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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker, >> Paul Fisher, alcoholic. >> Wow, look at all of you. We clean up good, don't we?

>> Look at the person next to you. This person is a liar, cheat, and a thief. Yeah.

Nice. Nice to meet you. This person lied, cheated, steal, deceived, had sex with people they're not supposed to.

And we're all here sober. How many people in this room are sober tonight? Is this beautiful or what?

Is this amazing? It absolutely amazes me that we're sober and that we're here tonight together um celebrating uh one more day of sobriety. Can you imagine what this valley would be like if we all drank right now?

I don't think they have enough jail space. I really don't. Uh I'd like to thank u Stephanie and Colleen um and the committee for asking me to come out here.

It's a pleasure and an honor to be anywhere. It's a pleasure and honor to be uh speaking in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. Um I'm just filled with gratitude right now.

I'm just so thankful that uh I don't have the compulsion to drink anymore. And it wasn't that way for a really long time. Um, I haven't found as a as a result of rooms like this, having a relationship with a god of my understanding, the 12 steps and good sponsorship and a little effort on my part, I haven't found it necessary to uh take a drink or a drug for that matter for 23 years since August 26, 1981.

Um, and a little less than Well, what's today's date? The what? >> The ninth.

Yeah. No, next month it'll be 24 years. What a miracle.

That's a, you know, I just I just caught myself when I said didn't find it necessary. That's that's an interesting expression, isn't it? Didn't find it necessary to take a drink.

Reminds me of an experience a friend of mine had. He was at this meeting and this guy next to him stood up and said, "I haven't found it necessary to have a drink in 25 years." And the guy rire of alcohol. He turned to the guy said, "But you're drunk." He said, "Yeah, but it wasn't necessary." And that's what I've experienced in these rooms.

That's what I've experienced in these rooms. I don't have to live the way that I used to live before I came into into Alcoholics Anonymous. I simply don't.

I no longer have conversations with Captain Crunch in the grocery store. It just doesn't happen. And I'm sure there are a few within here, you know, you've had the same experience.

I don't have to worry about the CIA anymore. I used to I was convinced that they had microphones in my teeth. And see, see, that's why I couldn't sleep because if I fell asleep, they were going to sneak in and take my body parts.

I don't have to think. I don't I don't I don't I don't live that way anymore. I don't have conversations with Captain Crunch.

My life is completely different. Um, it's been reported to me by other people that I'm simply not the same person as I was when I walked into these rooms 23 years ago. Um, I'd like to be able to stand up here and tell you that when I first came into alcoholics, I stopped drinking and that was not the case.

What happened in in my case was at the ripe age of 18, I was sentenced to 13 years in Arizona State Prison for uh narcotic related offenses. And that's where I was exposed to Alcoholics Anonymous for the first time. I went to my first meeting in the penitentiary at at the age of 19.

Now, to give you an idea what it's like to go to an AA meeting for a 19-year-old, try to think like a 19-year-old for a minute. See, at that age, everybody in the BC, they would bring people in from the free world for the meetings, and everybody in the meeting was at least 30. Now, when you're 19, that's really old.

Okay. That's really old. They even had My god, they even had people in there that were 40 and 50.

Yeah, that's old. When you're 19, that's pretty darn old. And I remember looking around the room thinking, geez, man, if I was that old, I'd quit drinking, too.

End of the road. No more fun. No more fun.

What I did, what out of that 13ear sentence, I ended up serving five years. In that five-year period, I went to a lot of meetings inside the prison. Uh, I did not stay sober.

I would read the book and it made no sense to me. I would get back to my cell and I'd read try to reread what you read in the meeting and I'd throw it across the room. It made absolutely no sense.

It was like Greek. I just simply couldn't understand it. I got out of prison for the next seven years.

I bounced inside in and out of Alcoholics Anonymous and was unable to stay sober. And I remember thinking, you know, this this thing isn't going to work for me. See, I was convinced that it would work for you because I saw I could see it in your faces.

I could see in the way you smiled and the way you hugged each other and the way you were enjoying life. You seem to be having fun. And I made one decision when I saw that.

And the decision was I want absolutely absolutely nothing to do with it because I couldn't relate to being joyful and not drinking. See, I was afraid to drink and I was afraid to not drink. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to be without alcohol.

And I couldn't imagine what it would be like to continue living the way I was. And in that 12-year period, the five years inside the penitentiary and the seven years out here going to meetings, I heard people talk about go to meetings, go to meetings, go to meetings. You see, I was convinced at one point that you had secret meetings and I wasn't invited.

Okay? I was given the front meeting. Okay?

But I wasn't given the meeting that was behind the closed door where the real secrets to staying sober were being told because everything you said in the room didn't make any sense to me. It was like Greek. I I couldn't understand what I couldn't understand what you were talking about.

Now, in that period of time, I went to a lot of meetings and I did a lot of fellowship at Alcoholics Anonymous, meaning I went to roundups, conventions, softball games, dances, and things of that nature. Now, there were a couple of minor details that I overlooked that I really didn't think that were that important in my world. One of them was the 12 steps.

I took the steps right off the wall. I thought, well, that's how you I heard you say take the steps. So, I read them.

I said, I took them. That's what I thought you meant. I didn't get a sponsor.

See, I suffer from alcoholism, not alcoholism. And we have many acronyms for that ism and alcoholism. And probably the one that I suffered from the most is I sponsor myself.

And I've had periods in my current sobriety where I have sponsored myself. And you know what I learned about that sponsor? He's an idiot.

He gave me some really bad advice. What I discovered is that it doesn't work. Now, you see, here's what I love about Alcoholics Anonymous.

I'm one of those alcoholics in here who believes he he has not changed anything. In the entire time I've been sober, I do not believe I've changed anything. But rather, what's happened is Alcoholics Anonymous has provided an environment where change can occur.

Because if I was capable of making all those changes that were necessary for me to stay sober, to get sober, I would have done it a long time ago. And it wasn't until this last time I came back into AA in 1981. Now be aware I did not come back to AA back in ' 81 because you had great donuts, good-looking women, and great coffee.

That's not why I came in here. It's been my experience that in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, we all have a couple of things in common. Every single one of us.

One is that there is loss of control and that there is suffering. Now, for the newcomer tonight, I'm going to ask you to please not listen to the drama of my story because the drama of my drinking experience is not what makes me an alcoholic. See, I didn't understand that in that 12 years because I heard people talking about drama, all the drama that happened in their lives and I thought, well, since I didn't experience that and I didn't experience that, I must not be an alcoholic.

And it wasn't until this last time when I came in, I didn't come in by by choice. It was strongly suggested that I come back to AA. What basically happened was in a blackout one night, I assaulted three police officers.

Now, in the state of Arizona, they have a statute that if you are a convicted ex-offender, meaning you're a felon, you've already done time, and you commit a violent act against any law enforcement official, it's a flat 25 years. So, I was facing 25 years in the penitentiary. I was 31 years old.

I weighed 130 pounds. That's after I put on a little bit of weight. I thought I was looking pretty good.

That's how diluted I was. And my attorney said, "You might want to consider going back to AA before we go to court, you know." And that's what I did. So, you see, I didn't come back to Alcoholics Anonymous to get sober.

So, if there's anybody here tonight and you're not sure if you're an alcoholic and you're not sure if you want to stay sober, I'm glad you're here because it has been my experience. It doesn't matter what brings us into these rooms. It does not matter.

That was my personal experience and I've seen it again and again. So I came into these rooms and for the first time I got hooked up with someone who understood this cookbook. Do any of you have this cookbook here?

It's called the AA Big Book. Did you know it was a cookbook? >> That's what it is.

It's a cookbook. I didn't know that either in that first 12 years bouncing and out. I didn't know it was a cookbook.

See, a cookbook has a recipe and if I follow a recipe as it's outlined in the book, I'll get a certain I'll get the same outcome that the authors talk about in this book. I never knew that. And basically what happened was this sponsor of mine, which I never had before, he sat me down and we and we went through the book.

He did he did not have me do any writing on my first step. He simply asked me a few basic questions. He took me into the book.

He took statements in the book and turned them into questions. He asked me simple questions like, "Did you experience the phenomena of craving for alcohol when you put alcohol in your body?" I remember saying, "No, I never craved alcohol. I just wanted more." Well, see, that's what a craving is.

What I learned as a result of going through this book with this guy is that when I put alcohol in my body, something bodily happens to me that doesn't happen to the non-alcoholic. It's called the phenomena of craving. I put alcohol in my body, I crave more.

I can't stop. Before the the uh phenomena craving, there's mental obsession. I had an abnormal reaction as described in Dr.

Silkworth's u section of the book. You don't know where he talks about the abnormal reaction. I had an abnormal reaction whenever I drank.

I mean, alcoholics are the only people I know who are who get orgasmic when they find their car. My car. I know of no non-alcoholic who gets that orgasmic excited cuz they find their car.

I was so excited. It would take me I would come to not knowing where I was. However, I did have a funny suspicion that it was a woman's house because of the decor or at least I hope it was a woman's house because I am a heterosexual and no I'm not homophobic.

Okay. But the point is I would I would come to and have absolutely no recall of where my car was. None.

you know, and not even having a clue and then finding it and getting so excited about it. Now, that's not an abnormal reaction. That's what I found out.

That's not an abnormal reaction. Peeing in my pants is not an abnormal reaction. Getting a DUI is not an abnormal reaction.

Wrecking my car is not an abnormal reaction. Getting divorced because of my drinking is not an abnormal reaction because my sponsor pointed out to me, look at the word reaction. Read comes from the Latin word meaning to return to.

So, what did I do after the consequence? I would drink again. That's abnormal.

So, when I assaulted those three police officers, uh they didn't take uh they didn't favor that too much. So, we had a little bit of a workout and there was a little physical damage at the time. Uh I almost lost my left eye because I had a bad habit running into night sticks whenever I would drink.

So, I had like 26 stitches over my left eye. The um the entire left side of my face was one big scab. I had three broken ribs.

And I come to in jail not having a clue what had happened. No recall cuz I was a blackout drinker. I remember my sponsor asking me, "Do you remember having blackouts when you drank?" I said, "I don't remember any." Of course, I couldn't remember.

I was a blackout drinker. I just don't recall. I just don't remember what I did.

And I remember coming to in that jail and standing before the judge and the judge announcing what the charges are. And I thought there's some mistake here. That's not me.

I don't do that those sort of things. That's not me. That is who I am.

That is who I am. I go through a personality change when I drink. But what I discovered in that first step, you see, is my drama had absolutely nothing to do with me being an alcoholic.

It had to do with experiencing the phenomena craving, mental obsession, loss of control, and an abnormal reaction. That's what separates me from the non-alcoholic. I have since had the opportunity to be with non-alcoholics in drinking situations.

I mean, a number of years ago, I was out at this event with some colleagues and one of them ordered a drink. They ordered the second drink and they took a couple of sips out of it and then they put it down and pushed it away and I could I could hear them saying, "I better stop. I'm starting to feel it." Do you know what that's called?

That's called alcohol abuse. That's what that is. I can't relate to that.

Let's start to I'm starting to feel it. Let's go. That's who I am.

Because once I put the alcohol in my body, I cannot control what is going to happen to me. Nor can I control what I'm going to do when I'm experiencing the mental obsession to drink. See, I never knew that.

I also did not know that I had lost the power to choose whether I will or will not drink. The authors clearly outline it in the book. That we have lost the power to choose whether we will or will not drink.

You see, if I had the power to choose to not drink, I would have exercised that power a long time ago. What I've since discovered as a result of going through those steps is that alcoholic synonymous is not for people who have power. is for people who don't have any power.

Another thing I love about Alcoholics Anonymous is that it gives hope to the hopeless because that's who I was. I was completely hopeless when I came in here because as a result of going to meetings in that 12-year period, going to lots of meetings and still not being able to stay sober, still not being able to get this thing, the one thing that I feared the most was that it was not going to work for me. It was not going to work.

So you see consequently I was skeptical, I was doubtful and I was resistive. So the first time I went through those through those steps, I went through them with one motive only in mind and it was not to stay sober. It was to prove you see I was so convinced that they would not work that I was going to prove to all of you that they don't work.

So when my sponsor asked me if I was willing to go through them, I said yes. The reason because I wanted to prove to you that they don't work. I was determined to do that.

Go through all 12 steps. Then I could turn around and say, "See, they don't work. This program does not work." Here's what I've discovered.

Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't work. It's not supposed to. I'm supposed to work.

It's not supposed to work for me. What I learned from that experience was this. Because by the time I got to step 12, something magical happened.

All of a sudden, I wanted to be sober. All of a sudden, I wanted to go to meetings. All of a sudden, I wanted my life to improve.

All of a sudden, I had hope where before I had none. What that experience taught me was this. That it doesn't matter how skeptical or doubtful or resistive I am.

that if I am honest and willing to take the action that the spiritual principles outlined in those steps are guaranteed to work in my life. It's kind of like going to the gym and lifting a weight and saying this isn't going to work. This isn't going to work.

But as long as I continue to exercise that spiritual muscle, which I never knew I even had. I knew about physical muscles, but I never knew about spiritual muscles. And you see, that's what the principles in those steps do for me.

They show me how to exercise my spiritual muscles so that I can become spiritually fit. See, that sponsor of mine, he understood once we got to that through that first step and he we discovered that I'm the real alcoholic that they talk about on page 21. I'm not the moderate drinker who can take it or leave it.

I'm not the hard drinker. This is the person given sufficient reason can either stop or moderate sufficient reason. I had lots of warnings from physicians.

I had a previous wife who said, "You need to stop drinking or I'm out of here." And I said, 'Well, where do you want to move that? Because, you see, drinking meant more than air itself to me. I wasn't going to let anybody get in the way of my drinking.

That's not me. I'm the real alcoholic described on page 21. This is the person when they begin to drink, they lose all control.

And that was me. So as a result of finding out who I was, then he saw the necessity of getting me through the steps very quickly. He took me through the steps in about four weeks.

Four weeks he took me basically he took me through the steps as the old-timers did it in the 1940s in the beginning of Alcoholics Anonymous. This has been my experience. I cannot go through the steps too quickly, but I can go go through them too slowly.

See, I don't have the power to keep myself sober. See, I'm not the person that you can say go to meetings and don't drink in between. That doesn't work for me because I'm the real alcoholic.

Don't tell me to put the plug in the jug because I'm not capable of doing that. I don't have the power. That's what the step work pointed out to me.

I don't have the power to not drink. So, as a result of that, I had what I like to call a first step experience. See, the steps are not to be understood.

That's been my experience. The steps are not to be understood. The steps are to be experienced.

If it's to be experienced, that means there's going to be some emotion. I'm going to feel some things. And I don't know about the rest of you, but you see, I couldn't afford to feel anything when I was out there drinking because I had harmed a lot of people.

I was I was an inhumane person. So, I had a lot of guilt and shame and I couldn't afford to let myself feel any of that. But you see, as a result of going through the steps, I had to feel that because by the time I got done with the first step, I had terror, which was the appropriate experience to have because once it finally sunk in between my head and my gut that there was absolutely nothing I can do to keep myself sober on my power, I became afraid.

That experience what it did for me was it promoted a desire to seek power because without that experience there's no desire to seek power in the in the remaining steps. So you see the first step is not an intellectual exercise for me. It simply isn't.

Now, the remaining steps, I got to step two and three, and here's where I ran into some difficulty because I was, you know, I grew up in a pro, the art of punishment. So, when I heard the word God, I didn't hear God. I heard a punishing God concept that he was out to get me.

And then my sponsor sat me down and he pointed out that I didn't have to live with the concept that I was taught as a child. That I could come up with my own concept of God of my own design. That was amazing to discover that Alcoholics Anonymous afforded me the autonomy to choose a God of my own understanding.

that this God didn't have to be vindictive, punitive, angry. I no longer had to live with the expression, he's a he's a what's the expression? He's a God-fearing man.

Think about that expression. I was a god-fearing man. Well, not really.

What I really was in early so I was stark raving sober. At least that's what my friends told me. >> >> So once I discovered that I could I could choose a god of my own own understanding and let go of that old concept it enabled me to move forward and do the remaining steps.

Now the first time I did a fourstep not with the person I'm talking about now but you see when I first came into aa I didn't know how to go about getting a sponsor and I heard this one guy talk and he had seven uh first birthdays. So, I figured he'd be the he'd be the ideal person to have for a sponsor. He would know how not to do it, right?

I didn't know anything about it other than what I heard him say in meetings. He didn't give me any instruction on how to how to do the inventory. He just said, "Go do some writing according to the book." He didn't tell me how to do it.

So, I went and did the writing the best I could and I go over to his house to do the inventory. And I'm really nervous and I got to go to the Do you mind if I use your bathroom? And he said, "Sure." So, I go in, I use his bathroom, and I walk into his bathroom.

Now, remember, this person is supposed to be my sponsor. This is somebody I'm going supposed to look up to. And I go into his bathroom, and without exaggeration, every single inch of the walls and ceiling was covered with pornography.

And he had a nightside table next to the toilet with a 24-hour book. Said, "Isn't this an interesting picture?" So, I go ahead and take my pee because I'm really nervous about doing this fifth step. And I go back out of the living room and about a minute or two later, he comes out completely naked.

He says, "We're going to get down to the naked truth." And I said, "I don't think so." So, I left. So, you see, I had a little bit of problem with trusting sponsors, you know, that you guys were going to get naked on me and get down to the naked truth in that way. I thought, mm- not this kid.

And of course, I started talking no-times. And I explained it to him. He said, "No, we don't do it that way.

No." I said, "Can you guarantee me you won't take off your clothes?" He He said, "Yeah, well, I can guarantee that. I can guarantee that." So then we proceeded through the steps and then um then we then we get up to step nine. That was a really difficult step for me because I you know I I had harmed a lot of people.

Okay. Now about this time my sentencing comes up from the uh from the case I had acquired from assaulting those police officers. So I end up going to u sentencing.

Now, prior to this time, see, I was convinced there was no way I'm going to get out of this deal because the the trial didn't look very good. I knew people in Canada, I knew people in Mexico, and I thought I should just leave. And every time I'd call my sponsor and ask him, "What should I do?

What should I do?" He would tell me the same three things every time I called him. He would say, "Ask God for help. Go to a meeting and help another person." Click.

You don't hear much of that these days, but trust me, back then that's what they did. They would get, at least my sponsor did, he would give me instruction and he would hang up on me. So like an idiot, I would do what he said.

I would ask God for help. I would go to a meeting and I would try to help another person. And the sentencing date kept getting closer and closer.

So finally, I just resigned the idea. I'm probably going to do 25 years. And you know, of course, the way he pointed out to me was he said, "Well, look at it this way.

You'll be able to carry a message of hope. the suffering alcoholic inside the prison. Well, that's a promising proposition.

But you see, now it was too late to go. It was too late to run. Sentencing date was on top of me.

So, he goes to he goes with me and I get before that judge and this guy starts asking me some really weird questions. Really weird. He says, "I understand you have a drinking problem." I said, "Yeah." He said, "I understand uh you also have a drug problem." "Yeah, but what are you doing about that?" And I said, "Well, I'm going to Alcoholics Anonymous." He said, "I understand they have sponsors in that program.

Do you have one of those?" And I said, "Yeah, he's right here." He said, "I also understand that they have 12 steps in that program. Are you doing those?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "That's wonderful." He reduced it to a trying to remember if I get this backwards. Class three, which is higher, class three.

Class six. >> Class six is higher. >> Class three.

He reduced it to a it was I think it was about a class six felony. Gave me one year unsupervised probation. I had to replace three uniforms.

I had to pay some hospital bills for the officers. I had to replace one pair of boots because somehow my teeth got stuck on the boots during the scuffle and and broke the officer's toe in in the scuffle. Alcoholics have strong appetites.

Okay. And I walked out of that courtroom in shock. And of course, as I'm leaving, the the the judge says, "Don't ever come before me again." And I go outside and I turn to my sponsor.

I said, "What the f just happened?" He said, "There's a higher court operating here. It wasn't up to the judge. It was up to God.

Apparently, God has another purpose for you to carry the message of hope to the suffering alcoholic out here on the streets. I mean, for the first time in my life, I got a glimpse that there was something operating my life that was larger than me that I didn't even have trust in. See, I understood the difference between faith and trust because faith is just knowing something is there.

But to turn my life over to it, to its design and direction was another story. And I didn't trust that. So I walked away from that experience having a glimpse that there is a power operating in my life that's greater than me regardless of what I think or believe about it.

And everything went well for a while. But like so many of us, or at least I did, I became complacent. I had one of those magical disappearing glove boxes.

Some of you may have one of those. That's where you throw traffic tickets in. They're supposed to disappear.

So, I I kept getting these traffic tickets and these parking tickets and I kept tossing them in there. So, we come back around doing the steps again and uh I told him about these and he said, "Well, if you want to stay sober, you're going to have to take care of this because if you don't, you're probably you're probably not going to stay sober." So, through a series of phone calls, I discovered I had a couple warrants off of my arrest. So, here I am a sober member of AA and I've got some arrest warrants out for me.

So, I made some more phone calls and I made an appointment with some judge. I don't remember the guy's name, but I made an appointment to go down there see if I could set up a payment plan to take care of these tickets. So, I'm out in the waiting room waiting to see this judge.

And I'm thinking about what I can tell him. And here's what I plan to tell him. I plan to say, "Your honor, I've been busy.

I'm so busy helping other alcoholics. I'm taking them to LARK and I'm taking them to meetings and I'm such my goodness knows no bounds, you know, and I'm I'm doing all these wonderful humanitarian acts for the suffering alcoholic. Secretary comes out and says the judge will see you now.

And I go into the judge's office and it's the sentencing judge. And I remember what he said last time I saw him. He said, ' Don't ever come before me again.

So I go in there and he says, "So what's the deal on these tickets?" What fell out of my mouth was, I've been irresponsible. Then he asked me, "What would you like to do?" I said, "I'd like to pay set up a payment plan if I can." Then he asked me how much I would like to pay. I said, "Well, I can afford 50 bucks a month.

Is that okay?" He said, "Sure, that's fine." He said, "By the way, you still going to those meetings?" He started asking me those weird questions again. Are you still those steps? Yeah, that's wonderful.

Don't ever come before me again. So I leave. I go on my merry way.

Somewhere down the road, four or five months later, I had to work late one night. The uh 6 p.m. rush hour meeting.

Crossroads used to be my home group back then. And it was a speakers meeting that night. I was about 20 25 minutes late.

And I walk into the room and studing standing up at the podium sharing his experience, strength and hope was that judge. So you see what that is. One more time.

I'm I'm constantly reminded in these rooms that there's a power greater than me operating in my life. I don't have the ability to bring that about. I simply don't.

Also, at that time in my life, I'm having some emotional difficulty. You know what that means when an alcoholic says that, don't you? It means It means they're in a relationship.

That's all it means. I'm having emotional difficulty. What does it mean?

She's not doing what I want her to do. That's all it means. I didn't know it at the time.

And I had become do so despondent at that time that I wasn't convinced that God was going to be there for me one more time. So I decided to give God a test. I wanted to test his trust and his faith because I that's what I heard you guys say in meetings.

All you have to do is ask. Just ask and God will be there. So that's what I did.

This was my plan. I went to a grocery store and my plan was I was going to take this cart and I was going to push it up and down every aisle until I got all the way over the liquor department and buy me a bottle of Jack Daniels and I was going to give God a chance to give me a sign that he was going to help me through this difficult time. So I went down one aisle and I come around the corner and lo and behold, guess who I run into?

a friend from Alcoholics Anonymous. He says, "Hey, what are you doing? I'm not going to tell him.

I can't afford to tell you the truth cuz I'm afraid of what you'll think of me. I don't want you to know I don't trust God." So, we chatted for a moment. He went his way, I went mine.

I pushed my cart along and got to thinking, "That is really cool, God. I tell you what, God, if you will just give me one more sign, then I'll leave this grocery store and I won't drink. I go down a couple aisles.

I come around the corner and lo and behold, I run into another member of Alcoholics Anonymous. He comes up and says, "Hey, what are you doing?" Told him my little spiel. Now, which wasn't the truth.

We got done with our conversation. And I push my cart along and I'm thinking, God, that is really cool. You gave me two signs.

I'll tell you what, God, if you will just give me one more, I'll have trust that you're going to help me through this difficult time. And I took my cart and I pushed it up down every aisle and nobody showed up. And I picked up a bottle of Jack Daniels.

And I got in the checkout line and there's only one person before me and they've only got one item. put my bottle up on the belt. Just about that time, there's a tap on my shoulder and I turn around, there's another friend of Alcoholics Anonymous and I just lost it.

I started to weep. When I say weep, I don't mean cry. I mean the snot bubble right there in the checkout aisle.

Okay, I cried and died in that aisle. and he and I went out and we talked, you know, and he let me know that what I was experiencing was natural, normal, that it was not a reflection of me working a bad program in Alcoholics Anonymous. It was just simply a matter of not having the experience of trusting God on a consistent basis because I didn't know how to do that.

See, I was under the delusion that through prayer I could have a relationship with a God of my understanding. But you see, by the time I got to that 11th step, the big book clearly pointed out to me as well as my sponsor that through prayer, it was impossible to have a relationship with a God of my understanding. And this is why.

Because all relationships are based on two-way communication. Two-way, not one way. So, if I'm going to have a relationship with my friend Matt here, that means I'm going to talk and then I'm going to listen.

If I do all the talking, that is not a relationship. No wonder I had so much difficulty in my relationship with God because I was under the guise of having a relationship with God through prayer when I'm doing all the talking and no listening. That's the same as Stephanie here inviting me to a party over at her house.

She calls me on the phone, says, "Come on over. We're having a party." I say, "Great." And I hang up before I get directions on how to get there. So, what I discovered through the discipline of prayer and meditation that that was the only way I'm going to have a relationship with God, not through prayer because I can't have it.

At least that's been my experience. I have to have prayer and meditation. I need to be able to have dialogue with my God and be willing to listen to what my God has to say.

Now, the thing, one of the things that really helped me a great deal was those ninestep amends because I had some amends I did not want to make. one in particular. So the second time I come back around through the steps and this is still in my first year because I had a sponsor who believed that it was impossible for me to sustain myself physically on yesterday's food.

See the hamburger I had yesterday is not going to sustain me today. So the inventory I did a year ago or six months ago is not going to sustain me today. That I need new spiritual food on a daily basis.

So I was I was taught to go through the steps on a repeat on an annual basis, maintain my spiritual conditions through the disciplines of 10, 11, and 12, and go back and revisit steps 1 through nine. Why? Because I'm not going to be able to uncover and reveal everything that needs to be uncovered that blocks me from this power in one inventory.

So coming back through the steps again, there was this one amends that I wasn't willing to make. See, when I was out there drinking, I wanted to be a gangster. I wanted to be like a I wanted to be like Dylan.

So, I went out and in my Dylan days, I robbed a Taco Bell. That was my crime of the century. You know, arm robbery of Taco Bell.

Big take. But anyway, at this point in my sobriety, he pointed out to me, he said, "You you don't make this amen, and you're probably you will drink again." Because something weird happened to me in these rooms. I started to develop a conscience, which means the things that I could get away with before, I can no longer get away with now because now I have a conscience.

Now I have a spirit that's being developed through the practice of the 12 steps and it'll eat my lunch and if it eats my lunch I'm I'll have so much pain and suffering I'll have to drink. So, in facing that amend, I here's what's really weird about the situation is that at that point in time, I was more afraid of drinking than I was of going back to jail because drinking terrified me because of who who I am and what I do when I drink. So, I did some prayer meditation on it and I go back to the Taco Bell with the money in hand.

And I'm terrified. I'm absolutely terrified because there's a good possibility I could go back to prison. So I walk in there and I ask of the manager and I explain to him that I had robbed this store back in such and such a date.

And the very first thing out of his mouth is is he says, "You know, I could call the police right now." I said, "I'm aware of that." He said, "Why in the world are you doing this?" And all I did was follow the instruction outlined in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I told him the truth. I said, "I'm a sober member of Alcoholics Anonymous and I have to go back and write every single wrong I've committed or I won't stay sober." He said, "I've never heard of such a thing." He said, ' Do all you people do this?

I wasn't going to answer that question because we know the truth in that, don't we? Because we're not always willing to go to any length to have a spiritual experience. At that point in time, I was.

Now, here's what happened as a result of that. But before I left there, I gave him the money. He asked me if there was anything he could do for me.

I walked out of there a free man. Now, here here's what that experience taught me. Do you know what a circular saw is?

Do you know what a circular saw is? It's a it's a saw that has a circular blade. You ever try to use one of those without plugging it in?

It's really hard to cut a piece of wood when you don't plug it in because it has no power source. But once I take that power tool and plug it into a power source, it has power now. And now I can do things that I couldn't do without the unaded power.

And that's what the ninestep did for me. And since the time I've been sober, it has been my experience that every single ask them one question when they come back in. And that question is, did you finish all your amends?

And every single time in the last 23 years, guess what the answer has been every single time? No. Isn't that interesting?

It hasn't been because they stopped going to meetings or doing this. I'm not saying those things didn't contribute. because that was my experience in that 12-year period.

I couldn't stay sober. I wasn't making any amends. Now, as a result of going through those steps, gaining access to this power, having that psychic change because the authors in the big book guarantee me I'm going to have a psychic change.

I'm going to have a spiritual awakening. Awakening tells me I'm going to wake up. I'm going to be alert.

I'm going to be present. I'm going to have access to power like I never had it before. So if I drink again, I'm only going to drink for one reason, one reason only.

It's because I wasn't spiritually fit. Now, who's responsible for that? I am.

God is not responsible for my spiritual condition. I come into these rooms, God gives me the gift of sobriety. It's like taking medicine.

So once I've gone through the steps, have the spiritual awakening, it's my responsibility to maintain that spiritual condition. God's not going to do that for me. God's not going to take me to the meeting.

He's not going to pick up the pencil and do the writing. God's not going to make the amends for me. I have to do that.

So that's what is meant by I'm responsible for my sobriety. So if I drink again, it's simply because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing to maintain my spiritual condition. There's another word that will describe it and it's only four letters and it's called lazy.

That's all it is. Now, before having gone through the steps, yes, I didn't have power. I didn't have access to that power.

That's why I drank. But as a result of going through those steps and gaining access to that power, I can no longer use the excuse, I drank because I'm an alcoholic. That's what alcoholics do.

Well, I drank because I don't have any power. See, that's all false. You see, that's what you guys did for me.

You guys enabled me to see the truth even though I was uncomfortable hearing it or seeing it. But that is the stark truth. I've also discovered as a result of going through these steps on a regular basis is that the a true measure of the quality of my sobriety is not measured by what I do or say in a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

It's measured by how I'm conducting myself in between the meetings. How am I treating my wife Jan who's sitting here with me tonight? How am I treating my friend Matt?

How am I treating the grocery store clerk? You know, after our meeting, we all go out for coffee. Those people, they know who we are.

They know we're AA. They know that. So, you see, everywhere I go, I am a spokesman for Alcoholics Anonymous.

That's a responsibility. That's a huge responsibility. So, how I conduct myself outside of these meetings is who Paul really is, not what he says in a meeting.

because I can come in here and and and sound very well and sound spiritual and and and say say some really neat things, but walk right out that door and be a complete jerk. So you see that's why this alcoholic has to practice all the principles, all the disciplines outlined in this book. Every single one of them.

So what it's taught me to do is the following. What I do is I pray and meditate every morning. Most days I do a 10step which is done during the day not at night according to the book.

I don't do it every day but I do it most. Every night I I do I do an evening review and I follow it up with prayer meditation. I maintain a relationship with my sponsor and I continue to take other people through the steps.

See what those steps taught me is that the the first 11 steps prepare me to do the real work. The real work is working with another alcoholic. That's what this entire program is based on.

Without that, I won't stay sober. I have a responsibility to take other people through the steps. Consequently, I just send I just transmit what was transmitted to me.

I simply take people through the steps how I was taken through the steps. I take them through them steps quickly. And as a result of that, people get these guys get hooked up to this power in a very short period of time.

So, for the newcomer here, it does not take a long time to recover. I've been on a paint cloud for 23 years. Do you know what a paint cloud is?

>> In the book AA Comes of Age, Harry KBO clearly describes what a paint cloud is. It is a state of surrender. So those of you that are on a pink cloud, don't pay attention to the naysayers in these rooms because they're there.

They'll tell us, "Oh, this too shall pass." >> No. If you're on a pink cloud, enjoy it. Enjoy it.

I've had a couple of periods where I lost the paint cloud. They're called dry drunks. In other words, I stopped doing certain disciplines.

The dishonesty returned, the manipulation returned, the arrogance returned. I wasn't approachable. Fortunately, I'm surrounded by people who love me today.

And I found a way to instill more accountability in my sobriety today. Not only am I accountable to my sponsor, but I'm accountable to new to a number of guys that I sponsor. This is what I personally did.

I came up with a list of questions and I put it on a piece of paper and I laminated it and I handed it out to them. And the questions are, Paul, how often have you done these things in the last two weeks? For example, Paul, the last two weeks, how many times have you talked to your sponsor?

Paul, where you at on your ninestep amends? Paul, how many times the last two weeks have you done morning prayer and meditation? Paul, in the last two weeks, how many times have you done an evening review?

Followed up with prayer and meditation. And of course, periodically, one of them will come up and they'll say, "Hey, are you open to a couple of questions?" And of course, my ego says, "Geez, what have I created here?" But you see, it's a beautiful thing because it enables me to be accountable to more people than just my sponsor. To the newcomer in here, I'd like to welcome you to the most wonderful organization on the planet.

This is the best game in town right here. I had no idea that I was going to be sober this long. If I had known I was going to be sober this long, I would have done a much better job along the way.

I would have gotten honest sooner. I would have gotten willing sooner and so on so forth. I had no idea that I could my life would be this good and I could be this free and be with the same woman for 12 years.

That was not me. When I first came into these rooms and you wore a skirt, I was on it. That's not me anymore.

You guys taught me how to love. I thought I knew what love was. I thought love was a feeling.

I've since discovered in the rooms of alcoholics anonymous that love is not a feeling at all. Love is a discipline. It means doing something loving when you don't want to.

Case in point. Now, the story I'm about to tell you, there's some controversy with it because Jan and I live in a two-story house. There's her story and then there's my story.

But she comes to me one day and she asked me if I'll go to this Neil Diamond concert with her. I can't stand Neil Diamond. I mean, it's not that I hate the guy.

I just don't care for his music. But, you see, it's important to her. It's important to her to do that.

So I said, "Of course, sweetheart. I'll go." So we go down to the Neo Diamond concert. We're standing in line outside the Miracle West Arena and she turns to me and she says, "Sweetheart, are you afraid that somebody you know is going to see you here?" Now my version of the story, at least this is how I remember it.

I said, "No." In my mind, I'm thinking, "No, because nobody I know would be here. Now, here's what's really ironic. I go inside in a Neil Dharma concert.

You never sit down. You're on your feet the whole time. I'm having fun.

I'm enjoying it. Until he gets done and he starts to leave. And everybody kept clapping.

I'm thinking, "Oh, please don't do that. He'll come back." And sure enough, he came back and it was a long encore. The point being is that I learned that in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous to be service to another human being to do something that is important to someone else.

Not be see I don't have to like it. If I know it's important to you I need to be able to be there for you and perform that task. I learned that from you guys.

I that's foreign to me. That's not who I am when I'm in the when I'm in the throws of my sickness, my illness, that spiritual disease that the authors talk about. But as long as I take responsibility for the gift that was given to me so freely and take responsibility of that by maintaining those disciplines and continuing to work with newcomers.

See you newcomers, you are the lifeblood of Alcoholics Anonymous and the old-timer is the heart. See, neither one can survive without the other. The heart can't survive without the lifeblood.

And the lifeblood can't survive if it doesn't have someplace to go. So you see, I depend on working with newcomers. There is no way I could ever repay you for what you've given in my life.

In my lifetime, I could never ever repay alcoholics in office. I'd like to close by reading my one of my favorite parts of the book because it what it does for this alcoholic is it clearly reveals what my what my personal experience has been like in these rooms. I'm going to change one word in it.

>> Is that blood? >> H just a little. I'm okay.

I'm used to bleeding. Here we go. The last 23 years of my life have been rich and meaningful.

I have had my share of problems, heartaches, and disappointments because that is life. But also, I have grown known a great deal of joy and a peace that is the handmaidaden of an inner freedom. I have a wealth of friends and with my AA friends, an unusual quality of fellowship.

For to these people, I am truly related. first through mutual pain and despair and later through mutual objectives and newfound faith and hope. And as the years go by, working together, sharing our experiences with one another and also sharing a mutual trust, understanding, and love without strings, without obligation, we acquire relationships that are unique and priceless.

There is no more aloneeness with that awful ache so deep in the heart of every alcoholic that nothing before could ever reach it. That ache is gone and never need return again. Now there is a sense of belonging of being wanted and needed and loved.

In return for a bottle and a hangover, we have been given the keys of the kingdom. Is that beautiful? We don't have to suffer anymore.

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day. >>