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Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> I'm Joe and I'm still an alcoholic.

>> Joe, um my sobriety date is uh March 18th, 2003 and my home group is the Roll 62 group of Alcoholics Anonymous. Um, >> and uh, chapter 4 we're going to review today. Uh, the chapter we agnostic.

Um, I know when I first looked at this big book and I saw uh, chapter we agnostic, I was kind of turned off by it. Um, I was like because I didn't really know what it was and I was pretty sure I wasn't it. Um, and uh, I probably skimmed through it and skimmed over it and as I got a little bit more time under my belt, I started really reading into this chapter and uh, I really got a lot out of it.

I think, you know, it's a great chapter. Um, I'm not a big book expert. I don't claim to be and uh, neither does uh, Johnny.

Um, the only thing I could share is my experience of what I get out of this chapter and what I've heard. Uh, you know, I'm a big big fan of Jojo and Charlie CDs and what I get out of listening to them and uh, you know, so we're going to go over Chapter We Agnostic. Um, you want to say anything?

>> No, go ahead and start. We're going to we only have an hour so I'm just going to we're going to touch on a few things and uh you know try not to move too fast but there is a lot of information to cover. Um I'm not saying what I get out of it is right or wrong.

You might say uh well my sponsor didn't you know say this or uh you know I'm not getting that. Um that's fine. Um I'm just here to share my my experience.

Um I know in uh the first paragraph um it says uh if you honestly want to you find you cannot quit entirely or if when drinking you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. Um my experience with that is uh coming in um I didn't drink every single day.

So when it the first couple chapters completely smash home the idea what happens to me when I do pick up that drink. My vision of the alcoholic was homeless, living under a bridge with a a bottle of something in a brown paper bag. That was my vision of the alcoholic.

And this book helped me to smash that to get rid of that idea of what the alcoholic looks like. And um when I put a drink in me, all bets are off. And I had to come to the realization of that and and come to find an internal internally, you know, basically surrender to that.

And uh alcohol, you know, basically whooped me. And uh when I came in and they were talking about a spiritual experience, um some people come in and are like spiritual experience, uh they want nothing to do with it. I was kind of curious as to what what the spiritual experience was cuz I was pretty pretty beat up, you know, um everything what my what whooped me.

And when I came in, they're like, you know, you might want to try and find some sort of power greater in yourself, maybe a god of some sort, and um you might want to start praying to it, you know. And when I look back on my alcoholism, I didn't have when I picked up that first I didn't really have a a a choice before I even picked up the first drink. But when I picked up the first drink, all bets were off.

I might be gradually sitting around the house and just drinking and then the next week, you know, I'm smashing stuff. You know, I don't know what happens to me after I just pick up that first one. Um to one who feels he's an atheist or an agnostic, such an experience seems impossible.

But to continue as he is means disaster, especially if an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed in alcoholic death or live or to live on a on a spiritual basis are not only not always easy alternatives to face. Um what I got out of that was, you know, um pretty much insanity for me.

Um to even um to weigh out those options, a normal person doesn't have to weigh out those options. Um you know, in the beginning, you know, when I was just uh spiraling around Alcoholics Anonymous, uh I kind of asked myself, what kind of how bad of an alcoholic death are we talking? um you know cuz the spirit part of me was fighting the spiritual part of this and I I wasn't really sure on what what was going on.

So you know I came in slightly closed-minded and slightly open-minded. I wasn't really sure as to what what I was going to get out of Alcoholics Anonymous. And uh as I came around you know um the alcoholics and the fellowship showed me that there is a better way to live and uh the spiritual life was start got really really more attracted to me.

Um I had I would you know pray to God. I had no idea what God could do for me until I came in Alcoholics Anonymous. I didn't have any really belief growing up when I went through CCD and all that other crap and I had no idea what really I closed my mind to God at a at a young age there there when I was going through all that stuff I was just going there to have fun and trying to enjoy myself.

I didn't pay attention to anything they were teaching me. When I came in alcoholics anonymous, I heard someone shared her like, you know, the Catholics believe in a punishing and yada yada yada god when I'm like I have a punishing God. You know that that I was in a delusional world.

I didn't really know what God could do for me. I I always thought, you know, um you know, you could live your life how pretty much however you want and before you die, you pray to God and ask for forgiveness and it's like an actor sketch. You just shake it and it's all gone.

Poof. It magically disappears, you know. That that was my my belief in it and it was pretty much, you know, pretty much insane, you know.

>> All right. Hi everybody. My name is John.

I'm a recovered alcoholic. Uh my sobriety date is December 5th, 2001. Um my home group is Rule 62.

Uh meets at 7:30 on Tuesday nights in Lake Silkworth, Pennsylvania. Um very grateful to be here. Um, I'm here only for one reason, because of God's grace.

Um, two things I know about God's grace is one, it's not deserved, and two, it's never earned. Um, however, I did not come to Alcoholics Anonymous, uh, with any type of God in my life at all. Um, you know, uh, I came in here calling myself an alcoholic, not really knowing what that meant.

Um, I really didn't, uh, you know, I was just saying I was alcoholic. Um, I but I didn't know what made me alcoholic. And uh you know and the book spends almost 42 pages uh describing um the alcoholic of of the hopeless variety and uh and through coming to Alcoholics Anonymous and and suffering from this disease after I got here um I got my piece which is I am a hopeless variety alcoholic of this book's type and how I got that was um the way I lived every day.

Um my experience was lining up with verbatim what I was reading in this book in black and white that was calling um the hopeless variety alcoholic. It was made um you know and it's I spent nine months smashing that home and uh you know I had you know Joey talked about the heaven hell punishing God um I grew up in you know very relig uh went to church um you know my family uh you know they taught me morals values right from wrong all that stuff man and um and the book's clear on it says if you know mira moral uh philosophy could change our our alcoholism we would have done it a long time ago um you know morals values none of that worked I had great morals and values. I just went against them on a daily basis.

Uh you know, and um for me, alcoholism had to be beat me into a state of reasonleness. And uh you know, lack of power was truly my dilemma. Um Joey read the definition of alcoholic.

If you really want to quit, you can't. Um I spent the last 6 months of my active addiction um putting every bit of power that I had in my life uh against my alcoholism to try to stop drinking and failed utterly every day. I got up every single day um for six straight months and swear to God I would never ever drink again.

Never. And I meant it with everything I had. Meant everything.

Um by the end of that day I was drunk all over again. Um you know the book talks about um the mental blank spot in in uh the alcoholic's mind and I definitely have that. And it says we are unable at certain times to bring into our consciousness without sufficient force the memory of the pain and suffering of a week ago or even a month ago.

This renders us without defense against the first drink. Um, this defense must come from a higher power. Must, you know, um, you'll hear there are, uh, they're just suggestions in Alcoholics Anonymous.

There's a lot of musts, too. Um, you know, uh, the suggestions are for the ones that, uh, you know, uh, don't care if they live or die. Um, for me, I must do this.

This is not a cafeteria lunch for me. I cannot take what I, uh, want and leave the rest. Um, I have to do what this book asked me to do or I'm a dead man.

On the flip side of that, though, I get to live a life beyond my wildest dreams. when that book when this book talks about that, it means it. Um I've experienced things that aren't possible for for a guy like me.

Just really not um I shouldn't be here. The things that I enjoy in my life that I haven't hold dear, man, I don't deserve any of them. I should been dead.

I should have been dead a long time ago. And uh you know, lack of power was truly my dilemma. Um and I understood that when I got to Alcoholics Anonymous, I knew um at some level that I was powerless over alcohol.

It owned me and I you know, I didn't own it. It told me what to do. And I knew that from trying to quit on a daily basis for six straight months and uh failing utterly.

And uh you know um for me uh I had no problem admitting the lack of power. But as far as uh the surrender of the rest of my life, I had a big problem with that. You know um I remember sitting in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous for the first uh couple weeks I was in a and uh my head spinning 7,000 mph in 30 different directions, man.

Um people are talking in open discussion meetings and I can't hear a word they're saying and I'm really trying to listen. Um but for whatever reason um sitting in the same Thursday night meeting Harvey's like uh you know uh same people there that were there that you know the six other times I was there and uh same people probably shared in that meeting that shared the other six times I was there. But uh one guy talked that night and I heard it's like all the stuff in my head just turned off and I heard every word he said.

And what this man said is going to um going to meetings on a daily basis, calling your sponsor and talking to other alcoholics is great. It's a big part of this deal, man. And you definitely need to do it.

But if you do not apply these 12 steps into your life, um you're going to get worse because alcoholism is progressive, incurable, in most cases fatal. And there's two things on this planet, and this is absolute fact that treat this disease. One is booze and the other one's the 12 steps.

If you're not doing either one of them, you're sitting right in the grips of a disease that's getting progressively worse. and you're gonna know you're getting worse because the people around you are getting better that are applying these 12 steps to their life. And uh what I heard out of all of that was um this man wasn't saying run away from it.

Change people, places, and things. That's important in the beginning, don't get me wrong, but um you know, I knew if that's what a was about, I'm screwed because um I tried running away from it, man. I tried changing all of that stuff and and got drunk on a daily basis despite it.

Um could not stop. Uh the the my past wasn't keeping me sober. The fear wasn't keeping me sober.

Nothing was. um everything I tried failed. Uh to where I didn't um I just gave up, man.

What's the point of even trying, man? I I just thought I was going to have to drink until I'm dead. And uh you know, um but this man was saying, "This isn't about running away from it.

This is about changing the way you think, so you no longer want to do it." And uh that meeting was over. I got up and I walked right up to that guy. I didn't have the courage to talk to anybody.

Um couldn't look anybody in the eye when I spoke to him. I'd be staring at the floor looking at the wall behind me. Um or my eyes would flutter and roll right up in the back of my head and I didn't even know what was going on.

Um, but I walked up to this guy, looked him dead in the eye and said, "You know what?" I told him who I was, and I said, "I need help. You sponsor me." And the guy looks at me dead in the eye and says, "Here's the deal. I'm not your father.

I'm not your brother. Not your best friend. I'm not your shoulder crying.

I'm not a counselor for your affairs. Um, as far as your problems go, I have no clue what you should do with them. I can't answer my own.

Um, my only job is to, you know, take you through these steps. Um, which will guarantee you a connection to a power grade in yourself, and that power will fix you, not me. If you're cool with that, that's what we'll do.

If not, get lost." Um, and the man absolutely saved my life because he forced me to rely upon a god that I didn't believe in. Um, I had a lot of um, and the book talks a lot in this chapter about um, the the one word that sticks out every uh, all over this chapter is prejudiced. Um, you know, the first time it talks about it um, it says uh, you know, we have shared is honest doubt and prejudice.

Um, I had a lot of prejudice is a prejudgment. It's things that I think I know for sure about uh God and and it's the things that I've been taught growing up and I grew up in the you know Catholic religion. Um I heard a lot of heaven and hell punishing God.

Um you do something wrong, God's going to get you. Um you know, a family member would die when I was a kid. My mom would say it's God's will.

Well, you know, so God kills people um whenever he wants. I don't want no part of that God. Uh huge problem with God.

Huge. um you know and uh the book says the first requirement is just to lay aside prejudice. Put it aside.

Doesn't say get rid of it. It just says lay it aside. Um that maybe everything you know for sure about this God thing ain't so.

Um can you put it aside? Some of it may be correct. We're not telling you to get rid of it, but it's saying put it aside.

Um and you may go back to it later and some of it may uh help you and it may be true, but some of it may be clearly wrong. And that's the first requirement. It talks about it five different times, man, to lay aside prejudice.

Um, you know, it talks about, uh, page 46, the second paragraph, it says, "Let us make make haste to reassure you that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a power greater than ourselves, we commenceed to get results. Even though it was impossible for any of us to fully comprehend or define the power, which is God, which tells me, if I'm trying to understand God, I'm trying to play God." And we got a big problem. Um, it's not my job to understand God.

That's his job to do what he does. And uh it says I need to lay aside those prejudice and open up my mind and maybe I'm not right here. Um and Alcoholics Anonymous deals with fact, not opinion, theory or belief.

Um it's fact, you know, and it was explained to me um I was having a real hard time with the God concept and my sponsor uh looks at me and says, you know, um do you have uh any type of God in your life right now? I said, absolutely not. He's like, are you praying?

I said, no. He's like, are you spending any time doing meditation in Hawaii in hell? No.

Uh he's like looks at me, he's like, how's it going? And the truth was it was going my life was hell, you know, and I wanted to die. And uh and what he did for me is I was in AA long enough that he pointed out um several people that I came in contact with that I saw in meetings on a daily basis.

And he asked me one simple question. How does it look like they're doing? And I had to be honest with myself and say, you know what, they look pretty happy.

They look like they're doing well. And he would say, I know for an absolute fact that these people have a power greater than themselves centered in their life. So the facts are you have no power in and your life's hell and you want to die.

Um, and they do have a power and their lives are good and they're happy and they're sober. Um, that's the fact, man. That's what got me to open up my mind.

Maybe um this heaven and hell punishing God, maybe this ain't so, you know. Um, and I've since seen so much evidence uh to disprove that theory. It's ridiculous.

Um, because when I sit in an alcoholic anonymous meeting, what I'm looking at is a group of the worst criminal elements, absolutely known a man on the face of this planet um sitting in the same room alive, sitting up and making sense and happy. If that is an evidence of a forgiving God, I don't know what the hell is, you know, and uh if God was punishing, man, everybody walked out the door of an A get hit by a bolt of lightning. Um that's my sincere belief.

And uh you know, so I had to put those those beliefs aside. And um the open minus was the key. And if I didn't have that, I'm done.

It's really that simple, man. Um, for the alcoholic and the book's clearness is for the alcoholic not to believe in a power grader itself. The best analogy I could put to that is um, you know, it's just like not believing in parachutes.

You know, you have a family that's a bunch of screw balls that pack parachutes for a living, man. And you see how they do it every day and you say to yourself, "There's no way in hell I'll ever freaking uh jump out of a plane with a parachute on my back." I'm not doing it. Not you don't believe in them at all, man.

Um, no trust, no faith, no belief. And uh but I take you up uh 7,000 ft above the earth, throw you out of that plane with a parachute on your back. Um now you're hurling hurling to the ground at 110 mph, you got some choices.

Um you know, one is keep uh not believing in parachutes, hit the ground at 110 m an hour and die. Um or maybe change your mind about parachutes. Um why do I have to change my mind?

Because I don't want to hit the ground 110 m hour. It's the same thing with alcoholism, man. Um life or death, you know.

So, uh, this entire chapter, uh, we agnostics, man. Um, summary version of it. Change your mind.

You know, if you don't believe in God or you're unsure of God, change your mind. It's really that simple. That's the summary version of this chapter.

Why do I have to do that? Because this is a life or death eron I'm on. Lack of power is truly my dilemma.

I must find a power greater than myself. Um, if not, I'm done. It's really that simple.

And I saw so much evidence in the rooms of AA um that that power existed. If I could only tap in. And I I remember uh first putting that power as my sponsor, you know, and the only thing that man ever did, man, was force me to go to God first and then he would deal with me, you know.

I'd call him up with a problem. He'd be like, "Do you go to God?" "Nope. I don't believe in God." Click.

Dial tone, man. Now I'm pissed off at him. Pick up the phone.

I'm like, "Dude, why did you just hang up on me?" He's like, "You go to God yet?" Nope. Click. Um he forced me to pray to a God that I didn't believe in, man.

Um only reason I did it is because I wanted to talk to him. Um he was the only hope I had. I knew for a fact, man, if I can get a tenth of what this guy's got, we're cool.

I mean, he's walking around with the grace and the dignity. I couldn't even wrap my head around. Um, and I wanted a piece of that, man.

And, uh, I was very, very willing to listen to him. I didn't always do what he said, but um, you know, he was the power. Uh, somehow someway this man found a way to stay sober for 16 years.

His life is happy and, uh, and I could tell it wasn't the material world around him. It was a swagger, the grace, the dignity, you know, he was walking around with, man. when he looked me in the eye and asked me how I was doing, I could tell he meant it with all my heart and uh you know um I just needed a piece of that and I became willing to listen to him.

But um you know uh I had to change my mind. I came in here with a lot of skewed ideas, a lot of misconceptions, a lot of things I thought I knew for sure that I absolutely don't know a damn thing about. Um I knew so much about what was untrue, I had no idea what was true.

Uh it was that simple for me. And um for the first nine months I was an alcoholics anonymous. didn't take these 12 steps out of this book.

I didn't um the only thing I did uh was go to God because I was forced to didn't believe in God. Um but my sponsor wouldn't deal with me unless I prayed to him. But when I started things just from that process of of going to a power greater myself and trying to pray just so my sponsor would deal with me, I started to get results.

And the book says that it says we'll commence once the open mind is there. Um and a book says later on the page, it says um God does not make too hard a terms to those who seek him. The moment I started the action of prayer, God's there.

He does not make too hard a terms. Um there's no specific way I have to pray. There's no uh you got to get on your knees, you got to do this.

Um if I had to get on my knees every time I pray, I'd be screwed because I got to talk to God all day long, man. His head goes 100 miles an hour in 40 different directions. Uh I need his help.

You know, if I have to hit my knees, I'm a dead man. Uh because there's not I can't do that everywhere I go. And uh God doesn't make too hard a terms.

Um so you know the simple action of prayer started to open the doors to this power and what happened for me in my life at that point is it's like all of a sudden I started to become lucky you know things started to work in my life man the first good thing would happen coincidence that would happened anyhow um yeah that was luck started to happen so often and so much I started I stopped um I realized I'm just not lucky I've never been lucky now all of a sudden I am maybe there's something to this power greater than ourselves maybe and I started to see evidence show up in my life and And I started to um feel better. God's honest truth. I started to feel a little bit better at this point.

And um I had a little bit of hope. Um you know, and with that uh you know, Joey start um touch on some more points, but uh you know, the prejudice is the big thing for me. Um and and a lot of the guys that I sponsor that I deal with um they have huge problems with the power, you know, when they hear the word God.

And uh you know before I shut up, this is the last thing I want to say on this on this piece is uh you know um I remember my sponsor saying this to me man and I do this with all the guys that I sponsor man. It seems to work very very well for my experience and I'm going to pass it on you. If you can use it, use it.

If not, don't use it. Uh but um a lot of guys I and and me included in this list, I came to Alco has huge problems with this power graph. Um and one in specific that I just dealt with like a week and a half ago and um he's sitting uh we're out outside my home group.

We're in a parking lot uh and meeting it's raining outside. There's just two, you know, three of us left and uh this guy was new and and he's as soon as you mention a word of God, man, you can see him cringing. Um you know, and he shared with me, he's like, "You know what?

I grew up in a military family. You know, it was kill all week long and then Sunday go to church." He's like, "I got a huge problem with this God thing, man." Um I looked at him, I said, "You know what? everything you know for sure about this God thing.

Why don't you put it aside? If uh if you could create your own God right now, uh write down, take a piece of paper out when you go home, write down all the characteristics you want God to have. Um and whatever you come up with is cool, man.

They don't have to be mine. I gave him some examples of mine, which is loving, forgiving, all powerful, there to take care of me no matter what I do or how bad I screw up. Um perfect, will never hurt me, will never leave me, was always there to take care of me.

And uh those and I said, "You want to use some of them, use some of them. You want to create your own, create your own." Um, whatever you come up with, start praying to that because that's your God from this mo moment forward. And it starts right there for them.

And it started right there for me. Um, I abandoned the heaven and hell punishing God and the prejudice. And I and I open my mind up to maybe there is a loving, forgiving God.

And and I've started to see evidence that that was the case and that's never been disproven to me. Um, you know, uh, and the book talks a lot about that. So, um, that's all I have on that piece and let Joey keep going with the book.

Thanks. Um, next a little bit more uh touching a little bit more on uh the book touches a little bit more on step one in the beginning of the chapter. Hoping against hope where we were not true alcoholics.

Um I in the beginning for me it was you know I I would pray that I wasn't a real alcoholic cuz that was my solution the whole time. It was like that's that's what I wanted to do my entire life. All I want to do is drink drink and pretty much obliviate myself and uh people wouldn't let me do that and that's what I that's what I really really wanted to do and then it says but after a while we had to face facts that we must find a spiritual basis of life or else you know and or else you know that came it came down to me or else or else I'm going to die and I didn't come I pretty much came to the realization of that you know after my tolerance towards alcohol and other things was going through the roof and it was definitely a full-time job with unlimited overtime.

Um it was it was insane. And uh then Bill goes on to tell us um after we pretty much smashing the earth and we got um you know you're an alcoholic within. and he says, "But cheer up." You know, um, okay.

But something like half of us, you know, and we're like struggling with the God thing and and everything and we're trying to search out if we're a power grader and myself. I know that's for me and uh, you know, but cheer up. But something like half our original members were atheists or agnostic.

Our experience shows you need not be disconcerted, confused, or upset. Um, I know I had a bunch of morals and values and instilled in my life and you know those little lines that I had drawn in the sand as I was growing up. You know, don't do this, don't steal, this, this, that, and whatever.

I had I had I had those growing up. Um, and every one of them got eliminated. They got wiped away as I was going down my road of of addiction, you know.

And it says, "If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy or of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago." Um, my experience shows that that's not true for me. Um, I mean, that's true for me. Um, I could not stop drinking and using to save my life by myself.

It was it was there was nothing. I had, you know, I tried girlfriends, you know, material things, you know, I tried all what the world was presenting on the outside, you know. Um, maybe if I just had this girl, you know, I'd be all right.

I pretty much have a full-time babysitter. She's not like me. You know, this would work, you know.

Um, I would want to stop for her. Negative. No.

Um, didn't happen like that. Well, maybe if I move in with her and this that and whatever you have, you'd be no, it I'd be right back to doing the same insanity over and over again, except this time I would have his hostage. Um, goes on to say, "But we found that such code and philosophies did not save us.

No matter how much we tried, we could not wish to be moral. We could wish to be philosophically com. In fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there.

Our human resources as marshaled by the will were not sufficient. They failed utterly. Um, from everything I just exp I just went over everything I tried, you know, every idea that was rolling around in my head to try and beat this thing failed literally.

And I knew I was beat. It was something something inside of me felt like that white flag got raised and said, "Okay, I surrender. I got nothing." Um, goes on to say, "Lack of power was our dilemma." All right, you beat me down in the first 42 pages and said, you know, there's no you you have no power.

I'm like, okay, well, I can't walk around being powerless. So now they're going on to tell us how to exactly look within ourselves to find some sort of god to even like just have a little bit of belief that we could that there is some sort of power greater than ourselves out there. Lack of power was our dilemma.

We had to find a power by which we can live and it had to be a power greater than ourselves obviously. But where and how were we to find this power? Well, that's exactly what this book is about.

Its main objective is to enable you to find a power greater than yourselves that will solve your problem. Okay, sounds good. That means we have written a book we believe to be spiritual as well as moral.

And it means, of course, we're going to talk about God. Uh-oh, I'm out the door. Um, I know a lot of people, you know, come in here and, uh, you know, as soon as they talk about God, they're out the door, you know, and, you know, don't, you know, some guys are like, don't talk about God too much around the newcomer, you know, you might chase them away.

Well, I believe I heard Jojo and Charlie say, "Well, the whiskey will bring them back in again." You know, you don't have to worry about that. You know, and and that's that's true cuz as as you come around, if you see them running out the door talking about God, they come in beating tatter and you go, "Are you are you ready to talk about God now?" And absolutely, you know, and that's what that's what was true for me in my life. I hovered around, hey, I'm like, "This thing sounds sounds pretty good.

if I have a problem with alcohol, maybe I'll come back and I'd be out the door. Um, but I always knew within the back of my mind that there was a place to go. There was always a place to go.

Um, goes on to talk a little bit about um I'm going to skip around a little bit here and it said uh goes talk about people um with faith and who who are walking around somewhat free. And I said, uh, I know I was slightly bothered by these people. We were bothered with the the thought that the that faith and dependence upon a power beyond ourselves was somewhat weak and cowardly.

Um, I was like, you know, look at these people, you know, they're just like, you know, they're getting walked on. You know, that was my image. You know, they're walked on.

And what they were was, you know, they had a strong eternal connection with God and it was okay for them. They they didn't worry about that little petty crap that, you know, so much of us do, you know, and and cuz they have a strong belief and faith in God. And you know, I didn't get all this the first couple times I read it.

But gradually as I was going as I was going through the steps and I started to get that internal connection with a power greater than myself cuz I had a little bit of little bit of hope that, you know, this thing could work cuz I seen it, you know, I seen it all around. Especially after I did a four step on my sponsor and I started to get into it a little bit more. Um, I started to feel the connection, you know, and and talking with him about some of the crazy crap that I've done in my addiction, you know, and him sharing the same things with me, I knew I definitely belonged in AA.

This is my home. And uh, Johnny touched on that. You want to add anything else?

>> You know, um, the book talks about lack of power being my dilemma, man. um I must believe in a power greater than myself. And uh it talks on page 47, I think.

Um says we need to ask ourselves one short question. Do I now believe or am I willing to believe that there's a power greater than myself? Um that's probably one of the biggest struggles that I I came to um and a lot of the guys that I work with come to.

And uh alcoholics should be the last people on this planet to doubt a power greater than yourself. Absolute last people on the planet. We've always believed in a power grade in ourselves.

What do you think booze was? Booze was the thing on the table at the end of the day that got things done that I needed to get done. Uh booze was the power.

Um at 13 years old, man, when I found booze, it was the vehicle that kept me alive long enough to to come to Alcoholics Anonymous. If I didn't find booze at 13, I'd have killed myself by the time I got, you know, 15. Um and what booze did for me was gave me a complete personality change.

I'm hanging out with a bunch of people. I feel very very uncomfortable. Um internal feeling is these guys aren't going to like me.

They're going to run me off. You know, they're going to find out who I really am. They're going to run me off.

And I I drank um probably two beers into that in that first um drinking experience, man. The feeling went from what I just talked about to this, these guys are damn lucky that I'm here. You know, um that internal condition was fixed and booze fixed it.

But prior to that experience and the action of taking that drink, if a guy would have walked up to me and said, "You know what? I understand how you feel. You know, I know you feel like you don't fit in.

You don't measure up and um you're not like everybody else, but here, drink this glass of liquid. It'll fix all that." I looked at him like, he's got lobsters crawling out of his ears. You know, um, there's no way in hell a glass of liquid could fix this.

You know what? But what did I do? I took the action, drank it, and had complete, you know, got the results because of the action, and I believed in it with all my heart and soul.

Man, I was willing to die for it. Chased it every day from that point forward. And, uh, booze was the power greater than myself.

At the end, the problem for me was booze dried up, you know. Uh, the last 6 months I was drinking, man. I couldn't drink.

Um, I still got drunk on a daily basis, but the insanity um, of who and what I was, that internal condition that I don't measure up. I'm a piece of crap. Um, all of that was still all over me drunk as hell.

I could not get rid of booze anymore. It no longer fixed the problem. The internal condition.

It did for a long, long time, man. And if it did, you'd be talking to a different If it still did, you'd be talking to somebody else. Somebody else would be sitting here.

Um, it dried up. It stopped working for me. Lack of power became my dilemma.

I must find a new power. Why? Because the old one dried up.

It's that simple. The old one dried up, man. Um, unless I find something to substitute it, I'm done because I can't live without it.

And uh, you know, um, I came to Alcoholics Anonymous and I see all these people that believe in this power, man, and their lives are working. So, I opened up my mind to see maybe uh, if it happened for them, especially with my sponsor, man, because he shared his experience with me and um, he's a real deal alcoholic, man. This guy's nuts.

Uh, I love him to death, man. But I saw his alcoholism all over him, man. what he was capable of doing, but I saw him reacting with kindness, with love.

Um, and I couldn't understand that. And he was telling me it was a power greater than himself that that helps him to do that. Um, I believed he was just like me, if not worse.

And this guy is not acting the way I act. He's not living the way I live, man. His life seems to work.

So maybe if it worked for him, it could work for me, you know. And I saw a number of other people in rooms of alcoholics anonymous um that it was working for. So I started to believe um because if not, uh, lack of power is truly my dilemma, man.

I must find a power greater than myself. And uh you know um if I don't I'm not going to be able to live. It's really that simple.

And um you know the book t I remember uh when I got to this point um and I laid aside those prejudice and said and the only reason I did is cuz I was beaten in a state of submission and um I came to alcoholics cuz not believing that I could never drink again because I was going to die if I do. I knew that man. I had no problem with that at all.

Um the problem I had was uh the rest of my life, you know, doing what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. And uh you know, I would do things and then run it by my my sponsor. Um never before, always after.

And uh what he said would happen, and I talked about this earlier, man, if I don't treat this disease and get connected to that power through those 12 steps, man, I'm going to get worse. And and when I get worse, man, two things are going to h I'm going to get to a place where two things are going to happen. Either I'm going to drink again to go for the relief cuz I need relief, or I'm going to kill myself.

And uh I'm nine months sober. Haven't taken any direction from this book or that sponsor. Uh haven't got connected to any power grader myself.

Um absolutely took my life as bad as it was when I got to a 9 months later was about 3,000 times worse. And the thought in my head every day was just kill yourself. It's over, man.

Um it was kind of like for me, um you know, I caused so much damage in that first nine months. Uh sober, stone cold sober, man. Um it was like that somewhere around that ninemonth point, man.

It was like God hit me in the back of the head with a 2×4 and said, "Wake up, pal. Your next decisions, you don't have to drink again. You don't have to use again to to die.

Your next decision is taking you off this planet, man. If nothing changes, you're going to die." And uh I remember going at my sponsor and looking him dead in the eye and said, "You know what? Um it's over, man.

Can't drink. I can't not drink. I'm screwed.

What's left but to kill myself?" And I meant it with every fiber of my being. And uh guy's got a smile from ear to ear on his face, man. I'm like, "Dude, I just told you I'm going to kill myself.

What are you smiling about?" He's like, "Congratulations. Now you can get sober." Um, thank God I um I had no idea what he was talking about. Thank God he did and he immediately got me into this book and uh that was the day that I turned my will in life over to care of God as I understand him.

Um you know and the book talks about that on 54 and 55. Um you know so I got that piece of lack of power was truly my dilemma. I must find a power greater than myself which is step two and the necessity of it because it says um earlier in the book on page 34 it says whether a person can quit on a non-spiritual basis depends upon the extent to which he has lost the power to choose whether he would drink or not.

This is the baffling feature of alcoholism. The utter inability to quit no matter how great the necessity or to wish. Last six months of my addiction, man, I had every necessity, every wish in the world to stop drinking and absolutely failed on a daily basis despite not wanting to do what I drank.

Anyhow, um lack of, you know, I lost a choice. I hear people in a all the time talk about I choose not to drink. Um I don't know how to do that.

I lost that choice somewhere in the middle of my addiction, man. It's never returned uh to this day. I don't choose not to drink today, man.

God's restored me back to sanity and soundness of mind. Uh the book promises that if you apply these steps to your life and um the problem's been removed, it does not exist. You know, uh I follow a few simple rules on a daily basis and stay connected to that power.

I walk the earth a free man. That's it. I can go anywhere, do anything a free man does.

And uh you know, um the book insists on one thing. It says absolutely insist on enjoying your life. That's what this is about.

If you're an AA for a long period of time and your life isn't fantastic, you're doing something wrong. You're absolutely doing something wrong. Um, drunks hanging out with drunks in meetings talking about their problems is not the deal.

You know, if drunks hanging out with drunks, uh, talking about their problems could, you know, fix the alcoholic, go to any Skid Row in any town in this country, you're going to find drunks hanging out with drunks. And they're all talking about their problems. It don't work for them, nor does it work for us.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery. No steps, no program, no recovery, you know, and um, if you're one of those people that hide behind the fact that the steps are merely suggestions, I got good news and bad news for you. The good news is, you're right, they're only suggestions.

The bad news is they're the only suggestions we got. >> You know, um, and it was put very, very clearly to me, man. Either do this or you die.

And, uh, you know, I remember saying, "Okay, I got this." You know, power greater than myself is the answer, man. Where is this power? And page 55 talks about it says, um, deep down inside of every man, woman, and child is the fundamental ideal of God.

I hated that word, every man, because I knew it meant, you know, and, uh, so I don't care if you're agnostic. I don't care if you're atheist. I don't care what uh personal belief you have.

Um the book says every and I operated under that illusion. Uh and I remember looking my sponsor dead in the eye when I got to this uh place in the book. And I said, "This doesn't make any sense." I'm like, "Lack of power I got is my problem.

Uh power greater is my my answer. Um now you're telling me this power has dwelled inside of me my entire life. Then why am I so freaking screwed up?" It says, uh my problem is I never read on.

You know, the answer's on the next line, but I didn't read. I didn't go that far. Um, my answer's always on the next line, but I stopped there.

You know, I never get there. Um, you know, and thank God for sponsorship because he pointed me to the next line, you know, and uh that's the only thing my sponsor did was guide me through this book and got me connected to a power greater than myself. And uh the next line says that power is there, but it's blocked by the pump, by the worship of other things.

Pomp simply defined as my ego. Uh it's a thing that tells me I'm either better than or less than you. Um I'm worse or I'm better.

Uh you know, I'm different than you are. You're not the same. Your problems are different.

That's the that's po. That's what completely blocks me off from a power grader myself. Calamity is the second thing.

Um, simply define the best way I could uh describe calamity. Let's take the worst day you've ever had. Stone cold sober.

I'll drive you down to your doctor's man. He's going to surgically implant a microphone in your head and what we hear is calamity. That's the anger, the resentment, uh, the fear, uh, the anxiety, uh, all that stuff, man.

And the thing makes my head spin 700 mph in 30 different directions. Completely blocks me out from a power grader myself. And the last thing is worship of other things.

Well, you want to know what you worship right now? Make a pie chart of everything you think about during the day. And whatever holds the biggest piece of that pie is exactly what you worship.

And for me at the time, it was money. It's power, prestige, material possessions, um women, uh everything but a power greater than myself. Um, you know, and I have evidence, man.

Um, that that power dwells inside of every man, woman, and child, man. I know for me at least, um, and a number of guys that I've sponsored, uh, this has been the case. Um, think back when you were 6, 7, 8 years old, man, and you were going to do something wrong.

Did you have a gut feeling or something, uh, inside telling you not to do it? I know I did, and I went against it every single time. What do you think that was?

That's the power the book's talking about, man. And, uh, I went against that so often and so much, man. It just felt it was gone.

it no longer was there. Um I went against it so often that uh eventually it just faded and went away. Uh it wasn't gone, it was just blocked because of the actions that I took on a daily basis.

And uh today I've gotten reconnected to that internal um feeling and I I learned to listen to it, you know. And uh I've cleared the stuff I've put in between. I've cleared the pump.

I've cleared the calamity and I've cleared the worship of other things. How did I do that? Clear exact precise set of directions which are our fourth through ninth step.

The ninth step says we'll suddenly realize promises. Ninth step promises are we suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. Um suddenly means at a moment's notice.

Talks about that at step nine not at step three. Three um the simple requirement was basically um I need to quit playing God. You know I needed to identify how I was playing God.

And four I had to uh admit it to another human being. And five and I had to ask God to remove the crap that was causing me to try to do his job. and six and seven and then eight and nine go clean and mess up.

I made plain God, you know, and when I but when I got through that, bam, God shows up when he shows up, you know, and he showed up. I can't sit in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous today and not see the power or presence of a power greater myself. Cuz what I'm doing right now is I'm sitting up looking at sitting here looking at a bunch of dead people sitting up making sense because every one of us should be dead.

The fact that you're alive, man, means there's some type of power doing it because I know by myself I could not do it. Um, God's grace is the only reason why I'm here today. And, uh, and I open my mind to that belief because I saw so many others that did and and it worked for them, you know, and, uh, I I'm a complete, you know, um, I love this analogy and I'll kick it back over to Joey.

Uh, you know, um, I was out to, uh, Las Vegas two years ago. Um, there's a lake. I love to fish, by the way.

It's it's my passion. Um, you know, uh, it's one of my dreams. But there's a lake out.

So, I'm obsessed with water. I love uh, love getting on the water. Anyways, um there's a lake outside of uh Vegas.

It's about an hour outside of town. It's called Lake Me. It's the largest uh man-made lake in the country.

Um you know, uh if I I could take you out to Lake Me in the middle of August. Um take you right down to the water, let you touch the water. I'm going to load you back up in the car.

I'm going to take you out to the desert, you know, when it's 117 degrees in August. Man, I'm going to drop you off, you know, and uh I'm going to give you a map, clear, exact, precise set of directions on how to get back to Lake Meat. You take that map and throw it right in the trash can, man.

You're going to wander around that desert and you're going to die dehydration believing um absolutely trusting without a shadow of a doubt. Um and knowing lake meat exists because you touched it, you know, but you're still going to die because um you need to access the water. Knowing, believing, having faith is not going to access the water.

We have a clear, exact, precise set of directions on how to access the power. Lack of power is my dilemma. Thank God for a clear, exact precise because if it they weren't clear, exact and precise, man, I would screw it up.

I would screw it up. Um, the book gives me clear directions on how to connect to a power greater myself. Therefore, my power, my problem is no longer lack of power.

I am not powerless over anything today. I hear people run around the A all the time saying I'm powerless. Powerless over people, places, and things.

Man, I am not powerless over people, places, and things. >> Um, if I stop doing what this book asked me to do and get disconnected, I am absolutely powerless. >> Um, and I will drink again and I will die.

But the book uh mentions the word powerless once and says it in the first step. says we were powerless. Doesn't say we are.

It says we were. Um what I found is power in Alcoholics Anonymous which eventually connected me to the to power um of my own understanding you know and my power doesn't need to be your power. I'm a firm believer man when I go back to and the book talks about this in chapter agnostic.

Um when I tell guys to create their own god god and the characteristics they want that god to have and start praying to that god. Um I believe whatever they come up with is exactly what's supposed to be there and god put it there you know. So, my conception doesn't have to be yours.

You know, I'm not telling you to believe in anything. Just open up your mind to see maybe everything you know for sure ain't so. Maybe it ain't right.

And uh you do that and you got a shot at a life beyond your wildest dreams, man. And uh at least that's what I found to this point. Uh with that, I'll kick it back over to Joey.

Thanks. Um, I definitely uh I love this this next line on page 48 and uh in the big book up at top says, "Faced with the alcoholic destruction, we soon became open-minded on spiritual matters as we tried to be on other questions. In this respect, alcohol was the great persuader.

It finally beat us into a state of reasonleness. Some some it took longer than others. Um mine I could def mine was definitely in touch internally.

Um I was faced with that and looked at spiritual matters at a different at a different way. And on step two when I came to step two um my sponsor just directed me you know look to the rooms of alcoholics anonymous as your power greater than yourself to get connected with it. And I don't know how many times I would go to meetings and I would be having some sort of something going on in my life and that would be the topic at the meeting or someone would share that at a meeting and there's only so many times I could go to a meeting and have it be coincidence that they're talking about this, you know, and I'm like this maybe the first one or two times coincidence.

This is just coincidence, you know. Gradually after over and over I'm going, you know what? There is there's got to be something out there because you know this this just just can't happen like this.

And to believe in this power of the group is is amazing, you know, and and it it helped me tremendously with step two and to turn my will and my life over in step three. Um definitely helped. I don't know how many times in early recovery I read in that what Johnny went over that deep down inside every man, woman, and child is a fundamental ideal of God.

I I had no idea what they were talking about. That was to me it was gibberish to me. I had no clue what it was talking about until I got into the action of the of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.

When I got into that and I started, you know, unblocking it and started feeling, I knew exactly what the book was talking about, you know, because it was starting to get unblocked and I was starting I was starting to understand it. I was starting to feel it a little bit more and more and starting to to listen to it and get connected with it, you know, and I just love walking around and and and seeing young children because they still have that sparkle in their eye. They still have it.

And my sponsor always tells me, "Smile at them." and, you know, wave to them, you know, make a goofy face to them cuz they still have that connection with God and it's an amazing thing to even watch and see. Um, what do you want to do? Open it up.

Give me a couple more minutes. Um, you know, and another point, man, is it says, um, that that power dwells inside you, deep down inside of every man, woman, child. But it says only in the last analysis may you find him.

You know, uh, I don't, uh, hit the lottery, marry a show girl, and then go seek God. It just don't work that way for me. I had to destroy absolutely everything in my life before I became willing to entertain this whole God idea.

Um why? Because the book talks about um you know our ideas didn't work but this God idea did and I saw evidence of it and that's what I saw in AA on a daily basis um since the day I got here. Um and I became willing to try what uh you know these people were talking about.

And uh today my life is no longer uh lack of power is no longer my dilemma. I'm no longer suffering from a hopeless seemly uh mind state of mind and body, man. I'm a recovered alcoholic.

I am not cured, but I am recovered. The book talks about a number of times, man. It tells me that's how I should share.

And uh and that's the fact in my life. I don't I don't get up every single day and walk on eggshells wondering what's going to cause me to drink today. When the book says the problem will be removed, it does not exist.

Um and we've had absolutely nothing to do with it. That's from a power gradient yourself, man. When it says that happens, it happens.

But it's a requirement of of the requirement for that is taking the first 10 steps of alcohol anonymous doesn't happen step one. It happens at step 10 and you got to do all the steps in a row in line. Um and that's what's happened for me you know.

I don't walk on eggshells say wonder is causing me to drink. Nothing is problems been removed. Uh you know and it's because I became willing to entertain this God idea you know and uh trying to see the evidence of God in my life or the hand of God working in my life is like trying to stand in front of a mirror and watch my hair grow you know.

Um, reality is my hair's grown. I just can't see it. Um, 30 days later, I stand in front of that same mirror, man, and I see how much my hair's grown.

And it's the same thing with the hand of God. God's there every day doing for me what I can't do for myself. And I don't always see it.

But, um, 30 days of time goes by and I look back at the last couple weeks and I could see where things just worked out and I'm amazed by how I dealt with it. Where did I find the power to do that? Where did I find the power to do that?

You know, um, I came in here hating everybody and everything. thing and there's a few simple prayers the book gives you that you know with the anger and resentment man and use them every time that happens and guess what I don't have the anger and resentment anymore my entire life I try to combat that and fix that and quoting today um because I use the prayers the book gives me um power greater myself does for me what I cannot do for myself you know and uh it's my uh every day that I try to live through these spiritual principles and and they're principles um which are laws gravity is a principle you know um take you up to the top everybody in this room up to the top of the the roof on the uh the Hilton here and we all jump, man. Every one of us is sitting the ground.

We're all dead. Gravity applies to everybody, man. It's not separated from anybody.

The 12 steps are principles. They apply to everybody. Everybody that works them will get the same results connected to a power grain themselves.

Um and it doesn't matter whether you believe, doesn't matter whether you think it's a good idea. Doesn't matter whether um you think any of it's going to work or it makes any sense. None of that matters, man.

All all that matters is that you take the action and do it. Um it says seek God. Seek comes through action and the clear exact precise set of directions on how to do that are in this book you know and uh the requirement in the chapter agnostic is if you think you know everything about God change your mind because um if not you're going to die an alcoholic death you know and I don't want to die an alcoholic death today.

I want what this book says is being rocked into a fourth dimension of existence to know a level of peace and happiness that I can't even wrap my head around, you know, and I get to experience that on a daily basis today. There's points in my recovery where I um through these principles, man, and this connection to this power, which I don't understand to this day, but know is there um and I didn't come here saying, you know what, I got to go get this God thing and I need some spiritual growth. I came here destroyed, you know, and the only reason I was willing to do what this book as because I was destroyed and these are the results that I got.

This is the power that showed up in my life, man. And I've seen here's the the God that I uh worship on a daily basis, man. I sit in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous, I think almost a year ago.

There's a guy that walked into the room absolutely destroyed. Family hates him, restraining orders, uh wife and kids, never have any shot in hell of ever seeing his kids again, you know, and um impossible. And I see this guy 6 months later getting a six-mon chip at the same meeting, you know, and his kids sitting next to him looking up at him like he's his hero.

You can't move from where that guy was to where he's at. It's impossible, you know, but yet it happens. And I get to see miracles like that on a daily basis.

And I know it ain't us doing it. We're just tiny links in a big human chain. It's got God all over it.

Whether you not want to believe that or not, the only person you're selling short if you uh block this power off um contempt prior to investigation, the book says, is the only thing that keeps a human being in everlasting ignorance. Um I don't want to live in everlasting ignorance anymore. I don't want to die in alcoholic death.

I want this life you're talking about being rocketed by a fourth dimension of existence to no level peace and happiness that I can't even fathom. And uh that's what I found to the point where I get to periods in my recovery uh where I just don't think it can get any better. It's impossible, man.

It's fantastic now. Um every time I've ever said it said that, it's gotten better every single time, you know. Um to the point today where I'm at is I'm excited to see what's next cuz I can't imagine it.

I can't imagine it, man. Um there's a guy in West Coast and I'll shut up with this. Uh Clancy Emerson.

Um 52 or 53 years sober, man. I got to see him speak in York, Pennsylvania uh two years ago, man. And I remember talking to him after the meeting and uh he shared this with me.

He said, "Every year he reads the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous and applies what it says to his life. The book gets smarter and his life gets better." Please tell me the downside to this. 53 years and his book gets smart and his life gets better.

I got the greatest feeling I've ever gotten the first time I ever drank. Um greatest feeling ever. Uh and from that moment forward, chased that feeling and never got back to it.

The longer I went, the farther away that feeling got, man. Um this was the opposite. through these 12 steps, I got uh tapped into that same feeling.

Took longer to get, but once I've gotten it, it's only grown from that day to this day, and it's been a little over six years, you know. Um to where I'm excited to see what's going to happen next, you know, and uh you know, I just I'm very very grateful to be here. Um you know, uh without you guys, there is no me because where I get to see the hand of God is in your lives, not mine.

You know, I can always see where he's been um compared to where he is. And I believe he's here with me tonight. I believe he's in his room, man.

and uh because I invited him here, you know, and uh I've not come here with this stuff. These are just the results that I got from living this stuff on a daily basis. And uh there ain't a person on this planet's going to tell me that God doesn't exist because I've seen too much evidence to disprove that theory.

Um you know, uh so I wish you all the best, man. If you do what this book asks you to do, you will live a life beyond your wildest dreams. This is not just about not drinking and using.

This is about living absolutely insisting on enjoying your life. You know, you better have a life beyond your wildest dreams or you're doing something wrong. That's all I have.

Thanks. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day.