Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. My name is Jay Plumbck and I'm an alcoholic.

>> Hi everyone. I had to get that damn thing out of my face. Everybody here is normal size.

Yeah. I was sitting next to Bob over there and uh I asked him. I said, "Now I just tell me you're not her husband." He didn't tell me what he told you.

He said, "Do you see any scars?" He said, "Feel the back of my I'm not a doubting Thomas." I took his word. I want to thank you for inviting me here. Uh Mike called me a while ago and and told me that on behalf of the committee, he'd like to know if I'd come up here and and share share with you this weekend.

And I told him I'd be honored to and I am. And I want to thank Mike and the rest of the committee for making me feel so welcome. It's just it's been absolutely fantastic.

Just fantastic. And I know the rest of the weekend's going to be as good as this part has been as soon as this part is over. And I didn't plan on being here either, you know.

Hell, I can't remember, you know, ever sitting down and saying, you know, I can't wait until I get into my 50s and on a Saturday night get to Northern Illinois and tell them about me. Wasn't my plan. I had other plans.

I I I was born to an upper middle class family in a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio, and a nice suburb. And uh I don't talk much like I was from Cleveland, but that's where I was from. But when I was growing up, I had a lot of other things I wanted to be.

Growing up and being a wino wasn't one of them. Uh I wanted to be a policeman one time. I thought that'd be good.

You know, I wanted to be a lawyer one time. I'd read a book. I remember in school about Clarence Darrow.

God, that impressed me. You know, reading about he was good. He was flamboyant and and he made a lot of money.

And I said, I want to be like that. I I had all these things I wanted to be. I never did say I wanted to be a drunk.

But I didn't know that I wasn't going to be able to be any of those things cuz I wasn't willing to pay the price in order to attain any of those other any of those other dreams. There's a price to be paid. I'd have to go to school and I'd have to learn things and do things and and I wasn't willing to pay that price.

And yet, if you'd have told me the price that I was going to pay to gain admission to Alcoholics Anonymous, I'd have said, "You're crazy." If you'd have told me I was going to sacrifice a family and ruin a career, destroy my health, and almost lose lose my life to get here, I'd have said, "You're nuts. I'll never do that." And yet, I did just that, just to get here. I had some things wrong with me as far back as I can remember that I didn't think were wrong.

They were just a part of me, you know? I accept them as just everybody had them. I thought I had a feeling of anger as far back.

I didn't know I had this now. I just had it. It was there.

I didn't uncover any anger in me until I was sober about a year and a half. I was sober in Alcoholics Anonymous year and a half doing everything they told me to do. I was sort of a poster child of AA, you might say.

Well, I made coffee and cleaned ashtrays and and you know, I'd talk if they asked me and I went to all the meetings and made good comments. The way I made them is I'd go to a lot of meetings and I'd hear you talk about step four and I'd go over there next night and talk about step four and I mean I and I'd do it real well, you know. So, and but I was doing everything.

I was everything in my home group, the New West Respironza group that first year and a half that they'd let me be. I never was treasurer. I still ain't been tre my sobriety March the 8th, 1974.

And through God's grace, I've not had a drink from that day to this and I still ain't been treasurer. I don't know why. Maybe my group will change their mind.

Well, no, they're broke. Maybe another group. But but I was doing everything in AA except working the steps.

Now, that had sort of sorted I hadn't done that, but uh I was at a meeting one night and after the meeting at New West Bronze, a guy put his arm around my shoulder and he told me that he loved me and he told me that I was a phony and I was about to get drunk. and I hated him, but I knew inside of me that he was telling the truth. And he carried me home with him that night and set me down on the stoop of his trailer.

And he talked to me about Alcoholics Anonymous. He explained to me that guys like me couldn't get by just not drinking. I was going to have to do more.

I'd be drunk. Vince last night talked about desperation. And I understood desperation because at that point, a year and a half sober, I was completely desperate.

John talked to me about unmanageability in my life. You know, I had accepted prior to that that I was powerless over alcohol, but that wasn't enough. There was unmanageability in my life, sober a year and a half.

He pointed out I was going bankrupt. He pointed out to me that a year and a half sober, my wife and I weren't getting along at all. My kids hated me.

And as he pointed out these areas in my life, and I looked at him and talked about them, I knew that my life was unmanageable. And at that point, I accepted step one. And we boiled it down to two words, that I can't.

And he talked to me about step two. And I accepted that God could God could restore me to sanity. I just came to believe that and I and I accepted that.

And based on those two facts, we got on our knees and we prayed the prayer in the book, Step Three. You know, I got a pretty good mind. I know that now.

And I've been able to memorize a lot of things. And I've never memorized that prayer. And yet, I say it on a daily basis today.

I don't take step three on a daily basis, but I reaffirm that decision. I have that prayer written out and I'll read it every morning. We read it that night.

And and I remember getting off our knees, John had a tablet all ready for me, a yellow legal tablet. And he had it in four columns. He had it drawn out and he said at the top of the first column, he said, "I want you to write the word I resent." And I said, "John, I don't resent anybody." He said, "One of you put down, I hate." Well, hell, I can do that.

I hated everybody. I didn't know anybody I didn't hate, including him. Now, the speaker Ajet said this afternoon, "Put yourself at the top of the list." Hell, that ain't what John told me.

He said to put another guy at the top of the list. He told me he said put down the name Siraj. Now that don't mean nothing to you, but it meant something to me.

It was a guy living in my house. He was from he was an Indian. Now he wasn't from India like Bombay where Ajit's from.

He was from Sri Lanka which is an island off the coast of India. And he was living in my house. He was sleeping in a bed in my house, my son's bed.

And my son was sleeping on the floor and I hated him. He was my business partner. I brought him over here.

It was a condition of them being partners with me as I had to bring him over here on a visa. So he was living in my house and I hated him. I put his name down.

I hate Siraj. And as I put it down, I knew that I did. And then John said, "Put down why you hate him." And I put down why I hated him.

He's sleeping in my son's bed. I put down he's eating raw meat. We're eating beans.

I put down he got my money. I had some money and I was broke and I hated him for it. And as I put down the reasons that I hated him because he wore a dress.

Now, they didn't call it a dress. They called it a sorry, but it was a dress. And as I put down why I hated them, the hate was there on paper where I could see it.

And I went back through my my whole life starting from that point backwards and I put down who I hated and why I hated them. And I found that I hated my parents almost as far back as I can remember. But if you'd have told me to start that off, put down that I hate my parents.

I couldn't have done it. But I did it doing it the way it was in the book. And I found that there was anger in my life as far back as I could remember.

And yet I had accepted it. Had accepted. I was a liar as far back as I can remember.

Now I did not consider myself a liar. I just lied. It was a way of life with me.

You know, Angelique was right last night. Boy, she made a good talk, you know. But uh when she talked about alcohol and she tried to apologize that some of us lie.

Hell, I like lying, you know. I mean, today I I sort of lean that way once in a while. You know, I if you ask me on the phone how much I weigh, I'm liable to say 165.

But, you know, lying, I could be whatever you wanted me to be. I thought it was a gift from God. Really?

If you wanted me to be smart, I tell you I was smart. If you wanted me to be a thief, I could tell you what a good whatever you wanted. I could use my mouth and I tell the lie.

And the difference between my lies and the lies that other people told were that I believed them. And when when you didn't believe them when I told them to you, I'd get mad. So I was a liar as far back as I can remember.

I was also a thief as far back as I can remember. And I didn't consider myself a thief. I guess I figured I was a short fat Robin Hood or something.

I might take something from Vince and I turn around and give it to Mike. Now I didn't take it from me. I took it.

Just took it. And I didn't consider the fact that he'd earned money and bought this thing, whatever it was. What I figured was if I give it to Mike, he'd want me to be around.

See, now if I was talking to one of them counselors or something, they'd tell me that I was trying to buy someone's love. But hell, I wasn't doing that. I was just doing that.

And nobody taught me that. See, a lot of times people got to learn that. I didn't have to learn it.

It just came natural. And I think that's a part of alcoholism. I didn't feel like I fit in.

I didn't feel like I was a a part of that family that I was born to. You know, uh, I never remember my mom or dad ever hugging me or kissing me or telling me that they love me. Yet, I'm sure they must have.

I look at my sisters. I have a sister a year older and one a year younger. One three years, four years younger than that.

I have a kid brother that was born when I was 18 years old. And I have seen my my brother and sisters given physical and emotional love from my mom and dad throughout their lives. And I'm sure because of that that they did the same things for me.

And yet there was something in me that kept me from ever feeling it and has kept me from ever remembering it. And I think that's a part of my alcoholism. And yet those things, the lying and the stealing and the not getting not feeling like I was a part of all that stuff going on did not make me an alcoholic.

That just made me a screwed up kid. You know, I remember and I didn't want it to be that way. I wanted to feel comfortable.

I could look around and everybody else got along and felt good and and that's how I wanted to be. I remember, you know, I at about eight, well, I remember going to the first grade. It seems like we got a lot of people went to parochial schools.

I went to a parochial school and I remember the first grade I had a nun. Her name was Sister Lucy. God, I'll never forget her.

She's old. I mean, real old and she is ugly and and I She was dressed in early SNM. She had black and white and she had leather and chains hanging down.

She clanked when she walked and I was scared of her. You know, you're supposed to be. And I was and I remember in the first grade she called my parents told me to have my parents come in halfway through the school year and I had them come in and I didn't know what I had done but I knew I'd done something because I always knew there was something wrong when they wanted to see somebody and my parents went in to see her one afternoon like she like they were supposed to and and I remember I stood out the door eaves dropping.

I always was nosy, you know, and and she told my parents that it appeared as though I was a gift a gifted child and that I'd be able to go anywhere and do anything I wanted if I applied myself. And when I heard that, heard her telling him that my education stopped. I couldn't learn another damn thing.

I if I was that smart, how could I learn anything? There was a lot of dummies out there teaching. So, I started getting in trouble.

By the second grade, I'm being paraded in front of the class and being called the class clown. I remember. And and I kept doing things to get attention and I didn't know what it was and I didn't want it to be that way.

I wanted to be like the other kids in school. I remember in about the third grade, I really wanted to be like Roger. I had a kid lived up the street from me.

His goldenhaired, rosy cheek kid that His name was Roger. God, if I could just be like Roger, everything would be all right. Just let me be like him.

You know, Roger was also the kid you caught after school and beat the hell out of because the parents would always say, "Why can't you be like Roger?" And nobody wants, you know, someone held up like that. But that was going to be my life. If I could just be like someone else, I'd be all right.

You know, I got to it started to be that way. I'd see people and say, "If I could just be like this one, if I could just be like that one, it'd be all right." You know, one of the one of the greatest freedoms or tools that you gave me as a result of the tools is the fact that I no longer have to be just like anybody. When I said I'm Jay Plumbach and I'm an alcoholic, I said absolutely all there is to know about me that I need to know.

I know who I am and what I am and I am satisfied with that. I'm not comfortable with all the things that are still wrong with me, but there are tools that you've given me that can change those with God's help, but I can be me today. And what a great freedom that is.

Great freedom. Whether I was in school and I wasn't getting along, and I didn't want it to be that way. I wanted I wanted to, like I say, I just I I knew things could be better.

So, and the way I behaved, stealing and lying and not getting along, I started going in front of juvenile referees. First time I went in front of one, they sent me back home. and I was running away from home and I wound up in front of another one and they sent me off to an orphanage.

Now, it's crazy. I got parents. Why would I go to an orphanage?

But that's where they sent me. And and there were other guys in there and they weren't orphans either. They were just like me.

And I found out later what I was. They labeled me encourageable. Now, I guess that was the politically correct name for it.

I don't know. What I really was was a punk. I was just a juvenile delinquent punk.

And that's where they put punks into places like that to try and straighten them out. and they wanted me to get straightened out and I didn't know it. I thought it was a punishment deal and it wasn't that and I stayed there for a while and got back out and kept behaving the way I behaved and got locked up again and and I stayed locked up off and on until I was 17 and a half years old and a variety of different reformatories and places like that.

The last school I went to nth grade I was thrown out of a school. It was a parochial school I'd got to because of of of apparent abilities and they threw me out because I wouldn't go by the rules. I was back in another reformatory and I remember at 13 and a half years old a miracle came into my life.

Something that was going to change the whole direction of my life. You know, I decided to get a drink. I was on the street for a short period of time and I decided to drink.

And in Ohio, you had to be 21 years old to drink. Hell, I didn't even look 13. So, I stole an eyebrow pencil and I gave myself a beard and a mustache.

I remember doing it, but how darn if I can remember what it looked like, you know? I know it didn't look like text, you know, but it it was the best I could do with the tools I had. Yeah, here I'm a 13-year-old kid with 10,000 blackheads dotted on my chin and fade.

I have and I liberated some money, stole some money from my mother's purse. Hell, that's where I always go. Steal it.

I stole it from her purse and I went down on a skid row to get something to drink. And I don't know where I'd learned to go down on Skidro to drink. You know, maybe the places I'd been, I don't know.

And I'm sure that I had had alcohol. I had had alcohol in me prior to that. The reason I say I'm sure of it is because of the environment in which I lived.

My daddy was a drinker. And I mean, my dad drank all the time. He was a news analyst, news commentator, and analyst for for major radio station in the Midwest with a coast to coast hookup.

And he'd go to work early in the morning. And he had a drink in his hand when he left the house. When he come back in the house the afternoon, he had a drink in his hand.

He drank into all night. All he did was drink. And yet I never saw him drunk.

I never saw him slur his words. He just always drank. My mother drank regularly.

Two or three drinks every night to relax, she'd say. Never saw her out of the way or drunk. The family got together three or four times a year for gettogethers.

Fourth of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, that kind of stuff. And and they'd have kegs of wine and beer and mixed drinks. And whenever the adults drank, the kids drank.

And we didn't have to steal it. They gave it to us. It was just the way they lived.

Not much. We got a little bit of whatever the grown-ups had. So, I'm sure I had alcohol in me many times prior to a pray prior to my 13th year.

And yet, I remember nothing about it. I guess again, if I was talking to one of them counselors or something, they tell me that was my social drinking. And hell, they'd be right.

Yeah, we heard some talk about social drinking this weekend. That was social drinking. Social drinking is when it don't mean nothing or do nothing.

If you call my wife up, she's a professional social drinker. I felt sorry for her for a long time. But if if you ask her, say, "Von, when was the last time you had a drink?" She couldn't tell you.

If you asked her, "What did it taste like?" She wouldn't remember. She wouldn't it did nothing to her or for her, so it meant nothing. And that's what alcohol was to me till age 13.

But at 13, I made this decision to drink. And I remember we went to enough bars down there, enough joints down on the lower end of 25th Street, which is a skid row in Cleveland. And finally we got what we wanted.

We got two bottles of mixed screwdrivers and two bottles of Thunderbird wine. You know, and I can remember, you know, hell, I don't know why we ordered that. I can only guess.

Thunderbird's always been appealing to me. You know, you see, well, you used to have these billboards with the birds soaring through. It just looked free and wild.

God, it looked good. And the stuff that went along with it, you know, what's the word? Thunderbird.

You try and do that with Mogan David and you get no response at all. You know, it sort of had promise to it, you know, and screwdrivers, I guess, just cuz it sounded sexy. I don't know.

But we got that stuff and they put it in a sack and we went out behind the bar and started to drink. And I don't know which one we started with. Don't know what it tasted like.

But I know what happened shortly after we started drinking whatever we started with. For the first time in my life, everything came together and I was all right. For the first time in my life, it wasn't as though I didn't fit in.

I became enough. And I didn't even know that it happened. It's only in retrospect, as I look back at it, that I realize that it had to have been the most fantastic feeling a guy like me could have ever felt because I pursued the recapturing of it at every opportunity for the next 17 and 12 years.

And I never got it back quite the way it was that night. And I didn't even know what happened. I woke up the next morning in a way that I was going to wake up in over and over again until I got to you people.

I woke up in a mess and it was mine. I woke up with a new fear about me. I say a new fear about me because I've been afraid all my life.

I was always afraid. I was afraid of getting caught. I was afraid of not being able to love.

I was afraid of not being loved. I was afraid of getting out or I was afraid of going back in. I was afraid of heights.

I was afraid of hurt and I was afraid of being hurt and I had all fears. But I had a new fear that night. I didn't uncover that until I was taking that inventory that I started telling you about a little while ago.

You know, when I had them people on the list, let me get through that resentment thing first. I had that guy on that list, that guy Siraj, you know, and I told you what he had done to me or what I perceived he had done to me. And I went through that list and had everybody on there and what they had done.

And then John had me go back through the list to the next column and see how it affected me. I tell you how that guy affected me. It affected my security because I was going bankrupt.

It affected my self-esteem because I knew I wasn't doing my job as a husband and a father. It affected my sex life because she'd moved out of the bedroom. That'll affect your sex life.

It affected every area of my life. And underneath it all was fear. And I went through that list and put with everybody else on it the same way.

Every other resentment. And then John had me go back to the list. He said, "Now we're going to look at it from a different angle.

We're going to put out of our minds the wrongs that we think others have done and we're going to see where we were wrong." And I looked at that first instance and I saw where I was wrong. I pulled a guy out of his country many thousands of miles away from from where he was born, where his family was. We' broken a lot of laws in Sri Lanka.

We broken laws to the extent where he would never be able to return home. If he went back, he'd go to prison. And we did that because I was greedy.

Because we were importing and not drugs or anything. We were importing semi-precious stones. And we broke just so many laws over there coming out that there was no way he'd go back.

And I didn't care about that. I cared about the fact that I thought I'd become very, very rich doing that. I told you they got my money.

And I realized as I looked at that what my part in that was. I tried to get their money. I thought they were real wealthy and I'd be able to steal our money and it'd be all right.

It was business practices the way I'd looked at it. As I looked at the exact nature of the wrongs I had done to him and wrote them down on paper, an amazing thing happened. My hatred for him left.

I was no longer mad at him for what I thought he had done because I saw what I had done. And as I saw what I had done, I not only was relieved of the hatred, but I also had a game plan for what I was going to have to do to try and make things right, what I was going to have to do. And I went through that list and you know, I'm here to tell you, I don't know about anybody else and what happens when they take an inventory, but in my inventory, as I went through that fourth column, there was not a single resentment on there where I was not able to find where I was wrong.

In every one of them, I was able to find where I was wrong. wrong in some way. And as I did, it relieved me of the anger and the hatred that was coupled with it.

We got through with that part. We went on to fear. And John had me write my fears down.

And I listed them much like I told you. You know, all the things I was afraid of. I was afraid of her leaving.

Hell, I was afraid of her not leaving. You know, they were both real. It depended what time of day it was.

But when I got them all down on paper, John said, "Let's get on our knees and ask God to remove them." And we got on our knees and I prayed. I just said, "God, please take him. I can't handle him." And I told John, "I'm still afraid." And he said, "What are you afraid of?" And I said, "I don't know.

I just feel afraid." And he opened up the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, to Bill's story. Where Bill talked about that fear of impending calamity. And John put it in words that weren't quite so fancy.

John says, "It's the fear that something bad's going to happen and you can't stop it." And hell, I knew that fear. That was that fear that when the doorbell rang, I wouldn't answer it. When the envelope came in the mail and there was no return address, I was afraid to open it.

When the phone rang, I didn't want to answer it. I knew that fear and I saw where gone back through my life. Bill says again, he talks about it being an evil and corroding thread.

It ought to be classed with stealing. Our lives were shot through with it. Hell, I saw where my life was shot through with it.

I saw where it threaded back into my life. And as my alcoholism progressed, that fear progressed until by the time I got to you people, it overwhelmed me entirely. The only time that I escaped from it at the end was when I was blacked out or passed out.

We got through with fear. Before I move on, I'll tell you there was a third part of that inventory. And we addressed that also.

And that was sex. And we did exactly what the book said to do. I did the writing and then I had to write further what my conduct was going to be.

Not what you wanted me to be, but what I thought my God wanted me to be. And I asked him for help in living towards that. You know, no standards once sent can set can always be improved on.

If I want to live a program of spiritual action and try and improve, I have to improve. See, anyhow, there was that fear that morning, you know, when I woke up on that first drunk. And there was a third thing wrong, and that was the fact that I didn't know what happened the night before after I started to drink.

You know, if I was talking to one of you, you'd probably have told me that I blacked out. But hell, I didn't think I blacked out. I just didn't remember.

I didn't know that blacking out and not remembering were the same thing. And I know there's a lot of people that are they say they're afraid of blackouts. You know, I was never afraid of them.

Hell, I accepted them. That not remembering I thought went with drinking and I didn't tell nobody about it either. I don't ever remember saying I don't remember last night or I don't remember last week or last month.

I never did tell anybody about them. I just accepted it and fig when you drank you didn't remember and it was okay. Happened to everybody.

And it was a funny thing the way my mind worked as my alcoholism progressed. You see, blackouts didn't happen every time I drank, but they happened more and more frequently as time went on. And as they went on, I did not uh what I would I would think inside of me that I wasn't responsible for what happened if I didn't remember it.

Now, I know I'm responsible. I know today that I am. But there was sort of some kind of mechanism going on in my brain that said, "If you don't remember it, you ain't responsible." I remember one time I'd done some stuff I really I was so afraid of being caught and I said, "Well, if they catch me, I just say I was drinking and I don't remember." As if that was a logical way to get out of it.

And I was only in my my 13th year. And if you'd have told me that I had these symptoms of alcoholism, I'd have said, "You're crazy. How could I be an alcoholic?

I haven't even got my first zit yet for God's sakes." I never knew what an alcoholic was. cuz I was to go through a large part of my life wondering what an alcoholic was. I could spot them.

It was never me. You know, I could look around. I'm pretty good at it today.

I could spot him good. You know, I when I saw Vince, there was not a doubt in my mind. I knew.

I mean, hell, it was obvious. You know, Mike Mike met me at the airport. He didn't have to have a sign.

He was just standing there. That's an alcoholic, you know. And that was sort of the way my life went.

you know, I COULD SPOT THEM, but it was never me. I remember I could be around people and I, you know, I remember one time my wife and I, we were with a guy named Eddie and Eddie was drinking and I was drinking and we're both drunk and then he started throwing up and blood started coming out and I remember looking at my wife said, "Boy, he's in bad shape." She said, "He sure is. He ought to quit drinking." I said, "You're right.

I believe he's alcoholic." See, I can spot him. About 6 months later, she come in the bathroom and I was throwing up blood in the toilet. And she said, "You look awful bad." She said, "I believe you're alcohol." I said, "No, it isn't that at all." Said, "Last night we had cherry stone clams and they've affected me somehow.

No matter what, it wasn't me. I never knew what an alcoholic was till I got here." And you gave me that definition. There's a number of them in the book, but the one that I like best, the one that fit me best and was so simple is the one on page 21 where you say, "What about the real alcoholic?" God, I love that real alcoholic.

That gives us some class. Sort of like being a doctor or judge or lawyer. Well, not lawyer, but you know, professional.

But you say, "What about the real alcoholic? He or she may or may not be a heavy drinker, may or may not be a daily drinker, but at some stage of his drinking career begins to lose control once he starts to drink." That fit me as accurately at 13 as it did at 30 and a half. The only thing that changed was the progression.

What a great definition. But yet, if you'd have pointed out to me, I'm sure I I'd have laughed. I'm sure I said, "There's no way." And I'd have gone on my way.

I was to be locked up a number of times after that, you know, two more times. And the last time was on an indefinite sentence when I went away to upstate New York for some things I had done. And I remember then I was out in an honor grade area where I was able to run and I ran and I went off and joined the Navy.

I got a guy to sign me into the into the US Navy. And I I went to boot camp up here in Great Lakes Naval Training Center. And I remember as I went up there, I wrote my parents a letter and I told them where I was and what I was doing that they were going to be proud of me.

And I was tired of being what I had been. And now things were going to change and I'd be different and I was going to be a loving son and do what loving sons are supposed to do. And I remember they wrote me back and they told me they were proud of me.

They was glad I was in the service and they were going to come up and watch me graduate from boot camp. And they rode a Greyhound bus. They'd fallen on hard times.

They rode a a train in a Greyhound bus up to Chicago and went went up to the boot to Great Lakes Naval Training Center and saw this little ceremony and and it ain't a big deal, but it was a big deal for them because I had never done nothing they could be proud of. And I remember after that they carried me down into downtown Chicago on a 12-hour pass and we went into a restaurant and my dad looked at me and I told you all was drinking. We in this restaurant and and I remember he looked at me and said, "Son, you're not old enough to to drink, but if you're old enough to be in the service, I'll buy you a drink.

what would you like? And you know, I got that warm feeling about me. You know, I said, "God, now my dad and I are going to be drinking buddies and everybody knows, you know, that's great." So I said, "I'll have a beer." And he ordered me a beer.

He ordered himself a cup of coffee with my mother a Coca-Cola. And I looked at him. I said, "What's the matter?

Aren't you drinking?" And my mother looked at me and she had that funny look in her eyes some of these women get, you know, said, "No, your dad doesn't drink anymore. He's a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and he's been sober for three months. I found out later how my daddy sobered up.

My daddy sobered up 1959 at Rosary Hall in Cleveland, Ohio. There was a nun that ran that place then called Sister Ignatia. Now, back then it's different than they have things today.

Back then, I understand that the only way you got in is if your sponsor, your AA sponsor checked you in and they detoxed you and then he they checked you out to his care. When you were in there, nobody saw you except your AA sponsor and the men that he had on a list that were allowed to see you. It was strictly male facility back then.

There were no women in. There was no TVs or radios. They had a big book and 12 and 12 and grape vines.

That was all the that was all the stuff in there to read. You were just there to get dried out. And they they tell me that my dad laid there in straps for 5 days in convulsions in the hallway and that he almost died.

And and when he came out of convulsions, they kept him one more day and they and they let him go. And when they let him go, Sister Ignatia gave him a little br little brass token that had the serenity prayer on it and a step in a tradition. And she gave that to him.

She said, "Jim, if you go with your sponsor to Alcoholics Anonymous and do what those men tell you to do, you'll not have to take another drink again, a day at a time, as long as you live." My daddy went with his sponsor to Alcoholics Anonymous and he did what you told him to do and he didn't drink from then until he died 20 years later and he died sober. But there my dad is three months sober and and you know I I know today how he must have felt three months sober because I know how I felt three months sober. Three months sober, I was whining around the house.

Three months sober, I was sick and I still wanted to drink, but I wasn't drinking. And I'm sure my dad must have still wanted a drink, you know. And I didn't think of that then.

I didn't know anything about it, you know. I didn't know this act of him offering to buy me a drink. What an act of just unselfish trying to be whatever to me was.

I didn't see it that way. You know what I saw it as? I saw the fact that he wasn't drinking as an act of anger from him.

I knew in my heart that the only reason he wasn't drinking is because he didn't like me and didn't want to drink with me. And I thought to myself, how soon can I get away from these people and meet my friends and do some drinking? This is the same guy that wanted to be a loving son.

The same guy that wanted to do what I was supposed to do. You know, when you talked to me about alcoholism, you explained to me that drinking is but a symptom. You said our bottles are but a symptom.

You said selfishness and self-centerness, that we think is the root of our problem. I have no trouble at all accepting that. All I've got to do is look at the record.

Just look at the record. I got away from them. I met my friends and I drank.

And I woke up the next morning the same way I woke up the last time I drank. Same fear, same mess, and same not remembering what happened the night before. I did get a tattoo.

I remember that. I remember every day. It's ugliest damn thing I ever saw in my life.

Popeye. I got I got on State Street, I think, was the name of it here in Chicago. Jesus.

I didn't remember, but I can remember it today. I see it. But anyhow, my career in the Navy don't take a long time to talk about slightly less than 6 months after I went in.

I got thrown out. Now, at the end of boot camp, I went to my first AA meeting. And I don't talk about this much.

I don't know why I came up today, but I didn't go there as a drunk. I went to my A I went home to my parents' home for a two-eek leave or part of a two-e leave. And I my my dad and mom carried me to an open AA meeting one time.

And and looking back at it, I understand now. They introduced me to a guy named Dave who had been in a service and and I had thought they were taking me just like they used to take me to the press club when my dad went to the press club or Rotary or you know the Lions Club, that kind of stuff. That's all it meant to me.

And and maybe looking back maybe he had something else. I don't know. But I mean it didn't mean nothing to me.

Of course it didn't. I didn't have anything wrong with me anyhow. Thought it was wonderful he was going.

Told him keep it up. You needed it. career in the Navy didn't last long.

5 months 29 days after I went in, I woke up. Woke up in a room about a quarter of this size. It was a nut war to the naval hospital in Pensacola, Florida.

At last, I remembered I was on a ship called the Antidum. It's an aircraft carrier. And I'd gone ashore just like I always did.

And I woke up and I woke up the same way I've been waking up. And they call me four board officers and they gave me a paper to sign. They said if I signed it, they'd give me an honorable discharge.

And if I didn't, they were going to court marshall me. Easy decision to make. I signed it.

I asked them what it was. They said that I'd forfeited all rights and benefits. They said that that that I guar furthermore guaranteed that I would never attempt to reinlist in any of the armed forces as long as I lived.

That's been about 37 years ago. I've lived up to my part of the bargain. Ain't tried to go back.

Don't plan on it. But there were some things on that discharge that are necessary to talk about. They told me that I had what they would term to be acute alcoholism.

And they said, "By acute alcoholism, we mean when you drink, you get in trouble." Well, hell, I knew that, but they had it wrong. They said drinking got me in trouble. And it wasn't drinking.

It was you. If you wouldn't pick on me, I'd be all right. If you'd give me a break if you wouldn't talk about me.

There was always somebody bothering me or I'd be all right. It wasn't drinking. Drinking just happened.

I an example, I could be in a bar as big as this room. Nobody in there but me and the bartender and I just be sitting there next to the jukebox drinking. Always like to be near the jukebox.

And I don't know about up here in Chicago, but I have always liked country music. I like a little bit of blues, but a lot of country. It's good thinking music for drinking.

They have songs out that are important. Just a couple years ago, there was a song, I don't know if you heard it up here, Bubba shot the jukebox. NOW THAT'S YOU THINK ABOUT HELL, THAT JUKEBOX NEEDED SHOOTING.

BUBBLE WAS RIGHT. Vince might have not wanted to be his roommate, but hell, he was right. But I'd listen to that music and I'd think and I'd drink.

And as I drank, I'd look over there all of a sudden. And after a couple hours, there'd be two of them sitting over in a corner and they'd be talking about me. Hell, I knew they was.

Their lips were moving. Being absolutely no bigger then than I am now. I'd go over to do something about it and I'd get in trouble.

Now, I was a fighter. I've always been a fighter, but I've never been a winner. I just got beat up a lot, you know?

I MEAN, I'D HIT anybody and then they'd beat the hell out of me. And I'd go back to the ship, sometimes with clothes on, sometimes not. Always bloody.

So, this morning I woke up in a nut ward. And they're telling me drinking's the problem. Okay.

They told me if I quit then I'd be all right. But if I didn't quit it wouldn't be long and I'd be chronic. And they said, "By chronic we mean daily." They're telling that to somebody not quite 18 years old.

I still hadn't had my first date for God's sakes. Well, if I had, I wouldn't tell you about it. You know where I'd been.

You had to think about it a minute. I know. But how could I be alcoholic?

You know, there was something else on that discharge, something I didn't talk about for a while. And uh in the Navy, they don't treat you like you all have treated me. You gave me that big, beautiful room, and God, it's just fantastic.

In the Navy, what you get is a little canvas rack about two foot wide and a little over six foot long. And the newest guy gets the highest rack on a ship. And there I was way up there and I had four guys underneath me that to complain to the division officer every morning about getting peed on the night before.

I'm sorry. I don't know any other way to explain it, but I I didn't want to give you the impression that I was a bed wetter cuz I wasn't. I had problems and there's a vast difference and these problems are embarrassing.

You imagine going through life with this kind of problem, you know? I mean, it's just tough to do. I don't know what I did to that, but something.

But it it's tough going through with that. Hell, I I was sober in Alcoholics Anonymous for just about 3 months and I was whining around the house one day, you know, just sort of whining around and she walked by and I said, "Hey." She turned around and I told her, I said, 'You know, I'm going to AA every single night doing just what they told me to do. I said, and the and the landlord keeps bugging me.

She said, 'Well, sure he does. You ain't paid the rent. We had very little communication.

She took off again. I hollered after. I said, hey.

She turned around. I said, you know, I'm going to AA every single night since March the 8th, doing everything they say to do, doing just what my sponsor tells me. I said, you don't love me.

She didn't even answer me. She just walked off. I went in the kitchen.

I give her my very best shot. I sort of poked her in the shoulder. I said, "Hey, you." I used her last name around.

She turned, went through this whole thing again. Going to doing everything. I said, "In fact, I still go to the bathroom every night." And she said, "Yeah, but you've been getting out of bed every night.

You talk to me about selfishness and self-centerness being the root of my problem. And all I got to do is look at the record. All I'd been thinking about was me, me not working, the landlord bothering me, her not loving me, everything.

Me, me, me. I didn't realize what God was doing to me, through me, or around me. I didn't even realize he dried the bed up for God's sakes.

Now, I don't think he did that for me. I think he did it for her. You see, I hadn't told her.

I I I should tell you the way she found out about that was sort of odd about having to sleep in a wet bed. I we're getting ready to get married and that you know you got to tell them when you're getting ready to get because they're going to find out. I was on an enforced period of sobriety there.

I sat her down one day and and uh I got about half drunk. I always talk better when I'm drinking, but I got that eyeball contact, you know, when you're really going to lie. And I said I explained to her that I loved her and that I'd done a lot of things and that uh there was just something I couldn't tell her about, but I was trying.

And she said, "Well," she talked me into doing what I was going to have to do anyhow. And I told her, I said, "When I was in the Navy, I said I was down in the tropics serving our country. Geography wasn't her strong suit, you know, and Pensacola is close." But I said, "I contracted this rare kidney ailment." And I've been to the Mayo Clinic in John's Hopkins.

Hell, Vince might have treated me. I don't know. and I suffer from occasional periods of incontinence.

Now you just tell me, don't that sound better than saying I went to bed every night? You got to be inventive. But anyhow, she took swimming lessons before we got married and so it worked out.

But anyhow, there I was and there I was in the Navy and they thrown me out and told me I was a lousy sailor and I did, you know, I went back up to my parents house for the very last time. I I got up there, hitchhiked up there, still in a high. I bought me an old Studebaker, got me my first driver's license.

It was my 18th birthday and got the driver's license, an old Studebaker, and went out to celebrate my 18th birthday. And I woke up the next morning the same way I always woke up. Woke up in a mess and woke up with a fear and woke up not knowing what happened the night before.

And I was in jail and they gave me eight traffic violations that night. Hit, skip, and driving drunk and just And I never got single tickets. I always got a handful of them.

I operated. I mean, I moved. Now, they took my license away and I did not get a legal license back until I'd been Sober and Alcoholics Anonymous for over two and a half years.

Now, don't think I quit driving. I just quit having legal licenses. Back in the very early 60s and up till I got sober, you could just keep getting different licenses.

I'd go to Texas and get one or California or Washington. Everywhere I went, I got a license. And when they'd catch me on that one, I'd go get an I when Vince was talking about an ambulance.

Hell, I drove an ambulance on a license one. I was drunk and they arrested me. Now that's embarrassing.

You're out there saving lives and they arrest you. Drunk driving, illegal license. Yeah.

And the fire department that owned ambulance that I worked for, they were upset because it never had oxygen. We used the oxygen. It helped hangovers.

And I didn't want it to be that way. You know, I really didn't. I said, "YOU IF YOU JUST GIVE ME A BREAK, IT'D be all right." And the only reason I took that oxygen wasn't to deprive no one.

It was just so I could work better and I didn't want it to be that way. So my driving career was bad to say the least. And I I didn't get along well that way.

I said, "Well, I'll join the merchant marine." They said, "I'm a lousy sailor. I'll go to sea." So I got my first seaman's papers right after my 18th birthday. And I went off on a ship.

We went to Japan and I went ashore and I took a drink and a captain came and got me three days later. and I got in trouble and Mary they took me back to the ship and they logged me and that's a disciplinary action and and and they fine you a certain amount of pay and and the captain told me I was fired and that didn't mean mean much to me. This is an old ship that I was on what they were then were ships and and and the deal with those ships was that all the guys got off when he got back to the states anyhow.

So I was just going to get off so it didn't make any difference. They said, "Hell, these guys drank and I knew what I just did what they said and made no difference." And and I didn't want it to be that way. But we got back to the United States and you know the stories you hear about seaman and money is true.

We didn't get paid a lot per day, but we got a lot of days built up and they didn't give you the money out there. You got to 10% of the money and the rest of they gave you $100 bills when you paid it off and I pay off that ship with these $100 bills and I'd go down on a skid row, buy me some nice clothes, sit in the bar and I'd be somebody. I knew that I didn't have a problem because I looked better than the people I was around.

I felt better than they didn't. I dressed better. And when I ran out of money, I'd ship out again.

I did math in my head. You know, we had three or 400 ships under Union Agreement and each ship was a separate entity. Each voyage was three or four months.

You do the math. I'd have to live a hundred years to run out of ships. Charlie was saying one day, Charlie, the speaker for tomorrow, heck of a guy from New Or said, Jason, you must have belonged to a strong union.

Hell, I did. And I said, 'I'll never run out of ships. But I did.

I got black ballalled out of that uh out of that profession in 1973 for chronic alcoholism. They called me a performer. But there was a lot that happened from that first ship till I got black ballalled from it.

Things kept getting worse and I said I'd get married. You know, I I know I understand the thinking that I'd heard earlier. Marriage would solve my problems.

I've looked around. Married people are happy. You know that.

You've studied it. If you get married and have kids, your problems just fall away. So, so I got off in 1965.

I was on a ship. I got off a ship uh in Michigan somewhere and I remember going into a bar and I was sitting there shopping for a wife and she walked in. Now, all I ever did was drink and go to sea.

And I was sitting there drinking and she walked in and god did she look mad. It was the first person I've seen smaller than me. Little bitty old redhead.

She sat right down next to me. I looked at her and said, "Can I buy you a drink?" She said, "No, I don't drink." Well, that was true love. Hell, I couldn't afford another drinker.

I bought her a Coca-Cola and I began to talk to her. I smeared them $100 bills all over the bar to impress her and I began to lie and she began to listen. And after a lengthy courtship, I proposed to her.

Now, she isn't with me this weekend, but if you call her up and ask her how long that courtship was, she'll tell you 10 minutes. But I believe she's lying. It was probably 20 minutes.

Know that alcoholics take a long time with important decisions. We don't want to rush into things and maybe make a mistake. I found out why she was mad.

Hell, she was married and her husband had deserted her and he was he was a very abusive guy and he had deserted her and she had a baby just under four years old or a boy just under four years old and a little baby just a couple months old, you know, and I told her that I needed her and I I know she took off and I found her a couple months later down in Florida and I and and I did pursue her and I told her that I needed her and I meant it and I thought I needed her because I felt superior to her. I was taller than her. I thought I was smarter than her.

had more money than her. Had I but known how superior she was to me, I'd have been afraid to ever talk to her. She told me that if I cleaned up my language and I quit drinking, that she would consent to seeing me and after she got divorced, we'd see what had happened.

So, at that stage of my drinking, I don't know about you, but there was a period there when I had some control for for lack of a better word, I'll say control over when I took the first drink. From 13 on, I never knew what had happened. once I started.

But for a period of years, I just didn't drink at certain times. I didn't drink when I wanted to get a license, become an officer in a merchant marine. I didn't drink when I wanted to go on a ship.

If I didn't take the first one, I just didn't drink for a while. Once I drank, I didn't know what had happened. So, I just didn't drink for a while.

And she got divorced on October 14th, 1965. We got married on October 15th. I'd like to tell you the marriage started happily, but it didn't.

The little boy was holding on to my leg. I remember that. Ricky looking up at me.

He said, "Please be my daddy." And he was crying. God, I wanted to be his daddy. I hadn't had a daddy.

I'd always wanted a daddy and I hadn't had one. And I knew that I'd be this little boy's daddy. I was going to give him all the things that that I thought I should have had and be all that I should be.

remember holding Kim in my arms as a little girl and I was going to be her daddy and I could envision softball and brownies and all the stuff you do with little girls running off the boyfriends the whole deal God I was going to be it and his wife I was marrying you know I wasn't just saying words and I don't make light of it you know I laugh about it's marriage was important you know in my family there were very few divorces you know people just stayed married I'm not pitching marriage not I'm just saying that's how was. So that's how it was. How I thought of this.

I thought I was just going to get married and that's how I'd be from then on. We got married and it wasn't much. Got married at the Candlelight Flower Shop on Congress Avenue in West Palm Beach, Florida.

I remember clearly what it was. It was right across from the farmers market where I bought the rings. I'd run out of money and I'd had to shop and I got to bargain on the rings and bargain on the wedding.

Churches wouldn't marry us, you know, because we were the wrong religion and things were wrong and one thing and another. So, we got this just the piece who ran the flower shop said she'd marry us. Her daughter play the organ and my wife would get a curs be $25.

I got her down to about 10 or 15 bucks. They hummed here comes the bride and von got a rose that was dead. We left that re that deal and went over to her aunt's house where they had a reception for us.

Now, all the little toasters and stuff they give you at a reception and we walked in, they give me a glass of punch. God, I hate punch. I've always hated punch.

Only way to drink is there's enough liquor in it where you can get it down. But they put there was nothing in it but punch. No one in her family drank.

None of them. And I got mad. Hell, I've been to a lot of weddings.

I'm a professional wedding goer in a city like Chicago. I've been to some weddings here. Might have been to some of yours.

I don't know. Well, the way I do it, I'd look in the social pages of the neighborhood papers and you see who's getting married. And I always picked out Polish or Italian cuz they were big weddings.

You dress nice and don't throw up on anybody. Don't start a fight. You can drink.

First time you puke or throw a punch, you're out of there. So I went to weddings. Now I'm at mine.

No one's there to celebrate. And I got mad and I grabbed the new wife, the one I'm going to be a good husband to. Father those be a father to those kids.

Grabbed her and left. Got an old Ford we had. went down to Miami for a two-day honeymoon and stopped at a liquor store and I got a bottle and I began to drink and she wouldn't drink with me and you know you got to have someone to celebrate with.

So I picked the guy up on the side of the road. He was just a bum. And he sat there.

I sat here. We passed the bottle back and forth across her. And I woke up the next morning the same way I woke up every time I drank.

Same mess and same fear and same not remembering what happened the night before. And now I had someone laying next to me and she was crying. You know the crying I'm talking about.

Not just whimpering or a tear rolling out of an eye. I'm talking about that sobbing that comes from way down inside. And as you listen to it, you heard as badly as the person doing the crying.

I remember asking her what was wrong. Hell, I knew what was wrong. Then I remember taking that vow, a vow that I was going to take many, many times.

I told her that I was sorry. I told her that I'd never behave like that again. if she would please just give me one more chance, I would never never do that again.

And she believed me and she gave me a chance. And I broke that vow over and over and over again until March the 8th of 1974. And I never meant to break it.

I can't take you day by day through that those years of marriage, but I can only tell you it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare for everyone concerned, for the kids that came into it, from this new wife of mine, for a son that was born in 1968. He's ident he looks he's a spitting image of me and yet I remember nothing at all about his birth.

Nothing at all about the first six years of his life. I just don't remember it. I I can only guess at how we stayed married.

I went to sea for a living. I was to go stay going to sea until the until 1983, 1984. But as I went to sea, I'd write to my wife.

I'd be on a ship and we'd be going to wherever it went, Europe or Asia, wherever we were. I'd write her letters and I'd tell her that I loved her and tell her that I needed her and tell her that I was sorry and beg her to please give me one more chance. Just give me one more chance and things would be different.

And I'd get off that ship and I'd go home and you know, I remember I remember times I'd get off she'd meet the plane and I'd be coming down that deal out of the gate from the air from the plane and she'd see me and the hope in her eyes. It'd be visible. She'd have the kids with her and she'd one look at me and it'd go out like you hit her because I'd be drunk.

By the time it'd get where she couldn't stand it anymore, I'd be gone on another ship. And it kept on going. By 1973, our relationship was pretty well dead.

Was black ballalled out of the merchant marine. I didn't know what I'd do. I tried to stop drinking on my own and they found me wandering around the neighborhood with no clothes on.

She got me back home and got some liquor in me. March the 7th, 1974. found myself knocking on a man's back door 1,200 miles away from where we lived.

And when he answered the door, the first words out of my mouth were, "I think I have a problem drinking." I had never uttered that to anyone. You know, when the doctors told me I was dying, I say they were crazy. When the priests and preachers told me I was going to hell, I knew they were nuts.

When she said she was leaving, yeah, I never admitted to you or to anyone else that there was a problem with drinking. And out of nowhere came that phrase, I think I have a problem drinking. He invited me into his house and took me back to his study.

Sat me down and he gave me a copy of our book, Alcoholics Anonymous. He had me open it up and I did. On the fly leaf, there was some words written in ink.

It said, "If you want what we have, God will help. Love, Dad." My dad had bought that book for me a number of years before, and he just had it set in there. You see, my dad did what you told him to do.

He'd come to you people. I heard about it later from the guys in the groups he went to up in Cleveland. He'd go to you people and he he'd whine about his son like I whine about some of my problems.

But he'd tell you about his son that was killing himself and his son that was throwing a career away and a son that was destroying a family and his son and as he told you that, you say, "Jim, leave him alone. Jim, leave him alone. Let him do what he's got to do.

Let him go where he's got to go." If you say anything, he isn't going to listen to you. He never has and he won't now. What he will do, you might be shutting the very door he'll have to knock on later.

And I am so glad that he did not hear words like intervention. I'm so grateful because if he'd have said something to me, he'd probably have a different speaker tonight. Because when I had absolutely nowhere else to go, I had somewhere to go.

I went to a man's house that I knew didn't drink that used to drink. I knew nothing else about AA. I knew he didn't drink.

And he said, "Let's go to a meeting tonight." And I wouldn't go. I said, "I'm not going. I'm drunk." He said, "That's all right.

I'll take anyone to their first meeting drunk, but I wouldn't go." And then he wrote down some numbers on a piece of paper. And he said, "Put these in your billfold." And tomorrow morning, he said, 'When you wake up, if you wake up, he said, "The reason I say if is you might die, but if you wake up, and if you would rather be sober than be drunk, call one of these numbers before you take take a drink and then meet me tomorrow night and we'll go to a meeting." And I went out that night and I don't know where I went. I just know that I drank because by then that's all I did was drink.

And when I woke up the next morning, there was a drink sitting next to me because there was always a drink next to me. you know, whether I was drinking wine, which is what I was drinking at the end, or what Scott, it made no difference. There was always a drink and it was never a choice.

When I got up in the morning, I drank, or when I came to, whenever my eyes opened, I drank. And I got up that morning and I needed to drink. And I wanted to drink.

But there was something different. As badly as I wanted to drink, I didn't want to drink just a little bit more. You know, in our home group of Alcoholics Anonymous, maybe in yours, we see the slogans on the wall.

And there's a one that has particular importance to me. It says, "But for the grace of God." And I understand today what grace is. Grace, they say, comes from a Latin word that means gift.

And I believe that God's grace to me that morning was his asked for his unasked for gift of a desire not to drink that was stronger than a desire to drink. Many people have gotten on their knees and said, "God, help me at that point." And he has. I didn't.

It was just given to me. Why? I don't know.

And guess maybe because my wife prayed for me or my mom, my dad, sisters or brother, maybe my kids, maybe at a meeting of aa they had a moment of silence for a guy like I don't know. I just know it was there. And I know it was there with a responsibility.

That desire was given to me with the same responsibility that it was given to you. A responsibility that I do everything in my power to keep it or I would lose it. That day I couldn't do much.

I just didn't drink and I needed to drink and wanted to drink. And they carried me to a hospital and they didn't give you the stuff they give now. What they gave me was vitamin B12 in the butt.

And they were to give that to me every day for about two weeks. God, my butt still hurts when I think about it. They said it helped my nerves and I wouldn't have to drink.

I don't know if it did or not, but I didn't drink. And they g and they g told my wife to give me honey and orange juice. They said that helped my nerves, too.

The sugar in the honey. Well, we didn't have any money by that time. They they said that she could give me kro syrup.

Well, she didn't like me anyhow. She got kro syrup. Now, this is March, you know, and now you take Cro syrup, mix it in in some honey out there, and see what it looks like.

It's like chunks of tar for God's sakes. But they said it helped me and I guess it did cuz I didn't have to drink. And they told her to give me hard candy and we always had hard candy around and and I remember every time I open my mouth there was hard candy in it.

I met my dad that night. We went to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous meeting like this with people like you. Remember we walked in the back door and there was a guy standing there and he grabbed mine and as he grabbed my hand my dad said that's Jimmy and he's your sponsor.

My dad took off and I got this yo-yo hanging on to my hand. And I pray that I never forget that moment nor the feel of his hand as long as I live. Cuz his hand was a handshake of alcoholics anonymous.

It was warm and it was firm and it was dry and my hand was cold and wet and scared. And I know what it is because I feel it at AA meetings every week. And Jimmy told me, he said, "My name's Jimmy and I'm glad to meet you." And you know what?

I just knew that he was, and I didn't question it. I didn't say, "Gosh, that's great." I just accepted his handshake. And he began to talk to me.

He talked to me about himself. He didn't talk to me about me. He didn't tell me how I looked, smelled, or anything else.

He talked to me about himself and how he used to drink and and what had happened when he drank and how it got worse and his wife and him broke. And he we shouldn't have got along. This guy and me.

He was a coal miner from West Virginia that worked in a auto factory in Cleveland. We had nothing in common. Not politics, not nothing.

But as he talked to me about his alcoholism, we had everything in common. And then the meeting started and some guy told his story. I don't know what he said.

I'm sure it wasn't a lecture on the steps. It was just his story because I remember laughing. What a healing thing laughter is.

And after the meeting, Jimmy took me around and introduced me to people in that meeting. Uh when Tex got that got up here 50 years sober in 1947 was a sobriety. God, what a long long time.

But they introduced me to guys like Tex that night. There was a guy named Frank Turk. There was a guy named Jack Morell.

I remember Frank though. Frank Frank was tall and he was bald and and he was old. God, he was old.

He had to be in his 50s. And as he shook my hand, he said, "Kid, it's good to see you." And he had this grally voice and he says, "Good to see." He said, "Keep coming." He said, "I want you to meet so and so." He had a new guy with him. Frank had been sober just under 30 years.

You know, I was up in Cleveland uh last year and I was over on on near east side and there was Frank at a meeting. Same bald old Frank, same grally voice, shook my hand, said, "Kid, it's good to see you again." Said, "You're going to be all right." He said, "I want you to meet so and so." And he had this new guy shake my hand. And I asked him, I said, "Frank, you still sponsoring guys?" Ah, he says, "I don't want." He said, "But I can't drive no more.

I need drivers. Yeah. Jimmy introduced me to the winners in Alcoholics Anonymous.

And then Jimmy talked to me more about himself. And then I remember Jimmy saying to me, he asked me, he said, "How do you feel?" And I told him, much like I've told you, I was scared. I was afraid.

He said, "I understand." He said, "I guarantee." He said, "I'm going to tell you something. If you'll do three things on a daily basis, I guarantee you'll never have to come off another drunk as long as you live. will you do them?

I said, "Sure. What are they?" He said, "Number one." He said, "When you get up in the morning, you say, God, help me not drink today. Then number two, if you can go to an AA meeting." He said, "You go back to see.

You won't be able to, but if you can, you go." He said, "Number three, you go to bed at night. You say, "Thank you, God, for a sober day. Will you do it?" I said, "Jimmy, I can go to meetings, but I can't pray.

I don't believe in God. I don't know what he is or he isn't, but I don't believe. I was raised with a God of love.

I was raised, but I've made so many bargains and done so many things in the way. I just knew that I couldn't pray. I didn't know what God was or wasn't.

But it wasn't I couldn't do it. And he said, "Hell, don't believe. Just say it." Well, I'm a liar.

I'll say anything. Now, you laugh, but it's true. The book doesn't say you have to believe.

Our book says if you believe or are even willing to believe, you're on your way. Well, I was willing to do what he said. I didn't have to believe.

And I began to do that. And then he carried me home that night. And I remember we talked a long time and and he said, "I'll pick you up tomorrow.

We're going to a meeting." You know, I don't know where this stuff comes. I tell guys, "I'll pick you up." They come from so and so's place and they'll say, "Well, I have to do such and so." Hell, I never thought I could do that. He said, "I'm picking you up.

I went. I'm afraid he'd throw me out if I didn't." But he picked me up the next day and on the way to the meeting, he said, uh, he said, "Have you had a drink since last night?" I said, "Well, of course not. For Christ's sake, he gave me no time to drink." He called me three or four times that day.

They had spies all over on me. You know, she was with me for Christ's sake. How could I drink?

I said, "No." Real smart. He said, "Well," he said, "I'm going to tell you something, Buster." He said, "If you drink now," he says, "Cuz you want to drink more than you don't want to. Because you've just stayed sober the absolute longest period of time you're ever going to have to stay sober one day." He took away every excuse I'd ever have for drinking because I knew that I shown brand new I could stay sober for a day and that's all I was going to have to stay sober for one day.

I hear stuff in aa 90 and n I don't know what the hell happens on 91. Yeah, I'm not taking pot shots. I'm just saying let me keep it real simple for me.

I don't want to stay sober till the first of the year. I just want to stay sober today. Just today.

There were days, I tell you, in the beginning of my sriber, there were days when I wanted to drink and I'd put it off till tomorrow and they said that was okay. Think about it all you want, just don't do it. Hell, you don't start over for or try to start over if you don't die for thinking about it.

He said, "You just don't drink today." They gave me alternatives. Do instead of drink and we went to meetings and I I remember about two weeks sober, we're coming home from a meeting. I looked over at him.

I said, "Jimmy, I still don't believe in this God stuff." And he talked to me. He said, 'Tonight was the first time you've done anything in Alcoholics Anonymous other than just go. What was it?

And I said, 'I read the traditions.' He said, ' Before you read them, what did you say? I said, 'I'm Jay and I'm an alcoholic.' He said, what is an alcoholic? And I told him what I thought one to be.

And he stopped me after a minute and said, "Hell, I know you were." He said, "I just want to make sure you did." And then he said, "Have you been doing what I told you to do every morning and every night?" And I said, "Yes, I have. I don't believe it, but I've been doing it. I feel like a hypocrite, but I've been doing it." He said, ' That's all right.

He said, 'How how long has it been since you had your last drink?' And I knew how long it was. Now, I'm not sure today, but it was 13 days or 15 days, whatever, but I knew then. And I told him exactly.

And he said, "That's good." He said, "You know, a day at a time, that's great." He said, "Now, when was the last time that you've been this long without taking a drink?" And an awareness came over me that I could only describe you as the power of a god. It wasn't a flash of light or a burning bush. It was just an awareness that there was a power.

And that changed my whole deal. It wasn't a God that I'd learned about. It was a God that I experienced.

It was a power that allowed me not to drink for that fantastically long period of time of 13 or 14 or 15 days a day at the time when I wanted to drink. And based on that, that relationship has grown into something that would take me another 23 years to tell you about been absolutely and it only came as a result of being willing to do that which I didn't believe. Program of Alcoholics Anonymous has just been absolutely phenomenal in my life.

You've heard me tell you, I start off by telling you that I wasn't able to work the steps immediately and I didn't. I did all I was able to do, but at the point in my life where it was either work the steps or get drunk, I was able to take these the kit of spiritual tools and apply to my life. Let me tell you how long it took.

When I left John's house that night with the beginning of an inventory, I was back over the next night to take a fifth step. Went back home for an hour and we did six and seven. The day after that, we worked on step eight and I began making amends.

So for me, it took a year and a half and then about four days. and we use the directions in the book and that made it real simple. I know there's all other kinds of plans out there, but the one in the book spelled it out exactly what I had to do.

And I seem to use that kind of deal today, you know, and I sponsor guys. I give to them what was given to me or try to and I do the very same thing that they're doing and it seems to be the same way. I can't make it no better.

I don't try to. I just keep it simple and it seems to work. And as a result of those that the promises that are in the book have happened in my life.

I've experienced every one of one of them to varying degrees strictly as a result of the steps specifically what's happened I'll tell you about a few of them kids pretty good I we got three Ricky Kim and Jay you know and they rotate as to who loves me and who hates me on a daily basis it seems but but they're not kids anymore you know Ricky's 37 and Kim's 33 and Jay's 29 you know Kim was up at the the house for a few days and and she let let me know something that happened many years ago. She let me know the day uh the day before I came up here. It sort of threw me back a little bit and uh helped me to understand a little bit more about her, but she's she's trying to do what she's supposed to do.

She'd gotten married and she'd have some real tough times and and I had trouble accepting it and uh and I don't now. God in his time allowed me to know what I was supposed to know and do what I'm supposed to do. Ricky, 37 year old.

Hell, he was a He did what he had to do. He was about 35. And then he came to me and 34 he came to me and asked me if I could help him.

And I I was able to do something for him again. And uh and he's been things have changed for him. I don't know why it happened.

God's time, not mine, I guess. Little Jay, 29 years old. Fantastic.

He was up to see us two weeks ago. He kissed me goodbye. He calls about once a week.

Knew I was coming up here. Told me to have a safe trip and that he loved me. The promise is happening in my life.

My wife and I, a relationship beyond description. Some days we get along and some days we don't. But that's real life.

Just about three years ago, I'd been invited out to Reno to talk one of these things. and and uh she and I planned on going together. My wife loves Reno or Las Vegas.

I mean it's it's she just loves slot machines. It wasn't a conference and what's a slot? She says slot machines are like alcoholics.

I said, "What do you mean?" She's an active member of Alanon. She said they're just like alcoholics. What do you mean?

She said, "Well, they pay off just enough to keep you coming." But anyhow, we planned on we were going out there. We're going to have a it was you know just it was just we just really looking forward to it. And a week before we went or shortly just about a week before we went I was working in Myrtle Beach.

She was living in North in North Carolina and we're going to sell our house and all this stuff and and she had a massive heart attack and she's laying in a hospital there and and I got up from Myrtle Beach and I went up there and I'd called out to Reno and canceled the plans and I get up there and I'm with her and a couple days later she's smoothed out a little bit but she's in that cardiac care unit and and uh the doctor came in doctor she has a cardiologist. She says uh well doc will I be out of here by Wednesday? Said my husband and I are going to Reno.

He said, "You're not going anywhere, lady." And I told her, I said, "Von," I said, "We're not going any Reno. I've canceled that. We'll do it next year, another time." She said, "What do you mean you cancelled?" I said, "I canceled.

You're in the hospital." She said, "Are you a doctor?" I said, "What do you mean?" She said, "Hell, you can't do nothing for me." Said, "You got a commitment." Said, "You always talk about fulfilling a commitment." Said, "You can't do nothing for me. The doctor says I'm out of the woods. to go.

So, I didn't stay like I would have if she was there, but I went out and I fulfilled the commitment. It don't make me somebody, it makes her somebody. She reminded me of what I was supposed to do.

See, I'd have played doctor if I hadn't done that. My wife loves Alcoholics Anonymous. Shortly after that, she had to have some bypass for corroed arteries and she suffered a series of strokes.

My wife is young and she isn't able to work anymore and she has some real severe problems and uh we she was getting ready to move to the beach. We'd sold our home up there. It was closing last May 15th and she's going to be living down there with me and I she's able to do some things just going to get better, we figured.

And I went up there to close on a house and the doctors checked and she had a lump in her breasts. She had breast cancer and they did a radical mastctomy last May 15th. I'll tell you that just I guess the reason I'm telling you that to let you know that things are wonderful.

They really are. My wife said she loves you and she's glad that I'm here with you and she doesn't cry and she shows me some things about living and she's still an active member of Alanon. You know, like I said, I can't describe you all you've given to me.

When she got that cancer, my first thought was, why me? Why is this happening? You know, I just got through with all that other why me.

And the realization came to me that hell, I didn't have the cancer. She did. I got on my knees and I did what was talked about earlier today and last night.

I said, "God, you take it. I can't handle it." And God took it. And as I let him, he keeps it.

My dad and my dad died. I told he died on my etha birthday. just before my eth 8 birthday or just after rather and I never knew if I'd really made amends to him or not.

I tried to I I I remember doing the things I was supposed to and I had my sponsor by then was a guy named Bryant and and I lived in North Carolina and I' I'd go to Bryant my dad dying of cancer and he wouldn't let any of us kids near him and and I'd ask Brian I said what can I do and Brian said do what a loving son does and I said well what's that and he said if you're a loving son you'll know my my sponsor made me be responsible for my actions he did not allow me to do something he tell me to do and make him responsible And I did what a loving son was supposed to do. I allowed my daddy to die with dignity the way he wanted to. I got a card from my dad on that birthday.

And I couldn't read the card. It was just scribbles inside of it, but a letter fell out and it was from my mom. My mom explained what it was all about.

She said, "Your dad was trying to write to you for your birthday." And and as he tried to write, he couldn't get it on paper. His hands wouldn't work. She said, so she said, 'Why don't you tell me what to say and I'll write it and you copy it.

And he said, tried that and said that didn't work. She said, so he decid he looked at her then and said, read, I'm a sick man and I know I'm going to die. She said at that point he accepted his coming death and he hadn't accepted it up till then.

She said, but it's important you know what he was trying to say. Said, "Dear son, congratulations on your AA birthday. A glorious and wonderful day." said, "How can we ever be grateful enough to the program of Alcoholics Anonymous and for all that it's given us?

It's given us a loving God has returned a lost son, rediscovered a lost father." I get caught up in selfishness today, different periods and I and I fall back on that and wonder how can I be grateful enough to this deal we have that we call Alcoholics Anonymous for all that has given us. I know some ways to be grateful today. Last April is the last story I'll tell you and I'll sit down.

Last April, I was talking at an intergroup in Orlando, Florida. And when I got sober, I went from Cleveland back to Florida. And Jimmy, my sponsor, handed me off to his sponsor, a guy named Jack Morell, who's dead now.

Jack and Billy Morell. They're dead, but they got sober in 4748. And they they were the first international.

They were active Aers. And they lived in Florida and they sort of fallen away from AA when they got down there. And but anyhow, Jack would talk to me a lot when I first got down there.

And Jack would tell me about Alcoholics Anonymous and tell me the stories in the beginning. And I remember going to a meeting with him one night and and I talked at that meeting or commented that meeting about some stuff a doctor had prescribed for me that day. And I remember Jack telling me to shut up and he took me out at a meeting and he explained to me that that was a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

He said in Alcoholics Anonymous we talk about alcoholism. Now if you've got some problem with some chemicals other than alcohol he said we've taken stuff other than alcohol put near everybody in AA has but a lot of people they took the same stuff so we don't talk about it in AA you talk with me about it and if I don't know I'll find you somebody he said but let's keep a aaa so it's there as other people come along he said I might have grandkids someday that need it I'd like it to be here I didn't like him for saying that but I listened to him and I was in Orlando last year and uh I was talking that Saturday and I remember I was supposed to have a host take me to dinner and they didn't show till late and then we went to dinner and and we're there I told them I said well you missed a good speaker this afternoon it was some guy named uh named whatever I said we talked about his mom and dad and they both had men's names and they said well that ain't the girl says that ain't so funny said my grandma's name was Billy I said Billy said what was your grandpa's name she said Jack what was her last name said Morel. They didn't know me.

They didn't know that her granddaddy had sort of been my sponsor 20ome years before that and had talked to me about preserving the integrity of Alcoholics Anonymous. So I'll ask you also, how can we be grateful enough program of Alcoholics Anonymous for all that it's given us? Tell you how.

Let's just remember that God gave these principles to a couple of guys who with the help of supposedly a hundred others. They set them down on paper, put them in a book, call it Alcoholics Anonymous. They entrusted them with it and they entrust them to others who gave it to you, who gave it to me.

All of us with the same responsibility that we not change it. We not water it down. We not weaken it.

We not dilute it. We leave it just exactly the way it was when it was given to us. Alcoholics Anonymous is a place for a guy to go who ain't got nowhere else to go.

I'll never be able to thank you enough for my God. an alcohol phenomenon. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.

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