Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> My name is Jim Bach.

I'm alcoholic. >> It's good to be here. It's good to be sober.

My Friday day is November 19th, 1987. My home group, as he said, is the sponsorship group. We meet Sunday night in Chattam at 8:30 and it's an awesome meeting.

It's good to uh be down here. It's uh always a uh an honor and a privilege to be able to speak at an alcoholic synonymous meeting. Um I only wish you invited me a couple weeks ago so there was something left to steal.

With with with that said, it's a uh it's really an honor and a privilege to be uh standing behind one of these things and not entering a plea. I am I like to drink and I'm going to talk about drinking and if you don't like drinking like I like drinking, you might as well leave now. I love the drink.

I just I I love it. I love drinking like like I I never loved anything, you know, because what happens when I drink, you guys shape up. All you drink all you girls get real hot, you know, and all you guys aren't so scary.

I mean, when I drink, something happens. It's just absolutely marvelous, you know. I didn't think that uh I could ever be an alcoholic because I I tried to avoid drinking every day and and maybe if uh you know if the if they rewrote one part of the big book, you know, maybe that little part where it says more about alcoholism then you know we we uh switched from scotch to brandy and we took a trip and not Coke a trip and that sort of thing.

And if if I were to rewrite it, I probably would have wrote, you know, we we smoked some crack and had some uh you know talk to my inner child or you know did some heroin or something along those lines. Uh because I live this with this delusion that someday I'll be able to control and enjoy my drinking. I mean that's that's that's a great delusion that I have is that you know one one day I'm going to be able to control and enjoy it you know and and uh I I not able to do that.

You know, if I'm enjoying it, there's no control. And if I'm controlling it, I'm not I'm not having a very good time. I am I'll back up to uh before I was drinking because that uh that's who I became when I stopped drinking.

You know, when I got out of rehab, it it felt like I was back in first grade. And what it was like in first grade, I you know, I was the new kid in the new school and we had moved to, you know, many towns away. And I looked at these kids and they're all doing better than I was.

and I looked at their sneakers and that's how you tell how well somebody's doing in in first grade or in rehab and I'm looking at these kids and they they had it going on, man. I was like, "Oh, God, look at these." And kids and it it always seems like I'm the only stranger like like maybe we just all met today from, you know, distant cities, but after 20 minutes or so, it seems like everybody else knows each other. and and I don't know how I don't know how to do that, you know, and these kids seem to get to know each other very quickly and they're all best friends and I got to, you know, sort of break into the club and I don't know what to say.

I don't know how to say it. And I'm not really good at communicating, you know, because when I'm thinking about what to say after you say something, you might keep talking and what what comes out of my mouth was relevant about 5 or 10 minutes ago and and you look at me weird, you know, and I'm a little over sensitive, so I might hit you because I don't like you guys screwing with me. And it seems like everybody's always screwing with me.

But this this day in first grade, these kids were doing really well. And I I want to impress people. I don't think and and it it's not something that comes naturally letting down my armor and being real with people to get to let them to get to know me.

Okay. What what what I do is I put on a show. Everything's a performance.

I each person I run into it seems like my life had become an endless series of auditions by first grade because I I want to say the right thing. I want to do the right thing. secretly inside what I'm saying is love me.

Please just treat me right. I'll I'll be whoever you want me to be, you know, and and and that's the way my life is. And I, you know, this day I want to impress kids.

So the teacher asked a question and my hand darts up. I answer the question, I got it wrong. Now I think she's screwing with me.

I can't believe, you know, she's picking on me my first day and I started thinking about what people are thinking about me, you know, and I was always able to um interpret things better than everybody else. I was born with this skill where I can look at somebody and know that they're a complete You know what I mean? I look at you and I can almost just about read your mind.

you know, I I I've always been able to um interpret facial expressions, body language, like a little at this end of somebody's, you know, you know, statement to me. And um you know, this day in first grade, I'm I'm like freaking out. You know, I I I feel like they're judging me, like, you know, they think I came to school on a short bus, like I got some mental problems.

I don't know what to do. So, I'm I'm going to redeem myself. She asked another question.

My hand darts up. I I answered that, but I got it wrong. Now I think this lady's a complete because she's screwing me.

I couldn't have gotten two wrong. They're out to get me. My first day.

They're making my life miserable. Now I It seems like I can feel people looking at me. I don't know about you guys, but when I do something completely stupid, the pressure and the anxiety just floats in the air.

It's it's it it makes walking difficult because there's so much tension and stress in the air. And I'm sitting there, I'm oh my god, this sucks. And you know, I don't know what to do.

I got to get the hell out of here. And I'm I'm measuring my breaths because I think I'm breathing too hard and maybe I'm not sitting up straight enough or maybe I'm sitting too straight or maybe my socks don't match or maybe I should have sat over there instead of over here. And I and I and I play these mind games with myself and and I'm freaking out.

And it couldn't have gotten worse, but I had to go to the bathroom. Now I've got to visualize everything I do before I do it. And I'm thinking, okay, I'll put my hand up, but the whole class in unison is gonna say, "Hey, you're not asking a question.

put your hand up or the teacher's going to say, "Oh, oh, okay. Yes, kid wasn't, you know, oh, even you can get this one before you go, you know, and I'll get that one wrong." And I can't handle it, but I've got good ideas. I always have really good ideas.

And my ideas pe your pants. So, I'm sitting there and I'm going and for the first few seconds, it wasn't a bad idea. You're like, "Ah." And then I looked down and I was like, "Holy sh, this is a hell of a lot more than I thought, right?" And then then I then I start thinking, "Wait a second.

This is first period. Oh, it's going to be a long day." You know, now that's what it's like when I'm sober. It doesn't it's not getting any better.

I mean, year after year, it changes a little bit. On occasion, I'll engage in some sort of behavior, obsessive behavior, which makes me look wonderful for you. I'll study.

I'll study night and day around the clock every day of the week and I and I'll get a really good grade and and the teacher will say, "Oh, that's great. Look at what he did." You know, but it doesn't last long enough. You guys don't appreciate me as much as I need to be appreciated.

I mean, it's it's not like it's not like every day is my birthday and and we're all going to celebrate. I mean, I'd like it to be that way, but nobody wants to play along, you know? Nobody really loves me as much as I need to be loved.

No matter what I accomplish, it can be sports. It can be finances. It could be anything.

Nobody ever appreciates me as much as I need to be appreciated. For me to be at ease, for me to be relaxed, for me to communicate without feeling like I'm being judged, you know, and and I I remember even a year later, the teacher comes in with a with a stack of books. She hands them out to everybody.

She goes, "Class, great news. What we're going to do is we're going to read out loud from this book. Everybody gets to read a paragraph.

We're not going to, you know, do our normal lesson today. And everybody thinks it's cool because we're not going to do anything. But I'm freaking out because there's like a spotlight on me.

This is like an audition. This is like a Broadway production. Oh, I got to read this freaking parag.

Oh my god. I count the kids. Count the paragraphs.

Okay. I'm reading and and I'm getting through it. I'm doing okay.

And it's getting close. I'm freaking out a little bit, but I'm I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.

and then some girl three seats over reads three paragraphs. Now, for most people in the in the class, that would not be grounds for aggravated assault. Okay.

Okay. But this girl is out to get me, you know, and somebody has got to teach her a lesson. Okay.

I don't know why I always have to be the one teaching everybody a lesson, okay? But somebody's got to do it, right? You know, fast forward a couple years later, there's a dance.

You know, girls on one side, guys on the other. Seventh grade, nobody's doing much of anything in seventh grade. So, I see we see these kids out there, there's a guy and a girl dancing, you know, kind of like goofy kids, right?

And we start making fun of them because that's what we do, right? But 20 minutes later, there's more kids dancing. Half hour later, a lot of people are dancing.

An hour later, a lot of people. And I'm going, "Oh my god, who am I going to pick? Who am I going to pick?" I would have gone with any of the girls.

Okay? if no one was watching, right? I'm thinking, "Oh, that one.

This one. I gota, you know, she's got to like say yes." You know what I mean? Because if she says no, I'm gonna be destroyed.

You know, I'm sounding out in my head what I'm going to say. Who I'm going to pick? And I finally pick my girl and I'm okay.

I'll say this, she'll say this. We're back and forth. But if she is if she says no, I have to be able to inflict as much pain on her as I feel myself because I'm not going down alone, right?

Oh. So I I get my mark. I'm walking out there and all of a sudden the music's going, everybody's dancing.

Oh my god, you don't know how to dance. I'm like, "Oh my god." Oh, but some kid over here's bopping up and down with the music. I can bop, right?

So I'm like, "Okay, I know." So I'm going like this. But some some kid over here, he's going like this and I'm going, "Oh, look at this." So I'm I'm swinging. I'm jumping.

I'm boppinging. And you Someone stops the stairs. They're going, "What are you doing?

What? It looks like I'm having a seizure." Like, "What the hell's wrong with this guy?" Right? Oh, You know, I I got to I got to I got to regroup.

So, I got I go and I stand against the wall. I'm I'm trying to get it together and I'm like, "Oh my god, please." But the dance is over and I'm a loser and I'm not I'm not part of the gang. I'm not I'm not at the party.

I'm on the outside looking in, you know, and this sucks. I can't do this, you know. My life's not getting better.

I'm not out growing this awkwardness. And this goes on for year, you know, it's like year after year after year, I'm just having these problems communicating with people. And I I don't I don't know how to do it.

And and what was what was about to happen was my life was going to change. My first night drunk, you could have diagnosed me as alcoholic. My very first night drunk.

Because what happens for me does not happen for normal people. My first night drunk, I changed. I always thought you drink in the morning, drink by yourself, drink every day, then you'll be an alcoholic.

But my first night drunk, I was an alcoholic. And what happened was this kid Mark calls me up and Mark was a bad kid. I love bad kids.

If you're a normal, well-balanced guy and you come up to me trying to have a conversation, I think you want to have sex. I'm like, what? You know who the my birthday.

What do you care? You know I and and I get in a lot of fights. You know, I don't know how to deal with people.

I I What happens when I let somebody get close to me and have a normal kind of connected intimate sort of relationship, my feelings get hurt very very quickly, right? All of a sudden, I'm letting them play God, you know, and I feel devastated at some point or another because they're paying too much attention to somebody else. Right.

So, what happens is this kid, Mark, calls me up and he says, "Uh, Jimmy, I got a case of Budweiser and some girls." Now, I'm thinking about girls. I'm not thinking about Budweiser. Budweiser, you know, the older kids are drinking Budweiser, but girls, I'm thinking, "Oh my god, I've been trying I'm like 16.

I've been trying to get married since I'm five." Now, there's this girl that sat next to me in home room. Her name was Amy. I look over at Amy every day and I'm like, "Oh my god, a she was gorgeous." You know what I mean?

just one of these girls. All right. And I'm still, this is two years later.

I'm still sounding out what the hell I'm going to say. Okay. Because I'm afraid to make a move.

I cannot handle rejection. All right. So, I'm thinking that this girl's going to show up.

You know, maybe this girl Lisa, who was a friend of my sister, that said hello to me once. I mean, it doesn't take much for me to pull in love, right? I mean, you could be you could be waving to the guy behind me and I'm in love.

You're like, you know, I'm like, "Hey, baby." you know, and so what happens is this I'm excited. This car pulls, you know, up my driveway. I go running outside.

I go running down the car. Back door opens up and this girl hops out. And I take one look at her and I'm thinking, "Get back in the car before the neighbors." I'm like, "Where the hell's Amy?" Right?

And I look at I look in the back seat next to her, that's her ugly sister. I'm like, "Oh, what?" You know, there's like no good-looking girl in this car, right? But she goes, "Hop in.

Hop in the middle." I'm like, "Okay." You know, I mean, she was bigger than me. I'm not getting my ass kicked in the driveway. You know, okay, fine.

I get in, right? We're driving and I'm thinking, don't let anybody see me, you know? In fact, maybe you want to hit a tree.

I'll go through the windshield right from the back seat, you know? Just sucks, you know. But I look at this girl and she's got pretty eyes.

And if I can just keep it to the eyes, you know what I mean? I'll just make my whole move around the eyes, you know what I mean? I can move my hands around other, you know what I mean?

I got to stick to the eyes. So, I try I try I give my best shot and I'm like spitting and stammering and I can't talk to her, why am I so broken? I mean, if you can't talk to a girl that you find repulsive, how pathetic are you, right?

So, what happens is somebody hands me a Budweiser and I'm like, "Okay, whatever." I crack on. Ew, it tasted skunky. It had been sitting in the bushes for a couple days.

It's like, but nobody else seemed to notice. So, I keep I just drank it. Now, I don't know if it was the second, the third, the fourth beer, but something happened.

Something happens to me that does not happen to a non-alcoholic cuz I'm drinking. I'm drinking. I look over.

This girl lost 15 pounds. Oh my god. Oh my god.

She is beautiful. Oh my. And And what happened was I said something.

I don't know what I said. I don't know exactly how to say it, but I said something in a way that was just magical because I didn't think about what she was going to say. It wasn't like I'm, you know, coming with hat in hand begging for her, you know, approval, okay?

It was like I was doing I was doing her a favor, you know, cuz her eyes went from like this judgmental, you know, this like I hate you, you know, you piece of you know, to this girl who was like, "Oh, I want you." And it's just it was just like a glance, you know what I mean? I could see it in her eyes, you know, I that hungry look. It was like, oh, and you know, I figured I I'll I'll I'm a nice guy.

I'll take care of her, right? So, I said something and she laughed and she said something and I laughed. Next thing you know, we're having a conversation.

Now, that's a home run for a guy like me. You know, all of a sudden, I'm in the human race. I'm in the game.

I'm at the party. I'm not on the outside looking in. Alcohol saved me.

Alcohol allows me to do something I I I just can't do. Alcohol plugs me into a power that allows me to do things and say things and feel things that I don't know how to connect to any other way. I don't know how to live like that.

I don't know how to function with any degree of confidence before that period. Alcohol changed my life. All right.

And that night something happened. You know, that will only happen to an alcoholic because when I'm drinking, the phenomenon of craving kicks in, which means that when I start drinking, I take a drink and then the drink takes a drink. All bets are off.

I have no idea what the hell is going to happen. So, I start drinking and then I keep drinking and I can't stop drinking. Next thing you know, we're making out.

And I'm thinking, m Budweis are the king of beers. Yeah. Right.

And this is just fantastic. I cannot believe I waited so long to do this. Right.

But I keep drinking and next thing you know I'm kissing the wrong girl. But I know what to say. Alcohol allows me to say things and do things that I don't know how to do otherwise because this one's pissed cuz I'm kissing her sister and I'm like there's enough to go around.

I'll be right back to you. You know, and I I am so wonderful. She should just wait her turn, right?

But next thing you know, I hit my first bottom. Now, bottoms don't get me sober. They just give me, you know, an opportunity to get used to a situation I've yet to get used to.

>> You know, that night I'm laying face down on a gravel parking lot. I got cinders on my tongue, rocks in my face, rocks in my chest, and one of these girls is stepping on my back because apparently I said something. I mean, it's okay for Jenny Craig to give dining advice and not me.

Clearly oversensitive, right? But I I got used to laying in parking lots. It's a small price to pay for to join their human race, for a guy like me to live, to function.

Laying in parking lot's not bad. Fast forward through my drinking. First time, I'm sitting in the back of this police car and I got handcuffs on and I'm ducking and I'm embarrassed.

I'm humiliated. I cannot believe my my life sank this low. Now, if you're here because you got arrested the first time, the second time is so much easier.

It is so much easier. Believe me, it's it's it's not nearly as stressful. You wait three, four, five, six times later, you know what's going to happen.

>> You know what I mean? This is like a misdemeanor. It's not a big deal.

>> First time I got evicted, I'm embarrassed. I'm humiliated. They put the big sign on the wall on the door and it's like, "Oh my god, what are you going to do?

What? Oh shit." You know, the second time you get evicted, it's a little bit easier. You keep getting evicted, you don't have so much to move, right?

I'm like, "Oh my god, furniture head." You know, I remember one time I'm signing a lease. I have a check on the table. I'm sliding it across.

I know I'm getting evicted, right? Cuz you don't need an accountant. You don't have to do much math to understand it.

Month and a half security, first month's rent. That's two and a half months. Took him 5 months to throw me out.

I doubled my money by not paying the rent. You know, screws, right? Who cares, right?

I keep drinking and I keep drinking, you know, and then all of a sudden I'm I'm doing things that I I couldn't imagine doing, you know. One night I go out for a couple drinks, I'm under finance, I got a big job the next day. I know I can't I know I can't drink tonight, but somebody else is buying.

And I'm not the kind of guy that's going to insult somebody who wants to buy me drinks, you know. And I start drinking and I keep drinking and next thing you know 50 foot of guard rail, a telephone pole and two my buddies in surgery, you know, and I don't learn my lesson, okay? I don't learn from situations like that.

I get used to them, right? And I keep drinking and I've been in many total cars because I love to drink, you know, keep I keep drinking. Fast forward through my drinking, I have a couple drinks.

Next thing you know, I'm in New York doing an armed robbery. That seemed like a really good idea at the time. It just, you know, it's just like one of those things.

The stars aligned and you just come right, you know what I mean? I had never thought about it before that, but it seemed like a good idea, you know? Then one afternoon, we're just drinking Budweiser, you know, just a couple beers.

That's not like really drinking, right? We had this guy come to our home group. He goes, he's like, "They should have, you know, I heard all your stories.

You're doing heroin and smoking crack and drinking, you know, vodka and Jack Daniels. They should have a special program for people who just drink beer. And I yelled out, "They do." Alanon, now he he never came back to a group, but this afternoon I'm drink that afternoon I'm drinking I'm just drinking beer.

And a beer, come on. Seriously, beer is not, you know, but what happens is I put any alcohol in me. Now, it could be it could be cooking wine.

It could be mouthwash. It could be vanilla extract. I put it in my body and that stimulates a phenomenon of craving and I'm off to the races.

Cuz what happened was soon after that somebody pulled out some Jack Daniels. I love Jack Daniels. I love Jack Daniel.

You It's like eating. It's like you could chew it, you know? You know, I love drinking, you know?

And so I start chugging that and next thing you know, we pick up this guy hitchhiking and we decide to keep him, you know. Now, it it seemed really funny at the time. It was It was kind It was really hysterical at the time at the beginning part, you know what I mean?

Until he got lippy, you know, but I mean, it worked out. Fast forward through my drinking, I I I get into some situations right now. I've got a big family and it's good thing about big, you know, having a big family and lots of cousins and aunts and uncles and nephews.

I got a lot of places to crash. Okay, this couch here, this spare bedroom here, and if you keep drinking like I keep drinking, they're not going to last long, you know? And one by one, these people start becoming very narrow-minded about my drinking, you know?

Everybody's turning on me, you know what I mean? It's like the police one day, I'm I'm backing out of my driveway. I'm not even on the road yet.

They're I'm backing on my driveway and the lights go on. Guy like right up on my ass. He goes, "Ha up against the car.

I'm laying across the hood. He's sticking something in my back. I'm thinking, I hope it's a gun.

Jesus, what the hell is this weird looking, you know?" He goes, "Mr. Bob, Mr. Bob, can you explain to me why the plate on the front of the car doesn't match the one on the back?" I'm like, "I don't have a screwdriver.

What do you want from me?" You know what I mean? What are you going to do? Right?

And then my sister turns. My little sister, I love my little sister. You know, I start drinking r very soon after I start drinking.

I I I love alcohol. So, I want to turn her on, you know? So, she's drinking with me, you know what I mean?

Very tight family. We're partying and doing all this stuff, but she even she turns on me. We're sitting at dinner one night and we're we're just hanging out.

I'm a little hung over cuz I'm always a little hung over and we're, you know, family conversations going around and somehow I'm like the topic again. >> You know, my little sister's like, "Oh, you know what he did last night?" I'm thinking, "What I He peed in the dishwasher. I'm like, at first I'm denying.

I'm thinking, I don't know. Well, maybe. Who cares?

I mean, it's all connected. What's Why are you harassing me? Everybody's harassing me about my drink, you know?

Fast forward, uh, 1985, I go to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. Somebody gave me 20 bucks to go to NA meeting. This guy I used to run with gave me 20 bucks.

And for 20 bucks, I'll go to a meeting. I don't care. Right.

Right. I go to a meeting and it was pretty cool. These guys were talking drinking stories.

I like drinking stories. Right. I couldn't believe they're talking about this stuff out loud.

Right. But I was like, "Okay, that's cool. That's cool.

You guys are really kind of screwed up. I mean, if for you, it's probably a really good idea to stop, you know, drinking. You know, if I ever get as bad as you guys, I can come back here." And for the next two years, what I did was I visited Alcohol Anonymous.

I I came to meetings so I I could just keep it together during the week. I'm not going to not drink on weekends, okay? But I would go during the week.

And uh then this friend of mine, this other guy, Billy, got sober, you know, he um the first guy, Steve, you know, in order to have some credibility with me to 12step meo economics, which these two guys did. Now, Steve, we we had a lot of business uh endeavors together. Now, one of them involved uh dying my hair different colors, assuming different identities before the terrorists made it fashionable.

We we uh imported some South American agricultural products. Um we had some toxic waste deals going. We a couple weird little things like that.

Um but he was crazy. This guy was insane. I mean, I've seen him pull guns on people in just residential nice doors and you know what I mean?

Just he was insane, right? What what had happened was this guy got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous. He disappeared for like a week and he going to detox.

He came out. He was, you know, all shiny eyed talking about God. And I was like, oo, I mean, but it was good for him because he was a disaster.

He was dangerous. He was a crazy guy, you know. And uh then my friend Billy, same thing happened.

and they got him, you know. Now, his his last run, he was like in a motel room. He threw the television through the window and I think he threw a prostitute through it right after the television and and then he went to detox and then, you know, AA came in and he comes out talking about Jesus, whatever.

Oh, Jesus, you know, wanting to save me, you know what I mean? I'm like, okay. But, you know, I went to some meetings, you know, >> he seemed to be doing pretty well.

If it would work on him, you know, maybe, you know, it'll work a little bit on me. I don't I'm not really alcoholic. I don't drink every day, you know.

And um so, so I had been exposed to alcohol. This whole God idea though, these guys are talking about God. I'm like, I wish I could be so stupid.

I wish I could buy. How do you dumb down enough to believe this stuff? You know, how how do you do that?

I I wanted to, but I I I couldn't figure out how to do that, you know. And what happened in October 1987 was that the market crashed a little bit. There was some mishaps.

My boss was a little upset. My coke dealer had $55,000 of his money and he he wanted it back, you know, and uh so I I end up, you know, going to see somebody and we talked about my drinking. Next thing you know, I'm in a rehab and uh this guy from Alcoholics Snows comes in.

This guy's he comes in, he says, "Oh, I'm sober for three years." Well, I'm like, "Three years?" Oh, you're getting carried away. Look at I mean, if you could stop for three years, why stop for three years? You know, if you can stop, you can stop and you start again.

What's the big deal? You know, and uh he explained a little bit of uh the progression, the disease concept. He talked about uh not knowing when he might have that moment of clarity that that would, you know, introduce him again to alcoholics and numbness, you know, and he talked about alcoholism and he talked about God and, you know, maybe maybe the whole crowd just shut down when he started talking about God, but he he stopped and he and he started to explain himself and and he talked about a God of his understanding.

He didn't pitch any sort of religious affiliation. He said, "You know, I three years ago, I got on my knees and I said a prayer to a God I didn't believe in and asked him to keep me sober and I've been doing that every every day since. And and maybe there's some sort of connection because I haven't picked up a drink." It's like, "Okay, well, maybe there's a connection." And I I didn't realize that you didn't have to believe in God to say a prayer, but oh, what the hell, you know?

and and you know I don't know if it was him or some other guys that I heard talk about God and they talk about like this this power that that's just awesome you know and you know and they they seem to have like a magic in their life you know what I mean these guys that believe in God seem to have like a um like that magic that I used to have for Santa Claus you know when I remember when I was a little kid I love believing in Santa Claus you know it it was just magical I didn't know it was going happen. You know, it was just fun to believe and I wanted to believe. I wanted some magic back in my life.

I wanted some wonder. I wanted some amazement, you know. And the next day, I got on my knees and I said prayer to a God I didn't believe in, you know.

And I'll tell you that was 21 years, 5 months, and one day ago. And I have not picked up a drink since that day. Maybe there's a connection.

M >> you know that I didn't start believing in God because of that. I didn't start believing in God until I sponsored other people. >> I didn't know that there was a God for sure that had my back until I sponsored other people and looked at them come alive.

What happens is I get out of rehab. I go to this meeting and uh you have to understand that I had been to therapy for about 20 years. I remember I was I was like seven years old and some guy gave me a weird look and I threw him down the stairs, you know, because I knew what he meant, right?

So they they had me looking at ink blotss trying to figure out what I saw. And I don't know about you guys, but I I make up, right? I I don't know what that you know, if I don't know the answer, I'm not going to look stupid.

I I'll make up, right? And every that was always the same. Every time I go to therapy, I I would try to be honest.

She how she's like, "How do you feel?" How do I feel? How did I feel before you asked me when you asked me or now? How do I feel, Frank?

You know, it's a little early to pass the ball to me. I don't know how it's Tell me. You tell me how I'm doing.

I don't know how I'm doing. And And I try I really tried really hard to to kind of do the therapy thing. He's like, "Oh, I feel sad." And she liked that.

So I go with that for a while, right? And so I tell her some of the things that I've done, you know, and she'd judge me. And so the end of my story would change because I'm terrified of being judged.

I will do anything, say anything in order to not be judged. Okay? I will be whoever you want me to be.

I've switched musical in, you know, interest. I I've I've driven cars based on trying to be popular and cool. I've I've had careers based on creating the right impression.

My whole life was a charade in order to gain acceptance by you guys so you could like me so I wouldn't be feel like I was so alone. >> Okay? I am the loneliest person on earth.

Okay? And if in going to therapy, I I would try my best to try to try to try to do it to try to get myself right. But I it wouldn't work because it would always come to a point where I'd feel like she's judging me, you know, and and my story would change and and I'd veer from the truth.

You know what happened at uh when I got out of rehab, they said, "Go to a meeting. Put your hand up. Ask for rides to meetings." So, I go to a meeting.

I put my hand up and I said, "Well, I just got a rehab. I need rides to meetings. Anybody can give me a ride.

I'd really appreciate it." And uh what what happened was that uh after the meeting, I'm walking out in the parking lot and this guy yells across. He goes, "Hey, I can give you rides." I was like, "Oh, okay." He said, "Well, where do you live?" And I told him where I lived. And he he lived two blocks away.

I was like, "Oh, that's pretty cool." He goes, "You need a ride home." Sure, absolutely. And I'm walking toward him. He goes, "Well, there's a bunch of us." And he had like a bunch of like newcomer people near his car.

I was like, "Well," and I do what I do, you know, as a broke newcomer. I put my hand into my empty pocket and I'm like, "Well," he's like, "You want to go to diner with us? You want to stop?" I'm every good member of Alcoholics Anonymous would do.

He said, "No, no, no. You're new. You're supposed to be broke.

My trait." He said, "If you weren't broke, we'd be suspicious." And I laughed. He laughed. I got in the car.

I went to the diner and I just got what the guy before me got. I didn't know I didn't want to make waves. I didn't want to be noticed.

I didn't know how to do this whole AA thing. I I I I just wanted to have a different kind of life, you know. So, I go I go with them and you these guys start telling some stories and it's pretty tame at first, but then they start telling stories that you really shouldn't be talking about in public, you know.

I'm looking at these guys like, "Oh my god, sh you know, keep it down." you know, maybe the statute of limitations passed on your stuff but not mine, you know, you know, and they keep talking. By the end of the evening, I'm laughing with him, right? The guy drops me off that night and and I'm like, "Oh my god, this is cool." He goes, "I'll pick you up tomorrow." I'm thinking, "How do you know I didn't have plans?" And I'm like, "Okay." You know, so the next day he comes pick picks me up.

And every day he took me to AA meetings every single day. Yeah. I couldn't get away, you know.

She's like, "Come on, let's go. We're going to do this." Okay, whatever. You know, I'm just in the car.

It's like, "Where are you going?" I'm what do you care? You know, oh You know, I go to a discussion meeting. I'm going to share some of the stuff I learned in rehab because it's pretty profound.

My hand goes up, he pushes it down. Don't hurt yourself, kid. Okay.

One one thing leads to another. I'm feeling pretty good in Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm feeling pretty good running around with these guys, but it's not lasting long.

It's not lasting. You know what happens is I'm out of rehab for a little while. I'm the new guy.

Everybody's paying attention like like I'm a celebrity. All of a sudden, this little puke gets out. He's got like four days sober or, you know, I'm like, what's going on with this?

And everyone's paying attention to him. You know, what about me? I'm the new guy.

You know, I'm hoping this guy drinks. I get my I'll get my spot back. Right.

Right. So, you know that the AA is not it's not it's not turning out so well. These guys are not like loving me, you know, and then all of a sudden I get home and, you know, my mom says something and what I'm hearing is like, you know, not what she's saying, you know, she she she asked me a simple question.

Maybe, you know, what's going on financially? And what that means is, you know, you're a loser. Why couldn't you pay your bills?

You owe me so much money. You know, that's what I'm hearing, right? And then one day she comes in, she gives a stack of this like bag, big brown bag.

I open her up, there's like bills and stuff, all three years of unopen mail. I'm like, oh look. Oh.

And I look at one and it's like from a credit card company and it's like, ah, we want so much money and make you don't pay. We're going to go they're going to charge you more. And I'm like, oh Jesus.

The next one's even worse. And I go fast forward a couple like a year later and like they're like begging for their money. I'm going got them where I want them here, right?

Then all of a sudden I get to the court. I get to the court once. I'm like, "Oh my god." And I got warrants from towns I've never been to.

Holy What? I I never did that. Did I?

I oh my this hor you know and so not not only am I am I suffering from that normal sense of anxiety that I suffered with in first grade where I'm worried about what you're thinking about me and oh my god this is horrible but I that that coupled with all the things that I do when I'm drinking I'm freaking out and I'm like I hope nobody remembers that and I can't walk down that street and I can't go to that store and I can't go to that restaurant and I can't have I oh I got to have family reunion or I'm going Christmas I'm going to see. Oh my god. And you know, it's like, "Oh my god." You know, I I can't All the catastrophes going on in my life.

You know what I mean? All the broken relationships, you know what I mean? I I mean, when you're walking around sober, you know, couple months sober, and you haven't worked the steps, and you run into some girl, and the last time you saw her was when when she woke up covered in your urine.

It's like, "Oh." It's like, "Oh, I'm getting the hell out of this relationship. We don't need to explain this. It's like, you know, I my my life is like crapping out in soati and and I go to meetings with this guy and and they're not just they're not doing the trick.

He drops me off one night. It's 10:00 at night. He drops me off and and my head won't stop.

The meeting didn't do what for me what it's supposed to do. And and I'm I'm freaking out. I don't what am I going to do now?

I'm sitting at my parents kitchen table and it's and now it's 11:00 and and I'm staring at the clock and I got to do something. And I don't know what I'm going to do. You know, now it's 12:00 and I have freaking more.

And now it's 1:00 and I I got to get to the bar before they close. You know what happened? I don't know why, but I picked up the phone and I called this guy.

And now he's a good member of Alcoholics Anonymous cuz I called him at 1:00 in the morning. He wasn't screening his calls, okay? He wasn't too busy.

He answered his phone. And when he answered it, he goes, "Hello." And I go, "Hey, how you doing?" Right now, he goes, "What's going on?" I go, "Nothing." Just hanging out. Now, if you get a new guy calling you at 1:00 in the morning, he says, "I'm just hanging out." What he's saying is, "I'm dying.

>> I'm I'm about to put a gun in my mouth or go drink. I need help now." And what he said was, "Why don't you come by? You want to come over?" I said, "Yeah, okay." So, I go out in the garage.

I steal my little sister Schwin. It's like a little purple Schwin with a basket. You know what I mean?

Like one day I'm doing armed robberies. Next day I'm riding a purple little girl swin, you know, like, "Oh Jesus." So I race over to his house. I bang on the door.

He says, "Come on in. Come on in." So I sit down. He goes, "Can I make you a sandwich?" I said, "Oh, that's pretty cool." He makes me a nice sandwich.

I sit down. I'm eating. I'm relaxing.

He sat down on the couch next to me. He looks over. He goes, "How you doing?" "Fine." And we're not going any deeper than that.

Right. And what this guy did was radically different than every therapist I'd ever been to. 20 years of therapist, and this is the first time someone trying to help me, made an approach that I found acceptable.

Because what he did was he didn't interview me. He didn't grill me. He looked in my eyes and he started telling me his story.

He said, "Ah, you're working in New York, huh?" I said, "Yeah." There's a lot of bars in New York. I go, "Oh my god, there's one every corner." He goes, "Huh? Must be tough getting sober in New York." I go, "You have no idea." He goes, "Yeah, I do.

I got sober in New York." I was like, "Oh, yeah." He starts telling me a drinking story. He says, "Yeah, one night I was out with this guy from work and we're we're drunk. We're shitfaced.

We're in the back of this cab." And next thing you know, this other cab driver comes around the corner, smashes into the cab. I was like, "Yeah." So, he goes, "Well, the cab driver gets out, goes and talks to the other cab driver. I got tired of waiting.

I jumped up front and took the cab." I was like, "Well, that's pretty cool, right?" He said, "Next thing you know, I'm in the tombs." I'm thinking, "How the hell this guy know about the tombs?" "Holy shit." He goes, "Yeah, they had me in shackles." And I was remembering shackle. Oh my god. He said, "Yeah, there was a woman on each side." I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I've been in the tombs. They separate the men and the women." He says, "Well, I looked down. They had really big hands.

I looked up and they had Adam's apples." And I was like, "Holy shit." You know, and all of a sudden, I started telling him the story. I was taking to my grave. I said, "Well, that's nothing." And one night I was down in Washington Square Park.

Next thing you know, I'm chasing this transvestite around the park with a hatchet. Now he looks at me. Now if he was a good therapist, psychiatrist, if he really had it together and knew what the hell he was doing, right, he probably would have said something along the lines of, "Well, Jim, why don't you explain a series of events that led up to the chase?" Now, we didn't need to go there.

I wanted my money back. So he looks at me, he starts laughing. He starts laughing.

He told He told me another story. I was like, he told me this sexual escapade that was like, "Oh my god, this guy's like Jeffrey Dmer. Holy I'm going to get the hell out of here.

This guy might eat me." Right. I'm Oh my god. What am I going to do?

Right. Like, "Oh shit." He looks at me. I'm I'm like freaking, you and I'm counting the steps to the door.

I'm going to just run, right? He starts laughing and I I just started laughing cuz he was laughing. And next thing you know, I'm telling another story.

And that went back and forth maybe an hour and a half. And what happened was at the end of that hour and a half, this guy knew more about me than 20 years of therapist combined. Mhm.

>> What this guy did was by telling me his story. >> It was like setting down his armor and making himself very approachable. And and I could have shared anything because I didn't feel like he was going to judge me.

And I'm leaving that night and he goes, "You know, you're doing more for me than I'm doing for you." I'm like, "What are you talking about? >> I didn't tell him anything." You know, I'm like, "No, man. You just saved my life." He goes, "No, you have no idea." Now what happened was I I wouldn't understand that uh for many years you know what happened was I I started sponsoring some guys and you know in my first couple years I sponsored like a dozen guys at at two years so over and but what what happened was I I didn't want a sponsor really button into my life.

I didn't want to be accountable to anybody. I I didn't want to take from anybody. Okay.

I didn't want to what I wasn't willing to do was I wasn't willing to learn how to be a sponsor by being a spons right and what happened was that five years sober I got aggravated because none of the guys I was sponsoring stayed sober and I don't do anything for a very long time that I don't do really really well. You know, in the first couple year, everybody was I had a lot of guys that were running as a pack, but when they start dropping and everybody starts dropping, I get discouraged, right? And then my my sponsor is like butting into my life, even even like one of these sort of middle of the road AA guys, you know what I mean?

He's like, man, you know, and he starts buttoning in my life. I'm thinking I maybe I need a therapist, you you know, I start talking to therapists and you know, you know, start hitting Pacas and talking to my inner child and I'm crying and all that stuff is really good stuff, okay? But if I don't have somebody in my life that's willing to lower their their guard and be real with me about who they are, okay, I'm not going to be real with the other person, you know?

And so what happens is I'm basically sponsoring myself >> from 5 years to 10 years. And if you sponsor yourself as well as I do, okay, you too can be indicted by the New York District Attorney's Office, right? So, next thing you know, I'm facing 5 to 15 for security fraud, okay, as a direct response to me sponsoring myself because I didn't want to follow direction.

I didn't want to be accountable. I didn't want to, you know, I wanted my sponsor to be my best friend. You know what I mean?

I didn't want like a hierarchial sort of sponsor. I didn't want somebody talking down to me. meaning I don't I don't want somebody to tell me the truth.

>> I don't want somebody to hurt my feelings. >> I want somebody to be my buddy, >> you know? I want some leverage in the relationship.

>> I want somebody who needs me to be their buddy so they won't tell me the complete unadulterated truth. Okay? And that's what I got, you know, and and so, you know, fast forward, I I I end up meeting this guy who's real active in AA, real happy.

I mean, embarrassingly happy, you know what I mean? And he showed me an approach to doing Alcoholics Anonymous that was 1% going through the steps and 99% taking other people through the steps. You know, my life got good.

I ended up going for the sentencing hearing and I had a trust in God that I had never had my entire life. I knew I was going to be okay. I was outside uh the courtroom 100 Center Street in New York and I'm on my knees saying a prayer to this God and the prayer went something like this.

God, thank you so much. Thanks for taking me through this almost entire process without having much fear at all. And I know if you have me going to prison today, I'm going to sponsor as many people as I can.

If that's where you want me to go, I'll do the best job I can. I just want to thank you for not letting me kill myself, you know, and uh I appreciate all you've done for me. And I was about to get up off my knees, but what slipped out of my mouth was, "Hey God, you got to realize there's a lot more on the outside." And I hop up on my feet and I'm laughing walking to this courtroom.

I'm walking into this courtroom a free man and there's not a goddamn thing that judge could do to take away my freedom, >> right? And and I don't know why out of nine of us the guy said probation. >> Wow.

>> No fine, no rest to do. No probation. Pretty cool.

You know, so I start sponsoring people, you know. Two months later, I'm sponsoring like a dozen guys, right? I'm I get back into business.

You know, I'm making money. I'm running this ad agency. Everything's going well, right?

Then I have a mishap. This client's not paying me. He owes me $30,000.

I'm like, "You son of a bitch." Now, I don't like to get screwed for money. I have this like psychotic streak, okay, that that tells me that people are screwing me even when they're not screwing me, but god forbid you screw me when you screw me, right? And I'm thinking, "This son of a bitch." Okay, we're going to work this out.

You know, I'm gonna get my goddamn money and we're right and I have this conference call schedule scheduled and I'm I'm ready for it, right? And I'll destroy their company if they don't pay me. And what happens is the phone rings and it's the psych unit in our local town.

He says, "Well, we got a guy. We can't get through to him." I'm like, "What are you talking about?" Well, this guy was, you know, he's definitely an alcoholic, but we've we've tried shock treatment. We've, you know, group therapy.

We've, you know, we've we've done everything. the best medication. Nothing's effective on this guy.

This guy is catatonic. This guy is hopeless. Now, think about it.

Hopeless. Now, depression's up here. Hopeless is way down here.

Far worse than depression. That's what this program, Alcoholics Anonymous, deals with. Hopelessness, >> you know, and and what he said, what this lady said was, "Can you come over and talk to him?

We can't get through to him. Maybe you can help him." And what I'm thinking is, >> nah. Who cares?

I want my money, right? But what comes out of my mouth because I had a sponsor. If I told him that story and I told him that I didn't help the guy, we wouldn't have a lot in common.

And and what what happened what happened was I said, "Okay, I'll be right by." And I called up these people I'm supposed to have the conference call with and I'm like, "Hey, something came up. Urgent matter. I got to go to the hospital.

I'll call you in a couple hours." And they're like, I'm like, "You know, there's nothing I do. I'll call you in a couple hours. I go to the hospital and I look at this guy.

I'm like, "Oh my god." Where' they drag him from? Look at him. I mean, his he had like sweatpants that was saturated with urine dried and wet and dried and he's got like soores on his neck and he's got matted hair and I'm like, "Oh, this guy's gross." Well, I don't I never got that bad, right?

And my sponsors always told me, "It's not you. You're not God. >> You're just a reflection." You know, many of you probably heard the story.

you know, it's like the moon being just, you know, illuminated because the power of the sun, you know, and think about what God could do for you, you know, and and he he told me that story. I'm thinking, "Oh, God, it's not going to work." But what I did is I said a prayer. I said, "Okay, God, you better take you I don't know what the hell to do with this guy, right?

You better you better step in here because I'm out I'm I'm outnumbered, you know?" And what what happened was I look at this guy and I had no idea what to say. But what came out of my mouth was, "How you doing? My name is Jim.

I'm a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. >> Chances are if I get an opportunity to tell my story to somebody today, I might not pick up a drink. Do you think I could tell you my story?

>> Nice. >> And what the guy said was, "Okay." >> And I looked at I looked in his eyes and looked right into his soul and I told him the story that I forgot. I never even remember it.

And I said, "Yo, there's one time at the end of my drinking, I'm living behind my girlfriend's parents' basement, okay? So she can keep an eye on me." And um sometimes she let me drive her car, but one time she let me drive her car and I I totaled it. And before the cops got there, I told her, you know, I had to tell her that I didn't have a driver's license and we better switch seats, right?

So, this girl's a little a little upset with me. And this guy's listening like, you know, kind of half bored, like, what why is he telling me the story? I said, but next thing you know, this girl's insurance company sends her a check.

She gets a brand new car, you know, but get a load of this girl. She doesn't even thank me for the new car. He looks at me a little quizzical, you know, right?

He says, and I said, "Well, what happened was I disappeared a lot and this girl had this brand new car with light blue velour seats and she wouldn't let me drive." And I disappeared for three or four days and I got like weird pains in my stomach and I'm like, "What what organ is this?" And they go, "That's not an organ. Oh what do you do about that?" You know? Oh.

And I'm my diet consists of vodka and beer nuts, whatever you can get at the bar, right? And uh and I I show up and and uh for this girl and we're driving to the beach. your parents had some some money cuz other girls whose parents have money and we're driving to the beach and uh and I feel this weird pain and the guy's looking at me like yeah so so and I felt this weird pain and I thought it was a little bit of gas but I look back and I my pants right this guy looks at me and all of a sudden out of complete hopelessness all I hear is I did that right now you can't tell me that God doesn't provide a connection You can't tell me that everybody on this planet isn't uniquely qualified to affect a positive change in somebody else.

He starts laughing. He tells me a story. I'm thinking, "Yeah, he probably his pants today." Hey, look at him.

Right. So, so I tell him another story. He laughs.

He tells me another story. I laugh. That went back and forth.

I don't know how long it was, maybe an hour. But I left there. He had a smile ear to ear.

And I looked back and I said, 'You doing more for me today than I did for than I'm doing for you. He's like, what? I get back, I'm thinking, God's got my back.

I'm doing this for him and I know what he's going to do for me. I get back on the conference call, I'm thinking. They said, "No, it's 60,000." I'm like, "What the come on?" Right?

I start laughing. The guy goes, "Would you snap?" I said, "Well, at least no one died." And what it did was it just leveled out my thinking, >> right? And that company hired me to do hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of business because they trusted me.

They trusted what Alcoholics Anonymous did for me. It wasn't me. Alcoholics Anonymous allows me to be much more than I am.

It's a power so much greater than myself. It it it it it it makes me able to live in a way that that is far beyond anything I've ever been able to achieve without alcohol. You know, if I can't get a better buzz in alcohol anonymous than I can on the street, I'm getting it on the street.

You know, if I can't get a better buzz in AA than I can get from Jack Daniels, I'm drinking Jack Daniels. I can't get a better buzz in Alcoholics Anonymous than I can from smoking crack. Believe me, I'd be crawling on my hands and my knees smoking paint chips and toenails again.

Right? I love the buzz. If you're an Alcoholics Anonymous and you're not getting the buzz, it's your fault.

Okay. What this big book is, what the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous is, is a recipe book. Now, it's got a picture of the cake.

Those are the promises after each step. That's the picture of the cake. Now, it's got a very detailed recipe on how to achieve that.

Okay? If your cake doesn't look like that cake, it's not the book's fault. So, anyway, I want to thank you for allowing me to say so for another day.

>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.