I Relapsed After 17 Years Sober – AA Speaker – Tom P. – Plano, TX
AA speaker Tom P. from Plano, TX relapsed after 17 years sober and shares what he discovered about working the steps from the Big Book and why traditional AA advice failed him.
Tom P. from Plano, TX came to AA in 1987 at age 23 after years of daily drinking since age 11. In this AA speaker tape, he shares how despite 17 years sober, he relapsed—and what he discovered in the Big Book afterward that changed everything about how he understands the steps, the disease, and what actually keeps people sober.
Tom P., an AA speaker from Plano, TX, shares his story of relapsing after 17 years sober and his discovery of Big Book-based step work that contradicted much of what he’d learned in typical AA meetings. He explains that his original sponsor taught him exercises that didn’t match the Big Book, leading him to misunderstand his problem (powerlessness over the first drink and the mental obsession) and the solution (the steps taken quickly, not fellowship activities). After getting sober again, Tom worked with people who understood the Big Book’s actual instructions and found that the steps can be completed in 12 days when done correctly, removing the blocks to God’s power rather than trying to fix character defects on his own.
Episode Summary
Tom P. walks into a Big Book study at noon and decides to share his story—one that stretches across three decades of sobriety, a devastating relapse, and a profound discovery about how AA is supposed to work.
He came to AA in 1987 at 22 years old after drinking daily since age 11. By then, he’d spent 36 months in inpatient psychiatric hospitals as a teenager, but treatment never addressed the real problem: he’d drink again within days of leaving. Austin, Texas became the epicenter of his drinking, and by age 22, nothing worked anymore. He made it to a treatment center in Chicago and returned to Austin to start meetings.
For the first few years, Tom says it was a blast. He went to large, well-established groups and sat through discussion meetings where people shared their problems instead of solutions. After five to ten years, he started feeling “real grindy.” He’d taken what he thought were the steps—doing what his sponsor told him to do—but looking back, none of it matched the Big Book. His sponsor had him reading and writing on Step Two for 30 days, and when he didn’t believe in God the way he was supposed to, he lied about completing the exercise. They never started with Step One, never addressed what the real problem actually was.
This is where Tom identifies a critical turning point: he thought his problem was drinking too much and the bad consequences that followed. But that definition made the solution confusing. He was sober, getting along with people, paying bills, working—so by his understanding, his problem was already solved. He could coast on 90-and-90, sober softball, Denny’s runs, and the fellowship. Emphasis was everywhere except on the steps and God.
At 15 years sober, during a men’s meeting, Tom got called on and had nothing of substance to offer. He decided to be honest: “I feel like I’m going to drink again.” His friends suggested he come early and make coffee, double up on meetings. He knew that advice would kill him.
A couple of years later, the thought came. Tom had done everything right externally—UT degree, master’s degree, his own business, good money, great wife, great kid, no triggers. But he’d spent 17 years looking for the triggers everyone said mattered, and they weren’t there. He knew the consequences. He could play the tape through perfectly. He drank anyway.
What shocked him most: all the advice he’d heard for 17 years didn’t work. He’d followed it exactly. He played the tape through. He “thought through the drink.” Nothing stopped him.
When he finally got sober again, he met people who understood the Big Book. They showed him the passage on page 24 that changed everything—the money shot, Tom calls it. Page 24 describes the mental obsession: most alcoholics have lost the power of choice in drink. “Our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent. We are without defense against the first drink.”
This meant “put the plug in the jug” and “think through the drink” are useless for real alcoholics. They don’t work because the disease isn’t about willpower—it’s about a mental obsession that makes you pick up that first drink, and a body that craves more once you do. Two things separate alcoholics from normal drinkers: the obsession and the craving. If you don’t understand that’s your problem, the steps don’t make sense.
Tom describes the tragedy of his relapse in another context: a friend from his hospital work days called desperate to get sober. Tom took him to a meeting—a complaining meeting where people were “pissing and moaning.” The guy was horrified. Tom told him his attitude was the problem. That man, who Tom calls “Paul,” killed himself a week later. Tom was equipped with platitudes, not substance. He wishes he’d had real answers about the actual problem and solution.
After relapsing, Tom discovered that when he trusted his mind to keep him sober—when he pulled out his trigger list or tried to think through things—it never worked. But this time, he was desperate enough. He’d lost all hope. He really believed he’d die if he went back to those meetings giving the same advice.
He found people studying the Big Book who explained Step One: can’t keep yourself from the first drink, can’t control the second drink or the 15th. There’s nothing you can do without a power greater than yourself. Step Two isn’t about believing in God 100%—it’s about believing you could believe, that power exists. Step Three is striking a deal with God: you do this, I’ll do that. And the work begins immediately.
The steps, done correctly out of the Big Book, take about 12 days. Tom took a man through the work when Tom had three weeks sober. They went through the Doctor’s Opinion and first 43 pages. Talked about the craving, the mental obsession, and the evidence of powerlessness. Step One took one conversation. Step Two: where are you with God? Even if you’re at zero, can you believe you might get to one? That’s all. Step Three is the real deal—”relieve me of the bondage of self” and “do with me as thou wilt.”
Tom unpacks what so many in AA miss: if the baggage we carry—the regret, self-pity, resentment from past abuse, incest, childhood pain—is spiritual in nature, then God can remove it. Tom says he doesn’t have regrets about his past anymore. He was responsible for carrying the resentment for 38 years and using it to justify his behavior, but that’s spiritual, and it can be gone. He uses his past and even his relapse to carry the message now.
He walks through Step Four (takes an hour), Step Five (doesn’t read your inventory back to yourself; own your part), Steps Six and Seven (becoming willing and then asking), Step Eight (listing people you’ve harmed), and Step Nine (restoring them, not just apologizing).
Step Ten is where half the fellowship drops out because they won’t follow the directions. Continue watching for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, fear. Just because you asked God to remove it doesn’t mean it won’t come back. But many people think their resentments are too small to call about, so they don’t do it. Tom emphasizes: the book means what it says.
Step Eleven: if you’re not praying and meditating, start. Back in the 30s, these guys meditated more than they prayed. God likes to hear from you, but he likes it better when you’re quiet enough to listen. And Step Twelve: “nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics.” Yet AA often tells newcomers to wait a year or two to sponsor or carry the message. Think about it: you have a problem that will kill you. Your solution is available now. The guys in the 30s, when success rates were through the ceiling, just took the steps, looked for other drunks, and took them through the work.
Tom ends by challenging the fellowship to back off the poker games and Denny’s runs and emphasize the program instead. When people come desperate, they need to hear something they can sink their teeth into: steps, God, and the promise of a spiritual awakening. Not “keep coming back.” Not “put the plug in the jug.” The actual solution.
He relapsed after 17 years. It sucked. It was an ego beating to cash in his sobriety date from 1987. But he wouldn’t be standing here sharing this if he hadn’t gone through that and found people who understood how to do the work the way it was meant to be done.
Notable Quotes
My problem is I can’t keep from picking up that first drink and triggering that craving. I’ve got this mental disorder, this malady that prevents me from being able to stay sober for any length of time on thinking through the drink or playing the tapes through or all this other stuff.
The lack of power is my problem. Power is my solution. I got a bunch of stuff blocking me from my solution. We got to do some work to get that stuff unblocked. And then I’m good. I’m golden.
We tell them to come back. Everything will get better. Put the plug in the jug. Think through the drink. And when these alcoholics came in and tried to do this stuff, most of them didn’t make it.
We’re so selfish that we’re going to try to stay sober on somebody else’s story. I can’t stay sober on my own damn story. What makes me think that my story is going to keep anybody else sober?
If God can get us sober, he can fix a whole bunch of other stuff. We just got to trust that maybe he can.
Big Book Study
Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
Relapse & Coming Back
Sponsorship
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 1 – Powerlessness
- Big Book Study
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Relapse & Coming Back
- Sponsorship
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
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Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Let it begin with me.
>> All right. Um I came to a a meeting here um a few days ago. It was a it was a big book study at noon and and we were talking about the the spiritual malady, you know, in the doctor's opinion and on page 52 and and there were some really really solid comments going on in that meeting and I was I was I mean I felt like I fit in here talking about this stuff.
I mean you guys sounds like you're doing great. Everybody looks good. Most of the women have all their teeth.
I mean this IS THIS IS THIS is definitely a cool group. I remember when this group started, it was kind of a split off from some other groups and um it's really cool to see how it's grown and how everybody is just looking real good. I came to AA in ' 87.
I was um 23 years old. It's actually right before I turned 23. And and I had been drinking solid for since I was 11.
um started drinking daily when I was about 12 years old and and the drinking was was was so it it consumed so much of my time and energy that everything else fell by the wayside. School, relationships at home. You guys know the drill.
And by the time I was 18, I had spent a total of of 36 months in inatient psychiatric hospitals. Um because what they were doing is they were trying to treat the the symptoms, you know, Tom, you need to be a good boy, you need to, you know, be home at curfew, you need to, you know, get along with others and all this other stuff. And and every time I left one of those places, it was a matter of days or hours before I was drinking again.
Um, of course we didn't talk about alcoholism back then, especially with the kids cuz um I don't I don't think the insurance companies were paying for for adolescence to get drug treatment or alcohol treatment. So by the time I'm I'm 19 years old, I'm I'm I'm out of the last place and I'm living in Austin, Texas, which is pretty much the major scene of the crime for me. That's where things just went just went nuts and and there was, you know, all sorts of opportunities down there to to just raise hell and and fit right in and not really stand out too much.
And by the time I was 22, everything just just started to crumble. Everything stopped working. The booze, which was solving my problem, quit working.
I was I was in a place where, you know, I didn't want to drink. I didn't want to stop drinking. I wanted to drink more than I wanted to stop, but I needed to stop more than I needed to drink.
And and I was I was just a a basket case. And I end up going to this treatment center up in Chicago and went back to Austin after I got I grew up in Chicago. So after I got out of there, I went back to Austin and I started going to meetings and um I'll tell you, you know, for the first few years, it was it was a blast.
um went to some, you know, fairly wellestablished groups down there, fairly large. And and and most of these meetings were were discussion meetings where the chairman would pick a topic and and sometimes we'd stay on it. Sometimes we'd wander aimlessly from the topic and and a lot of times it turned into, you know, I can relate to that.
Let me plug in my little story here. And then it just kind of goes around the room. And so you're you're listening for for the solution and and and what what you're hearing is is a bunch of people's problems and and for a while I got to admit I mean there is you know I'm I don't know maybe I'm a voyer or something but but some of the stuff was interesting to hear.
I mean some of you guys were just wacko seriously. And and I would want I would keep coming back just to listen to the next episode and And after five or 10 years of this, man, I'm starting to get real grindy. You know, I I'd kind of taken what I thought was the steps.
If you had asked me if I've taken the steps, I could say yes because I did what my sponsor told me to do. However, what he told me to do didn't really even rhyme with what's in the big book. It was just kind of different exercises, a bunch of writing and reading on step one, reading and writing on step two.
And we weren't following the directions out of the book. And so the results I got were pretty pretty goofy. Um, you know, one place where we where we lose a lot of people in AA is is with the God thing.
I mean, who here hasn't come in a little goofy about the God issue? You know, we we all have or or most of us have. And and I'm I'm sitting here on step two obsessed like crazy.
All I can think about is is getting loaded and and my sponsor's got me reading this thing about in in a book and the chapter says step two. I've got to read it for 30 days and if I miss a day I got to start all over. So after 30 days I I lied and told him I made the 30 days and and I I I didn't believe in God like like I was supposed to.
That's what I was supposed to get out of this exercise. The problem was is is we never started with step one. We never started with what the problem really was.
>> Um, you know, when I came to AA, I I thought my problem I thought step one meant that I drink too much and when I drink, bad stuff happens. I thought the the bad stuff was the the unmanageability in step one. And so that became my my definition.
That could that became my problem. And when I looked at it as my problem that way, the the solution, the steps didn't make a whole lot of sense cuz here I am, you know, I'm I'm clear of the booze. I'm I'm getting along with people, paying my bills, going to work.
All the bad stuff that happened quit happening. And by that definition, my problem was solved basically doing what I was doing. So I was I was perfectly okay with with you know going to 90 and 90 and a thousand and a thousand and and doing you know going to so playing sober softball and going to Denny's and and doing all the fellowship stuff cuz there was there was so much emphasis on on the fellowship on on the activities on the meetings instead of the steps and God and working with others at least with the groups I was going to that it was real easy to kind of get caught up in that and think that that's what AA was and and and we all know, you know, what happens with that.
Most people that come to us, especially today, I don't know what the success rates are for sure. I know the numbers they're throwing around and and they're terrible. Most people coming to AA aren't making it, you know, 10% at best, but I I think the numbers lower than that.
You guys probably might think so too from your own observations, watching people come and then wondering where the hell they are the next day. They're gone. And what happens is what happened with them at our meetings is they came for the solution.
They really wanted it. It's not like they weren't willing to go to any length. We did we just didn't give them anything to sink their teeth into.
We told them to come back. Everything will get better. Put the plug in the jug.
Think through the drink, etc., etc., etc. And and when these these alcoholics came in and tried to do this stuff, most of them didn't make it. Um, anybody here ever killed a newcomer?
One. Two. Anybody Anybody ever have anybody die trying to follow trying to stay sober on the advice that you gave them?
I I had a guy that came to me. I was We'd worked together at the Austin State Hospital. It was a combat zone.
We we we were real tight. every night we were wrestling or tackling and shackling and and and you just kind of get real close to people when you're working in that kind of environment. And um so I had about 5 years I I hadn't worked there in 5 years and he calls me up and says, "Man, are you still an AA?" And I said, "Yeah." He says, "I need help.
I have got to stop drinking." So well, come on, man. Let's let me pick you up. I'll take you to a meeting.
We go to this meeting and I don't know what the topic was. doesn't matter. But it it turned out to be one of these, you know, complaining meetings where everybody was just kind of pissing and moaning about their problems.
And we get in the car and this guy just blasts me after the meeting. He's like, you know, what in the hell was that all about? I'm like, what are you talking about?
Says that that meeting, those people, what's what's the matter with them? I was like, nothing. What's the matter with you?
Well, I mean, all they did was just, you know, and moan and and and they look like they're all ready to kill themselves. I said, "Man, you've got a messed up attitude." It's not quite how I said it, but these people are sober and you're not. And and you ain't going to make it with an attitude like that.
If you're going to get mad at the people and dislike the people are going to save your bacon, you ain't going to make it. So, he goes to another meeting, same thing. goes to another meeting, calls me up after that meeting, says the same thing.
This time he's getting more more aggressive in his opinions and his comments and and we go to the mat over the telephone and I pretty much, you know, tell him that he ain't going to make it if if his attitude doesn't change. And a week later, uh, Paul killed himself. And I didn't kill him.
I I know that. However, if if I had been equipped with the right information to give this guy with something of substance rather than telling him to, you know, go to 90 and 90 and put the plug through in the jug and think through the drink. Um, he might have had a shot.
If if the whole group had been doing what it's supposed to do, carrying its message to the alcoholic who still suffers instead of trying to work on our own problems, he might have heard something he could sink his teeth into. And he might have he might have found a reason to take these steps. Nobody's going to do these steps if they don't have a reason to do it.
And and and the main reason for doing it is to understand exactly what our problem was, which we never talked about in the groups I was going to. You know, when when um when we say we're powerless over alcohol, we're talking about two things. We're powerless over choice, whether we can drink, whether we can choose not to drink and control how much we drink.
I can't choose not to drink. I can't choose not to take the first drink. And I can't control how much I drink when I drink.
And when you got a mind that can't keep you from the first one and a body that can't keep you from the second drink, you're going to die. And I didn't understand that as my problem because what we didn't we didn't use the Big Book. Basically, in all honesty, people didn't bring them to the meetings.
We had some kind of tucked in a little basket in the corner in case a big book study broke out. And uh um so you know, you could just wander in and and and not have your big book and still be able to read the big book during the study. But if if if we understand that that's what our problem really is and we understand that that if if we don't have power and we need power to stay sober and that's exactly what these steps were designed to do.
I thought the steps were all about, you know, turning Tom into a good boy and and helping me, you know, play well with others and kissing make up with everybody and and all this other garbage cuz that's kind of how it was presented to me. You know, if you get depressed, work the steps. If you're going to get if you're getting divorced, do the steps.
If if this is happening to you, do the steps. It wasn't anything about if you don't want to ever drink again for the rest of your life forever, do the steps. It was never presented like that.
was always presented as a solution to a a current problem. And if I'm not having any major current problems, I'm not I'm not going to do these steps. I remember I had um I had I had like 15 years and um I was in a meeting.
It was it was a men's meeting. I don't know what the topic was. Again, it doesn't matter.
But when you have 15 years, you know you're going to get called on. And and sure enough, they they called on me. They thought I might have something to say when, you know, the best I could do for 15 years is maybe make people laugh a little bit and throw some BS out there and um, you know, we could all tiptoe through the tulips together.
But I never had anything of substance. And this time I had nothing. I hadn't spent the time that I should have been spending preparing what I was going to say in the event that I got called on.
And and of course, when the topic changes every time someone talks, you got to you got to change what you're going to say. And you know, you want to relate to this guy and you want to relate to this guy and it's all about relating to everything. And and I was just there.
I was like, I got to be honest with you guys. I feel like I'm going to drink again. And and I don't think it's going to be today or this month or this year.
I don't know when it's coming, but I'm I'm on this track and and I can feel it. And I can't derail this train. I can't I can't make a shift.
And and and the I mean these are my friends. These are I'm not I'm not knocking these people. All All we did with each other is shared with us with other people what was shared with us just like everybody in AA is doing.
Um there's there's nothing nobody means any harm. Everybody means the very best for everybody. But the advice was was kind of man-made and not not big book made, not not based on any real experience.
And so they came up and and suggested that I I start coming early and making the coffee and doing other stuff, doubling up on my meetings. And I'm thinking, you know, if if I got to double double up in these open depression meetings, I'm going to die. If if that's the answer to this, I'm I'm dead.
And and a couple years later, uh, the thought came into my head and and I had plenty of time to think about the consequences, to think about everything that ever happened before I got to the program. All the bad stuff, all the, you know, going to jail, writing bad checks, etc., etc., all of all these jams that we seem to get into. There's no way in hell I wanted to go back to that stuff.
and and this time I had done a really good job at at putting the outside part of my life together. You know, I'd gone to, you know, UT, got a bachelor's and masters, um had my own business, was making decent money, great wife, great kid, no triggers, nothing bad is going on, no issues, no nothing. So, you know, here I am for 17 years looking out for these triggers and and there aren't any.
And that thought comes into my head and I start playing these tapes and I start thinking about what will happen if I if I drink and and in spite of everything that I thought about and I think I was pretty accurate except for the dying part. Um I drank anyway and I was I was I was absolutely completely shocked that that all the advice that I had heard in AA for so many years didn't work. You know, I I played the tape through as well as anybody could play it through.
I could remember everything. I could predict what would happen. And it didn't work.
I And I never quit going to meetings. I would My meeting attendance was at that time it was about two or three a week cuz it's all I could take. But I I never had any spots where I wasn't going to meetings.
I was I was doing what I was told to do and it failed. And and when I got, you know, when I finally got sober again, I I met some people who understood the big book and how to work this program out of the book. And when I started studying this thing, my eyes started to open up.
And I I got news for you. There's a lot of stuff that they didn't tell us um about a I thought that I pretty much had heard everything and seen everything that could possibly be seen or heard in the program and and we missed a lot of stuff. the the people that came before us.
Um, on page 24 in the big book, and if you have a book at home, I would encourage you to to go home and and pick out this paragraph and underline it, pan it yellow, cut it out, tape it to your mirror, something. This this is the money shot in the big book right here. Um, there we're we're talking about the the mental obsession.
This is on page 24. The first part of the book, the doctor's opinion, first 23 pages is all about the physical part of of the disease, the the allergy, the the phenomenon of craving. When I put booze in my body, I trigger a physical craving for more alcohol.
I could never just go out and have six, seven or eight drinks, which I didn't think was asking too much, and stop. I could never do it. I could never go out and get drunk and then go home, get up, go to work the next morning, pay my bills, all this other stuff.
It was it was always I always drank until I passed out or I fell asleep or I ended up in handcuffs or I ran out. Um, some of your housewives are are good. I mean, you you guys you guys drink Nyquil and Listerine.
I never thought of that stuff. Otherwise, you know, I never would have run out. I would have just gone down to Safeway or Skags or whatever grocery store is nearby and kept drinking all night.
That's what happens when I put booze in my body. That that that phenomenon, that craving does not occur in normal drinkers. It does not occur.
It separates us from from the rest of the crowd. If we're going to talk about what it is to be an alcoholic, we need to boil out the stuff that isn't an alcoholic. Okay?
That's one of the things that separates us from from the other 90% or whatever that that don't seem to have caught the genetic bullet. Um, so when I put booze in my body, I crave booze. The answer to the craving is is don't drink.
If you don't put alcohol in your body, you cannot physically crave it. Can't happen after 2 or 3 days, 4 days, 5 days, we're detox, the physical craving is gone. My problem is though is I can't keep from picking up that first drink and triggering that craving.
I've got this this this mental disorder, this this malady that prevents me from from being able to stay sober for any length of time on thinking through the drink or playing the tapes through or all this other stuff. It says that the fact is that most alcoholics for reasons yet obscure have lost the power of choice in drink. our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent.
We are unable at certain times to bring to our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink. What this is telling me is that you know put the plug in the jug and think through the drink is is a swear word.
It's It's erroneous. It doesn't work for real alcoholics. How did I stay sober?
Couldn't tell you. I couldn't write a book about it. And if I could, I wouldn't suggest you copy what I did.
I don't know. The truth is is when when I trust my mind to keep me sober. When I go through these exercises, I pull out my little trigger list or or you guys know what I'm talking about.
It ain't going to help me stay sober. The first time around, I was I was too far away from the last drink by the time we started talking about the steps to feel enough pain to do the work. Okay, this time I wasn't.
This time, see, last time I knew that if I kept going, dying was a possibility. This time around, I knew that that dying was around the corner. And I was pretty I was pretty messed up.
I mean, all my hope, all my hope was gone. You know, I after I relapsed, I had gone back to my old meetings. You know, I tried to get sober again and and people avoided me.
Not cuz they were rude, I don't think, but I think because they didn't know what to say. I think that's probably most of it. The ones that did speak up said something like, "Well, man, I'm sure you've been sure glad you've been out there doing research for me, and you know, I'm glad to see that it's not any good anymore." Well, wait a minute.
the the suffering alcoholics are supposed to carry the message into the room. Is is that the deal? We're so selfish that we're going to we're going to try to stay sober on somebody else's story.
This paragraph is telling me I can't I can't stay sober on my own damn story. What makes me think that that my story is going to keep anybody else sober or that their story is going to keep me sober? our our our drunkaloges and and war stories are are appropriate when we're meeting somebody for the first time and we're exposing them to the program, but once they're here, that that time is over.
They're here to hear some solution. And and what I heard was, you know, keep coming back, put the plug in the jug, you know, thanks for doing my research for me, blah blah blah blah blah. I was like, I'm dead.
I'm just I'm going to die from this thing. And I really believed that. I believed that that what I had experienced for 17 years was AA and that if I went back to that I was going to die and and I didn't have any hope of anything else until I I found these guys that were studying the book and and they showed me this stuff.
They showed me exactly what my problem was in step one. Can't keep myself from the first drink. Can't keep myself from the second or 15th.
and and it goes on and on and on and there's nothing I can do without a power greater than myself to to get sober. You know, I told you I thought that that the steps were all about turning me into a good boy. It's got nothing to do with that.
The the steps are are designed to be worked quickly in a week or two and they're designed to remove everything that's blocking me from that power. the the selfishness, self-centerness, fear, resentment. They're designed to identify and and and tease out those things that are blocking me from that power that I have to have if I'm going to live.
And that's what these steps are all about. And so when when they were put to me in that light, it kind of made sense that, you know, this this is the solution. Lack of power is my problem.
Power is my solution. I got a bunch of stuff blocking me from my solution. We got to do some work to get that stuff unblocked.
And then I'm good. I'm golden. And and it and it worked.
I mean, I I I took these steps in 12 days. I started sponsoring the guy when I had 3 weeks. I I wish he was still sober so I could brag about him some more.
>> But, you know, he he wasn't done. He He just wasn't done. But it's not because it's not because he didn't have somebody that that knew how to take him through the work and how to explain to him what his problem was.
And and from that point on, I've been I've been out doing all sorts of stuff that I never thought I would do. I always I always thought, you know, I did detox meetings and treatment center meetings my first three, four or five years and I had a good time and I would go and I'd make them smile and pass out chips and all this other stuff. U but after a few years of that, my thinking is, well, you know, shoot, we'll just let these new guys do it.
You know, it's their turn. you know, let them, you know, cut their teeth on this stuff. I'll sit back and if a newcomer wanders into the meeting where I'll take up a chair and that way I can say I'm doing 12step work because the newcomer has to see someone here to get some hope.
And so that was that was my cop out for for what I was doing. That's that's you know my dishonesty. I I knew I wasn't doing much.
I knew I was skating behind the bare minimum and and part of doing the bare minimum is not doing anything else and and I just I just kind of got comfortable with that stuff and and started doing that stuff and started lying to myself about what it was to carry this message, you know, giving people my phone number, telling them to call me, all this other stuff. And and if they if they called, I mean, I didn't know what to say to them anyway, but they didn't call. you know that that most of them don't call unless you got some kind of strong message that makes them want to have what you have.
But nobody wanted what I had. I had nothing to offer them. You know, I was I was talking about how how a lot of emphasis has been placed on the fellowship.
And I don't I don't want to knock the fellowship park cuz I've got some some great friends, bigbook thumpers, non- Bigbook thumpers, you know, whatever in a people that I've been friends with for 20 years that I still talk to my all my buddies in Austin that are still around. I talk to them a bunch. I I see them when I go down there and and I I cherish these these relationships.
However, I I think I think one of our problems, one of one of the ways we could improve things is if we back off the fellowship part and maybe go in more a little little more into the the program part of the deal so that when these new people come, they've got something to hear besides, you know, come play poker with us or let's go do this or let's go do that. How about let's go take these steps. You can have a spiritual awakening as a result of the steps and and you can have the coolest life you ever imagined.
You know, the the coolest thing in the world is is to is to take a guy from from square one just just shaking and vibrating in his shoes and going through this work and and watching them over 7 days, 8 days, 9 days completely change to where, you know, day one they're they're just hopeless. And on day 10 or 15, they're like, I got to go to a detox meeting and tell some people about this stuff. You you can't shut these guys up when when they go through the work and and get that that experience.
I thought I had the experience. I I thought that, you know, because I did the third step prayer every day that that I was golden. I I thought that's all I had to do.
And and we all know from, you know, most of us from our own experience that prayer isn't enough. If if prayer worked so well, most of us wouldn't need a most of us would have prayed our way into sobriety, but it doesn't work like that. It's it's the action that we have to take through the steps.
Um, you know, in the forward to the second edition, it's kind of funny. It took me 17 8 years in the program to to realize that our fellowship is is named after a book. the the basic text of a alcoholics anonymous were named after this book.
It says um they're they're going through the history of of the first edition of the book and they're talking about the membership had reached about 100 men and women. The fledgling society which had been nameless now began to be called Alcoholics Anonymous from the title of its own book. So we got this fellowship named after a book.
Call me crazy, but but we should be doing what's in the book. The the fellowship should be based on what's in the book and not all these other little techniques and devices to stay sober for 24-hour period. You know what what we've done is we've designed little gimmicks and little tricks to help people stay sober for 24 hours instead of staying sober for good and all.
And and that's where we get a little things get a little dicey and we start to lose people because, you know, we tell them, "Okay, now wake up at, you know, 8:00 in the morning, say your third step prayer, call me, call your sponsor, and then you can make it to a noon meeting." That's 1 hour. You You won't drink. You can go to lunch with everybody afterwards.
In fact, a bunch of them go to Lubies. You can go and get a really great deal on the Lann platter and you can sit around and fellowship till about 2:30. Go home, take a nap.
That'll kill a couple hours. You can get up, have dinner, that'll kill an hour. Then you can make it to an 8:00 meeting and and if you really want to be part of us, well, you got to go to Denny's with us afterwards.
And we'll sit there until 10:30, 11:00 drinking coffee, pissing off the waitress cuz uh she quit making money on us, you know, 2 hours ago. And then all you got to do is drive home, thank God for keeping you sober, go to sleep, and do it all over again tomorrow. and we'll have all sorts of tricks for you to stay sober for a 24-hour period.
What a what a tough way to to do this thing. I mean, that's that's hard. That that's real hard.
You know, one of the things that that happened with us is is we quit we quit qualifying people to see if they're real alcoholics. And and you know, we're we're in this this age of we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. We don't want to say anything tough or controversial.
We want everybody to feel comfortable. Um, somehow we got it in our minds that it's better to to love someone to death than to piss them off a little bit and help them get to God as quick as possible. But that's that's what I did.
That's what, you know, people around me did is, you know, we would just we wouldn't say anything. We'd let we'd let someone sit in in one of our meetings and talk and talk and talk about some selfish self-centered stuff when we know in the book that the that the selfishness and self-centerness has to get removed or we die. If this stuff doesn't get removed, we're going to drink again and to drink is to die.
But we're we're allowing these people to to engage in something that's that could kill them. They're not focused on on anybody else. They're not focused on the newcomer.
They're not focused on other people. They're focused on our on themselves. And to allow people to do this for for years and years is really kind of a disservice.
Um, you know, sponsors, friends, you know, talk to these people, d point them towards the steps, point them towards God. I one of the biggest kept secrets in uh in AA is that we can't work on ourselves. Um, countless people come in and and I hear them talking in the meetings.
They're talking about, "I'm working on myself. I'm working on my character defects. I'm working on this.
I'm working on this." The book's real clear that that we can't remove this stuff ourselves. We can't do it. But we spend all sorts of time trying.
The the truth is if we take these steps and we we have this psychic change, this this spiritual awakening, if you will, and and focus on helping others get to it, God fixes all that stuff. But nobody believes it cuz they they don't try it. They're they're still kind of stuck on this on this notion that, you know, a is a self-help group and and we can come in and talk about our problems.
And if we can talk about them enough, we won't have to drink over them. The truth is we don't drink because of our problems. I don't drink because, you know, of my childhood or cuz my dad was a jerk or my mom had square nipples or, you know, that's that's a little pause for laughter.
Um, we don't drink over our issues. Otherwise, everybody that ever had a problem or an issue would be an alcoholic. We drink because being sober sucks.
It's It's real clear. We drink because we are restless, irritable, and discontent. No matter what's going on, whether life is great or life is in the toilet, we are naturally dissatisfied, naturally unhappy, never we we never feel like we we belong in the world.
I mean, it's it's kind of like it's kind of like, you know, you ever watch a dog do a couple laps on the carpet looking for just the the best spot to sit down and when he finally finds that that right spot, he just drops and everything's okay. We're like that dog going around in circles and we never find our spot unless we drink. If we drink, we can get okay.
If we drink, we're not restless. We're not irritable. We're not discontent.
It's when we don't drink that that we see our alcoholism, the the the the absolute self-absorption and and and just the the need to to arrange everything in our lives just the way we want them only to find out that once we get everything the way we want them, it isn't what we wanted anyway. I could never get happy with anything. I always wanted to be doing something and once I started doing it, it was never the right thing and I'd go try to do something else.
Not happy. Not happy. not happy.
I was always running around trying to get happy. And the only thing that ever fixed that was the booze. My problem is is is that my solution to my problem, the booze, turned into a really big problem.
And you know, when it quits working, we need to do something drastic like do these steps. You know, I was I remember being 22 23 years old thinking, you know, this this is a little drastic this this getting sober and and going to AA and all this stuff. You know, was I really that bad?
And that, you know, that that's how we think. We don't understand exactly what the real problem was. If I had understood what the problem was back then, I might be up here with 20 years today.
Or or maybe not. I don't know. However, if if I had gotten the message when I came for the message, things could have turned out differently.
Paul could still be alive. All sorts of things could have happened. There's could be a lot of people that that we love that we've seen go back out that could still be here with us today, you know.
And and trust me, it wasn't cuz I didn't want it. I didn't drink cuz I didn't want to want to be sober. I I did want to be sober.
I drank anyway because I had no defense. And these folks that come to us have no defense. that lasts longer than a week or a month.
So if if what it says on page 24 is true, if we got a week or a month before we lose our defenses, we got a week or a month to get to this solution and get to it quickly. Um I'll be right back. Just like Dan everybody else I've talked to in the program, >> >> Most of us think that the steps take a long time cuz we were told they take a long time.
That, you know, step one, you got to do some writing. Step two, you got to do some writing. Step three, well, when you're ready, we'll let you take step three cuz you got to believe in God before you take step three.
Step four, depending on how old you are, it's going to be 40, 50, 60 pages. Do it early. You know, step five is going to be this 8hour torture session.
Step step six and seven, well, I don't know if I want to remove everything. And so, we just sit there. Eight and nine, you know, we we think about making our amends.
By the by the time we get to it, we're pretty much out of gas. And so, you know, going around and making amends isn't a very attractive proposition. And 10, 11, and 12, I I can't do those cuz I haven't finished step 9.
And so this was my understanding of of how the work was done. And it wasn't presented in a very appealing manner. Um, and that's not what it says in the book.
In fact, it's it's it's a it's a huge cry from what it says in the book. Step one is like we read every meeting is a is a pertinent idea. When when I take a guy through the work here, I'll just I'll just pick on someone.
Jason actually took him through the work. We're going to sit down and and I'm going to go through the doctor's opinion in the first 43 pages. We're going to talk about this craving that we have and and how it triggers, you know, a craving for more alcohol.
We're going to talk about this mental obsession. You know, did you ever have a good reason not to drink and drink anyway? Yes.
Have you done it a bunch? Oh, yeah. Do you think if if you didn't get help, you could stop drinking on your own?
No. Great. You're done with step one.
Step two, where you at with God? Like him, hate him? Uh, you know, he's okay.
Well, let me let me explain something to you. You know, if if you take belief in God and put it on a on a zero to 100 scale, where zero is there ain't no God and 100 is I just play golf with him. You don't got to get to 100.
I thought you had to get to 100. My the way my sponsor was was working with me, I had to get to 100 to move on to step three. You just got to believe that you can get to one.
You don't even have to get off a zero. You got to believe that you can get off the mark. And if you can do that, you're in.
You are in the club. You know how it works. We we we read this every meeting.
You know, God could and would if he were sought. It means if he were sought, not if he were found. I don't have to find God and believe in God 100% to to take step three.
I just got to take step three. I thought step three was just a little lip service kind of like, "Hi, God. I'm here too.
Help me." And and step three is actually a pretty damn big deal if you if you look at the words. Um it's it's a it's a big deal that that we're striking with God. You know, offer myself to thee, devote with me, and do with me as thou wilt.
We're pretty much offering everything to him and he can do whatever he wants. You know, you're you're the driver. I'll ride shotgun.
Whatever you say goes. Um, relieve me of the bondage of self, which on the fir on the previous pages we've we've determined can kill us. We're asking him to remove this thing that that can kill us.
And if you do that, I will better do your will. Take away my difficulties, which at this point isn't the booze. the booze is already gone by the time we're on step three.
Now, we're talking about our difficulties and and and I would submit to you and I I know this is going to it's just going to rub some people the wrong way and I'm sorry, but what if what if some of these some of this baggage we're carrying around, some of this regret, some of this self-pity from things that happened to us, some of these, you know, issues, abuse, incest, whatever. What if this stuff is a spiritual problem and can be removed by God? Just think about that.
Wouldn't that be cool? What if this stuff is spiritual? What if, you know, I wasn't responsible for what happened to me when I was five, but I'm damn sure responsible for carrying the resentment around for 38 years, and I used it to justify a lot of my behavior.
What if this stuff is spiritual in nature? What if that stuff is the self-centerness? Wouldn't it be cool if he would take that away and all we have to do is um bear witness to those you would help of his power, his love, and his way of life.
Go tell everybody about it. How cool would that be? That's that's that's happened with me.
I mean, that's that's what it's like to be me. I don't I don't have any regrets about the past. Um, wish I had a different past, but good God, I mean, I I use I use my past, my history to to carry this message and and it's it's turning into one of the biggest assets for me.
Relapsing with 17 years sucks and and it's a real ego beating to to cash in, you know, a 1987 soy date, and I hated that happening. However, there's no way in hell I would have gotten up on at this uh lectern tonight and shared any of this stuff with you guys if I hadn't gone through that and if I hadn't found some guys that understood how to do the work out of the book the way the guys did it back in the 30s when the success rates were through the ceiling. Cool.
So, maybe this stuff is is spiritual in nature and maybe it requires a spiritual solution. Just something to think about. I'm not saying, you know, go fire your therapist.
I'm just asking you to look at look at the same thing in a different light and and see what comes up. Maybe take it to God in prayer and meditation and ask him to direct your thinking on this and and see what comes out of it. If if God can get us sober, he can fix a whole bunch of other stuff.
We just got to trust that that maybe he can. Most of us aren't there. I understand that.
Um that's what we're doing in step three. We're we're making a deal. God, you do this stuff for me.
I'll do this stuff for you. And the way we get started on that is by taking the rest of the steps. So, you know, yeah, it is kind of a decision to take the rest of the steps.
But we got to understand this is where we're telling God, we'll go to any length. You do this, I'll do this. Cool.
Step four. Here's an example right here. You guys have all seen this, Mr.
Brown. I kind of wish I was Mr. Brown.
That guy that guy seems to be having quite a bit of fun with without any real consequences except uh Bill Wilson hating his guts. You can use a legal pad. You can use a notebook paper.
We've got these little worksheets that we use. If if you do it like it's described in the book, it takes about an hour, maybe an hour and a half. This is not an exercise in uncovering all your dark little secrets and bringing them to the surface and sharing them and and holding crystals and lighting incense and and feeling all good about yourself.
You know, that kind of stuff is really more of an exercise in self-centeredness than identifying our part in this stuff. What this step is designed to do specifically is to tease out the exact nature of your wrongs, which you're going to admit in step five. We're not admitting the wrongs.
We're admitting the nature of them. And the nature of them is going to be something like we're afraid, we're selfish, self-centered, inconservative of others, um, dishonest, whatever. That's the nature of our wrong.
So, when we go to step five, what I do with guys is I take the four step out of their hands. I don't want them sitting there reading it to me cuz they're going to focus on the column two stuff, the the reason for the resentment and then we're just going to get all wrapped up themselves. I'll read it to them and we'll do a few words on on what happened so that I'm clear on what the deal is.
Then we're going to talk about what they did, what their part in this deal was. And by the time we get done with step five, they're going to be so sick with selfishness and self-centerness that that doing six and seven, becoming willing to have God remove that stuff and then asking him to do it is an absolute piece of cake. Step six, the end of step five takes an hour.
You go home, sit quietly for 60 minutes, review the work you've done, make sure you're cool with it, make sure you understand step one, all this other stuff. Step seven takes 11 seconds. It's just a prayer.
It's just a prayer. Step eight, we made a list. We got a lot of it from four step.
There might be some people that that didn't get on there. I I just have people write a separate list. List everybody you ever harmed.
Then we get together. We go over we go over how to make the amends, how to never go in and say, "I'm sorry, cuz that's just lame." But how to restore these people, how to get them free. This is our our first experience helping others, helping them get free of what we did to them.
And that's the coolest feeling in the world. Step uh step 10. A lot of us think we have to finish nine before going on to 10.
Page 84, it tells us something completely different. Um we've gone at the end of the promises, we've gone through the promises of step nine. And then it says this thought, meaning that the promises will materialize if we work for them.
This thought brings us to step 10, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. We vigorously commence this way of living as we cleaned up the past. While we're making our amends, we start on step 10.
And step 10 is where we lose half the fellowship because they won't follow these directions. Uh continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. That sounds like our fourth column from the inventory from the four stop stuff are the exact nature of our wrongs.
We keep looking out for this. Just because you ask God to remove it in six and seven don't mean that it ain't going to come back. This is where we catch it.
And this means this doesn't this isn't step 11. This is step 10. We continue to watch this.
It's it's done continuously and and when they crop up, we ask God at wants to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately. Not tomorrow, not next week, immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone.
Then we can resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code. That means we're going to stop exerting our will in everything that we do and and just kind of, you know, go with the flow, go with God's will rather than our will.
But where we lose people is is they think that that their little resentments and their little episodes of dishonesty are too small to call us, so they don't do it. I've got a guy right now that, you know, I just I just had a we'll call it a talk about this stuff where where he was deciding what's good enough to call about and what's not instead of instead of what God's deciding. This book means what it says.
And and if it says to call when this stuff comes up, you call. What he doesn't know is that if you keep doing this and you keep doing prayer and meditation, you keep working with others, you're not going to be calling every day. God's going to watch your back.
If if you make it your mission to carry this message and help other drugs get sober, God doesn't want you jammed up with all sorts of resentment and fear. Think about it. This is new to me.
I mean, this is new stuff to me. We never talked about this stuff ever. Um, you know, these contraband big books never made it through the door.
All I can I don't have enough time to talk about step 11. All I can say is if you ain't doing it, do it. It's the coolest thing in the world.
Back in the 30s, these guys meditated way more than they prayed. God likes to hear from us, but he likes it better when he can get a word in edgewise. And that's what the meditation does.
And you might not experience a burning bush or anything like that. However, when you go to that and you get quiet and you ask him to direct your thinking, those intuitive thoughts on on that stuff that used to mystify us and baffle us, we'll know how to handle this stuff and we'll find a deeper level of peace than we ever will when we when we uh pray. Just just a suggestion.
working with the others is is um well they start the they start the chapter with with practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. Now if if this is what's going to keep people sober more than anything, why do we tell them that they have to wait a year or two years to do it? Think about it.
Here you got this problem. It's going to kill you and you can have your solution in 11 and 1/2 more months if you make it. It means what it says.
These guys back in the 30s when the success rates were so high, all they were doing was was taking the steps, looking for other drunks, and taking them through the work. They didn't have AA meetings. They couldn't do 9090 cuz there weren't 90.
They all they did was go out and work with others and and have these little meetings once a week where all they talk about and you had to be recovered to talk had to have taken the steps. They talked about how they're going to go find more drunks and how to better work with them. That's what the AA meetings were like contrary to to what some of some of the meetings are today.
Anyway, um it's probably a good time to stop or we can keep going. 10:00 anybody. Uh congratulations to the people that are celebrating tonight.
That is uh that is real real cool. Um anyway, thank you for letting me me share with you guys tonight. Um hope I get out of here alive.
I love you all. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.
Until next time, have a great day. >>