Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Want to first thank the committee for inviting me to come talk tonight.

It's always an honor and a privilege to be asked to participate in Alcoholics Anonymous. Ultimately, it's a responsibility to give back what was so freely given to me. Um I just I just love the panel.

Everything that they said tonight was I I I was just Yeah, me too. Yeah, me too. I And the last one made it sound fun again.

Uh, welcome to anybody that's new. You know, if you're new here, if if this is your first convention, if you're trying Alcoholics Anonymous one more time, if you don't want to be here tonight, if you think this is all a big misunderstanding, you know, I mean, I didn't get to AA because I had a bad weekend. you know, I had a couple of bad decades, you know, right?

And for me, like a lot of us, this eventually became a matter of life and death. I I know that in a in a small community like this, I'm sure that you you have, you know, groups where you have your perpetual newcomer, right? I mean, cuz I was that guy.

I I I stood up in Alcoholics Anonymous for 17 years. It was horrible. And we in Southern California, we give chips for like 30, 60, 90 days.

I'm sure you guys do that here. We I I had so many chips and key tags in AA like I could have played poker with him. It was horrible.

I remember one secretary saying, "Give them back." >> You know, and I did that walk of shame over and over and over again. And I, you know, I thank God for the unconditional love of the oldtimes because what I would do as a newcomer is I would I I would go into your head and look back at myself and I would think, "Oh my gosh, what a loser. Why can't you get this?

What's wrong with you?" And I know the old-timers were judging me. You know, if you're new, we're judging. I mean, I'm not that spiritual.

My home group makes bets. I mean, I love it when they say, "Oh, don't judge anybody in AA." You guys ever hear that, >> right? And then what do they tell you 5 minutes later?

Stick with the winners. That's not confusing. I remember sitting in my counselor's office.

I got the DTS and I'm, you know, across this big desk in in treatment. And he looks at me and he says, "Now, now Adam, don't make any major changes in your first year." So I come to AA, I get a sponsor. What's the first thing he tells me?

He got to change everything. >> Right. >> Right.

>> Don't make any major decisions in your first year. >> Anybody seen the third step, right? How about don't get in a relationship in your first year?

>> No one knows if that works. No one's ever done it. I always look for the people that aren't laughing.

Right. There's always a saint in the crowd. Right.

If you got a halo, don't let it choke you. >> I know. But the one I love is God doesn't give us more than we could handle.

You know, if I really believe that statement, if I really believe that God didn't give me more than I could handle, I wouldn't need God's help. >> And the longer I've been sober, the longer I've been separated from alcohol, the more I've come to terms with the fact that I absolutely desperately need God's help. >> I need your help.

>> And if you're new, and I know how hard it is to be new in Alcoholics Anonymous, help is the dirtiest four-letter word in AA. The hardest thing for most of us to do was to admit complete defeat. And I thank God, if you're new, for the unconditional love of the Alzheimer's, who said stuff to me like, "You know what?

Don't even bother taking shifts. Just sit in the back. Shut up." Right?

in a loving way, you know, but they also made it really clear to me, and I hope that if you're new, they made it really clear to me that if and when I was ready, if and when I was ready, that the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous would always be open to a drunk like me. And if you're new, I pray that you hear that because next to my parents, and my parents didn't love me unconditionally. But next to them, Alcoholics Anonymous is the closest thing to unconditional love that a drunk like me will ever experience.

No matter how many lives I destroyed, how many hearts I broke, how many jobs I lost, how many cars I wrecked, how many horrible, humiliating, despicable things that I did as an alcoholic, the doors of AA have always been open to someone like me. So with all that guilt and shame, you know, that I'm walking around with, I eventually started coming to meetings drunk. Now, the interesting thing about AA these days, and we heard it from the panel, if you see a guy drunk in an AA meeting, 2014, people say stuff like, "Oh my gosh, what's he doing here?" Right?

I mean, think about it. With the event of treatment, which is now this kind of multibillion dollar empire that's grown up about AA, you know, that swoops us up in our most desperate moments, throws us into yoga class, right? craft hour.

I'm making like bongs and belt buckles, nature walks, >> you know. But what I do is I'd go to 7-Eleven. I' I'd get myself a big gulp cup, fill it up with liquor, put a little Coca-Cola on top, and then I' I'd cruise into the late night Hollywood AA meeting, you know, do some of my best sharing.

>> I know they didn't think that was funny. You know, and then I started going through treatment centers and there's a section in the big book, the chapter to wise. It talks about four specific types of alcoholics.

And it enumerates them. Type one, type two, type three. And that fourth type of alcoholic in that chapter is the type of alcoholic that's been placed in one institution after another that typically drinks on his way home from the hospital.

And somehow that's what I had become with all the hope and all the promise and all the education and everything that my loving parents had given to me. I became this person that was going through treatment center after treatment center after treatment center. By the time I finally got sober, I'd gone through treatment 28 times.

Not 28 days like the movie. This isn't Hollywood. 28 consecutive times.

And I I wore that like a badge of honor. I thought that's what, you know, made me an alcoholic. And I remember telling my sponsor, you know, I I went through treatment 28 times.

I was hoping that would like get rid of the guy, you know, loser. I'm going to ruin his batting average, right? Go find someone that's willing.

And he looks me right in the eye and he says, "You know, Adam, that that doesn't make you an alcoholic." And I thought, "You're kidding." He says, "Oh, no. It means you paid half a million dollars for a big book. THAT was my inheritance and my college tuition.

And I didn't think that was funny either. And I'm not going to start citing and quoting pages tonight out of the big book. But page 101 of the big book says any scheme that attempts to shield the alcoholic from temptation is doomed to failure.

See, for me, like a lot of us, treatment was a great place to fatten me up for another run. >> But treatment never solved the problem. >> And as an alcoholic, like so many of us, I always thought the problem was alcohol.

I've been hearing that since I was in middle school. Why do you drink so much? Why don't you just stop?

Why are you always hung over in class? I always thought the problem was alcohol. And I remember someone in AA coming up to me and saying, "Adam, if if alcohol is your problem, that drink, that shot glass, that 12-pack, if that's your problem, you're probably not an alcoholic." And then in the very next breath, he says to me, "And if you are in fact an alcoholic, the type that's described in the doctor's opinion, in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, your problem isn't alcohol." And you know what?

It took me another decade to understand what he was trying to tell me. It was like some kind of cruel riddle. I drank over that for years.

But I had got involved with a home group in Alcoholics Anonymous that asked me some very specific questions about my drinking. They took a lot of the statements in the big book and directed them to me. Was I incapable of being honest?

Did I drink because I like the effect? Was I restless, irritable, and discontent by nature? Was my greatest obsession that somehow someday I would control and enjoy my drinking?

And I started to see the truth about alcoholism. I started to see the truth about my relationship to alcohol. And one of those things that I saw was that I was never able to live with alcohol.

Even at at that age of eight, you know, 14, 15 years old, I was already pissing in my pants, drunk in class, passed out under the bleachers. My nickname in 8th grade was space cadet. I couldn't find home room.

You know what I mean? People are picking high schools. I'M ALREADY PICKING REHABS.

EVERYONE could see I couldn't live with alcohol. But alcoholism comes in people. It doesn't come in bottles or six-packs.

And the greater aspect of this spiritual illness or disease centering in my mind is the very simple fact that someone like me, an alcoholic of this type, cannot live without alcohol. If I really look at my history, every time I got released from treatment or a hospital or a jail or an emergency room, what I see in my life is that part of what it means for me to be an alcoholic is that I have a mind that will continue to take me back to alcohol. If I really look at my relationship to booze, what it really means for me in part to be an alcoholic is I have a mind that keeps taking me back to to drinking.

It's almost like my default mode, you know, like on a computer. It's so interesting because we throw this word around program. And a lot of the the language that we use in Alcoholics Anonymous, I I was sponsoring a a computer programmer and he was so quick to point out that one of the definitions of a program, if you look it up in the dictionary, is a sequential set of instructions that brings about a result.

Right? >> Think about it. When you get a corrupt file on a computer, what do you do?

You put in a recovery disc. it restores it to an earlier point in the process. Then he tells me that 10 and 11 are like the viral scan.

Now, I didn't think that was funny nor interesting until I went through the big book with a sponsor and took some very specific deliberate actions that brought about the kind of change that they talk about. In fact, I had confused the fellowship with the program for years. I thought the fellowship and the program were the same things.

It almost alludes to that in our preamble. But what I discovered for me is the fellowship will give me enthusiasm. It'll give me encouragement.

It'll give me inspiration. It'll give me hope. It'll give me fellowship.

It might even give me a girlfriend and a job. But for me as an alcoholic, until I went through the book, I became sicker in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous. I started to become more separate, different, and alone.

And that's something that I really didn't understand for a long time. I'd come to the meetings and I would sit here and I would become more separate, more resentful. And I thank goodness for good sponsorship.

I thank God that someone took me through and showed me what it really was, that broken spirit that brought about that kind of condition. Because part of the problem with me, like it says in the original manuscript, rarely have we seen a person fail that's thoroughly followed our directions. Now, I don't like directions.

I hate being told what to do. Like a lot of us, I I'm the type of person that will argue with anybody about anything at any time. You tell me it's black, I'll tell you it's white.

Right? You tell me it's big, I'll tell you it's small. You tell me to go left, I'll go right with an attitude.

Right? And then I'll blame you for eternity. That's why we say denial is an acronym.

It stands for don't even notice I am lying. Sound familiar? Think about it.

You could tell an alcoholic, but you can't tell them much. Oh, you don't believe it? Try sponsoring somebody.

And what that means for me is you can lead me into the gates of hell, but you can't push me into heaven. And looking back at that condition, now I understand when Wilson talks about attraction rather than promotion, what that really means in my life today is a drunk like me had to get to Alcoholics Anonymous on my own terms. Not because my family wanted me to, not because law enforcement wanted me to, not because family service or any other outside source, but for me as an alcoholic, it was at the time when I burned my life to the ground.

And only then did I become teachable. And what happened to me after all of that is I, you know, I I I get to one more treatment center. I'm 120 pounds.

And thank God we don't look like our stories, by the way. You know, like uh our last uh panelist, they wouldn't let me in this hotel. So, you know, I I I get to this one more treatment center and I'm, you know, I'm dying of alcoholism.

I I I look like I just got out of a concentration camp, you know, and I I I'm dirty and I'm I've let everybody down one more time. And I'm sitting there in this detox, you know, with my fellow associates, you know, in my night gown, right? With my ass hanging out, thinking I got it going on.

You know how we are. We're the only people that can be on the curb and look down at the world, right? I got two speeds.

Grandios and comeomaos. I'm strutting around the detox bragging about Robin Brinks trucks. I do my fourstep.

It was a bread truck. It was empty. >> So this woman from AA comes in on her panel.

We have a thing called H&I. I think it's called Corrections and Treatment here. But H&I stands for hospitals and institutions.

It's a subcommittee of Alcoholics Anonymous that brings meetings into prisons and detoxes and treatment centers and hospitals anywhere where clients, patients, or inmates can't get to meetings. RH and I on the west side of Los Angeles is about 250 300 people and they're fighting to get at these panels. We have 2500 meetings in the greater LA area every week.

And this woman's on her H&I panel. She's doing her AA talk. And at the end of her talk, she looks us all up and down and she says, "If I could give you all the gift of recovery, I wouldn't do it." And I looked at her and I looked at the guy next to me and I said, "What a And then she said something that would later change my life.

She said, "The reason I wouldn't give you the gift of recovery is because I wouldn't rob you of the journey. >> I wouldn't rob you of the journey." >> And you know what? All of these years later, I understand that that journey to recovery, just like that journey to surrender that each and every one of us has had to walk, it's personal.

>> You feel like a black sheep in your family. Welcome to the herd of black sheep. Now we're going to throw stones at each other, right?

I tell people, you don't believe in life after death, look around AA. >> But that walk to pitiful incomprehensible demoralization, nobody could give me that. >> That gift of desperation is such a great acronym for God.

But for me, like a lot of us, I had to get to a place in my life. It was almost like my head couldn't get enough and my body couldn't take anymore. >> Then I was like the walking dead.

Then the disease was killing me every day and it wouldn't bury me. Cuz when my head can't get enough of my body can't take anymore, God means something totally different to someone like me. It means grow or die.

Then I stand at that turning point that they talk about in the big book. where I've got these two choices. Go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of my intolerable situation, or to accept spiritual help.

It's interesting because it alludes to those not being easy choices, right? If you were to stand in front of a supermarket and do a survey, you got jails, institutions, and death. You got happy, joyous, and free.

It would be like a no-brainer, right? You step over to your local supermarket or detox and ask the same question in detox. They're like, "How bad an alcoholic have?

Can I talk to my counselor?" I know there's some really new people here tonight and I don't want to offend anybody, but I'll tell you right now, you know, I would hear people talk about if you want what we have. You know, you may not want what we have, but you know, when you go home to your your dorm tonight, you know, you hit that pillow, do you really want what you guys have? I had to ask myself that question over and over and over again.

And I could write all day long on step one. I could write all day long until I'd beaten down that liquor store door at 5:59 a.m. over and over and over again or done all those despicable, diabolical, disgusting things that many of us do on that journey to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization.

I don't think writing about step one would help me. I had to have an experience with alcohol, you know. And if you're new, think about this.

We're the only people that actually want a reward cuz we ran out of a burning building. You know, I mean, really, you're feeling heroic cuz you gave up your big Friday night to hang out with us. This is the ONLY PLACE ON GOD'S EARTH WHERE THEY'LL actually applaud cuz you came in to save your own life.

sitting around tonight thinking about drinking. If that's what you're thinking, that beats the heck out of being in some sleazy bar right now, thinking about getting sober. >> And you're wondering when the miracle is going to happen.

You're in an AA meeting on a Friday night. The miracles happen. >> I was told that my sobriety is God's gift to me.

what I do with it is my gift to God. And my sponsor was really clear on that point. You know, he told me that if I wasn't willing to reach back in my community and help another drunk, I would probably die.

We talk about this weekend being about Thanksgiving. And what I discovered for me as an alcoholic is gratitude is not a feeling for someone like me. Over the years, I've discovered that for me as an alcoholic, gratitude is an action.

It seems to be the product of humility and responsibility that somehow I get this feeling of gratitude. But it is only through these actions that I get to this place. I um now I don't want to bash the therapeutic community, but going through treatment 28 times, I you know, I started to speak a foreign language.

You know, we speak a foreign language in treatment. You guys know what it is. It's called victim, right?

I don't understand how the drink bone connects to the jailbone. I need a class for that, right? It's kind of like I met her in rehab.

I can't believe she drank. >> Somebody did inventory here, right? I knew he was a crackhead.

I can't believe he stole my car. Met her at the strip club. Can't believe she cheated.

I ALWAYS get one dancer that comes up to me after the meeting and says, "But I don't cheat." What the big book says is how I make decisions based on self that later leave me in a position to be hurt. And what I discovered is until I connect those dots, I will always play victim. And you know what?

Victims don't stay sober. >> The point of inventory for me was about discovery. to discover the things in me that were blocking me.

And I was told that I had to continue with that process, to continue to take personal inventory. And when I was wrong to promptly, it's kind of like if you're going to eat crow, you might as well do it while it's still warm. >> YEAH, >> it's easier.

>> This is called hard one experience. That's why we have longtimer meetings and somehow over the years I've discovered this like a lot of us through pain. I was told that continuing to take inventory is kind of like going to an ATM machine.

Now when you go to the ATM machine what do you do? You put in the card. You put in the code and you take your money.

Right? It's a simple thing. You put in the card.

You put in the code. You take your money. I put in the card.

I put in the code. And after a while I'm like I get it. Why do I need to keep doing this?

And I stop doing it. And my friend says, "Why would you stop doing it? Do you realize what's going on behind the wall?" And I said, "No." He said, "The account's being debited." >> See, the phenomenon of living in 10, 11, and 12 is eventually I become emotionally separated from the events that used to own me.

>> It's almost like normal people are intellect over emotion. They think, they process, and they act. I am exactly the opposite.

I'm emotion over intellect. I act, process, and then think. Oops.

and step. OH, COME ON. WE'RE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT BURN bridges ahead of us.

Oh, if you're laughing, you're relating. Normal people don't laugh at that. And the book says, "Unless I can have an entire psychic change." See, the disease of alcoholism for me is the only prison where the keys inside.

What I discover through this process is wherever there's hysterics, there's historic. Wherever there's an emotional response, I have history. It's kind of like a map.

Remember those things called maps before GPS? >> I know they they there's two things you got to know with a map. You got to know where you're going.

We all know where we're going, right? We have a disease called over thereism, right? But in order for me to use a map, I have to also know where I am.

And until I went through the literature and I started to discover that process through inventory, I couldn't see with I I was unable to see that. And that fifth step was about admission, acknowledgement, acceptance, admission, acknowledgement, acceptance. It was a process by which eventually I got free.

One of the things my sponsor said, he said, "Adam, I want you to buy a black suit." And I said, 'Wh? And he said, 'Well, unfortunately, if you stick around aa, it's going to come in handy. You're going to go to a lot of funerals.

I'm sorry to tell you that. Then he said something really nice. He said, "Oh, and by the way, if you drink again, at least we'll have something nice to bury you in." And you know what?

If you baby the alcoholic, you'll bury him. I needed to hear the truth about alcoholism. That it's fatal.

It's progressive. It's chronic. It's like being on a train and the train goes to one place.

It goes to jails, institutions, and death. That's the only place it goes. If you're new, being here tonight, I feel safe and protected.

But my experience with powerless isn't that I can't drink. It has been consistently my experience that what powerless means in my life is that eventually I will drink again. Unless I become willing to take actions here that right now, like for a lot of us, I didn't believe in that I could have a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

I had to find out what that meant. That nothing would ensure immunity from drinking more than intensive work with others. One of the panelists tonight was talking about, you know, why the grass is greener over there?

It's cuz they're watering it. Part of the word spiritual is ritual. >> And what I didn't understand for a long time is these seemingly unrelated actions that we take in Alcoholics Anonymous over a period of time would bring about an entire psychic change.

So much so that I would look back at my life and I would think, how did you ever live like that? And I hope that if you're new, you get to experience that. It was something that the book talks about you must not miss.

But it was completely foreign to me. The reason I couldn't get sober for 17 years when I really look back at it is because I wasn't willing to give anything. >> And I was told, you know what, in the real world out there, there's two kinds of people.

There's givers and there's takers. 90% of the world takers, 10% givers. Now you come to AA, right?

This altruistic movement. You think it's any different? Same ratio.

90% takers, 10% givers. You don't believe it? Wait till they ask for cleanup tonight.

But what I was told is that the givers are the ones that are having all the fun. In the picture, the big picture, in the long hall, it was the givers that ended up staying here. And I'm going to talk a little bit later about how that happened for me because I had come here looking to get something and it never worked.

It never worked. And I'm so lucky that I got around a group that was based in action that immediately started to give me little seemingly unrelated jobs like be a greeter, >> make coffee, maintain commitments. And those seemingly unrelated commitments over a period of time were the catalyst that brought about enough change and enough distraction for me to do the work in the big book.

See, fear won't keep me sober. I'm the type of alcoholic, you know, getting a third strike, living on the street, being homeless, losing my career, throwing away my big education. Did scared straight work for you guys?

That went right over my head. Now, the big book talks about the problem drinker, right? And illustrates the problem drinker, you know, as someone that can stop or moderate given sufficient reason, right?

Big difference between a problem drinker and a real alcoholic. Think about it. You got a real alcoholic and a problem drinker in a jail cell for like drunk driving.

You got two completely different philosophies going on. You got the problem drinker over here on one side of the cell thinking, "Gosh, why did I drink so much last night? I I knew I shouldn't have drank so much.

Why didn't I take a taxi? Real alcoholics on the other side of the cell thinking, "Why'd I take Front Street?" Now, we have people with court cards and they never think that joke is funny. That's not funny at all.

>> Right. You should have stayed home. You could have been cleaning your pipe tonight.

Problem drinker's wife says, "Honey, if you don't stop drinking, I'm leaving you." Problem drinker cleans up his act, doesn't drink in the house, gets a little visine. Now, if my woman says, "Honey, if you don't stop drinking, I'm leaving you." You know what I'm thinking, right? I'm thinking about single wife.

I mean, you want to see drama, get between an alcoholic and a drink. If anything got in the way of booze, it was out of my life. I mean, alcohol was the love of my life.

It It completed me. It had me from hello, right? I mean, if anything got in the way of booze, it was out of my life.

You think I'm going to let go of the love of my life without a fight? I can't even let go of a bad relationship. And if you're new, my relationship today with Alcoholics Anonymous is identical.

If anything gets in the way of aa for me, for this type of alcoholic, it's out of my life. >> A relationship, a woman, I don't care how beautiful she is, how much she loves me, how great she makes me look. I remember the first time I said that from a podium.

There she was in the back of the room. She's like, "Honey, honey, you don't look like an alcoholic. Oh my gosh, why do you got to go to all those meetings?

Oh, you're not speaking again, are you? It's the weekend, sweetie. Then she tells me, you know that AA thing, it's getting in the way of our relationship.

>> So, it was around this time of year. It was Thanksgiving, right? And I've been dating her a while.

It was the big night. It was meet the parents night, right? So, she wants me to come to her parents house for Thanksgiving.

So, I'm I'm at her parents all dressed up, suit and tie, head of the table. Out comes the exotic wine. She's like, "Honey, honey, you can have one glass of wine." Oh, come on.

It's just a glass of wine, sweetheart. It's Thanksgiving. It's the big night.

>> It's natural wine. Four more rehabs. Oh, yeah.

I stole her purse that night. WENT down to the hood and bought an outside issue. >> I know.

Educated detox with a get well card. Now, I don't want to offend anybody. I know I will.

I think I got four cards from that one. >> I tried to send her to Codependence Anonymous. She wouldn't go.

You know why? She didn't have anyone to go with. >> Now, I love Alanon.

I could always tell the Alanons in the room. They don't think this is funny at all. They can't stand to see us have a good time.

EVEN HERE before I completely bury myself. I come from a long line of alcoholics. I have suicide, mental illness, and alcoholism all over my family.

My mom's brother committed suicide drunk. My father's brother committed suicide drunk. And when I got sober, the first thing they said to me is, "What are you better than us now?" And what I've discovered is it is critical that I understand some of these concepts in Alanon.

I didn't cause it. I can't control it. I can't cure it.

Mind my own business. Have some business to mind that live by example. It's almost like the genetics loads the gun.

The dysfunction pulls the trigger. And if I don't understand that dysfunction, I will come back into that family and it'll eat me alive. It's almost like as long as the ties that bind us together, you're looking at it are stronger than those that would tear us apart, all will be well.

I understand that in every way today. You know, we say in Alanon, you know the alenons it takes to screw in a light bulb. >> None.

The Alenons attaches and lets it screw itself. >> I know. I should be redeemed for that, right?

I hope you didn't bring your significant other. SEE, NOW SHE'S GOING TO see right through you. I have sponsies that pay more in taxes than I earn all year.

They have these huge careers and these little tiny programs. You know what? I've never seen one of them stand the test of time here.

What do I do for a living? I stay sober. Oh, what do I do for money?

That's over there. I get those two things mixed up, I'm back in handcuffs. >> I get those two things mixed up, I'm back in an emergency room.

OR I GET A double header, I'm handcuffed to a gurnie in an emergency room. That is consistently been my experience. If you're new, puke smells the same in a Mercedes.

It's a BMW here I heard. But I can't solve that spiritual problem from the outside. Now I do a lot of H&I.

I should write I'm an alumni from everywhere. One of the most significant events in my life, we we have these panels like I was saying with H&I. We have a veterans administration there in Los Angeles.

It's huge. and they they have these, you know, alcoholic veterans and, you know, you get into a room this size full of soldiers and they ask us to pick a topic. So, me being a smartass, I I pick surrender.

Room gets dead quiet, right? Especially Marines. But, you know, IF YOU EVER WATCH A soldier surrender, like on CNN, the And if you're new, you might want to relate this to alcohol.

You ever watch a soldier surrender? The illustration's perfect. You'll see the soldier take the rifle very slowly lay it on the ground, sit on the side of the road, wait for someone to tell him what to do.

Think about it. When you got 40 AK-47s pointed at your head, YOU DON'T THROW DOWN THE gun with an attitude. >> If you feel like that, we understand.

>> You're not sitting on the side of the road looking back at the gun, cuz if you do, someone's going to shoot you. If you're new, I have to ask myself, am I looking back at alcohol? >> Because for me, it's like I'm in the high school gym 20 years later.

The band's gone, the girls are gone, the lights are out, and I'm sitting in this empty, cold, dark room all by myself saying, "Where's the party?" >> There's no disco ball where I was drinking. But that's the euphoric recall, the peculiar mental twist, the lurking reservation that Wilson talks about. If you're new, it's almost like life has its moments.

And for those moments, a drunk like me will give my life to recapture and recreate the magic that I once found in booze. And that sensation is so elusive >> that I will give my life, make the ultimate sacrifice. And what I've discovered is that unless I can find that sense of comfort and ease that I'm seeking from alcohol through the 12 steps and through the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, which is equally as important, the fellowship, as much as I may have disrespected the fellowship, it is equally as important.

I have found so much love and kindness. That is what I remember beyond all of it was someone welcome me. If I can't find that through this process, I don't think a drunk like me will ever stay here.

You take booze away from someone like me, you got to give me something better. >> And somehow through being painstaking and doing a little bit of work around here, I found that. I guess I was lucky enough to find that.

I don't know if it's luck. I certainly don't think it's virtue. I don't think that God loves that bum in front of the liquor store tonight any more or less than he loves me.

I think that this thing we call grace is kind of like an umbrella. And I found it. I found the umbrella and I became willing to stand under that umbrella.

It's just that simple. You know, self-nowledge won't fix me. I've had every relapse prevention class known to man, you know, and I can't make it past the liquor store.

You know, and I'm back in in relapse prevention class learning about my triggers. I'm like, "Counselor, counselor, waking up's a trigger for me. I'm awake." Like, "Sir, will you please go back to your dorm and button up your night gown?" And I'm back on Skid Row in downtown Los Angeles, drunk with a bottle, reciting chapter 5 out of the big book.

And the thumb next to me is like, "Will you shut up, man? You're ruining my high." And I'm crying cuz I can't get back here. Remember what that feels like to have a head full of Alcoholics Anonymous and a belly full of booze >> and be separate, different, alone one more time out there.

And if you think that's painful, you know what could actually be worse than that? Being a real alcoholic. Being in this room tonight and not working the 12 steps.

It could almost be more painful. Coming to meetings late, leaving early, not having a sponsor, not working the steps, not being committed, not having a friend like Dave was talking about. I had to learn to make friends here.

And most of the friends I made were by reaching back in my community and helping a newcomer. Those became my friendships. love and service.

I know what it's like to sit in a room like this on a Friday night and make a decision to drink. I'm puking my guts out before I get to the liquor store. You think at that point I'm going to call my sponsor?

All of my life I've been one decision away from a drink. And today, because of Alcoholics Anonymous, because of people like you and rooms like this, and this mystery we call God, there's a whole world between me and that decision. It's like being on a merrygoround.

If I stand on the edge of that merrygoround, I can just let go and no one would even notice. And I've been taught to stay in the middle of that merrygoround. >> It's like the herd mentality, but you know what?

It has so worked for me. You know, as an alcoholic, there was a big difference between the act of surrender that got me into AA as a newcomer over and over and over again and the state of surrender that's keeping the old-timers here. And you heard a little bit about that tonight.

Huge difference between the act of surrender and the state of surrender. It's kind of like watching a swan glide across a pond of still water. It's so beautiful, so effortless, it's so graceful.

But you know what that little swan's doing under the water? He's paddling like hell. And if you're new, we have a chapter in the big book into action.

There's no chapter into feelings. I know the therapists hate it when I say that. Into thinking, right?

We ought to have a chapter into whining from the podium at the noon meeting. LIKE GET A JOB, MAN. And what happened for me like a lot of us is I became willing to take actions in Alcoholics Anonymous that I didn't believe in.

That triangle recovery, unity, and service in that circle has computed and translated into three specific actions for me. Contribute, belong, and learn. Contributing is service.

It makes me feel needed. Belonging is unity. It makes me feel wanted.

And to learn is to uncover, discover, and discard the things that are blocking me. And by taking those actions consistently, I feel wanted, needed, and loved. It's almost like part of the word spiritual being ritual.

I took these actions consistently over a period of time, and it slowly changed my perception. There's another community that talks about wisdom, power, and love. The steps gave me wisdom.

The fellowship has given me power. And by reaching back in my community through service, somehow by loving others unconditionally, for the first time in my life, I felt lovable. It wasn't the other way around.

I remember telling my sponsor, I had a degree when I came to AA. You know what he said to me? He said, "Adam, thermometers have degrees." You know where they stick those?

See, the knowledge is necessary for me to win the confidence of a newcomer. Where no one else can, where the clergy couldn't do it, where the therapist couldn't do it, where the drug and alcohol counselor couldn't do it, where the parole officer couldn't do it. Another alcoholic was able to win my confidence cuz he lived like me.

He felt like I did. not just in untreated alcoholism, but in selfishness, in dishonesty, in resentment, and in fear. When he shared that with me, I started to see the truth about what it really meant to be an alcoholic.

And you notice at the end of these meetings, we say, "Keep coming back. It works if you work it." We don't say, "Keep coming back. It works if you know it." Right?

It was only through practice and application. And I know this isn't true for everybody, but this has been true for me and a lot of the people I've worked with. Unless I understand what the problem is, the solution is not going to work.

And part of the problem for me as an alcoholic is when I stop drinking, the outsides get better, but the insides get worse. That is not true for everybody in AA. And the doctor's opinion is very clear on that.

But for me, the longest bridge that I will ever cross, the longest journey that I will ever walk as an alcoholic is that little tiny hyphen between the first and second half of step one. What it's telling me is I've got a body that can't process alcohol. But more importantly, I have a mind that can't process reality.

Those are two completely independent thoughts. And for years, I thought because I drink, therefore my life's unmanageable. That's just a halftruth for me.

That's like looking at the tip of an iceberg and seeing the ruined marriage, the broken home, the financial destitution, the poor health, and thinking that that's a problem. In fact, that's what treatment told me. Treatment's telling me the trigger's on the outside.

And you know what Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 steps eventually showed me? That for a drunk like me, the trigger's on the inside. >> You ever notice when an alcoholic's not having a good day?

You know when I'm not having a good day? When I'm not getting my way. Oh, come on.

We're all like 5-year-old kids here >> with old people's faces. Oh, you don't believe it? Cross one of us.

I'll resent you for decades. And your grandkid. The problem with resentment is in Latin it means to refill.

It means I've taken an event from my past. I've attached emotion to it. And then I reveal it.

I relive it. I reenact it in every area of my life. My life is like Groundhog Day.

Resentment is like an acid. It only eats the container it's in. And unless I can be rid of it, I always live in spiritual pain.

And like the tip of the iceberg, eventually I started to see what was underneath it. Then I start to understand for me what the greater problem is. And the greater problem for me as an alcoholic is my need to play God.

My need to be right. My need to sort, compare, judge, and label. It is my severe emotional overreaction to five things.

Abandonment, rejection, betrayal, disrespect, and authority. And the big book says, "I am driven by a hundred forms of fear. fear of abandonment, fear of betrayal, fear of rejection, fear of disrespect, fear of authority.

All of those things came out of that third and fourth column for me. And as I take that imagery, I start to discover it. And they're all the same.

See, fear is my faulty relationship with God based on self-reliance. This idea that now I'm not drinking. I don't need any more help.

And that will continually take me back >> to drinking. It's almost like what alcoholism becomes for me is trying to solve a spiritual problem with a physical solution. It's just like guilt comes from the outside.

Shame comes from the inside. Guilt is that I made a mistake. Shame is that I am a mistake.

And how can I solve this from the outside? It's an inside job. You guys remember Gilligans Island?

This is a perfect place for that, right? Did you ever notice that Gilligan's Island was the seven deadly sins? Think about it.

The captain was gluttony. Gilligan was sloth. Maryanne was envy.

Ginger was lust. Mr. How was greed.

The professor was pride. I would have killed everyone on the island but Ginger, right? Probably would have kept Maryanne around for a little drama.

If you're too young, go to Hulu. But what I eventually see in my life is that I put down the drink and what do I do? I pick up the fork.

Right? Next thing you know, I'm naked in front of the mirror in steps six and seven saying, "God, I can't live like this." And with all that shame, I put down the fork and pick up the credit card. Now I'm going to fix what I did with the fork, right?

I'm buying clothes. I'm in lipo suction. Then then I'm on my knees in bankruptcy court >> saying, "God, I can't live like this anymore." Then I start acting out in the rooms.

Can't go to that meeting again. You ever notice how there's like 200 12step programs that are all identical except for the first half of step one. And what the big book tells me is that when I straighten out spiritually, only then do I straighten out mentally and physically.

And it was so easy for me to play musical poisons in the first half of step one and never really see what the problem is. And I get to that same place again where I get a couple of choices. Go on to the bitter end, get drunk, or accept spiritual help.

And I get to another surrender like again our panel was talking about tonight. I got to a place where I got to that second surrender. Then I started to discover what the real problem is.

I love it when they say just play the tape through. You ever hear that? >> Oh, yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. Just play the tape through. I'm like driving down the freeway in my brand new car and I I play the tape through to Skid Row, you know, to the cardboard box.

You know, my head tells me, "Oh, Skid Row wasn't that bad." Toothless Honey cardboard box. I can make it on Skid Row. I know.

I'm low bottom. I I know that's insanity, right? I always thought insanity was doing the same thing and expecting different results.

That's what I heard in AA. That's not the insanity I live with. I have a completely different kind of insanity.

It's doing the same thing knowing exactly what's going to happen to what? Doing it anyway. Oh, come on.

At least the other kind of insanity. Doing the same thing and expecting different results. At least there's some hope there.

I KNOW I'M GOING BACK TO JAIL. JUST HOPEFULLY NOT TODAY. I MEAN, IT'S ALMOST LIKE HAVING SEX with a gorilla.

I know it's a little graphic, but you know, IF YOU HAVE SEX WITH a gorilla, honey, it's not over till a gorilla says it's over, RIGHT? You get that gorilla back in the cage, he starts looking at you again with those loving eyes. Come on, baby.

I won't hurt you this time. Remember how it used to be? Just me and you.

No one's going to know we're in Mexico. That is the delusion that I live with on a daily basis when they talk about people that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with myself. My sponsor says, "Don't look around." I will step around this podium and believe that lie in a heartbeat.

You know, my sponsor says, "You got a big mouth and a good memory. You're not fooling anybody. >> But by taking actions consistently over a period of time, my perception begins to change.

People ask me, "Why do you keep going to meetings?" I'm like, "Why do you keep going to the gas station? The shower I took yesterday won't keep me clean today. It means I cannot stay sober on yesterday's program." When Wilson talks about resting on my laurels, the implication is I cannot stay sober on past accomplishments.

And I didn't understand that. It's like unplugging a refrigerator. It doesn't matter if it's 20 months old or 20 years old.

It's like a relationship. You stray, you pay, right? >> And that is exactly what my relationship with Alcoholics Anonymous over a period of time has become.

that by living in the center of that triangle, I am able to maintain a spiritual fitness >> to stay in a state of grace that a grateful alcoholic won't drink. >> And part of the way that I've been able to do it, and I'm very fortunate, I know that you're able to do that here, is by working with new people. Part of the reason we go to meetings is because that's where they keep the new people, >> right?

>> Hey, if I'm having a bad day, I need a meeting. If I'm having a great day, a meeting needs me. >> That means I have no reason not to stay plugged in to Alcoholics Anonymous.

>> You know, we read chapter 5 in probably every meeting in the Western Hemisphere. And at the end of chapter 5, you ever notice we say our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas, right? A that I'm an alcoholic and I can't manage my own life.

B that probably no human power can relieve my alcoholism and C that God could and would a sought and I'm thinking before and after what but for me as an alcoholic it's before and after I stop drinking if alcohol is the problem the solution is not drinking and what I discover for me is even after I stop drinking I'm still an alcoholic I still have trouble managing my own life I still come to a place where at the end of the day no human power will relieve my alcoholism, the spiritual maladjustment. And then I start to look at what the real solution is. And that's where everything changed for me.

See, a lot of people that I drank with that suffered from the phenomenon of craving just like me, as soon as they put the drink down, it was remarkable. All of a sudden, everything worked for them. They fit in.

They're part of the career welcomes them back. They come to meetings once a year, never work a step, and their life gets consistently better. They've been serene since their ass hit the seat in aa.

That's not my experience. My experience, every time I put the drink down, the first thing they say is, "Oh my gosh, you need to be on medication. Why are you so angry?

Why are you so emotional? What's wrong with you? WHY CAN'T YOU SIT STILL BACK THERE?" And I'm crying at dog food commercials.

See, when I'm not drinking, I have a whole another set of problems. They're outlined on page 52 of the big book. When I'm not drinking, I'm afraid to misery and depression.

When I'm not drinking, I can't control my emotional nature. When I'm not drinking, I can't manage my personal relationship. Sound familiar?

When I'm not drinking, I'm full of fear. When I'm not drinking, I'm of no use to other people. When I'm not drinking, I'm basically unhappy.

And the way that plays out for me in untreated alcoholism is I don't fit in. I'm not part of. You don't understand me.

Everybody's in my way. Life's not fair. They're not treating me right.

I'm not getting paid enough for goodness sake. She's cheating on me. I got to drink.

And something magic happens. As soon as I pick up a cocktail, I intuitively know how to handle situations that used to baffle me. Right.

Couple more drinks. Fear of people and economic insecurity leave me. I'm buying A WHOLE BUNCH OF DRINKS.

HELL, I'LL WRITE YOU A CHECK. Not only are you getting better looking, honey, I'm getting better looking, >> right? Give me a couple of Vicin.

I could comprehend the word serenity and I know peace. Little cocaine. I want to start a business with you.

Now, if you think that's funny, there's something really wrong with you guys. That doesn't occur in a normal or temperate drinker. Think about it.

Alcohol is classified by the AMA as a depressant. Nine out of 10 people, they have a couple drinks and they say stuff like, "Whoa, I got to slow down. I'm feeling it.

I have a couple drinks and honey, I WANT TO GET MARRIED. I WANT to go to Vegas tonight. I'M TRYING TO find the car keys I hid for myself for the first drink." See, for me, alcohol is a stimulant, >> and that's what makes me bodily and mentally different from my fellows.

It's not how often I drink, it's not how much I drink, but that effect produced in me is so elusive that I cannot differentiate the true from the false. It does so much for me that I don't care what it's doing to me. And that's what sets me in a category all by myself.

That's what the Earth people don't understand about us or the Alanons. You can't figure out why we drink. We can't figure OUT WHY YOU DON'T.

WELL, NOW YOU KNOW. AND AGAIN, unless I can find that sense of comfort and ease that I'm seeking from alcohol through this process, I won't stay here or I'll live feeling like an an inadequate half a person. And what I found, like so many of us that I've worked with, if I continually take these actions in Alcoholics Anonymous over a period of time, what happens is it gets better.

All that eventually goes away, but I don't give it a chance. It reminds me of these two old-timers and a newcomer and they're out on a rowboat doing a little fishing and they they pull off from the shore and one of the old-timers realizes that he forgot his tackle box. So he carefully steps off the boat and he gets his tackle box and he brings it back and sits it in the boat.

Few minutes later, one of the the other old-timer realizes he left his cigarette. So he carefully steps out of the boat and gets his cigarettes and sits back in the boat. And the newcomer's watching this very curiously.

So, the newcomer decides he's going to go to the bathroom, and he steps out of the boat and drowns. And the two old-timers look at each other, and they just kind of laugh, and they go, "It's too bad he didn't stick around long enough SO WE COULD SHOW HIM WHERE THE ROCKS WERE." Not having a sponsor in Alcoholics Anonymous is like walking through an uncharted minefield without a guide. >> If you're new, the dirtiest four-letter word is help.

Please ask us. There's so many wonderful people. Like Bobby has been so kind.

We've been talking on the phone. There's so much love. I I've talked to like five or six people here that have been around for 20 years.

Besides the panel members there there is a central core of people here. If you're new, please get involved with this thing. I mean, just like a diabetic needs insulin, a cancer patient needs chemo, people like me need Alcoholics Anonymous.

And I thank goodness for the 12 traditions. The steps stop me from committing suicide. If you haven't noticed, the traditions stop us from committing homicide.

Right? You don't believe it? Get involved in a committee.

For years, I wanted to change everything about AA. And you know what? The longer I've been sober, the more I want to keep Alcoholics Anonymous exactly the way it is, >> because this ensures our survival.

people like us that for probably a thousand years before this ended up in institutions or dead or in asylums. You know, I watched my whole family perish behind resentment and behind alcoholism and behind dysfunction. And I just I I I could never ever ever pay Alcoholics Anonymous back for what this thing's given me.

By the way, we have a chapter in in in the book, We Agnostics. If you're new, there's no chapter we believers, you know, and I had believed like someone talked about earlier tonight, I had believed in a punishing God. I believed in in in a condemning God.

And I remember hearing Chuck see it and he said the real problem isn't alcohol. He said the real problem is a conscious separation from God. And then he talks about the solution in the 11st step, conscious contact with God.

And for me, the bridge from 2 to 11 was steps four through nine. Maybe what they should say in AA is rarely have we seen a person fail that's done steps four through nine. Rarely have we ever seen anybody do four through nine.

I do the AA walts. One, two, three, drink. One, two, three, drink.

I mean, I didn't want to pray. I didn't want God to find out where I was. See, that's the conscious separation.

See, Bill Wilson talks about me being the actor, trying to be the director, right? I'm trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scener, and all the players. If everyone would do as I wish, life would be wonderful.

>> Now, that makes a lot of sense. But what I didn't understand until it was pointed out to me is that in that play, I had given God a role in my play. Subconsciously when this power didn't meet my finite human expectations, I slowly became separate from that power.

It talks about the idea of God being within every one of us. And it's obscured by pomp, calamity, and worship. I was asked to really take that apart and figure out what that was.

And what I discovered is when he says, "He's the principal, I'm the agent, he's the father, I'm the child, he's the director, I'm the actor." All I had to understand was that God would steer but God won't row. And for me, that simple idea was something that made sense to me. It's like when they asked Michelangelo, "How did you make the statue of David?" Michelangelo said, "I never made the statue of David." I just chipped away everything that wasn't David and there he was.

So what happened to me is when I went through and asked these very specific questions, I started to see the truth about my delusion. The lies I tell myself, even as it relates to this power, you get in a closet and pray for a hot dog, guess what? You'll die.

And I don't mean that in a in in a derogatory way, but what I had to discover is an idea that made sense. And what it was initially for me was a group of trunks. I heard it said tonight.

It was good orderly direction. And for me, like a lot of us, after taking actions, I came to believe. I came to trust.

And eventually the evolution of my relationship with this power was I came to rely on it. Just like a friend, my sponsor says, you know, if you say if you have a relationship with somebody and you say hi to them in the morning and good night and that's all you do, you have no relationship. And I started to act as if I started to pretend like Einstein said, "I would rather live my life pretending there's a God and finding out there isn't than live this life pretending there's no God and finding out there is." That was enough of a secondstep consideration for me to start to see how this really works.

My sponsor said, "Adam, what do you want from AA? You keep recycling through the rooms." And I said, "You know, I I grew up in Malibu. I want a yacht and a Lar Jet." And you know what he said to me?

He said, "If you work steps 4 through 9 and you consistently live in 10, 11, and 12, what you'll get, cuz I'm really a taker. I'm here to get something." He says, "What you'll get is a quiet mind and a loving heart." And I thought, "What do I want that for?" But if you're new, when Wilson talks about the grouch and the brainstorm, I had to ask myself, what's the opposite of a quiet mind? You guys know it's a mind that won't shut up, right?

It's up at 3 in the morning telling me I'M A LOSER. WHY BOTHER getting a job? They're going to do the background check.

It's up 5 minutes before me every day saying, you know, AA is not going to work for you. And the opposite of a loving heart is a vindictive heart. It's a prejudice heart.

All of my life I've been crucified between two thieves, yesterday and tomorrow. In yesterday, I have guilt, shame, and remorse. And tomorrow, I have fear, anxiety, and worry.

And by continuing to take inventory, like going to that ATM machine, that peculiar analogy, what happens over a period of time is I become emotionally separated from those events. It's almost like our our spirits are like a body of water. When they're perfectly still, they best reflect the heavens.

And what I discovered is that Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 steps and that triangle is almost like a discipline. That if I continue to stay engaged in these actions over a period of time, my perception began to change. Just that simple.

If someone did to me what I did to myself, I hate to say it, but you know what? I would have killed them. >> If someone did to me what I did to others, I would have killed them.

And then I come to AA and you want me to pray to God? Like I said, I thought God had been watching. I had become bankrupt in those three simple relationships.

If you're new in Alcoholics Anonymous, when I looked at the steps again over a period of time, for me, the steps really remedied those three relationships. Steps one through three recreated and developed a relationship with God. Steps four through seven recreated and developed a relationship with self.

Steps eight and nine recreated and developed a relationship with others. 10 maintains my relationship with self. 11 maintains my relationship with God.

And 12 through service maintains, develops, and grows my relationship with others. So coming out of the steps, a drunk like me is able to live in harmony in those basic simple relationships. There was a great spiritual teacher.

He was asked, "What's the most important thing of all your teachings?" What did he say? Love God with all thy heart. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

>> And you know what? If God scares you out of these rooms and you're a real alcoholic, don't worry about it. Foods will scare you back in.

>> So, in one through three, I give it up. Steps four through seven, I clean it up. 8 and nine, I make it up.

10, 11, and 12, I keep it up. And as a result of that simple process, someone like me, as spiritually damaged as I was able to live in harmony in those simple basic relationships. There's some 11step promises talking about recoiling as if from a hot flame.

It talks about for us the problem has been removed. Those are even loftier promises than the ninestep promises. And it says they happen automatically.

only because I became willing to take actions here that I didn't believe in. Very simple fundamental idea. So, one of the things that happened to me when I walked out of that 28th treatment center is the guy that was running the detox said, "Adam, why don't you come back to detox next week and tell everybody in treatment how you stayed sober a whole week if you can make it." So for the next almost eight years, I sat in three hours of bumper-to-bumper traffic from one side of LA County to the West Valley to tell everybody in detox how I made it a whole week and I was tricked into service.

>> Such a simple idea. The missing link, the 12th and final suggestion. There's a poem in Notre Dame.

It says, "I sought my God. My God, I could not see. I sought my soul.

My soul I could not free. I sought my brother and I found all three. >> And that's why we talk about nothing ensures immunity from drinking more than intensive work with others.

You know, you tell a 5-year-old kid, "Go in your room and straighten out your room." He doesn't want to do it. You tell that same little kid, go in your room and throw out all your old stuff. We'll buy you new stuff.

How long would that take if you're new? What if it was really true? What if it was really true that you could have a life behind your wildest dreams?

What if you could really have a way to navigate around the drama? What if it was really true that you could have relationships that really work? Cuz if people have to change for me to be happy, you know what?

I'm done. What Alcoholics Anonymous has showed me over a period of time is how to be happy in a perfectly dysfunctional world with really dysfunctional people. How to stay spiritually fit in the midst of that storm.

One of the oldest stories in AA is about this little 5-year-old kid and he wants to play with his dad and the dad's, you know, like an accountant. He's trying to figure out a way to occupy this little 5-year-old. So, what the dad does, he gets this map of the world.

You know, National Geographic, they have those beautiful maps and he gets this map of the world and he rips it up into like 50 pieces and he gives it to this little 5-year-old and he he gives a little boy some tape and he says, "What I want you to do, son, is I want you to put this map of the world back together and when you're done, we'll play." And he's thinking it's going to take the little boy an hour. Little 5-year-old comes back in 2 minutes. He's got the whole map of the world put back together and the dad says, "That's impossible.

I'm 50 years old. I couldn't do it. How did you do it?

And the little boy says, "Well, Dad, on the back of the map of the world, there was a picture of a man. I just put the man back together and the whole world fell into place." If you're new, that seems to be the spiritual technology of Alcoholics Anonymous. to rebuild the man or woman 1 through three with God, 4 through 7 with self through inventory, 8 and nine with others through amends, and then to show me how to maintain, develop, and grow those three relationships in 10:11 as well.

Real simple, straightforward process. And I, like I was saying, I mean, I'm so grateful to be here. There's three prayers in this life.

One is, God, help me. Remember, we all said that. That's how we got here.

>> The other one is God give me. It's probably the greatest distraction on earth. But the one I'd never said was, "God, use me." >> And I end up in Bermuda.

I could never ever ever pay a back. You know, my mom moved and didn't leave a forwarding address. That's what I came in here with.

I came in here with nothing. And, you know, after 10 years, I got to get back and and and spend a number of years with her. You know, take her on wheelchair rides and be the son that she'd always hoped I would be.

All the things that I had destroyed, you guys put together one little piece at a time, and I could never pay you back for that. >> Thank you, Bobby, for inviting me. Have a really great weekend.

Thank you. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day.