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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Welcome, welcome, welcome. My name is Chris Ramer.

I'm a very grateful recovered alcoholic. Honored to be honored to be here. >> That sounds like my knees.

Oh my god. I never I never intended to get this old. I uh I am honored to be here.

I you know, y'all hear every speaker, they say the same thing. But I mean, this has been a cool thing. We got a chance to come in a little early and got a chance to spend some time with my with my brother and from the podium which is always fun for us to do.

And uh I got to tell you, it used to be back a gazillion years ago when we speak we it was you could a couple hundred dollars would get you anywhere. You know, you could travel around and and the tickets and of course the expenses have just gotten so high and I know anybody in this room that um contributed and and you know spent their hard-earned time and money to get us here, thank you so much for doing it. That's been the honor.

I Who would ever have a chance to come see this part of the world? Uh what a great uh chance this was. And uh and to eat that fish.

That was pretty good fish. And uh I don't know. We're going to have a chance to uh to uh pay you back in uh international AA conferences in San Antonio.

I live down there next year in in the in July in the heat of the summer. And y'all can come down and have heat strokes on us. And this is good.

Whoever arranged the rain this weekend, I want to thank from the bottom of my heart cuz we just stood out there like this and says, "God dang, it's just rain." You know, I said, "We don't see it in Texas right now. We're in the middle of a big old drought." So, this is just it's been a hoot to uh um to be here and and uh hospitality is great. Mark picked us up and and I somebody else picked up Myers.

It doesn't matter, but I think he's taking us back to the airport in the morning, so I guess it does matter. Thank you. Thank you.

It's just an honor, guys. And um u I don't know. Great hospitality.

Y'all y'all outdid yourself. And uh that's what this is about. I think I um I got to give you my little 10-second disclaimer cuz I sure want to Some of y'all were at the workshop that we did this morning and and had an opportunity to spend a little time with us.

You kind of know where I come from. Some of y'all have heard CDs of mine. I I've been sober about 21 years and been speaking from the podiums dang near that that long.

And uh those little CDs travel everywhere. And it's like you pick them up and you either like them or you hate them, I guess. But um I I I want to tell you I want to share some of my experience this this evening with you for an hour.

And I I want to talk to you about my my trek to Alcoholics Anonymous and and what happened to me and I'm going to share my experience and it it absolutely could be different than your experience. And and if and if that's the case, then so be it. I'm Boys, just like Myers said last night, I'm not here to argue with anybody.

Bless your hearts. If if if you came to AA and you've been going to meetings every day since you've been sober and you're still sober and you've never worked a step, you don't even own a big book and you're happy, joy, and free. Rock on.

How cool is that? Um, try not to say anything in meetings and kill somebody, you know, there. I uh I know he died twice, guys.

cuz I nearly died getting to Alcoholics Anonymous and once I got here I nearly died again. And uh uh I I work in a treatment center. I I I do I do clerical work for a big hospital down in Texas and uh we treat a lot of people.

We treat about 1,00200 people a year. Uh it's and and and I get to see a lot of cats, alcoholics and drug addicts alike come through that hospital and and I got to tell you guys their faces when they walk into that place and realize it's a 12step based hospital, they are pissed. everybody, you know, sticks their head in the sand and think that everybody's happy in AA land.

And I got to tell you, there's a lot of people out there that don't like us and don't believe it'll work. Of course, when you talk to them and you ask them some specific questions like, "Did you ever work the 12 steps?" "No." Then shut up. Let's maybe we could have a new experience.

And I guarantee there's people sitting in this room that have been around for years and years, have never worked the steps. Rock on. I I'm saying it again, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

You see? Yeah, I am. Listen.

No, I if if somebody wants if somebody comes to our fellowship and they really don't want to stay sober and they don't work the steps, that's their right. If somebody really wants to stay sober and we don't tell them about the steps, shame on us. And that's what happened to me for seven years and alcoholic synonymous.

And everybody wants to take exception with that. They don't do it here. They wait till I get home and they email me.

I pass out little business cards and they email me. You know, I think surely that in seven years of going to meetings that you just didn't want to stay sober and I think you're arguing with my experience and you can't do that. I'm not up here to lie to you.

I'm telling you what happened to me, the little the little oneeyed guy. So, let's move on. We think it we think that the alcoholic knows what to the questions to ask.

You you come here and and and we love on your little neck and we say the Lord's Prayer and we and we slap you on the ass on the way out and say, "Keep coming back. keep coming back. You know, it works if you work it.

But we didn't tell him what to work. We didn't tell him why do we want you to keep coming back. If meetings treated alcoholism, we would have a much better success rate.

Meetings don't treat alcoholism. I'm not knocking meetings, but we have a thing called a fellowship and we have a thing called a program. And you combine the two things.

What we've been doing here out there drinking coffee, way too much coffee. and we and having a good time and laughing and joking and went over and ate some great sandwiches yesterday and got to visit. This is the fellowship and it's the absolute coolest.

But the fellowship alone, if you happen to be the real alcoholic that Bill Wilson's talking about, won't get you sober. It can it can keep you sober for a while. We can just sit on your for for long enough to keep you dry for a period of time.

But eventually what happens is the pain of not drinking one stupid long boring day at a time will finally reach up and grab you in the butt and you will drink. Guys, alcoholism and drug addiction both are the same in this one area. It's fatal and it's progressive.

Alcoholism, you got to have this physical craving means I can't guarantee you how much I'm going to drink. This time I'm just gonna drink one. And it's my intention to do that.

But I can't just drink one cuz when I do the craving kicks in now sometimes sometimes I can. That was what was so frustrating about it when I got to AA because you're telling I I can't relate to this every time you drink cuz I'm a functioning alcoholic and there's many times that I set out to drink two or three drinks and drank two or three drinks. What the book says is that did this craving ever kick in?

you follow. Did it Did it ever get away from you and you ended up drinking more than you intended? You couple that craving that physical that every everybody understands that you little alcoholics need to not drink cuz when you drink the craving kicks in and you're off to the races.

But what they don't understand is I've also got a mental insanity. I'm crazy around alcohol. The insanity of the first drink because of the way I'm wired genetically.

I can't guarantee you that I won't change my mind downstream. two weeks sober, six months sober, two years sober and decide. I hear it all the time.

I decided to take a drink. No, you didn't. You got caught in that middle blank spot and your head said it would be okay for you to drink.

Even though you had a thousand examples to show you shouldn't. I'm on probation. I'm going to go to jail, but I drink.

You're fixing to get lose the kids to child protective services, but you drink. You're going to tell me these people chose to drink. This is what makes this fatal, folks.

You can't rationalize it around it. You got too many people in Alcoholics Anonymous and I'm telling you from the podium thinking that this is some kind of self-help program. It's not.

Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob, you know, these first cats that got together, they they busted their butt for about four years to write this book. The collective wisdom of a whole bunch of people dying and and 12step work and trying to figure out what worked and didn't work and they put it all down in the thing called a big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

So what? So we could set it on the counter and set coffee on it and talk about our days. That's what drives me crazy.

I got to give you a little quick story. The um and I think it'll put it in perspective. I'm coming back from uh I don't know some place over in the in the on the West Coast, Seattle or something.

It was early morning. You know how you get on the planes and the first one on freezing in there and first flight out. And I'm sitting down and my prayer is when I fly is is not that we don't crash because I know God's got me.

I mean, if we crash, we crash. That's just the nature of the beast. I ain't going to feel anything.

But but my prayer isn't that there won't be any little kids sitting next to me. Y'all follow. I don't have a problem with little kids except that they they have a problem with me and I get them since this Pirates of the Caribbean crap came out.

See, I know you I know you feel my pain when I'm saying this. We we got the little the little beggars all lthered up with this pirate stuff. Now all of a sudden, you know, you can't get near one without this this pirate stuff.

And I Yeah, you can laugh cuz you don't have to put up with it, but it drives me nuts. And I'm And I'm sitting there and I don't have any little kids and I don't know what to do. Where do you put the damn batteries?

And and how do you take them out other than that? And I I please God, please. I got an iPod years ago.

I won one. And so I mean that's it's God's gift to Chris Raymer. And I I can zone out.

I'm reading a book and an iPod and I'm telling you I'm sitting here in a seat and a little guy is sitting this little guy sits down and I can't I didn't see him. I didn't hear him. I smelled him and I was a little kid, you know, and oh man, 7 years old little skinny guy just like I was when I was a kid like that and I smiled and he looked up and didn't smile, you know.

I I I freaked him out and and and so he's just kind of sitting there and he's looking really uncomfortable and the winds blow, the air conditioner's on like that. He's freezing his butt off and he's looking around because he doesn't know what's going on. I says, "Buddy, you want me to turn that air off?" And he looks up and he just he says, "Could you?" And I turn the air off.

We got started flying. And anyway, the the the flight attendant comes by and a big, you know, some peanuts and some orange juice and and I'm reading and listening and noticing in my little head that he's watching me. He's not really actually watching me.

He's watching my peanuts and my orange juice. You follow? Freaking me out.

Like, and I'm watching this. Y'all realize I'm saying I can't see out of this eye at all. You guys could be naked and I wouldn't know it.

Well, maybe I would. Naked and on fire. And I'm But this little G and I'm and I'm He's got my curiosity now and I'm like I'm looking at him and he's looking at my drink.

I said, "Little buddy, do you want an orange juice and some peanuts cuz he's looking uncomfortable and I said he says he got that little look on. He said, "Yes, but he says I don't have any money." Yeah. Listen, I don't like you, little guy, but I'm going to take care of you.

I'm, you know, my heart melted. Kids get under my skin. And I mean, I tell you, I got the flight attendants jumping.

He had a pile of potatoes big enough to choke a horse and and we we got just everything that he needed. Orange juice. You want one like this?

And I got the little big grin on his face. My new best friend. Y'all understand?

This is exactly like Alcoholics Anonymous. This is exactly what happened to me. I'm seven years in Alcoholics Anonymous, and I don't have a clue what you people are about.

All you got is a bunch of stupid oneliners. Did he say that from the podium, halftruths taken out of context, and a whole bunch of of of horror stories? And and I and I don't understand this.

I want to know if I can get up in the morning ever in my life and not want to take a drink. But we're not going to talk about that because we're too busy trying to fix your relationship again. See, we assume that the little newcomer knows what to ask.

And when they're uncomfortable, and they don't, they just sit there, nod their head, and smile just like I did. Listen to one more war story of yours. Oh, how fascinating to hear about your DWI one more time.

And then one day I just sit out in the parking lot in my truck and I can't get out and I can't come back in because I ain't going to sit there one more time and listen to that stuff again. And I go out and I drink and I come back and of course it's my fault. Well, you just didn't want it bad enough.

Excuse me. Did anybody ever tell me how to get sober? Didn't even know what a big book was.

Now listen, I'm preaching to the choir. I've talked to a bunch of y'all this week and a lot of you guys are doing the work. I know some of you are fidgeting in your seats right now.

I'm going to tell you something, folks. Worldwide, AA's in trouble. Worldwide, people are not staying sober.

Worldwide, people that had long-term sobriety are losing that sobriety and coming back into treatment. Man, I've been at that hospital 16 years. We used to didn't see anybody with long-term sobriety come back in there.

Now all of a sudden, I bet a quarter of our patients in there had 10 plus years of sobriety and have lost it. Why? Because the people simply stopped doing the work out of the big book, stopped working with others.

They got sick again. This thing called a spiritual malady, guys, is as real as it can be. And if you're an alcoholic, you you're you're going to have this spiritual malady.

That's what brings me back to the drink. Big book talks about it on a couple but dozen pages, but especially in the doctor's opinion up front and on page 52, it talks about irritable, restless, and discontent. How many of y'all can get down with this when I'm not drinking?

You with us? I'm I'm I'm a couple of weeks sober. I'm a I'm a two week wonder, guys.

I've done it a thousand times. Oh my gosh. I can stop on a dime.

Good-looking girl like P. I was just fixing to quit cuz I can quit. I can detox quick and I'm and I'm done.

And two days later, hot damn, I feel great. I'm at the gym again. I've signed up for another health club, you know, that I'm never going to pay off.

Oh my gosh. I've cleaned the apartment. I've done everything.

I've got the call. You with us? Oh, I should have done this years ago.

This sobriety is the bomb. You follow? Tick tick tick.

The further away I get from that last drink, the more uncomfortable in my skin. Y'all understand? Two weeks out, I'm irritable, restless, and discontent.

and the depression starting to creep back in and the anxiety, the tension. I'm a little little jumpy, a little quick. You know what I'm saying?

Boredom, anxious. I'm I'm starting to have trouble in personal relationships. Myers was talking about it so beautifully last night when he talked about having this, you know, stuff at home and I'm just a little little cranky with everybody around me and I'm, you know, the I don't know how to explain this.

Y'all know the expression like being hyper vigilant. It's like all of a sudden you're just like waiting for the next big shoe to drop and bust you in the head, you know, because something's fixing to happen. This internal discomfort, folks, is why we drink.

Nobody wants to talk about it. Today, what we're doing now is that's why we're seeing so many people relapse. They're going to the doctors for pills to treat that.

I don't know what's wrong, doc. I'm 16 years sober and and I'm so depressed. Oh, you're suffering from clinical depression.

Here's another pill. Or could it be that you're suffering from untreated alcoholism? You think not drinking treats alcoholism.

It doesn't. Alcohol treats alcoholism. Can you Can y'all get your little mind around that one?

This is not the problem. This is the solution. That's why it gets crazy when I hear somebody in a meeting say, "Just don't drink and go to meetings and everything's going to be okay." If you happen to be a moderate drinker, it will be because alcohol is your problem.

If you happen to be a hard drinker, it will be because alcohol is your problem. If you happen to be the real alcoholic, you ain't going to live because alcohol is not your problem. It's the solution and you're going to come unglued at the seams.

That's why we got to recover. Bill Wilson paints this picture that you could recover from this seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. How cool is this?

So that the obsession goes away and the depression lifts and you get taken to a completely different place. That's called the spiritual experience. Everybody wants to make fun of it.

Everybody wants to poo poo it. Oh, don't talk about God. You might scare the newcomer off.

Oh my gosh. We give them all these mixed messages. It just it just absolutely slays me.

Let me tell you what happened to me. I'm a a professional chef and uh went through my apprenticeship in Houston uh Texas and uh and was pretty good. I wasn't worth a poot at school, but I was um uh I I was excellent at this at the food business and uh and was pretty talented and started making a little money and was hired at jobs that that a little skinny guy from Texas shouldn't have been hired at.

And uh it was I was I was I was was pretty cool for a while. And I'm drinking with the chefs and everything's okay. You know how when you first start drinking everything is good?

You know, every every time you drink it's a party. If you drink long enough it'll still be a party, but there's going to be some consequences to pay. And if you drink long enough, it'll just get to be a pain in the butt.

That's what the book talks about. You're going to reach a point where you can't imagine life living with it. And you can't imagine life living without it because it's the only thing that makes me feel okay inside.

There was an old kid and I went out on um uh out on the Guadalupe River and laid up against one of those big old 700 year old cypress trees and cracked a bottle of Boone Farm Apple wine. And Do they have that in Canada? >> No.

>> Huh. It's good. It's like hummingbird juice.

All it is is it's just it's just real sweet. It'll get you really really really really really really drunk. But we we we that's what we did.

We laid up against this this side of this old old cypress tree and and I put a pull and he put a pull and and he didn't like it and I put another one and he took another one and spit it out and he says, "Man, this is screwed. I'm not going to do you." And I said, "Let me get this straight. You don't want any more of this is is what you're telling me." And he said, "No, I'm done with that." And I finished that little bottle.

I didn't get drunk. I didn't get out of control. I didn't black out.

I didn't wet my pants. Didn't do anything goofy. You with me?

I walked a quarter mile back to my little house on Goat Creek Road, comfortable in my skin for the first time in my young life. I found the answer. I was never comfortable in my skin.

I uh I had a long period where the drinking worked just like that with me and allowed me to succeed in that business. as it as as I got older and the disease continued to progress, uh it got less and less likely that it was going to work and the the cravings would kick in and I would end up drinking way too much and I'd come into work all hung over and it started to affect my career. And there were even drunk you European chefs that were notorious alcoholics that were pulling me into their office and and giving me the talk.

You know, it's like, "Buddy, you got a great future with us in this hotel, but you're going to have to reel this drinking back in cuz you're you're freaking us out." and uh and they were my mentors for heaven's sakes and uh and I would stop for short periods of time and then I would start it again and right before you fired me I would quit and that's the way I stayed ahead of it and I changed careers and I changed jobs in the mid70s I started seeing counselors and therapists for this cuz this depression was kicking my butt at a sooner at at a point the alcohol will stop working and it's just and it that's what it was doing with me and uh I'm drinking to stay alive I'm drinking this to kind of get well but I'm it's not I'm not it's not doing what it used to do So, the counselors, of course, are trying to take care of this business and giving me the stuff I need and and every other one are giving me another diagnosis. I was talking to some of you this today about the diagnosis and and I'm not knocking any of that, but uh my problem was not bipolar disorder. It was uh alcoholism.

It doesn't sound quite as good. My problem of clinical depression was not it was alcoholism. Adult attention deficit disorder, borderline schizophrenia.

I mean whatever I mean the the the the diagnosis dour and we're still doing it out there trying to treat the symptoms of the problem underlying was alcoholism. So I'm taking these medications. I'm taking seven pills a day and um I leave uh Houston.

I go up to North Texas to be closer to Myers and them and I'm working in a in a in a in a a country club up there. Turns out the country club guy is a is a alcoholic drug dealer and it wasn't a really a match made in heaven, you know. And uh and I get drunk and uh really really uh off the page and uh my wife decides that she didn't want to be married to somebody like me and she packs her stuff and goes back to uh to Houston and um I move in with my brother of course thank God for family or I'd have been on the street and I continued to drink for five more years and uh some crazy stuff started happen but by the time I started to move in with him I started going to Alcoholics Anonymous on a regular basis to try to get well the problem again is that I was getting mixed messages just I'm going in and of course everybody's so damn nice you know I mean there's not a lack of love in our fellowships and I'm grateful for that and Chris sit down and get you a cup of coffee and you know and here's we'll go around the room and we'll start talking and everybody's sharing their little stories and and but I'm getting conflicting information you with me this guy over here says buddy what we need to do is get you a big book and start doing you the steps so that you can recover and this guy over here's nodding his head like that and says no go like this don't listen to that you'll follow I'm lit I can see it like it was yesterday.

You don't need to do that. All you need to do is 90 meetings in 90 days right now and everything's going to be okay. 90 meetings in 90 days.

I can see on the steps back over there. You got this little four-step stuff, a little inventory and some amends and 90 meetings in 90 days. I can do that.

I don't need to do that step stuff. He told me I didn't. You'all follow?

But I'm the real McCoy, folks. And I can't stay sober going to a meeting. Oh my god.

and I'm relapsing and I'm coming back and I'm relapsing. I'm coming back and when I'm telling you I'm going to stay sober, I mean it. And I think I got the power to do that.

I think when I screw up all of my energy and all of my willpower that I can stop. When I told that woman on her way out, I'll stop. I promise you.

I wasn't blowing smoke. You know, our families, I know we've got some family members sitting in here. They they don't believe that.

But I'm here to tell you, I I I wish there was something I could say to let them know that when we told them we were going to quit, we meant it. We weren't blowing smoke up anybody's butt. When I told that judge that I wasn't going to drink anymore, I wasn't lying.

I meant it with everything in me. I didn't have the power to pull it off. Everybody's talking about alcoholism and drug addiction as as a as a disease cuz you're an alcoholic.

You have a disease. That's why you can't stay sober. And yet we talk about it like it's a behavioral problem.

We'll stop going to places where they serve alcohol. Well, I work in a place. They serve alcohol.

Well, how bad do you want to stay sober? You need to quit. Why?

The restaurant didn't get me drunk. I got me drunk. Y'all understand where I'm at?

Oh my gosh. This is what we're trying to do. I made some innuendos today about that stupid living sober uh book.

If any of you guys have got it, I'm telling you, it'll confuse the daylights. Don't give it to a newcomer. If you give them that, don't give them the big book because it'll just confuse them.

Oh my gosh, I hate that book. I hope somebody in New York hears this. I hate living.

sober book. Oh my god. We've tried for years to get them to stop publishing it, but they they they won't.

So, there you go. I um in uh I'm in and out for seven years. Uh I can't uh I can't stay sober.

I picked up more desire chips than you can shake a stick at. I was talking to some people today that had had a bunch of relapses like that. You know, at a certain point, you just lose hope.

you know, be you start thinking it's just you and you can't you can't do it and and um uh don't let me back up for a second. Don't get the idea that anybody in there is trying to hurt me. I mean, every person in Alcoholics Anonymous, every person from was was bending over backwards to try to help me.

The problem is is they they tried to they tried to simplify it to such a point that it won't work. Let me I used to be a a cyclist and I bought a bike when I first got sober and some of my heroes in the program were big bicyclists and and we went to all to the bike shop together and they and they said, "We're going to fit you out in a bicycle." And so I got a bike and and the guy that was selling me the the the bike, he looked at me and of course any of youall could see I look like a little bird. I'm a little skinny guy and all the guys I'm with are these big beefy, you know, studs.

I I don't know what to tell you. They're they're all just great guys, but they're all they're all bigger than me. And so and I'm sitting there, the little skinny guy, and I got those little stretch pants on looking really uncomfortable.

And he said, "Buddy, I'm going to do you a favor. I'm going to change your gear ratio around so give you some different gears than them cuz it'll be easier for you to to push." And I just thought, you know, that's such a great idea. Thank you for being that considerate.

Y'all follow was a death warrant to me. What they did was they changed the gears and I'm out there trying to keep up with these guys and they're pushing bigger gears. And it's not that I'm not trying as hard, it's that I don't have the gears to do it.

You with us? In an attempt to make it easier for me, they've in they've they've guaranteed that I won't get strong. The guy wasn't trying to hurt me.

He was trying to help me. When you got a newcomer in a meeting and you tell them to keep coming back and just go to meetings, you're trying to help. You're not.

Cuz if he's the realer alcoholic, he's going to die. In 1987, I'm still taking seven pills a day. I am uh not well.

Uh kidney damage and liver damage. That's a fact. And I'm puking blood from the alcohol I'm drinking.

And uh I'm working for my brother. Thank God. I've got a job and a little apartment that my sister-in-law co-signed for me so I could get in.

Now, I'm an accredited chef. I could make six figures, but we do what we do. And uh I come home one afternoon about 4:00 and overcast like it was yesterday out kind of drizzly and I picked up a 12-pack of beer and went up to my apartment and grabbed the mail and there was a stack of return checks in the mail and um oh my gosh.

And uh I knew that I'd done some damage. And I looked and the rent check had bounced and some personal checks to some people had bounced. And here I was again.

I'm 35 years old and I've bankrupted another checking account. And uh I am so sick of this. I uh my father was a wonderful man.

He was an alcoholic, but he raised a good kid. And I am not I am not that kid. I've become something that I don't like.

And um I'm not I I was sitting on the floor because I didn't have any furniture. I'll never forget. And uh I got up and fed the ferrets.

I had a couple little ferrets and uh I fed them big old sack full of food and went to the medicine cabinet, took a couple of bottles of pills down and tried to commit suicide. I I I'm a close family, guys. Lots of love in that family.

There was no there's no nothing romantic about this, you know. Goodbye. I just I didn't want to feel this way anymore.

I have let the world down so many times it's not even funny. And the biggest person I'm letting down is me because I really want to be different. I just don't know how.

I stood in front of that medicine cabinet and swallowed those pills down. And about the time they hit my stomach, I heard a voice that night that said, "Don't do this. Go back to AA." And I'm arguing with this voice.

I don't know what where the voice was. Wasn't in my head. It was a voice that said, "Don't do this.

Go back to AA. I don't want to go back to AA. Nice people.

I don't want to go back. I've talked about everything under the sun in those meetings and uh and it's it's it's obvious that you can't help me. Um I did make myself sick and I laid down on the bed and the next morning I got a doctor and I got some doggy downers and I started detoxing and at 6:00 that night I walked in the back door of an AA meeting.

Somebody said it last night. I think it was the little Alanon speaker, you know, the seeds that we sew, you know, and this guy that that worked with us in the book binder where Myers Myers owned uh had 12stepped me uh three years earlier. He'd sat down.

They used to laugh at me. I' I'd be in there shaking 7 o'clock in the morning shaking so bad, you know, and my would get on the PA, you know, can't, you know, attention cancel all Chris Ramer surgeries today. He's not seen up to it, you know, cuz I'm shaking so bad.

It was just a big joke to watch me spin on a spit until I could get to lunch and get some alcohol in me. And this guy 12step, he he'd been sober in AA for a few years. And he said, "Chris, anytime you want to go to a meeting where they talk about solution, go to this meeting down here on Main Street." and he and he made a point of saying that it was a nest of big book thumpers.

And I I made a mental note, do not go to this meeting because it's a nest of big book thumpers. And um and so y'all know how that goes. But it's 6 o it's 6:00 and I'm detoxing and I feel like like hell and I it's on the way home so I stop instead of going up to this other meeting where I know I can I can you know troll for a date maybe and get a little sympathy.

You know, I love that you newcomers are the most important person here. you know, just sit here and let us wait on you hand and foot. Oh my gosh.

And that wasn't going to happen at this meeting. I knew. But I I went there anyway and I walked in the back door and sure enough, it was just like what Myers described the other night and everybody six or seven cigarettes hanging out of their mouth and they're laughing.

I just having the best old time and they all had big books on their lap and I was so self-conscious. I mean, I just I I knew they were laughing at me and I'm checking my zipper making sure, you know, patch is always crooked, you know. I'm It's like it's the that's was always the big joke.

Chris, is that an ear muff or an eye patch? You know, it was always a little skewed, you know, and I had a big full beard like Myers and and uh it was always had, you know, some form of food in it, you know, and it was and I'm not bathing. I'm not feeding pregnant.

I don't have the money for clothes and I'm wearing the same stuff over and over and I'm just I'm I'm not a a very good specimen. And I walk in there laughing and I says, "I just can't do this." and says, you know, and my head says, you know, you can come back on Sunday when you feel better, you know, and it's like just like always, I've got an excuse why I don't need to do what I'm supposed to do. Everybody wants to get sober, guys, right up until the time you ask them to do something they don't want to do.

Have you ever noticed that? It's just or the first time somebody says no, then I then you're pissed and I'm going to do it my way now. You know, you're not going to get sober your way.

We ought to just get clear on that. God damn it. The book tells us we're going to have to do some things we don't want to do.

But I started to walk back and I and I stepped back uh to turn around and I stepped on a little girl at the foot. I was a little 19-year-old girl that got between me and the door. She wasn't there on accident carrying a cup of coffee buddies.

She positioned herself right between me and the door and hooked her finger in my belt loop and said, "Sit down, cowboy." You'll see how God worked. If it had been Mark, I'd have whipped his ass and left or died trying. You with us?

No. No. Bye-bye now.

But this was this this young girl that set me down. And this was no, oh hey baby. This was like it just took my breath away.

What are you doing? She wasn't off in some of those young adult meeting talking about young adult things. She was in mainstream AA doing what she was supposed to be doing, a servant.

Being a servant. Oh my gosh, I want to cry every time I think about it. She sat me down in a chair and got me a cup of coffee and everybody got me a bunch of paper towels to clean up the stuff.

They'd seen me in North Texas for years. It wasn't like they didn't know who I was. They knew who I was.

Welcome, Chris. Welcome back, buddy. And the chairperson, listen to this.

This is a good part. The chairperson, you're going to find this so hard to believe, took charge of the meeting. I don't want to puke.

We got a newcomer in here, you know, and he says, "We got a newcomer. Why don't we share some hope with Chris?" He looked kind of banged up. Why don't we talk about how our lives have changed as a result of working the steps?

That wasn't the exact format of the meeting that night, but he knew what needed to be done. And they I said, "This ought to be good." Those people went around the room, guys, and I'm going to tell you, there was 40 people in that room in a long shotgun, and everybody was smoking. And they went around the room, and they only shared one thing with me.

They only shared one thing, and that was hope. Not one person told me about their stupid DWIs. Not one person tried to scare me in the rooms with some some some frightful thing that's going to happen if I don't stop.

They talked about getting their credit cards back. They talk about getting jobs and and and getting promotions and having kids and and and doing some cool artwork. They talked about the cool stuff that you could do as a result of working the 12 steps.

As a result of didn't didn't mince any words about a spiritual experience, not as a result of coming to 90 meetings in 90 days. As a result of working the 12 steps, this is what's happened in our lives. Oh my gosh.

I I hear people from the podium all I don't remember my first meeting. I remember that meeting. It took my breath away.

For the first time, a room full of people started to do what the big book asked them to do. They started pulling me with a vision of how cool life could be in sobriety. I got people in here rolling their eyes now.

Well, it's not all about that. Yes, it is. It's not about not drinking one day at a time.

It's about having a cool life, about recovering. This guy came up after the meeting. He said, "Chris, are you done?

You picked up a desired chip, but I got to ask you, cuz the book asked me to ask you, are you done?" And after some conversation about what one day at a time meant, I said, "Yes." They said, "We're going to show you how to do this. We're going to show you how to have a changed life. The next day they were on my doorstep knocking.

Somebody followed me home that night to make sure I made it okay. Somebody went out of their way to follow me home to make sure I was okay. And the next day that same kid was on my doorstep making sure I was back at the 10:00 meeting cuz they knew I wasn't coming back.

Y'all follow? I was going to make another excuse why I couldn't come back. Maybe Sunday I'll come.

You knocked on the door. They drugg me back up there like that and I was okay. I went to the meeting and it was another cool meeting and we talked about some miracles.

It was a pretty cool thing. People say, "Wow, you think AA should be a pep rally?" Yes, I I do. Our meetings are I'm sorry that your formats don't allow that, but our meetings don't allow the other kind of meetings to take place.

Oh my gosh. It was a pep rally and I said, "Man, this is the coolest." We got in the back room. They said, "Chris, you got a problem with God?" I says, "Absolutely not." Guys, I used to eat out of dumpsters in Houston, Texas.

I knew there was a God or I would have died. you as I'm fighting a cat for my chicken. I can assure you I I knew that there was a power watching out for me.

I didn't have a problem. And we didn't sit there and say, "Well, go read these two chapters and let's make a list of what you think God looks." They said, "Do you have a problem with God?" No. Let's get on our knees and do a third step prayer where we're going to ask God to be our our director and our our father and then that God's going to remove the difficulties to show you and so that you can come back in and help us carry the message of hope.

How does that sound? That sounds like a great idea. We got on our knees and did a third step prayer.

Went and got lunch. Came back. They gave me a notebook.

Says, "Let's start working on that old fourth step." That's a little quick, don't you think? He said, "All right, Chris, just start making a list of the people you hate. Can't you do that?" He said, "Yeah, I Yeah, yeah, and your name's going to be the first one on there.

Y'all need to hear this. These guys understood. Like, I'm not knocking this.

These guys understood what this is about. And I know some of you didn't get 12step this way and you've managed to stay sober. Like again, I'm proud of you.

But what these guys understood was is that selfish and self-centerness is the root of the problem. And if Chris Kramer didn't get busy and get out of his stupid little head, he wasn't going to stay sober. Y'all understand that?

Self-pity is what kills alcoholics. Everybody wants to talk about resentment, but it comes out as self-pity. Poor me.

And and and it's not safe for I'm telling you, self-pity was my problem in 1987. And 21 years later, 55 years old, self-pity is still my problem. And I got to stay out of it.

And that's why I continue to work the steps. And these guys knew that. They had me.

Chris, we need somebody to answer the phones tonight. Well, you answer them then, buddy. If you need somebody to answer the phone, Chris, what are you doing?

You got something else to do? No. I'm going to go to the 6:00 meeting, then I'm going to go home and lay down.

Well, it's fine. Come to the six o'clock meeting. You can help us answer the phones.

Big. It was a big club at their AA club and the phones never stopped ringing. And the person that was supposed to answer him was sick.

Couldn't do it. They wanted me to do it. You with us?

Been around AA for seven years. I knew the drill, buddy. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know if I can do this or not. I don't know.

What do I do? He says, "Buddy, they're just usually looking for a meeting schedule. Answer the phone." And the But the phones rang.

Ding right there. And I'm sitting there like, "No." And they just went like this. Phone rings.

Well, follow. It's it's it's put up a shutup time, guys. It's time to stop talking about wanting to get well and getting well.

And we we got way too many people out here taking care of business so that nobody else has to do anything. It's time to let everybody participate. They got me a job.

I said, "Shit, what do I do? Just it's this is they answer the phone the way we showed you. Answer the phone." Turns out I knew the person on the other end of the phone.

That's how God works. Oh my gosh. I said, "Buddy," he said, she said, "Is that you?" I said, "Yep, it is." Got sober.

You know, I'm not 20 hours away from a drink and here I You know, but I'm I'm Yep. No, right where I'll be waiting for you out front. It was the wife of a guy I used to drink with and she was coming to an aline meeting and she knew where the place was, but she was afraid to go in by herself and so there I was.

And I stood out there and I waited for it and I took her back in there. Y'all with us? Walked back up to that phone room, had a had a little jacket.

I pulled up the pants a little bit. I nailed it. I took care of it.

Don't worry about it. Oh my gosh, guys. See, that's what this is all about is that all of a sudden I started feeling good about myself.

You guys sitting there talking about going in the mirrors and doing positive affirmations. Listen, you think that'll make you feel good? Go ahead for that little parlor trick.

Why don't you go actually try to be of service to somebody else and see how that makes you feel? The little guy comes up to you and asks you to sponsor him. Don't say no.

I haven't been sober long enough. Oh my god. The book says say yes.

And you better hurry and finish the steps before he does. >> >> You don't want you don't want to look stupid. I guarantee you I got to tell you.

And that's the difference. Two weeks in, I'm sitting on the tailgate of my truck and it dawns on me that the obsession to drink is lifted. I mean, guys, I'm a cat that couldn't not drink.

And here I am two weeks in. I'm working the steps. You with us?

I'm I'm doing some little service work here. I've got a completed four step. I haven't dumped the fifth step yet.

Haven't done six and seven. No amends have been made. You with us?

But I'm but I'm doing the some disciplines of 1011. They're teaching me how to meditate and they're talking to me about this daily daily inventory thing that we do. And and I'm trying to be of service wherever I can.

Chris, can you help us vacuum? Yes. Chris, can you make us coffee?

Yes. Been a taker. And all of a sudden, I felt a part of a fellowship.

What had happened, folks, is that I'd landed in a room full of people that didn't give a rat's butt. How I felt. They landed in a room full of people that were crystal clear in the work and understood that in order to feel a part of this, I was going to have to be a part of this.

I've been on the sidelines looking in all my life. Oh my gosh, the obsession lifted. And that was 21 years ago, guys.

And the obsession has never come back. I've been some good days and some really horrible days. been through a divorce in in sobriety with a 14-year-old stepson involved and I got to see him this last weekend and got have to look up to him.

I wish I hadn't said all those mean things and um we had a hoot and we had a just a great visit and he's turned out to be a wonderful kid and and it how cool to be a part of that but it literally killed me when I got out of that deal when I split. But I got to tell you guys, there were some days in that thing and my father died and went I that I didn't want to live that I just felt so beat up, so banged up. But not once did I want to drink.

And that's what a recovered alcoholic looks like. The book in the front says, "Are you willing to go to any lengths?" Talks about in chapter 5. What does any lengths look like?

It means let's work the steps. The steps were never intended to be worked over a long period of time. This is triage.

It's it's point A to point B. Work the steps. We want to make it so complicated.

I was talking to Pam earlier. You know, I don't care how you work the goddamn steps. I don't care.

I you you want to do a three column inventory on the four step. You want to do an extended four column. You want to do an extended eight column.

I don't care. The problem is not that you're doing it incorrectly. The problem is that you're not doing it at all.

Make sense? It's this is not rocket science. Bill Wilson's in town's hospital on his ninth day of sobriety.

He's making amends letters from the hospital when he has his barn burning spiritual experience. Everybody thinks Bill Wilson had this barn burning experience and then did this did this a thing. He's doing the work and he has his experience.

Dr. Bob the same way. Bill D number three the same way.

I mean, this is how we do it. And now all of a sudden, we've gotten so smart that we can tell everybody to slow down. Take your time to do the work.

Maybe you have time. Maybe your disease hasn't progressed that far, but but but the little guy you're working with, he may be at endstage alcoholism and he doesn't have time. When the obsession comes back, he's going to go use.

There's nothing wrong with our fellowship, folks. We've got all the love we can handle. What we need is some folks carrying the message of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Real quick, and I'll wrap this up. I got a I got a uh when I was 14 uh down on Goat Creek Road where where my and I grew up uh was sitting out underneath of one of those old trees where my pop's dad used to drink and uh he was a nice old drunk quiet and uh he wasn't there that night and uh I just remember I was about 14 years old and I don't know where Myers was but I'm out there by myself under the tree and I'm crying. Big old full moon coming up in the Hill Country and I'm crying.

I was 14. I'll never forget it. And I just I'm so lost.

All of my friends are planning to go to college and my little sister is a is a terrific artist and we know she's going to skyrocket in the business and and she everybody seems to have some direction and I am rudderless. I don't know. I'm a photographer and I do some things on the side, but I'm just I I feel so empty inside and I don't know what I want to do and I'm 14 and I'm I'm not happy.

I remember my mom came out and she snuck up on me. this not intentionally. She startled me.

She got up there real quick and she saw that I was crying and she said, "What what is wrong with you?" She said, "And I just I tried to explain to her and I just don't feel I all I want in this world is to be needed. I just want to feel useful." In 1987, I'm sober about six months and I'm over at this other AA club. I've gone to a six o'clock meeting at this other place.

Now I'm over at the 8:00 cuz I'm I got nothing else to do. My social calendar is a little like nothing. And um and I've gone to an 8:00 meeting and there's an old geyser over there and this guy named ML and he's long.

He was like 30 years sober then. And he's washing coffee cups. You follow.

Everybody else is downstairs smoking and chasing and doing all the things that we do in AA. And and I'm up there helping this old guy pick up coffee cups. No big deal.

He just I just did it. and he's turning out the lights and he pushs this towel down like that. He's got these old glasses like this and he turns around and he and he and he's got tears in his eyes.

We're talking about recovery and he's talking about the 12 steps and what and how it changed his life and he's got tears in his eyes. I said, "Buddy, are you okay?" He said, "Yeah, buddy. I just got to tell you though, when you start to see how it all comes around, you can't help but cry.

You can't help but get emotional." You know, Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob at our in our club, we had pictures like y'all got up there with Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob and it says these cats got together and they started it's like dropping a drop in the water, you know, and the rings that come out and and these first few cats got sober and then then these other guys got sober and then the ring is continued and 75 years downstream because because they got sober and did what they were supposed to do.

I got sober because somebody had the coahjonies to tell me what I needed to do to get well if I would have it. And if I didn't, they could pat me on the butt and send me out. But at least they were going to give me the tools and MLM or giving the message to me.

And then I'm turning around and 6 months in, I'm already sponsoring a guy and he can see how this ring is widening. Everybody wants to come to treatment, guys, and they want to talk about all the damage they did. But we got to put a consequence list.

All your drinking and this is the damage you did and all the people you hurt. Doesn't that make you feel bad? Yeah.

Like it's going to help you stop drinking. Makes me want to puke. Think about just just by you not drinking one day at a time.

You're awakened spirit. Think how many people we're helping. People you don't even know that are going to gravitate to you because you're not drinking today.

your families, your kids that are going to get healthy, the cycle that's going to be broken simply because you stood up and became responsible, a responsible member of a fellowship, not just somebody sitting in the rooms taking up air, actually doing the work, a soldier in the trench. ML looked at me, he said, "Buddy, I loved you so much. Thank you so much for being a part of this.

We need you." I remember thinking every time I hear it, guys, we all the best we can do in most of our meetings, we do it tonight is keep coming back. Keep coming back. I'm going to tell you something.

We need you is light years away from keep coming back. And that's what I got to say. I'm going to end with it.

I'm going to say just the same thing that Myers said last night. All of you geyzers in here, you little old buckaroos that have stood around this fellowship and stayed and kept coming back and guided us in our meetings and kept us out of the toilet. I'm going to thank you from the bottom of my heart for continuing to do that.

All you little big book thumpers that brought a big book in and tried to bring a topic and try to bring it back and get it on track when it started to derail, knowing that you were going to piss somebody off cuz they wanted to talk about their day. Thank you for doing it. Every one of you women in this room, I concur exactly with what Myers said.

The number one email I get from all over the world is, "Where can I find women to work with? Where can I find strong women that understand what this this this program is about? There's lots of sober women.

They can they they know all about hugs and kisses and where to buy bath oil for God's sakes, but they can't tell you how to finish a fourth step. Y'all follow? For the women that know how to finish a four step and they don't have a problem getting in the middle of it, thank you.

Thank you for sticking. You young people that didn't get scared out of the rooms by some smug son of that should have known better and didn't. Thank you for staying.

This program is not is not separate for everybody. This is why by God we just read it on page 17. We have a common problem called alcoholism.

And we have a common solution and it's the 12 steps and the necessary spiritual experience. It's it's it's all we can ask the cats that get in the trench with us. I did a 100 mile bike ride one time and we started out 18 of us and it got cold and by the time we finished there was only six of us and six of us finished it.

We finished it at 10:00 at night in a in a in a freezing rain. Came off these bicycles and all sat around the table together, got in the sauna and looking at each other with tears in our eyes. And because we had done something pretty epic, we'd been out there on that road falling and busting our butts all day.

Y you with us? We had a common experience. That's what ties us together.

We finished it. We finished the commitment. That's why if I see him in town, we don't have to say a word.

All we do is look at each other and smile. And we know exactly what we're smiling about. You'll follow.

It's time to get in the trench, folks. Stop standing on the sidelines taking everybody's inventory. It's get in the trench.

If a meeting's going down the toilet, let's look at the formats. It's not the personalities. Let's look at the formats and get in there and see if we can change those formats.

That won't allow us to sit around and just talk non-stop about our days. Do we need some of those meetings? Absolutely.

The big book talks about it. Do we need seven a day, 15 a week? No.

We need some places to get together and study the literature. And you guys get in the trench with us. And I guarantee you, I got this cards out.

We always stay in touch. And I give my last name from the podium because I want you guys to be able to contact me. Let's all stick together.

If you're ever having problems and you think I can help you in any way, you let me know cuz I assure you, I'll be calling you. Thank you for letting me come up here. Thanks.

Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.