober, I'm the kind of alcoholic and I can say this and it's true. If I'm not sober, I I lose most of the things I I have today. And would it would happen pretty quickly because of the way I drink.

And that's just the truth. Uh so, you know, having the newcomer, having the guys I work with as a part part of my my close environment, inviting them to my home, I I felt that's really important. Now, I've been doing that for quite a few years.

And, you know, there have been one or two guys I haven't invited to my house right away because of because of their history, you know, and because I know my wife wouldn't feel comfortable with them being there. But always as you know, as the and and that's just me being respectful of, you know, my family basically being considerate. But and and you know many times I'll maybe meet the guy the first time someplace else if if I know my family's going to be at the house but you know eventually it always happens that they start coming there you know and they meet they meet my family you know they maybe you know eat dinner with us or you know they take a ride with me picking up my son from preschool or you know you know, whatever.

That's and and I I I and I just kind of really I I kind of I'm really fond of that process. And the guys I've been working with for a longer time, they, you know, they, you know, I I do stuff with them. I was staying at one spons uh when I got back to Iceland.

He he wasn't there, but you know, he lent me his house for a week. And while I was there, I was staying with another family and and that that guy and his wife and his two kids, that guy's my sponsor. He's been my sponsor for eight years now.

Uh and I've had probably three three sponses, you know, that visit have visited me while I'm here in the US. Uh, and I have probably seven or eight guys that call me on a regular basis. And uh and that just that's a pretty for me that's a pretty unique feeling, you know, not because they're addicted to my opinion or you know that I tell them how to run their lives because that's not a part of my job description, but rather that we have a relationship that that kind of matters to us and you know they know I know their and they they know me and they can trust that I'll I hopefully most of the time will be coming from you know a specific angle but I'll be talking hopefully be talking about this program when they when they call and that's the you know that's the direction and that I I know what my my job is and my job is not to advise them in their relationships or have an opinion about the psychiatric medication they're taking.

My job is solely about sharing my experience with the work in this book, you know, and if they like, you know, if they need their teeth fixed or, you know, they need rel relationship advice, there are professionals who can do that or like we talked about before, they can call their mom or their grandmom or whatever, you know, people who can have an opinion about that stuff. I don't I don't I might have experiences on the subject and how to approach the solution, but I'm not going to tell them how to run their lives. Uh it was pretty interesting for me transitioning from uh from you know having I had a kid I graduated from college in 2004 and I had two years where I was I was working I did some exercise I took care of my family and I did AA and it was a pretty peaceful period you know I two year what I do is I try to, you know, my chosen profession is at least feebly trying to help other people.

So that's basically what I was doing all day. You know, I was trying to do that at work and then I got home and home and I was trying to do that. I got guys at my home most of the time, most nights and I had I had a home group.

I had one home group and and that's the way I've kept it for many years. And that's and that's basically I you know, since and like I talked about in the first 18 months, two years, I was all over the place because I could right after, you know, I I started doing other things too, focusing on other things. I that changed for me and since that time I've had one home group and I have I usually I I only attend one AA meeting a week because there's there's nothing specific for me that goes on in an AA meeting that I you know that I need on on a on a let's say more frequent basis than once a week.

There's a fellowship, there's some accountability, you know, there's of course social relationship, all that stuff. uh and relationships that mean a lot to me. But but the real stuff I need I get from working with a new guy, you know, or get working with guys, you know, one one-on-one preferably if I can.

And and so that's where my main focus is. And I just I I never go to meetings just to go go to meetings. I go to meetings if I need to get some 12step work done, you know?

And um so my focus is not on going to a lot of meetings and it can't and like I talked about it can't be an excellent rate to do a lot of 12step work you know but if I'm just going there to hang out there my time is probably at at least now at at at where I presently am in my life my time is probably better spent doing something else. Uh if I talk a little bit about my home group, my my and that's another interesting thing about working with others is how important it is to have access to newcomers and to have a group that's actively doing you know work and actively participating in that. I would have a hard time being a part of a group where I was the only one greeting the newcomer unless I was like in a remote town somewhere and so we only you know meeting in town.

I think it's really important how my home group presents itself to, you know, to do in the 12step work and that's really important to me. We started we started our meeting back home. It's a ma man's meeting.

It's called men among men. That's a direct translation. We started it on uh December 20th in 99.

About two and a half years after we started, we were 15 guys who started it. uh about two and a half years. We were 180 guys in that meeting and we were all young guys, you know, ages maybe 18, sometimes we had like younger guys than that up to 40 maybe and all full of testosterone and it's just it was a beautiful thing.

You can imagine 180 guys doing the serenity prayer. You could hear it miles away, especially young guys, you know, and and all all kind of still preaching fire about the big book, right? We knew we knew the truth and you didn't, right?

That was kind of our approach there for a while. uh and and we did a lot of experimentation in our group and you know our uh in the beginning what we used to do and and I guess still sometimes occurs this is a this is an open discussion meeting and it's not really an open discussion meeting because we have a have a chair who chooses a leader and the leader is always from the group he speaks for 10 and 10 to 15 minutes then he chooses guys he wants to hear from and he and and and our conscience has decided that we don't want to hear from anybody that the leader doesn't know approximately what he's going to say. Right?

So there's no rolling of the dice there. The leader is going to know that the guy he's picking up is going to carry the message. And if he chooses somebody else, that's fine, but it's not going to be fun being him for the next few weeks at our meeting.

And he's going to get to hear it at our business meeting. I'm not saying this is the right approach. And I'm just saying this is the approach we take, right?

And has worked for us because what used to happen is that we used to clap and holler people down from the podium. And you can imagine being a relatively new guy, you know, with uh with a history like some of us had with a lot of drug use, being in jail, all that stuff. And you come into a meeting and there are 180 guys there and you know some of them from the streets or from wherever you are.

And then you go up and you try to do the stuff you did you were taught in therapy to do. Share like you did in therapy about your day and about your car breaking down. And they start hollering at you like after 30 seconds.

Shut up. Sit down. You know what I'm saying?

Stuff like that. And then if you keep on going after about 2 minutes they're going to start to clap. Somebody's going to start to clap and then somebody else is going to join in.

And then after about 30 seconds, you you have like 150 guys clapping while you're trying to share your message. Talking about tough love, right? So I know uh I know some of us miss the drama involved in doing this, you know.

So when I you know but but we we we rarely do this now because we felt it was unfair to a newcomer you know we felt this was okay to do with guys who should should know better right but we felt this was kind of violent to a newcomer who didn't know any better and was sincerely trying to do his best carrying this message kind of kind of harsh you know so we rarely do this now and the way we we we try to keep the message pretty clear in our meeting is through the method we we I was telling you about but we have a leader who is who's from the the core of the group means he's been in the group for one year at a minimum most of the time uh and uh and he knows what the guys he's taking up to the podium he knows what they're going to say now like with every every big group what happened is that we had a lot of groups kind of uh breaking off from our group, joining other groups, starting other groups, starting other allo clubs. I think there are there are probably four LN O clubs now in Iceland and uh and the first one was started in 2000 and uh um and doing and and so we had as I said we have have a a lot of breakoff groups and our and our meeting our mammoth of a meeting it it went down and it's now about 100 guys something like that uh 80 to 100 guys and and it was kind of interesting and and it has to do with working with others a bit I guess because I I know you know some some members of the home group kind of were scared about that. You know what I'm saying?

What's going on? Are we doing something wrong? All that stuff.

Why aren't we popular anymore? Uh, and you know, I get I guess I like my group a little bit better after it got down because it got to be a little bit of a freak show that people showed up in to see kind of a show to see somebody being, you know, clapped down from the podium and all that stuff. But the the main thing I think is important about our group that the guys in our group do a lot of 12step work and and we don't spend the time, you know, the 10 the those precious 10 minutes before and after the meeting hucking and kissing each other, you know, and and we talk about this all the time in our business meeting.

you know, if somebody if somebody old, you know, that's been in the group for a long time comes up to me right after the meeting, I'm just gonna duck and push him away, right? Because I need to go after that new guy. I need to go after the new guy who's trying to get out of there before somebody approaches them.

But still, he wants somebody to approach him, but still he wants to get out of there, right? So, what we do is we line up, you know, where the exit from the meeting is. We line up there, probably 10 of us, 15 of us, something like that, when we say the serenity prayer.

So, nobody gets out without talking to us. And I can guarantee if you go to that meeting, you might not understand the message, but you're going to be talked to and you're going to be greeted and you're going to be given some contact information and you're going to be you're going to be given the option, the possibility to get to this work if you want to. And there's going to be people there that are doing it and have been doing it for a long time.

and some haven't been doing it for a long time but are in enthusiastic about this program. We we had the experience with this that uh that we used to and we always lose some of the guys. They come to our meeting, they get the spiritual experience, they get all riled up, and then a year passes, something like that, a year and a half, and then they get vice and all mature, and then they don't want to be in our meeting anymore because it's so immature and and they don't have the tolerance towards the guys that are now like they were a year ago, right?

Because they're so, you know what I'm saying? and they're so intolerant. They're so like this and like that so preachy and all that stuff.

Well, and it's been interesting and I know most of us who stayed in this group have the attitude that that this is uh this seems to be a somewhat unavoidable side effect of getting a spiritual awakening. you know, well, you know, we do everything we can to help these guys get the power that propels the universe into their lives. Well, it's going to have a small effect on their emotional life.

They're going to get a bit riled up. They're going to get passionate. They're going to get enthusiastic.

It's a beautiful thing. It might not always be pretty. You know, it might come with some uh side effects that, you know, aren't always nice.

But that's going to go away and that's going to pass. And if we're not there, if we're not there to role model how to go past that stage, and I'm not saying it's a bad stage. I'm just saying usually we we kind of move beyond that after a while.

Uh then what's the point? You know what I'm saying? How is aa going to move beyond just being there being, you know?

So, so I really love that stage because I I spent a lot of time in that stage. I'm still kind of, you know, and I'm still enthusiastic and riled up about this deal. Uh, and I just I don't know.

I just have a lot of tolerance towards that. And I think it's important that that we do as a fellowship, you know, that that there's a lot of tolerance to to be being on fire towards Alcoholics Anonymous, to having passion, to being enthusiastic. Although other people might call those very same things being judgmental and arrogant.

You know what I'm saying? I don't believe like I don't see it like that. I don't see it like that at all.

And I think the main thing is that we're sincerely trying to work with other alcoholics. And that's it. That's what that's that's the matter.

And the thing is, you know, I've seen a lot of guys go through that stage and then rewalk into it so much that they completely, you know, leave the things that used to keep them sober, that kept them sane, you know, leave the very core of what gave them that, you know, that passion. And that's not a pretty thing either, you know, to see a light go out like that. That's a that's a goddamn shame.

And it's sad. It really is, you know. Um so just I don't know.

Yeah. Um what what happened then is uh we came here to the United States and uh and you know I I did a lot of work in Alcoholics Anonymous in Iceland and in in kind of the if I may might say the the more big book leaning crowd in Iceland. It's not there's not a lot of sobriety.

So I had a lot of sobriety you know and I was kind of I and a lot of other people of course were functioning as an old-timer still then I come to America and I have like eight years that's like calm >> that's not even warming up right that's hardly a good start uh just a little bit but maybe you know and I didn't have guys lining up again I was again in the same position as I was a newcomer I was getting used to that. You know what I'm saying? I had my little home group.

I'd been there, you know, since we started it. A lot of 20 newcomers per meeting. It was not a problem at all to get a newcomer, you know.

Uh and they came the 12step came through home delivery to my house like I explained, you know, and now I was here and I was starting graduate school, you know, and we were in a new country, no support system, no babysitting, nothing like that, another continent. didn't know anybody here. Uh so I couldn't do the same thing as I did when I was when I was new, right?

I couldn't go to two meetings a day. Well, I couldn't do that and stay in graduate school and stay married to my wife. You know what I'm saying?

All at the same time. So what ended up happening for me is I was pretty concrete about the 12step. And as you pro hopefully hear, I'm passionate about it.

I think it's the most important thing in my recovery. And I used to count my 12 steps. I used to take one session like this and that was one hour.

If I met a newcomer, that was one hour. If I did, you know, other kinds of service work, that was one hour. I used to do at least 30 of those every month for probably four or five years, probably more than that, but I was counting it.

I could I could do an Excel spreadsheet for you guys because I counted it, you know, for that time. Yeah. So, I always did more than 30 and I wasn't doing that.

I wasn't doing that when I when I got here. I'm not doing that now. Um, and it was quite kind of a good lesson for me that although the 12step is so important, you know, God is more important.

And I believe that God wanted me to come here. I believe God wanted me to, you know, be active in my my graduate, you know, pursue my graduate degree. I believe God wanted me to stay married to my wife.

And that meant doing less 12step work than I was used to. What I did is I became active as as a GSR. I tried to, you know, get into treatment facilities.

I and I always and I tried to go to as many meetings as I could. Sometimes that was only one meeting a week, but I I always tried to reach out reach out when I could and I always tried to do my very best and I put more emphasis on my meditation. I do, you know, I do 20 20 minutes of meditation a day.

Uh I have a sponsor. I I I'm I'm more responsible. I guess doing less 12step work makes the other it gives me less leeway to mess around with the other parts of the program like my meditation.

I really I can't really miss out on meditation these days and then I'm stir crazy. Uh I I need to be spiritually accountable, you know. And what kept me going is that I went into general service here and that's how I got to meet a lot of people.

That's how I got acquainted a little bit, you know, knew what meetings to go to, stuff like that, you know, and I had sponsors, you know, sponses I was sponsoring still, like I told you guys, a lot of guys back home. And and then I just continued greeting people here. I continued giving out my phone number and I started to get some guys to work with.

And now for probably the last just over a year maybe year and year and a half maybe I've pretty consistently been been working with somebody you know us maybe it you know three weeks two weeks pass in between something like that like that and then I I'll get a new guy. Uh, but it's not as much as I used to do and I'm still doing okay and I'm still sober and I still feel in touch with my God as I understand. And I guess my experience with this is that I'm I'm trying to I'm I'm trying to do the best I can to to do this deal and I'm trying to follow God's direction in my life as I think he will have me be.

And I guess my my just I want to share that I don't need to limit myself just looking at the 12step thinking well I can't do 30 hours a day. I'm not going to do this. You know what I'm saying?

I my God beyond that. You know because this is about my relationship with God. Mo most of my experience suggests that that that's directly in proportion with how much 12step work I'm doing.

But not always though. and and I used to be more concrete about it, you know, I used to be more, I guess, rigid about it. My experience now suggests that what what's most important to me for me is to be doing God's will, you know, is to be in that third step and and blindly doing 12step work without God is not going to, you know, keep me completely safe or unharmed because this is about God.

Aa is not about AA, you know. A is about approaching God in whatever way I think my God needs to be approached at that time. Whatever that means for me.

Uh that's what keeps me sober. Aa does not keep me sober. The power that propels the universe keeps me sober.

That's the only thing that can keep me sober. This power is clearly indicating me to me today as he's been doing for the last nine and a half years that I should be active in alcoholics and you know uh so my experience suggests that that the amount of 12step work I do is more related to doing my very best than than the concrete amount. Uh and and again, I don't I I I not a lot of the guys I've been working with here seem to end up sober.

You know, one of them just relapsed last week. And it's a beautiful thing, you know. Then I get to re, you know, wrestle some more sobriety out of it.

This is good. I'm again working with a newcomer, right? Uh so and and so and that completely pro you know validates my experience that I don't get paid paid by results in alcoholics an amounts I get paid by the hour no matter what the results are it doesn't m it doesn't matter I get paid by the hour >> oh yeah I've I've tried all kinds of things you know and there was a time in my sobriety if you wen't weren't doing 20 minutes in the morning and 20 times in the evening, you weren't so.

That's just the way it was for me. It's a little bit rigid. I have that tendency just a teeny bit.

Um, then I had some kids and all that changed, right? Um, now I'm more flexible. Yeah, I've tried all kinds of methods.

Now I just sit down and I watch my breath, you know, and I do I do the morning meditation from the big book. I review my day. I pray for the stuff guidance I need to pray for stuff like that and then I sit down and well I'm I'm I'm sitting all the time you know and then I just I just try to try to watch my breath and pay payment pay attention.

I read a I read a a autobiography by a by a Buddhist monk who who he had he had enlightenment at the age of 68 and lived to the ripe old age of 120 years old and and he still call his called his mind the mad mind Buddhist meditating for 50 years they call their mind the mad monkey or the caged monkey you know so you know I'm pretty tolerant about my how my head is and I I just I just sit I I breathe I use my breath as an anchor, you know, no breathe in and out through my nose. I have my spine straight and then I just pay attention and watch myself and I lose track and then I when I notice that I'm off track and somewhere else, I go back to the breath and I just repeat as necessary. And then I'm doing some other meditation meditative stuff with some guys from AA, you know, in a in a group.

I go to meditation retreats. I've done a course and it's which is more part of my 11st step. So but basically all meditation techniques in my experience are are being about basically having your spine straight and paying at using your breath.

>> So are you trying to stay away from thought and you're >> no focusing on your breath or >> no no just paying attention. Why I a good way not to stay away from thought is trying to stay away from thought. It's completely impossible for me at least, you know.

Um, no, no, just paying attention, you know, paying attention to the pres, paying attention to how I'm feeling in my body, what I'm thinking, you know, what's going on, where am I? >> Yeah. Am I here right now?

You know, I'm usually I'm asleep. Usually I'm not here. Usually I'm not present.

you know that's just the way I am. So just the meditation practice is a little little bit of an effort to try to be here now be where I am. >> Thank you.

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