AA Speaker – Valerie D. – Santa Fe, NM – 2007
AA speaker Valerie D. from Santa Fe shares her journey from early alcoholism and multiple relapses to finding freedom through Big Book study and Step work. A story of spiritual awakening in recovery.
Valerie D. from Santa Fe, New Mexico spent her early sobriety running—from commitment, from honesty, from the program itself. In this AA speaker tape, she walks through how years of half measures, multiple bottoms, and a sponsor who wouldn’t let her off easy finally cracked her open to the real work of recovery through Big Book study and the 12 Steps.
Valerie D. describes her alcoholism starting in her teens and includes multiple attempts at sobriety before finding lasting recovery. She shares how a sponsor named Camille taught her the importance of working all three parts of AA (recovery, unity, service) and studying the Big Book with precision. Her talk emphasizes that spiritual awakening comes through thorough Step work, commitment to the fellowship, and learning to serve rather than hide out in AA.
Episode Summary
Valerie D.’s story spans decades of drinking and sobriety attempts. She came from an alcoholic home where her father drank and her mother chased him around with frying pans. Before she ever took her first drink, something felt terribly wrong—she couldn’t connect with people, always felt on the outside looking in. When she finally drank at 14, it was magic. That hole in her gut disappeared, the fear lifted, and she’d do anything to feel that way again.
Within a year of drinking, she was labeled an ungovernable youth, running away from home, stealing to drink. By 16, her parents sent her to treatment in Jacksonville Beach, Florida. She left at the lowest level, angry and unconvinced she was an alcoholic. For the next decade, she drifted in and out of AA, stealing money from the clubhouse, going to meetings drunk, treating the rooms like a social club. One sponsor told her she wasn’t that bad. She made it her mission to prove him wrong.
After a legal bottom at 17, she promised herself she’d never drink again—and meant it. She moved to Los Angeles to be near her sober father, but she didn’t actually do the work. On the plane, she already knew something had shifted, but she kept running. She chased boys at the 502 Club, looked for love at 13th step dances, and lived what she calls a very ugly life sober. She was spiritually sick without a drink in her hand, doing things drunk she’d never done drinking. After three and a half years, she relapsed in one moment: somebody asked if she wanted a drink, and she said yes.
The real turning point came years later in New York. After years bouncing between cities, jobs, and relationships, she hit a bottom that felt different. Her father, now sober, managed to reach her when she called. Something in her heard him that night. When she moved to Richmond, Virginia, she went to the Phoenix Group and felt like she was home for the first time in AA. She got a sponsor that night—unusual for her. She called every day, did what was asked, and was willing. But she still drank twice more before October 13, 1992, when she had her last drink in Minneapolis—two shots that she didn’t finish because her ex-husband showed up to pick her up. That night, she asked God for help. And she hasn’t needed to drink since.
But sobriety wasn’t smooth. Around three and a half years sober, she went insane. She was doing AA every way she could—Joe and Charlie, the 12 and 12, carrying drunks to meetings every day—but nothing was working. She was suicidal, stripped of everything, living in her car. People told her to stay away, that she was too sick. That’s when she met Camille Frey at a conference she didn’t want to attend. Camille looked her in the eye and said, “Girl, you’re a mad dog alcoholic and you’re going to die unless you get into all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous.”
Camille taught her what that meant: recovery (the steps and spiritual principles), unity (commitment and fellowship), and service (putting AA’s principles into all her affairs). Camille had no patience for her excuses. “You do it or see you later. Love you. Mean it. Don’t waste my time.” They started at the beginning of the Big Book and worked the steps exactly as written. No gray area, no monkey business. Precise meant precise.
That’s when Valerie D. started to recover for real. She worked through Step One at depth and finally got it—she was absolutely 100 percent powerless. The unmanageability, the futility of her own will, all of it became clear. She learned that AA isn’t a social club or a place to hide; it’s about service. It’s about being of use to God and to other alcoholics. Her anger, her need to control, her perfectionism—all of it started to shift as she walked through the Steps with someone who wouldn’t let her cheat.
She spent years wrestling with fear, perfectionism, and the belief that she had to do everything right or she’d fail. Her sponsor Don kept telling her to lighten up, to trust her gut, to follow her heart’s desire and let God handle the rest. Slowly, she learned to work, to support herself honestly, to stop being a thief in every way. She learned what it meant to be accountable to a sponsor, to be committed to her home group, to carry the message to other alcoholics.
Today, with 15 years sober at the time of this talk, Valerie D. carries the message with passion and clarity. She sponsors other women. She works in service. She’s not afraid of God’s will anymore. She’s learned that the truth is always simple, never complicated—and the Big Book is the greatest AA sifter there is. When what you hear in a meeting doesn’t match what’s in the book, trust the book. And when you feel like an outsider, read the stories in the back until you find yourself in someone else’s experience and know that this program can work for you too.
Notable Quotes
If you want to get to know, you got to get to know God’s kids.” — (her sponsor’s advice about what matters in AA)
Valerie, you’re a mad dog alcoholic and you’re going to die unless you get into all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous.
The big book is the greatest AA sifter there is. If you can’t reconcile in the big book what you hear in a meeting, then it’s not AA.
Precise means precise, Valerie. There’s no gray area because I’m all about the gray, baby.” — (Camille’s instruction on working the Steps exactly as written)
The dumber you are here, the better.” — (her sponsor’s advice about not overthinking the program)
I felt understood at depth for the first time in my life” — (on what the fellowship gave her)
Step 1 – Powerlessness
Spiritual Awakening
Sponsorship
Service Work
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Big Book Study
- Step 1 – Powerlessness
- Spiritual Awakening
- Sponsorship
- Service Work
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. We hope to always remain an ad-free podcast, so if you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-onrise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker >> having me out here and I had a um a blast at the Taj Mahal last night at the Taj Mahal which is Tom Aman's place and uh got picked up this morning by the little road runner um >> Tony Yeah Tony Blankenship. He was yawning about an hour into it.
I said, "Am I wearing you out?" That was kind of funny. If you know Tony, he's like a mile a minute. It was a blast.
And we just had a great time harassing people and just laughing and uh just ate some great food and spent way too much money and it was good. Um but not out of control money, which is a change. Responsible spending, that's a change.
Anyway, um so I have no idea what I'm going to do. Um so I was going to do what my previous sponsor did and what my current sponsor does at things like this and ask you what you want. Um since I'm here to be of service to y'all.
Um so I thought we'd just kind of introduce ourselves and if you just tell me who you are and how long you're sober and uh what you're looking for this weekend, that'll help me. Um, so yeah, so that's all right with y'all. And kept coming to me was that um my sponsor used to tell me all the time, he goes, "Val, if you want to get to know, you got to get to know God's kids." And at these things, that's the most important thing that happens.
It's not necessarily who you've got talking or how profound uh what they have to share is. It's about what happens after the person's done talking. Um the magic that happens with with one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic, one Alanon talking to another alcoholic talking about recovery.
Um that that's where that's where God is. So I'll ramble on and stuff and God knows I can talk about myself ad nauseium. Um but that's the most important thing that happens here.
And so you know that I'm a real alcoholic. I'll tell you a little bit about me. Um, uh, I come from an alcoholic f home.
My dad is an alcoholic. He's sober today, 26 years. Um, I so I grew up in that kind of insanity.
Lots of uh violence and and craziness and my mother chasing him around with frying pans and him bringing women home to say and uh, so that's how I grew up. My mom married a in a a pilot they got divorced and my mom married a pilot in the Navy and we moved around a lot. Um so I love the geographic even before I picked up a drink.
I was ready to go when it was time to go and I a lot of that is because I never fit before I ever took a drink. There was something terribly wrong with me before I ever picked up a drink. And I absolutely was one of those people who was on the outside looking in.
I never connected. I always wanted to connect with people, but I just couldn't. Um I used to blame that on my family and I used to blame that on my, you know, my mother had a square nipple, whatever.
Um that that that's why I'm so different. That's why I can't connect with people. And today I I think that that's my alcoholism.
Um, I I I have defective relationships. I am absolutely separated um on my own. I'm separated from you and and and from God.
Um so I was like I was waiting for a drink. I needed a drink. The first place I found some power though, my sponsor used to talk to me about that all the time that Valerie is we're power seekers.
We love power. Um something that's going to make me feel whole. um and a sense of power and that everything's okay.
And the first place I found that power was being a thief. And I used to go sneak over to my friend's house, steal their toys, and put them underneath my bed. And they knew exactly where to go.
They knew took place immediately. I was like the neighborhood pariah at five. It was bad.
Um so, you know, I didn't have uh close-knit relationships. Um, when I had my first drink, I was I was 14 going on 15 and I and I was ready to have a drink and uh it was absolute magic for me. Um, no question.
And I got sick and I got in trouble and uh engaged in immoral behavior and I couldn't wait to do it again. Um, I didn't care. What happened to me was so profound.
It was like a spiritual awakening. um my head uh stopped. Um that huge hole in my gut was gone.
That overwhelming sense of fear was gone. Um me not knowing what to say to you or how to be around you was gone. So I truly I didn't care what the price was that I had to pay in order to drink again.
I was willing to pay it. And I immediately uh started pursuing drinking with a with a vengeance. And within a period of a year, and these were all, not that this is what makes me alcoholic, but to try to illustrate to you how hard I went after it.
Um, within a year I was labeled an ungovernable by the state of Florida, habitual truent, habitual runaway, transit youth centers, juvenile detention centers, and those were all consequences of my drinking or me trying to get the money to drink. Um, so I I didn't care what's the price I have to pay. I'll pay it.
If it makes all of this go away, all that internal unmanageability, if the pain stops here and here, I'll do whatever I have to do. So um so when I was uh uh getting ready to turn 16, my parents, you know, and that's what started the rounds of psychiatrists and psychologists and God knows I've been saved numerous times. I've been dip dunked and turned over twice.
You know what I'm saying? I've been confirmed twice because the first one didn't take and um that's no joke. My parents thought I needed to do it again.
Um but uh you know so anyway this this one uh counselor who I was buying cocaine from by the way uh told my parents that I had an alcohol and drug problem and I needed to go into a treatment center. So in 1982 I went into the care unit in Jacksonville Beach, Florida and I was there for three months and I was pissed. Um I was not a good treatment participant.
Um, I don't like to follow rules. I never have. I heard Peg Martin describe it once.
I always think that the rules don't apply to me. And and I really believe that and have lived my life that way. You know, I'll do what I need to do while you're looking, but the instant you turn your back, I'm going to do it my way.
And if I get caught, I'll be sorry for a little while. And I might even have some genuine remorse, but it's not going to last very long. And that's I mean but that and that's the nature of me.
Um unreovered that's how I operate. So anyway, so I'm not a as a matter of fact you know when you're in treatment if you're good you get to move up levels or days and you get more privileges. When I left treatment and I was in there for three months when I left treatment I was on level one day one.
So I didn't do a good job while I was there. Um, and when I got out, I had to start going to AA meetings and my mommy used to drop me off at the AA clubhouse. That's the worst.
And um, back then in 1982, you could still smoke in uh, smoke hanging. And, you know, there's the coffee pot and very old people in that meeting. crusty old dudes running around in that meeting and um and I was angry that I had to be there.
Um I didn't want to be there and and uh at that point when I came in in that area of the country, there wasn't a lot of young people coming in. And I'll never forget this guy saying to me, Valerie, uh you need to go home. You're still young.
Do what your parents are telling you to do. Go to church. Be a good girl.
you don't have to do what we have done. And um I said, "So you don't think I'm an alcoholic?" He said, "No." So he goes, "No, you haven't. You haven't gotten that bad." However, he said that.
What I heard is you're not an alcoholic. So it became my personal mission to prove I was an alcoholic to this man. So I started showing up at their meetings drunk.
I stole the key to the AA clubhouse. That's where I take my friends to go party was at the AA clubhouse. I stole their money.
They used to put their money after meetings into this Coke machine. And um any good thief knows all you need is a hanger and you can stick that down in there and pull it out. And that's what I used to drink.
That was my drinking money. They always used to what's happening to our money. I don't know.
You know, I mean because we're liars. I'm a liar. Uh I lie about anything, everything.
It doesn't matter. Habitual chronic liar. I lie even when I don't want to lie.
I don't even know where I learned to lie. I just lied. Um, ever since I can remember, I've been a liar.
Um, so anyway, not not a good AA member. Not a good upstanding AA member. Um, I didn't want a sponsor because then, you know, they're messing around in your life trying to tell you what to do.
Um, I didn't want any of that. It was going to interfere with my lifestyle. Um, I didn't think I was really an alcoholic.
Um, I was going to AA because of consequences. That's why I was going. And I was going in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out.
I don't think I ever got more than three months at a time, maybe six. um and would just show up when I got in trouble and um you know would hang out in the in the clubhouse for a while and um when I was 17 though I got into a lot of legal trouble u with my pursuit of alcohol and the option was given to me either get sober or you're going back to juvie and of course I'm going to choose sobriety I'll get sober again but I had hit a bottom as much as a 17-year-old can. I was at the end of my rope and um I surrendered and I said, "I will never ever drink again." And I and I meant it.
I really meant it. Um and my father was now sober about five years and he was living in LA. So, and family relations were strained in Florida.
So, I went to LA and um condom manipulated my way out there. My dad wanted me to like work the steps before I came out there. I didn't I didn't want anything to do with that.
So, what I did was whip out the 12 and 12, read up, call him, and just kind of make up something and say, "Yeah, I just completed steps one, two, and three, and this is what I learned." You know, I I didn't do anything. I just read a book because I wanted to get out of there. I wanted to get out of where I was because, you know, it's all their fault.
and it'll be different when I'm with you because you understand and you're an AA and and all of that stuff. Um, so I got out there and he said the moment I got off the plane, he knew he knew that nothing had changed. And that's so true with us.
Um, and I'm sure people that have been around for a little while, something happens when we wake up spiritually, we change. And it's and people see it like that. They just see it.
They know. We sound different. We look different.
We're taking different actions. We're compelled to go help other people. Can't get away from it.
You know, some crazy stuff is going on. And uh anyway, so he knew. And um so I ran around Los Angeles for a while.
My favorite place to hang out was the 502 club in Coina, California. And the saying there was who's on who at the 502. And that was the place for me.
I loved it. As a matter of fact, this guy named Big Book Mack, he said, "Girl, you need to sit down, shut up, keep your legs crossed because you're missing it." And uh I went to a meeting every day though. I was in a meeting every day.
Um went to the we called them the 13th step dances looking for love and AA at the dances, which quickly moved to the parking lot. And uh we were just crazy. We were just insane.
I was just running around. a a was very social to me. It was not about I'm going to die from this.
Um I just got into a lot of trouble. Um when I look back on that, I don't I know I did not understand what it meant to be an alcoholic. I didn't get it at all.
Um I didn't understand what AA was about. And and I don't know if I heard that message or not. What I heard was don't drink, go to meetings.
That's what we do here. And uh you know I had a sponsor which my father picked for me and the only reason I let him pick her for me was he was making financial amends to me for pilfering mine and my brother's trust fund when we were younger and uh you know but getting that amends I was harassing because he was up last weekend or this past last weekend for my anniversary and uh I was harassing because he was making financial amends to me but every time I went to go pick up that check. A lecture ensued, you know, about how I needed to straighten up and fly right and all that other stuff.
And I was like, "Dad, I thought amends were supposed to be free. You know, I know something now." I didn't know anything then, you know, now I know. But anyway, um, so I, you know, that that's what I did in AA.
I ran around, chased boys. Uh, I led a very ugly life sober. I got very very very spiritually sick sober.
Um I was doing things sober that I hadn't even done drunk. Um so I know that alcohol is just a symptom of what's wrong with me. No question.
No question. Um I slowly developed into somebody sober with no conscience. I could do a lot of things and feel nothing whatsoever.
Nothing. stark raven sober, very very sick. So alcoholism is progressive and I need something that's bigger than my alcoholism.
Um so as a result of living that way and you know I'll talk more about that but living that way I drank and it happened just like that. Somebody said do you want to drink? I said yes I do.
Just like that. Three year three and a half years gone. Um and I stayed out there for four years.
I moved to Atlanta. I tried the sheep experiment. it's going to be a sheep herder.
And uh I thought that whole back to nature, cleaning out the barn, hugging trees, that kind of thing was going to solve my problem. It wasn't alcohol. When I drank, my mind uh got around that really quick.
I was too young. Fear sheep drunk. bad idea.
And I say this with all honesty. It's a good thing I wasn't a man. I would have had carnal knowledge of those sheep.
I see how that happens. They look good. They did.
I'm not kidding. Not to offend, but it's true. I remember sitting drunk in one of the sheep uh stalls uh uh just looking at and I I got it.
You know what I mean? Uh but I'm a pig that way. you know what I mean?
So, it wasn't a big jump for me. So, um Atlanta for a couple years. I was went to New York for a couple years.
I hit my bottom in New York. Uh my father in essence 12 sent me back into the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. I wasn't looking for it.
Um I wasn't like, "God, I've had enough." Um the only thing that was different was um I I heard him. Um because I before that I'd been avoiding his calls at all costs and when I got on the phone with him I had very little to say. Um but for some reason that night and I'd been out on a benge and doing what I do when I drink which is raise complete hell and harm everybody in my path.
Um and uh and I said when I moved down to Richmond, Virginia, I'm going to get sober. It never occurred to me that I couldn't make that decision and make it happen. Um because I'd always said, "Oh yeah, I'm going to go back to AA and get sober and then I'd go back to AA for a little while and drink for a little while, not drink for a little while at least." So when I got down to Richmond, I went to an AA meeting and it was the Phoenix group.
I was arising from the ashes. I thought it was very symbolic. No grandiosity here.
And uh anyway, but I felt like I was home. And I'd never felt like that in Alcoholics Anonymous before. And I felt like I was home.
I felt like they read how it works and I felt like I heard it for the very first time. It made sense to me. Um I knew that's where I was supposed to be.
I got a sponsor that night. That's unusual behavior for me. She ended up being committed two weeks later, but she was perfect for me for those first two weeks.
No joke. She crazy. And I was crazy.
bouncing off the walls. Um, but I got sponsored right away. I called her every day.
I did what she asked me to do. I was willing and I ended up drinking two more times and I had no intention of drinking whatsoever. None.
And uh, my last drink actually happened up in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I had gone up there to see an artist. I was representing artists at the time.
And I was in his studio and he had a bottle of Jack in his studio on the table. And he said to me, "Do you want a shot?" I said, "Yes, I do. And um and I wanted to be here.
And for me it was a great experience because you know our our book talks about no matter how great the necessity or the desire, it's not enough for an alcoholic of our type. Um that I truly am powerless over this disease. I did not want to drink.
Everything in me wanted to be an alcoholic synonymous. I was doing exactly what you guys were asking me to do. I wanted to be here.
Um, so anyway, that night, and it was awful, too, because I'd just gotten two shots down, and my now deceased ex-husband showed up to pick me up, and I'd only gotten two shots down, which is the worst, >> interrupting somebody when they've only had two. And um, I was a real nice person the rest of the day. And um later that evening after everybody had gone to bed, I'm going upstairs um to drink because I'm going to finish off the job.
And uh I just asked God for help. I said, "God, help me." And that is the only thing I think that uh kept me from finishing off the job. And I've been sober since then.
It hasn't been necessary for me to take take a drink since then. So, um, sobriety has been really interesting. My sobriety date is October 13, 1992.
So, I just celebrated 15 years. My home group is the Jaywalkers group. Um, we meet on Tuesday nights and on Friday nights, Tuesday nights, we've got a speaker meeting.
It's an hour and a half meeting, two 10-minute speakers, a break, and then our main speaker, our Friday night meeting is a 45minute newcomers meeting. And um and I love that meeting. Uh maybe I'll talk about that more too, but and then we have a 15-minute break and then we have a closed discussion meeting.
Um so my home group just got done meeting. Um and I love them dearly. They have saved my life on numerous occasions.
Um should we take a break? Is it break time? >> All right.
prayed up and you know I'm all nervous and so I want to you know impress you all of course and uh he said that's a waste of your time. Uh so uh but anyway he said I said so Jerry they um they uh they don't allow smoke in this place and he goes great opportunity for you to really practice reliance upon your higher power your creator. I'm like thanks Jerry.
He's been giving me a hard time about uh not smoking for for quite a while. And Don uh used to say to me all the time um about my smoking and go, "You're missing out on some spiritual stuff, kid." Which, you know, tell me what it is. I want to know what it is.
I don't have to stop smoking to figure it out. Just give it to me. Which reminds me of another story with Don.
Um, you know, I was when I when I started getting sponsored by Dawn, uh, I was probably uh, four or five years sober, somewhere around in there. And, um, uh, I remember calling him one day and I'm like, Don, tell me what to do, you know, because I want him to run my life. I want my sponsor to run my life.
I don't want to make any mistakes because if I do the wrong thing, I'm going to experience pain and I don't want to experience pain or discomfort and um I want to do everything perfectly. And I said to Don, "Tell me what to do. Tell me what to do." And um he said to me, "Quit trying.
You're such a thief. Quit trying to steal my experience. Go pray.
Go follow the directions. Go pray. Go get quiet.
Ask for guidance and direction. Follow that. And if it's a wrong thing, you can do something else.
I did not like that direction. I want a sure thing. I want a sure answer.
I want safety in all things. And what I started to learn from that was that uh my creator is within me. While I walk with you guys and travel this path with you guys, I've got this little nest within that I nurture with prayer and being quiet and taking the actions of AA that allow me to go out into the world and live and to carry all these things into all of my affairs so I'm not hiding out in Alcoholics Anonymous.
And that was um I won't say beaten into me, but it was uh I was sponsored strongly with that idea that um I'm not to hide out in aa that I've got to take this way of life and these principles into my work life, into my home life, into my home group, into my relationships with the women I sponsor, um in my friendships, my family. um besides you know my extended family and I've had amazing experiences as a result of just trying to live this way and making many many many mistakes. I was talking to uh Tom yesterday, I used to be so afraid and very rigid.
Don used to tell me all the time, "Lighten up. It's only a matter of life or death here." You know, I didn't like that either. I'm like, "What does that mean?" You know, um I was this big thinker.
Uh, I used to think a lot and try to wrap my mind around this way of life and wrap my mind around spiritual principles and wrap my mind around my creator. Um, because I I want to be God in my life. I want to dictate the path that I will take.
Um, and I also, while we're at it, I'll dictate to you what you need to be doing in order to make my path more comfortable. And you'll love it. It's a great plan.
Once I explain it to you and get you on board, you're going to be really excited about it. Hasn't happened yet. I was talking to Bernardet, too.
I was like, I've always thought I've known what I've needed, and I haven't been right once. Not once. Not even one time.
And that's probably a good thing because then I'd probably try it again. You know what I mean? Think that this is going to be the time again.
Um, what have I found out that AA is all about? What I have found out that AA is all about ultimately is about service. Um, um, that's what it's about in all my affairs.
Period. That's it. and we have these really cool tools that help get me prepared to go do that in the most effective way possible.
Um, and as spiritually fit as I can bring to the table at that moment, but it's about service. And I see a lot of people, even service junkies, who miss that. >> I probably shouldn't say that, but that's what I mean.
Uh, I just got back from assembly, too. That's chalk. Oh god, they're going to hate me for saying this.
Can we mute this? Mute. In my travels in Alcoholics Anonymous, I have noticed that there are service junkies.
And um and after a while, I see them become burnt um on this way of life of just service, service, service, service, service, service, service. And um they become burned out and they and they miss the the spirit of that. So, um, you know, when I was, uh, when I was about three and a half years sober, I started to go insane.
And I should tell you this, I've done AA just about every way that you can do AA. Um, I've done Hazelton, the Hazelton steps. I've done uh Joe and Charlie.
I've done um the seven questions. I have done um the uh course of miracles uh and that that's not all AA but that's the stuff that I was introduced to in AA as this is the way um the 12 and 12 taking the steps out of 12 and 12 uh and God knows what else whatever else I could come up with too probably um so at about three and a half years I started to lose my mind and Um my what I was doing then was uh um bits and pieces of the big book, a meeting every day, pick up a drunk every day, carry him to a meeting every day. Um uh that kind of thing.
And um and I was ready to shoot myself. And uh I thought AA didn't work. Was very angry at God.
I I thought like uh I've been doing all this in AA. Look at everything that I've been doing. Why is this happening to me?
Why is this happening? Um I was on the floor like suicidal depressed on the floor. It was absolutely my dark night.
Everything that I had a dependency on was taken away. Um I know what it means to be in sobriety, to have nothing, to be stripped of everything. No car, no job, no money, no place to live.
People in AA saying, "Go away. You need to be committed. You're crazy." Um, stay away from her.
She's really sick. She will bring you down. Um, and I was crazy.
I got really, really nuts. And, uh, started carrying a gun again. That's not a good idea.
It's a bad idea. um very paranoid and and would just uh just go from complete rage and just I can't y'all know what I'm talking about and then just on the floor just wanted to die and if this is it I don't want it and one night I set out purposely to drink and it didn't happen. Shortly after that, I met Camille Frey in Louisville, Kentucky.
And that woman saved my life. I met her at a conference that I didn't want to go to. And um she looked at me and she goes, "Girl, you're a mad dog alcoholic and you're going to die." She sounded like a bad Louisiana psychic.
You're going to die unless you get into Yeah. unless you get into all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I'm like, I am in all three parts of AA.
And it doesn't work. And um she uh but I but I heard hope in her because she was sharing her story and she talked about being 12 years sober sitting with a shotgun waiting for her man to walk in the door cuz she was going to blow the old boy away. And I identified with that and um I said I love her.
She understands me. And I asked her to help me. And my life has never been the same since.
So, so what I did, I borrowed money and I went out to see her in Louisville, Kentucky. And she talked to me. She talked about being in all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous.
I had never heard that before. I'm like, what are you talking about? And um you know, and she talked to me about our our circle and triangle and about recovery and and she asked me some questions about, well, what have you done with the steps?
Tell me about that. Well, there's some things I left off inventory and this is how I wrote it. And I wrote it.
The last inventory I done was the check mark thing. And um but there were things that I had left off of that. And there were amends that I was never ever I mean ever going to make.
They owed me amends. And I had a lot of whole choice lovely words that started with MF that went along with those people. And um it was not going to happen.
And um and she didn't fight me with that. She said, "Well, if I'm walking with you, you do it or see you later. Love you.
Mean it. Don't waste my time." And um it was good that she spoke to me in that way because I don't know that I would have heard it any other way. Uh, and you know, she talked to me about the unity piece of of this program.
And unity was about convenience to me. That's how I conducted myself in Alcoholics Anonymous. I showed up late.
I would leave early sometimes. Um, I was at my home group. that was not a committed meeting to me unless I was there unless I was really tired or uh I had something better to do, something better came up.
Um and she told me, she goes, "You will be there unless you were dead sick or out of town." And I'm like, "That's harsh." And she goes, "And when I say sick, I mean sick, not any of this mambby pami stuff you like to pull." And she had me nailed because I like mami pami. I don't feel good today, you know. I hurt today.
You know, what's my favorite ailment? You know, um and uh she said, you know, how are you being of service to alcoholics anonymous? Are you a taker in AA?
And hell yeah, I'm a taker in AA. Yeah, I am. What do you I give when it's convenient to me.
Are you willing to be inconvenienced by Alcoholics Anonymous? Are you be willing to be inconvenienced by the newcomer? So, I was so desperate.
Thank God for desperation. I said, "I will go anywhere and do anywhere and do anything that you're asking me to do." And she says, "Well, we're going to start at the beginning and when where it says write, we're going to write. When it says pray, we're going to pray.
When it asks a question, we're going to answer it. When it says go here and do that, we're going to go there and do that." And that's that's the deal. Are you willing?
And I said, "Yes, I am." And uh so I I started taking the steps uh out of the big book um ever since then and it changed my life. Uh so that's the message that I carry today. Um she had me do a lot of things that I didn't understand and I didn't agree with.
Uh you know and one of the things that she said to me, she goes, "Well, Val, you know, they're not lying in the big book. What they're saying in there is true. You know, Valerie." And she put it in terms that I could understand.
If it said uh that sleeping with newcomers was a great way to gain spirituality, it's be there, wouldn't it? But it's not cuz it doesn't work. You know what I mean?
So she put it in terms I could understand. She she had me now. Um so and my life was a train wreck.
Train wreck. I didn't know how to live at all. I mean, unmanageability everywhere.
Everywhere. I And very angry. I was telling Tom, I'm happy to report that I haven't had the cops called on me in a long time because I, if you pissed me off, I'd go after you physically.
Um, and I'm, you know, something that Don used to say, I'm just not capable of doing that anymore. I I couldn't do that even if I wanted to. Um, and and that's absolutely God changing me because that's how I handled anger.
Um, ever since I can remember. Um, if you made me mad, I was coming to get you. And I saw real value in that.
Uh, one of the things that I love about our fourth step is that I can't fool myself about the value of my character defects anymore. And with my anger for a long time, I still had a lot of value with that. And uh because it it kept you off balance and if I scared you bad enough, you do what I wanted you to do.
Um it keep you away from me. If I needed to get you away from me, I could get my way with it. And where I hit bottom with that is I was around seven years sober and I was at my home group and um there was a woman who came in and it was a closed discussion meeting and uh she was introducing herself as an addict and it was my duty after the meeting being little Miss AA that I have now graduated to because I am armed with facts now.
I'm dangerous. You know what I'm saying? I know something now.
I'm on fire. And uh truly, I was like I became a little, you know, I hate to use the term, but it's true. I mean, and that's how I was labeled, too.
I became a big book Nazi. And uh hate to use that word, but that's you get the picture. Big books thumper.
I was a thumper. And uh anyway, so this this gal says to me and the traditions too and I'm laying down the AA law and I'm coming after the people that are trying to destroy AA and I'm going to save them. I'm going to set them straight, you know.
So I was on a mission and uh anyway, so uh so this gal, she introduced herself as an addict in the meeting. It's a closed meeting of AA. So after the meeting, I thought it was my personal responsibility as a good homegroup member to go up and inform her of her error.
And so I go up and I say something to her and and she says, "Um, you the AA police? You can't tell me what to do. I can come into this meeting.
I can do whatever I want." I'm like, "Are you talking to me right now? Are you talking to me?" And uh uh she went on and on and I mean I was like a peacock. It just went and uh I was mad.
And then then I then it then it began where I'm going to rip off your top part except I was voicing it very loud. I'm going to rip it off and shove it up your bottom part. other home group members are running around.
Little kids are running around because we have babysitting at our meeting. Uh people that came to visit the meeting that were trying to get off the ground and it's a big book meeting which was like oo taboo in Richmond for a very long time. We didn't talk about that stuff.
So, we got people visiting trying to check it out and uh and that's the example of solid big book AA that I'm demonstrating and I mean I'm yelling and screaming at the top of my lungs and cussing up one side and down the other and then the guy that brought her I get a hold of him and I'm yelling and screaming at him and ripping him a new one and uh just going to town and uh I don't know who stopped me. Um, but I got separated from that situation and went into the bathroom to pray and I knew right away I was wrong. Knew right away.
And um, I made amends right away and I went back out there and and they uh, she has never come back to that meeting. Um, the guy has come back with his new woman. Um, and he stays far away from me and um, and I've talked to him several times since then and just, you know, I was dead wrong.
You know, what can I do? Is there anything I can do to make it right? I scared the bees out of me.
And, um, I'm lucky they didn't call the cops that night. I really am. And I had to get up in the morning and make amends to the parents and the home group members.
And uh I was um I was in bad shape with that. I paid an awful awful price with that spiritually and emotionally. And uh and I and I I and I haven't had that since.
And I I'll never forget calling Don the next day and the only thing that he asked me was, "Why were you so threatened?" And that's a great question to ask. When I'm ready to when I'm ready to go to war, why am I so threatened? Because I like going to war.
War is fun. You know, I can get a lot of power out of going to war, especially if I think I'm right. Um, so that was and I've never forgotten that question.
And I ask that of myself frequently. Where why do I feel so threatened right now? What's going on?
Is it break time yet? >> It's break time. Yay.
>> Smoker's tribe. Um, well, I have no idea what to say now. Um, you know, where do you start?
And I'm just praying um and asking that my creator guide me and direct me. >> Do we have a question from the crowd? >> You are going to tell us why you were threatened.
Oh, I was um well, what came out of that is um I was afraid that I was doing it wrong. I was afraid I was wrong and um that she was right. And uh my beliefs and convictions were so new.
I was so very fragile with them, I think. And anybody that questioned me on my newfound fire and passion, um I would automatically get into an argument with them and defend uh my experience or my actually it was my newfound knowledge and um so I think that was a large part of it was what if I'm wrong? And um and I didn't like it.
I didn't know what to do and people disagreed. All I knew how to do was go to war if you disagreed with me. And um very very invested in being right.
And that little saying around aa I thought was just complete hoie. You know would you rather be right or happy? And I'm like what kind of choice is that?
You know I mean that that made no sense to me whatsoever. I thought that was pretty mambby pami response. Um, something that my current sponsor today, Jerry, said to me, um, I don't know, I have my knickers in a twist about, but um, I was probably defending something.
And, um, he said, "Valerie, what I have learned is that everybody's right. Everybody's right, even when they're wrong." I was like, "Whoa, that's true." And I like that. even when they're wrong cuz I want to hang my hat on that, you know, um cuz I still got a little oomph there.
But, uh more and more I see how true that is. Um that I that I we really do cease fighting anything or anyone. Um which is paramount for somebody like me to cease fighting.
And every time I have ceased fighting, it's always worked out fine. and usually in ways that um I didn't expect and and better than than anything I could have planned. I used to hate to hear that too.
God's will for you is better than anything you could have play. And uh I remember too I used to have some real issues with the spiritual way of life or with this God reliance thing. And um I was very afraid of God.
And I remember calling Don up one time and was very uptight, you know, very rigid kind of a girl. And um and I don't remember what was going on. All I knew was that I was praying and I wanted relief from my mind and from my emotions because they were on me like this.
I couldn't get them off. So I'm praying and I'm afraid that I'm praying wrong. I want to pray just right.
I gotta say it perfectly or I'm gonna get no relief. And um and I called him up and I said, "I'm praying and it's not working. You know, this stuff, you know, you seem to have some kind of special connection to God.
I do not have that." And uh he said, "Well, Valerie," and I've been through the steps by this point several times um out of out of our big book. And um uh so I was surprised to find myself in this place and I was surprised at what came out of my mouth actually cuz intellectually I knew differently. But out of my mouth he goes, "Well, what are you praying to?
Tell me about what you're praying to. Tell me about your conception of God." And I said, "God is is punishing and God is vindictive. And if you don't do this spiritual stuff just right, you're never going to go anywhere and you're never going to be happy and you got to suffer for God and you got to suffer for a spiritual way of life." I mean, just like all this stuff came out and it was not a good story, you know.
And um he said to me, he said, "Valerie, you've got God set up as a version of you." And I was like, "Wow, that's a low blow. Thanks." Um, but that was true because I am all of those things. I am vindictive, punishing, play favorites.
Like, I thought there were the halves and the have nots in the spiritual life. And I would always be a have not. I would always be somebody who was struggling with this spiritual answer.
I would never get it. And you know, I'd hear these great speakers that I just adored in Alcoholics Anonymous who seemed to get it. And um I just used to, you know, uh judge them because I I wanted what they had, but I didn't understand how they got that.
And I thought it will happen for them, but it's never going to happen for me. And then, you know, Camille said to me, "Well, are you willing to do what they have done? If you want what they have, are you willing to do what they have done?
And also, you know, I was never happy where I was at. When I was two years sober, I want to be 20 years sober. I was five years sober, I want to be 25 years sober.
Um, not comfortable at all where I'm at currently today. I always wanted to be somewhere different, different and better. In my mind, it was different and better.
Um now I understand a little bit more about the journey and being present in today. Um I and also today um very grateful for my character defects um and and not afraid of suffering at all. And that's a complete change for someone like me.
um because I would try to control my experience and my life so to insulate myself from that stuff and um because I want to feel good all the time. Um unless I'm on a tear. If I'm on a tear, the worse I feel the better.
And I like to nurse it in and I like to feed it. feel some misery with it, go down dark with it, go on to lock down, you know what I mean? Um, so and I can find power in that, too.
Uh, love to be the victim of my own my own mind, you know, and we're always me. It's a son of a being me, you know what I mean? So full of And um, but anyway, so uh, so I don't fear suffering at all.
Well, not that I'm asking for any to be delivered. Um, but when it comes, I it's okay. Um, I know that there is another side to that.
And I don't care when it shows up. I'm not attached to a time frame anymore. Like, I'd be like watching, waiting.
I don't feel better today. I don't feel better today. When's this going to get better?
I'm working with newcomers. When's it going to get better? I'm throwing myself into aa when's it going to get better?
You know, all that stuff that we get told to do. Well, go find a newcomer, you know, get your head out of your buttocks. Go work with a newbie, you know, uh go pick up some drunk and take them to the meeting.
Um do you have inventory to write? Do you have, you know, whatever? Do you have unfinished amends?
I mean, I can get so wound tight with have I done this perfectly cuz I shouldn't be feeling this. I'm feeling this, so something's wrong, you know? I mean, and going into a mental whirlwind, my friend calls it a psychic storm, and I like that.
That that describes it perfectly. Um, so today, I just don't fight with that much anymore. Um, and I have a my faith has changed.
You know, one of the things that I love in the um we agnostics where it talks about we have to make that that step from bridge to shore. And for me, what that meant is I had to leave my mind and what I knew and and really start to trust this voice that was starting to talk to me within because it was starting to happen. And all my life I had been running from that, running, running, running.
And then it got so bad where it was just completely shut off where it was gone, you know, and I come back into day and it starts to open up a little bit more. I start to have a conscience again. I can't do the same things that I used to be able to do.
And um it was frightening for me to start trusting that. Um, and I remember too uh um this one instance and and it kind of changed my faith and was like a stepping stone for me. Um where I trusted my gut and what I was being directed to do and on paper it was something that someone like me should not be doing.
And Don used tell me all the time, Valerie, and this had to do with work. Follow your heart's desire. do what God intended you to do.
Uh, we all have a contribution to make. We've all been given the gift to do it. Go do it.
Well, I can't do that. I dropped out of high school. You got to be educated to go do this.
Um, there's no way it's going to work out. Um, you know, at that point, uh, Camille had made me go back and get my GED in sobriety. I had dropped out of high school a long time ago.
And um but Don said this is about the world of the spirit. I I don't care what you think you know about this. Um because I shared with him about what was going on in my gut and and it was to go teach.
It was to and I couldn't go teach because I didn't have a college education. So my next option was to be a trainer and um so I started interviewing these trainers and finding out what they did and all this stuff and doing some volunteer training and correctional facilities. Now that's a joke.
I have to tell you about that. I digress for one second. This this but it was a good thing because then we got a meeting started in the jail.
So I got I did this volunteer training and I go in to do this training and it's about uh with offenders if you it's moral psychology. If you help them to understand the consequences of their behavior in the impact that it has on other people they will go forth and never sin again. >> And I'm reading this stuff going this is a croca poo.
I can't train this. we're starting a meeting in here because most of the people that were in that room were um addicts and alcoholics and and I just could not in good conscience continue on with that training. So we started a meeting and I didn't do that training and uh but anyway so but I was willing to put myself out there.
I was willing to follow my gut and everything in the world told me you can't do it. People in the world said it can't be done. You don't have an education.
you have no experience. And Don said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Put it together and send it out.
Put together your skills and send it out." And I did. And I got a job two weeks later. I was I couldn't believe it.
And making more money than I'd ever made in my life. And I was making it honestly, which was a different experience for me. And um was learning how to become self-supporting through my own contributions.
All my life I've been a thief all in every way that you can be a thief. Um I stole from everybody. I was an equal opportunity thief.
I didn't care. Uh I'd steal from anybody under any circumstances at any time and I did. Um, so anyway, so I've learned how to I've grown up in AA, I guess, and learned how to become self-supporting through my own contributions, like pay my bills.
Um, not be a spiritual thief, um, not be an emotional thief. You know, I used to go to people, tell me what to think, tell me what to believe, you know, all that stuff, you know, and and thank God for strong sponsorship that said, you know what, I'm I you go figure it out and let me know. Um, and I'm not I don't mean that to say that I didn't get strong direction.
I got very strong direction, but like um they knew when to let me go. Um, they knew that line. And I and I think as a sponsor, you know, it's a conversation that I have with Jerry, you know, when am I giving direction and then when am I trying to run their life and um sometimes it seems like a very fine line and which requires so much prayer.
Um which is good thing about sponsorship. The little shits will make you pray. Um so um that probably wasn't very nice, was it?
But it's true, you know. Um, but I went off on a tangent. So anyway, so my that was like a a turn for me that trusting God was good.
That trusting God was okay. That really what God has planned for me really is anything. It's better than anything I can come up with.
It really is. And so I don't fear God's will anymore. I used to be afraid of God's will.
I was like, "Oh my god, that means I'm going to have to never have sex again in my life. I'm going to have to be a nun in South America and be poor." That was my vision of doing God's will. It was bad, you know.
And I'm like, I can't what an order. I can't go. And you know, and and Don said to me, "Is it possible that maybe God's already got somebody going down there doing that?" and if you were directed to do that that it would be okay.
And my god that sounds better than what you got going on anyway right now, you know, which was true. Which was true. So my recovery life has been has been uh all over the map.
Uh a lot of different things. Um which I guess we'll talk more about tomorrow um when we start to get into those steps a little bit more deeply. Um, and I Is everybody tired or not tired?
You want me to keep going? I'm trying to Because it's Friday. I'm fine.
I can keep going. >> Keep going. >> Keep going.
Okay. Well, y'all leave if you're tired, right? >> When the room starts to thin, I'll shut up.
>> Um, so what else? Is anybody here questioning whether they're an alcoholic? Leo's going.
If Leo's going, it's time to go. You just hurt my feelings. I'm kidding.
Um, is anybody here not clear on whether they're an alcoholic or questioning that? Is everybody think it's okay to question whether you're an alcoholic? >> Sweet.
See, y'all are like on the page. Actually, I think it's time to stop cuz I'm done on the inside. It's done.
It's quiet. There's nothing else coming. >> So, I'm done.
Um, and telling stories and stuff. And just about our our alcoholic mind or our mind that is just unbelievably insane. And the stuff that we come up with that really seems like a good idea.
Um, it's always entertaining till we go to jail. Uh, but anyway, so really really excited excited about being here. Um, uh, it's just really neat.
It's really neat and it's neat to be with um, AA family out west that that I didn't know really well yet. And um, I run around a lot on the east coast and it's just it's been really neat. um and getting to spend time with you guys out here.
And AA has become my family. I I never fit in anywhere else. I desperately tried to and wanted to, but I never fit in every anywhere else.
I was always um um very awkward and uh never really fit in with a group and and I would move from group of people to group of people to group of people either by the consequence of my actions, you know, I'd wear out my welcome in a group. Um and I was just weird. I was just strange and um always doing and saying the wrong thing.
and um and their things would go missing. So um you know just never not a very nice person at all and just very awkward. And when I got into AA, you know, and started to recover and started to get well and and really started to be a part of this incredible fellowship that we have and started to be a a um a member of of life and it was because of what happened to me in Alcoholics Anonymous.
So, um when I go to work today, I don't feel like odd man out. I don't feel separated from everybody. Um, when I'm with my family and they're all lunatics, um, I I don't feel like odd man out or that I have to change them or or whatever.
I'll talk more about that, but and that's just because of what Alcoholics Anonymous has done for me. And I found that first here. um that sense of understanding um and acceptance and then being shown a way to live um that I just could not find before.
Um and the only place I ever got relief from all the uncomfortability was of course through alcohol. Um so I want to tell you a little bit about my experience with these steps. When I um got sober this last time, I was really uh desperate and and willing to go to any length.
Um if if and this is crazy, but if people had told me, Valerie, if you go stand in the corner on your head and that's going to keep you sober, I would have done it. I had gotten to that point where I was willing to go anywhere or do anything if it meant that I didn't have to be me anymore um or lead the life that I was leading. Um I was married at that time.
I'd had my son was two. Um, my life was very ugly, but on the outside it looked great. Um, my first husband made pretty good money.
Um, but I was not a good wife. I was not a good mother. Um, I was one of those women that would drop their kid off and say, "I'll be back in a couple hours." And and not come back.
I'd come back when I was done drinking. And sometimes I'd be 10 hours later. Sometimes it'd be a day and a half later.
Sometimes I'd only be an hour late. But once I started drinking, something happened where I had to keep drinking. And again, I don't I don't care what the price is.
I have to pay that. I just don't care. Um, and that's the point I got to.
I really didn't care. And I would show remorse if it was fitting. Um, if it was if I could get you off my back.
Um, when I would get into arguments with Steve, who was my first husband, about my drinking and stuff, and come home, be a good wife, this isn't what I signed up for. Um, you know, I'd do whatever I had to do to appease him so I could go out and and do what I wanted to do. And um, and I did exactly what I wanted to do.
Uh, I absolutely did not consider other people or um the harm I was causing him or my son at all. Um, that's that's not a nice person. And for a long time, I had this delusion that I was a nice person, that I was a good person.
And I'm not left on my own steam. I am not a kind person at all. Um, I will be like the tornado like our book talks about running through your life.
As a matter of fact, when I went to go make amends to him, he told me, he goes, Valerie, that four years I was with you were the worst four years of my life. That's not a stunning recommendation. You know what I mean?
Because we do, we run through people's lives and just and create all kinds of damage and then completely arrogant about it. Like, get over it. Get over it.
And I really used to feel that way and think that way. Get over it. I've been appropriately sorry.
I've been appropriately remorseful. Get over it. And getting mad at you for still being mad at me.
You know, that's why I love, you know, when we're new and we come into AA, it's like, God, I've been sober a whole three months and they still won't they don't trust me. You know, they still won't talk to me. You know, we're such idiots with that stuff.
And I mean it took five years before my mom I think really believed that I was sober and um not going to take something from her. Um so and that's been an incredible demonstration in my in my family. But so um when I got here I was really willing um and I got a sponsor and I told you about that last night.
She got committed and then I got another gal who ended up not being an alcoholic. She ended up leaving Alcoholics Anonymous. Her name was Joanne.
She was just having a rough patch. Um, and she came into AA and um, you know, just a small suicide attempt and uh, with some booze involved, but she truly she wasn't one of us. She was just having a rough patch.
Uh, but she was an AA and running around and and she sponsored me for a while and called her every day and I thought she was an alcoholic because she told me she was and um and uh you know and she took me through the steps out of Hazelton. About nine months sober, I lost my mind um and started bouncing off the walls really really bad. And um and I had left Steve once I sobered up.
I left my first husband. I left him and um started doing some construction work and cleaning houses and stuff. I didn't know anything about living in the world at all.
I didn't know how to pay bills, uh do a checkbooking and that stuff cuz I always found somebody to take care of me. Um so I didn't know anything about that like paying rent and paying it on time and you get in trouble if you don't. Uh that kind of stuff.
um that I have to actually be responsible for a car and making sure it's legal. I had no clue about that stuff. I'm happy to report that my car is completely legal today.
All speeding tickets have been paid cuz that's for a long time. I mean, nothing was legal. I didn't pay my tickets when I left California.
And I and I this was sober before. Well, my friend in North Carolina calls it um so dryy. >> I'm sober, but I'm dry.
so dry. Um, but when I left California, when I was sober for that three and a half years, I I think I had 13 warrants out for my arrest. Um, when I left that, I had racked up stark craving sober and just not paying attention.
The rules don't apply to me, you know? I just throw that stuff away and keep going, you know. Um, but anyway, um, I feel like Tom this morning.
I'm like, here's a story, then I jump over this story, and then I go over to this story. Uh, so, uh, so I left Steve and I'm learning how to live. I'm learning how to work a little bit.
I'm not very good at it at all. I'm not very good at showing up on time. Still not very good at being where I'm supposed to be when I say I'm going to be there.
Um, a lot of times I don't feel like working, so I don't. You might get a call from me, you might not. Uh, but I was going to a meeting and wanted to be here.
you know, and and something, you know, sometimes I forget when I'm working with new people and it talks about us in in our I think it's in one of the prefaces that we are very ill when we get here. Very sick people. I mean, I don't know anybody who comes into AA on a winning streak, you know, and AA is not known as an emotional and mental hotbed of great mental health.
You know what I'm saying? so that when we get here, we we are we're we're sick people. Um, and uh, you know, to be compassionate and to remember, um, so, uh, so I'm nine months sober and I'm starting to go a little mad and and, uh, I started going to this big book meeting called, uh, the fourth dimension and it got started and they, they were big book something and all this good stuff and it was great.
You know, I had no idea that how it works was in the big book. I'd heard it read in meetings for years. Had no clue.
I mean, if you want to hide some from a drunk, stick it in the big book, right? It's the last place they're ever going to look. And um not a clue.
So, it was a real it was magic for me because I started to I was like, "Oh my god, there's directions in here." The first directions I discovered in the big book were the 11th step directions. And I started practicing those and I just had a blast. I just had a great time and I and I kind of had a spiritual experience and I didn't kind of I did.
I I woke up a little bit. Um before where God was very nebulous and it's like yeah God got it whatever. I'll pray because you tell me to.
Um I had an experience and it was like God is here. You know it was like a big blinking sign. And it's like I woke up inside that there was something going on here.
Got excited about AA. Got excited that there were these directions in there and um uh just started on that path and being a member of that home group. And I had at that time too, I switched sponsors again because Joanne had gone out and uh that sponsorship line that I was in was very very big on um commitment and that's where I really started to learn about um respect for Alcoholics Anonymous um and being committed in AA.
Um, that's when those ideas started being introduced to me and I didn't fully surrender to those because they were a tad inconvenient. Um, but I started to hear that message. Um, and was held somewhat accountable to that stuff.
Um, so I'm I'm going along in in sobriety and of course I've gotten into a relationship and he's the one And oh, it is absolutely God's will. We've been on, you know, two dates. We've slept together, of course, and uh it was magic and he understands me.
And I think I even said to my sponsor at the time, Nancy, I know it's God's will. I know God's director because we just connected. And um and I've never had sex like that before in my life.
And I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm sure she was like, "Yeah, whatever." Uh, but I'm glad that nobody can see that on tape what I just did. But anyway, um, you know, and and she had been around, so she was laughing. You know, it was funny, but I, you know, we really believed that, you know, we really believe that this is God's will.
And so, I got into this relationship and, and it was insane. And of course, we moved in with each other right away. Um, you know, with that joke with you get two alcoholics together, you know, at the end of the first date, do you say the Lord's Prayer?
Do you pack up the U-Haul, you know, and and move in? Um, we packed up the U-Haul and and he was at home living with his mama and daddy and I'm like trying to learn how to live, could barely pay rent. And I mean, it was just it was crazy.
It was insane. But it made it seemed like a great idea at the time and um you know and we're different. I I you know I listen to other people's experience in AA and I listen to my sponsor's experience and I'm different and I just I remember thinking that I am different.
What you're saying does not apply to me. I'm going to do it different. I'm listening to all the mistakes you made.
I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do it different because this is true love. True love.
And um so anyway, disaster, disaster ensues. Why? Because I don't have a relationship with God.
It's brand new. It's just a baby. Just a baby relationship.
And of course, this man becomes my higher power, you know. and I start worshiping at the altar of Alex and um uh gets very sick. Um I start missing out on my commitments in aa um start getting into arguments.
So I don't I don't go to the meeting or I don't talk to that new girl because we're arguing. That's more important that we get this thing resolved. Um, which and it never never got resolved that way ever.
Um, so just a a lot just crazy time. Um, you know, and then you know the big dramatic breakups. Well, I'm going to go find some strange cuz I'm mad at you cuz I like to retaliate.
So, I'll go back to what I know. I'll just go find me a new boyfriend. That'll show you.
And um I might do it so you can catch me and I might not. You know, want to keep you off bound so you never know really what's going on. Uh cuz that's how I like to maintain control.
And uh it's just insane and and and having a hard time working and you know because that becomes paramount in my life. That becomes the allimp important thing. So I hit around three years.
It's another breakup. It's nasty. Um, it's ugly.
And I just I hit another bottom in in AA and and it was good. It's the most painful thing I've ever gone through in sobriety. Um, and it took me uh a while.
Sometimes I even hate to talk about how long it took me to come out of that. Um, and a lot of the reason why is because I added to it. um by the bucketload.
Um but it was the turning point in my sobriety and I am forever grateful for all of that stuff that went down at that time. Um so at that that time the sponsorship that I was in involved in um was about a meeting every day. Didn't really do the big book.
Um it was about go find a new drunk and carry him to a meeting and um write me a letter once a week and let me know what's going on. And uh I would started uh stealing in earnest again. Um I started going to work and say I was uh I was working for a film producer at the time and I said well I'm going to go into DC and make some calls on some prospective clients.
He did corporate films and stuff, you know, try to find some and and then I'd just go home and get in bed, not go to work. Um, and I talked about that a little bit last night. I uh stop eventually stopped working, couldn't work.
Um, everybody in AA that I knew, my behavior became so bizarre that they were literally I was disowned by everyone I knew in AA. Um, you know, stay away from me. Um, I started getting uh my anger started showing up in earnest.
Small anger problem, small one. Um, I wasn't welcome at the the Rebo Center, the sober center. Um, it was just a really ugly time.
It was a really painful time, you know, and he had left and he had started dating someone else. >> Oh, I know that's a bad one. So what's my what's her natural response?
I will stalk you. So you know how I added to that was, you know, by hiding behind bushes and underneath cars and vandalizing his things and and um scaring him. I mean he >> laughing.
I know it's true story. Uh, and I mean, and he told me later, he's like, "You know, I was afraid." He goes, "I didn't know what you were going to do." He goes, "It was terrifying. I didn't know what you were going to do, what you were capable of doing.
You were so weird. I mean, I had like bad vibes coming off of me. Um, I'd go into the meetings where him and that girl were and I'd just like stare hate, you know, and and hope that they were feeling it, you know, cuz I'd been wronged and, you know, and I was like the the bad person.
I was like the crazy person. And then he was the angel. And I'm like, you're all wrong.
And I wanted to show them what a you know, whatever. I wanted to prove to them to everybody in AA that he was bad, you know, and I was the victim and and how can y'all do this to me and I just it was just crazy. And then I met Camille and uh um and literally the woman saved my life.
If if I hadn't met her, I know I'd be drunk or dead. No question in my mind. No question.
Because that's where I was headed. As I got very angry at AA and very angry at God. I didn't understand why all that was happening to me.
I thought God was punishing me. Um, I thought that AA didn't work. That all you guys were a bunch of hypocrites.
That you guys didn't walk what you talked. That I was in real trouble and you weren't helping me. You were just standing back there judging me.
Um, and I was in real trouble. And uh, I tell you, Camille likes the crazy ones, I guess, cuz she just scooped me up. And uh she didn't pat me on the tutu or anything.
She told me, you know, you're going to die. You're in real trouble. And uh there's some real work that we got to do here.
So, um, I I became willing to do what she asked me to do and and she laid it out clearly that, you know, and that was, uh, good for me to see because I used to chase people down. Um, chase them down and like try to make them get this thing and really attached to whether they got it or or they didn't. Um, and and really wanted them to to have what I had found.
And I started thinking about my experience with Camille and Dawn. They could have cared less. And it wasn't that they didn't love me.
Um, they did, but they knew that this wasn't about them. Um, that either I was willing to do what they did or I wasn't. And it started to teach me a lot about sponsorship.
Like today, um, I used to be very, very rigid in my sponsorship. And I mean, I was planning out their life for them and this is what they were going to do. And I have a pretty strong personality and I can be a real steamroller, you know, and and I'm not past shaming you into taking what I the action I think you should take.
I mean, and it was just I was just like held bent on it. and um or I guilt you or whatever, you know, you will get this brand of AA, you know, cuz you will wake up spiritually as I have and if you haven't, if this isn't happening, then we've missed something and we're going back. And I mean, just crazy.
Um really, really wound tight and rigid. Uh you know, and Don used to tell me all the time, lighten up, it's only a matter of life or death. It's okay.
Um so but what I've learned today is that with sponsorship it's like uh you know it's something I choose like for me today with my sponsor Jerry today I choose to be accountable to him. He doesn't enforce that on me. I choose it.
It's my choice. Um he can't force me to be honest with him. I choose that.
Um, he can't force me to do what I know I need to do in Alcoholics Anonymous. I choose that. Um, so it's like my life becomes an open book to my sponsor no matter what.
I don't sit around and wait for my sponsor to chase me down and uh pull out the secrets of my heart. And you know, I was famous for pouting in the corner like notice that I'm in pain. come try to save me and fix me and delve into my psyche and fix the wounded bird that I am.
You know, that's what I would do. Or I'd just make up some crazy because I thought that that's what you needed to hear. So you talk to me, you know what I mean?
Something had to be going on and it needed to be bad, you know? Uh so you know um it's I so I've freed up a lot in terms of sponsorship which is in in my understanding of sponsorship which is free me up with the people that I sponsor. Um so but I'll talk more about that later.
But anyway, so Camille had me um uh drive out to Louisville, Kentucky. So, I went on out there, borrowed some money and went out there. And um she sat me down and, you know, she started talking to me about all three parts of Alcoholics Anonymous and what was I actually doing in all three parts.
And I had been at at that point in in bits and pieces of the big book, but not the whole enchilada. Um, and I didn't even realize there really was a whole enchilada. Um, because it just hadn't been explained to me that way.
So when she started taking me through the book and especially the first step, I don't think I think I was almost four years sober before not I think I know I was almost four years sober before I really took a first step at depth where I knew I was an alcoholic and accepted that at depth and everything that that means that I'm absolutely 100% screwed on my own power. No, no question. And the unmanageability, but the powerlessness over alcohol.
I had never gotten that before. Um, and I hadn't heard about it talked in that way in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. And Camille used to tell me all the time, she goes, "Valerie, the big book is the greatest AA sifter there is.
If you can't reconcile in the big book what you hear in a meeting, then it's not AA." you know, that they they wrote it down in black and white for us and put it in the big book so we wouldn't mess it up. Um, you know, read the black part, you know, and and then we'll talk about that. Uh, yeah, don't get lost in the white because that's what I like to do because I like to interpret, you know, and add to and um, you know, Don used to say, Valerie, the dumber you are here, the better.
So, uh, cuz I like I I call him sometimes I'd be just like on an intellectual rant. He's like, "I have no idea what you're talking about right now. Makes no sense at all." But I was like, it made perfect sense to me at the time.
I knew too when I call him that I was in trouble if he go, "Did you hear what you just said? Did you hear that?" And I'm like, "What? What?
What?" and we'd talk about what a you know what crazy stuff was coming out of my mouth or if he'd say uh or if he'd say um let's talk about that and I being you know goofy be like yeah let's talk about that and then I finally figured out Elkins trained me up to this that that means shut up he's got something to tell you you know but I'm like yeah let's talk about it my sponsor's on my side you know so anyway I started you know and sorry I didn't about this uh recovery unity service this mind body spirit 12 steps 12 traditions 12 concepts I didn't know anything about the 12 concepts um you know and she you know she told me you get into all three parts of these things to the best of your ability the circle represents wholeness you will become whole your life will become whole your spirit will become whole and that's what's happened to me and I was just terribly broken and um and felt very hopeless, sober. So, it was great promise to me. Um it took me a long time to come out of that depression.
Um and and several times going through the steps. Uh and I'm and this is my experience. Um there were a lot of people that were around me that said, "Valerie, you need to be medicated." because I I was suicidal.
I mean, I was thinking about suicide every day. Um, and one of the things that was given to me, and I don't know why I trusted it, but I did. Um, they said, "If you will give this an opportunity, if you will go through this, and if you're still if there's still no hope after this, then we'll go look into that.
But let's give this an opportunity first." And I was just willing. I said, "Okay." Um, as a result, and I've been depressed ever since I was a little kid. Um, but, you know, so I'll never forget the day that I I realized that I hadn't thought about suicide in a long time.
It was like a spiritual awakening for me. I haven't thought about suicide in a long time. It was awesome.
It was incredible. Um, and I I'm somebody with suicide attempts in the past. have been hospitalized around that stuff several times.
So I know the power of alcoholics anonymous and I know the power of these instructions and the power of getting a relationship with my creator changed me did something to this up here. I got that psychic change that is so necessary for us because my best thinking is I want to die. Um, so I know that this stuff works and my depression, the longer I'm sober, becomes less and less and less and less.
I'll get bouts of it here and there. They may last a day, sometimes two days. A prayer that Don gave me was, "God, help me not to get depressed about being depressed because God knows I like to nurse my misery sometimes." Why do we do that?
I don't know. I don't know. Um, and you know, and so she uh she helped me uh look up the word textbook.
Um, and I got to tell you, I went through this phase um with the big book um where I looked up every single word and um was just like really anal retentive with it. That's why I was so rigid. Um just incredibly anal.
I mean, it was tight, you know what I mean? And um and it was a good experience, you know, and I was a little big book evangelist and all that stuff and got a really bad reputation in AA. You know, they didn't like me when I was crazy.
They definitely didn't like me when I turned into a big book thumper. It's like what's worse? We don't know.
Just go away. Um, so, um, but that and I love this definition of textbook, you know, and I Camille had me go buy an old dictionary. She said, "Go find an old dictionary in in one of those flea markets or one of those antique bookstores from the 30s." So, I've gotten a couple of those.
But, I love this definition of textbook. It says it's meant to be done in order. Steps are meant to be done in order.
It's information to transmit to me information about a topic which I know nothing about. What do I know nothing about? I don't know anything about living sober comfortably.
Nothing. I don't even know how to live. One of the my favorite lines in we agnostics which resonated with me.
I was like that is me. I had to find a power by which I could live because I don't live well at all on my own. I I create havoc um internally and out here.
Um so yeah, that that's right. That's me. And to transmit an experience and um you know, and the directions are there for to to transmit a spiritual experience to all of us, you know, and am I willing to pay the price because there is definitely a price to pay here.
and uh some days I'm more willing than others. Hello. So, she got me into that and of course, you know, we did the diagnosis of the problem, you know, and what our prescription is and and all that good stuff, which was great.
It was beautiful because it it put it in ways that I could understand. Um and that made sense to me. Um she goes, "You see that Valerie in forward to the First Direction says precisely how we have recovered." And um and I'm just gonna say the cuss word that Camille said to me, and it's on tape, but that'll be okay.
She said, "Precise means precise, Valerie. That means there's no gray area cuz I'm all about the gray, baby." You know? She said, "It's Don't monkey with it.
We're not going to muck it up. Precise means precise. We're going to do exactly what it says.
We're not going to add to this. We're not going to bring any secret mojo to it. We're not bring any outside opinions to it.
We're going to do exactly what they're asking us to do and ask God to help us leave our mind elsewhere. Let's not get confused about what we do here. Let's keep it simple.
And I was told very early on that with Camille that the truth is always simple. It's never complicated. The truth is never complicated.
It's this and this my emotions my head that get really complicated, but the truth is never complicated. Um, so anyway, we started going through that and and reading the prefaces and I just started having a great experience with this stuff and um, you know, the first action in there start reading the stories in the back of the book and I I never read the stories in the back of the book because it wasn't mine. Um, uh, she started talking to me about what it talks about in 40 of the first edition.
We would like it understood that our alcoholic work is an avocation that you know and Chexy said it we do this for fun and for free and um without thought of of uh repayment that this is an altruistic deal that ultimately when you boil AA when you when you get rid of all the stuff AA is about service me being of service in every area of my life. me being of being put to use by my creator really that I'm I am now in the world to play the role that God assigns. And sometimes I like to get in there and start assigning myself a role because I've got some good ideas.
And of course it involves lots of money, lots of sex and fame. I was talking to Tom. We were talking about uh being humble and we're like yeah not so much.
But I can be humble when you're looking. Um I'll be humble while you're watching so I get a good report. That's how humble I am.
Um you know in anonymity becoming anonymous uh to me Don Pritz was the uh epitome of anonymity um and demonstrated that principle in all of his affairs. That was a humble man. Um, not that he didn't have a ego to get him going or whatever, but a humble man.
I think he he got that anonymity piece. All right, it's time for a break. I don't know if it is for you, but it is for me.
>> Ready to go. Watch out. >> So, I'm in a third edition, too.
So, just to let you know, um, one of the things too that really, uh, hit me was, you know, in the preface on the third edition, that last paragraph, it says, "We hope that you may pause in reading one of the 44 personal stories and think, yes, that happened to me." Or more important, "Yes, I felt like that." or most important yes I believe this program can work for me too. Um, a lot for a long time I used to define my alcoholism by my consequences. And when I would go to meetings, if we didn't have the same consequences, I didn't identify with you.
But if you started talking about how you felt there, you had me. Especially when you started talking about the loneliness, the fear, the desperation that I understood. But what our what our foundation is here.
Um, one of the most profound things that happened to me in Alcoholics Anonymous is that I felt understood at depth for the first time in my life. And that's powerful because I used to run around not being understood at all and not even understanding myself. Um Don put words on that for me when he was talking about his drinking and people would look at him and say, "Why did you do that?" And he's like, "I don't know." And you know, we try to come up why our behavior is so bizarre, but in our hearts, like it talks about in here, we really don't know why we do it.
I don't know. I don't know why I did. I didn't I don't know.
I didn't necessarily mean to do that. I didn't want for that to happen. I don't know.
So I it started putting words on when I started listening to other members of Alcoholics Anonymous. They started putting words on my experience that help me to identify um that I'm absolutely in the right place. It is one of the most powerful things we can do is to talk about how we were really living and how what we were really thinking and what we were really doing.
I'm such a liar though, you know. Um, I always want to be something other than I really am. Um, especially in sobriety, I got caught up in that.
Um, this is what I want you to see, but the reality of what I'm really doing is something entirely different. And usually it was dishonest. Um, or I'm breaking some kind of internal moral code or or whatever.
Not that I had many when I got here, but the the few that I had that started to get reinstilled in me. um was breaking those on a regular basis as well. Um but anyway, so that's where I really started to identify do do I feel like this?
Do I think like this? You know, and then sponsorship, you know, if you're sponsored by somebody who who takes the steps out of the big book, you know, when you get into Bill's story, they start to ask you to identify with Bill Wilson. Do you identify with the founder, one of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous?
Did you think like Bill? Did you drink like Bill? Did you feel like Bill?
Cuz if you did, you're probably one of us. Cuz we're crazy. Not everybody identifies with us.
We think they do, but they don't. Um I mean, we certainly have the human condition. Um but we're a little nuts.
We're a little touched in some ways. That's what I That's part of our charm. Um that's what I think.
I love it crazy, you know. Um, so that was that was really powerful for me that this is about identification. You know, when I talk, do you hear me?
When you talk, do I hear you? Do I understand? Um, you know, and then forward to the first edition, it talks about many do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person.
I was the least to comprehend how sick I was. It was actually years into sobriety and and trying to live this way that I really started to understand how sick I really was. I just didn't see it.
I didn't get it at all. Um, you know, and then they go on to talk about uh the beginnings of our traditions and and um all that stuff. Um, and I like that it says honest desire to stop drinking.
I don't know that everybody who comes to ANA has an honest desire to stop drinking, but who cares, you know, maybe uh a seed gets planted. Um the forward to the second edition was wonderful for me. There's a lot there's tremendous history, our our early days um in Alcoholics Anonymous.
There's a lot of really good material out there these days, too, that talk about how we came about. And it's truly amazing. The only reason you and I are sitting here today is because of these weird series of events that all happened in this most miraculous way, how we all came together and the timing and and the different parts of the country.
And uh God wasn't using saints, he was using some goofy people. And and and that talks to me too about God's mercy. When people used to say that uh we have a merciful father, the the thing that would come to my mind when you said the word merciful or mercy was me sitting on my brother penning him down having just drank some nice orange juice doing the spit thing and him screaming for mercy.
Mercy mercy. I didn't have no mercy. um I was torturing him and enjoying it or I was.
So that was my idea of mercy. So when you would say merciful father, that's what I saw. That was my interpretation.
How I understand that today is just uh a limitless amount of compassion for um how weak I really am that at my core um I am a very weak person that of myself I am nothing um and I absolutely need God's grace and mercy and compassion um and accepting that and allowing that to happen. Well, I didn't allow it to happen. Shoot, it just happen.
But, um, has given me tremendous compassion towards God's kids that on my own, I'm just not capable of. On my own, I'm judging you and comparing to you. Um, so I digress.
But anyway, so getting into that and understanding how this this wonderful series of events and you know Dr. Bob is a crazy drunk and he's trying the Oxford group and which is a a fundamentalist Christian movement and um he's trying that in order to get sober and to stay sober and it's it's not working. Um and they're very spiritually active people.
Um, and that's that's not happening. And then Bill Wilson shows up from New York on a business deal, which falls apart. He goes into the, you know, he's in the lobby of the hotel.
Is he going to drink or is he going to find another drunk to work with? He starts calling all these churches in the lobby. And the last um church that he calls, the guy says, "Yeah, call this gal, Henrietta Cyberling, who was in involved in the Oxford group." and she says, "Yeah, I got somebody to talk to." Calls Dr.
Bob and or his wife Anne because she knows an and an you know like a good Alanon knows how to do muscles him into a a meeting with Bill Wilson. And Dr. Bob says, "All right, well, I'll go, but I'm only going for 15 minutes." And they show up and they end up talking for six hours.
And why? because uh Bill Wilson was properly armed with facts about himself, about the true nature of alcoholism. Um that there is something physically and mentally different with us that non-alcoholics just do not experience.
And I don't care what kind of ritual you got going on or worship stuff you've got going on over here with the Oxford group, it's not enough. you know, we we we got to be firmly grounded in this truth about what's wrong with me. That's why clear inventory is so important.
Um, when I go into six and seven, I need to be clear on what the problem is, where where I've been, how my selfishness, dishonesty, and self-centerness, fear, whatever, how that manifests. If I don't know what the problem is, I'm not very clear when I'm going to my creator asking for help, you know. Um, that's another reason why I don't think the checkbox inventory is very effective because um, uh, it's too vague.
It's easy for me to sort of off, oh yeah, I'm selfish and self-centered. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's true, but I never get to the root of that about how that manifests.
Very important. So anyway, um I I love this stuff, you know, and it talks about it and forward to the second edition that the physician on the second page, the physician had repeatedly tried spiritual means to resolve his alcoholic dilemma, but had failed. And I identify with that.
I've been saved numerous times. I and I have felt the movement of the spirit and I've gone up there on altar calls, been to those crazy evangelical you are healed kind of stuff. My sponsor was telling a story.
We did a retreat with my sponsor in Elkins two or three weeks ago and my sponsor was talking about uh his uh brother's a freewheeling Baptist preacher. That's like hardcore. And um you know, Jimmy Swagger would come on the TV and he'd get all ready there with Jimmy Swagger and and Jimmy be like, "Pray with me, brothers.
Pray with me." Jerry put his hand on the TV and he'd be praying with him on the TV and had the hand I just got this whole visual picture of that happening. I thought that was hysterical, but I understand that. Desperately looking for an answer.
Um, one of the things that Don I heard Don share one time we he said u I've always known my answer was spiritual in nature. There's been some part of me ever since I was little that has searched for something that has been on a quest for something and um I've always known it was spiritual and I can identify with that to a to a degree. um when I was younger um trying to commune with nature and the things around me.
Um but worldly clamors always got in the way even as a a small child. Um already obsessed with myself and my surroundings. So um so and that I identified with that I repeatedly tried spiritual means too and had failed.
But when the broker Bill Wilson gave him Dr. Silkward's description of alcoholism and its hopelessness that this is a hopeless condition. It's bigger than everything that I can bring to bear.
Everything I can bring to bear. The best psychiatrist I've ever seen. Everything that that shrink could bring to bear on my dilemma was not enough.
The love of my parents not enough. The love I had for my son, not enough. My desire to be a good person, not enough.
Everything I could bring to bear, um, everything the courts could bring to bear, it's not enough. And that's a hopeless, hopeless, uh, situation. You know, what are we going to do?
You know, and the crazy thing with alcoholics is we've got another idea that doesn't involve this. You know, there's got to be another way. Maybe if I rebirth, you know, do the rebirththing thing.
I loved ACOA. I showed up at ACOA with my little teddy bear ready. I knew it was their fault.
I knew it. I knew it. They did irreparable harm to me and damaged my spirit.
>> They did. I believe that through and through. It's their fault.
>> Your parents or ACA? >> Huh? >> Your parents or ACLA?
>> Uh, my parents. >> And um and the ACOA meetings that I had gone to in California were very in and and I don't know if all ACOA meetings are this way. I don't know.
I just know the one that I was attracted to was uh you are the victim. It's absolutely their fault and you are just damaged beyond repair and um your life's going to suck because you're so damaged and uh you will never get over this, you know. And I've had psychiatrists who've said, "Oh, you've got to confront your past and you got to confront your abusers and you know, and AA is the complete opposite of that.
This isn't about them. you know, where are you wrong? What have you done with it?
Um, how have you caused harm? We forgive that. Um, you know, and God knows we need God's power to do that because on my own, I like being a victim because then I don't have to change, you know, and it's always your fault, but it's a miserable way to go.
There's no freedom there. So um so anyway uh so when when Bill Wilson got the truth about his condition, he starts to pursue this this spiritual remedy, this spiritual answer for his malady. That's a strong word, but it's a great word that describes us.
Malady is like mental illness. We're definitely mentally ill. I love it in uh how it works.
It says that we come here with grave emotional and mental disorders. We do or I did. Most of the drunks I know have.
They don't come here um you know with everything intact and seeing the world clearly. Um we're kind of goofy and and I love what it says. This seemed to prove that one alcoholic could affect another as no non-alcoholic could.
It also indicated that strenuous work, one alcoholic with another, was vital to permanent recovery. Vital. And that has been the example that has been demonstrated for me by my heroes and alcoholics anonymous.
Streuous work with other alcoholics, active work with other alcoholics, effective work with other alcoholics. I mean, you can be really busy in AA, lots of activity, but no real action. And what I was shown was effective action.
Um, and I've made a lot of mistakes with that, which we'll talk about more later. But, um, but that has been my I am willing to do that. Um, and actually, I think when somebody wakes up spiritually, they can't not do it.
That's been my experience and that's been my experience with people that I've sponsored is once they get it, they're on fire, man. They want to go save the world. It's great.
Um, but they're actively they become actively engaged in helping other people. Bless you. >> I like on uh XIX.
What is that? Uh, I don't know what number that is. >> Is that 14?
>> 19. >> I'm glad there's some smart people here. I don't know what that is.
Um, in that first paragraph it says um, you know, they're talking about the reality of Alcoholics Anonymous and the mistakes we make. It says, "But out of this frightening and at first disrupting experience, the conviction grew that AAS had to hang together or die separately. We had to unify our fellowship or pass off the scene." And I find that that's true um in every area of my life that that principle goes in has to go into every area of my life.
Um and it's paramount that I practice that principle in my home group. Um, and I'm very uh passionate and I guess somewhat protective about our traditions. Um, when I when I first got here, um, you know, I was going between both fellowships, AA and NA.
I was introducing myself as an alcoholic and an addict, and I thought I was both. I used a tremendous amount of drugs. Love drugs.
Um and then I didn't know any different. And um and then an old-timer got a hold of me and said, "You know, when you're in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, you need to introduce yourself as an alcoholic." And I thought they were full of poo. And um I thought that that didn't apply to me and they needed to change the rules that the reality of it old man is that AA has changed and you guys just weren't around when this is going on.
But let me tell you this is what goes on now. I'm going to write to GSO because this is crap. Um you know we should everybody should be able to come in and be a member.
Um, and you know, and I so I got into a fight with an old-timer and told him how he was wrong. Um, and but just but no clue. And and then later Camille got a hold and I believed that through and through and would have defended it to the death um that AA needed to change because times had changed.
And uh then Camille got a hold of me and of course Don got a hold of me about our singleness of singleness of purpose and how important that is to our survival that this really is about one alcoholic helping another alcoholic. Um I one time I was trying to help a heroin addict and she was coming I had met her in a um a correctional facility and she'd have a little drinky poo here and there and she was very attracted to AA was very attracted to our fellowship. She asked me to sponsor her.
She said she was an alcoholic and an addict. I took her through the book. She would uh change her experience to be an alcoholic.
She'd lie about her experience to be an alcoholic. I desperately wanted her to be an alcoholic. I wanted her to be an AA.
I wanted to keep working with her. And of course, I wanted to be the one who brought Margaret around. She was hardcore.
Um because you know there's status in that. Um uh so um so she couldn't stay here because uh we'll kill addicts, real addicts. Not that you can't be both, but my experience has been that they're far and few between.
They are the minority. Um but she was a she was a heroin addict, not an alcoholic. There was no alcoholism there.
She with alcohol could put it down and walk away. She could not do that with heroin. And I was over and I was so naive about heroin.
She'd come into the meeting, she'd be nodding out. I'd be like, "What's going on?" She goes, "Oh, I'm tired." I believed her. Well, you need to get some rest.
Are they working you too hard at that restaurant? you know, and she's losing weight, you know, getting thin as a rail. You know, she's got some bruising.
She starts just wearing long sleeves, you know, she's walking a little funny cuz she was shooting up here and got got some abscesses or whatever. You know, clueless cuz I've never shot her. Not a clue.
And um so I go over to her apartment one time and I'm going to help her. So we're sitting on the sofa. I'm reading the big book to her and she's nodding out while I'm reading her the big book.
So I called Don. He goes, "What the hell are you doing? Get the hell out of there.
You can't help her. You have no experience with that." And she was actively in her addiction. He said, "Ask her if she wants to go to an NA meeting or go to the hospital.
That's how you'll know if she really wants help because she could call me and I could come over and make her feel better for a little while. And I was only too happy to do it because I wanted her to make it. And I didn't realize I was harming her.
Um, so I asked her, "Do you uh do you want to go?" And the answer was no. And it was it was heartbreaking for me. I did not want to leave her apartment, but I left.
I've seen her a couple times here and there. Um, but you know, that relationship was done at that point. Um, so, so this piece that they're talking about about our we have to hang together is vitally important.
And I, you know, have seen alcoholics hiding out in narcotics anonymous. So, I mean, we will kill addicts. No doubt in my mind.
Um, so I'm very clear on that. My home group is very clear on that. When we have somebody who shows up at our home group that's a drug addict, we don't yell at them, we don't treat them unkindly, cuz I've seen that happen in AA before.
Well, you don't belong here. You go find another fellowship, get out of here, what are you doing here? I mean, real unkind stuff.
Not what AA is about at all. Um, so what we do, what our group conscience is is, um, we sit down and we talk to them and help them find out, you know, do you have questions about whether you're an alcoholic? And that's our responsibility as AA members.
Let me help you find out if you're an alcoholic of our type. Um, and if you are not, I know some people that are members in good standing in Narcotics Anonymous. Let me hook you up with them.
let me take you to them and being that bridge for them. Um so they can find the fellowship they crave, the fellowship they need, that understanding that touches us at depth like they're talking about in here. The thing that that I know what it means to be an alcoholic.
I know what it means to be, you know, a heroin addict. The thing that goes on, I don't know anything about that. I I've never been down that path.
So started to get some experience with that and stopped fighting. Had to go make amends to that old-timer boy. That was humbling and he enjoyed it a whole bunch.
And he's a good friend today. And um we like to laugh about that. Um it it just goes to show you half the time I you know you think you know what's going on but you don't know nothing.
You know what I mean? Um so uh so as we discovered the principles by which the individual alcoholic could live so we had to evolve principles by which the AA groups and AA as a whole could survive and function effectively. So I don't fight with the traditions or concepts anymore and I used to fight with them and disagree with them and um and that's a whole another conversation but um I don't I'm I don't fight with it anymore.
I comply with the conditions. Um I respect my elders and I respect AA's experience. Um and not that I don't ask questions.
I do. Um and there's been times where I haven't agreed, but I've always been encouraged by sponsorship that it's okay to question. Question everything.
Don't be afraid to question everything. Um and and have your experience. So those are some of the things in there um that really mean a lot to me.
The last paragraph on that forward to the second edition, it says upon therapy for the alcoholic himself, we surely have no monopoly. Well, I didn't like that because I think we're everything. You know what I mean?
Um and nobody else is getting it like we're getting it. and uh really arrogant about that. Yet, it is our great hope that all those who have as yet found no answer may begin to find one in the pages of this book and will presently join us on the high rate road to a new freedom.
So, if you want what we have, do what we do. If you've tried everything and nothing worked, then we may have an answer for you. if uh you know if me going to the uh evangelical and I got saved, if that had worked, that's where I'd be today.
But that that didn't work for me. Um if good therapy worked, I'd still be a regular therapy person. God knows I love to talk about myself, you know, that would be fun.
we could keep keep delving into the crevices of my psyche, you know, and discover uncharted territory and I could become really smart, you know. Um, so but if that worked, if that solved my problem, that would be the message I would carry and that's where I would be. Um, if taking the steps out of Hazelton had solved my problem, that's the message I would carry and that's what I would be doing.
Um, and and again, this is my experience. There's a lot of people in the A that have different experience. That's valid.
You know, I can get so arrogant with mine that I think that they're all doing it wrong because they don't do it this way. And my gosh, I used to get into some u yelling matches about that. Here's a great example.
My husband does not do what I do. And we used to have knockdown dragouts. I mean, we would I argue for six hours.
I'm not joking. For six hours on a line in the big book on what it meant, you know, like I was a believer. He Well, they've come around now, which I'm very happy about cuz I knew I was right all along.
But for a long time with the belief that he was sponsored in is you do 1 through nine once and then you live in 10, 11, and 12. There's nothing wrong with that. If that's what works, that's fine.
I don't know. I haven't met too many people. Maybe that's true if you can practice 10, 11, and 12 perfectly um or really regular so stuff isn't building up or whatever.
I'm just not there yet. But um we would get on in an argument on semantics on when it says uh regular house cleaning or whatever that word regular regular inventory, a six-hour long arguments. It was fun to be in our house.
Um, so you know, and I remember talking to Don and he's like, "What do you care what he believes? It works for him. He's sober.
He's helping other drunks. He's effective in his home group. He tries to live this way.
What do you care what they do? Cuz I got to be right. And if you don't believe what I believe, then I'm threatened by you.
I'm afraid of you. What a bunch of horseshit. So, um, so you know, let it go.
Not everybody's going to do what you do. And who cares what they do anyway? What's your experience?
Carry your experience. Let people have their own experience. They're not AA is not going to fall apart, you know, which is what I would think.
They're killing AA, you know. So upon therapy for the alcoholic, AA surely has no monopoly and we don't. Um there are alcoholics out there that have sobered up in the church and that works for them.
Um and I it's not my place to judge that. If that worked for me, that's where I'd be. But it didn't work for me.
This is what worked for me. So I I love that. If you have as of yet found no answer, we got one for you.
Um, so doctor's opinion, is this all right going through the book this way? Is everybody okay with this? >> Okay.
Um, I'm just kind of pulling out stuff that meant a lot to me. Um, I'm not going to go word for word. Um the question that was asked of me in that that last paragraph was I personally know scores of cases who were of the type with whom other methods had failed completely or am I an alcoholic whom other methods failed completely.
Well yes I am. Camille said well list them out for me. And so you know I started talking about the therapy relationships jobs geographics raising sheep.
um yeah medication um all of the things that I brought to bear that failed. I am the type with whom other methods fail completely. That fact that other methods fail completely is of extreme medical importance because of the extraordinary possibilities of rapid growth inherited in this group.
They may mark a new epic in the annals of alcoholism. These men may well have a remedy for thousands of such situations. I love that line because all my life I uh and I carried it right into AA.
I'm different than you. And the great thing about AA is, you know, it doesn't really matter where you came from, what your background is. um short, tall, skinny, heavy, gay, straight, black, white, Asian, atheist, agnostic, religious, whatever.
We don't care. Doesn't matter. Um you went to jail, you didn't go to jail.
You know, all the things that I would Well, I'm different because of this. My problems worse because of this. you know all the things that I use to separate myself or why I'm sicker than you why this won't work for me and it says for thousands of such situations doesn't matter who you are the the uh directions are the same for me today on how to recover as they were for Bill Wilson who was a what was he Protestant what was he I don't know you know stock broker a dude in the 30s with, you know, a lot of religious education.
That's not me. I can grow up that way. I can go to war, all that stuff.
Um, thousands of such situations. So, I don't need to separate myself anymore. And that's a con I found that's a conscious choice that I make.
Um, it's it's just a conscious choice. I just give up. So, I can rely absolutely on anything they say about themselves.
And I always asked, "Are you willing to rely absolutely on what the directions that they're going to give you?" And I said, "Yeah, cuz I'm hopeless. Can I close those doors?" Cuz I keep listening to those kids running out there. >> Yeah, we can open windows.
It's 80° here. >> It's toasty. >> Thanks.
Um so understanding this allergy and having this explained to me and man when I I never read the doctor's opinion I was like whatever you know >> Dr. mocker and uh you know sponsorship is like well this is the diagnosis of your problem so let's go read it and you know uh before I went to go meet with Camille she's like start reading the big book and all this other stuff and and the big book meeting I was a part of I started to read some of it and I didn't get it you know what I mean it was until I sat down with somebody and they shared their experience with what had been written that I really started to get it and I was like, "Oh, oh, that's what they mean. That's what it is." Um, it just brought everything together for me.
It was like, it was a really exciting time for me in my sobriety. I really started to understand that I belong here, that this is my home. Um, so it's as though we work out our solution on the bottom.
as though we work out our solution as on the spiritual as well as altruistic plane. We favor hospitalization for the alcoholic who is very jittery or befogged. Um that was hammered into me.
Hammered, hammered, hammered. I could not I was not allowed to hide out in the big book at all. Um the expectation was you get through these steps, I expect you to go find some drunks and help them.
Um they demanded that from me and they also demanded respectability which you know took a little while but um they demanded that that was that was the condition I needed to comply with and um it has been that is what I have done um and because of that willingness and and just doing this and that being expected of me that I had to go do it even when I didn't feel like it. Um, and I really understand what it means to be inconvenienced by Alcoholics Anonymous. I mean, that was beat into my head that you have to get out and carry this message.
You can't sit in your home group or in a workshop and naval gaze with this stuff, which is what I like to do because I love stuff that satisfies the mind. Love it. I used to uh be in constant inventory with this stuff.
I mean, if I stub my toe, oh my god, I got right inventory. You know, I I got a little upset with somebody. Oh my god, I got to write inventory.
I mean, I was constantly writing inventory. Some of that was good, but it was going overboard. I'd started to naval gaze, and I was starting to use inventory to try to manage my life.
And Don said, "You got to open up for business. You got to get out of inventory and open up for business because you're you're shutting down. You're missing it.
You're missing it. So, uh, I've got to actively take this stuff out. And, um, so we, you know, actively carry meetings to correctional facilities, treatment facilities.
My home group is very active in carrying the message out. We don't sit in our home group um, and study the book. We put uh, legs on it.
Um, that's been that's I think why we've uh why we've grown. That meeting was started. There was uh I think there was five or six of us that started the Jaywalkers and we've got an awful reputation too.
It's great. Um but that meeting is now over 150 people on Friday night and um we are at when people come they're like the energy in this room is amazing. Um, the stuff that you guys are talking about is amazing.
And we just grab people and we run like we're going we're going to this commitment. We're going to go carry the message here, right? I mean, we get out into the world.
We don't it's easy to stay in and judge, which is what I used to do all the time. And then I was like, I'm not judging. I'm just observing and reporting back.
>> Yeah. There's no, you know, but I but I was I gota, you know, you're not doing it right. So, um, that I got to work out my solution.
We do this together and I do it individually on the spiritual plane as well as the altruistic plane. I've got to get busy being of service to other people. Um, and I I love the stuff that's in here.
I mean that was like uh on the next page when it talks about we doctors have realized for a long time that some of some form of moral psychology was of urgent importance to alcoholics but its application presented difficulties beyond our conception while with our ultramodern uh standards our scientific approach to everything. We are perhaps not well equipped to apply the powers of good that lie outside our synthetic knowledge. Uh the first time that that was read to me, I you know, I heard it and then Joe Joe Hawk uh you know changed some of those words around in his way in his wonderful way and it brought it absolutely home to me about human power that human power is absolutely not enough and that's why when I was doing that training in that correctional facility on victim's rights if you're victim advocate if you you know it's moral psychology if I help you to understand the consequences of your actions, you won't do it anymore.
But that doesn't work for people like us. Um, so when they change that around, that's some form of uh spiritual awakening. >> Yeah.
>> Just wanted to comment on that that I do a lot of correction stuff >> and actually R and I were just talking about this. They do the behavioral modification. >> Yeah.
you know, out there and they teach you. And in a big book group, I tell them if that works for you, then wonderful. Go with it.
>> That's great. But if you're like me, that never will. You'll understand all that, but you won't have the power to be able to carry it out.
>> Exactly. >> And then join us, you know, but try that. Go for it.
>> Yeah. And that's so true. The power to carry it out.
Lack of power is absolutely our dilemma. Absolutely. Um, God, there's so much good stuff in here.
I love this thing. Frothy. Love that word.
Worthless. It's worthless. Frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices.
The message which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight. It must. And that's true.
The thing that gets my attention is something with depth and weight. Um, fufu stuff. I just don't I don't respond to it all.
Um and that's I think too why Camille was she was a mean old You know what I'm saying? And um and I heard her because she she had depth and weight and uh she was just right up in there. She was not patting me on the tutu telling me everything was going to be okay.
Um she told me the truth. She told me the truth. Um, so I love that word frothy.
And you know, whether it's coming from myself or other people, you know, I'm going to change. I'm going to be different. It's going to be different tomorrow.
I mean, just like what Tom was talking about, I can talk about that all day long, but I don't have the power to do it. Um, I might be able to change for a couple of days. And even in sobriety, I still have that power.
I remember reading EMTT Fox going, "This is the shisn it and I'm changing. I'm going to start doing this right now and uh couldn't do it." I think I, you know, I think the best I've ever gotten was a couple of days uh with that stuff. I I don't even have the power to live a good life, a spiritual life.
So, I don't have that kind of power either. And I used to try to manufacture spiritual experiences. That was fun.
That doesn't work. Um, what I found out is that God's gifts uh and grace are they're just given. It's not something that can be earned.
And and I was always busy earning it. Being a good girl for God because that's what I thought you had to be. And something that helped me dispel that belief was um I realized that when I got sober, when I was given the gift of sobriety, there was nothing redeeming going on in my life at all.
Nothing. I was not a good person. I was not a nice person.
Not a good person. I was not a nice person. I was leading a very ugly life and I was given this gift from my creator so I don't have to be good for God at my worst.
I was given a gift. I didn't earn it. I didn't do anything.
I just asked for help. I was talking to Tom yesterday day about a recent experience I had and it kind of blew me away. Um and I it came out of the blue and then it left out of the blue.
Um but it changed me dramatically and it was a a gift. Uh I started waking up in the mornings and you know and I'm trained up appropriately now that when I wake up the my first thought is God. That's the first thing that comes to mind.
And um so I wake up and God and um and I'm I'm not even going to be able to describe this to you, but I'm going to try. Uh I started having this very intimate conversation and experience with my creator. I have never experienced anything like it.
Um, it was so much love. It was the closest I can describe is like I was talking to a lover, but there was nothing sexual about it. It was the closest, most intimate exchange I have ever experienced in my life.
And that was going on every morning for about two weeks. And I wasn't allowed to tamper with it, thank God, because after it, it was really strange because I would wake up in the morning and this would just start happening. Um, and I'd lay there and this conversation and this caressing of spirit was going on and um, and then I'd get on about my day and didn't remember a thing about it.
And then the next morning it was happening again and I wasn't talking to anybody about it. It's like I didn't even remember it had happened after it happened. I think that was God protecting the experience.
Um and that went on for two weeks and then it left and then even after it was done it took a while before I talked about it. But what came out of that experience for me was a um when I talked about God, it was always God, higher power, that kind of thing. I started referring to God as father.
And I never talked about God in that way and started experiencing just these tremendous amounts of compassion for other people that I never never had and understanding of our own weakness and frailty and brokenness in all of us. I didn't ask for that. I mean, I didn't I wasn't doing anything different.
There wasn't anything that I did that earned that thing that happened. It just showed up. And I wish it's like, was there something magic that I did?
Cuz I want to do it again. And do I have to wait 13 years, 14 years for this to show up again? What do I have to do?
You know, I mean, it was incredible. It was behold in the heart totally um where our creator is and um it was just unbelievable. So, I don't think I have to be good for anything or good for God.
I've been given these gifts without asking. Um, and I didn't have to make it happen, which is what I've tried to do all my life. I'm going to make it happen.
And, uh, just don't have to do that. And it it's uh, to me, too, it speaks to we just cease fight. We just live this way.
You know, I'm done fighting. I just I give myself completely to this simple program the best I can a day at a time and just learn how to like we were talking about dinner how I grow in effectiveness and understanding of this this spiritual life um and letting that unfold. So there's a little experience for you.
Okay. Woo. I'm over clipped.
Um, so at the bottom of that Oh, where were we? Where were we? >> Frosty.
>> Frosty. >> Oh, Frosty. Yeah.
Are we done with Frosty? Oh, I know. I love this promise.
This is one of the best in the whole world, the whole big book. In nearly all cases, their ideals must be grounded in a power greater than themselves if they are to recreate their lives. That's some powerful stuff right there.
Recreate your life. Um I am by nature a very fearful limiting person. Um this is all about uh lack of fear and this is about going out there and um doing your heart's desire and letting your spirit sing, doing what you were intended to do and you'll be given the power to do it.
I love this. This is what's happened in my life. Um, and I didn't believe it at first.
I thought I was aa fru voodoo. Um, but I was willing to take the action even though I hadn't had the experience. You know, it's like I want, you know, I hear people talk about this happened and this happened.
It was great. It was great. It's great.
Um, I want to know that it's going to work out and I want to know how it's going to work out and I want to know what it's going to look like and then I'll do it, you know, and it was complete opposite of that with faith, which is we just do this stuff and how we know how it's going to work out, but it's going to be great, you know, and it's it's because I like to control everything. I I I want to I I want something to do with that. And I will always short change myself.
Always. And I always have. Um, but this is amazing.
I've had amazing experiences with this promise. It's beautiful. All you do is ground my ideals, my beliefs, and they say it's a must.
If you only have, do what we do. Just surrender to it. It's a must.
It's a good way to go. Don't fight it. Ground your ideals.
Great things will come to pass. And uh you know, Don had me write out a vision. Um I grounded my ideals.
What is a vision for my life? Um what is my mission? Um and I did that with God.
Um I was very fearful, you know, because I I want to rule the world. I really do. You know, I want to prove to the world that I'm important and that I'm somebody.
And I want everybody to pay attention to me and think I'm the cat's meow and and you know, if you want to worship and adore me, that's good, too. And I'll take it. And um real crazy sick stuff, but it's there.
Um but if I'm grounding my ideals, I don't know how to explain. If I'm wearing my ideals and I'm out there being of service, I have been presented with opportunities to do things and go places that on paper someone like me should not be able to do or go. Um, so this stuff is very true and the stuff that I wrote out in my vision has come to pass and it's everything um in uh in in every area of my life and more.
And that can be scary. Uh Don said to me one time, Valerie, alcoholics fear success more than they do failure. And that's very true for someone like me.
Um I think there's some poem out of um I don't know if Nelson Mandela wrote it or something. You know what I'm talking about? What is that poem?
>> I I don't know but it was >> Oh, okay. Was it Nelson? He said it.
>> He read it. >> Yeah. >> Like let your light shine.
Do not be afraid. But yeah, that >> you know, and I'm afraid of that stuff. I can get afraid of it.
And we were talking about that the other day. I can be afraid of my and I my own greatness of what it is that God wants me to do. Um, and my ego can get a hold of that and do some really nasty stuff with it.
Um, I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this. >> Am I? Oh, okay.
Cool. Um, so in some ways that has scared me that there's that there's real power here. Can be frightening.
Um, I can be afraid of my own light. And um it's my hope that um I can just continue to be a demonstration and grow with that and and not be afraid, you know. And it's kind of funny that I get afraid of that cuz I've been given the power to uh to take care of and be responsible with what has been given to me.
Um and the responsibilities that have been given to me. So why I think it's going to be different, I I don't know. But that's something I'll think about at 3:00 in the morning.
So, um, but I love that. That's one of my favorite promises in the big book. Or I don't know if it's a promise, but I've made it into one.
Um, there's that word again, altruistic. I love that word. Um, at the bottom it says, "Many and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol." Absolutely.
That's why I drank. It was the magic, man. I loved it.
Loved it. Loved it. And I didn't care the price I had to pay.
I was willing to pay it. The sensation is so elusive. It's such magic.
That while they admit it is injurous, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. And isn't that true? I love it when I heard somebody say, and I'm going to say a naughty word again, but I'm going to do it.
Um, denial is just, you know, a word for us. We're delusional, man. Delusional.
Now, that's got some depth and weight behind it. Um, and we are what I think is going on is not what's going on, but I really think it's going on. I really do.
I believe my lies thoroughly convinced convinced absolutely convinced that things are a certain way. I am delusional. I was delusional about my drinking and I have been delusional about a lot of things sober.
A lot of things. I mean I used to be paranoid as hell. I used to think people were out to get me, that people were conspiring against me.
Uh, I mean, it was nuts. Um, it's like a squirrel on amphetamines up there. I heard this one guy say one time, uh, it's a hamster on the wheel up there.
The hamster's dead, but the wheel's still going. I realize the hamster's dead, but the wheel's still turning. You know, that's my mind.
And to me, my alcoholic life, drunk or sober, untreated, seems entirely normal. Untreated alcoholism can seem entirely normal to me. It was normal to me to lie.
It's normal. Normal to me to steal. uh normal to me to um uh to take from people.
Um that they owed it to me, that the world owed it to me. Uh I had a roommate that um had gotten in a car accident and she was living with me. I really believed that when she got her settlement, she owed me some of that money.
I really believed that just a complete where is mine and you owe me. Give it to me cuz I've been nice to you. I gave you a place to live.
You're a loser. I give you a place to live. That's what I'm thinking on the inside.
But on the outside, I'm nice and kind so I can get what I want, which is some money out of you when you get your settlement. Are we even really self-seekers even when trying to be kind? And I was sober and I believed that through and through.
That was the truth. And I'd live my life my whole life that way. Everybody owed me something.
And if I didn't get it, I was going to take it from you. >> Did you get your money? >> No.
>> No. She was actually the last woman to call the cops on me. I had to smack her down.
I got real upset. Had a small temper tantrum. Um and she actually was at um you know and I I you know went back and of course made amends to her and I ended up owing her financial amends.
Yeah, there's one for you. Um, and I paid that money back to her and I made amends. She um, she's still uh, she was in AA for a while, then she was in AA, then she left.
Now she's kind of doing Alanon and I mean, and her life is um, empty. It's really sad. It's really sad.
She is good friends with a a a guy that's staying with us right now, Will. Um she's good friends with Will and last weekend that the winner and I sponsor did a roast for me and and she came. Um she's terrified of me.
Um and I wish there was something more that I could do and all all I can do now is be kind to her and it's no problem doing that. Um, but I can see the the she's got fear all over her. It's heartbreaking and I was right there with her at a different point and just how much things have changed in my life and how much hers has gone backwards.
So anyway, um, so drunk or sober on my own, my best devices, I got weird thinking. That's why they say we got to have a psychic change because nobody could have talked me out of that that belief. No one.
I was convinced it was true. So, you know, good sponsorship is important. Having somebody who tells you the truth is important, but I that that change that has to happen at depth has to come from a power greater than myself because no human power can provide it.
I've got a woman I sponsor right now. has got a little nasty food obsession going. We all tell her, "Hey, um, you need to eat.
You know, you're way too skinny." She thinks we're out to get her. She really believes this. When she looks in the mirror, she thinks she's fat and her clothes are falling off of her.
Um, you know, we've done inventory and we we've done the stuff and until she's done with it. There's not anything doesn't matter how much how many of us that are around her that know her and love her say something's not right here. Just like with our drinking, I was told all the time, "You got a problem.
You got a problem. You got a problem. You got a problem." I didn't hear that.
Um, what I heard was something different. And it's the same thing with her and her little obsession that she got going on with herself and food right now. She doesn't she doesn't hear it.
She thinks we're all out to get her and what she sees and perceives as something that's a lie, but it's she's delusional about it. So, it's powerful stuff. Have to have a psychic change.
I I cannot produce that. I cannot bring that on. If I could, I wouldn't need a spiritual way of life.
If I could produce that on my own, I wouldn't need you people. I wouldn't need these steps, these exercises. I could just poof myself, but I can't puff myself, you know.
And that's what it talks about. One feels that something more than human power on the next page. One feels that something more than human power is need to produce the essential psychic change.
Has to happen. Has to happen. And I love this.
I'm going back and forth. But it says, you know, we're restless, irritable, and discontent. Yes, I am.
I'm edgy. Unless we can again experience a sense of ease and comfort, which comes at once by taking a few drinks. That's what what happened to me when I would take a few drinks immediately.
The Yeah, baby. I'm ready. Let's go.
Now I can play um sober. Um since alcohol isn't there, not going to take medication, not you know, not going to do marijuana maintenance or whatever. Um where do I find my sense of ease and comfort now that I'm sober?
>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.