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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> The format is a closed step meeting. It uh says here it's been um append appendixes or whatever it is.

It says to read in sequence from the 12 and 12 or big book and open for discussion. So um I'm going to read out of both actually. I know some people don't necessarily like the 12 and 12.

I love it. Some of it. Some of it I don't understand, which was much like the big book when I first opened it.

Um, you know, I'm going to have this commitment for about 12 weeks thereabouts. I'm going to try to stick with the first step for the first two weeks cuz there's other steps down the road that uh be able to cover both of them in one week. like six and seven and eight and nine are really kind of joined together as far as I was taught and the way I work and um let's start out you know um forward to the first edition of the big book.

The reason I stick to the big book because of the steps is cuz it's pretty clear. It states in here a couple different times and this is the first one. And it says to show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book you know and um I don't know more meetings I go to the more I realize a lot of people have never read the book so it's good to do it in this kind of sitting for me I'm going start out in the doctor's opinion I'm not going to read entire chapters and it's just um gets redundant at time I'm not going to spend too much time talking to myself I like to like to get group activity for myself.

I like to hear other people's experience as well. But um you know the first step says that we admit we were powerless over alcohol that our lives become unmanageable you know and it was pointed out to me pretty recently actually that there's no and in there. It's a dash you know it's you know it's a two-part thing to admit I'm powerless over alcohol and to admit that my life is unmanageable.

You know, I I've heard a lot of different things in the rooms. And you know, my experience through taking people through the steps, that second part can mean just about anything. You know, it comes down to certain certain things.

And the way my sponsor taught me is it's managing the decision to stop. You know, I can't manage that decision. I can't I can't manage my own life no matter what's going on.

you know, I've sponsored guys that that are next to homeless. And I've also sponsored guys that that work, you know, 40, 50 hours a week, pay their bills, and, you know, and do pretty good, you know, but uh they just can't stay stopped, you know, and I believe that's why we're here to learn how to stay stopped, you know, throughout my uh throughout my my drinking and I've done a lot of other things. You know, if you guys are still getting hung up on words, I don't know what to tell you.

Maybe you're not done yet. But uh I can substitute words easily you know and um I came to Alcoholics Anonymous and it worked basically for everything. So, you know, um for myself, it uh you know, I I I've tried stopping many times, you know, and I've been able to a few different times actually stop, you know, and and you know, it just didn't last, you know, some sometime down the road something just wasn't going my way and uh you know, I picked up or things everything was going my way and I picked up.

Either way, it was just I found some reason to pick up again. And um you know, I think that's one of the biggest problems is that uh you know, that we can't stay stopped. Um another reason I'm going to stick with that the first step for a couple for at least two uh two meetings is because I I I think it's important especially a lot of the stuff that's in the big book about uh about what it is.

What is you know what what is an alcoholic? Why, you know, why am I an alcoholic? And why do I believe that I'm an alcoholic?

And I believe it's for two different reasons. One is when I drink alcohol, when I put it in my body, you know, something happens where I want to drink more. You know, it's an allergic reaction as it talks about in the doctor's opinion when I want to read, you know, and and it's something I can relate to.

So, I've been allergic. I I have a condition called allergic rhyionis or rionosis or something where I can become allergic to just about anything. If you know I smell a flower, I can touch you know bread and it'll be I have an allergic reaction and it changes you know but one thing I've always been allergic to is poison ivy.

You know I can be like 10 ft away from it and I break out. It's you know what I mean? That's you know and and that's no big deal because you know I I just don't go near it.

I can see it from 10 ft away and I don't go near it, you know. But I have the same allergic reaction, the same type of activity happen in my body when I drink alcohol. Yet, I can't stay away from it, you know.

I don't have an overwhelming obsession to roll in poison ivy. I just don't. So, I'm going start out here in the the doctor's opinion.

We're going to talk a little bit about the uh the first part of it. It says here it's about four pages in. I don't know which I got a third edition, so it's not going to match the fourth, but it's about three pages in.

It says the first paragraph says, "We believe and so suggested a few years ago that the action of alcohol in these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker, you know. Um that's uh that sums it up really quickly right there that it never occurs, you know. So if you're one of them people that you know it's it's a simple question you know when you drink can you guarantee how much you're going to drink you know every single time you know and not just that one or them couple times you know there's been plenty of times in my life where I've had just a couple drinks went home you know but that one or two times and 20 times whatever it may be for any individual if that happens that says here that that never occurs in the average temperate drinker.

Um, these allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all. And once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it, once having lost their self-confidence, the reliance upon things human, their problems pile up on them and they become astonishingly difficult to solve. Frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices.

The message which could interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight. In nearly all cases, their ideals must be grounded in a power greater than themselves if they are to recreate their lives. Um, this is uh this is my second time around in AA.

The first time I came in, uh, I made it uh about 11 months, 10 11 months. I'm not really sure. I wasn't counting.

It wasn't that important to me then. Um, but some of the things I heard and tried to grab a hold of was, you know, the meeting makers make it, you know, a step a year. you know, take your time, don't rush into anything, you know, and um I don't know, my experience, my personal experience and my experience watching others is, you know, after a couple months of hanging out at AA without anything changing, you know, the newness wears off, you know, that desperation goes away, that urgency to change, to get better goes away.

you know, um I heard a guy say it once, you know, being a drunk and not drinking, you know, not drinking is just better than being a drunk. It just is, you know, it's just when that newness wears off, when that uh that obsession comes back, you know, and it's going to talk about that in this next next uh thing I'm going to read. It's at the bottom of that same page.

It says, "Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that while they admit it is injurous, they cannot after time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one.

They are restless, irritable, and discontented, lest they can again experience a sense of ease and comfort, which comes at once by taking a few drinks. Drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, the phenomenon of craving develops.

They pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over. And unless this person can experience an entire psychic change, there is very little hope of his recovery.

Um the restless, irritable, and discontented, you know, they're the things that that is what I felt. You know, a good portion of my life as far back as I can remember. I just, you know, I I was never satisfied with myself was where I was at, what I was doing.

I wanted more or something different at all points in times, no matter how good it was going or no matter how bad it was going. You know, that's the discontented, not satisfied. You know, the restless, you know, I couldn't sit still.

I couldn't sit in any one place. I couldn't concentrate thoughts, you know. It was I was just racing.

Everything was just, you know, and it took a while, you know, to get that peace of mind back, you You know, it took me a little longer than just having, you know, a bright white light experience. It took a little time of of practicing certain things on a daily basis, you know, before I my mind settled a little bit. You know, my mind still races.

You know, the the major difference is it races positive. You know, I'm thinking of what I can do for somebody else. I'm thinking of what meeting I'm going to.

I'm thinking of good things now. I don't think of, you know, maybe I should throw this rock through the window, you know, or throw a rock at a car or, you know, some of the psychotic things that used to go through my mind that I don't even know why, but sometimes I still do. You know, I tell people all the time, if you knew what was going on in my head, you'd probably have me committed.

Um, irritable. It's another one. You know, was able to keep my cool most of the time.

I'm not an angry person. It's kind of relaxed, laidback, but I was irritable. You know, I any one little thing could happen.

That's it. Sets me off. You know, times where I just couldn't stand being around anybody, you know, and all these things, you know, taking a couple drinks, anything else for that matter, would calm it, you know, it make me feel better.

Be able to relax a little bit more. I'd be able to go out into the world. I'll be able, my mind would slow down a little bit.

you know, be able to go out and talk to people, hang out, and, you know, just made me feel better for some reason. And I learned that long, way, way back, you know, that's what kept me going back to that to that drink, you know, no matter what happened. My first experience with alcohol, I was a mess.

Me and a couple friends stole a big old jug of wine, drank the whole thing, made asses of ourselves. I got so sick. It was unbelievable.

I got grounded for like 3 weeks, but I did it again. You know, the thing, you know, it's, you know, me and Max talk about it and I've heard other people talk about it. You know, something about us, you know, we just, we don't learn from our mistakes.

You know, the bad things that have happened to me because of drinking I don't learn from. You know, that's why I don't, you know, necessarily hold to the scaring people into into staying here. you know, war stories and stuff because, you know, if the consequences of my drinking couldn't keep me here, how's the consequences of somebody else's drinking going to keep me here?

You know, and I've heard about DUIs and killing people and and blood and this and that. And it's just like, uh, you know, that keeps me out of here, you know, cuz I wasn't that bad, you know. I mean, I I've gotten in some trouble with the law, you know, but never that bad, you know, and um, so for me it was it was very important.

And these are the the little things that I can relate to. You know, that that discomfort, just that inner feeling of discomfort that a couple drinks takes care of. You know, the problem is I can't have a couple drinks.

I have a couple then I have a couple more then a couple more and then you know, God knows what's going to happen. Now, there is a solution though and it starts starts talking about it early on in the book. It says, "On the other hand, and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despared ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules." Um I had my my best experience with the book actually at a big book meeting two people were chairing it and uh this is where they started you know they started out in the beginning they went through the whole book and one of the things the lady was was really hitting home on was the must and the rules you know because I heard it you know there's no rules in AA you don't have to do anything it's all suggestions you know and and it's true you don't have to but if you want sobriety If you want the promises, if you want what you know, AA offers, there is, you know, if you want to if you expect to get something out of this, there are rules, there are must, there are things that we have to do.

You know, I didn't just come to a meeting, sit here and, you know, talk about my problems and everything got better. You know, I came in, I I did things. I got a sponsor.

I did what he told me to do immediately. Not next week, not a, you know, when I got around to it, immediately. It was the most important thing to me, you know.

I did not want to go back to where I came from, you know. Um I don't know that how that happened. That's one of the mysteries to me that I wish I I wish I had like a a certain sentence I can say to somebody that can have them experience that feeling of, oh my god, I I can't do this anymore, you know, because that's what gave me the desperation to do what I had to do, you know.

Um bottom of that same page says, "I do not hold with those who believe that alcoholism is entirely a problem of mental control. I have had many men who had, for example, worked a period of months in some problem or business deal, which was to be settled on a certain date, favorably to them. They took a drink a day or so prior to the date, and then the phenomenon of craving at once became paramount to all other interests, so that the important appointment was not met.

These men were not drinking to escape. They were drinking to overcome a craving which is beyond their mental control. You know, and that's just what I was talking about that for whatever reason, you know, the same thing with me.

I, you know, I just didn't feel comfortable with myself, my own skin, you know, I never felt I fit in anywhere, you know, and that carried over when I walked into the rooms AA, you know, because by the grace of God, I walked into the rooms AA, the my neighbor at the time was an AA, you know, and he was um very adamant about the steps in the big book. the first people I met and they they were very adamant about working the steps, having the psychic change, the spiritual awakening, whatever you'd like to call it, and and they were very very into it. And um you know, so for myself, I just didn't fit in.

I hadn't worked the steps. Nothing had changed. I was just not drinking.

You know, I wanted to, trust me, I wanted to drink, but I didn't. you know, and I didn't for a a good period of time before it was just, you know what, I had a choice to make whether to go to the bar or go to an AA meeting and the bar just, you know, sounded better, you know, and um I don't know, it took me a while. It took me till I got back and learned a little bit more about, you know, alcoholism itself and the solution of why I stayed this time and why I didn't last time.

you know, um, this book in the next couple chapters really gets into difference between a hard drinker and an alcoholic, which was something that really opened up my eyes to something. And um, you know, I always wondered I had friends that I used to drink with, man, that that um, you know, drank just like me, if not worse, man. I know I had guys that blacked out every freaking time they drank.

They were a mess, you know, but uh they're not like that anymore, you know. I always wondered why that, you know, why not me? Why when these guys got married, why when they got that good job, why, you know, when the hit the fan, why were they able to stop?

Why why can't I stop? You know, why do I keep getting in trouble and coming back right back to where I left off? You know, why do I keep picking up the same bottle that burned me two weeks ago, you know?

And it talks about it right here, bottom of page 20. says, "Modderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.

Then we see have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time.

If a sufficiently strong reason, ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate. Although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention, you know, and and that that's it right there. People that drink just like me, they're able to stop.

Why? Cuz they're not they're just not me. They're not alcoholic like me, you know.

They're hard drinkers, you know. on it. Next paragraph.

But what about the real alcoholic? May start out as a moderate drinker, may or may not become a continuous hard drinker, but at some stage of his drinking career, he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption once he starts to drink, you know, and doesn't say anything in there about drinking every day. Doesn't say anything about there about waking up shaking in the morning, you know.

It it just says very simply, you know, he might not become a continuous hard drinker. But we're just not able to control how much we drink, when we drink, you know. Um, I know for myself, I could answer them questions easily, you know.

Can I think it's in the beginning of uh we agnostics, it's the two questions. um says, "If when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic." And it's as simple as that. And the questions that I could have answered when I was probably 17 years old, you know, because there was times that I could not control how much I drank, you know, I didn't want to quit then, so it would have been pointless.

But I could have answered that part of the question, you know. I couldn't answer the second part, you know, because I still believed that I could quit on my own, you know, that I could stop drinking on my own. And um you know I believed that for a long time you know I believed I believed that up until the point where I realized I couldn't stop you know and uh after a for a while you know was the the second part of it the thing that people told me was going to happen to me is that I was going to think that I was all right you know and um I took the suggestion that's in this book that says if you don't think you're an alcoholic go out and try some controlled drinking you know and that's what I did and it took me eight months you know, and and you know, another court case to get me back to Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, and um I swore, you know, I that was it for me, you know, I did not want to experience that anymore.

And I was I was scared, you know, I was truly scared to to end up like that. I mean, it was true living hell day in and day out for me. And um you know, it's it's I don't suggest it to anyone, but you know what I mean?

It's something that I had to experience to get to the point that I'm I was at where I was willing to say, "All right, maybe I do have resentments." You know, I can remember I met Doug my first time in AA. He was friends with my first sponsor. And I was supposed to be right in the forstep.

It was pretty it was funny because he was one of the he was probably one of my first resentments in AA because uh you're sitting there and he said something my sponsor said something to the fact about the four step resentments and Doug said yeah I didn't have any resentments when I got here either I wasn't mad at anybody and I was just like yeah that's me and he said boy was I full of and I was just like no not me you know and that's just you know that's where I was at you know I forgave everybody I wasn't resentful you know I forgive people for what they did to me. Wasn't until later on I realized that had nothing to do with it. That was my major problem is what they did to me is what I thought was wrong.

You know, I had to learn that it wasn't them, it was me. And um I'm going to read a little bit out of 12 and 12. Two of the things I really like.

And you know, I know I don't know, you know, what the case was when Bill wrote this. I've heard so many different things, but you know, I know he wrote it in the the ' 50s and it was after some experience, you know, and it says, the first paragraph says, "Who cares to admit complete defeat? Practically no one, of course.

Every natural instinct cries out against the idea of personal powerlessness. It is truly awful to admit that. Glass in hand, we have warped our minds into such an obsession for destructive drinking that only an act of providence can remove it from us." you know, and this after 15 years, you still the same thing.

You know, it hadn't changed that. You know, I hear about raising the bottom. You know, I don't, you know, I believe we can get people to believe they're alcoholic, but to get people to believe they can't do it on their own, that they don't need the spiritual, you know, awakening, the spiritual experience to quit drinking for good is difficult, you know, and for me anyway, it still is.

bottom bottom of that same page it says, "We know that little good can come to any alcoholic who joins AA unless he has first accepted his devastating weakness and all its consequences. Until he so humbles himself, his sobriety, if any, will be precarious of real happiness, he will find none at all. Prove beyond beyond doubt by immense experience." This is one of one of the facts of aa life.

The principle that we shall find no enduring strength until we first admit complete defeat is the main tap routt from which our whole society has sprung and flowered you know and um I've heard it a few times and I I kind of agree with it that that you know it's the one step you got to work perfectly the first step you know and um I agree. I got sponsores right now that are struggling that you know that I did the same thing with them that I did with somebody else and everything seemed just about the same and for I can't figure out why they can't stop why they can't stay stopped and you know it's that it's that one thing I keep coming to you know I was talking to a guy today I said until you realize that putting that first one in your body isn't going to do any good it's going to do nothing but bad until you accept that you know it's you're going to keep doing it you you know, because it's just one of them things, you know, it's feels like absolute He knows, you know, one will fix that for now. And that's all he's looking for is that for now, you know, and the next day he calls me and everything's worse than it was the day before.

So, it's really he's accomplishing nothing. He's just digging the hole and digging the hole and, you know, I was the same way, you know. I was exactly the same.

I didn't care. And a dear friend of mine that's sick right now, you know, that I, you know, I got the utmost respect for. never been able to do that to know just one will fix it, one will make me feel better right now or I can go another couple days feeling like this.

You know, I've never been able to keep that one. You know, it's always if one will fix it, I'm going to go do it and tomorrow I'll start over again, which never came. You know, tomorrow never came.

I don't think it ever comes for any alcoholic. But the last paragraph or the last two paragraphs of the 12 and 12 talks about the bottom says why all this insistence that every AA must hit bottom first. The answer is that few people will sincerely try to practice the AA program unless they have hit bottom.

for practicing AA's remaining 11 steps means the adoption of attitudes and actions which almost no alcoholic who is still drinking can dream of taking who wishes to be rigorously honest and tolerant who wants to confess his faults to another and make restitution for harms done who cares anything about a higher power let alone med let alone meditation and prayer who wants to sacrifice time and energy in trying to carry AA's message to the next sufferer no the Average alcoholic self-centered in the extreme doesn't care for this prospect unless he has to do these things in order to stay alive himself. Under the lash of alcoholism, we are driven to AA and there we discover the fa fatal nature of our situation. Then and only then do we become as open-minded to conviction and as willing to listen as the dying can be.

We stand ready to do anything which will lift the merciless obsession from us. You know, I know for me, you know, it was it was difficult. It was difficult to come to that point where I was willing to work these steps, you know, and that's, you know, it talks about it and how it works.

We read it all the time. It talks about it over and over in AA, you know, the willing to go to any length. Well, what is any length?

Any length is to go through these 12 steps. to do that to admit our faults to sit down to write out the four step to go through all this you know and and to continue to do it it's another one you know because today I still realize you know I was told to keep the same amount of willingness you know as I had the first day am I as willing today as I was the first day I walked into these rooms you know when I walked in hands in the air saying I'm ready you know I I'm just just what do you want me to do you know I've heard Alcoholics are defiant people. That's not the case with me.

Was not defiant when I walked back in here. I was sweetly willing to go to any length. I didn't care.

I didn't care who was around and what they were doing. You know, I was going to a meeting. I was going to another meeting.

I was getting a sponsor. What he told me to do, I did, you know, no questions asked. I picked the biggest, toughest, meanest looking guy in the room at the time for my sponsor, you know.

And he was actually pretty lenient with me, you know. I don't know if I was easy, which I think I was. I've I've gotten one sponsor sponsor that I can relate to that was just like, "All right, let's do it, you know, and did it.

No questions, no, well, you know, maybe it's just whatever. Okay, sounds good. Let's do it." And boom, you know, and it's difficult, you know.

I work with guys all the time, you know. It's one of my that's one of my favorite things to do is help others, you know, and I do it because I realize my life depends on it. My sobriety today is based on what I do today, not what I did yesterday or last week or not what I'm going to do next week.

You know, I stopped, you know, planning out and telling you guys what I'm going to do. You know, I did that all my life. I'm going to do this so, you know, I'll do this and I'm going to do that.

And I've never met up, you know. I've just, you know, and it just digs myself in a hole and it makes me feel like crap. You know, I found through my own experience and just basic new experiences with the book and new experiences with my own sobriety and with and with God.

You know, I didn't can't say I didn't believe in God when I walked into these rooms, but I didn't think he wanted anything to do with me. You know, I didn't even know what or how. I I went to church when I was a kid, and that's where it ends.

You know, my mom prays. She told me to pray. You know, when something was going bad, you know, when somebody died, it was, you know, they're with God now.

And I was like, "Oh, okay. Sounds good, you know. Let me get a drink, you know.

And I walked in and it was just I started to look at my life, you know, sober, my head clearing up, started looking at my life and realizing that I knew that there was somebody there. I've always known my whole life that there was I wasn't alone. It wasn't just me in them bathrooms.

It wasn't just me, you know, in them dark rooms. It there was somebody something somebody else. I did not feel alone, you You know, and that's that inner feeling that I got, that guilt, that shame, you know, you know, somebody knew, somebody saw what I was doing was ashamed, and I was ashamed of myself and what I had become, you know, and the only thing that would take that away was a drink.

It would fix that temporarily, you know, and it' always come back and the only thing that would fix it is another drink, you know. And um when I finally wanted to stop, you know, and couldn't stand doing it anymore, I I found that I couldn't, you know, and that's I I I had my first experience after I'd been an AI and I'd been through the steps and I honestly was able to look back over my life honestly, you know, and look at all the times that I really really wanted to stop and couldn't, you know, and realize the true meaning of powerless, you know, that that it's not up to me, you know, that I have lost that, you know. Um, last thing I'll read out of the book, you know, and it's it's what it is for me.

It's that powerlessness. I think it's 34. Um, pretty good.

I don't have everything memorized, but I know that uh a good portion of the book. Oh, never mind. 24.

It's in italicity. Somebody told me that's means it's important. I don't know.

I know it's different than the rest of the words. says, "The fact is that most alcoholics, for reason yet obscure, have lost the power of choice and drink. Our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent.

We are unable at certain times at certain times to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of a week, even a week or a month ago, we were without defense against the first drink, you And um I don't know, I wasn't uh I'm not a road scholar or anything, but I it didn't take me to get to AA before I learned that if I don't pick up the first drink, I won't get drunk. I I realized that, you know, I appreciate the wisdom, but I that was common sense to me. You know, my problem was p not picking up that first one, staying stopped for a period of time, you know, and getting, you know, coming to AA, I tell you what, ruined a lot of my drinking, you know, because I heard the promises.

I had a a dear friend of mine that I grew up with who got about 18 months more sober than me, you know, and his life had made a complete turnaround, you know, and and was going great, you know. He came to AA, he got hooked up with the right people, he got sober, he got happy, and he began to put a life together, you know, and and I was resentful and jealous at him for years for it, for a year and a half, you know, because I saw it. I saw what could happen by coming here, you know, and I wasn't here and I wasn't doing it and my life just continued to be crappy and get worse, you know, and um he only talked about, you know, one basic thing.

That's the solution, the 12 steps. You know, when I got sober, that's all he talked to me about. Every time I talked to him, you know, I wanted to talk about this, that, the other thing was, what step are you on?

You got a sponsor. Okay. What step are you on?

Where you at? You done? you know, you're done with your fifth step, did you do your four step yet?

What step are you on? You don't want to say through how many spons you got your workman guys yet? You chairing meetings yet?

You doing this yet? You know, and he held me accountable. I'm grateful for that.

You know, he might have saved my life, you know, cuz I'm lazy and I don't like to do anything. You know, I didn't want to do this. I didn't want to I I don't want to do anything 90 95% of the time, you know.

I won't lie. I won't, you know, I I want to help newcomers. I want to help others.

But that day, that one day that the guy calls me, I say we got to meet at 4:00 and he calls me at 3:00 and he wants to do it. 90, you know, most people don't call. So I I look forward to that not calling.

I can go fishing or I watch a game, you know, but when they call, it's like, oh man, you I take this guy through the steps. He's not even going to stay sober, but I do it, you know. And I found my experience in Alcoholics Anonymous is that I'm sober today because I did the things I did not want to do, you know.

I didn't come here and say, "Oh, wow. That looks like fun." I didn't want to do it, you know. I stay here, you know, because my life depends on it, you know, because I do not want to die, you know.

I do not think I can linger around the outskirts of Alcoholics Anonymous, not doing anything, and stay sober. I don't think I can do it. I know others can.

I've heard them talk about it. You know, I know people that come into this very room with 15, 16 years and still haven't worked the steps and they'll tell you about it, you know, but everything I've read and everything I've learned in Alcoholics Anonymous tells me that that's not an alcoholic. If you can stay sober without a psychic change or a spiritual awakening through the work of the 12 steps, you're not an alcoholic, you know.

And I've heard it time in and time again, you know, and it makes me nervous, you know, because it's been taught to me and it's my experience that without what happened to me through working these steps, through having a change of perception, through looking at things different. Heard Doug mentioning, I think he was talking about what somebody else said is, you know, what is a spiritual awakening? You know, it's looking at something you've looked at before and saying, "Oh, wow.

I've never looked at it like that." You know, and it's that simple. You know, this is Pompo. This is where I came when I came down from New York.

This is where I drank. This is where I drugged. This is where I committed crimes.

I did all that stuff here. You know, Papo hasn't changed. You know, I could I still go up and down the same streets.

Nothing's changed. Some of the same bars are there. You know, I've changed.

The way I look at it has changed. you know, I'm grateful for what I've learned here and and some of the people that have come and taught, you know, and told me, you know, I I I don't obsess over it. I don't want to drink anymore.

I don't know why that part of it I can't explain. Tells me in the book is because I've worked the steps and had a psychic change. I can't really explain that in my own words.

Not yet. Maybe in a couple more years, but for now, I'm happy with it. You know, I'm okay with it.

I'm okay with not wanting to drink anymore. You know, I'm okay with doing what I do on a daily basis. And you know, I work with people that are extremely active.

You know, Kenny will tell you, me and him, you know, if the requirement of my if my job required drug tests, me and Kenny would be the only two guys that work there. And that's serious, you know. But does it bother me?

Not really. You know, it bothers me that some of the people that don't find the rooms cuz they're going to die. But for the most part, it's like, you know, it's how I was.

and people loved and tolerated me. You know, now it's my turn. So, with that, I'm going to open up the meeting for discussion.

Some of you guys talk some. And uh >> thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day.