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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Folks, thanks very much. I'm Tom Ivester, an alcoholic.

>> Hey Tom, >> you know it's bad news. Guy starts drinking before he even starts talking. >> I've been looking at that water the whole time I was sitting there.

Thanks, Doug. Thanks for that history. I I appreciate that.

I I appreciate um Oh, by the way, let me tell you, my home group is it's a synonym for the working with others group. I belong to the primary purpose group in southern Pines, North Carolina. And I was rather gently nudged into Alcoholics Anonymous February the 2nd, 1957.

And uh and it took it took and I'm still here. Swear to God, I don't think I'll ever come to the place that I believe that that happened and that it's natural and that it's real and it got a chance of li of lasting. Uh ain't no way a guy that like me could could stay sober that long.

If I don't know I was going to stay stay sober that long, I think I'd have quit. That's a that's a long time. Uh, I want to congratulate the the group on the four good years and also the color scheme.

I you know what struck me? These folks went so far in decorating the room that they had a book printed to match the decor. That's great.

That's just great. I I really do do appreciate seeing groups celebrate anniversary because not all groups do and and I just somehow think when we take it for granted that that another year is just a routine sort of a thing. Uh we run into some jeopardy about letting it get a little weakened down.

And so I I really like to make a big deal out of that. I I believe in celebrating personal anniversaries. I know some folks who say they they don't celebrate anniversary because they think it's an ego trip.

And I always tell them that the only way it's an ego trip is if we think we did it. And if we don't think we did it, then it's what it's a recognition of what's so true. That this truly is a we thing.

And when we celebrate, we celebrate together. And we acknowledge together that this dude works. And it's kind of important.

I I'll tell you just one little story before I get going with drinking and throwing up and stuff that that that just sort of brings to mind. I I was uh so I spoke I was speaking down in Lumberton, North Carolina one night. If you ever drive to Florida on 95, you go past Lumberton and uh if you're thinking person, you better keep going.

That don't don't stop. I was speaking to a group there and a young fellow came up to me after the meeting and he said, "I really wanted to talk with you because I heard you last week in Pennsylvania." And I said, "Well, it's okay now. I don't speak at every meeting.

it'll be okay to come back some more. And he said, "No, it's not that." He said, "Uh, you mentioned when you spoke that it had then been 30 years and that you had been sober since your first meeting." And he said, "I can't begin to tell you how important that was to me." And and here's what he shared. And it's one reason that I never I never tell share my experience.

Promised I never would after he told me that about about being able to stay sober. He said, "I was actually beginning to think something was wrong with me because I was still sober from my first meeting because it looked like everybody that had any sense at all was in and out like a yo-yo." And and here's wimpy little old me staying sober. And I thought, my god, how important that is because I'm not unique.

Many of us, many of us are able to come in and for whatever reason are able to grab hold of this thing and hang on to a brand new way of life. And I think that's enormously important because it does give the hope. It does give the the the the the clear example that this thing can work.

Uh, I personally think that slips are an aberration that that if I work real tight and close, I personally have never seen anybody go out and drink because the oded on steps. Never have never seen anybody because they wore out on service. What I've seen is people who UD, you know, who underdose on those things who get into trouble.

And so I think there's a real close relationship between the the the the intimate involvement in doing the actions laid out in the program and success and and so I'm just absolutely uh delighted to have that that experience and delighted to be here with you and I do congratulate working with others group on the uh on the anniversary. I I could spend this whole meeting just sort of eulogizing the program and greeting old friends. I've got a lot of good friends in this in this group here tonight.

And it's great to see all my buddies. It's great to see a lot of people that I don't know. Maybe even better, we'll get to get to make some new friends.

But that's not what we do. We're not here to eulogize. We're here to do a lot of bad drinking.

Try not to do too much. One other thought that'll kind of bracket what I want to what I want what I guess the way I want to approach this thing. Sometimes I think you know along that same line of of um you know of what is it and and I can't answer the question but what is it that causes us to have such radically different experiences in this program there are indeed some some u who are able to grab onto that brass ring of sobriety when they first come in and hang on to that sucker for the rest of their lives.

That's a very legitimate experience that happens to a lot of people. There are others, of whom there are many, who grab it and lose it and then suck it up and come back and grab it again and sometimes again and again. And sometimes some of these will grab it and hang on to a new life.

And there's some who never do. Some some decor was about destroyed. Some who never do.

And I don't know what the difference is. I I guarantee you by the time I get finished here tonight, you'll know that mine is not based on merit or deserving or character or anything like that. I don't know what makes the difference, but I like to think about that because I never want to get to the point that I take for granted what has been given to me.

And I count myself a tremendously fortunate guy to have been able to hang on to this thing. And you'll understand more why when I when I get into that. Uh, I also think that I'm the most rewarded man in the United States of America.

And uh, and so that's really what I want to talk about is the unlikely nature of being here and and the and staying here and then the payoff that comes and want to talk about group a little bit too. So that's an ambitious agenda. I I don't really know why why I'm an alcoholic.

Don't even spend much time thinking about it because what I found out is that it doesn't really matter. It's interesting to consider and you can get all kinds of theories. They are theories are a dime a dozen.

Some of them I like, some of them I could care less for. Some that is psychological, physiological, environmental, chemical, on and on and on. There's one theory that I'm kind of fond of that is that alcoholics just tend to not be like average people.

That we tend to be a cut above just the average walking around person. We tend to be a little keener, a little sharper, quicker on the uptake, a lot more endowed with creative ability and uh and we just almost explode with all the talent that's just aching to get out. Some even say that we may have a slightly larger brain than the average person.

I've heard that discussed for almost 46 years. Nowhere except in Alcoholics Anonymous. >> >> I never heard anybody over at Princeton researching the incredible alcoholic mind, but but that's a great theory, you know, that that uh and I'll only mention, I don't know if I'll come back to it or not, but you hear that word potential, there's probably not a single alcoholic in this room who hasn't been beaten to death with, good God, you've got such potential.

You could be such a winner if you just didn't drink so much. And uh and I tell you, I've come to believe that in a way, and maybe I'll get to a little of that. So, I don't really know why.

I think it's the army's fault, really. I I went in the military when I was just a kid and uh got off to a decent start. Went through training down in South Carolina.

Hated it with I I loved the army for about 30 minutes and then I met the first guy in charge and and I swear I don't know what was wrong with that cretton. He he uh we were going through getting issued army uniforms and I didn't particularly like them anyway, but they were going to give us some and they gave us an item that I didn't recognize. And I said, "What is this?" Pajamas.

Well, that's a bad mistake in in Uncle Sam's army. They may wear them now, but they didn't end. And so he took the opportunity to demonstrate his prowess.

So he said, "Did you hear what this yo-yo said talking to 200 people?" And of course, nobody did him. He said he wanted to know if this was pajamas. You Well, it was long johns what it was.

And uh he said, "What do you want next? Lace panties." And it went downhill from there. I didn't like it.

I went through training with a thousand guys and was picked out as one of the five outstanding men in that than the folks that went through that. And and when I was picked out, I knew that that was a dumb selection. I I knew that was a bad selection.

I was an eightball of the First Order. I made Goomer Pow look like Sergeant York. The old Sergeant York, not Ali.

No, that's North. Anyway, they >> >> and they picked me out and because I had such outstanding traits, they were going to let me go to leadership training and then into OCS to become an officer. I knew that was a goof and shortly afterward they knew that was a goof and I I started boozing as soon as I found town and the true Tom showed up and uh rather than going to officers Canada school, I wound up being stationed in Alaska and the Aleutian Islands for 25 months.

Wonderful, wonderful place. makes New Jersey look like Key West. God, I thought I was in Key West today.

I was expecting to come into a blizzard, landed in Newark, and I said, literally said to myself, "My god, the guys got lost. This ain't New Jersey." And, uh, thank God for good weather. Uh, I wound up up there.

Didn't like it. I'm telling you, I was a miserable cat. I didn't like anything about that place.

I had that duty out in the illusions. And here I am, a fine young American who had gave his life for his country. And I'm stationed on a frozen rock out in the middle of the bearing sea or something.

I don't know what it was. It was cold. That's what it was.

That's the only place I've ever seen where it snowed sideways. It didn't fall like decent snow. That sucker came right flat into your face in any way you turn.

Oh Jesus. And I'm standing out there with a gun guarding the thing. And what?

For what? I mean, she if some Russian comes over to steal the rock, I'm supposed to shoot him. I guess I I'd have helped him load the thing up if he wanted to go.

I You let me go with him. Well, now that's what aggravated my condition. That's the reason I say the army caused it.

I I don't think they caused it, but I I learned the words has been an exacerbated exa I think it exacerbated the problem that it made it speeded it up in my case. I think I I think probably uh sped my progression about 10 years because somewhere it I solved the dilemma of being in a place like that. The way I solved a lot of dilemmas, I got drunker than a billy goat and tried my level best to stay that way.

I'd come up for air once in a while, but I didn't stay long because man, most of the time I didn't know if I was in the Illusions or Hawaii. Didn't much care, you know, because I was unconscious a lot. And I think that did speed it up.

And we had a bunch of folks who were the kind of pure heart, you know, the you know, the kind that uh I mean it fine. I'm one of them now, but the kind that get out and walk even when they ain't going nowhere. I mean, they just get out and walk to walk.

Climb mountains for what? Hunt stuff. God knows it's hunting us most of the time.

And they get out and hunt the stuff. Climb glaciers. I mean, pure folks, you'll eat.

We didn't have y tofu back then, but they ate stuff, whatever it was. We shipped a whole boatload of them home one time talking to themselves. Went crazy as a bed bug.

That is no place to be sober. Nobody got any business sober up there. The old drunks are laying up there fat and happy.

They So I think it speeded it up. And that and that's that sort of was characteristic of my life. I just sort of sort of took off.

I I got I I just got into a pattern of screwing up everything I touched. I I thought when I first got in a I must have been born alcoholic because I acted like one. The first time I ever drank to the untrained eye, it would appeared that I drank too much, but I always thought I drank just about the right amount.

All I could get it just it and and I really don't think I was born alcoholic. I might have been tilted in that direction, but I think there some things have to settle in for alcoholism to become a a very real illness. And so I think what I was I was a guy that was a a sort of a miserable cat.

I didn't fit well in the world. I was uncomfortable around people. I didn't relate well to folk.

I was a very isolated guy and and uh I always resolved those conflicts by acting the opposite. And so when I drank, man, I was like a guy. No, no mystery why I drank.

It freed me from the prison of my life and let me come out and have a good time. It let me play with anybody and and I I just absolutely loved the feeling of of the freedom that came, that relaxation, that that that comfortable thing that came. I love the style.

I I I took up drinking as a way of life. Didn't matter whether alcoholic or not. I just like the drinking environment.

I loved where people drank, how they drank. I liked what they did when they drank, unless they did it to me. And uh some of that Well, it was a strange kind of a deal.

Loved it. Loved a smoky jazz club on on a shoot. I could I talk myself into it if I get to reliving that too much.

I mean, I just loved it. I that was just a natural kind of a thing for me and I I tell you I would be doing that today had it not been for one thing. I developed alcoholism.

It occurred somewhere during that foggy period up in Alaska in the illusions. Don't know when and never had a clue about it until I was sober and alcoholic synonymous. But when it started to become clear to me that something had happened that that that that put me in trouble with booze.

I was sober in AA for a good while. I never had a clue about that until until until I was here. But I when I look back I could recognize that even though it was a foggy picture, I could see that at some point I experienced what we call crossing a line.

You don't find it written anywhere. It's just sort of an old saying that's come up because it it tends to describe. And when I look at the drinker that that I observed that fella, it was kind of wild, celebrational, recreational, whoopy kind of drinking that that just I I loved an endless party.

But there was a point where the character of the drinking changed, not the amount. I drank as much as I could before I was alcoholic. When you get so drunk you can't lay on the floor.

That's about as good as you can do. I don't care whether you're alcoholic or not. Man, I've been drunk.

I couldn't blink. Stuff coming out my nose, you and and you never thought I had enough. But something happened in that if I took a drink, I could not predict how long I would drink or how much I would drink, nor could I predict what I might do.

And that became the story of my life. A guy that just when I drank, something happened. I don't understand all that that that that happened to me.

And like I said in the beginning, I don't really spend a lot of time on that. I find it relatively interesting, but almost totally unimportant to study the the the wherefors of alcoholism. Almost totally unimportant in terms of my recovery.

It doesn't really matter how it happened. I'm not a the village idiot, so I've got some kind of notions about it, but I don't take it very seriously. The most important thing that I know about alcoholism is that I have it.

wherever it came from. And so when I look back, I could see that there was something happened to me that I don't understand, but it was basically like this that if 10 people take a drink, nine of them go on about their business. One of them doesn't.

And I happen to be that one. And whatever it is, I don't know. But but from the time I cross that line, I think my future was predictable to anybody but me.

And uh I lived in the I really like the thing Ken read that uh that I heard it several times in what he read that you you hear the word delusion that comes out in that you know the word you'll never hear when you read that book is denial. You'll never hear it. It isn't in there.

And obviously not because Bill didn't know the word. I think that guy knew every word in every language. But it certainly wasn't that.

I don't think he used the word because I don't think it aptly describes the condition. Delusion is a different thing because what started to happen to me when I crossed that line developed alcoholism is that I'll just sum it up in a hurry because I do want to talk about some other stuff and uh what started to happen was that I would start winding up in everinccreasing jackpots of of all sorts. wake up in a psych ward because somebody thought I acted peculiar.

In a hospital with stuff broken that I didn't even know was injured. In in jail with sickening regularity. God, that got to be a norm.

Every time somebody mentions Kansas. This is not Kansas, Doug. This is New Jersey to the hilt.

Every time somebody somebody mentions Kansas, I I remember December the 28th of 1951, that was the day that I was picked up off the floor of the Junction City, Kansas jail and taken into the base to be ceremoniously discharged from the military with an undesirable discharge for alcoholism. A 21-year-old budding rocket scientist. And and that was well I always think of that when I think of Kansas.

But but but what my life became was just that endless series of waking up in in strange places. I won't go into a whole bunch of them because God I mean they some of them are funny after about 10 years. They blackouts don't get funny for a long time.

I don't know of anything more terrifying in the annals of alcoholism than than blackouts. That thing of waking I don't need to tell you about it. Many of you understand blackouts and the only time you understand them is when you've experienced it to to to wake up with that panicky feeling of for God's sakes, where am I?

What have I done? You and and that that horrible feeling of uncertainty till you start to get the clue. You know, our book describes it pretty vividly in one place.

In fact, I used to think it was a little bit of overkill where they referred to uh to the condition I'm talking about as pitiful, incomprehensible demoralization. And for a long time when I read that, I always kind of thought in the back of my mind, old Bill got a little carried away with describing a hangover until I started to clearly see what happened when I would crash somewhere. And no matter where it was, in a wrecked car, in the wrong straight, woke up, say, woke up one time married to a woman I didn't even know, for God's sake, that that takes bad liquor to do that to you.

But that's what it became. And and and that endless series of stuff. And and every time I would wake up, even though I didn't think it out at that time, but when I look back, clearly what would happen every time was pitiful incompetence with demoralization because I'd take a look.

And when I finally figured out where I was, you know, that panicky feeling and then I got to a point just to illustrate was was if I heard metal clanging, I relaxed because I knew I was in the right place and nobody ever put me in jail by mistake. At least they wouldn't admit it. And uh nobody ever apologized for it.

That's for dog sure. And uh sometimes it was not all that pleasant. I I'll just tell you one.

I I woke up one morning, one of of many. I woke up one morning and or came to and I'd gotten to a point where I was greeted often enough with really a bunch of folk who didn't understand. And as soon as they'd see my eyes open, they'd pounce on me.

You What are you doing here? You hate to say where or who are you? Well, you may not remember and if you do, you may not be sure what name you've used, you know.

So, there they rude rude people that just sort of sort of greet you that way. So, I got so I would wake up and never show evidence, you know. I mean, I wouldn't open my eyes and so I would just come alert, you know, sort of.

And uh and I lay there still listening for the sounds of the environment. And one boy I woke up and there was a maddest woman I think I've ever heard in my life. God, she was mad.

And she was just having an enormous hard time with some drunken sob in her daughter's bed. Well, I just had that brilliant alcoholic mind told me that there was a chance she was talking about me. I just figured that.

I knew I wasn't home. And uh that now a drunk can lay still. I I mean I was still bad.

I didn't blink. I didn't breathe. I'm just laying there.

And I'm trying to figure out number one where I am. And number two, how do I get out of here? You know, I didn't want to go past her.

And so when I saw my chance, I saw a little crack in the door. And so I just bolted out the door. Well, it wasn't as bad as it sounds.

It was the house next door to mine. That ain't bad. Yeah, man.

I usually missed it my whole state that you kind of proud of that. you I almost got home. My god.

Well, it was that kind of stuff. And so every time that would happen, my response would be that pitiful incomp and it would be always something like this. You've done it again.

Done it again. You're no good. You're that moral whipping.

You're worthless. You have no discipline. You have no responsibility.

You got absolutely sorry, as we say down in North Carolina. And and and that was probably all applicable at that point. and then would proceed the options you I'd start thinking and number one would always be why don't you just end it why don't you just end it all everybody would be better off and and I wouldn't debate with that today or if not that did you ever have the thought of I think I'll just keep going I'll just disappear I I'll just go on and just not bother anybody anymore and sort of walk off into the sunset an appealing kind of an illusion that comes out of that delusion.

And and if not that, do I suck it up and go back and make up another set of lies and try it again. That was a routine that went on not once, not a dozen times. That went on time after time after time.

Now, let me tell you what was peculiar and what I the point I started to make with that what Ken was reading. I never clearly saw that behavior. I never clearly saw that until I was sober a good while in Alcoholics Anonymous.

That's a delusion that the book calls it an inability to differentiate the true from the false. And when I was in that kind of condition, the real world looked like it was behind a dark screen. That world that I was in was the only one that had tangibility.

and and and so that delusional world of not being able to see my own behavior and I never saw that until I was clear in alcoholics anonymous and cleared up and so that that thing just proceeded on. I I I I did very well. I was mentioned about potential.

I was always the kind of guy that if I was sober, I made a pretty good impression. I I always did. It's something like what you were reading there about that even in our in our kindness or even in our best times there's always something underneath.

Yeah. Yeah. I was the kind of guy that when I was sober I look like a world beater.

I go in I look for a job. People would hire me for a better job than I'm looking for. They put me in charge of something.

All I want to do is pick up a box or something, you know, and they put me in charge and then I'd work my way down. I've never had a promotion in my life that I can recall. And uh and so I had that kind of an ability.

I I that that that innate potential or something to look good, but an unfailing ability to take a drink at exactly the wrong time. And so it just screwed up. And then incrementally I just kept working my way down.

And in eight years, eight short years really, it's a short period of time. It didn't seem like it then, but it was a short period of time. I went from a fellow who bounced out of high school in North Carolina at 16 and then the fellow who went through the military thrown out and then wound up up in the state of Michigan building automobiles when I I guess that's what I was doing.

They they accused me of it anyway, but I I didn't know much about it. And then in in a city of a half million folks, I wound up unemployed and darn near unemployable. I won't go into detail, but the last quasi legal job I had was u I ran a place called Eddie's Lounge and uh that was a very euphemistic term for that.

That it was quasi legal at best. We we sold a lot of stuff in there, some of it on the counter. Well, anyway, it it's a nice young boy like me that would have not not have been on my resume of places that I would go and I was fired, of course.

I was the drunkest guy in the place. Had to be. Jesus, I couldn't stood that sober.

And uh and then hit the street in the last couple years. I I just basically lived essentially on the street. Yeah, I was my most frequent address was either the county jail or they had a movie theater called the Rialto and and a good friend of mine just died and he and I had a a wonderful time.

He got sober and he was in the same environment I was. We drank together. I always accused him of stealing my shoes in that movie theater and we had fun with that for 30 years and he was just killed in a plane crash very recently.

But funny about the survivors and how they cling together. E Well, and that's and that that was where I wound up, you know, just living a kind of life that I I honest to God didn't even know existed when I grew up in Mayberry, man. That I I didn't know the world was like that, but I was well accustomed to.

It's funny when you go down that the the change is so subtle or I guess I'm so groggy that I didn't even recognize how bad it was till it was over. I wound up where at what one what at one time would have been a totally unthinkable way for me to live became the only normal way for me to live. Remarkably normal.

It it was not surprising in a way, but when I started thinking about it, I was sober for a pretty good while before I ever started thinking in terms of decency or quality. You know what I mean? I was the kind of guy that would just instinctively reach out for the inferior because that was what my life had become was just automatically thinking in those second rate terms.

And you recovery doesn't lead to a second rate existence. it leads to some real real life with integrity and purpose and and so but that's where I wound up and you know it'd be nice if if I could tell you that that one fine day I had enough and call for help found it and um and uh never sinned again that it but it just didn't work that way. Yeah.

I was one of those guys who wound up doing. Many of you are well aware in here, but I was one of those guys who wound up doing the kind of thing that I know every alcoholic in the world fears doing. Thank God most don't, but some some of my dear friends in here have experienced the same thing.

And and I woke up to the to the to the horror that makes blackouts so terrifying. It's that unknown quality of good God, what have I done? And so I'd always I'd had hundreds of times when I'd wake up and I'd be confronted with the terror and it would always be a useless terror.

It would one morning I woke up in jail there in Flint. Nothing knew about that and was greeted with the fact that the night before I had run down and killed two people in the street of that city. And um and it's there's no way to imagine there's impossible to imagine the impact of that.

I I couldn't even describe it adequately. It's just I believe that the mind only accepts what it can handle and and and my response was just basically to push it away and say no no no and then gradually accepted truth. only time I'd ever been in jail and try to get out.

And then somebody, one of the policemen there, I think, learned that I had family in North Carolina, had mother and sister, and they contacted them and and uh told him I had a guy up there in a lot of trouble. And so they came up and and um I didn't want to get out of jail. I was ashamed to get out of jail.

I couldn't I couldn't even fathom the thought of facing anybody. And um but I didn't know how to say that to anybody. Yeah.

I was just a withdrawn guy just absolutely backing away from any semblance of life. And so they came up and and they got an attorney, negotiated my release on bond. I was charged with manslaughter and I was released July 17 of of 56.

I I knew I knew that I would not drink. I mean, my god, how could you drink after something like that? The more appropriate question is, how could you not drink after some?

But I didn't know that. I had no earthly idea about alcoholism, but I just know I got out, stayed sober, a day and a half by walking the streets, and then I started to drink, of course. And from July to November of 56, I drank literally like nobody I've ever seen.

I And I worked with I have worked with many thousands of alcoholics, held a guy in my arms while he died one time. And even he was not in the frame of mind that I was. I was a guy that just gave in condition.

I'm I have absolutely no doubt even then that I was trying to drink myself. That was obvious. I mean, a wino could have diagnosed me.

And uh and so that went on just big time from till the 19th of November on that day. I had a I had about that much in a bottle of gin and uh and went went to court. There was no trial.

I had no defense. I the hell of a blackout is you you're not a witness to your own behavior. I couldn't testify anything.

you know, they and so they held her I was of course found guilty and and sentenced to a max of 15 years in in the Michigan State Penitentiary. Now, that was I mean, I knew I was going away. That was there was no shock about that.

But there's something about the shock of the reality, I think, because my response when when that reaction, I guess, when when that judge passed that sentence, I had an instinctive reaction of fear, I guess, a very normal thing, and almost simultaneously most real sense of relief I'd ever known because I knew it was done. It was over. Not optimism, not hope, not a future's coming.

I knew it was done. It was all over. And walked into that place the next day.

I didn't Well, I did walk in. I was chained with five other guys. And we walked into uh to that institution at that time.

And I think it probably still has the honor, if you can call it that. It was the largest walled institution in the world at 54 acres behind a 40ft wall. And and I knew when I walked in to that thing, it it's just a chain of human misery that walks into places like that.

And and most folks come out of there worse than they came than they went in. And and so I I knew when I when I went into that place that that I would never come out of their life. And I honest to God didn't care.

I mean, I was past caring. I was past concern or fear. I was just into total isolation.

And they put me in. I sat in a cell for the first month that I was there, did anything I could do to keep from thinking. And you know, it's amazing to me the little things that that make a difference.

I I don't know what happened to everybody. I listen closely when people talk about what happens to them. But it's a it's amazing the the little things that come to be turning points.

You know, I'd had a lot of turning points in my life. Always turned the wrong way. But when things started to turn the right way and I look back, it was amazingly simple stuff.

One of the things that happened, the guy sometime during that first month was there called me out for an interview and and I'm sure a lot of people did gave me MMPIs and all that kind of stuff. This guy called me out, did a little social work interview and he'd asked the questions he was trained to ask and I I I did the did the answers I was trained to give. Lied like a dog.

I'm sure you I mean I didn't have to make up a lie. I just instinctively lied. That that was a natural day.

It would have been abnormal for me not to lie. And uh apparently the answers don't have a lot to do with the evaluation because he he did what they taught him in college. If you see a guy who's got a file like that and it's all about drunk, you ought to tell him you ought to go to AA.

Well, now I'd had a lot of people tell me when they would have me up against the wall over my drinking that I was alcoholic or drunk or bum or what have you. I'd heard that forever. But I had never had anybody suggest what you did about it.

Other I mean some would say, "Why don't you quit?" And I never could think of any good reason to quit. I got Only people I ever saw who quit looked like they'd quit something. I mean, there was a Well, none I wanted as a role model, that's for sure.

And drunk was bad enough. My god, you imagine. So, and uh so this guy laid that stuff out and and uh he said, "You've had a lot of trouble with booze." I said, "Oh, yeah." And uh then he said what I'd never heard before.

I don't remember if he said AA or alcohol, but he said, "We've got an AA group here at the institution and I think you ought to go." It was just a flat conversational kind of thing like that. Wasn't it didn't didn't capture me like we do nowadays that didn't put a news on me. Say if you don't go, we're going to slam dunk you or something that just said you ought to go.

And then I got a little p looked like an old telegram. I got a piece of paper about like that and it said you you're you're cleared to go to your first meeting February 2nd of 57th. I didn't particularly want to go to alcoholics.

I I didn't believe I was an alcoholic. I how how could you possibly be an alcoholic at 24 with so much potential? Yeah, I'd had folks tell me I had a lot of potential and I never forgot it.

had a lot of folks tell me I was a worthless bum, but I promptly disregarded all that. You but this I didn't believe I was an alcoholic. Not not not whatsoever.

That was a totally foreign term to me. But for some reason that that day came February 2nd, I I walked into my first meeting. I didn't want to join a I I I was the only if I had any a drive or any ambition at that point, it was to disappear.

I I mean I just I just simply I didn't want to engage with anybody. I've never been more isolated in my life. I didn't communicate with anybody.

I had no conversations with anybody about anything unless they asked me a direct question. And I think the only reason I went to that first meeting was that that I was just beat. I I was just absolutely beat.

I had no resistance. I couldn't even put up a fight. And and so I walked in.

One guy spoke to me that had about 300 folks in that group. Became my home group. It'll always be my home group, the recovery group of Jackson Prison.

I don't want to be a regular member, but I that is it funny how the place where it works for you is always important. No matter where it is, there's little that that folks could ask you to do at that place you wouldn't do. I go back every couple of years, every chance I get, I go back up to Jackson.

Now, everybody I knew there's dead. Yeah. I'm the only thing living, I believe.

And uh I go back. don't know anybody, but oh boy, I know where I am. And I go back to make sure number one that I ain't there and uh and the other is to maybe say something to the guy who is, you know, and so has a bit of a purpose, you know, kind of a I had a I won't go into it, but I had a had a chance one time to um I didn't ask for it, but somebody I was up there visited and somebody said, "Would you like to see your old sale?" And I said, "Geez, that'd be nice." You know, and uh and uh so we went and I'll just tell you this much of it.

We went to uh went over that block. I tell you, it's a funny thing when you retrace your steps. Hey, never go back to a place where somebody's telling me about how Frank gives directions to somewhere that you better listen close because what he does is tell you all of his drinking spots and by the way, a street name somewhere, you know.

But it's funny, isn't it? when you walk back over your own history and uh particularly if it's one where your life hung by a slender slender thread. So we walked walked out on the yard and I had private thoughts.

I didn't get in conversation anybody just private thoughts you naturally had special meaning to me. I remember walking across that yard when that was where I lived and knew that's where I would die. walked across a yard where every second of every day was filled with tension and anxiety, about everything about nothing.

Where a man's inhumity to man was normal, where sincerity was looked at is stupidity. Yeah. Private thoughts, you as we walked along that place, went into that cell block.

It's funny what you what you notice you when we walked in. It's an old old penitentiary and the the the the brick stairs that go into the dorm to the block were worn, you know, and I I just sort of mentally calculated how much I contributed to that groove. Yeah, that was my groove.

It went in went up. I was my address, if you can call it that, was 3938. And then I was at sale number 39 on the third tier in sale block number eight.

And we walked in, nice young correctional officer showing us in. And we walked up and he walked over in front of a sale and he said, "This is it." And I said, "What?" He said, "39. Wasn't that your sale?" And I said, "Yeah, but that ain't it?" And he, "Well, it is." See, he's arguing with me.

And I said, "No, no, man. You guys have rigged something." And he said, "Well, where is it?" Like I wouldn't know, but good God. And I looked right.

They all look exactly alike. But when you lived in that sucker and was convinced you'd never come out of it, you don't forget. So I looked down and and I said, "That's it." Went down.

It was a young I'll tell you more than I meant to, but it's just intriguing to me that went went down and it was Saturday night in a penitentiary in a maximum custody joint. It was either bedum or tomblike silence on Saturday night. Normally it's tomblike silence with an occasional yell that has no connection to anything.

And um so we walk in now you three suits walking in there on Saturday night is bad news. I mean you got you know Nars or FBI or somebody is in town and uh walk up to 39 and so we're looking in a young fellow named Collins was in there and uh the guy officer said you want to go in and I said uh is it all right to call? I said all right he said yeah go on in.

So I opened the door I went in. Well, I you know I realized I this is pretty shocking that somebody's going to come barging into your cell on Saturday night in a max joint and uh I said I said look look Mr. Collins I'm sorry to bother you but you see I used to live in this cell and I just wanted to come by for old time sakes and take a look at it.

Do you mind? He said hell no I don't mind. You can have this sucker if you want.

I said, "Oh, no, buddy. It's your time. It's your time." And we chatted just a couple minutes.

But what a feeling, eh? What a feeling to to go back with a totally different life and look at that same place with new eyes. So, it it's it's a strange thing about how it works.

And so, I w I walked into that first meeting, not a clue of becoming an AA member, not a clue of staying sober for the rest of my life, not a clue of anything. I was like a guy on Thorazine. I just kind of shuffled in uh just with with no real meaning or purpose.

Just they said to be there, I'd have been there. If it had been the Russian infantry, I'd have probably done the same thing. And as I walked in, sat down.

Little did I know that that was to be a turning point. I certainly didn't recognize that day. I walked in to the recovery group and they conducted the meeting similar to this.

Read different stuff, but read a lot of it. They prayed. I knew they're going to do that.

you ain't no way you're going to work with drunks without praying. So, I knew they'd pray some. And then they turned the speaker loose and and he was a guy named Shy Walker.

Marvelous man. And he got up and told his story. And and I I tell you that was a a not that day, but that that man getting involved in my life was one of the turning points of my life because he told his story and I didn't identify with him.

He was as different from me as anybody I've ever met in my life. different man. Little short beat up little old guy.

Got a third grade education. Just just one one of life's simple down to earth people. He was he was an exboxer and I tried that for a while and I was not good at it.

I man they kept putting that me in there with people big as me and they were knocking my eyes out. And Shia was a boxer and apparently he wasn't much better than I was, but he stayed longer and uh he got that poor boy got beat up something fierce marked up. You didn't need to ask him what his hobbies were.

You could tell and but I listened to that guy tell his story and uh now it didn't connect with me whatsoever. the amazing thing. I was back the next week and the only thing that brought me back the next week was that magical enthusiasm that was part of that guy's life.

He was one of the most alive dynamic people. I absolutely treasure enthusiastic people because I think it's a healing force. I I think it's a powerful force for attra.

When we talk about this program being a program of attraction, we're not talking about the stuff on the wall. The program of attraction is how I interact with my fellow alcoholics. That's the program of attraction.

And I've seen very few people attracted with gloom and doom. And so I'm a great believer in the value of enthusiasm and demonstrating that there's actually life after recovery. And thank God for that guy because that's now I could not have even thought that then, but I reacted to it.

I responded to it and I found myself back the next week. couldn't have told anybody why I didn't have to. Kept going back.

I was in aa I was as miserable as anybody I've ever seen and as and as out of place as any place I've ever been in my life. Now I was a young guy back then. I still think I am, but I I was a real young guy then.

24 by today's standards is not very young. By 1956 and 57 standards, that's young. And uh I was the youngest member in that entire group.

I was the youngest guy in that penitentiary. So I was obviously the youngest one in that group. They didn't keep me in there because I was Charlie Manson.

I I mean I was just so wild and crazy when I drank that they knew that it'd be high risk put me in any day. I stayed in Max the whole time I was in there. And uh so I I I was tremendously out of place.

I didn't feel like I belonged. I said I was an alcoholic cuz I hated to be the only one out of 300 that was something else. And they all said they were.

I Yeah, me too. You know, but it didn't mean a thing. It was just a word.

And uh I kept going back. There were some subtle but important things happened. I I won't take the time to dwell on this much, but one reason that I am I'm a strong group man.

And when I say group man, I'm talking about a purposeful, well ststructured group that that has a design for living that's well laid out. I I believe in that because that is where I I was the kind of guy who never trusted a human being. When you operate on the streets, you I mean trust doesn't even get into the dialogue, never mind into the character.

It just doesn't get in. And and so I I had absolutely I had never met a human being that I believed offered something that didn't have a hook on it. Never did.

I didn't believe anybody did anything for nothing. And and and the first place the first place that I ever ever learned to trust another person was in that maximum custody penitentiary AA group. Amazing thing.

300 guys that were by their own definition almost unbelievable in terms of some of the things they had done. And I watched those same people perform acts of integrity and honesty and consideration that were almost unbelievable. So individually I started to see some of the power of the program and then collectively that that group did a magnificent job of helping new people understand that Alcoholics Anonymous recovery in Alcoholics Anonymous is not some mystical thing that happens to a fortunate few.

That's not what this is. This is not some bolt out of the blue. You know the guys in that joint and they were not Bill Wilson and Dr.

Bob. They were guys who had found something and they helped me to understand. They taught me that Alcoholics Anonymous is a design for living.

It's not some heavenly magic show. It's a design for living. And if I will take the actions as laid out in those 200 words of the 12 steps, something will happen to me that'll make me a dramatically different person.

And boy, is that ever true. And I will always be grateful for that. for a good strong solid group that stuck to the purpose like you were talking about that deals with the solution and uh and so that was the place that somehow they kept tanalyzing me back and I I've always been a reader.

I read everything we had. We didn't have too much back then. Bill wrote half of it, but we we had a we had a few things about 12 items alto together.

And uh I read the stuff and I'll tell you where the the a major turning point came for me. I I don't like to over glamorize anything about about recovery. Somebody asked me what's the most important step.

I say, you know, all 12, you know, that there I mean, it's a way of life. It's not individual hopscotch. It's a it's a it's a way of life.

And uh but a huge turning point for me was in that first period at eight or nine months I had a sort of an intellectual grasp. I had come to believe there was a power that I felt in the group. I I I had some sort of fleeting holds on things but I think I could have been knocked over very easily.

And then something happened that was a transforming thing in my in my life and in my recovery. Went to a meeting one day. Speaker spent the entire meeting on the fourth steps.

all he talked about. Read part of it, illustrated part of it. Went back to myself when it was over and I said, "Okay, I'm going to do that." And I I had read the stuff and what I meant to write was a little story about how such a nice guy as me got in such a mess is really what I meant to do, which isn't quite an inventory.

The founders were wise when they said to write the inventory. They were wise because I started to write. I wrote two lines of what I had in mind and then with absolutely no intent whatsoever.

All it was it was like I hit a wall and the delusion started to end. It started to end all at once. Nothing dramatic.

No, it was dramatic in hindsight, but I started to write, wrote two lines and all at once it just I guess I saw the charade. Not didn't think about it, just responded to it and in one motion stopped that foolishness and opened up and poured out my heart and wrote my first inventory. Now, it was a crude looking thing if you were going to look at it and compare it to the columns and all of the evaluations and what Brown did to Jones and all this stuff.

If if you measured it by that, it would look very crude. But don't underestimate you. Yeah.

You can't screw up an inventory if you do it to the best of your ability when you sit down there and put it on that paper. You can't screw it up. And what I did that day was open up and pour out my heart.

When I got through, I had three pages of scribble. Nobody could have read it. Nobody was supposed to.

I tell you what it was was the most important day's work this old boy has ever done in his entire life. Bar none. More important than the day I married, the day my son was born, my daughter, more important than when my career started or finished was the day that I did that thing because what happened then, talk about impacting the delusion.

When I got through with that inventory, I knew I knew at a cellular level that I was alcoholic. Not the young case, not the tragic case, not the whiz kid. I knew I was alcoholic.

Period. Period. I have never doubted that for one second to this day.

I'm absolutely convinced that what happens in Alcoholics Anonymous in recovery is critically attached to that. If I don't experience surrender at depth, then I'm not going to do the things full boore that follow. We grow out of this program is not about achievement or attainment or education or stuff like that.

It's about surrender and opening to something new. And that's what happened. Our book says it a lot better than I could where it says something like this.

I can't quote nothing and know no page numbers but somewhere in the third chapter it says something like this. We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholic. The first step in recovery that sounds simple doesn't it?

Had to concede to my innermost self. It doesn't matter what I say to you. I told you I was Tom Iver alcoholic.

I am. That's not what that step's talking about. What that talking about is conceding at depth.

I'm a guy who is whipped. I'm a guy who is beat. I'm a guy who has alcoholism.

I'm not a bad drunk. I'm not a street grifter. You I'm a guy who has alcoholism.

There's something constitutionally different about me than other drinkers that that are not alcoholic. I don't know. Don't care why.

I just know that that's a fact. And the great thing is when I accept that at the core of my being, fellow alcoholics, the fight's over, it's over. I haven't revisited that fight not one time since.

Now I've come close to drinking because I have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I haven't had a labbotomy. I still have that sucker.

And it is, as our book describes it, a mind that can turn at times irresistibly to the thought of a drink. Mine has, and thank God, the good news is that the program we celebrate tonight is more powerful than the illness. If it weren't, I wouldn't be here.

And so that was fundamental to me. Yeah. What other thing happened that that day finished that inventory?

became a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. I have never been just another link on that chain of human misery since I took a place in Alcoholics Anonymous. I've never been to a single meeting without knowing 100% why I'm there.

I'm not here to entertain. We have a good time. Good.

But I'm not here for that. I'm not here to teach. I'm here to share from the depth my experience in the hope it can mean something to somebody else.

But I never get carried away with what my purpose is nor under nor misunderstand my fundamental thing. I'm a man on a mission. I'm here because this is what makes a difference in my life.

Not only in survival, good God, I I can almost take that for granted. I I haven't had crisis for a long time now. Don't minimize that.

But what I found is that if I'm caught up in doing the active work of this program, I don't even get time to think about me very much. I'm too busy enjoying the stuff that happened. So that was a fundamental turning point for me.

And from then on it was just a matter you could talk for a week about the uh the the rest of the thing. I I really like the way it's summed up in that uh you hear it every once in a while now and I think it says it so well in that preface to the 12 and 12 where and it's like I said a while ago that that it that our steps are the steps of the program the way it says in there simple sounding stuff our steps are a set of principles spiritual in their nature tell them what steps are they're spiritual principles And then listen to what it says. Which if practiced as a way of life, not studied or worked or done or seminared or retreated, you know, all of those things can be helpful.

But listen to what it says. Which if practiced as a way of life can do two things. One, it will expel the obsession to drinking.

Now mine is expelled. I haven't had an obsession for a long time, but it ain't far away. I can revisit that sucker with his alcoholic mind in a heartbeat.

Because what I have is what? A daily reprieve continued on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. It's my fervent belief that the program of Alcoholics Anonymous, the recovery program, lasts as long as I do it and not another second.

And when I quit doing it, then I start to deteriorate. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, but I will deteriorate. And so that's what it gave me was a was a brand new life that it'll expel that obsession and then enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole.

God, is that ever true? Is that ever true? And I I got to start heading for the airport.

pretty quick. I'm going to quit here. I got to get you out of jail.

I've already got you out in the in a very real sense of the word that uh because that I tell you the power of this program. Everything that's embodied in what I was just talking about will enable the sufferer to become happily usefully whole happened to me in a maximum custody penitentiary. I became happily and usefully whole.

I became a free man for the first time in my entire life in a maximum custody penitentiary. I developed real genuine self-esteem and worth and value and purpose in a maximum custody penitentiary. I had a transforming change and and uh it was an amazing thing to me about what happens when this change becomes real.

I was recommended for special parole two years after I was in there. Didn't make it, but I was recommended and and I didn't realize what an honor that was. That happens once out of 10,000 cases.

And all I'm doing is practicing these principles as a way of life. Nothing outstanding. Or is it amazing stuff happened and uh I tell you probably the best way I could describe it the night before.

Now I I I tell you I hated prison. I absolutely hated it. As much as I've been around them, you wouldn't believe that.

But I absolutely hated prisons. And the the the day I walked in there, I had some people tell me that I would get used to it in time. Well, it takes a whole lot longer than I put in to get used cuz I was less used to it the day I walked out than I was the day I walked in.

Absolutely hated that thing with a purple passion. But the night that I was I knew I was leaving the next day, I didn't tell anybody this, but I found myself thinking, geez, I need one more day. I got I got a lot of AA stuff that I got to get wrapped up, you know, and if I just Well, now I didn't tell anybody cuz I wouldn't have put in another second.

I I know it's important work, but there are other members there. I said, maybe they'll handle it. And but but isn't that something that a maximum custody penitentiary that prison didn't change but you hear what I'm saying?

No, this is not circumstantial. You know, the freedom isn't harnessed by my limitations physical or whatever they may be. They the the the freedom that comes from this is a person freed.

And I've never been more free in my life. I've never been more richly blessed in my life than I was then. And so when I hit the street, it was just a matter of u of just keeping on doing what I was doing.

I all I did was change. Now I make it sound simple. It was a big deal.

But in a very real sense, it wasn't. I was a strong member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Went into my little old town and if if we were doing a workshop on groups, I'd tell you a whole lot about that.

But it when I I went into that group uh in in the little town I was in, AA was just hanging on by an eyelash. And um first meeting I went to was I tell you was the worst meeting I ever been to in my life. If if we'd have had a meeting that bad in the penitentiary, somebody had got hurt.

Ain't no way you're gonna put up with that. That but it was pitiful. And and uh so but I dug in and started to to to to be a part of that thing.

And and the thrill of seeing a group grow. Hey, when when I moved away from that town two years later, there were 60 members in that. And I didn't do that by myself, but I helped.

I guarantee you that. I 12 enough drunks to to to populate the army that and had a wonderful time. Uh had my license restored two months after I was out of the penitentiary.

Unbelievable thing to happen. Got immediately active in penitentiary work. The second week I was out.

Somebody asked me to go back over to the prison and carried a message and I just got out. Not the same one. And uh so I went and and set up what's gone on now for 40 almost 43 years in in that uh amazing amazing thing.

Uh two years I got to tell you this because folks will get on me if I don't. Two years after I was out I was sitting home one day minding my own business working in a mill on the third ship 10 at night 6:00 in the morning and was aaing like a young wild man. Man, I was aainga up a storm and uh I got a phone call from the state capital, a guy who identified himself.

I recognized the name. He had visited a group I sponsored one time and and uh and so I knew I acknowledged who he was and he said, "Mr. Iver, we uh are expanding the rehabilitation program in our prison system and we were wondering if you would consider accepting a position." And uh at first now there had never been an excon in history hiring anything like this.

And I mean it wasn't even a fantasy for folk. It was just something that didn't exist. And said he said I said do you know who you're talking to?

And he said oh yeah yeah we know. We probably know you better than you know yourself. I said to him from up here truly I never even considered it but I I said I'd rather do that than anything I could imagine.

And uh down deep, you know what I said? Ain't no way. I mean, that ain't going to happen.

But it did. And I went to work and and then and and put in a 39 year career in in correction. I retired two years ago.

And it was a phenomenal career. I I started out as a rehab officer and then started getting kicked up and up and into management. And then one day the head of our system asked me to stop by his office.

He he had a little assignment he wanted me to do. And normally that meant go make a speech for him somewhere. So I went by and he said, "Tom, I'd like for you to take over an institution as warden." And uh when I got up off the floor, I said, "Boss, I do man, I don't want to be the man.

I don't want to be a turnkey. I And uh I really didn't. I wanted to be the good guy.

I wanted to duke it out with the guys, you know, and mud wrestle and all that. That's that's what I like." And u and he told me what he had in mind. And I said, "Will you give me some time to think about it?" He said, "Oh, sure.

Take five minutes." Well, I could have thought five months and it probably wouldn't have been any different, but I when I took five minutes. Went out, prayed hard, and I knew that if I took that job, I was going to lose some of my first person kind of relationship, you know, because when you're a man, you you you can't just be buddy on the corner. You going to take it, you're going to have to take the whole deal.

And uh then I thought well maybe if I had some authority and some power that uh I might be able to do some things. And so I I uh agreed somewhat reluctantly and and uh was installed as warden of a pen really really glamorous installment. They he and two or three other guys drove me about 50 miles away to a prison.

Took me introduced me to staff said here's your new boss. And then we walked out and they drove off in the parking lot and left me standing there. And I said, "Wait, guys.

Wait, don't leave me down here with these heathens." And and uh anyway, that was my first deal. And that started a career, a part of my career that for about 20 years, that's what I did was was operate institutions. My uh my uh pattern was that I was the guy who developed new new programs.

I'm I'm a I'm an out of the box type of guy. I I'm somebody who status quo would make me brain dead in a week. You know, if I develop a program, the next day I'm working on step the next step.

I I'm never I'm just I think that way. And so I I was a guy that had many opportunities in during that phase of my career to do stuff. And it's a wonderful career.

I finished it up by setting up a first class drug and alcohol program. I've worked 10 years past my retirement because it was such an exciting opportunity to do something really worthwhile. And so I retired and if if you ever want to know how to retire, I'm your guy to talk with.

Uh I retired I think it was the 1 of December of of some year two years ago. And uh I had already been elected to be the AA correctional facilities chair for the state the minute I retired. So I went right the only thing I did is go outside the fence and start working full-time for nothing, you know, and and and I tell you I I wouldn't take a million bucks for that.

I wouldn't take anything for it. You know, I just tell you this, just think about this that, you know, I I see a lot of people, none whom I envy, who look at service needs and walk away. My belief is this.

You when I walked out of that system, I doubt that there was anybody in this country who had more keen awareness of the problems of alcoholics in prisons. nor was there anybody that had better access to that system. And I honestly believe had I been able to look at a need like that that I was capable of dealing with and walked away, there would have been a huge price tag on that.

And so that's kind of the way I approach it. I I And we've had a marvelous two years. I just finished up this week is my uh my term ran out and uh the the new chair is in place and for the next couple years I'll probably ride shotgun for him because we did some really we got some really good stuff going in in the state and and uh no way I'm going to just drop it on him and boogie.

I'm I'm going to stay right in there. Oh god, I'm never going to leave anyway. It's just a matter of what I'm going to be doing.

And so that's um that's a big part of it. That's that's my primary mission. But I'm a mainstream member of Alcohol Economics.

I'm concerned about everything in our fellowship that impacts a drunk. Uh I'm on an ad hoc committee right now restructuring our service committees in the state of North Carolina, all of our committees because we just didn't feel like they had enough connection to the primary purpose at the group level. So I I have the opportunity to participate in that and we'll wrap it up next month and have it enacted by May, I believe, to totally revamp the way we do that.

So I'm a mainstream member now. I'm a guy who has been enormously blessed with this thing. I'm I'm retired, but you'd never know it.

My wife says she's going to have to get me to go to work, so I'll slow down. And so she's given up. I I I lead a a relative well it's a very very busy life but it's a very simple life to I live in a little old town a lot of you guys know where I live this little old still Mayberry as a little rinky date place but it's a it's a great place and uh I'm a good citizen of that place the lo local paper just I they kept want they they feature a citizen once a month and Uh they counted me about that for a year.

I thought, who the devil wants to know this junk, you know? I mean, we understand, but why the average guy on the street? And then finally I gave in and they they took up about half the paper with the long article about that.

Toward the end of the article, the guy was talking about my educational stuff and he saw a lot of checkered spaces in there and he said, "That's interesting the pattern you had in your educational track, in your military track." He said,"I know you're interested in alcoholism. Do you ever have a problem with that yourself?" I said, 'Oh, yeah. That explains my career pattern.

And he said, "Well, I'd love to tell that story." That's be another another article. That's a different different deal. But it's a it's a it's a it's a marvelous marvelous guy.

That's why I say I'm the most rewarded guy in the United States of America. And I really believe that. I I I want to leave you with this thought that I'm I'm an enormously active member of alcoholics now.

I'm the busiest guy I know. But I am a fundamentally grounded sort of a guy. And when you're as busy in the program as this, and I know some of you are.

Reason I want to just mention this, I know some of you are. When you're really busy in the program, you can't help having conflict feelings about, you know, what price am I paying for this? you know, if you got a young family and all this kind of stuff, you know, if I'm really involved in aa, how can I how can I balance out my life so that I'm not robbing one to to to take care of the other?

And uh and it's really a a kind of an important distinction to work through. Uh I can tell you this that there's a real difference between frantic activity and committed action. a very important distinction in that activity is just sort of scrambling in all directions and I've done some of that.

But committed actions are things to which I'm solidly committed like a home group. That's a commitment. That's not under the heading of nice to do.

That's not negotiable. That is not up for grabs. My sponsorship is a commitment to my sponsor and to those I sponsor.

Those are commitments. some service things. If I take on a job, I take on it take it on to do the very best I can.

That's a commitment. And there's an important distinction. I I'll give you just one example to tell you what I'm talking about.

Why that's so important and what is it keeps you from getting into a lot of trouble with your family or employers or something like that. My son is is a nice young physician. He's finally started to make money.

Thank God that uh he came to came down to visit and we he said uh I want to take you guys out to dinner tonight since I'm now self-supporting. I said well that's great. We'll go somewhere really.

And and but he looked at me and he said oh wait a minute. This is meeting night isn't it? I said yeah it is.

Well and he said no sweat. We'll do it tomorrow night. Now, suppose I'd said, "No, I've decided I'm going to run over here to a meeting tonight." See what I'm talking about?

If I just put an activity as something that was more important than dinner with my son, that would have been a very bothersome thing to that fella. If I tell my wife that aa has to come before anything in my life, I better be ready for a fight because that's flat wrong. my recovery comes first not aa activity a very important distinction in that and so when when when I approach it that way if I'm working alcoholics the way I want to if I'm practicing these principles this program will not compete with anything else in my life if it's competing with something else in my life I'm not doing it right if it doesn't make me a better employee a better employee employer, a better husband, a better father, a better citizen.

I need to take a check and see where I'm screwing up on principles because I don't have to worry about sorting out and finding balance. If I just practice the principles, it'll help me to discipline my time and my commitments so that I can take care of business. And here almost 46 years later, I can tell you this.

I've been busy for a long, long time. And there is absolutely nothing in my life that I know of that has been negatively impacted in any way whatsoever. The most rewarded man in the United States of America.

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