I Sponsored the FBI Agent Who Arrested Me – AA Speaker – Mark K.
AA speaker Mark K. shares his unlikely story of sponsoring the FBI agent who arrested him, and how working the steps transformed both their lives in recovery.
Mark K. came into AA as a wealthy music producer with two FBI agents following him 24/7, facing federal charges and multiple agency investigations. In this AA speaker tape, he walks through how his sponsor Al taught him to work the steps, deal with resentments, and—most improbably—sponsor the FBI agent who had arrested him, turning a relationship forged in crisis into a partnership rooted in the fellowship.
Mark K., a former music industry executive, entered AA while under federal investigation with FBI surveillance. His sponsor Al guided him through early sobriety, learning to surrender his ego, handle resentments, and eventually sponsor Dave, the FBI agent assigned to his case. Through 19+ years sober, Mark discovered that working the steps and carrying the message transcend circumstance—his story illustrates Step 12 in action and the principle that God’s grace works regardless of external chaos.
Episode Summary
Mark K. walked into a Los Angeles AA meeting in 1983 dressed in disco clothes and armed security, with two FBI agents parked outside. His opening line: he’s an alcoholic. But his entry into the rooms is only the beginning of an extraordinary story about sponsorship, surrender, and the willingness to help even those who had arrested him.
Before sobriety, Mark had lived the life most people dream about. He became a music producer in his twenties, discovered several successful artists, won industry awards, and accumulated wealth most would never see. His picture was in national magazines. He had a 14-bedroom estate on the beach. By every external measure, he’d made it. But on the inside, he was driving himself toward destruction with alcohol and pills—and toward the attention of federal investigators.
When people suggested he had a drinking problem, Mark’s brain, as he puts it, mistranslated “go to an AA meeting” into “go buy AA.” So he showed up with his full entourage. His sponsor, Al, was assigned to him almost by accident—Al said he’d “lost the drawing” for who would sponsor this newcomer. What Mark didn’t know was that Al would become the most loving, direct, and unapologetically honest guide through the steps any drunk could ask for.
Al’s approach was unconventional. He took Mark to meetings dressed in his disco outfit (which had been dead for five years). He told Mark, without irony, “I’m the only guy you need to listen to, so shut up.” When Mark got down on his knees and had his house staff make his bed instead of doing it himself, Al said, “The wrong guy is going to stay sober”—and hung up on him. Mark learned fast. What Al was teaching him, beneath the humor and the bluntness, was about ego, surrender, and doing things God’s way instead of his own.
The 12-step work itself became an education in letting go. Al would take Mark on 12-step calls at 4 a.m., dressed in his bright disco clothes, and watch as drunks threw up on him. Mark was learning that the steps weren’t a checklist—they were a way to excavate the real reasons he’d been driven his whole life. His father had told him to go to college, but Mark heard, “You’ll never make it on your own.” For decades, everything Mark did—the success, the money, the accolades—was really about proving his father wrong. It wasn’t until he worked the steps that he understood what he’d actually been running from.
Coming up on a year sober, Mark faced another reckoning: the IRS. He’d hidden assets before visiting them, thinking honesty meant showing he had nothing. When they asked what possessions he was referring to (there were none to return), Mark lost everything again—no car, no house, no money. A trained German Shepherd was worth more than his net worth. A guy he’d been sponsoring for two weeks let him sleep on his couch (though the dog slept on the floor).
Al’s response to this financial collapse was pure program: “Go to a meeting, help one of God’s kids, and God will take care of you.” Then he hung up. Mark’s first-year cake was a moment of profound dignity—Al had told him earlier, when Mark said he couldn’t take a cake in his circumstances, that out of 6 billion people on the planet, not one of them was thinking about Mark at that moment. Take your cake. You earned it.
Then came the indictment. Charged with crimes from before he got sober, facing 50 years in federal prison, Mark called Al. Al told him to call his attorney instead. At the federal courthouse, Al showed up with six members from AA. The judge, impressed, let Mark out on his own recognizance.
The most stunning part of Mark’s story came next. One of the FBI agents who’d arrested him, Dave, called to ask if he could go to Mark’s home group meeting—he had a problem with cigarettes. Mark panicked. He called Al. Al said, “Take him.” At a restaurant, Dave broke down. He was an alcoholic, had been for years, was about to lose his career, and was going to die if he didn’t get help. He asked Mark to sponsor him.
What Mark does with this moment defines the entire talk. He sponsors Dave. Fully. Completely. With the same love and directness Al had shown him. Dave eventually got 13 years sober. Years later, Mark received a presidential pardon for his federal conviction. But the real gift, as Mark describes it, was learning that the steps and the fellowship work not in spite of chaos and contradiction, but through them.
Mark closes by mentioning 9/11—he was supposed to be on one of the planes that hit the towers, but a business meeting in London kept him off the flight. Another “coincidence,” as he calls it, which is his long-form way of spelling God. After 19+ years sober, Mark’s message is simple: sobriety is a gift. The fellowship saved his life. And the only tragedy in AA is that there’s no step for a broken heart—but there are commitments, and staying connected to others, and that’s where the healing happens.
Notable Quotes
There isn’t a single thing that you’ve got that I want.” — Al, to Mark on their first meeting
I’m the only guy you need to listen to, so shut up.” — Al
You’ve got no choice, buddy. You’ve got to pray for his health, his happiness, and his success with your ex-wife for an indefinite period of time or you’re going to drink.”— Al, on Mark’s resentment
Hey, Mark, when you’re sober, it’s like playing with loaded dice. God cheats in your favor always. You can’t lose.” — Al, before Mark’s sentencing
There’s only one tragedy in Alcoholics Anonymous. There’s no step for a broken heart.” — Wayne
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Sponsorship
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Resentments
- Surrender
- Spiritual Awakening
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Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. My name is Mark Crryer.
I'm an alcoholic. I'm going to start the clock. Hold on.
57 seconds. Thank you. Wow.
I uh boy, what a meeting. I uh I want to thank Al and uh Ted, especially Ted. Ted called me about a year ago and uh asked me if I'd uh be willing to come down and share with his group.
So I was over in Hawaii enjoying myself and because I've learned in Alcoholics Anonymous never say no to a request I said sure because my head told me there'll be 18 people there. Also, it was a year, you know. So, I I'm always amazed when when people ask me to speak a year ahead of time, you know.
It's um it's a real risk with a guy like me. I uh it's a miracle is what it is. So, if anyone ever asks you to speak a year in advance, just say yes.
You know what I mean? Because it just gave you inspiration to stay sober for a year. And um and then Ted would call me periodically throughout the year.
You still coming down, Mark? You know, it's great. I love Alcoholics Anonymous.
Primary purpose, stay sober, carry the message, and have fun. And fun I have in AA. And um before I get started tonight, I want to uh like I said, definitely thank uh Al and Ted and the entire committee for having me down.
And and also I want to thank um all the unseen heroes of the real of this committee of of the convention I should really say the people who are behind the scenes that aren't able to be here because they're working. So I'd like to give those people a hand tonight. Speakers like I we have it made.
We come down we get treated good. We get great rooms great everything. But that's really the the big the for me the big heroes of the conventions are the people behind the scenes and uh and I and it's just great to see a bunch of people that uh my friends from LA uh and uh my buddy Wayne who came down with me today that's he had to turn his will and his life over to the care of me for a while and uh and having Wayne as your guest for the weekend is an experience too.
I um but I love him. I love him and I and I believe that alcoholics of my type get more out of the average day. I want to tell you how my day started this morning.
I um knowing I had to drive down here, I made sure to leave everything till this morning. So, I ran out this morning and first thing I did is I I went to the store to get a few items. Now, um I also want to tell you that it's a real honor to share the podium with some wonderful wonderful speakers.
It it really is. And and if you didn't have the opportunity to hear Steve, he's he's a wonderful guy and I love him. I've had the opportunity to share the podium with him at another convention and he's a great guy.
And he actually told a little my story. What happened this morning, I went out to the store to get a few items. Now I'm 6'4.
And what happens now that I'm sober, especially getting ready to speak at a convention, I make sure to do it right this morning. And I went to the quick line check out with seven items. Of course, I had up to 10, but I wanted to make sure I didn't go over.
And um and what I did is I what I what I started doing that's why I believe alcoholics get more out of the average day. What I started doing is I started counting people's items in front of me. And depending upon what type of mood I'm in and I wasn't like let's get moving mood this morning.
A bunch of bananas is either one or nine. Well, there was somebody that had a bunch of bananas this morning and other stuff. And uh you know, by the time that I paid for my groceries, I was so exhausted, I would have called Bened and said, "I'm tired.
I'm going to go to sleep." And uh and then I decided the next thing I said, "Well, you know, maybe you should get some gas, Mark, cuz you're driving." So what I did is I WENT TO THE GAS PUMP AND WHAT I STARTED DOING IS TELLING YOU MY STORY, BUT THE GAS PUMP was running and um flooded the gas station and um and then I did something which I thought was wonderful. I told Wayne, you know what, we're going to be fine. Cuz Wayne always the type of guy always wants to get there on time and I'm always convinced that I can get there on time, you know.
So, I did what I thought every sober guy does. I headed down the freeway at 105 miles an hour, just telling Wayne, "LOOK AT THE TIME I'm making." Right. Of course, we hit three, not one, not two, three signal alerts on the 405 and the five.
And um as we're driving God's car, I uh we made it on time. But anyway, I you know, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I HAVE AN ALLERGY OF THE BODY COUPLED obsession of the mind with a spiritual malady. And um and that for me is alcoholism.
And and for all our new friends to Alcoholics Anonymous, I want to welcome you here this evening. I'm going to share with you that I'm going to try to stick to my own experience and not my opinions. I'll tell you why.
It's been my experience in Alcoholics Anonymous that when I share my opinions, people drink. And uh I love Alcoholics Anonymous. And um I also suffer from another disease that Clancy talks about up in Los Angeles is a disease of perception.
What you say is not what I hear. It's kind of like I don't know about you, but like when I see a wet paint sign, what that says to me is touch me. And I remember as as a kid growing up in Sherman Oaks, my um the age of about 16, my father said, "Son, it's time we sit down and have a talk." Now, this is what I heard my father say.
I heard him say to me, "You know, Mark, you just better marry a rich woman. You're never going to make it on your own." It's what I heard him say. My dad says, "Maybe you should go to college, Mark." And uh so I was on this mission to prove to my father that I didn't need anybody.
I could do it on my own at 16. Now you have to understand I came from a wonderful family. We didn't have much money.
I shared a bedroom I shared a bedroom with my kid's sister till I was 19. It's pretty humbling to go home at night and share a bedroom with your kid's sister. And uh I remember driving my mother's car one day down the street and I had much longer hair when I had hair.
And um I'll never forget this pretty girl pulling up next to me and saying asking me to roll my window down and and uh she said, "Are you the guy from the group three dog night?" And I said, "Yes, I am." It was nice to be recognized for who I was, you know. And I signed my first autograph, you know, and uh it just felt right. But it was PRETTY HUMBLING GOING HOME SHARING A BEDROOM WITH MY KID'S sister later that day and um and alcoholics of my type get more out of the you know we just blow things out of proportion and I got to tell you in Alcoholics Anonymous it's been my experience there are a lot of wonderfully musicallyincclined people.
I'm not one of them. And what happened is I I mean I got to the point that I almost got on stage one night to sing. I had to stop.
And uh you know they say alcoholics anonymous too that if you don't quit 2 minutes before the miracle you may be able to make certain men you never thought you'd be able to make you know. Well, there I was almost uh 5 years sober and uh secretary of a pretty goodsized meeting in Los Angeles. And at the end of our meetings, we give secretaries announcements and I thought I was working a pretty good program.
You know, suited up, showing up, being responsible, doing what needed to be done. Thought I had made all my amends until I was getting ready to make my announcement that evening. The guy from Three Dog Night walked in.
So, I did what I thought every sober guy does. I ran out of the room and uh never gave those announcements, but I went back and made my amends and he's still sober today. And that's the gift of Alcoholic synonymous.
That's one of the gifts. And and uh but at 16, you know, after a few months of being, you know, this rock and roll star, I had to retire because people were catching up with me. And um God, I've done some pretty strange things.
I'm I'm a believer that there's a God that's been watching over me. I've been following the yellow brick road. I've been off looking for the Wizard of Oz for years.
You know what I mean? And I know there's an angel and there's a there's been a God that's watched over me. I just haven't participated and allowed them to watch over me because it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE TO GET WHERE I was to where I am today because after I retired from Three Dog Night being a rock and roll star.
Oh, let me also tell you too, by the way, I love to drink. I really do. And really THE BEST WAY OF SUMMING up my drinking is what they talked about in Los Angeles last summer.
And that's what the news media talked about every day. Rolling blackouts. And that says it all about me.
It's amazing how they were talking about me again, you know, every night. And um I also have done a few nonapproved AA chemicals. I love pills.
I'll tell you why I love pills. I love pills cuz my doctors used to when they gave me the pills on the outside it said take AS NEEDED. SO I DID.
I love Alcoholics Anonymous. Primary purpose, stay sober, carry the message, and have fun. So after retiring from being the superstar, I decided to go to Honolulu and cut my hair so people wouldn't find me.
And I'll never forget the time you can convince anyone from the Midwest of anything. Believe me when I tell you that. I was I was a Phil Mills.
I WAS WALKING DOWN KAWAKA, which is a main street in Wik Ki, and this couple from the Midwest said, "Are you the guy from the Lakers?" Of course I am. Had a lot of pictures taken. And you wonder why I drank.
YOU WOULD TOO. SUPERSTAR AND THEN AN ATHLETE. You know, it was I had to quit that too cuz I found out he was married in Los Angeles.
Wild. And I'm still SHARING A VENUE WITH MY KID'S SISTER, you know what I mean? And um and a strange thing happened.
I ended up at the right place at the right time and found myself in the record industry. And 6 months thereafter, I literally went from the outhouse to the White House. I went from sharing a bedroom with my kid sister to a 14-bedroom estate on the beach.
I became an overnight millionaire. Press picked up on me. They made me this.
Well, here's what the press said about me. I'm a genius, right? I agreed with them, too.
And it's amazing. The amazing part is I can't hear a tune. So, but that's okay.
I um ended up discovering a few groups and had a lot of success and was on every national talk show and received every award you could receive in the entertainment business and was in every national magazine and I was just boy genius. I mean I was a genius. They only had any idea who they were dealing with and uh they're dealing with a guy that's not playing with a full deck.
And if you think you are this evening, I suggest you keep coming back. CUZ I'M HERE TO TELL YOU THAT ON MY BEST DAY TODAY, I'M PLAYING WITH 48 cards. I don't CARE HOW MANY MEN I SPONSOR, HOW MANY COMMITMENTS, HOW MANY TIMES I WAIT, 48 cards.
They're gone. Just gone. So anyway, I just started living this great life.
I'm here to tell you that IF I COULD STILL DO WHAT I USED TO DO, I'D STILL BE DOING IT. I had a wonderful life. I lived the life of uh Riley.
I mean, it was I had everything. I went after all my dreams. And the reality was what I was really doing on the inside was just trying to prove to my father that I could do it on my own.
See, and I didn't learn that till I got sober because my father passed away 3 weeks before I had the success. And it wasn't until I had the opportunity to come into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous to uncover, discover, and discard the baloney to realize the real reason I was on this drive and the real reason I did this crazy stuff. I mean, I got so CRAZY THAT I HAD TWO armed security guys with me.
Now, I know there's a God that loves you tonight. Believe me, cuz I'm here to tell you there was nobody that was ever after me. They were protecting you for me and it was a great journey.
I MEAN, I LOVED EVERYTHING I did. I mean, I got to tell you, it's a little embarrassing though. I um when I drink alcohol, I funny things happen to me and that is that I keep all my clothes on except my pants.
And um and when you're at the Grammys picking up an award and you're in the bathroom with your pants down cuz you're drunk, it's pretty embarrassing. And uh it was an experience that I never want to forget. But I love Alcoholics Anonymous.
So what happened is how I finally arrived to Alcoholics Anonymous is that people suggested I that I had a problem that I was drinking a little too much and that maybe I needed some help. So my whole life based upon my bad information, the same piece of machinery that counts people's items told me that I needed to go to AA to buy AA. Someone suggested go to a meeting and go to AA.
So my head, what I heard was go purchase AA. I'm going to tell you how I arrived in Alcoholics Anonymous. Picture this.
Two armed security guys. dressed as I am this evening with guns. REAL APPARENT they had guns.
I later learned it strongly suggested when you come in the rooms of aa do not come in here with a gun. And um and I had my aloha shirt, my sweatpants, those eyes that look like I've just been thrown out of the five freeway going 90 miles an hour not knowing how you knew that I was new. walking into AA to buy AA.
I walked into the into this well actually the what I later learned was the Germany to get sober section. Walked in there and asked who the head guy of AA was. I brought a check that night.
Guy said just sit down at the end of the meeting. I'll I'll tell you all the information you need to know. End of the meeting came.
He said, "You know what? The guy's not here tonight, but if you come back tomorrow, I love Alcoholics Anonymous. What I failed TO TELL YOU IS PREVIOUS TO COMING to get sober, about a month previous to getting sober, I had a misunderstanding with a federal agency.
the FBI and they called me in one day when I was still drinking and getting crazy and they said, "You know, Mark, we think you need to tell us some stuff." I said, "I don't know anything." They said, "Well, until you tell us what we need to know, WE'RE JUST GOING TO FOLLOW YOU." I SAID, "WELL, COME ON AND HANG OUT, YOU KNOW." They did 24 hours a day, two guys. So, when I walked into this meeting of a I HAD THE TWO FBI guys in the parking lot. So I came back the next night because I I was convinced the president of AA was going to be there.
Sat there and it was amazing. It was almost the same group of people, you know. At the end of the meeting, I get tapped on my shoulder by this old guy.
Well, he's my age now. And he said to me, he said, and I He look like the president of AA. He said to me, he said, "We knew a nut like you was coming in last week and we had drawings for a sponsorship and I lost." I thought it was good.
He said, "WE KNEW A VIP WAS COMING IN, SO THEY gave me you're my I'm your sponsor." So, I figured, well, it was good. So, this guy, he told me his name was Al, and Al said, "Tomorrow night, we're going to this other meeting." Well, I didn't want to I wanted to hook in with Al because I wanted to, you know, I want to buy a We go to a meeting the next night. Al speaks.
We went to A MEETING THE NEXT NIGHT. Al spoke. We went to a meeting the NEXT NIGHT IN ANOTHER CITY.
Al spoke. So I said, Ally, YOU'RE THE ONLY GUY WHO SPEAKS in aa. You know what that loving MAN SAID?
I'M THE ONLY GUY YOU NEED TO listen to, so shut up. And like the second night we WENT TO THIS ROOM WOULD I LATER HAVE learned that they're called you know I mean they're clubs you know CLUBS BUT I HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE AT THE TIME THERE WERE SIGNS all over the walls and easy was everywhere easy did this easy did that easy I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT WHEN I WAS DOING ALL I SAW WAS EASY, EASY, EASY, EASY. So I remember asking Al, I said, "Al, what are these signs?" He said, "Mark, these are for VIPs." So, you know, the next question I asked Al, don't you?
Are they going to make one for me? He said, "They already did." Cuz I figured Al must have read a story about me cuz he was being real nice. He used to tell people that we had to have the front row because we had our new friend with us.
So obviously they knew who I was. And um and I said, "So Al, what's the sign say?" He said, "Mark, it's already coming. They're going to put it up tomorrow." I said, "What's it going to say?" He said, "Get in the car and shut up." I love Alcoholics, Nana.
Primary purpose. Stay sober, carry the message, and have fun. Three key reasons why I'm blessed this evening to be your speaker.
One, I have a sobriety date, which is February 22nd, 1983. Two, I have a home group. And three, I have a sponsor who I love to death.
But now, if you can just picture this, two FBI guys, Al and I, traveling around, it's wild, you know, and my security guys. I love Al. And I'll never forget how I learned about 12step work.
You know, Al used to Al's been sober now 38 years and he's on this list from central office in Los Angeles. He's been on it for many years that they call him all hours of the night. So Al would get Al gets these calls all hours of the night.
And then he'd call me up cuz he told me I was one of his favorite guys. So here's what I heard Al say to me. Dress up and look good.
We're going on a 12step call. Wear your best clothes. Now, you got to understand that I'm 6'4 and I told you that I was involved in the Well, I was involved.
Here it is. I was involved in the disco era of music. Now you know why I drank.
I guess I should tell you about my first week since I told you about disco before I tell you about my 12step work because that's classic. In Los Angeles on Friday nights, we have a big meeting. It's on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.
It's just the pretty people meeting. You know, everybody dresses up, right? Everyone just wants to look good, sound good.
No one hears a single thing. They just they're just checking everybody out. And uh and it was my FIRST WEEK OF SOBRIETY.
AND THIS IS WHAT I HEARD AL SAY TO ME. Hey Mark, on Friday night I'm going to take you to a meeting where you're going to have a choice to pick your future wife. Look good.
Well, like I told you before a minute ago, I'm 6'4. Well, with my disco shoes, I'm 73. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS WHEN I GOT SOBER, DISCO HAD BEEN DEAD FOR 5 years.
And for any of you THAT REMEMBER, THE PANTS WERE A LITTLE SHORT. The jacket's real bright. Well, I'm here to tell you in o over 19 years, I have yet to see my sponsor laugh so hard and nonstop as when he honked that horn and I came running down and we took that drive to Beverly Hills, he couldn't stop cracking up.
WE GOT TO RODEO DRIVE AND THEY COULDN'T STOP LAUGHING there either. And I had my first spiritual awakening, my first week OF SOBRIETY IN AA at the break cuz I walked in that room and as this evening there are a lot of beautiful people. That's what happens when we get sober.
We get beautiful. Well, in my eyes, that's how I see it. And what happened was at the break I was looking I didn't hear like tonight the the the readings were great you know and everything was wonderful but they did the same thing that evening and I didn't hear a single word because I was cruising the room for my new wife and then ALL OF A SUDDEN ALL THESE MEN came up to me at the break and I want to TELL YOU I RESPECT YOUR GENDER AND WHAT you're into and where you're going in life BUT MY INTERPRETATION OF COMING IN HERE GETTING sober turning my wheel life over to a higher power was not meeting men.
I'm sorry. It just wasn't for me the first week. And what happened is the men in AA will trick you because these guys look normal, right, Ted?
And then I get ONE OF THESE GUYS THAT WOULD SAY TO ME, "HERE'S MY PHONE NUMBER. YOU CAN CALL ME ANY TIME OF THE NIGHT." I don't think so. And then I WOULD TURN THIS WAY AND THE GUY WOULD SAY, "Would you like to have coffee with me?" I LEFT THAT ROOM WITH A POCKET FULL OF MEN'S phone numbers.
And the miracle is there isn't a meeting that on our tent ON THE WEST SIDE OF LOS ANGELES THAT I DON'T GO running to the men to get a hug because it's the men's hugs and your hugs that have saved my life. the power of the fellowship. You have loved me back to believing and loving myself from the beginning and you've done it for now over 19 years.
So what happened was I went home and I threw all those numbers out. Al found out. He said, "Call me tomorrow morning when you wake up after you do what I suggested you do." BECAUSE AL HAS ALWAYS SUGGESTED.
He's never told me. And I'll never forget what Al said the first week when I met him. We sat down and I and I brought all my articles about myself.
Can you relate? Want to make sure Al knew who I was. And he said to me right then and there, he said, "Let me just tell you something, Mark.
THERE ISN'T A SINGLE THING THAT YOU'VE GOT THAT I want." Oh, really? I love Alcoholics Anonymous. And uh so anyway, next morning I woke up, got down on my knees, which was strongly suggested for me to do, called my house staff to make my bed, called Al.
So I told him what I did. He said, "Tell me about your morning." So I said, "I got down on my knees, had my house staff made." He said, "Oh my god." I said, "What do you mean, oh my god?" HE SAID, "THE WRONG GUY IS GOING TO STAY SOBER." I SAID, "I'LL CALL YOU RIGHT BACK." BACK. I HUNG UP THE PHONE, jumped back in the bed, jumped out, said my purse, made my own bed, called my sponsor.
You know what he did? Hung up on me. I love Al.
So, I was TELLING YOU ABOUT 12STEP WORK. SO, AL USED TO SAY, "TRADITIONALLY, WHEN WE DO 12STEP WORK in Alcoholics Anonymous, we take two people." He said, "But with you, Mark, we're going to take three." I said, "Why?" He said, "Because we got to have one guy just watch you." It was unbelievable. Well, I used to show up in my disco outfits at 4 in the morning and CD hotels.
Al would have a beanie and sweats, you know, and Al would talk, the drunk would talk. The next guy would talk, THE DRUNK WOULD TALK. I WOULD TALK, the drunk would puke all over my disco clothes, you know.
What a wonderful journey. Meanwhile, I still have FBI guys following me around. I'm so grateful for the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
And I'm so grateful for a sponsor who was loving enough to say, "We're going to find your path, buddy, through these steps." And he allowed me to to take what I needed to do to to work through these suggested steps. And and uh and to get rid of a lot of that garbage that I was holding on to and and discover who I really was, who I have no idea who that is today, but uh that's that's the gift for me in Alcoholics Anonymous. I get to keep coming back and I get to keep learning and discovering and finding out that the guy that's standing up here is a pretty decent guy, I think.
And um so what happened was I was coming up on a year of sobriety and I still had these FBI guys following me around and I decided there was one other agency I had a misunderstanding with that I didn't tell my sponsor about and that's called the Internal Revenue Service. And um so I thought it was time to what I used to do is I used to collect chips at every meeting I attended cuz I went to a lot of meetings. So anytime I'd go somewhere I always had these chips and I'd pull out of my pocket.
That was like my guard, you know. So I I'll never forget that I had all these chips and I decided not to tell my sponsor and I went to the Internal Revenue Service with my chips and said, "Look, I'm sober." And they were very grateful and appreciative that a nut like me was doing something to help society. And uh and they said that because I was so honest, I told them I had nothing because previous to seeing them, I took all my possessions.
Remember, I came in here a very, very wealthy guy. I was a multi-millionaire on the outside and a complete dead man on the inside. So, I took all those possessions before I went to the IRS.
And then I went to the IRS and we worked a deal out because he saw I had nothing. Went back and I told the guy that uh that I had tried to pull this quick one on to give me my stuff back. I'm I'm ready.
He said, "What stuff?" Now, I want to tell you that for this guy right here, this alcoholic, that my whole life had been based upon outside stuff. And here I was one more time, no car, no money, no home, and a police trained German Shepherd that was worth more than I was to my name. See, because what happens is I'm going to tell you something.
Should you decide to do something foolish regarding the FBI, when you have two FBI guys following you around 24 hours a day, you lose the right to threaten people. You just do. And um so I called Al up one week before my oneyear AA birthday.
Here I am. Nothing. So I said, "Al, you won't believe this." He said, "I'll believe it." I said, "I've got no home." I ran the whole story by him.
I said, "What do you suggest I do?" HE SAID, "GO TO A MEETING, HELP ONE OF GOD'S KIDS, AND GOD WILL take care of you." And he hung up on me. And the last thing I want to hear about was God and his kids. Sorry.
So, I ended up showing up at a meeting in spite of my best thinking. Wouldn't you know, there's a guy I was sponsoring for about 14 days, he said, "You could stay on my couch." Well, when you have a 125 lb German Shepherd, you don't get to stay on the couch. He kicks.
And um and there I was, boy wonder, shiny example of Alcoholics Anonymous. Come in here, be of service, suit up, show up, come in very wealthy, do it all. Go broke in a year.
That's what I thought. So I told my sponsor I couldn't take a cake. He said, "Are you crazy?" I said, "No, Al, what an inspiration I am." He said, "Mark, I'm going to really tell you how really important you are, not only in AA, but in the entire world." You know, these sponsors always want to make you feel good and special.
So I said, "Well, tell me, Al." He said, "Look at it like this, Mark. There are over 6 billion people on the planet, and in any given one moment, not one of them is thinking about you. Take your cake.
You earned it." See, and what I've learned from that experience, there's something you can no longer take from me, and that's my self-respect, my dignity, my pride, most importantly, my sobriety. And the only person that takes it this time is me. If I pick up that first drink, which with God's grace, between now and the time I go to sleep tonight, I won't.
So, I took that cake. I also no longer talk about my money, my car, my home, my relationship if I'm in one. You know why?
Cuz I talk about God's car, God's money, God's relationship. Cuz anytime I talk about mine, you'll find in bankruptcy court. It goes.
But when it's God's, I get to use it as long as I'm supposed to have it. And uh so I took this cake with some pride and some dignity. And there were those FBI guys on the back and my security guys.
It was wild. And uh I want to let you know that I had FBI guys because my primary purpose this evening is to stay sober, carry the message, and have fun. I had FBI agents follow me around for 2 and 1/2 years.
And then after 2 and 1/2 years, they stopped following me. Then I took a 30-day chip off FBI agents like you took a 30-day chip off alcohol. It was huge.
It was great. I also learned about resentments in Alcoholics Anonymous. I was sponsoring this.
What would happen in LA is that whenever these U VIPs would come into AA, Al used to grab them, say, "You ought to talk to Mark. He's a VIP, too." And um so all the men I was sponsoring were VIPs. And I did something real crazy.
I was married in a blackout. Surprise. And uh when we woke up, we got divorced.
And then I uh I ran into the same woman in sobriety. So I my fine piece of machinery told me, "What you ought to do, Marcus, try it again sober. That's nuts.
That is absolutely crazy." SO, WE WENT OUT AND IT DIDN'T WORK. Then I got a call from one of those VIPs I sponsor. When the men that I sponsor usually call me up, it's always about her or money.
No one ever calls me up to say they love me. One of the guys called me up and he said, "I love you." I said, "Uh-oh, we have a problem coming down the path." He said, "You know your ex-wife?" NOW, THIS GUY IS MARRIED TO A WELL-KNOWN superstar actress. He said, "Well, you know your ex-wife?" I said, "Yeah, I know my ex-wife." He said, "Well, I think she's great." I said, "Well, thank you." He said, "Well, I got to tell you something.
Can you tell me? He's married." He said, "Well, I'm going to leave my wife and run away with your ex-wife. I never thought somebody wanted what I had that bad would do what they did." You know what I mean?
And um so I called Al. SO, BEING THE GOOD SPONSOR THAT I am, I said, "I'll call you right back." Of course, I wanted to say a few things, but so I called Al. I SAID, "AL, THIS GUY THAT I'M SPONSORING WANTS IS GOING TO RUN AWAY WITH MY EX-WIFE.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?" HE SAID, "HA HA." AND HE HUNG up on me. So, I CALLED AL BACK. I SAID, "WELL, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST I DO, AL?" YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID?
"YOU'VE GOT NO CHOICE, BUDDY. You've got to pray for his health, his happiness, and his success with your exwife for INDEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME OR YOU'RE GOING TO DRINK. HAHA.
And hung up on me again. So I call HIM BACK AGAIN. I SAID, "WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?" HE SAYS, "How does it feel to have someone live rentree in your head?" Haha.
Hung up again. Called him back. I SAID, "HOW LONG DO I HAVE TO PRAY FOR this guy?" Al said, I suggest two weeks.
I figured piece of cake. Hung up. 15 minutes later, I prayed for this guy to die.
It's your Friday night speaker. Thank you. I'm telling you, it took me six months to get two solid weeks.
It just did. At the end of that, they ended they ended up getting married. God bless them.
NINE MONTHS LATER, THEY GOT DIVORCED. They're God's children. I love Alcoholics Anonymous.
Primary purpose, stay sober, carry the message, AND HAVE FUN. SO I WAS TRUDGING THE ROAD AND WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE LIKE me and all the people that I've encountered in alcohol in the rooms of alcoholics anonymous is my life got good again. The outside stuff came it went.
The relationships have come and gone. Life's in session. There are no dress rehearsals.
It's like an e ticket with no destination. Alcoholics anonymous for me is a language of the heart. And what happened for me?
I was coming up on 5 years of sobriety and I got a phone call and I got a call from one of those FBI guys. So, my fine piece of machinery one more time said, "Obviously, they're having a convention on alcoholism, the federal employees, and because they followed me around, they want me to be their keynote speaker." Wrong. If you ever want TO KNOW, IN LOS ANGELES, they indict people on Tuesdays.
So, ONE OF THESE GUYS TOLD ME, HE SAID, "YOU'VE BEEN INDICTED. YOU FACE 50 years in prison." Now, I want to tell you when you get a call like that, it's not going to pass at a meeting. So, they said, "We trust THE FACT THAT YOU SEE, BUT I BELIEVE THAT COINCIDENCE for me is a long form of spelling God." And by coincidence, he woke all my neighbors up that morning.
They couldn't find me. That's unheard of for the FBI, let alone when you've been indicted. So, they said, "We trust THE FACT THAT YOU'LL turn yourself in." I said, "Sure, I'll be right there." SO WHAT DID I DO?
I CALLED AL. So I called Al. I SAID, "AL, YOU WON'T BELIEVE THIS ONE." HE SAID, "BUDDY, ANYTHING YOU TELL ME, I'll believe about you." I said, "I'VE JUST BEEN INDICTED AND I FACED 50 YEARS in prison.
WHAT DO I DO?" HE SAID, "DON'T CALL ME. CALL YOUR ATTORNEY. SO, I turned myself into the federal building in Westwood, California, and there were those two agents that had been FOLLOWING ME FOR 2 AND 1/2 YEARS, WHO HADN'T SEEN ME 2 AND 1/2 years that were apologizing.
They're saying, "Well, there was a grand jury, and I want you to know that what they accused me of took place 3 years previous for me getting sober." That's almost 8 years earlier. And the most amazing part is what those people accused me of. I did.
But I when I came to you, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired of being sick and tired and I was willing to do whatever it took not to take a drink and I had to make that commitment. However, WHEN YOU'RE ALMOST 5 YEARS SOBER AND YOU'RE FACED WITH 50 years in prison, alcohol starts to think real good in your head. You know what I mean?
So were I turned myself in. THE GUYS TOLD ME THE case was so large they had to take me down to federal court in front of a federal judge to see if I'd even get bail. They said, "We're going to take you downtown." So we walked down the stairs.
We They said, "Look, we trust the fact that you're not going to get crazy. We're not going to handcuff you. We're going to take our guns out and we're going to put you in the back seat with the little federal car with the little red light underneath the dash." So I did.
So I sat in the back seat. We pulled out. If you're new here this evening to Alcoholics Anonymous and you ever want to know when you're going to give your best pitch in AA, it's in the backseat of a federal car.
Trust me. We pulled out. Guy said to me, one of the guys turned around and said, "God, you look great." I said to myself, "I look great, YOU IDIOT.
I'M FACED WITH 50 years in prison." You know, us, we'll look good at any lengths. You know what I mean? I went I looked real good when I showed up to federal court.
And he said, "So, what have you been doing the last two and a half years?" So, I TOLD HIM IN A GENERAL way what it was like real general. What happened? Real general.
Then we got down to federal court in LA. They said, "Now we have to handcuff you." And I said, "That's what it's like today." I walked into the courtroom, two FBI agents. I'm handcuffed.
Two deputies like I'm going nowhere. Walk into this courtroom on a Tuesday. On the left side of my eye, when I walk into the courtroom, who do I see in the courtroom?
Al and six knuckleheads from AA. Now, as you look around this evening, you I THINK YOU'LL TEND TO AGREE WITH ME. WHEN WE get together as a group, we do not look like the PTA.
So this federal judge says, "Who are these gentlemen with?" Bless my sponsor's heart. I'm in handcuffs. I look over my shoulder and Al stands up says, "My name is Al and I'm an alcoholic and I'm his sponsor in AA." Well, based on Al, those six knuckleheads, they let me out on my own.
Another coincidence. I'm scared to death. I made was This is great for my mom.
Made the evening news. National news, front page of the LA Times. Boy, Wonder looked real good that day.
I'm scared to death. You guys are calling me up. You won't stay out of my life.
You You come over to my house. You just won't leave me alone. You just were in my way.
And what happened? I was looking forward to going to my home group, which at that time was 300 strong the next day. And the next morning, I woke up and I got a call from one of those FBI guys.
Now, I want to let you know, and I know there's some people involved with government in this room. I know that, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T TALK TO SOMEBODY AFTER THEY'VE BEEN INDICTED. THEY CAN jeopardize their case.
Cuz I know one of your speak Oh, never mind. I can't say that. So, anyway, what happened was Dave, the FBI guy, said, "I was very impressed with your talk in the car yesterday.
I never knew I WAS GIVING A PITCH." and he said, "I'd like to go to your meeting with you this evening because I have a problem with cigarettes." So I told him, "No problem." I hung up. I freaked out. I called Al.
I said, "The FBI GUY THAT JUST CALLED ME WANTS TO GO TO MY OWN GROUP. WHAT DO I DO?" YOU KNOW WHAT AL SAID? "TAKE HIM." I called AL BACK.
I SAID, "IT'S A SETUP. THEY'RE GOING TO KILL ME. His name is Dave." I knew all what they were going to do.
All the WAY TO THE FEDERAL BUILDING. I gave Al a description of Dave in case I'm die that night. You know, it's 5 years clean sober.
It's great. So, I GET TO THE FEDERAL BUILDING AND THERE'S DAVE WITH THAT same car going like this. I went with Dave.
I knew it was all over for me. Got in the car and Dave says, "Are you hungry?" I said, "Uh, yeah." And I figured my head told me of course the waiters are going to be all FBI. They're going to they're we my mind that's dangerous place to hang out.
So what happened is we WENT TO THIS RESTAURANT. GOD BE MY WITNESS. Within 3 minutes Dave starts to cry.
I'm saying to myself, what are you crazy? I SHOULD BE CRYING. WHAT ABOUT ME?
Dave says, "I've been an agent for 29 years. I've got one more year to go on the force. I'm an alcoholic.
I have a drinking problem. I can't stop. I'm going to die.
Will you help me?" You know what my headset? No. It did.
DRINK, GET WHATEVER YOU LIKE. DIE BEFORE MY TRIAL. LET ME BUY IT ALL.
DAVE, what you've taught me, primary purpose, stay sober, carry the message, and have fun. So, now I got a major problem here. I GOT DAVE, THE FBI AGENT WHO JUST ARRESTED me yesterday, and Dave, the newcomer, GOING TO MY HOME group meeting.
I can't SAY ANYTHING CUZ I'M AFRAID DAVE'S GOING TO TELL ON ME. I walk into THAT ROOM AND EVERYBODY KNOWS something's not right. I'm going to TELL YOU ABOUT DIDDY.
He looks like an FBI agent. He walks out because he is an FBI agent. I didn't say anything that night.
I went back to the federal building. Dave says, "I'm going to take you back to your car." I said to myself, "Thank you." Getting ready to jump OUT OF THE CAR. YOU KNOW WHAT DAVE SAID?
EXCUSE ME. I SAID, I knew it was coming. You know what he said to me?
Would you be my sponsor? AND WHAT DID I SEE? FREEDOM.
YES, DAVE. I'LL BE THE BEST SPONSOR YOU'VE EVER HAD. Next day, I GOT A CALL FROM THE FBI.
NOW, when I get a CALL FROM THE FBI, THAT'S LIKE SHOCK TREATMENT. I JUMP. YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS?
Dave checking in. I told Dave we have to have another password. You're going to kill me, buddy.
He doesn't know what I CAN DO TO MYSELF. I'LL SHOW HIM. Few days later, YOU KNOW WHAT DAVE SAID TO ME?
I'm pulling off your case. Would you still sponsor me? I said, why are you pulling off my case?
Cuz I figured he'll write a letter to the judge. There was a purpose in my thinking. He said, if they find out that I'm talking to you, that could jeopardize the case against you.
would you still sponsor me? I said, "Sure, Dave. Be an honor and a privilege." Boy, was I upset that day.
My whole day was ruined. I want to tell you about my experience in court because it was an unbelievable experience. I um I pleaded guilty cuz I was guilty and uh that's what you taught me in Alcoholics Anonymous.
And I want to tell you what happened. And I um the the the the day we went to court, there were over 200 people at that time that showed up that people I knew and people I didn't know, people were just there to support a a drunk who wanted to stay sober for another day. And and we had a big meeting before out on the outside of the federal court building.
We did the Lord's Prayer before we went to that courtroom that day. And I get tears in my eyes when I just think about that moment that the support and love that the fellowship has given me non-stop. And um we went to the courtroom and and we went in and I had Al on one side and my mother on the other and it was packed with you.
You packed the room and they thought there was going to be a breakout because of so many people. They had extra deputies. It was national coverage with media.
It was wild. Everybody in my case went to trial and everybody lost. I was the last guy to get sentenced in that case that day.
Everybody in front of me who went to trial and lost got 45 years in prison. If you just do the mathematics, minimum I'm going to get is 45. I'll probably get the full term since I pleaded guilty.
I want to tell you what my sponsor said to me when they called my name. I'll never forget these magical words that were said to me by my sponsor. And only Al could have said these words.
I'm getting ready to go to prison for a long time. And Al as they after they mentioned and called my name, Al whispers in my ear, the key for me in Alcoholics, he said to me, he said, "Hey, Mark, when you're sober, it's like playing with loaded dice. God cheats in your favor always.
You can't lose." Kiss me on my cheek. I stood up. I'm thinking, "Rice dice?
What is my sponsor loaded? He's still talking this crazy stuff. IT'S RIGGED.
IT'S NOT RIGGED. I'M GOING TO PRISON FOR A CRIMINAL THING. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT THE RICE AND THE GAMBLING AND THE DICE.
I'm walking up thinking it's rigged, THE RICE, THE DICE, it's loaded. I GET IN FRONT OF THIS FEDERAL JUDGE. I WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT THIS FEDERAL JUDGE THAT'S STILL ON THE BENCH TODAY.
HE'S THE GREATEST JUDGE IN THE WORLD. NOT THE US, THE WORLD. Those people in LA say crazy things about him.
He's a racist. HE'S A BIGOT. HE'S CRAZY.
THEY'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET HIM OFF THE BENCH FOR 25 YEARS. I LOVE HIM. That man called me up.
He sentenced me to five years in prison. I was thrilled. Big alcoholic.
AND AS SOON AS YOU GET SENTENCED for all I know there's a couple that have had this experience. When you get sentenced and there's deputies in the room, they come up to you. So I know the drill.
So I made it easy, right? The deputies are walking up the JUDGE GAVE ME 5 YEARS IN PRISON. I BEING ALCOHOLIC I SAID LET'S go now 4 YEARS 365 DAYS AND 23.
LET'S GO. LET'S HIT IT. I THOUGHT I MADE THE SCORE IN LIFE.
Then he starts talking and talking and talking. THANK GOD YOU TAUGHT ME WHEN I WANT TO THINK ABOUT OR WHEN I MAKE A DECISION, DON'T FOLLOW THROUGH A LOT OF TIMES because what my head told me at that moment was to tell him to shut up. I CAME THIS CLOSE.
Just take me. And then what he did 15 minutes later, he suspended my sentence. He said, "Young man, I've been on this bench for over 25 years.
I have never done this before. You belong in federal prison." He said, "I don't know why I did this." And you know what my head said? I KNOW BECAUSE IT'S RIGGED.
God cheats in my favor CUZ I'M SOBER. was on federal probation, thrilled to death. And I was laughing tonight when they had the court cards.
He told me how TO TAKE A COURT CARD. YOU KNOW WHAT HE DID? THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO TO AN ALCOHOLIC.
I WAS ALMOST 5 YEARS SOBER. YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID? PART OF YOUR SENSE, YOUNG MAN, IS AA FOR ANOTHER 5 years.
AND HE TOLD ME I COULDN'T DRINK, take any legal pills, do anything, or I'd be faced with 50 YEARS IN PRISON. YOU KNOW, my headset, you can't tell me I can't drink. SOME ARE SICKER THAN OTHERS.
THAT'S WHY I KEEP COMING BACK. Couple years thereafter, I got released off federal probation. Couple years thereafter, by the grace of God, the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous, members of Alcoholics Anonymous, who have walked in front of me, I received a presidential pardon, which is unbelievable.
But the big gift for me, a few months ago, Dave Dave, I gave him a 13-year AA birthday cake. Strange. I know there's an easier, softer way, but my guy's got a sense of humor.
I love Alcoholics Anonymous. I love everything about Alcoholics Anonymous. I love the gifts.
I love the friendships like my friend Wayne. You know, last year I had a real hard time and I was going through something that I didn't think I'd be able to go through and he was there to be he was always there and he and Wayne shared with me something very touching which has never left me. And he said, you know, Mark, he said, there's only one tragedy in Alcoholics Anonymous.
And I said, what was that, Wayne? He said, there's no step for a broken heart. I sure hope you have a lot of commitments.
And I want to let you know based on those words that Wayne shared with me and the commitments that you have allow me to participate in the pain passed. And I know there's a God out there that's not finished with me yet. And I know it's rigged cuz I want to share an experience that I had just on 911 which is a big part of my life and changed my life a lot.
I've had the opportunity and blessing to work with a lot of fine men in Alcoholics Anonymous and unfortunately some of them don't live in Los Angeles and one of the guys I was working with is an athlete and he lives in Boston and uh we go back and forth and what happened was on um September 9th I was scheduled to fly to Boston on United on flight 174 and September 11th to fly back on flight 175, one of the planes that hit the World Trade And a strange thing happened, one of those coincidences, which I said has been a long form of spelling God. I got a phone call a couple days previous to that, to come to London for a business meeting for a night. Now, I want to let you know in my earlier days, I've done a lot of crazy things, but I just don't fly to London for dinner that often anymore.
And uh and I bitched all the way cuz when I go to Boston with this guy, we have a lot of fun. Plus, it's a commitment. And I've learned in Alcoholics Anonymous that commitments are very important to follow through with.
When I called him and told him that I may not make the the flight, he said, "I understand, but I'd really like you to be here." On the way to London, I can't tell you I was the most miserable guy in the world because I didn't want to be there. When I got to London, they canled my meeting. >> Great alcoholic, right?
I was in a great state of mind because of that trip. I was unable to catch that flight on September 9th. I missed it by a day.
And when I got a phone call September 11th, I must have I must have received no less than 15 phone calls from United Airlines because I still had my e ticket and they weren't sure if I was on that airplane or not cuz I was just sleeping that morning. And then when I answered the phone, I was shocked. And I know that there's a God that is not finished with me yet.
As I know there's a God that's not finished with you yet. And I know as in my heart tonight, I know like I'm sure there's a part of you tonight that knows if you drink again, as I know if I do it again, I'm going to die. And I am so grateful to be alive tonight.
I am so appreciative of a God that loves me so much that just follows stays two steps ahead of me knowing that I'm just incapable of following the yellow brick road, you know. And um it's such a gift to be sober this evening. It absolutely is a gift for me.
And it's a gift to be at your 25th anniversary. It's a gift to be in San Diego. And um if you're new here tonight, I want to tell you that I love you and I want to welcome you to Alcoholics Anonymous.
And I want to tell you that if no one has told you they love you today, that I'm the guy that does. I love you for being here and I love you for giving me the way of life that has been the greatest journey that anyone could ever imagine. I I love sobriety.
I can't wait to wake up every day to see where it's going. Because what I do know is that I don't know. And what I do know is that I have finally come to a place in my life that I am capable of loving you for who you are because I'm capable of loving me for who I am.
And I'm capable of forgiving you because I'm capable of forgiving myself. And if you're new here tonight, I want to tell you that my life over 19 years has consistently gotten better. I love Alcoholics Anonymous.
And may your journey be as wonderful as mine has been. And may God bless you. Thank you.
>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.