Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoyed today's speaker. >> But uh you know one one thing Tom has always shown me since I've known him and and it's the most valuable thing I think he's shown me is that you know uh no matter how far down the road of sobriety we go, all we're ever going to be is human.

And Tom has always shown me the human side of him. And I hope I can return the favor for anybody else along the way for me. Tom.

>> Hi folks. I'm Tom Ivester, an alcoholic. >> Delighted to see you.

I'm a member of the primary purpose group of AA in southern Pines, North Carolina. Where to lay my watch? And I am delighted to be here.

I special pleasure tonight to have my beautiful and talented wife Fern and she hates to stand up, but I'm gonna ask her to do it anyway just so she has a strange way of making decisions. I invite her to go everywhere I go. She never goes to Kansas.

She got somehow edit so beast just sounded a little more enticing or there's something about her dedication. I guess I wanted you to meet her because I want to say before God in this country country company that now that's the woman I love. That's my wife and I am absolutely crazy about that girl.

She stays on my mind all the time. She has never never out of my conscious awareness. And I and I am an extremely sensitive and caring husband.

And I say that because there are a couple of folk from the left coast that they're trying to start a vicious rumor that I forgot her today and drove off and left her. never happened. I even think she's plotting with them because she accused me of it.

I'm Will that get me out of the doghouse and oh god senior instant is what I am delighted to be here. I'll work my way out of that. Uh thanks for thanks for a good conference and and u thanks for the good work.

Yeah, we we u I'm not the only one in here goes to more than a few conferences. I've got a lot of folks here I see on a regular basis around and uh we we go to all kinds of places. Sometimes we go to to opulence and splendor and yeah every everybody somebody's waiting at your beck and call every second and other time we go to the other extreme here we're at the other extreme because everything that happens at this conference it conference is an action of service every single thing and to me I guess that's one of the things that makes it sort of special because that human touch is in everything that happens here and it's just uh just absolut ab absolutely a a a great kind of spirit that pervades this thing and I'm just delighted to be a to be here.

It truly is one of one of God's special places and and what a what a nice weekend. What a great time to just come in and relax and kick back just sort of spiritually nourish a little bit and u get a little closer to those that are near and dear to us. So, I'm I'm just really pleased to be here.

I guess if if anybody just went came by and took a look at this group, we wouldn't look a lot different than any other bunch here. We're borderline suntan. Hard to get suntan when you got a schedule that's unceasing.

I mean, just goes on and on. But we make an effort. We got a few little red splotches here and there.

So, we look like an average slice of life. We we don't look a lot different than any other conference that would be here. And yet, if you look a little closer, you'd find something that's a little bit different about us.

We'll laugh a little quicker than the average cat. Well, we'll laugh at jokes. My sponsor has been telling the same joke for 35 years all over the world to the same people, and we still laugh.

And it was a lousy joke the first time I ever heard it. So, we laugh a little easier. And I'll guarantee you, we cry a little easier.

My god, I cry sometimes. Somebody reading the steps you particularly if they have to really suck it up to get it out. And uh we just are a little different folk.

And I I think there's probably a reason for that. If we do look like any other bunch, we're we're a group of a slice of life. We we're people who come from all kinds of places and we come from all kinds of experiences and all kinds of background.

We're all folks who are in we all got the same condition. We're just in various stages of repair. And uh so we come together.

By the way, one other thing I want to mention about the creativity. I uh we had the pleasure of having dinner tonight. a fellow that read Cecil was the master chef put together something and when they told me what they were cooking I said ain't no way I'm not eating that and went down there and took a look at it and I said give me the recipe and he looked at me funny and he said well you just catch anything that walks by crawls by swims by flies by throw it in the pot and they call it little bot Not low bottom.

Low country. >> Low. It could be low bottom.

Low bottom too. But and uh you talk about creativity. I tell you that stuff lit up my life bed.

I tell you that's great. I'm going to get some more of that good stuff. And we are that's who we are.

We're just kind of a group of folk who come in here and we come to to God's special place. and and and enjoy a fellowship second to none. We enjoy a fellowship that's powerful, a fellowship that pulls us through unbelievable situations.

And that's who we are. We just kind of come here together in this kind of place and share together, sort of celebrate our recovery. And I think the thing that sort of sort of brings that dimension to this group that may be a little lacking in some is that across the board in this room tonight, I seriously doubt, unless somebody just got in the wrong meeting, I seriously doubt that there's a single person here who hasn't come back from the brink of disaster.

Every person in this room has looked death bang in the eye and lived to tell about it. We're folks who have known bondage that most folks don't know and we are becoming free people. So we are a special kind of a group in terms of where we come.

We meet around and about and our focal point is an illness, a killer illness called alcoholism. That's a very a very deadly illness. One that takes out the overwhelming majority of its victims.

Most alcoholics die fairly young and usually tragically. And there are a precious few of us, a precious few of us who are fortunate enough to catch that brass ring called recovery and hang on to that sucker. And that's who we are.

So, we're people who come here not for just a privileged vacation. and we may have some fun, but we're people who come here with a with a sure awareness that we deal with an illness when we can hang on is God knows in my judgment a tremendous miracle. And I'm one we're people who have s who have who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

Two young folks with eight days sobriety have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. The only difference between them and me is time. Hey Ruby, a little bit of time.

We have recovered from the same illness and it's just a matter of time and state of repair. And I hope someday that they'll be able to uh to fully understand that and fully appreciate for you. And I'm I thank my God that that I'm one who has been in that crowd who has recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body.

And that's what I want to talk with you about tonight. I just want to share what we do. We share our experience, strength, and hope.

We don't teach. We don't preach. If anybody leaves you any smarter than they came in, it won't be my fault.

You You'll probably not take any new information. copious notes will not be helpful. Now, I'm just going to share with you about how that illness occurred in my life, what happened to bring it to what I hope and pray was an end, and then what this gift of recovery is about in my life.

You know, the hell Oh, I thought the chairman left. A terrible son. The captain leaves the ship.

Yeah. Well, one one one of all of it wasn't all true, but one of it was true. I have been blessed with an energy level that has has just held up pretty well.

Uh I'm now 81 years old and no, not quite. I've only ever thought I'd be. And uh if there's any good news that I'm going to offer tonight, and there's a ton of it.

Yeah. one that I want to be sure you understand and I'm going open with it and I hope I close somewhere around it. I'm a guy who has not only been blessed with being recovered from a seemingly hopeless mind of ill hopeless mind and body.

I was sick puppy is what I was and and not only have been re recovered from that but I'm a guy who's been given a way of life that is absolutely unbelievable and in my 44th year of recovery and believe me this is not cheerleader talk in my 44th year of recovery I had my very finest year in alcoholics anonymous and I mean that I mean the most enthusast enthusiastic, most dynamic, most creative, most involved year that I've ever had. And I've had a lot of good years. And so, the good news is that this ain't a place to just go wither and dry up and die.

This is a place for living. And so, that's what what what I want to get out. I I don't know why I'm an alcoholic.

Don't particularly care. Heard a lot of theories. Most of them interesting.

Very few of them very important. They they they're nice. If you're bored and don't have much to do, you can study alcoholism.

A lot of people do a lot of theory. I've read a lot of them. They not most of them kind of goofy.

My favorite one is that we s seem to be people who are not quite like average folk that we're just sort of a cut above the the average slice of life. We're a little more charismatic, a little more dynamic, a little more dashing personality, lot more creativity. innovative people, just absolute just inventors of stuff.

Some say that we're just part of our algorithm that we're frustrated artists and we're just sort of yearning for. Now, that's a great theory. I like that one very, very much.

Probably ain't true. I' I've always heard since I've been in AA that we are cut above, that we tend to be a little smarter than average gap. Only place I have ever heard that discussed is in aa meeting.

Nowhere else, but it's a nice thought. I don't know if I said it or not. All I know is this is that I'm a guy who came into alcoholic synonymous didn't identify with a soul.

Today I identify with practically every alcoholic that I meet and unexped. They just seem to be a little more like me than they used to be. They must be changing or something.

And like most alcoholics, I was a guy who seemed to be born with a little something lacking or a little too much of something. I'm not sure what it was, but whatever it was, it made it a little difficult for me to fit in life. Didn't comfortably comport with people.

Didn't inter interact with people very well. Always was kind of locked into myself. I I became a very selfentered and selfish and isolated person as a child and never grew out of that until well into recovery.

And so that's who I was and kind of an uncomfortable guy. You wouldn't have known it because I was always loud and always made a a mess of stuff and was the guy that would cut up at the party. But inside I never felt what I showed because I was a guy who lived within himself.

Led two lives. One was the one I really was and the one I was the one that I showed to the world around me so I could fit in. Well, that dilemma got sort of solved for me when I discovered the the uh the uh healing effects of alcohol.

I started serious drinking now that mind nibbling at the high school gym. It dances, but I started serious drinking when I was 16. And I don't think I was born alcoholic.

Don't think I was an instant alcoholic. Don't think I was an alcoholic at all for a long time. Well, short time.

But but I was a guy who who for whom that that stuff just worked. It it it did stuff for me that was important, valuable. I would have been stupid not to drink.

My god, anybody got that much stuff for $2 worth of moonshine whiskey. Would have been an idiot not to drink. And so I just I loved what that stuff did for me.

I loved how it made me feel. It gave me that sense of adequacy and comfort and confidence to do anything that my beady little mind could conceive. There was no longer any isolation me.

I just sort of broke out. And I did I was not alcoholic. I was a guy who found tremendous relief.

I was a guy who enjoyed the party life. I was a guy who enjoyed life uh the drinking life. I enjoyed the noise.

I enjoyed the action. I loved all of the goofy behavior that went with it. And that's all that was going on with me.

I was just a guy who loved the party and never wanted it to end. And I I it was a I don't know how many alcoholics like this. Don't hear many people say it.

But when when when I came to to to the end of I hope the end of my alcoholism and look back, my life looked like a blur. you know, it it just sort of started happening and it happened so quickly that I didn't even know it was going wrong till I was in way beyond the point of no return on my own resources. And and so I didn't have a clue of what was happening.

I was just sort of a guy that went through banging his way through life and never had any real definition of what was happening. Never did have pronounced success or failure. I was just a guy who fell in love with it.

I think if I had to characterize kind of guy I was, I was the kind of guy who if he took a drink, God only knows what would be happening that night. And uh and I was a guy that I always had a a a sort of a an unusual ability to uh to uh to get overrated. You know, I I was a kind of guy that people always had a good impression of me if I was sober.

And uh some people make some horrible mistakes with that. But I look good. Yeah.

I was the kind of guy that go in looking for a job and they would hire me for a better job than I'm looking for. And my career pattern was always that I'd go in, get a job, and start out pretty decent and then just sort of work my way down. I don't remember ever having a promotion in my life on merit.

Not a one. I went in the army right after the first world war and uh I was an E1 when I went in day one when I left the army 38 months later I was an E minus one. Last demotion I ever had.

Man said we're going to demote you below the grade. If you ever get a promotion you'll be at the bottom. I never did get one, but I always got overrated when the military.

I was picked out to be an officer. A doofus kid from North Carolina. Been nowhere.

Ever done anything. Picked out to be an officer. Good deal, hadn't it?

An amazing ability to get overrated. 38 months later, I was thrown out with an undesirable discharge for alcoholism because I also had an uncanny ability to sabotage the best thing that ever happened. year I got thrown out of the military, went to work in a sales job.

The first year I was out, I was elected salesman of the year in the city of Charlotte, my company. Pretty good, eh? Fired the same year for alcoholism.

Had an opportunity to go to the University of Missouri Law School in Colombia with guaranteed employment at the end of my law training and I decided to have a little drink instead and go to jail. And that was the story of my life. It was unbelievably good starts and an amazing ability to screw up no matter what it was to drink at the wrong time.

And so that pattern set in. And so that was me. I was just this kind of a wild crazy guy bouncing around and getting into a lot of a lot of difficulties.

Anybody that drinks as much as I did would be bound to get into a little bit of trouble. And so I early on started having encounters with police. I've been locked up a lot of times.

don't even know how many times, but a lot. And even though there was some baggage associated with the way I drank, had I been able to continue drinking, as ugly as it was, I would be doing it tonight. I'm not here because I heard about a wonderful cause called Alcoholics Anonymous.

Said, "Geez, I think I'll join and do some volunteer work." I guarantee you that was never a consideration. And uh only reason I'm here is that I developed alcoholism. Now I I say and I mean that that had I been con unable to continue drinking and not developed alcoholism, I would be doing it.

But the strange thing is what that happens in recovery is that today if somebody hit me over the head with a magic wand and said, "Son, it's all over. You can go party if you'd like." I wouldn't go. I wouldn't go.

And it's not because I've become a moralist, but this thing has worked to such an extent. I was thinking about it the other day. I cannot think of one possible way that a drink would improve my life in any way whatsoever.

I mean, none. Improve my personality, my circle of friends, my finances, my pleas place in the community, my professional career, my marriage, anything. Even my pleasure.

I cannot think of one way that I could possibly use a drink. So, I don't think I would go. But that's who I was.

I was just kind of a guy running wild in that thing. Developed alcoholism. Like I said, I don't understand alcoholism.

What what it really comes down to is simply this that that once I crossed that line into to alcoholism as opposed to heavy drinking, I was somebody that couldn't predict what he would do if he took a drink. And my life just sort of became a series of seemingly endless series of bizarre kinds of incidents that happened where I would start drinking in one place wind up and just unbelievable stuff happened. Jails all too often.

Psycho would wake up in hospital with gas on and not even know who had an accident. And it seemed to be me a lot of time waking up in the wrong state. Woke up married one one time to a woman that I didn't even know.

I'll guarantee you got to be drinking strong liquor for that. That drank stronger afterward, too. But that was me.

I was just one of those kind of wild crazy dudes that just went that way. And when I look at it, mine was a was a pretty quick and episodic kind of a career. I I was a guy that u I never did have the peaks and valleys.

I just sort of started out pretty low and stayed there. I I just got worse. I didn't I never did have any real pinnacle to test.

But when I look at it and and contrast the two ends of that thing, that 16-year-old fell out coming out of high school over in over in North Carolina over there near Charlotte and then compared to the guy 8 years later had gone through this kind of crazy looking mess like that and was living up in the city of Flint, Michigan, city of half million people up in Michigan. And uh there's a guy there, he's got sticky hand up. This man, fine looking young man, was one of Flint, Michigan's finest.

He is a retired police officer from Flint, Michigan. And you you can tell by looking at Stand up, Scott, so they can see you. Look at that.

Now that's how young you have to retire as a policeman and play with you. Some of his predecessors used to get me on a regular basis, but that's where I wound up in uh in Flint, Michigan. And and uh and and and living a kind of life that I honest to God didn't even know existed when when I started out.

I wound up essentially, yeah, I got to that point in my career where I couldn't stay employed and my my basic living address the last year that I was in was either jailed or hospitals or or flopping at somebody's place or on the street or sleeping in the old Rialto theater and and just crazy crazy stuff like that. Now, I'll assure you I never had any inclinations of going to a place like that. Didn't even know there were places like that, but I just sort of went where drunks went.

That's where they went. That's where I went and that's where I crashed and burned as a young fellow in his in his early 20s. And and I never want to forget the the devastating nature of that.

Not in terms of just the squalor and the and the and the anger and the social social role that I was in, the disgust and humiliation and fear and embarrassment and all of that. But I I never want to forget what I felt like on the inside as as a as a as a young person who just died on the inside and and was unable to even have any sense of decency or selfrespect or even a desire to be that. And I never want to forget that guy who lived in those conditions.

And anytime I get to thinking about the consequences of alcoholism to me, that's what I want to remember is what happened on the on the inside to this guy. Now it it would be nice. Many many of you are well aware I got lots of friends here and and and and I wish God knows how much I wish that I could tell you that that I had enough and sought help and and and and found it and and got into aa and things turned around just didn't happen.

Instead, I was one of those who who wound up doing the kind of thing I know every alcoholic in the world fears doing. Families probably more because they have to they have to clearly see what's going on. And I was the kind of guy who would always I knew I was capable of anything, but I never really thought I would ever do do major damage to anybody.

I didn't intend to. Uh but but you God knows what'll happen when an alcoholic is is is is running wild. And one night I I was driving a car up the main street of of the city there there in Clint Sagenov Street and uh struck and killed two people on on the street and and and my and and yeah, I didn't even I didn't even know it till the next morning when I woke up in jail and I assumed when I woke up that I was in there for the same as always, you know, just street behavior, whatever.

And uh the jailer came by, knew him well, and I said, "When can I get out?" And he would usually say 10:00. That was drunk getting out time. And and he that's normally what he say, "10:00 you go." And uh that time he he said, "I hope never." And walked off.

Had not a clue what he was talking about, but knew he wasn't kidding. And uh then some of the other guys in the in the in the in the drunk tank told me that it'd been in the papers and and uh that that what had happened and and my and my mind was incapable of accepting the information. I mean I knew I could have done anything but that is an unthinkable kind of thing to deal with and my response was just to push it away and then gradually accepted the truth.

And then 76 days later, my family uh they didn't learn it. Some somebody I think one of the officers at the police station had to be. I nobody else had enough sense to call the phone call used the phone.

And I think one of the officers called my folks learned that I had family down there and contacted them and and they came up and got an attorney, negotiated my release on bond. I didn't want out, but I didn't know how to say that I didn't want out. And they I knew that I would never drink again.

I mean, God, how could you drink after something like that? If once you understand alcoholism, the question changes. How could you not drink after something like that?

And I did. Of course, I when I was released, stayed sober day and a half just by walking the streets of I couldn't stand to be around anybody. Couldn't stand to look at anybody.

I was ashamed of breathing. Stayed blind drunk from July till November of 56. And then the 19th November 56th was the date of what I hope and pray was my last drink.

Didn't know it was going to be, but I knew it was going to be for a long time cuz that day I was to be tried on on the charge of manslaughter. And I knew when I went to that court that I was not coming back. There was absolutely no no notion.

I didn't even want to come back. When I presented that my myself to that court, I knew that I was gone and I never believed I would ever come back to society again. The u it was really really telling to me when u my attorney had told me when they when they asked you to submit your plea uh he he had me to plea stand mute and I never knew there was such a plea.

I was always in a drunk line, you know, and just guilting was an automatic response and and he said stand mute. And and that's what I plead. What more could you say?

What more could you say? When you when you wake up in a blackout and you have not a clue what you've done, I couldn't even tell them what I'd done. They had to tell me what I'd done.

I was of course found guilty, sentenced to a 5 to 15 year sentence in in Michigan State Penitentiary. And um I remember that as clearly as if today and and I had an instinctive reaction of fear. I guess a very normal thing, but the most real sense of relief I'd ever known at the same time because I knew it was over.

Not optimism, not hope. I knew it was done. And I walked into that place the next day, resigned to my fate.

Never believed I would ever come out of there alive. And I would not have had I tried to get through doing that sentence on my own devices. If I tried to to to do my time in there on street behavior using my old skills, I'd have got eaten alive before breakfast.

And I don't have any illusion that's a was a nasty place to be. The the the f the day I walked in there, there were 6,000 guys locked up in that institution. Some very fine people.

Some some some that are my dear friends to this day. Some that are fellow members of Alcott Anonymous. One up in Detroit.

is one one of my closest friend on this earth I guess and uh but but a very very generous portion of the sorryest excuses for human beings I've ever seen and and that was my place to live and um who would have ever believed that in a place like that that was an absolute just wallto-wall negativity 24 hours a day a place where violence and tension and anxiety permeated every breath that you took. A place where where kindness was considered weakness and where the strong survived. Had I tried to to to cope in there with street behavior, there ain't no way I would not have made it.

And and so I I was a mighty beat up young fellow. I I was a very isolated guy and then would just hammered with that mountain of guilt. when they put me in there, I just sat in my cell.

Didn't communicate with anybody. Nobody. Never visited with anybody.

Just sat there like a guy in a coma almost. And um and then one day, it's it's an amazing thing to me. I'll never I'll never quit being marveled that by the uh by by what happened.

You know, with with a runaway killer illness like alcoholism, obviously it takes something profound to turn it around. Well, it makes something profound, but not just necessarily complex. And and the thing that is the thing that amazed me is that I'd had a lot of people talk to me about my alcoholism, but one day a guy called me out for an interview.

And I didn't think I had alcoholism. A lot of other people did think that, but I didn't. I And this guy called me out, little rookie social worker from Michigan State.

And uh interviewed me. Did a standard social work interview that I know now. And uh and I did a standard alcoholic response.

I'm confident I I couldn't have told the truth. I didn't even know the truth. And uh amazing thing was that he made exactly the same diagnosis everybody who had ever talked to me made.

Never wanted. My god, you're an awful drunk or you drink too much or you're an alcoholic. And and always it had gone on to something like why don't you quit drinking, you know, or other such wisdom as that or why don't you not why don't you drink less, you know, quit being so stupid with well I mean that was all nice.

didn't mean anything. And this guy exclaimed about my alcoholism. And then he said something I'd never heard before.

He said, "We have a group here at the institution. I think you ought to go." It wasn't an order. It wasn't he didn't draft me or anything like that.

It was just sort of a flat statement. We have a group. You ought to go.

And uh and I really believe the only reason I went to that first meeting in Groundhog Day 57 was the day I walked into that first meeting. That's my surprise date. And uh the day I walked in, I had not a clue what to expect.

Probably much like you were at your first meeting. Didn't have a clue. They and they they ran the meeting much like we ran this.

They prayed same prayer. Same prayer. I not change one lick, read the same steps, same how it works, uh traditions, the whole bit.

They prayed and I knew they were going to pray. I mean, I couldn't imagine anybody helping drunks that didn't pray about it. I mean that just sort of sort of went with it and and so they a lot of it was sort of in the norm of what I would expect and uh then they introduced the speaker and when I think back to the things that fell in place to make this program come alive for me they were little things but they were critical things and and yeah I'm one who believes that first we were talking some about meetings you know and and and and and walking into some rag tag misshaped thing called that's supposed to look like alcohol.

I always worry about that the the the impact of that first impression because they're so difficult to overcome and thank God when I walked into that group even though it was in a maximum custody penitentiary or maybe because it was in a maximum custody penitentiary. I've never been in a more solid group. Well, maybe the one I'm in now, but it it would be close competition because it was an excellent group of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And uh many things in that group came to have great meaning and great value for me. And I I'll just mention a little of it. I I know at that first meeting the thing that I think the probably the most critical thing that happened in terms of immediate impact was a guy who spoke at the meeting was a guy named Sha Sha Shai Walker.

Wasn't his name, but that's what he went by. Shywalker from Kazoo, Michigan. And and he was a guy with an unbelievable history.

It just I I'd never seen anybody like like that that that talked about it. I mean, I'd seen people with bad history, but he didn't talk about him. And this guy talked about it like it was a Medal of Honor or something, you know?

He got up there and told that story. I never heard a drunk tell anything like that. And I didn't identify with it.

And he was as different from me as anybody ever met. I didn't I didn't identify with the experience. I didn't identify with the the type of fell he was.

He wasn't the same kind of guy I was. And the amazing thing is that I came back the next week. And the only reason that I came back was not curiosity.

It was not because I thought I might have a drinking problem. I didn't believe I did. The only thing that brought me back is that I was a guy at the absolute bottom.

And and I know that now. And this guy gave off some signal of life. They didn't say words, but he had that galvanizing magnetic spirit of enthusiasm that I think is just as valuable as a transfusion.

That guy just gave me a little hint of enthusiasm that there may be life after so and and that's the only reason. The next week I found myself sitting in that room didn't a bit more consider myself a member than anything. But I I kept back.

I stayed in that place three and a half years. never missed a single meeting whether it was once a week or once a day. I never never missed a single one.

Now for a good while it was not any sense of of of belonging. Yeah. I sat in there.

There were 300 people in that group and uh they all said they were alcoholics. I'd say I was too, but it didn't mean a thing. It was just a word.

And uh I am so thankful that that that group that I was in was a solid group that went about the the purpose of the fifth tradition. You know, I believe that every time we meet, I don't care what the venue, the primary purpose is what it's all about. Just like here tonight, this weekend, we're we're having a good time.

We're having some relaxation. We're figuring out on unknown substances and but that's not our primary purpose. You know, those things contribute to our primary purpose of reaching the alcoholic who still suffers.

And so they're tremendously important. But I think wherever we meet, our general service conference that'll meet in three weeks, its primary purpose is those young folks who walked in here tonight or those whoever we are in here who may still be suffering. And so that's what we're about and that's what that group was about.

Thank God. They went about it in a great way. They did a super job of introducing new people to alcoholics.

They didn't just keep saying, "Well, come on back. It'll rub off on you rat manure." It didn't say anything even rhyme with that. They explained in very logical terms what this design for living is about.

The first three months that I was in this program, guys from that group every week would meet with new people, three-month people, and go over this design for living that we call alcohol economics. Take some of the mystery out of it that it's not some misstique that happens to a fortunate few. It's a very logical, rational plan for living.

I've been a manager for well, I'm retired now, but I've been a manager for 35 years or so. And my whole life has has worked around planning and projections and evaluations and designs for for things. I have never seen a single design that has more logic and power and reason than the design for living in alcohol synonymous.

didn't look that way to start with, but I found it to be so. And and I was given that just by a bunch of guys. Only difference between them and me is that their stage of repair was just a little ahead of mine.

And they turned around, did what we're supposed to do and say to the guy behind them, hey, here's what we did. No rocket scientists, just sort of guys for finding a way through. I'll always be grateful for that.

It gave me a fundamental grounding in this program that was tremendously important. wasn't healed. Still didn't believe I was an alcoholic deep down, but I kept coming back.

I've always been a reader and I read read everything we had. We we didn't have a lot that Billy's got a copy of the second booklet ever published at AA and we we had about 12 things when I came into AA and about 125,000 members. So, we didn't have a lot.

So, I read all that stuff. It was more like reading at the library though. I didn't really hook into it.

was just I knew the words and I'll tell you the the the the next significant thing one one I'll say one more thing about that group I'm a group guy because I guess that's where I started and your legacy always comes from its foundation and and and so I'm I'm I'm a group guy because looking back that group meant so much to me because it was the first place I ever invested trust in my life. Now, I was always somebody who didn't believe words. I didn't believe nobody about nothing.

And I was not somebody who had any notion that somebody was going to go out of their way to do something for me. Trust was born in Alcoholics Anonymous because I saw people doing exactly what they said they would do, carrying out exactly what they said their commitments would be. And that gave me trust that there was something here.

The first power that I ever believed in in my life, I mean ever in my life was the power that I sensed in that group. And I'm not talking about collective muscle. I'm talking about a spiritual power that was greater than us that permeated that room.

That's the first power I ever believed in. That's the f first power that I ever honestly prayed to. always be grateful for that.

That happens in strong purposeful groups. May not happen in just little coffee patches. It was powerful for me and and so I'll always be grateful that that those are are tremendously important things.

I I mentioned in the beginning, fellowship is a powerful thing and I don't minimize it whatsoever, but it isn't enough. It isn't enough. Yeah.

I I'll give you one example of what why I think that's so so important and why it's so important to have full resolution about this illness. I believe that recovery comes out of surrender. I don't think it's connected much at all to affirmation and and all this kind of stuff.

It comes out of surrender. It comes out of defeat and uh and how tremendously important it is to have that thing resolved at death. You know, there's a place in our book where it talks about it and it uses a rather innocuous sounding term in in in the in the in the third chapter was where it's describing alcoholism and it says the something like this that we had to concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics.

That word concede is tremendously important because it moves to a different level. You know, like I told you, I was an alcoholic when I started out. That's one level of admission.

That's not first step. That's communication to me. It's where I say, "Cliff says he's an alcohol." I say, "Yeah, me too." Okay, we can talk.

That's one level. Concede is an inside job. Concede is what I do when I know I am absolutely whipped.

I'm whipped. And then I concede to my innermost self, man, it's done. and how important that is.

I'd been in the program three and a half years, very very active, strong member. I was a founding member of AA in the town that I was in by then at three three and I was I was wildly active in AA been to a meeting the night before and I then I had to make a trip to Detroit while on a plane. Nothing radical about that.

It was a jet my first jet I'd ever seen. They they they invented those while I was drunk. I woke up and here they're flying with no propellers, you know, and I and I might have been a little interested in that, but I mean I was a rattle about about anything.

Well, we got on the plane and you know the drill, you know, you get on that plane and that sucker doesn't even level off. They start hustling that hooch, you know. And uh I heard that all my life and they start telling what they got on the cart and they usually pay no attention to it.

Might as well be music. I paying no attention, but all at once I heard it. You know what I mean?

I heard it. And for I don't know why, but all at once my mind shifted to that that that booze and I developed an overwhelming obsession to drink. Now, I'm not talking about goofy thinking like, "Yeah, I'm 30,000 ft in the air.

Who would know?" or maybe I'm not really an alcoholic. I have never doubted it one second since I admitted it and conceded it at them. Not that or wouldn't the drink be nice?

Didn't even enter the picture. There's a place in the in the book that says something like I can't quote anything unless I make it up but but it says something like this that the time will come with a mind like mine that the the the thought of a drink will be so powerful that no human power will be sufficient. That ain't poetry.

go back and read that sucker again because that's exactly what happened. You know, I'm a spiritual giant. I'm a leader in aa in in my community.

And I've got no presenting difficulties. I've got no major crisis on my hands. I've had no euphoria.

I didn't win the lottery. I'm just a guy on a plane who all at once has an absolutely gut-wrenching obsession. And I knew that I was going to drink.

And fellow alcoholics, I didn't want to drink. And I was caught in that all too familiar dilemma of I don't want to drink, I'm going to drink. Took a dollar out of my pocket, put it in my shirt pocket, sat there sweating bullets.

That's why conceding to my innermost self is so important because I didn't want to drink and I thought about what you're supposed to do. I' heard in meetings that you ought to remember your last drink did that help some ain't enough. And that bad memories won't do it.

And then I heard that when the chips are down and you're right up against it and you excuse me don't know what to do, pray. Now I'm the same guy who walked in here didn't even know they our father. But I developed a belief in that power that I sensed between those 300 hairylegged convicts and I believe that power could could save my life.

So I prayed. Wasn't much of a prayer by preacher standards. Only the most profound prayer that man's ever uttered.

From the depth of my soul, I said, "God, help me." The obsession was gone as quickly as it came. I believe that happens to folks sometimes who are just not prepared for it. And I believe when it happens, you're either prepared or you're dead meat.

There ain't no middle ground. And so I had to concede to my innermost self. And and and the way that started to come about for me was uh I don't think I've ever really intended to do anything I did of substance and alcoholics.

I don't know that I've ever planfully done something. I sort of get trapped into it. And uh I usually talk as if I've done it a while before I've done it too.

And so one day I I went to a meeting, didn't mean to do anything life-changing, but fella spoke unusual talk. He spent the entire meeting talking about nothing but the inventory step, four step made the searching for his moral inventory of ourselves. And we got I knew the words.

I' I'd read that and I'd seen the stuff in there and I' I' somewhat familiar what he what he was saying in in in the words, but there's a difference between the words and the action. And when he finished that thing, I went over to myself and I said, "Okay, I'm going to do that." And I'd been sort of thinking about how a nice fellow like me got in such a mess is what I was really thinking about. And uh I what I meant to do I didn't mean to write any searching and fearless moral inventory.

I might have called it that. But what I really meant to do was to write a little explanation about how a nice fellow like me got in such a mess and what a victim of circumstances I was. And you you know the drill.

The founders were wise when they said to write it. I sat down on the edge of my bunk. I started to write.

I wrote two lines of what I had in in mind and then I swear to you with absolutely no preparation. It was as if I hit a wall. It was as if I hit a wall.

And that charade stopped for the first time in my life with all of that pretense and sham and and and delusional kind of junk. All at once I hit the wall and it was over. the sh charade was over and almost in one motion I shifted in and just opened up and and it was a just a torrent of tortured and twisted stuff that had been been bound in my life forever.

Wasn't a classic looking inventory. Wasn't in columns and spaced out and all that. Didn't have a lot of analytical thinking into it.

What some folks call that is a cathartic experience. I guess I just sort of opened up and it just poured. I couldn't have not taken an inventory had I wanted.

Wasn't much of an inventory. But I'll tell you this, it was without question the most important days work this old boy has ever done in his entire life. Bar none.

Bar none. More important than the day I married this little lady. more important than the day my son was born or my daughter was born or my career started or my career ended.

More important because that foundation became the foundation for the life that makes these things possible. That day I knew I conceded to my innermost self that I was beat. I'm an alcoholic.

I'm not a heavy drinker. I'm not a drunk. I'm not an aggravated case.

I'm not a problem drinker. I'm an alcoholic. I have an illness whose nature is that if I take one drink of anything with alcoholic alcohol in it, I simply cannot predict my behavior.

I have never doubted that one second to this day. The foundation for recovery was born in old time. That day I became a member of alcohol novice.

Didn't sign anything. Didn't tell anybody. Don't have to.

But I've never gone to an AA meeting since without knowing 100% why I'm there. I'm a man with a purpose. I'm a man who's committed to a program of recovery.

I know why I'm here tonight and have absolutely no illusions about it. So it changed the nature of the game. And I've never once since been the lost face in a crowd.

Not one single time since. So I don't overstate that when I talk about in my mind about the importance of conceding and giving up all of that mental kind of jousting with the world and getting up saying man I am whooped. It was a good fight, but it's over and I lost.

And it opens up the door for a new life. And and and and I I jumped in with both feet with wide open. And uh there some people say that Alcoholics Anonymous in in in in a prison is a bit of a a qualified type of recovery.

You better believe it's a qualified type of recovery. toughest living I have ever done in my life is living in that zoo. The most powerful product this program has ever given me was allowed me to live in that kind of an entire environment with dignity, with some honor, with some concern for other human beings.

My god, it's never been more powerful for for me because what I did was uh the guys didn't I didn't volunteer to get in service or anything. The guys in that group, that's just what they did. Nobody asked me if I wanted to get in on it.

They' just say, "Come on." And and I started functioning as a member of Alcoas in in full in full stride and and uh had a wonderful time. Wonderful time. uh did the same thing stuff we did here.

Started new groups. Started one in a mental health unit one time, you know, looney bin and uh interesting meeting. Sometimes we had several going on at the same time and and uh and it did a lot for me.

Yeah. Helped start Narcotics Anonymous came out shortly after I came into AA. it it started to exist as a fellowship and and back then we didn't have any dissension and stuff much about drug we didn't have a lot of of of the drug culture and the way we have it now we had a lot of horse junkie and uh I never had used any of that stuff it looked dull to me I sold some but I never did use any you but anyway they we we we were sort of mixed up then and what we noticed was that when drunk to talking junkies sort of zoned out and vice versa.

And so we got interested in that that NA thing that started, listen to how I say this now, that we, the members of the recovery group, my old home group, helped the guys who were junkies who wanted to do so, start a group of narcotics anonymous. We weren't members. We were good neighbors and we helped start that group.

One of the things in my legacy, whatever it is, that I am deeply grateful for is that that group exists to this day. Suppose we' have just said, "Oh, just come on in here and hang out with us. You'll be okay." Little lonely.

Little lonely. And what we did was said, "Let's find the place and let's get into this, dude." And tremendously important work. Anyway, it was a great experience for me.

I and and it worked for me as effectively as it ever has. I became a free man locked up like a monkey in a zoo and I and I became a free man in every sense of the word except physically. I I got turned on to living.

You know, most alcoholics, there are some notable exceptions, but most alcoholics do have fairly good drive. You know, I don't know if it's compulsive behavior or what, but we tend to be pretty well well geared people. We we we like to get on with stuff right quick like.

And most of us first come in want to get two or three jobs make up for for lost time. And we you don't need to say giddy up to most of us. You need to say whoa.

And uh and I was no different. You I had an awful lot of energy back then. I'd uh I won't get off color track with this too much, but I I was not a pure alcoholic.

I don't know if there's ever been such a thing. I used everything I knew about except heroin. That's the only thing I called.

But anything else, if it had any any even suggestion, it might make me feel better. And especially make the party last longer and then I'd gobble that sucker up. I I was I was quite a speed mechanic.

I I really really admired speed and uh I'd chomp that stuff and just go wow for three or four days and just just absolutely dissipate from every pore. And then when I finally crash and come out of it, I mean, I'm just dead. And my big old black circle look like a raccoon with big old black circle around my eyes.

Dead. That stuff stays with you. I don't know if I'm permanently brain damaged or not.

Sometimes I may be what caused me to leave my wife today. I I it's it's a it's an old war injury from my battle with I I don't know if it's permanent brain but I can tell you this there is a residual effect to that stuff that that's interesting. I when I got sober and got that stuff out of my system I discovered that I couldn't sleep in a dark room.

That's a little testy. You know, when you're a cute young thing in a maximum custody penitentiary, I'm the youngest guy in there, and I was one of the cutest guys in there. Now, I can just see me going out on the yard and saying, "Y'all know I can't sleep.

I'm kind of afraid of that." Now, I wasn't going to say that because I knew somebody would offer soloulless for that condition. And uh but it was a it was a bear of a thing. I couldn't sleep.

And and I'm I'm I'm absolutely amazed at the wisdom you you you hear in alcohol knowledge. Went to the meeting one day. Guy mentioned that that he had a tremendous problem with being able to sleep when he when he came in.

And uh he said, "What I've learned is that if you can't sleep, stay awake." And that's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. But it made sense. And I started staying awake because I couldn't sleep.

I enrolled in Michigan State University over television, finished two years of my college education while I couldn't sleep. Amazing what happens with how to make assets out of out of liabilities. And that's the kind of thing that I've learned for years.

Alcoholics. Well, I I I didn't have a good time in that place. I hated every second that I lived there, but I came alive and I became a functioning real member of Al Cox.

When I hit the street, all I had to do was keep doing it. And uh I just I just I wish I had time talking about it. I don't.

I I'll just kind of gloss over and then I won't explain why I said what it what it did to start with. When I hit the street, Yeah. I I'm I don't know how I compared to other guys walking out of there.

I do know this at the at the at the depth of my soul at the level of that that conceding thing. I had resolved and at where I live that I would never go through that experience again. And I meant that.

I meant that. And that's been many many many years ago. But I mean that just as fervently today.

And what I meant was that I would I would do anything that I had to do to to to avoid going through that indignity again. And and and so and I did mean that. But otherwise, I was just like anybody else.

I was just a guy with small dreams. I I wanted to find a way to make an honest living and hold a job for once. I I wanted to be a a part of a community.

I wanted to be a part of a family. I wanted to have friends. I wanted to be trusted by somebody.

Just little things that most people take for granted. And I'm happy to report to you that dreams come true. They truly do.

Every little dream I've ever had and some big ones that I wouldn't wouldn't have even dared to have came came true for me. And uh I I just tell you this to because I know that that that everybody is not in in Nirvana. There there there there are some people have some rough going and and u just just in the interest of folks that might be a little shaky in the hope department, let me assure you that there's hope and let me also assure you that I'm exactly who I said I am.

I'm nobody special. I wasn't some brilliant na society guy who just sort of strayed off and then straightened up and jumped to his potential. No, I'm a guy who turned around by the grace of God, excuse me, and was given a a a chance in a program called a and that's all.

I am absolutely nobody special. And uh when I hit the street, I I was a pretty practical-minded sort of guy. I got immediately active.

I started doing prison work right after I got out. Two months after I was out, I was I was named outside sponsor of a prison. Now you imagine now nobody usually cuts cartwheels getting something like that.

But can you imagine what that meant for me? I didn't walked out of one of these places where I was absolutely a zero. I wasn't at the bottom of the barrel.

They moved it over and dug a hole. That's where I was. And two months later, I'm a trusted servant going back into one of those places and out.

A tremendous thing. About the same time, my parole supervisor came through one day and he said, "Tom, you're real active in AA." It concerned me a little because I I thought he would want me to slow down and I I wouldn't do that. I knew it.

And and he said, "Wouldn't it wouldn't it help you if you could drive?" And I said, "Yes, sir, but I can't." Like he didn't know. And uh a little he said, "Well, let me let me take a look at that." And a little later, a couple weeks, he called me and and said, "Meet me at the Sears store." And I had my sister drive me up there. And and story is absolutely true.

It it it that that at Sears store was just one long room and at the at the rear end of it was a counter and my man was standing back there with a guy I didn't know who turned out to be the license agent. Went back, introduced me to the guy, we talked a bit. Visiting is all we did.

I didn't take a road test, a written test, a verbal test, no test. When we got through visiting, the guy handed me a driver's license. Didn't even pay for it.

Now, you know that there's something shaky about that. There just can't be that. That's on the up and up.

But I've been driving ever since, you know. So, you can call that anything you like. It wouldn't matter to me and believe except political connection.

Don't call it that. Now, I knew one politician in that county that was the sheriff for whom I was a regular customer. I don't think he would have been an advocate.

What I believe is this is that when I give my life to this simple program and I agree to do his work, the walls will come down. And I don't care what those walls are. I can't help but believe that not only on evidence of my life, but on the unbelievable life.

God knows you guys have seen them just like I have. The unbelievable recoveries and restorations that are common place. that are common place and and so it's just a powerful thing that if I'd been planning and scheming and trying to make stuff happen like that, the old guy trying to be in charge, I guarantee you I'd be walking today.

But I gave my life to this simple program and let it take me into a new life. And uh two years after I died, I sitting in my house one day got a call from our state capital and the guy I'd met the guy that was on the phone one time and he asked me uh identified himself. He had visited the group for which I was sponsored one time and only time I'd ever seen him and he he he got on the phone.

He said, "Mr. Ivester uh we were expanding the rehabilitation program in our prison system and we were wondering if you would consider accepting a position in that and the first thing I said to that guy now back then there had never been an ex-con hired anything like that. I don't think anybody ever even thought of it.

I sure hadn't. And so he told me that and I said my god man I'd rather do that. First thing I said was do you know who you're talking to?

And and he said yeah we know you better than you know yourself probably. And they did. And uh and and inside, you know what I said?

They ain't no way, man. They they had never done like it. They ain't going to start with me.

But they did. And they offered me a job as a rehab supervisor in the rehab officer in the uh in in the correction system. And and it was just absolutely an unbelievable.

I mean, there ain't no way that can happen. And and and but sure enough, I went to work, had a marvelous time for for a number of years. That's what I did.

Worked in rehab, started to work my way up a little bit. wasn't trying to, but it's the amazing thing about good performance. It just pushes you up, you know, sometimes further than you want to go.

And that's what happened there. I I went up through moved into management and and and one day the head of our system called me in, asked me to come by. He said that Tom got an assignment I'd like you to take.

I said, "What?" Now, normally he'd want me to pitch head for him somewhere. He said, 'I would like for you to take over an institution as warden. And I I swear to God, even though I was in the system, that is still an unbelievable thing to me.

I don't know of it ever happening anywhere else in the world except one. I hear rumors of Montana. I'm going to check that sucker out.

I I need a companion somewhere. But and and I didn't really want to do it, but I agreed. And then finally finally finally did and for the next 20 years that's what I did was uh ran institutions and had a it was a grand career.

It's a lousy job but I had a grand career enormous power in that job and that's one of the reasons I took it not to be powerful but I just thought that if I had enough power and influence I might be able to do some things that needed done and that then that did indeed happen. I' I've um I have some treasured memories of things that I was able to make a contribution some of which were directly on my men's list that were related to what I was able to do professionally and and uh so that was a tremendously fine experience and then the last several years I I I was not running institution. I retired December one and I really know how to retire.

I uh to the untrained eye, you wouldn't see much difference that I retired the way I think I would have wanted to do it. Some people have a sort of a lunch and then they go out and eat hot dogs or whatever. I spent the last night of my employment in a close custody institution in the east part of our eastern part of our state sort of refereeing a range war and uh and then dropped in on a an AA meeting with about 80% guys in a in the in the prison and I finished up.

That's where it wasn't that any different. And when I retired, I had already been nominated as the correctional facilities committee chair for North Carolina. So, I stepped out.

The only difference was I just quit getting a paycheck. And uh now I'm still involved in prison just as much as ever. And and u I'm I'm back where I started.

That that's a great place. I'm I'm now a full-time volunteer in a system in which I I had a great career. So I've I've strange kind of a homecoming.

It that's my professional deal. I mention that because of the I hope the obvious obvious implications of hope in that because if that can happen to me, God only knows what can happen to any alcoholic who will give himself to this program. I I'll just wrap up around this.

I'm I'm a I'm an enormously fortunate man. I I've been richly rewarded now. I I've been as busy in AA for 44 years as anybody I've ever met.

I I' I've been an incredibly busy man in alkai, but I have been the most richly rewarded man that that I know. And and life has been good. We've had a good family life and we've had a a good home.

And uh and and and I don't take that for granted. the uh I'll say just one thing and then wrap up on on the on what I want to do about why am I still enthusiastic all these years you many people I know that there are a number of people in this room who are active in in in in service and I hope all of you are because for my money that's where the joy is that's where the excitement there's a place in the book where it says that that in our recovery our imagination will be fired I'll guarantee you not drinking will not fire imagination. It's what I do with that and it's in what I do in my active being a channel in this program that fires my imagination and and and so I hope very much that that that that you're involved in that.

Um I've been involved up to my ears and anybody that's involved up to their ears has concerns. you worry sometimes about the impact on families. And as much as I've been been busy, I've always I've got a young family and I have concerns.

I have a wife. It's one thing for me to be heroic and get on a plane and go to Kansas and miss planes and sleep overnight sitting in a thing. That's one thing.

But that's nothing compared to the family I leave behind who have to handle every single thing that happens. And so you can't help but worry when you're active in the program about the price you pay. Well, I'll tell you this after 44 years of that kind of thing.

If there is anything in my family that has been injuriously uh impacted by this activity, I don't know it. My we have been enormously blessed and enhanced. Kids have done well.

We haven't even been separated. We've been separated sometimes in the house, but we haven't been separated outside, you know, in other ways. But it's been a good deal.

And this program's at the heart of it. This little gal never saw me drink. I was sober 11 years when we married.

And I heard her tell somebody one night, "Had it not been for Alanon, our marriage wouldn't have survived a hot minute." I believe it's enormously important for families to recover together so that there is a spiritual kind of communion about what's going on in divisiveness. The way I look at it is this that Alcoholics Anonymous sometime we say that you know AA's got to be here jobs here. I'm one who believes that Alcoholics Anonymous does not compete with anything in my life.

I mean none. If there's anything in alcohol synonymous that I'm doing that's competing with any anything else in my life, I'm not doing it right. If it doesn't make me a better husband, a better employee, a better supervisor, a better manager, a better citizen, I guarantee you I'm not doing it right.

So, it's not designed to be hurtful. It's designed to bring peace, harmony, joy, worth, and purpose to a life. And so, I'm I'm a tremendous rewarded guy.

I'm a guy who believes that this is a plan for living. It's not a sideline activity that I visit. This is a way of life.

And I'm a I'm a I'm an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Panzer and I go to the same group in North Carolina. And I am a strong active member of alcohol.

I didn't used to be. I'm a guy who who is is is in it as deeply as I'm able to be in it. and a guy that's committed to what's going on.

And it's not because I'm a lonely guy. I'm a a guy that's committed to home groups. And my group is a strong group.

That's what I want. I want a strong group for two reasons. One, I want a place that I can go and the climate is healing.

I want a place where it's solutionoriented, where you can walk in and you feel like we're dealing in the business of getting better. I want that for myself. In addition to that, I want my home group to be a strong place because it's where I do my work.

Now, I don't care how cute and wise and sinwide I might be with somebody I'm working with. If I don't have a strong group to take them to, I'm false advertising. because I know better than what I can deliver.

See, I believe that in sponsorship, my job is simple. It's to help the person understand that there's a solution and that I'm not it. I'm the channel.

And so, my group is where I want to have confidence that if I take somebody, they're going to have a fighting chance to deal with an absolute killer illness. And so I want my home group for that and I want it to be a good place and it is a good place. The the product of that is a guy and I don't think I have gone slap happy.

I'm a guy in my 44th year fourth year I truly am having my best year. So far I've never sponsored a soul that could keep up with me. not race it either, but it's just something that happens.

I hear old-timers talking about the old days and romancing what we used to be. You won't hear me talking about what we used to do unless I'm making a point because I'm busy with what I'm doing today. If you're not on fire with your recovery, if you're not so doggone grateful to be a member of Alcoholics Anonymous that you can't sit still, if you can't wait to get back home so you can check on those folk that you're working with.

If you're not hooked into this thing knowing that you're a vital link in a chain that reaches around this world, for God's sakes, man, don't let it pass you by cuz you're the loser when you do that. Good luck. Thanks.

Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.