welcome to sober Sunrise a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience strength and Hope from around the world we bring you several new speakers weekly so be sure to subscribe whether you join us in the morning or at night there’s nothing better than a sober Sunrise we hope that you enjoy today’s speaker my my name is Mike and I’m an alcoholic uh my dry dat is September 7th 1985 and uh my home group’s the dignitary sympathy group in Indianapolis Indiana uh we meet on uh Tuesday nights and uh be pleased to see any of you coming through town uh we used to be uh since our inception for about 18 years we were a men’s group and uh through some exploration in group inventory over a period of four or five years we’re now uh open to all who suffer from alcoholism and uh it’s uh the girls now get to come up in the treehouse and uh play with the guys and uh you know we found an amazing thing that we didn’t uh that we didn’t dilute the quality of our Medan at all as a matter of fact we may have raised it a couple of notches uh that was that was a gift incidentally from uh a friend of your mine and I’m sure yours too Don uh from Aurora Don said you know if you don’t have any girls there what you’ve got is you got guys that don’t know anything about women teaching other guys about women and uh uh What uh what I thought I would do with your your permission here to start is that uh now that I’ve introduced myself uh we’ll uh have a little uh few minutes of meditation and then uh do a prayer and and we’ll get started uh getting to know each other in forming the group here so if you want to get comfortable and kind of relax into the Stillness a little bit uh we just have a find that for some of the people that uh haven’t had a lot of experience with meditation that we’ll we’ll start with a little little piece of music here that kind of helps us maybe relax into that Stillness this piece is a a piece uh called uh the Prayer of St Gregory and uh it’s just kind of a favorite of mine so uh with your permission we’ll start you know our I’m just kind of the sideshow here this weekend uh I’m uh I’m here so I’m here so you’ll get together uh and uh I suspect looking at this setting that uh you’d be delighted to come here anyway uh because it’s such a beautiful place uh but we going to hopefully spend a weekend getting to know ourselves and each other better and by doing that uh we’ll end up knowing god better and uh I think it’s a wonderful way for us to spend a weekend I uh wrote a little prayer for this weekend and I’d like to share that with you you loving Spirit we ask your blessing for all who have gathered in this sacred place of retreat let us be conscious of your presence as we form this group we ask that you remove our fear especially of each other and bring our hearts and Minds into Unity Unity with each other that we may learn to grow in harmony Unity with you that we we may do your will always loving father please guide our dialogue with each other that your will be for us may be revealed open our minds and hearts that we can set aside our old ideas let us be constantly reminded that you desire our happiness Above All Things amen what uh in order that I can begin to get to know you better i’ there are a few old friends here uh that I’m so delighted to see again but many of you I haven’t met before so what I’m going to suggest is we’ll start around the room and you can uh tell us who you are what you are maybe your dried a if you like and uh uh if you have any special intention or anything special that you’re looking for this weekend uh now you can look around and do a headcount here and see if we all take a couple minutes to do that that that will burn the entire night uh I I learned long ago that it’s absolutely useless for me to try and control a crowd of Alcoholics but I’ll make a suggestion that we may want to be somewhat brief about that so uh with uh with that in mind uh why don’t we start over here with Turk uh well welcome and you know I especially could we have a show of hands of the people that are at their very first Retreat ever look around wow I want I want to honor and congratulate you what it was like when I did my first Retreat I was about six went to my first Retreat I was about 6 months sober uh and like many of you it was the uh at the strong suggestion of a sponsor and uh I was so afraid of what I imagined that retreat was going to be because it was at a monastery and uh I’d been you know avoiding God for a long time uh because I was sure that he was armed and dangerous and looking for me and uh I uh they found me at the beginning just as that retreat was about ready to begin I was sure that they were going to confiscate I was a three-pack a day smoker then and and uh carried my own thermos of coffee to make sure I had enough and Found Me by The Front Gate of that Retreat smoking cigarettes two at a time and uh and afraid to go in and uh one of the old-timers came and took me by the hand and and walked me into that place and uh uh that was one of the doors open to uh that open to the wonderful life I have today so I uh I honor people that have the courage to come for the first time and I want to uh also honor the the people that uh the oldtimers that have got here that that continue to come back back and uh have the humility to continue to want to grow and learn and expand and their relationship with God and and give back to this Fellowship uh I think one of the saddest things I see from time to time in uh going around different places is is the people that have essentially packed it up and said well you know I’ve done my share it’s now somebody else’s turn and uh you know those people over time I don’t seem to do very very well and it it’s a very sad thing uh to see and uh We’ve uh it’s also a glorious thing to see uh see some of them waken up and and come back and and and Bloom again too in this Fellowship so glad to see everybody here uh I suspect we’ve got some smokers in here am I right okay uh I’m going to talk for just a little bit longer and then we’ll we’ll take a break and uh so uh The Smokers don’t go crazy and we can visit the restroom and so forth what uh what do you like for breaks 10 minutes 15 minutes what’s what’s the group conscience on that three years three years okay okay 10 minutes okay all right well when we take when we take a break uh we can make it a 10 minute break we’ll see what it really is that’s what that’s when you gather again that’s the real group conscience you know uh but I’ll be in the chair 10 minutes after we uh we take that break uh I uh I had my first drink when I was 12 years old and uh it was magic for me what uh what happened is describ to me is described on page 27 of our basic text here and uh in that paragraph there Carl Young is talking to a guy by the name of a Roland Hazard which I think is just marvelous name for an alcoholic you know but Ro roll rolling I was kind of more like a rolling Hazard uh Roland was a a rich alcoholic of the most dangerous kind and uh he was his family was able to send him to Europe to be with the the finest psychiatrist available the time who uh at that time was Carl Young uh he was probably neck and neck with Freud at that point in time and uh they spent time together uh he spent uh in six months more or less living at at Carl Young’s compound and letting Carl work on him uh and at that end of that time sure Roland was sure that his drink problem had been solved and so he was going to go back to the States now in those days you didn’t take the Concord or 747 back the States you went to one of the ports and you embarked on a on a liner and came back and he was sitting around in Paris waiting to catch his ship uh when somebody asked him the wrong question and the wrong question for him was would you like some wine with your meal sir and before he knew what had happened six months of not drinking and six months of everything that Carl Young was able to teach him just went up and smoked he had a strange metal Blank Spot and so he made his way back to Carl and uh you know I don’t know if he I suspect being alcoholic he wanted his money back but I don’t you know I that part isn’t recorded but uh he essentially asked Carl what in the heck happened to me you know what in the world I was I was sure that you know what you taught me and everything else I I was never going to drink again and Carl essentially says well you’re doomed you know there you apparently are certain a certain type of alcoholic and uh no treatment we have as far as we know is able able to change that and not liking that diagnosis like any of us Roland says well isn’t there anything that can be done and he says well yes once in a while here and there men have had spiritual Awakenings or spiritual experiences great emotional rearrangements and displacements uh and uh they seem to not drink again uh and the way he described a spiritual awakening was he said ideas and emotions that were the guiding force in the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side and a new set of conceptions take hold now that’s exactly what happened to the 12 12-year-old I was a 12-year-old that needed a drink uh and when I took that drink ideas emotions and everything that had governed my life up to that point in time got set off to the side I was I was a little Mr Goody Two Shoes I was a kid you probably wanted to slap I worked in the principal’s office I was a little honor student uh I was the te I was the teacher’s pet I was you know uh Little Boy Scout all that kind of stuffff uh and I didn’t do those things by the way because I was really truly a good kid I did those things to get approval because what I needed was approval I needed praise particularly from adults and approval and I had that Spiritual Awakening and I didn’t need any that crap anymore I was within a couple of weeks all of that stuff was going on now I wasn’t didn’t become a continuous Drinker at 12 years old but what I did is I found found something that worked and it wasn’t until much later when a man was helping me in this program uh he pointed that out to me and showed me what had happened to me uh that i’ but what I what I who I’d always been what I’d always been was somebody who had desperately I’d been a child who desperately needed a spiritual awakening and I didn’t know how to have one on my own and so I I stole one out of a bottle and because it was stolen I couldn’t keep it it was synthetic but the rest of my life was a search for that Awakening now I had no clue that was CU if you’d ask me when I came around here like I always kind of chuckle when I hear people talking about searching for their spirituality my understanding is we all have spirituality spirituality is like Health you can have good health or bad Health but we all have health uh and I’m innately a spiritual being uh what I didn’t have was I didn’t have any consciousness of that I didn’t have an awareness of that that was useful to me and so I lived in a state of fear uh and everything I did in my life was one way or another uh taken in that direction to to uh to have that Awakening uh I uh I didn’t have any consequences from drinking when I was 12 years old old uh and I won’t take you through a long drunk AOG here some of it will probably come up over the weekend as as we talk about various things but uh to give you a couple snapshots of what life was like I I’m maybe 15 years old and I grew up in a little town a college town uh maybe a great deal like Eugene here I was a a big 10 college town in Iowa City Iowa is where I grew up uh and uh in the 50s when when I grew up it was kind of an Aussie and Harriet kind of place people left their keys in the car didn’t lock their houses usually everybody kind of knew the neighbors uh on uh on Friday nights uh we had this kind of uh big loop or block we lived on and uh all the all the fathers had had put a bunch of grills together in the center of the backyards there and we’d we’d have fish fries on on on the weekends and all the every every family bring something different and so I was I was used to pitching at an early age uh and so that was the kind of uh background I I need to tell you by the way I uh partially as a matter of amends I I come from I used to say a normal family I I’ll tell you it’s a functional family and I know I’m sure not sure what a normal family would be uh I uh I’m the oldest of four kids uh I uh I just uh buried my mother two weeks ago today uh and my uh I so was so desperate to belong when I got here that I uh I invented an entire dysfunctional family because I thought I needed a dysfunctional family in order to fit in uh and by saying that I’m I’m not dissing anybody who had that experience because I’ve got dear friends that had her horrific childhood but I lied about mine you know uh now the family wasn’t perfect but what the family did is when there was a problem the family faced the problem and frequently I was the problem so I’m back to telling the truth about those family members now but uh it’s a it’s a I’m the like I said I’m the oldest it’s it’s maybe a Wednesday night during the school week and I’m uh I’m coming in about midnight 1:00 and the door is not locked but I’m a little clumsy getting in because I I’ve I’ve been out drinking some uh and I Make some noise and my mother wakes up and she says Mike is that you and I swear at her yeah F off leave me alone you know that was a serious mistake uh my father got through college on a scholarship playing tackle for Drake University does if if that gives you the kind of the picture here and I’m 15 and I’m drunk and so my dad would get up and my dad even though he was a very big man was a very gentle man uh would would never never lay a hand on me but he would not allow me to abuse my mother so he’d say son you’re you’re not going to talk to your mother like that now being drunk I would do the next insane thing I’d wind up and take a swing at him uh now thank God I’m big enough that I can cause him a little trouble but he’d have mercy on me and rather instead of just knocking my head off he’d restrain me but I’m a big enough kid that I can cause him a little trouble so we’re wrestling around on the kitchen floor and I maybe trying to slam his head in a Cupboard and now the other three younger kids are up and they’re upset and they’re crying because they’re afraid that their daddy and their big brother are going to hurt each other that doesn’t sound like any description of social drinking that I’m familiar with see I got here with the illusion that I I’d had a normal drinking life up to a given point and then it somewhere it just went off the rails you know when I was uh but I get to see what the truth of my experience is taking a year or two down the road I’m 16 17 and I’m driving now uh that’s why I put it in that time frame and I uh we sitting around the kitchen table uh and in the middle of the table is uh my sister’s uh hope chest one of these little wooden boxes the gals had in those days and the reason it’s there is she kept her babysitting money in that hope chest and it’s gone and so we’re having a family meeting to uh figure out what happened to Carol’s money and uh I did well you’re doing it too they all seem to be looking at me and I looked him right in the eye and you know what in the hell are you looking at me that way for I don’t know what happened to her money and of course I did her big brother took the money that she was saving for a special dress and I went out and I bought a keg for my friends out at the lake that weekend and had a big party uh so I could be the be the center of the mention the guy that brought the cake and so here I am you know I I’m in this illusion that I’m a normal social drinker but the truth is that almost out of the gate I’m bringing violence into my home and I’m stealing to support my habit uh this is not the picture of normal drinking that I have I uh that’s I need to talk a minute about what alcohol did for me I was I was a frightened kid like I said uh now the way I I understand that today is I didn’t walk around saying I was frightened what I walked around is I was a bully I was a walk around I was I was angry I I’d walk around I’d get in your face uh and all that stuff and I didn’t understand that that was uh that was my way to control my fear was to to push back at the world and uh the alcohol did something for me it it it opened me up it loosened me up it it gave me what a scared kid out of a little town in Iowa I could uh I could go off and I could uh I could go to go to the Army go to Vietnam uh I could uh that always puzzled me by the way uh I ended up uh the most highly decorated soldier of that period out of my part of my little part of the country there Eastern Iowa and had my picture in the paper and uh the good part of that was that you know my folks got to see my name in the paper for something other than you know uh getting picked up on Saturday night right uh but uh I couldn’t ever reconcile the fact that I had stuff signed by the Secretary of Defense and the president that said I was Gallant in action and all this other stuff and I couldn’t understand reconcile that with the the fear I I felt uh and so I I even felt like a a phony there uh that uh I mean I needed I needed part of me needed the recognition and part of me uh despised myself for acknowledging it because I knew I was scared to death you know uh and our friend Don helped me walked me into that uh years ago uh he said you know I said Don how how is it that I could be so frightened and uh I’m doing things like running at machine guns and doing this stuff you know uh and he said oh he says you just did that out of fear he said you were more afraid of being a coward than you were uh the consequences of your behavior and uh so I I get to see that again that I was a guy who needed a drink more than drink more than ever uh and when I came back from that uh because of my experience uh that uh I could get a break you know I could I could walk in and if I did something or if I got too drunk or if I bent a car or something you you know I could get the local police chief to say well you know I guess if I’d been where you are you’d been and did what you did I I I might might need to let off a little steam too uh and so I’m I’m I’m not trading on that stuff now and and and living living a dishonest life that also the alcohol also was fuel that got the little scared kid out of Iowa uh to go to go into business and end up in uh Chicago and New York and Atlanta and and and some places that I guarantee I would have never had the guts to go if I if I couldn’t couldn’t have a drink in my hand if I had a drink in my hand I could say yes to life and for a period of time I didn’t seem to it didn’t seem to go way off the rails if to the extent that there were bad instances uh they were uh they were they were minor I wasn’t paying a price for them and that sled down it’s uh we’ve been here a little over an hour why don’t we take that 10-minute break break now and and uh come on back and we’ll keep going here that I’ve ever I don’t know I’ve ever that I’ve ever seen a group gather this reather this fast without without a cowbell or something going on here that you’re the the spirit must be among us here tonight something uh well I told you a little bit about how my drinking started out uh I don’t want to we all know what goes on let me let me tell you about the end of my drinking here and just kind of cut to the chase uh the end of my drinking uh I well I used to say that I was living with a woman the truth was I was living off a woman uh uh and I’d become what I had not been raised to be I was uh I was I was using uh and uh I was pretty much unemployable at this time the career is gone the houses are gone the cars are well I’ve got a I’ve got a shelled out 280 Nissan Z that that when I when I used to go to the club people used to kid me about that I’d apparently taken that car in a daylight raid over Germany because there were great big holes through all the body panels uh like I’d been hit by Flack and and my days started that I’d get up whenever I could get up and I’d go out to the kitchen in this apartment and I’d make a drink and I’d take the drink into the bathroom and I’d sit on the edge of the tub and try and get that first drink to stay down because I wasn’t going to be able to do anything until the first drink stayed down uh and some days it did and some days it didn’t uh and if I if I was going to write a bad check that day I I filled out as much of it as I could right there at home because it was humiliating to stand in a store in front of a clerk and have my hands Just Dance across the the check and uh I was a functional alcoholic cuz she had a job and and we and we were living with the fiction that you know one day I was going to be employable again and things were going to change and I was going to be back in the big time and uh but I knew in my heart that wasn’t going to happen I uh I didn’t find out until later that I was on an allowance then and uh the way my allowance worked was that when she came home from work she decided how much money she was going to let me steal from her that night and that’s how much money she’d leave in her purse and she she’d put the put the rest of it under the tire cover in the trunk of the car before she came in the apartment you know uh and you know the only way you can do that is one day at a time so I I KN I knew about one day at a time living before I got here uh I can’t tell you what happened but one morning I found myself crawling around the floor of that bathroom and I decided to try one more time to get sober now I I’ve been coming to various places including AA for the past six years and and uh my best friends and drinking buddies were were either the ones that were still alive and had survived the car wrecks and the overdose and all that stuff uh they’d gotten sober uh one of those guys going to be celebrating 30 years is July 4th and but I’d gone to the same same treatment centers and tried to see the same people and and uh I went there and I was sincere but it just didn’t seem to work for me I mean I was the kind of guy that I walked around treatment with a legal pad taking notes you know uh as a matter of fact that may have been part of the problem there one if one of the counselors that had my number grabbed me and he says you know Mike this may come as a shock to you but you’re not member of the staff you know we’re you’re not here as a consultant because I was taken the need to do this need to I uh but I could parot all this stuff and I I thought I’d had the best that recovery had to offer here uh but of course I was wrong and and uh I can’t tell you because I was I was I completely hopeless because I thought that I tried everything and nothing worked and I don’t know why I tried to get sober one more time but uh some wind of Grace blew through that bathroom and uh I told the that gal that I was I needed to try and get sober again uh and uh I’m living in Indianapolis but I’m confused there’s there’s VA centers there and there’s VA centers and Illinois and everything else but the only VA Center I could remember was in the middle of my old home State Iowa uh place called Knoxville so I told her I was going to try and get sober again and she filled up my tank with gas gave me 20 20 bucks and a pint of light bardi rum and I set off to find sobriety and I uh this was this was a Labor Day weekend and our Labor Day weekends in the midwest are sometimes very very hot and this was 100 plus plus the heat index I don’t know what it was but it was it was one of the roasting times and and I’m of course I’m a drunk I’m in bed shape and uh the air conditioning doesn’t work in that car uh but I got in the car and the wh the the rum was a mercy because she knew I didn’t like rum all that much so I’d probably sip it slow but I was more dangerous driving completely sober in those days than I was if I had a little something in me I I mean I just made quick moves across three and four lanes with just a a twitch and uh I went as got in that car in that heat and I went as far as I could go and as far as I could go uh left me about a 100 miles short of that treatment facility uh now the other places I went to I’d had Insurance fine insurance and I’d had some money to spend and everything else and I’m out of resources now I’m I’m down to what the VA will do for me and uh I can’t make the last 100 miles and where I pull off Interstate 8 is right near my old Hometown in Iowa City and my uh my dad’s dead by this time uh but my mother and two two of my brothers still live there uh but I I know today that they would have welcomed me and helped me uh but maybe one of the things that broke in me was that I just lost the ability to go hurt them one more time uh because some of the the stuff I did wasn’t the that was really harmful wasn’t so much the stuff that the war stories that I told what I did is I took the people that led me the most and time after time I gave them hope and then I Crush their hearts this time my son’s getting better this time our brother’s going to make it let’s all let’s all get together and we’ll help Mike we’ll support Mike we’ll do whatever we need to for Mike you know uh and I knew bottom for me was knowing that no matter how much I love you and no matter how much I wanted to not drink I’m if you’re near me and you love me you’re going to get hurt and so the only thing I can do is stay away from you so where I ended up was on the front porch of the parents of my best friend and drinking buddy from high school uh Jerry gotten sober and moved away some years ago but uh his dad buck and and his wife nety were still living there in the house and buck was my one of my old Drinking Buddies uh even though he’d been my friend’s dad Buck was an old paratroop Trooper uh from World War II and when I was in the service uh toward the end of every month I’d get a letter from buck with a $20 bill in it and buck could say you know the noted go something like this I know damn well you’re broke by now and you probably need a drink you know uh go have a good time and 10 cent P caned PX beer you know I could with 20 bucks I could I could get going on that stuff and uh bucking is wife had done a terrible thing they about 8 years before that they gotten sober and they uh and and I lost my drinking buddy and I didn’t like it and uh they were they were doing crazy stuff like talking about God and praying and and even going to church uh and I got to tell you that I didn’t didn’t accept that gracefully uh I badmouthed them to anybody to their face and to anybody who’d listen and I think Church puppies was probably the nicest thing I called them along the way you know how can an old man guy from the parachute regiment turn into a you know uh and here I am knocking on the front door and I’m dying and I can’t make the last 100 miles uh and they came to the door and they looked at me and then looked at each other and they just both put their arms around me and just drew me into that living room and without saying another word they both had their arms around me they set a prayer for me to get better and I Stood Still for the prayer and then Buck being a practical man gave me a drink and put me to bed uh and it got up the next day and they took me the last 100 miles and buck and I had a chance he left he left us a couple years ago but we had a lot of years to talk about what happened there and we we about all we remembered about that trip that I I was sitting in the back seat and i’ I’d reach up over that seat and I’d grab Buck by the shoulder and I’d be crying I’d said buck buck please tell me please tell me how do I get this God stuff how do I get this God stuff because it’s it seemed to work for everybody else now I I didn’t doubt it it was such a mystery but I didn’t believe it could happen for me I knew it was real because I saw it happen to other people but I didn’t believe that I could have a personal relationship with a power greater than myself that was going to do anything and if Buck answered I don’t remember what it was and neither could he and so when I got to that Treatment Center uh I uh well a couple good things happened to me the first thing was that you know I God knew I guess what I needed and what I needed right then is they they did a medical evaluation and they they said you’re too sick to go to treatment uh we got to put you in the Intensive Care Unit here in the hospital for a little while uh and then if you make it we’ll see about treatment and one of one of my spiritual Awakenings is when this orderly came around and you know one of the great things about intensive care is they leave you alone there isn’t anybody else there they come in and check vitals and do stuff like that uh but you know there was nobody to lie to you know if you’d put me in I’m I’m in institutionalizing well now if you put me in a treatment unit right then I’m I know what to do I know how to get along I’m treatment slick you know I’m I’m going to be I’m going to be working my will inside that Treatment Center in a matter of days if I if I have my deal but I didn’t I’m in intensive care there’s nobody to lie to and this orderly and he should have looked like he was carrying a scythe over his shoulder like death itself com comes in and he just is I I need this for need you to sign this form and tell me where we you want your belonging solid sent for the next K you mean you’re not going to talk about my treatment program and what and I woke up a little bit and once they unhooked me from everything there and got me in a regular I I did a couple things that I’d never done before I made two decisions I believe that saved my life one was that I was going to even though I didn’t know how I was going to start trying to have this relationship with God and I began praying uh even though I didn’t know much I mean I’m I’m starting out from now I lay me down to sleep place on this Jesus loves me all this kind of stuff I and the next the other thing was that I if I get out of here I’m going to become a member of alcoholic synonymous up until then I I’d been to plenty of meetings but I was just a guy that was taking up space and keeping the chair warm uh I wasn’t really a member an active member of this program a miracle happened in there by the way I uh well a lot of but you know found out that they hadn’t changed anything in this treatment program from all the other ones I can’t you know the 12 Steps were still the same and the book was still blue and all that kind of stuff but I’d gotten changed and after I’d been there maybe 3 weeks they had an election for uh uh office officers in this the the patients running the treatment center the treatment unit there class and I was nominated to be class president and they walked out of the V room and they had a vote and I came back in uh and thank God I lost you know if I’d won you probably have a different guy sitting here tonight because my ego would have reinflated uh to the standpoint that it could have taken me out here but even I couldn’t miss the message that I’d just come in second place in The Nut House I uh you know I told you I got a functional family I I got a my baby brother would ride his motorcycle 100 miles each way to come have lunch with me when he could uh that’s a functional family uh they uh they all love me and supported me when I uh I couldn’t get back to Indianapolis right away when I got out of that place and so where I got to go like all good alcoholics I got back to go back home to Mommy and here I here I am in my old bedroom well my youngest brother doesn’t have our disease but he’d already started was starting a business that he still in today uh as a distributor of Fine Wines and so my uh my old bedroom was his first Warehouse so I’m my first night out of treatment I’m I’m here’s my here’s my old bed and surrounded on three sides to the ceiling our cases of wine you know I I I share this with all the folks that think you need special conditions you know uh I I was surrendered I was done you know it could have been anything in those there there was those box boxes didn’t have any anything that I wanted in them anymore uh so anyway I I got back to Indianapolis and I uh eventually and I uh proceeded on my course to become a junior Guru in AA and I went to uh 11 meetings a week for several years I still go to Five meetings a week I I I enjoy meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous but I’m somebody that that will take any solution and turn it into a problem you know so I’m I uh you know I essentially I got I got active I started a meeting I did all kinds of things uh every service gig I could get my hands on and what I did essentially over my first 4 and A2 years in alcoholic synonymous call it five uh realized was exactly what I did years before when I gone to the University of Iowa when I went to the University of Iowa I went over the Fieldhouse and I registered for classes uh and I went downtown and I went to the student bookstore and I bought all my books uh I joined a book fraternity through the books in the closet and started partying and if you ran into me on campus and asked me what I was doing I oh I’m a pre-law student here at the University of Iowa well you know that was technically true but the fact was I almost never went to class and that’s what I I never missed I never missed a meeting I never missed a dance I never missed a committee function I never but I was almost completely unscarred by the recovery program alcoholic synonymous here and you know meetings do work if you go to a meeting you will feel better uh but what it was happened to me it’s like I’m I’m like a guy with a a bad wisdom tooth and I go into the dentist and he looks at the tooth and he says oh Mike I think we’re going to have to take that two th oh no no don’t do it give me some Nova King uh and uh I come back a little later oh that tooth my face is all puffed oh no give me some novacaine you know and I will I will get some relief I will feel better time but all the while the condition is getting worse I’m sitting here I’m finally come to a point all as I’m approaching my fifth anniversary in AA I mean it’s an unimaginable period of sober time for me I couldn’t conceive after what I’d been through that it would be possible for me to stay sober even a year let alone five and here I am and I was I was more desperate and I was I was more discouraged than I’d ever been in my life because you see I didn’t know what was going on but here I was further from a drink than I ever expected to be and I’m dying of untreated alcoholism right in the middle of five six seven 8 10 meetings a week I’m dying of alcoholism how can this be well I haven’t experienced the recovery program of alcohol alcoholic synonymous is how that could be and God’s got a delicious sense of humor that uh I uh I got my life saved by the guy I disliked most in alcoholic synonymous uh the man I dislike most in alcoholic annonymous a couple of guys here know him is Man by the name of Gary be uh and uh Gary well Gary’s 41 years sober now I uh I the first time I saw Gary I was a couple months sober and he was 45 years old and getting a 21-year token and all the girls in the meeting went oh God it’s him isn’t he gorgeous he’s so tall and slender and oh he looks so good yeah yeah and even my married girlfriend thought he was cute and he’s probably need to cover that now here one of the one of the things I’d managed to do around here and because I’m a junior Guru is I I managed I managed to convince myself that this married girlfriend was God’s will uh I I end up I’m sponsoring her 16-year-old son and I play uker uker on the weekends with her husband and he’s a gun toing federal agent this got me this got me fired by my second sponsor who may may have saved my life by firing me there he grabbed me in the parking lot of the club one day and he says mike he says you know I keep confronting you about your behavior with this gal and he says and every time I do you explain it to me in such a way I think start to think that this is God’s will and I know that’s crazy and so I can’t be around you anymore you’re fired and I’m required to mention that because the fact is that I know now from experience I didn’t know it then that I’m by far from the only person that makes has made that kind of mistake around here and that you don’t have to get drunk because you made that kind of mistake my experience is I had to change my behavior but just because I made a serious error in judgment like that I don’t have to get drunk I don’t have to throw it all away uh so I I saw Gary several times thereafter and and I generally avoided him as much as possible and I would have avoided him on this occasion it’s a we had a it’s not in existence anymore but we used to have a Sunday morning meeting at one of the hotels it was kind of a on the North side and it was white tablecloths and uh Fine China and coffee and if you can believe it this they even charged drunks a dollar for a cup of coffee uh at the at this thing and had people pouring and I had my little Junior Guru at the front of the table at the front of this deal uh and I was sitting up there with my people and I found out too late that Gary was going to be the speaker at this thing uh now if there God will give work with whatever I give him and my ego is such that my I’m I believe that if I get up and walk out of this meeting which was what I really wanted to do that everybody would notice and wonder what was wrong with me so I sat there pinned down by my own ego and I listened to the guy I disliked most in alcoholic synonymous and he lied for well over an hour I mean he he talked about being 20 years sober and selling his house and casing his retirement plan in order to make amends and I knew that was a lie and he told other lies too uh and he happened to mention where his home group was and his home group was way the other side of town from where I live 30 Mi each way uh and so I my mind decided I’m going to what I’m going to do is I’m going to track this guy down to his home group get the goods on him and prove he’s a liar and the phony and expose him so this is my motive that I’m start driving to to his home group and of course God’s got a sense of humor and Gary’s the first one that greets me at the door you know hi gu we you know been hoping you’d show up down here one of these days and I thought well they’ve heard about me well I I found out they had but not for the reason I thought uh there’s the guy that’s dating the federal agent’s wife yeah ah and then then being a good experienced member of alcoholic synonymous when that meeting was over you know I thought well I didn’t get to you know I didn’t I won’t come back here again and I’m walking out the door and Gary says hey I’m supposed to chair next week but you know I had some business going on I may not be able to be here could you fill in for me well now they need me to chair their meeting for them so I got to come back and it started uh that way so I kept coming back and eventually I was invited to join a group of men that were going to uh take the book alcoholics and anous and start at the title page and go through the book and and uh read the black print on the white page and and follow the instructions and uh few days before we were supposed to start that uh my conscience started bothering me and at that time Gary had an office just we were in both in an office Park and he was kind of in the building across the lake from me and so I called Gary up I says you don’t uh happen to be able to have lunch do you and he said well as a matter of fact I had a cancellation I can’t have lunch so okay I got I meet him for lunch and I sit down and I said Gary I from everything I’ve heard you guys talk about these these workshops are extremely intimate settings and and intimate experiences and uh uh there’s just a tremendous amount of honesty and sharing there and I said before I start with this with you I said you need to know I don’t like you at all uh and he laughed and and uh he said I reckon we can deal with that cowboy and he went on to tell me that the guy he did his first fifth step with uh back in the 60s was a guy named Ernie uh and that that was the time of love and and and peace and everything else and uh the young people back then would when they were in meetings would greet each other with a peace symbol across the room he says the only problem was Ernie was missing one finger when he waved at me uh so I went through that and I further from a drink than I ever expected to be I I finally had the experience uh and was touched through my own experience with by the recovery program of alcoholic synonymous and the the miracle almost happened see because I was almost when you know I was I wasn’t going to drink again folks I was was I was looking for a bridge to run into see because I was more hopeless at five years than I was when I was in that de detox center because at least when that I was in that detox center I thought maybe alcoholic nons maybe somehow it could work for me but here I was I hadn’t had a drink for 5 years but I’m going crazy and apparently I believed it I loved it I went to the mean it works for you but somehow it’s not touching me and that’s why they say don’t don’t leave before your Miracle happens I didn’t have I didn’t have an I I was under the illusion since I’d been to all these meetings and done all this stuff that I was somehow you know I I’d experience what alcoholic synonymous had to offer and it wasn’t so at all I uh my life’s been wonderful since then uh I’ve I’ve had some days I wouldn’t uh wouldn’t like to experience again along the way but you know the fact is that uh I’ve been given everything I needed to meet those situations not long after that first time through the steps uh well one of the thing one of the mistakes I made I I was I was I was married to G I love very much and she was a member of alcohol is a member of Alcoholics anous sober years longer than I am as a matter of fact and being who I am after I had that Workshop experience I came home to our house and told her that I was going to conduct step study school in that house for her uh do not try this at home uh you know I uh I started hearing things like you know I watch at meetings you know and everything else you suppose our home could be one of the places you’d practice these principles you’ve learned ooh yeah I listen to you talking to those guys you sponsor and you tell them things about yourself that I’ve never heard you say uh do you suppose what would it take for me to have a you know half hour 45 minute intimate conversation with you uh you’ve never once told me you’re afraid of anything uh you’ve never you know I I didn’t have a clue and So eventually it turns out that I find out we’re going to have a divorce at my house and here I am now I’m six almost seven years sober and I all of a sudden uh my oh I’ve been making money again by the way but my now my luxury car is gone uh my bank account is down to 32 bucks and I’m living in the sleeping bag I’ve got upstairs there I’m living in that sleeping bag on the floor of a friend’s Den but you know what I wouldn’t want to do that again but I was I was free in that sleeping bag I had a relationship with a power greater than myself uh and I didn’t like my circumstances one bit and I didn’t like like the fact that my marriage was coming to an end and I didn’t seem to be able to do anything about it uh but the thought of a drink never occurred uh I uh I’ve got guys today that are sober quite a while that uh uh that was in ‘ 92 there was guys that are sober quite a while that you know said you know uh you were sponsoring then Mike and and I was sure my sponsor was going to get drunk because he he’ lost his stuff and ended up living in a sleeping bag uh and just watching although I wasn’t conscious I sure wasn’t doing it for anybody’s benefit but they say you know watching you walk through that period of time uh was really important to me uh so uh we’re teachers of A Sort whether we know it or not at all sorts of times I uh I uh couple years ago uh late 2002 I uh I got a phone call uh from a nurse that says uh uh we want to schedule you for a a CAT scan and I said okay but why am I going to be having a CAT scan she says oh the doctor hasn’t talked you yet and uh so the doctor comes on the line he says well uh Mike I’m sorry you found out this way I anyway uh long story short you’re your biopsy came back and you’ve got a very high-grade aggressive form of cancer here and and we need to we need to find out uh how much it may have spread and uh what what any treatment options might be uh and uh I called our friend Don and I I said Don they just told me I have cancer and Don says well Cowboy he says how does it feel to know that the fact you aren’t going to live forever isn’t just a theory you you’ve given me H H you know and we we had a laugh and we we could deal with that you know wasn’t based on denial and in in in Rosy scenarios I obviously survived that but I got a I got a chance to surrender all over again the cancer I had was was was prostate cancer and it had spread outside the prostate uh and uh didn’t know that immediately uh and so I got a chance to make another surrender because I’m I don’t know why they seem to schedule surgery at 5: in the morning but uh that’s maybe because I’m just numb then anyway so uh resistance but I’m I’m I’m laying on this gurnie naked as a jbird with a sheet over me and uh the resident comes around and goes over what they’re going to do with this Sur surgery and uh okay he says and you know he says it looks like we’re probably may have a fair chance of being able to SP your nerves so you’ll be able to continue to function sexually in a normal fashion good and uh then another doctor came by and he said uh well he says I’m sure you’re aware due to the progression of this we’re not going to be able to save anything and I said wait a minute send the first guy back and and he says well you got to know understand that I’m his boss uh and uh so I’m laying there with a decision to make and it wasn’t really a decision at all because i’ I’d been with you and been held in the power of go hands power of God for a long time and you know I could just say you know thy will be done do what do what you will and uh out of that see I get a beautiful experience because uh although I didn’t know it was going to be for a limited time uh what I what I got is I I got to essentially my uh my sexual Powers were temporarily removed and I got to find out who I was when I couldn’t wave the magic wand uh and I don’t know about you but a lot of the guys I talk to that’s a big part of our identity and who am I without that and where do I fit into God’s plan and scheme of things uh now as it turned out what God God did for me there what he’s done for me several other times is I’ve got a very kind God and uh what he does because when I’m on the field and busy playing the game I don’t I can’t I’m so busy playing the game that I don’t see what’s going on so what this loving God does is every now and then he’ll take me out out of the game and put me in the Press Box for a while so I can see what’s going on and so what he did around this was he he took me out of that game and put me in the Press Box and I got to see who I really was and and I got to have that relationship with him uh change and deepen also got to have a relationship uh with the woman I love on a different basis you know uh is she going to stay is she going to go uh all this kind of stuff I got to trust uh and uh she said you know when you were laying there that gurnie and you you told that doctor thy will be done she said I it was one of the most most powerful demonstrations of faith that I’ve ever seen I I wasn’t doing it on purpose it just what happen but people watch us so I’ve had a I’ve had an amazing life uh because I stayed here long enough for for the for the second miracle to happen and the Miracles thereafter uh why don’t we take a another 10-minute break here and we’ll come back and we’ll do one more session and then wrap it up for tonight okay it’s N I got 9:00 we’ll try 10 after 9: out you guys put me up here so I’d have my back to the fire and you just kind of turn the temperature up on me here and kind of roast the truth out of me here that’s a it’s it’s a glorious thing to watch this group form up you know because I know a lot of you know each other but will this group this way will’ll only meet one time and uh you know everybody’s relationship is just a little different because of and will be different because of what’s happened here and one of the things I observed in watching all of you is that there there really don’t there I’m sure I I hesitate to say this because somebody will being just have to prove that I’m wrong but I I haven’t seen the Lone Rangers operating here everybody’s at least in twos you know uh and the real important thing that happens here is what goes on between you not necessarily what comes out of my mouth I’m I’m kind of like the organ Grinders monkey here I’m just here to get the crowd together uh I uh powerless over alcohol that my life has become unmanageable I uh you know it’s important for me to have a current first step uh I can’t stay sober today I can’t be useful today based on Whiskey I drank 20 some years ago uh that Fades away that pain goes away uh when you know the truth is that if I think I’m not powerless today I’m living in a delusion and you know there’s a difference the delusion is what the the untrue thought that comes from the inside it’s me fooling me the illusion is like the M magician where the where the where it comes from the outside it’s the it’s the magician pushing getting me to look one way while he pulls the rabbit out of the Hat over here and most of the time what I suffer from is delusion uh it’s self-induced lack of ability to see the truth and see the truth in my circumstances uh you know what we really have to offer here uh we talk about a program and the course of action and everything else and those things are all true to some extent but what we really have here is a way of life we don’t have a qualification course that if you do these things you’ll now okay you’ve satisfied those requirements I can go live life the way I want to now uh that now that I’ve dealt with the active alcoholism that I’m not going to that I’m not going to find out on a continuous basis that I’m power powerless and and my life is unmanageable so I challenge it it’s important to go along for me to keep an idea of of where that I need a current step first step I need to know right here where I am with that as of today uh be that as may let me step back here and and it occurred to me uh one of the places where I really understood powerlessness was here and this is just a piece of conduct inventory and uh this in about my sexual conduct with the with the love of my life uh this is the girl I wanted to marry this is the girl I wanted to be the mother of my children this is the girl that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with this is the girl that I gave the ring to I loved her with all of my heart uh Ellen where was I selfish I wanted to enjoy sex with her regardless of the consequences where was I dishonest I told her not to worry that I’d always be there for her no matter what I dishonestly refused to consider my ability to keep that promise where was I inconsiderate well I gave scant considerations to the consequences of my behavior to her her family her faith her reputation and her career career I roused jealousy I told her that if she didn’t have sex with me that I’d get it elsewhere that’s a Charming relationship technique I paid undue attention to other women in her presence and remarked to her as to how attractive I found them this is the best I can do in having a relationship I aroused suspicion I often spent time alone with other women and she found me at uh at Holly’s apartment I roused bitterness when she became pregnant I told her that I doubted it was my child I told her mother that I was too young to get married and didn’t want to marry her anyway when she was in California having our baby I made drunken calls to herang and harass her I abandoned her and our child and because she was in California and I was back home I blamed her to all the other people for deserting me who did I harm well obviously the baby Ellen her family my family and our friends uh what should I have done instead uh Don told me that almost anything else would be a good place to start now this is this is important though because this is where I find out what I’m really writing here here is I’m planting the seed to let God take me to a different place if I’ll allow it God’s a gentleman he won’t do it without my permission I should have treated sex as the sacred gift that it is I shouldn’t have engaged in behavior that I wasn’t willing to be responsible for I should have honestly faced the consequences of my actions I should have been honest with myself and others my harms were all rooted in dishonesty particularly about how afraid I was self-reliance will always produce fear and pain and so now I’ve got a place where I can go to God and say you know I’d like to be a man who could treate treat sex as a sacred gift in a relationship I’d like to be a man who can be responsible in this area of his life yeah uh I want to honestly face the consequences of my actions you know and so forth that def that was written long ago and and one of the nice things about that ideal for my future conduct is it gets to changed over time as I change uh uh I uh I suggest thank you for listening to sober Sunrise if you enjoyed today’s episode please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message until next time have a great day