The Fellowship I Never Knew I Craved – AA Speaker – John S.
AA speaker John S. shares how he went from suicidal at 3.5 years sober to finding fellowship and purpose in recovery through sponsorship and active participation in meetings.
John S., an alcoholic from Billings, Montana, spent decades running and drinking before landing in AA in December 1982. In this AA speaker tape, he walks through his journey from resistance and self-will to discovering that the fellowship he craved was waiting for him all along—and how a no-nonsense sponsor named Richard forced him to stop thinking his way out and start living his way in.
John S. describes his drinking career, hitting bottom in a basement with suicidal thoughts, and what changed when he finally got to Alcoholics Anonymous. The AA speaker explores how working with sponsors—first Richard, then Jim—taught him that recovery is not about quitting drinking but about learning to live, and how fellowship and service work became the solution he never knew he needed. He reflects on 40+ years sober and the power of staying connected to the program even during illness, bankruptcy, and crisis.
Episode Summary
John S. is a rancher and businessman from Billings, Montana, who got sober December 19, 1982, after a lifetime of control, manipulation, and what he calls his “secret weapon”—the certainty that he knew things that weren’t true. For decades, he drank everywhere, with everyone, convinced he was sharper than most people and smarter than any solution. He worked in his family’s agricultural business, flew helicopters to oversee crews of other alcoholics, and slowly destroyed the beautiful woman he married while telling himself it was her fault.
By the time he hit his bottom on December 18, 1982, John was waking up in basements he couldn’t remember, losing his pickup truck, and spending hours deciding whether to kill himself, his wife, or both. His mind flipped constantly: *What if I go to AA and it works? What if I go to AA and it doesn’t work?* He couldn’t even get drunk anymore—he’d drink a fifth of whiskey and stay sober, then two beers later and he’d be incapacitated. He had lost all control.
What saved him wasn’t a moment of clarity or a spiritual awakening. It was a friend named Frank who’d gotten sober and wouldn’t drink with him anymore. Six months later, John found Frank again and asked about AA. Frank handed him the 20 questions and told him flatly: quit drinking, then come to a meeting. John read those questions at the Keg Bar at 8:30 a.m. with other drunks, convinced it was a trap—Alcoholics Anonymous was just a membership scam to get people to pay dues.
He showed up anyway, hungover and terrified, and found Richard, his first sponsor. Richard was no-nonsense. He wore a three-piece suit, smoked constantly, had bad posture, and told John outright: *Maybe now you’ll start acting like you’re responsible for your own actions.* Richard had clearly been talking to John’s wife. From that first night, John was relayed—picked up by members in the morning, taken to meetings, fed terrible-tasting health shakes, and kept surrounded by recovering alcoholics until his mind stopped trying to kill him.
Richard made it clear the meeting place was sacred. When John showed up greasy from ranch work, Richard told him: “Get away from me. This place saved my life. You need to start cleaning up to come here. If you’re not interested in doing that, don’t come.” John wanted to argue—he was a farmer, he had reasons—but Richard shot down every excuse. Just pack clean clothes in the car and change at the bathroom.
The turning point came when John started trying to manipulate his marriage instead of ending it. Richard told him to tell his wife he loved her (even though he didn’t), and show it through actions—picking up his underwear, doing laundry, small things she wasn’t expecting. John’s wife, Cindy, eventually started going to open AA meetings, then Alanon. He wasn’t changing much, but she was. Years later, when Richard left AA, John thought he had it figured out. Two years sober felt like a pinnacle. He didn’t need a sponsor—he’d use the group. For the next two years, he nearly died.
He bought a ranch with no visible means of support. The markets crashed. He sat on the verge of bankruptcy for three years, suicidal at 3.5 years sober, worth more dead than alive. One day in a building called “the dire pin” (where foreclosures happened), he decided to go home and kill himself. Then a pretty girl walked across the street. He thought about her for three hours. Then: *Oh yeah, suicide.* Once he realized his mind worked that way, he didn’t take it so seriously anymore.
Everything changed when he got Jim as a sponsor and decided to actually work the steps out of the Big Book. Jim didn’t tell him to fake it—he made John do it. Together they started the recovery group in Billings, with greeters at the door and a culture of activity, not passivity. John went from hanging around AA to getting into it. He saw new guys with time get better. He saw his wife transform. He sponsored dozens of men over the years.
The talk takes on spiritual weight when John talks about his cancer diagnosis in January—how he misheard the doctor and thought he was dying in 45 minutes, how his wife and kids and Cindy’s sponsees brought him food every day, how his sponsor called him every day, how he got letters and cards from one end of the country to the other. He describes this as “waves of gifts” from a man who couldn’t hold a job, who hated his kids, who drove his family to the edge. He didn’t do anything to deserve it except show up and stay.
John closes with a reflection on living one day at a time—not just as a slogan but as a spiritual practice. His sponsor used to say: “Bring your head where your butt is.” Your butt is in the here and now. Your head is in the past (guilt, remorse) or the future (catastrophe). When you bring your head to the present moment, you’re in God’s time. And in God’s time, nothing can go wrong.
He tells one last story: At 11 years sober, his sister was so depressed she hadn’t laughed in months. John picked her up for lunch and told her he’d been thinking maybe he wasn’t that bad, maybe if anybody had gone through what he did they’d drink too, maybe he was just weak and AA made him go. His sister started laughing so hard she had to run to the bathroom. When she came back, she said: “You’re crazy. Every single day for four years you drank and drank. We were so afraid you were going to kill somebody or yourself. And you sit here saying you weren’t that bad?”
That’s the message: his mind is fragile. The fellowship is fragile. Quit doing what you’re doing and the disease will convince him it was all a mistake. But there’s no place he’d rather be. And he’s grateful beyond measure.
Notable Quotes
God will show us how to create a fellowship that we crave, and boy, this is what I always wanted. I didn’t know it.
I’m the kind of guy who knows things that are not true and I will believe them until I die from it.
I didn’t want to get sober. I mean, why would you want to get sober? But I finally found out it’s always better for me to go to meetings because tomorrow I’m going to feel just a little bit better. Just the opposite of drinking.
My sponsor used to say, bring your head where your butt is. Your butt is in the right here and right now. When I’m in God’s time, there’s nothing that can go wrong.
Every single day for four years you drank and drank. We were so afraid you were going to kill somebody or yourself. And you sit here saying you weren’t that bad?
Willingness
Hitting Bottom
Emotional Sobriety
Big Book Study
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Sponsorship
- Willingness
- Hitting Bottom
- Emotional Sobriety
- Big Book Study
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Hi everybody.
My name is John Scott and I'm an alcoholic. >> I was watching that young lady do this this morning. Just as time for applause.
I want to I want to thank you folks for inviting me to this very special occasion. Uh your birthday and uh uh I got a I got a group that I call home group just almost as crazy as you folks. Bunch of sick and people there.
And and uh ain't none of you that wouldn't fit right in. So come see us anytime you want to. It's a recovery group in Billings and uh they are a strange assortment of wonderful and wacky people.
So, uh, uh, if you, uh, if you feel like this group is doing it wrong, come over to our group and we'll straighten out. I want to thank Chad and the committee for asking me to, to show up here on this, uh, monmentous occasion. Uh, I want to thank, uh, Mike and and Jay for being prompt and meeting me at the airport.
Well, kind of. They kind of met me at the airport, but anyway, they were there. I didn't have to walk.
So, that was good. And and uh uh I've just had a great time. Uh uh all kidding aside, this this uh this is the type of AA that I crave.
It's a little phrase in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous on on the page 164. It says that God will show us how to create a fellowship that we crave. And boy, this is what I always this is what I always wanted.
I didn't know it. You know, I I'm the kind of guy who always knows what I want, but what I really want is not what I want. And when I get what I really really want, it's not what I really wanted.
And and and people would say, "No, you don't want that. You want this over here." And I'd say, "No, that's not what I want over there. I want this here." And I'd get this here.
And that this here just got me weirder and weirder and weirder. And finally, I started doing what I didn't want to do. And I started getting everything I ever really wanted.
And I didn't know that's what I wanted until I got here. And uh that's a that's an amazing thing about Alcoholics Anonymous. Uh uh I I'm the kind of guy who knows.
I don't know if there's anybody else in here who knows, but I know I know things that is that are not true and I will believe them until I die from it. I know that things are true even though everybody all around me is saying, "No, that's not the way to do it." And I go, "Yeah, it is. That's exactly the way I should do it." And that's how I got here.
Doing it exactly the way I thought I should do it every chance I got. and and uh so uh I don't want you to think I'm slow, but I'm a little slow. I've finally come to the conclusion after after being here for quite some time.
It's uh it's dawning on me. I'm not I'm not too swift. And took me a year and a half.
I'm sitting in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. And one day I woke up, my god, I'm an alcoholic. So don't call me Lightning for nothing.
You know, I I've been sober since December 19th, 1982. And for that, and for that, I'm awful grateful. And so are a whole bunch of other people.
And and uh uh this is not what I wanted to do. I didn't want to get sober. I mean, why would you want to get sober?
I mean, really. I mean, when I was out there drinking, I mean, that's that was kind of I'd get relaxed. You know, you have a few drinks and you have a kind of a miserable day and you're tense and nervous and upset and go in there and you have a few drinks and just I mean it's just kind of come over you, you know, and you can kind of relax and begin to talk about things you absolutely have no clue in the world what you're talking but it's okay.
I I had a brand new banker one time and and uh we got in an argument one night. He was at the Northern Hotel. I drank basically in two places.
I drank in the Northern Hotel or the Kegore. The Northern Hotel was where all the ranchers and farmers and realators and business people went and drank. Kind of an upper class place.
And I I drank at the keg bar where all the bikers and the wannabe husbands and the uh near do wells all drank. And I was comfortable at either place. It didn't matter.
Usually I'd started out at the northern and then they'd kick me out of there and I'd end up at the at the keg. and and uh I uh I can uh I I can't uh I can't uh tell you uh how much I you know whether I drink at one place or the other any more than than the the other. I mean I don't know cuz most of my stories I was blacked out most of the time.
So most of my stories hearsay. Uh I'm uh uh married to the same wife that I was married to when I was drinking. Um we got to where we hated each other a lot.
Uh, not when I first found her. When I first found her, I thought she was it. And uh, I was playing in rock and roll band then at the time.
A few years earlier, I was working for my dad on the ranch. And and all of a sudden, I thought I needed a little change. So, I went from being a redneck cowboy in the early 60s to a long-haired maggotinfested hippie in the late, you know, and u don't, you know, I'm I'm a chameleon.
You know, what what do you want to see? and I'll be it, you know, it doesn't matter. And and anyway, I got in this rock and roll band and I was I was a legend in my own mind for quite some time.
And we played we played all over the world and various other places, you know, mostly around Billings and and and I don't have no flashy story. I really don't. I just I just drank and I I didn't get in a lot of trouble.
I mean, every once in a while I'd be forced into hitting a cop or something, get thrown in jail for a little bit, but that, you know, there was really there's no flash really to tell you the truth. Uh uh at first my drinking career was fantastic. I mean I just had a blast, you know.
Uh my wife who was a black belt alanon and she she uh she thought that she was getting a pretty good deal when she met me because I was playing in this rock and roll band and I didn't drink then. I I just did as many drugs as I could but I never drank. And and I uh I uh remember uh you know uh she was kind of proud of the fact that I didn't drink.
After four years of starving to death, I finally decided to go back to work in the agriculture and I I uh you know cut my hair, started drinking, started catching hippies and cutting their hair, you know, and and and uh I just I just went back to another way of life and it didn't it's easy for me to do that. I can do that without almost thinking. I mean, it just seems like the thing to do, you know.
I I got this thing that I work with all the time and it it talks to me in the night, you know, whenever I'm trying to sleep and it'll tell me about how they're screwing me over again and I'll figure out a new way to go. And and uh uh I uh uh like I said, I loved her dearly. I I really did.
And I found myself uh slowly over a period of time taking that beautiful woman and just almost destroying her. Uh uh we ended up with several kids and and uh I was working I ended up working for my dad on the ranch and and uh it was not a small place. Um we had a pretty goodiz outfit.
My job it was in the morning I'd step outside of my house and I'd go over to my helicopter and I'd get in it and I'd fly to work and I'd make sure that there's about 75 alcoholics just like me working as hard as they could. And the reason I hired alcoholics is you don't want to hire alanons to make you look bad, you know. And and I would I would uh I would uh at night I'd have them all over at my house and we'd be drinking and I don't need to tell you not much got done.
That was a great place to work, but nobody worked. and and uh uh we uh uh you know we finally went broke in that place and and that was in the 70s and and uh uh sold my helicopter and fired all my alies and and know and one thing led to another and I I I just got to where I drank a lot because the job load was over, you know, and I I the reason I drank for the longest time was because I had this great big heavy this heavy job load that I had. And and of course I drank because of her.
If you if you had a woman like I did, you drink too, you know. And and and uh I uh uh during the late 70s, I just got to drinking a lot. I drank I drank every day.
I drank as much as I could every day. And I wasn't always drunk, but if I if I wasn't drunk, I'd been drinking, you know, and and I didn't trust anybody that didn't drink. You can't trust them, you know?
How can you trust somebody who don't drink? And and uh and they didn't have any fun. And I was I you know, I wasn't worried about being an alcoholic, but one of the things that really bothered me is my wife wouldn't drink like I drink.
And she would we'd have her have, you know, two or three drinks and and she'd get like two down and she'd say, "Well, no, thank you. I'm starting to feel it." Of course, you're starting to feel it. That's what you're supposed to do.
You have a couple more drinks and you'll get past that feeling, whatever you feel, and you'll get to what I feel. And and she just wouldn't do it, you know. And she'd sit there.
She'd get these drinks with the umbrellas in them, you know, and all the weird names and the weird colors. And she'd sit there and she'd do that and she'd talk or she'd sit there and she'd do that and she'd talk. I mean, that's alcohol abuse.
You never would touch it, you know. And I and I my deal was I walk in the bar and they know what my deal was. It's two at a time to keep them coming.
And they knew what two at a time was, you know, and and I'd just sit down there. They set two drinks up and if she was there, they'd ask her what she wanted. She go, "Well, I I you know, and it's just like a major decision for her to figure out what she's going to drink." And and uh uh I'd have to you know, I'd drink my two down and she's still talking and letting her ice melt in hers.
and I'd have to sit there and drink her. So, I didn't look so bad because I ordered another set and and uh she never did do it good. She never could learn how to drink and I was always kind of embarrassed by her attitude and she uh she uh she never did catch it.
and and uh I uh uh I was uh when I first got to Alcoholics Anonymous uh I had a sponsor Nathan Richard and Richard uh he explained to me about the nature of the illness of alcoholism and he'd point me to the uh doctor's opinion in the big book and he'd talk about this allergy to alcohol that we have and and uh you know I couldn't get it. I I couldn't get it you know and I'm allergic to things. I'm allergic to apples, bananas, cherries, and avocados.
And and oh, by the way, I want to thank the committee for the fruit basket. Um, and uh when I take a bite out of an apple, I uh I uh swallow up. My chest swells up, my throat swells shut, and I can't breathe.
And and uh and I never had a reaction like that when I drank alcohol. When I drank alcohol, I just uh I just got thirsty. I just wanted more.
I mean, it just tasted like another drink. And and uh you know they in the book it talks about a craving for alcohol. I never had a craving for alcohol.
Not once. You know I' I'd go into the town every once in a while go to the Northern Hotel and you know heck it might be 8:30 in the morning but I wasn't craving. I was just thirsty.
And I'd go in there and they'd give me two at a time and they kept them coming until you know the bar closed. And how the Northern Hotel would close is at uh uh at 12:30 1:00 they would shut down. Well, the bar is closed in Montana at two o'clock, so they would just shut down and you could sit there and drink all you wanted to.
Well, sometimes I'd find myself alone drinking and and uh everybody else is gone and they just leave all the drinks on the table that everybody else had and I would just Well, I mean, it's free booze. I mean, you can't turn that down. So, I'd go around and I just mix all these drinks that everybody had left and shoot, I'd finish it off, you know, and and uh somebody told me once that wasn't really social drinking, but I felt like it it was a good deal for me.
I thought it was like a blue light special and and I I uh I uh did that a lot. Uh and and uh the the thing is is that it finally got to where I couldn't I couldn't do it anymore. I mean, I got to where uh my life was really getting turned upside down.
And I had this imaginary thing going on. I always I always thought I was something special. I I really did.
I thought that I had some things going for me that other people didn't. I had this gray matter, my secret weapon between my ears. and and uh one of the things that I kind of knew that nobody else really knew was that that I was just a hair above the average bear.
I mean, I I was just a little bit sharper than most. And uh because I I I was somebody, you know, I mean, I had people fly me to Minneapolis and to Chicago and bankers and lawyers and feed me, whim me and dime me and that kind of stuff. And and uh I just had this illusion about who and what I was.
And and the truth of the matter is it was all a lie. I believe lies. I love lies.
You give me a You give me a guy who will tell me the truth or a crook, I'll believe the crook every time. You know why? Because I like him.
Honest guy, I can't hardly stand because he tells me the truth. No, truth always for me was kind of like just painful. You know, I just don't want to hear it.
And and I and I got to Alcoholics Anonymous and I had a lot of people tell me a lot of truths and I didn't like it at all. And uh the truth of the matter was is I was so desperate when I finally got here um that I was willing to do some things that that I've never been willing to do ever before in my entire life. And uh I said that my sobriety date was the 19th, but I got to always remember the 18th, the 18th of December.
Uh I woke up in a basement of a house uh that I really didn't know where I was at. And u I finally figured out where I was at and me and this other guy who had been drinking for quite some time. Uh I was a runner.
I'd get drunk and I'd be gone for, you know, two or three weeks and then I'd get sober for a little bit and then I'd be gone for two or three weeks. And I mean a little bit, I'm talking about 24, 48 hours. I I was never somebody who could stay sober for very long.
I mean, why would you? And and I ended up uh waking up that day and and uh I'd lost my pickup. I always I had a tendency to lose my pickup every once in a while.
And and uh it was stolen mostly and and I'd end up uh uh talking to this guy and I says, you know, listen, I I can't do this anymore. I mean, uh I'm trying to figure out how to kill my wife and kids. And I really was because it was their fault.
It was their fault my life is upside down the way it was. I mean, I'd already decided that I had to kill myself. And I just I was kind of like Wayne was talking about just couldn't quite get there.
You know, it just depending on what five minutes. I had a mind of a newcomer, you know, what five minutes it is or two seconds. It's like, well, I need to kill her.
Well, I need to kill myself, you know, or you know, what if I go to AA and it works? Well, what if I go to AA and it don't work? You know, what happens if she stays?
What happens if she leaves? You know, my mind's just flipping back and forth just all the time. And I could never it was really hard for me to stop this thinking that I had.
And sometimes it used to be in the past that when I drank it would stop. But now it can't it doesn't even stop anymore. And I found myself, you know, drinking as much as I could, trying to shut that thing down a little bit.
And what would happen is I just I'd drink I'd drink like a fifth of whiskey or two fifths of whiskey and and I would just be sober. And then the next time I drink, I'd drink like a can or two beers and I'd be so bombed out I couldn't even function, you know. And so I had absolutely lost my control over the alcohol.
And uh um anyway, this morning we went and found my pickup and there's a guy named Frank who'd been out at the feed lot where I where I worked at on the ranch and he'd come several months earlier about six months earlier and he'd come out to the ranch and he uh uh he wasn't drinking and Frank and I drank. I mean, Frank drank like I drank and we would uh we would just I mean, we'd just get going and next thing you know, heck, it might be a week or two before we got back. And and uh Frank said I was opinionated one night.
We argued about it all that night. And the next morning, uh I finally proved him wrong, you know. And and I I ended up that night losing my pickup, too, come to think of it.
And and the thing is that what happened is Frank shows up that night 6 months before I got to Alcoholics Anonymous and he wouldn't drink and he he would not have a drink with me. I said, "What the what's what's wrong with you, Frank? How come you're not drinking?
You always drink." And uh he says, "No, I'm I'm just not going to have a drink." And and I'm a very obnoxious drunker and I'm drinking. If if you're not going to if you're not going to have fun with me, then I I have fun with you. And so Frank Frank's trying to get up these stairs.
my bar is in the basement underneath the kitchen and and his uh he he was trying to get upstairs and I'd just go grab him by the hind leg and drag him back down the stairs and put him on this stool and we'd sit there and have these drinks and well he wasn't drinking, I was drinking and he kept telling me he had to go. He had to go and I kept saying, "Well, why do you have to go? What's so important that you got to leave an old buddy like John sitting here by himself, you know, and finally he told me, he says, "Well, John," he says, "I'm going to I'm going to go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous tonight.
I've been going for about four months." I said, "Frank, my god, Alcoholics Anonymous. That's a Aren't you overcorrecting just a little bit, Frank?" And and and uh I says, "Geez, you drink just like I do." And he says, "Yeah, I know." And and and I said, "My God, Frank." And then I got to thinking about it and my life is upside down. I mean, uh I hated my wife.
I hated my job. I hated everything. And and uh and I said to Frank, I says,"Frankm, maybe I'll go to that meeting with you." He says, "Hell no." He says, "You can't come to a meeting with me." I said, "Why not, Frank?" He says, he said, "Because Alcoholics Anonymous is for people who have quit drinking and you're still drinking.
Obviously, when you want to quit, come see me." He says, "Come see me tomorrow." He says, "I'll take you to a meeting tomorrow, but I'm not going to take you one tonight." And I can remember waking up that next morning going, "Oh my god, you know what I almost did? I almost went to ANA last night." you know, gez, this is getting freaky. I'm going to have to quit this stuff.
I'm going to have to really start paying attention what's going on here because so anyway, 6 months later, we're driving down the road, me and this other guy that I've been drinking with. And I told him, I says, "We need to go see Frank. Frank's going to Alcoholics Anonymous." And see, I know things that's not true, and I believe him.
And I know that Alcoholics Anonymous is about how you learn how to drink socially. So, I I was under the impression that that's what we was going to learn. We're going to learn how to go in there and just uh you know, drink like my wife drank.
You know, have one or two drinks and then leave. And uh I was badly mistaken when I got here. You guys had other plans.
But the the thing was is that I find I finally found Frank. He was working over at the feed store and uh and uh oh, he was glad to see me. He was just so tickled.
He had these 20 questions, these AA 20 questions. And he handed them to me and this other guy is with and says, "Here, read these." and and uh we was reading them and and uh we was asking Frank if he'd take us to a meeting and it was 8:00 in the morning. We'd already gone out and got us a case of beer cuz we were thirsty whenever I drink a lot like that.
I get thirsty and the next morning I get nervous and I need something to calm me down a little bit and I'd already had one or two beers. And Frank says, "No, I won't take you to meeting." I said, "Come on, Frank. When can we go to a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous?" He says, "When you quit drinking?" He says, "You've not quit drinking yet." And says, "As soon as you quit drinking, I'll be glad to take you." He says, "Drink all you want to today.
Drink until the sun goes down." He says, "Drink until midnight." He said, "But you know, don't drink tomorrow and I'll take you to a meeting." And uh, you know, he says, "In the meantime, look at these 20 questions." So, me and this other guy, we decided to go to the keg bar. You know, it's 8 8:15 in the morning. And, uh, I knew another thing that that wasn't true.
I I knew that with a name like Alcoholics Anonymous, your membership is dropping really bad. Have to be. I mean, Alcoholics Anonymous, come on.
And then you guys was somehow getting these new guys to come in and getting them to pay 50 25 $50 $100 a month for membership. And the way you suckered these dummies in there is you had this test that nobody could pass. There 20 questions.
So five of us guys in the keg board 8:30, 9:00 in the morning are trying to pass this test and we're, you know, check one off you may be. Check two off you probably are. Check three off you're in bad trouble.
before you're done, you know. Well, heck, I'm getting like 18, 19 of these things checked off, you know, and everybody else does, too. And, you know, it's obvious.
It's a trap. It's a stinking trap. And um uh my my wife was working at a bank at the time because uh oh, we was during it was in the middle of a recession in Billings, Montana.
I mean, we had I mean, nobody could get a job anywhere. And uh one of the time she'd move out and she'd move in, she'd move out and she'd move in and all this was going on cuz we'd hate each other for 5 seconds and all of a sudden we'd fall in love again and then have to bring her back and and then she'd leave and then I'd have to go find her or I'd leave and she'd have to come find me. We we like we was like we hated each other but we couldn't turn loose.
You know what I mean? And we just couldn't turn loose of each other but we hated each other. And the more we hated each other, the more we couldn't turn loose.
And the more we tried to help each other, the worse we got. And so finally um you know uh one of the times she moved to town and she said she was going to get a job. I laughed.
I what the hell you going to get a job? How can you get a job? So we have this recession going on in buildings.
All my friends at the keg bar ain't none of them have a job. Been looking for years and and uh and uh I didn't know I was married to pre Allen. She went in there and she found three jobs in a half an afternoon and was working all three of them and and one of them was at a bank and the bank was having a party that night and the night of the 18th and I I called I called her and I says I'm not going to make it to the party cuz she she would not go anywhere with me drinking after after some time and and because I was I was I'm the kind of guy to get up on the bars and you know pour drinks as I'm walking down over your drinks and and uh they I got kicked out of those I get I mean it's one thing to get kicked out of the northern.
It's another thing to get kicked out of the cake. And I just got it. It didn't matter.
It seems like they all they just didn't like me sometimes. And and I had to uh I'd called her up and I told her I said, "Cindy, I'm not going to make it to your Christmas party. I just can't make it.
I'm drinking." But I want you to know one thing. I'm going to Alcoholics Anonymous tomorrow. Oh, she was elated.
She went and uh I can I drank all that day, the 18th, I drank as much as I could and I never even got drunk. Uh, I drank all day long and I couldn't even get drunk. And I would sit over there in the corner and I would cry.
I'd cry because I so lonely cuz nobody loved me. Cuz nobody cared about me. And I had such deep feelings for other people.
And I just ball. And then you'd come over and try to console me and I'd want to fight you because you're one of those people. You was else against me or for me.
You was always against me or for me, one or the other. And it didn't matter. uh if he was really for me, he wasn't for me enough because if he was, you'd do this or whatever it was.
So, he was always against me. Everybody's against me. So, I just ball.
And the next morning, uh I woke up and I for some reason that was on the 19th and I've never had another drink since. And uh I went to I went to uh Frank called says, "I want you to come in a little early." Says, "Go to go to have a supper with me and a guy named Richard." And he says, ' And if you would uh you come on in early and we'll uh we'll sit down and we'll uh visit a little bit. Well, uh we went over to this restaurant and I was not hungry.
Uh fact is when I drank like I drank, I I didn't want to eat for days and days after I quit drinking. I didn't want to eat when I was drinking, you know, and and uh I used to tell people I was anorexic when I got to Alcoholics Anonymous and look what it's done for me now, you know, because I only weighed about 160 pounds at the I know it's hard to believe, but I was kind of ganded up. And I uh found myself uh going over there to this restaurant and uh Richard and Frank were there and they was, "Oh, order the steak.
It's really good." And and they ordered me a steak and they ate it, you know, cuz I wasn't hungry. And uh I remember Richard asking me some questions and he he told me a little bit about his life and how he'd been he had worked for General Motors and how he had made a lot of money over the years and then he had been struck with this disease called alcoholism and uh he'd been fired, got sober for five years, went back out and drank again and now he's sober again for five years and uh he wore a three-piece suit, winged up shoes and just stood just like this cuz he had bad back and smoked cigarettes just just like this constantly, you know, just a little bit intense. And and uh uh he asked me, he says, "Do you believe that you're responsible for your own actions?" Now, I know that this is an elite group of Alcoholics Anonymous because I've been trying to get into it for over six months and I keep getting turned down.
And uh and my mind is just just, you know, just wheeling and rolling and and I I said yes. And he says, "Good." He says, "Maybe now you'll start acting like you're responsible for your own actions." And I thought, "My god, he's been talking to Cindy. I knew he had, you know, and and at least Richard had or Frank had been talking to Cindy because Frank and Cindy were later on whenever I got into Alcoholics Anonymous, Frank would always rat on me every chance he got and usually through Cindy.
And uh so anyway, I uh I told him yes and he says, "Good. Maybe you'll start acting like it." And I didn't know at the time, but Alcoholics Anonymous was beginning to was already starting to get my mind set to where I could do things that I never dreamed possible. I found myself going to that meeting that night.
I don't remember much that said. I remember that there's another new girl there and I've never seen her since. I also remember that there's people laughing and scratching and having a great time with each other.
They were just having a ball. And I was really kind of feeling sorry for myself because they were all paid counselors obviously, you know, because if they was alcoholics like I was an alcoholic, they wouldn't be laughing and having a good time. And that night there was a guy who said that he would be my sponsor.
And my thoughts was, well, he must be gonna pay that 50 bucks for the next few months and kind of get me started here or something like that. I didn't know what a sponsor was. And he says, I'll tell you what you do.
Says, when I go home tonight, he says, I want you to go home with me. And so I did. And he talked to me about alcoholics and honor for several hours until 2:00 in the morning when the bars closed.
And then he said, "It's time for you to go home now." So I went home and in the morning he called me back up again and says, "Come on in." in and he had an auction and I went in there and stayed there until about 11:00 and then two guys from the group showed up and then they took me out to eat at lunch and they all the time were talking about Alcoholics Anonymous. Now I'm really kind of nervous about this time. So they fixed up this concoction of Kroll syrup and honey and orange juice and a few vitamins and put it in a blender and and said, "Drink this.
It'll make you feel better." It didn't make me feel better, but it tasted so bad. I just told them, "I feel better. I feel better.
I really do." and and they kept trying to push us down for days and and I kept telling them, "I feel better. I feel better." But they wouldn't go for it. They wanted me to drink it.
And I hate orange juice to this day. But what happened is little by little I'd have another bunch of guys get me later on in that afternoon. And then they would take me to the meeting that night.
And then this this guy who was my sponsor, he would take me home until 2:00. And at 2:00, I'd go home. And then the next morning, I'd show up at his place.
And they started relaying me for two or three weeks. And uh I didn't drink. And here's a guy who was knocking out a fifth fifth and a half of whiskey every day with the you know two, three, six packs of beer.
And I just went from that to zip to nothing. And uh life is not wonderful when that happens. It just just makes you a little tense.
And and uh and uh and in the meantime, my sponsor starts calling me in the middle of the night saying, "They're getting close. They're in my closet. get in here.
I need some help now. Who are they? I don't know, but they're getting close.
YOU KNOW, I GO, YOU KNOW, I MAY BE NEW, BUT I'm not stupid. You know, and then he'd call me back up and say, "They're outside. They're in the car.
They're going to come in here any minute. Get in here." Click, you know, and I'd call up other people that he was sponsoring at the time. I said, "Jesus, have you talked to Johnny?" "Yeah, he's crazy as hell." You know, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, "WHAT SHOULD I DO?" I DON'T KNOW.
I'M NOT GOING over me either. You know, and then you hang up the room, your phone ring. It's Johnny.
WHO YOU BEEN TALKING TO? UH UH UH I WAS TALKING to Joey. Joey just worried about you.
Oh, Joy's against me, too, huh? You know, you know, I just we go talk to the old-timers and they say, "Stay away. Stay away.
Just keep coming. Keep coming to meetings. Keep coming." So, even though I was new, my my uh I knew that that was just a little twist, didn't it?
And in about 45 days, he he'd gotten mad at his group. He got mad at his sponsor and he got a little twisted and and he was gone. So I thought, well, now I get a chance to ask somebody to be my sponsor.
I've been kind of eyeing this a little blonde for last couple of days and and and I was kind of walk I come into the meeting. I was kind of walking across the hall or the room there and this Richard intercepted me and he says uh he says, "I'm sorry to hear about your sponsor." I said, "Well, uh yeah." He says, "Well," he says, "I'm going to be your sponsor now." I said, "Well, Johnny or Richard, I'm I'm not sure that I I I don't really think I want you to be my sponsor. I mean, I didn't ask or nothing." Oh, he says, "It doesn't matter what you want." He says, "I'm going to be your sponsor now." And and uh and he was like that.
He always knew what I needed before I knew what I needed, you know, and he would just tell me things to do. And somehow I was sick enough that I would listen to this used car salesman and do what he told me to do, you know, and and uh and in a few days I'd bought a car from him, you know, a diesel. and and uh but he he really had a way about him about it.
He made me feel like I was important, but at the same time, he made me understand that there's a whole bunch that I didn't have a clue about, you know, and he was able to kind of kind of spoon feed me along a little bit and get me to do things that I would not do for anybody. And and uh uh uh you know, I I came in here and I had this bad attitude because I had the secret weapon cuz I knew a little more than most of you. I mean, I looked at the steps on the wall and the traditions.
I thought, "Yeah, for those people, they're probably going to need them. You know, they're pretty sick bunch, but I'll be all right. I'll be all right." I, you know, I looked at the steps.
I thought, "Three weeks, three weeks, I'll be out here." And, uh, you know, and here it is 18 years later, I'm still trying to get them. But the truth of the matter is is what happened is little by little, I I got sour after I got sober. I mean, sobriety to me wasn't, you know, I found God in a and everything.
Sobriety was sucked. I hated sobriety. I mean, it was not what I it is not what I really wanted.
And at the same time, I knew that I couldn't drink because drinking scared me to death because when I drink, anything's possible. Anything anything is possible. Uh I mean, I could get suicidal or homicidal and and uh I didn't want that either.
And I was really in a trap because I didn't have sobriety and I and I and I and I wasn't drinking. And and there used to be an old guy named Nick. And Nick used to say, you know, it'd be a shame for us to take away booze to from an alcoholic and not give him something better.
And I kept listening in these meetings where there's something better. And it never it never clicked. And oh, I was a whiner.
I would whine. I'd go up to the old times and I tell them how bad she was cuz she was treating me so badly. And she was she really was.
I mean, it was it was it killed most of you, I guess. But the trouble is, the trouble is what happened is this bunch that I was with was a bunch of vicious old-timers, and they wouldn't put up with this crap. And and I remember one night this this there's people in this group like Gerald.
He was Gerald was a uh kind of a hillbilly type of guy from Warm Springs, you know, that's the nut house in Montana. Um there's another guy, this guy named Nick. He was a he was a little old guy who had been a counselor down in Denver.
And there's another guy named Rotten Ralph who was an attorney. He earned a name. I mean, he he got the name right.
and and uh and there's a bunch of these old guys around there, you know, that that uh had uh you know, 10, 15, 20 years. And uh uh they uh they just wouldn't put up with much stuff. And and you know, uh Rotten Rob's deal was, you know, he would sit there in the meeting and he would pick on some new guy and kind of, you know, there may be a group there, but you know who he was talking to.
And and he would sit there and say these things that would just, you know, cut you to the bone. And then after he was through, he'd pull out a dollar out of his shirt pocket and say, "Now, if I have really made you mad, maybe I ought to buy you your first drink. So, if anybody wants a drink, here's a dollar." You know, these are the kind of loving people I was running around with.
And then there's this other guy, this Nick. And Nick says, "There's no need for me to remember anybody's name around here unless they've been here for six months because everybody's just coming and going." He says, "I'm not even going to worry about it." And I by God, I'm going to make him remember my name. So, I I walked up to there one night and I and I don't know if you've ever done this with an older member, but you sit there and you kind of say things in a way that you can kind of get them to where they eating out of your hand, you know, where they kind of going with you a little bit.
And I started telling little Nick about this bad story of war that I had with my terrible wife that I was still married to even though I couldn't stand her. And uh and uh and I could see it in his eyes. It start he's starting a little compassion, you know.
There's about eight or nine people left in the room that night. And all of a sudden, he jumps up and screams at me. He got this real high shrill little voice, you know.
He says, "So you're a goddamn alcoholic now. What the hell are you going TO DO ABOUT IT?" You know, and and it's like, you know, just people are hearing this, you know. Oh, man.
Badger me. And I just, you know, I get up and I get out and I'm going to go outside and to get outside, I got to go by this refrigerator in this hallway. And and Nick has beat me to it.
And he's over there and he's got this little three-finger push right in my chest, pushing me up against this refrigerator. He says, "Why don't you just get the hell out of here?" He says, "You're wasting your time. You're wasting their time.
And your dangster wasting my time. Just get the hell out of here." And old Nick's just right over his corner. Just right over his shoulder.
Here, get that. Let me buy you a first drink. LET ME BUY YOU A FIRST DRINK.
And I just I mean I'm about I'm about a month and I just I JUST, YOU KNOW, I get outside. I I push them outside and I get outside and I get in this car that my sponsor told me. I turn on, you know, it's a diesel.
It doesn't go anywhere else. Try and spin spin this gravel out in the middle of the parking lot. I get about halfway home and just going crazy and I'm honking the horn.
I'm beating on the dash. I got to drive 35 miles to to the ranch and it just and it just kind of dawned on me. What?
Well, I am an alcoholic. What am I going to do about it? And there and uh one of the things that old Gerald would do, he he'd sit there and he'd shake your hand.
You know, he's a kind of a self-appointed greeter and he'd come up and shake your hand, see how he was doing, and I'd tell him, "Terrible. Hate you, hate God. Hey, hey." And he'd say, he, you know, he did that for a couple weeks.
And then he says, "All right, that's enough." He says, "John, from now on," he says, "When I meet you, when I come up to you and I shake your hand and I ask you how you do it, you're going to say, "Well, Gerald, I'm getting better in every way every day. Thank you very much. And it's just it's just I go in there.
How you doing, John? >> Well, Gerald, I'm getting better every day, every way. Thank you very much.
You know, and and uh and uh I found myself I found myself a few days after the the refrigerator incident. I found myself driving back to town and I was just, you know, in my head was just, you know, just going nuts and and and I got to see I got to see that stinker and Richard, my sponsor who who insisted that, you know, I came in I came into a meeting one time. I'm I'm a farmer and rancher and I I had to be working on a tractor late one time and I came in and I was wearing my old hat and my my you know, I was greased up from one end to the other and the deal was I'd always sit next to him and I came in there and I sat down next to him.
And he looks at me, he says, "Get the hell away from me." Said, "What the hell's wrong with you? Get over there someplace. Get get as far away from me as you can because I'm afraid somebody might know you or think I know you." And and he Yeah.
And he says, "Oh, by the way, after the meeting, you and me." And oh, I hated that cuz when he said after the meeting you and me was always a bad sign. And uh uh and he explained to me, he says, you know, he says, "This is the place that saved my life." He says, "You need to start treating it like it might save your life." He says, 'You start cleaning up to come in here.' He says, ' Because this is where people like you and I get better. And he says, 'If you're not interested in doing that, then don't come.
Don't come? That's a little, you know, that's a little tough. You know, I kind of felt like they needed me by this point.
And and and he explained to me right away that they didn't need me. I needed them. And he says, "You have so little respect for anything." He said, "Let's start here." So, uh I explained to him how I was a farmer and I couldn't do it.
Now, I always had these reasons I can't do something. He just told me, you know, put clean pair of clothes in the in the car and change them when I get there in the bathroom. You know, oh, I guess I could do that, you know.
So, I figured that, you know, there's got to be a reason why I can't do this. But he just always kill me on every idea. You know, one of my first ideas was about going to meetings every night.
He says, "Well, how often did you drink?" I says, "Drink every night." "Where'd you drink at the Northern or the or the Keg?" He says, "Well, this is a better deal than that." He says, "You here you are. I'm only asking you to go to four meetings a week and we're going to get you out early. You can get you out by 11 o'clock, I guess.
So, anyway, you know, the truth of the matter is I found myself driving back to the meeting one more time and I'm thinking, well, I got to tell Gerald I'm getting better in every way, every day. Thank you very much, Gerald. And and it dawned on me.
I was in spite of me. And all of a sudden, things started to change. And all of a sudden, I began to see that there were things happening here that I did not plan on.
See, I thought Alcoholics Anonymous is about how do you quit drinking? And they taught me early on that Alcoholics Anonymous is about how do you start living? How do you start changing your life in order to live?
And I didn't know that. I thought that it was about putting the plug in the jug and everything's going to be wonderful. And uh putting the plug into the jug if you're an alcoholic, like I'm an alcoholic is brutal.
It's absolutely brutal. And that's why I like what you guys are doing here because if you're going to do it, it sounds to me like it's going to take a lifetime. That's what the book says.
And if it's going to be a lifetime and you're going to do it, by God, let's have a little fun doing it, you know, let's get let's get a little excited about what's going on here. And uh I mean, I've been to some places and it's just like, you know, watching paint dry around there, you know. You know, you don't want to smoke.
Somebody might go up in flames, you know. And uh it's just I mean, but what happened is little by little uh uh I was shown what can happen to somebody in Alcoholics Anonymous. my wife and I was getting a divorce and and uh my sponsor says, "Uh, well, now who's divorcing who?" And I said, "Well, I'm divorcing her.
Spent a lot of money on it, too, I might add." And she uh she was going to cost me a lot more, too. And and um Richard says, "Well, you'll quit that right now." You don't understand. This woman's crazy.
She lays in weight in closets with baseball bats when you come home in the middle of the night, you know. And he says, "Sure, she's crazy. She's got to be crazy.
Anybody lived with you for that long has got to be stinking out of her mind. And he says, I'll tell you what. He says, "We don't want you two to get separated because if you get separated, all of a sudden it'll be for you." You know, he says, "If we can keep you contained, we have a shot here." And and he he so he says, "What?" He says, "What I want you to do," he says, "I want you to start doing something a little different." He says, "From now on, I want you to go home and I want you to tell her how much you love her, but you're a liar." Just so you know that you're a liar.
And he says, "And from now on, because you're a liar, after you tell her you love her, she's not going to believe a word you say. So, you got to show her. And the way you show her is not what you're thinking.
It's some other way. It's this. You pick up your underwear.
You make the law or you do the laundry or you make a meal or you do something. You do something that is not expected of you. You maybe get her flowers occasionally.
You may do you, you know, be my deal. I just send her flowers all the time, not do nothing else." But but But the thing was is that he he was trying to show me how I could I could treat her better and he says he and he told me that I needed to tell her that I love her and I knew this is an honesty program and right off the bat my sponsor is making me lie and so I uh I ended up uh doing it anyway and because and the reason that I ended up doing it was because he told me he says I'll tell you what if you do it and you do it right he says I'm going to tell you what's going to happen. It'll drive her crazy.
And I said, "Oh, well, if it'll drive her crazy, I'll do it, you know." And so I I remember going out there and telling her that I loved her. And of course, I'd just drive her nuts and she she'd she'd just void that right away. And then I'd do something nice for her.
And I kept doing that day after day after day after day. And and not much was happening until one day she came up to me and she said, "You're dirty sobb. And here's why." And she had this little list and she'd obviously taken my inventory.
and and and she got down to the end and I said, "Well, Cindy, that's really nice." But I says, "You've left out a few items." And I just filled in a few more for her. And it's just like you could just see it there. Something inside of her just went, you know, she she just couldn't stand it anymore.
And and finally uh uh you know, she she started going to open AA meetings and and and then finally she went to Alanon and and I wasn't changing much, but you could see it in her. She was changing a great deal. And uh after two years, my sponsor Richard, he left.
Now, if you're if you got the secret weapon like I do, uh two years of sobriety, I mean, that's kind of like a pinnacle. I mean, you don't get much more brighter than two years in AA, I'll tell you. And if you're two years sober, I uh I remember thinking, well, I don't need a sponsor.
I mean, I'll use the group. And for the next two years, I dang near died in Alcoholics Anonymous used in the group. U there's a little phrase in in AA comes of age that Bill Wilson says.
He says the good is the enemy of the best. And that's what happens to me in Alcoholics Anonymous. I'll settle for good and I'll give up best.
I'll settle for good and I'll give up best because the good is the enemy of the best. And I and I thought that I was I thought that I had done the deal. It was time for me to go out and carve out my empire out of the wilderness.
you know, as I went and bought a ranch, you know, with no visible means of support. And immediately the stock market and the the wheat market and the land market and the machinery market, everything I just bought went so I sat in the on the verge of bankruptcy for the next two and a half, three years. And uh that's exciting and most of the time without a sponsor because I had I had this, you know, and uh I knew and when as long as I know, I'll never learn nothing.
and and I ended up uh I ended up being suicidal at three and a half years of sobriety. And uh I was worth more dead than I was alive. Now, I got a crazy mind.
And I want to tell you this story because this is probably if you're new and you're thinking, "Well, I I'll never get it." Or if you're feeling sorry for yourself, this is how good my mind works. I'm sitting there one day and I'd gone up to the bank. They wouldn't let us in the bank.
They let us in this other place, the building that they leased across town because they called that the dire pin. That's where everybody who was going to get axed financially went. And so I was over at the Dire Pin and I was going up the elevator and I was feeling sorry for myself because they was telling me every week that next week, this week we're not going to do it, but next week we're going to foreclose on your house and your business and everything else.
And that went on week after week after week after week forever. And uh I ended up uh I mean it dawned on me. I'm more dead than I am alive.
I need to just wipe myself out. And uh I come down out of that building that day and I'm thinking about going home and somehow killing myself. My wife and kids were gone.
And uh I drove around the block and there's this pretty girl just walked across the street and all I thought about for the next three hours with this pretty girl, you know, I was, you know, just grabbed another gear and went on, you know, and like three hours later, what was I thinking about? Oh yeah, suicide. you know, and I mean that's just but once I kind of begin to realize that that's the way my mind works, it's like I just don't take it so serious anymore, you know, and I I found myself uh uh gradually getting a little better and and the reason for that uh for the most part uh uh I I I started to try to work the steps in a way and and uh I wasn't getting much help because I'm I'm being sponsored by the group and when you're being sponsored by the group.
You don't want to ask anybody a real question because they might think you don't know. And you got to let them know that you know because if you don't know, they'll say, "Well, you should do something." And I don't want to do nothing. I just want to make you think that I know.
And uh I made a bad mistake one time. I I ended up going to Intergroup because uh Intergroup wasn't uh answering their phone, their their uh you know, their hotline like they should and I knew how they should do it. And so I went over there to straighten them out and then I come out being chairman of Intergroup.
It was an accident. I didn't know it was election night. I really didn't.
And I I come out being the chairman of Intergroup and the next thing you know I got sent down to Dallas and my wife had picked Benoy to be her sponsor and she was going to Dallas the same way weekend I was. I'd met Jim and Benoy over at the corn husker roundup several years earlier and I ended up asking Jim to be my sponsor and uh things changed. I mean we started doing things that I'd never done before.
You know we started working out of the book. We started doing the steps the way the the steps are supposed to be worked out of the book as far as I'm concerned. and uh got actively involved.
I'd already started the group, that recovery group, but Jim just just added a punch to it and the next thing you know uh I mean it came to me it came in I had to come to a decision I was going to hang around AA or else was I going to get in it. It was that simple. I'm going to have to do something here because I can't I couldn't just hang around.
I had to start doing something different. And uh I ended up uh uh getting that group started and Jim began to be my sponsor and and we oh just like you guys we started shaking hands. We had greeters at the doors and there's like other groups going YOU GOT GREETERS AT THE DOORS.
YOU KNOW WHAT ARE you making those new guys doing? You make them you making those new guys do things that they don't want to do. you know, well, you'd ask this new guy, do you?
One night we had these guys, we got like eight or nine guys living in a house and this we had a district meeting and district's main co topic of conversation was these eight or nine guys that was living in this group house that was owned and operated by the recovery group, which is a lie. I mean, the eight guys rented the house, you know, and the sponsors was making them do it, you know, it's like, no, and and the people that was living in the house was there that night and they say, "No, that's not right." And there was people just saying how it really was. And here you had the people who were living in the house saying how it was and it was just, you know, it's aa at its finest.
You know, it's just insanity. And uh uh finally what you have to do is just get to the point where you do what you know works. And it works.
It works really well. I like activist AA. I love it because you know people people get here and they get better and and at first you may not feel better but you begin to act better and it's like getting better in every way every day.
The next thing you know Gerald's deal works you know. And so what happened is uh uh we got that little group started and I I've always been pretty fortunate. I sponsored several guys and and u u got that deal going and I sponsored a bunch more.
Good to see Wayne here. You know, Wayne was this case of all all of his own when he got here. Uh he wasn't very happy after six years.
I get a lot of guys with some time that that aren't very happy come to Alcoholics Anonymous. And it's fantastic because what happens is the same thing that happened to me is all of a sudden the light bulb switches on and uh things begin to be an attraction and u uh I got to see my sponsor Richard. He uh he caught lung cancer and died.
And I was there the night he died. And Jim Shaw, he caught lung cancer and he died. And uh it's a it's a this sponsorship thing is an amazing deal.
It's it's like Wayne said yesterday, it's it's not who your sponsor is so much as who you make him. And I got to see that. Uh um I I'll never forget this as long as I live.
Uh Jim was living in in Palm Springs and and uh when he when he died and and I was lucky enough to be there the weekend that Clancy and Jim and and oh uh can't think of the other guys that celebrated 30 years that year. There was a couple others. I can't think of their names.
U Clint Hodes was one of them. I can't think of the other. But anyway, and uh Jim was just I mean he was a great big man and all of a sudden he's a you know all canned up and he's thin and he's uh just weak and and sedated and and uh he's got his little coat on and his tie is undone and Clancy dries up outside and Jim sees him out of the corner of his eye and all of a sudden Jim struggles up and he gets up and he puts his coat on, straightens his coat on, straightens his tie up and he walks to the door and he says, "My my sponsors here, you know, and there's just new life and it was because of what Jim made him, what Jim made sponsor or what Jim made Clancy to be.
And and I mean, not that Clancy is not, you know, he's he's something else, but it's how Jim looked at it and I could see that. And for the next three or four days, Jim was a totally different guy. He was his old self again.
And it was a blast. I mean, you know, and he told me, he says, he says, he got me in the back room. He says, "John," he says, "uh, this is before Clancy showed up." He been thinking, he says, "Uh, I'm not going to make it." He says, "You need to get a new sponsor." And, uh, he said, uh, the guy's name is, and he he was heavily sedated.
He'd go, he'd just go down like that. And I, Jim, Jim, then Jim, oh, oh, yeah. He said, and he says, "Uh, I I've been thinking about you and and you need to get a new sponsor and and you don't have to do this if you don't want to, but his name is Jim.
Jim and And goes, you remember his life?" HE GOES, "HE was okay." He says, "It's that guy down there in Nebraska, you know." And I went and asked Dick to be my SP. I'd already asked Dick to be my sponsor. I didn't have the heart to tell Jim, but and Dick says, "My god, Scott, you're a carrier." He says, "I don't know if I want to ask you or I want to do it or not, but he he accepted the he accepted the challenge, I guess." And so, he's been my sponsor now for the last five years, I guess.
And and he's helped a lot. I mean, um he's he's been a great gift to my life. And Alcoholics Anonymous is just a phenomenal place.
You know, I I came here just hoping to get sober and I found out that it's way way more than that. And you want to be careful about your home group because what you have here is very, very important because if you're an old guy like me, one of these days you're going to wake up and your daughter's going to be raising her hand for the first time as an alcoholic. And you're going to be awfully grateful that she has a place to go where recovery is happening, where there's enthusiasm, where there's activity, and where she can be fairly safe from those guys.
Not that that works wonderfully around here because we are sicker than most. But the thing is that the thing is that at least you got a chance and and uh that's what we owe these folks that come behind us. We we owe them the opportunity to recover as we have and uh what we're doing is not lightly taken.
It is absolutely paramount for people of alcohol uh people who have alcoholism because uh without this there's not a shot. I mean, they've tried everything for thousands of years and nothing works for us. And this is not that good.
But by golly, at least it worked for like me. A fruitc cake like Wayne, you know. Wayne and I can make it.
Anybody can make it, you know. And there's a few of you here that uh you know, but uh uh you know what what a what a you know what a gift we have here. This this thing called Alcoholics Anonymous.
Um, I uh I was going to talk to you a little bit about uh the allergy of alcoholism. And if you're new here, maybe this will make sense to you because I had a hard time with allergy. I mean, even though I was allergic to apples, bananas, and cherries and still am.
Uh I uh I couldn't get it through my head about the allergy and and about social drinking and about how that works and plays into this point. And if you read the doctor's opinion in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, he does a really good job of explaining it. And what I what I what I found out is that there's a big difference between my problem that I have with alcohol and the problem that I have with apples.
And that is is that I have never ever gone home mad and angry and upset and decided that I was going to go and buy myself about six apples. And when I get those six apples, I'm going to hide two in the in the trunk. I'm gonna drink or I'm gonna eat two on the way home and when I get home I'm gonna eat two out of them right in front of her.
I didn't I just never have done that. That has never occurred to me. You know, I have never had, you know, whenever I whenever I went to my doctor with this problem that I have with apples and I said, you know, look at here's what's happening.
The newest person in this room can tell me exactly what the doctor said. Don't do it anymore. You know, I didn't have to go to aa Apples Anonymous.
I didn't have to do that. All I did all I did was I quit. I just quit.
I never I have never woke up in the middle of the night thinking, "My god, I need an apple." I have I have I have never sat there at supper and I've looked across the table and saw people with fruit salad going with a tear in my eye. I could have had some of that if I wasn't allergic to apples. I have never done that.
And that even crosses my mind. But with alcohol, it's a totally different story, ain't it? I sit there and I look across the room and I see those people over there drinking that wine and I go, "Oh," you know, I mean, just, "Oh," you know, I could have some of that if I wasn't an alcoholic, you know, and I'd sit there and I'd look at those people and I just get, you know, wave after wave after wave of self-pity comes over me and I kind of like self-pity a little bit at first, you know, and and what I found out was that uh if I think just a little bit, if I use my head just a little bit, I hate wine.
I always hated wine. You know, my deal is give me some uh whiskey. Give me some good whiskey, you know, and two at a time and keep them coming, please.
And and why would you have a sip of wine? Why would you want to have a sip of wine or two sips or a glass or two glasses? I had friends that had four or five beers in their refrigerator and I would not go to their house cuz that's all they had.
You know, why would you bother with two or three beers? See, I'm an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. I'm a guy who once I start to drink, I cannot quit.
And when I start drinking, I run everybody away from me just as hard and as fast as I can. I can't hold a job. Uh I can't hold a family.
I can't love kids. I hated my kids when I was drinking. I couldn't stand them.
Uh I uh I I told you I loved them. I tried to act like I loved them. But if you was looking at me from the outside, you would know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I didn't love them because my actions my actions showed everybody that I absolutely despised them because they were slowing me down.
just like she was slowing me down. Just like my work was slowing me down. And if you was a friend of mine and you couldn't keep up, you was slowing me down.
And I I didn't have no friends. Why would you, you know, I just didn't have friends. I had people that I drank with.
That's what I had. And uh you know, and I'll sit there with a tear in my eye, look over there and see those people having that wine, and I'll think, my god, why can't I have a drink of wine? And I have to think past that.
I have to think on, you know, I have to think on past that first drink and see where it takes me because I know where it's going to take me. It's taking me to the same place it's always going to take me. I was telling somebody right before the meeting got started, my old sponsor, Richard, used to say, "Let's just stay in here and be real stupid.
Let's stay in here, be real stupid. We'll let them smart guys go out there into that research and development department of Alcoholics Anonymous, and we'll see how they come back." And they always, you know, it's like we say in our home group, our scouts always come back with arrows in their butts, you know. So I imagine your scouts are probably the same way.
A few of you have scouted yourself. But uh the the thing is is that uh this has been an absolute phenomenal gift to me and my family and the people around me. Uh my mom is uh my my my family, my immediate family, my mom and my dad have always supported me in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Uh my mom one time she says, "I am so thankful that you quit drinking." And I says, "Well," she said, "Do you remember the time that I drove up to the mailbox?" Cuz I I didn't answer the mail. I don't know if when you was new, if you answered the mail too well. I just hated mail because I was always wanting money, you know, and I didn't want to answer the phone and I didn't want to answer the door.
But my mailbox was down the road in front of my mom's house. So I'd have to drive down there to get this mail. And so I went down there one time after I'd been gone for about a week and Cindy had been gone for about a month, I think.
And we were not going to the same places, different places. And and um she said I I said, "Mom," I said, "I don't know. Somebody broke into my house and they stole all my guns." And she says, "Well, my dad or your dad and and I have taken all your guns." And I said, "Well, why?" She said, "Well, we're afraid that you're going to kill somebody." I said, "Mom, if I'm going to kill somebody, this is what I'm going to use right here." you know, and and I could just remember that look of despair over her face and just, you know, and they tried they tried so hard to do something for me, but they didn't know what to do.
They didn't know what I was what they didn't know what was going on. They thought I was crazy. I was hoping I was crazy.
If I'm insane, I can go to the nut house for a while. They'll give me some downers or uppers or whatever they give you that makes you feel good for the, you know, for the next couple of days. And after I get out of that place, I can drink.
But if I'm an alcoholic and I admit that I'm real alcoholic of the hopeless variety, then I have a solution in my life and I don't want that solution because the solution is you don't drink. And if you want to stay sober and enjoy life, then not only do you not drink, but you go to Alcoholics Anonymous. And I finally I finally through resistance, I finally got to the place where I found out it's always better for me to go to meetings because tomorrow I'm going to feel just a little bit better.
Just the opposite of drinking. Whenever I was drinking, I knew that tomorrow was just going to be a little bit worse. And now when I go to AA every night, I know that tomorrow's going to be a little bit better.
I found myself uh here in in January, uh I I had a bad motorcycle wreck a couple years ago. I uh running some cattle and and uh just wiped out. Dang there killed myself.
And ever since then, about every six months, I get this uh uh physical and trying to piece me back together again. and and in January uh uh we found out that I had cancer and uh well that'll get your attention I'll tell you what right now you know you think you're living in you you're thinking you're living one day at a time try that on for you with a mind like me you know the guy says bring your wife so I brought my wife I knew it was bad when he says bring your wife you know they don't say bring your wife it's good you know and so I brought my wife and we sat down there and what I heard him say was that you're dying of cancer and you're probably not going to make it more than about 45 minutes. But that's what I heard.
I mean, and I I mean, I just, you know, I walked home. I went down and got in the car and I said, "Well, I guess I'm not long for this life." And she says, "What?" I said, "Well, I'm dying. I got cancer.
I'm dying." She says, "That's not what he said." Said, "You'd probably be all right if we do this and this and this." And well, he was just giving it a little at a time, you know, and or whatever. Anyway, we had a in in Jan in February, I had a operation and and I'm just now getting over it. And I'm I'm amazed that I was able to talk this long without having to run to the bathroom.
And uh uh because my plumbing ain't quite right yet, but probably more than most of you really wanted to know. But uh but uh you know, the thing was that I had letters and cards and calls from one end of this country to the other. I uh I mean I really did.
It was amazing. I mean it's absolutely truly amazing. Uh I had uh I had Cindy sponsors a bunch of them sick alien non-nons and they they were bringing me food every day to make sure I didn't g up.
You know they was afraid I'd lose weight and I just got fatter and and uh uh you know what you know they just treated me right. And the people that I sponsor, they they come by and give me meetings and they took me around to different places when I couldn't drive and and uh well I you know that's that's cool stuff. That's cool stuff.
Uh my sponsor called me every day. That was different and uh wanted to know how I was doing and I and I mean he just choked me up when he do that. Uh my kids want to know how I was doing.
My wife was there loving me. My mom and dad come up from Texas and uh they uh they took care of me. My wife is working for H&R Block.
I picked a great time to go down, you know, and uh uh you know, and it's just wave after wave of gifts, gifts from you guys, gifts from the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. This is from a guy who who can't hold a job, who hates his wife and kids, who can't stand his wife, who wants to get rid of her family, just absolutely just drove them to the edge of the earth. And I didn't have any friends.
I mean, this is who I am now. Now, you can call it anything you want to, but I'm going to call it the power of the program of alcoholics anonymous because in here, if you stay here and you do what the book asked us to do and you simulate some kind of interest for a period of time, all of a sudden one day some goofy newcomer will come up to you and ask you if you can be their sponsor. And uh if you're like me, the first 15 I sponsored, I killed them all.
They all went out and got drunk in rapid succession. And finally, well, I was going to be kind. I wasn't going to be cruel like my sponsor.
I was going to, you know, try to help him do the four step and all that stuff. And and uh finally this guy comes up and asked me to be a sponsor. And I told him no.
I told him no. Now my sponsor Richard had already been gone. And uh and all I could hear in in my head was the answer to any request was always yes.
And I knew it was a yes. And I walked out the door and I turned around right here and I says, "Yeah, I'll be your sponsor, but by God, these are the things you're going to do." Blah, blah, blah blah blah blah. He says, "Okay." And he's still sober today now.
I don't know. I try to run him off and they stay sober and I try to love them and they go get drunk or something. I don't know what the heck.
Uh, it's a crazy place this thing we're in this alcoholic synonymous. And it needs to be because look at who's around, you know, look at who you're sitting next to. If you don't think that um there's some there's some uh there's some great gifts that we have here and and I think the biggest gift that we have is the message that we get and and we need to share the message.
We need to give it as fast and as hard as anybody will take it. Uh uh the young ones, it's good to see all the young people here because I tell you what, when I was about uh well I wasn't even as young most of you guys. I still drink it.
But whenever I was in my 30s, I mean, I would I would take this message of alcoholics anonymous as I interpret it, gospel according to John, and I'd sit there and say, "This is what's supposed to be going down." And I just kind of spoon feed it to them, you know, until they the eyes roll around in their head and they finally, okay, I get it. I got it. Just anything to shut me up.
And but to to finally get to the place where you find out that uh you don't know is a great place to be. uh to find out that I can live. I can truly live one day at a time.
To be in the here and the now is a special place to be. You know, I was always so intimidated by my past about how it would it it it should have been or I mean, you know, about the guilt and self-pity and remorse that seems to hang back there. And and then I' I'd go back there for a while.
And I'd live in the future about how I'm going to go Brook tomorrow, how she's going to leave me tomorrow, how those kids are going to be tomorrow. And you don't have much relief at either of those places in the past or the future, either one of them, because God doesn't live in either one of those. Where God lives is right here, right now.
He's right here, right now. And if I can bring my head, like my sponsor used to say, bring my head where my butt is. My butt is in the right here and right now.
And if I can bring my head where my butt is, all of a sudden I'm in God's time. And when I'm in God's time, there's nothing that can go wrong. There's nothing that can go wrong.
I'm It's as good as it gets. And that's one of the things that's the biggest gift that I've ever received here is being able to live one day at a time, being able to be in the here and the now. Especially in the last several months.
I mean, it's been it's been absolutely critical for me to live in the here and the now. And u I I just want to tell you guys, thank you again for letting me be a part of your deal. It's a absolutely phenomenal thing that's happening here and it's fragile and don't think it's not because uh all you got to do is quit doing what you're doing and if you got a mind like mine it'll convince you that this is the wrong thing to be doing.
My sister one time I tell you one more story and I'm going to shut up. My sister had a store a few years ago. If you don't think this thinking is fragile and she uh she asked me to help her run it or I volunteered.
I can't remember which. It's hard to tell. And the story was kind of going bad, you know, it was going downhill.
When I got a hold of it went downhill like that and uh I was sponsoring this guy and uh he was a rich guy. He had lots of money and he would spend his winters in the Central America and had a little place down there. I always thought I always had in my hand, you know, I'm going to sponsor the guy and he'll take me down there for winter vacation.
And I sponsored him for about three weeks and he called me up one day and says, you know, I'm not going to do what you do anymore because uh you guys are over correcting. you're doing too much. And and uh he he was a heck of a salesman.
And he started explaining to me in a way that I could even hear about how we were doing too much here. And I kind of got to and I hung up the phone and I got to thinking about it just rolled around in my head all day long like it will, you know, and I had told my sister uh ear after that I talked to her and I told her I says, "I'll tell you what I'll pick you up for lunch today and I'll take you out." Because she was depressed. I mean, she was depressed.
She she's not one of us. She was really depressed. She wasn't one of those, you know, we we get depressed, so we, you know, give me something for it so I feel better.
And she was absolutely over the over the top. I mean, she was lifeless and she hadn't laughed in days and weeks and months. And and I picked her up and I took her out and I said, you know, Maggie, I was talking to this guy this morning and, you know, it just made so much sense.
And and I think the truth of the matter is is I really wasn't that bad. You know, I don't think I drank that bad. if if anybody went through the stuff that I went through during that period of time, they'd acted probably like I acted.
And right there at the end, I said, "I just kind of got, you know, I was weak and they got a hold of me and made me go into aa, you know, and she started laughing. She hadn't laughed in months." And she started laugh. She got laughing so hard she started yelling at me to get to the filling station so she can run in the bathroom, you know, and she's just down.
I mean, she's just down laughing and I can't figure out what to wrong. And she goes in there and she comes back out and she's still laughing. And finally she calms down.
I said, "What in the hell is wrong with you?" And she says, "You don't remember, do you? You are a crazy sobb. You're just crazier than I thought you was, aren't you?" I said, "What are you talking about?" She says, "You don't remember, do you?
Every single day for the last four years, you drank and you drank as much as anybody. We were so afraid that you was going to kill somebody or kill yourself. And you sit and you don't think you was that bad.
My god, what does it take?" And oh well, I guess I'll go to a meeting tonight, you know. I mean, you know, and if you're here for a few years, that only that took place at 11 years of sobriety for me. So, so, you know, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, sometimes not at all, I guess.
But the truth of the matter is there's no place I'd rather be. And I'm just I just excited to see this happening like it is here. And I want to thank you guys again.
Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.
Until next time, have a great day.