Sober 17 Years—Then Finally Recovered: AA Speaker – Tom P. – Mesquite, TX
AA speaker Tom P. from Texas shares how 17 years sober without real step work led to relapse—and how actually studying the Big Book and taking the steps quickly brought genuine recovery.
Tom P. from Mesquite, Texas stayed sober for 17 years in AA but never actually understood Step One or worked the steps as written in the Big Book. In this AA speaker tape, he explains why meeting attendance and thinking through the drink kept him dry but not truly sober—and how a sponsor who walked him through the actual text in less than two weeks changed everything.
This AA speaker tape covers Tom P.’s discovery that 17 years of sobriety without working the steps left him spiritually empty and eventually led to relapse. He explains the doctor’s opinion and the allergy concept from the Big Book, showing why “just don’t drink” advice fails for real alcoholics who lack the power of choice. Tom shares how taking the steps quickly with a sponsor who studied the text directly gave him the spiritual experience he’d been missing, and argues that AA’s emphasis on meetings over step work contradicts the original program’s 75% success rate.
Episode Summary
Tom P. tells a story that will hit hard for anyone who’s been in AA: he got sober in 1985, never drank again for 17 years, went to meetings regularly, but in 2004 he relapsed. Why? Because he never actually worked the steps or understood what it meant to be powerless over alcohol.
When he arrived at his first treatment center as a teenager, psychiatrists tried to solve his drinking by having him work through his past—his parents’ divorce, his mother’s alcoholism, school failures. That didn’t work. Decades later, when he finally got to AA after his last treatment stint, he felt good immediately. The obsession was gone. He was back around people. He assumed the problem was solved.
But there’s a problem with that assumption, and Tom lays it out directly. He had no idea what Step One actually meant. When his sponsor told him he’d already taken Step One just by showing up, Tom believed it. He was told to go to 90 meetings in 90 days, think through the drink, and let the meetings do the work. For years, this worked—just barely. But he wasn’t sober. He was dry. And he was getting worse.
Tom describes sitting in meetings after 15 years, telling the group he was dying in AA. He knew he was headed for a drink. The advice he got? Go to more meetings. He couldn’t take it anymore. The meetings had become what he calls “open depression meetings”—people talking about their cats dying, their divorces, their problems. He was sick of it, but terrified to leave because he thought the meetings were keeping him sober.
The real turn comes when Tom finally meets someone who actually knows the Big Book and explains what it says. The doctor’s opinion. The allergy. The craving. Tom learns that chronic alcoholics have an abnormal reaction to alcohol—when normal people drink, they feel tipsy and stop. When real alcoholics drink, they crave more. It’s not a moral failing. It’s physical. But there’s more: even if he could stay sober by willpower alone, he can’t. The book says plainly that alcoholics have lost the power of choice in drink. Willpower becomes practically non-existent. He cannot bring to mind with sufficient force the memory of suffering. He is without defense against the first drink.
This is the paragraph Tom says saved his life. Because if willpower and memory don’t work—if thinking through the drink can’t keep him sober—then he needs something else. He needs a spiritual experience. He needs the actual steps, taken quickly, with someone who understands them.
Tom’s sponsor sat him down, walked him through the first 43 pages, and didn’t candy-coat it. Are you a real alcoholic? Yes. Are you willing to do whatever it takes? Yes. Then we’re doing these steps. Not in a year. Not in six months. In less than two weeks.
Tom goes through what he actually did. His Fourth Step took an hour and a half using a simple resentment guide—not a 50-page autobiography. His Fifth Step took a couple hours. The steps are designed to be doable, he says, because the original members knew their solution was urgent. Dr. Bob was taking people through the steps in a couple days. Bill Wilson took about a week. These weren’t slow processes.
He talks about how early AA had a 75% success rate. Today, based on chip sales in Dallas, there’s about a 5% chance of making it a year. What changed? The steps changed. Or rather, people stopped taking them. Instead of working the steps and carrying the message, AA became meetings first—meetings all day long, meetings for every problem, meetings as the solution itself.
Tom doesn’t hold back about what this has cost. He spent 17 years sponsoring people the way he was sponsored: tell them to go to 90 in 90, hope they stick around, don’t actually teach them anything because you don’t know how. Most didn’t make it. He says he was killing alcoholics by not giving them the steps.
The spiritual experience Tom describes isn’t mystical or flowery. It’s the result of identifying what blocks him from God—his selfishness, his dishonesty, his character defects—and asking God to remove it. When he did that work, things that haunted him before no longer do. His childhood issues, his trauma, his resentments—they’re not healed by therapy. They’re lifted by the steps and by helping other alcoholics.
Today, Tom sponsors people and takes them through the steps the way his sponsor took him through. He watches them go from wrecks to people with life in their eyes in a couple weeks. They go from having no solution to carrying a message. That’s the whole point. That’s the coolest thing, he says.
His message is blunt: AA as currently practiced in most groups contradicts what the Big Book actually says. We tell people the meetings are the solution. The book says the solution is working the steps and carrying the message. We tell people to take their time with the steps. The book and the early members knew time was the enemy—that we had to get people to the solution fast or they’d drink and die. We load people up with step work that isn’t in the book and overwhelm them so they quit before they start.
Tom knows this talk will lose people. He says so. He doesn’t care. He cares about the newcomers who come in looking for a solution and don’t find it.
Notable Quotes
I had no idea what step one meant for 17 years in Alcoholics Anonymous. I stayed sober 17 years and had a relapse back in ’04.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent. We are without defense against the first drink.
Thinking through the drink doesn’t work. I could remember all the crazy stuff that happened to me when I was drinking. It couldn’t keep me sober. My own war story couldn’t keep me sober.
If I didn’t know what it meant to be an alcoholic the whole time I was here, my flimsy definition of step one is what I’m betting my life on to keep me sober. And I’m betting my life on meeting attendance and thinking through the drink.
These steps were designed to be able to work them in a couple of days. When they started writing the steps and taking the steps, they didn’t mean for us to take a year doing this stuff.
Sponsoring people is the coolest thing in the world to watch some guy go from being a miserable wreck and a couple weeks later he’s got life in his eyes and he’s prepared to sponsor other people.
Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
Step 5 – Admission
Big Book Study
Sponsorship
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 1 – Powerlessness
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Step 5 – Admission
- Big Book Study
- Sponsorship
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. We hope to always remain an ad-free podcast, so if you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-onrise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Everybody, my name is Tom Pic.
I am a recovering alcoholic. >> How you guys doing? It's kind of in my face here.
Um, I've been sober since June 13th of uh ' 05. been so over a little bit over a year. And I I'll talk a little bit about about my war story or I won't even go into a war story, but talking about that stuff, it is just it bores me to death when I talk about what happened before I got to AA cuz it's it's really it's no different than anybody else's story.
I don't have any cool stories to tell. I was never a big drug dealer. Uh, I've never been to jail, never had a DWI.
Uh, there's there's a lot of stuff that that that never happened, but there's there's some stuff that did happen that that makes me imminently qualified to be in this program. I I started drinking when I was I was real young. I was drinking on a daily basis by the time I was 12 years old.
And um it it got so crazy and so out of control that by the time I was almost 15 years old, I I got sent to my first psychiatric hospital and I I was there for 16 months. I got out, returned to the drinking. 11 months later, I'm spending 20 months in another psychiatric hospital.
So from, you know, from almost 15 to to 18, I'm in hospitals as a result of my drinking. Now, what what they're trying to treat is is, you know, depression and bad teenage behavior, what whatever the hell I had, that's that's the angle that they're they're approaching me from. And they're they're trying they're they're telling me if if I just you know talk about all this stuff that happened in my past and resolve all these issues you know my parents divorce and you know failing in school and my mother's alcoholism and all this stuff that that somehow it'll get resolved and and I won't drink anymore.
I'm thinking yeah okay we'll we'll give this a try but you know I don't want to stop drinking. So, long story short, you know, I I I get out of this last one. Um I'm almost 19 years old.
Uh it happened to be down in Austin, Texas. And instead of moving back to Chicago, where I grew up, I stayed in Austin, which was pretty much um you know, the scene of the crime for me. Um things just got I mean, I I had some catching up to do when I got out of that place.
and and and if I didn't get caught up, it wasn't my fault cuz I I tried and and things just got unbelievably nuts. You guys know how it is. Um you know, writing bad checks, losing relationships, losing jobs, losing money, um emergency room visits, you know, the whole nine yards.
Um all that stuff that that happened to you guys happened to me, too. And I ended up in this treatment center up in Chicago cuz I I couldn't get sober in Austin. And I called my dad and he flew me up there and I went to this place and I spent um I don't know 27 28 days in this uh this hospital up there.
And after a couple weeks um you I'm pretty much detoxed and I'm feeling better and I'm you know I've got some strength. My head's starting to clear up a little bit. Um I've gained some weight which at that time I needed.
Um and and by the you know after a couple weeks you know we're having a great time in this place. There's a big place about 100 patients and we we'd play poker every night down in the basement. It wasn't a it wasn't a basement basement but it was a finished out bottom floor of the hospital and we'd go down there and play cards and and just have a great time.
And when I left there, I went back to Austin, went back to, you know, my little apartment and my little job down there and started going to meetings. And um I love the meetings. You know, I I got there and I'm feeling pretty good, full of piss and vinegar, real excited about life.
And and you guys pretty much tell me the same stuff that I've told a lot of people. You know, go to 90 meetings in 90 days, think through the drink, put the plug in the jug. all this stuff that we tell each other.
Um, that's that's what I heard. And so, you know, here I am. I'm I'm I'm relying on meeting attendance and thinking through the drink to stay sober, which, um, which I'll explain later, pretty much.
Um, it works up until it doesn't work anymore. It works perfectly until it stops working. I had no idea what step one meant for 17 years in Alcoholics Anonymous.
I I I stayed sober 17 years and had a relapse uh back in ' 04. Um so my understanding of of step one is I've got a drinking problem and when I drink bad stuff happens. Well, I just got out of this treatment center.
I hadn't drank in a month and guess what? The bad stuff stopped happening. It was gone.
I'm thinking, "Oh, this is great. Problem solved. I'm not drinking.
None of this crazy stuff's happening. Things are great." And I like the meetings. I I like going in and hearing about everybody's problems and and all the stuff that they're talking about.
It's it at first it was kind of interesting cuz you you never know what you're going to hear in one of these, you know, discussion meetings that I was going to or I like to call them open depression meetings cuz that's um you know that's pretty much what what I was jam full of. And but after a while I got tired of this stuff. I got tired of listening to people talking about their cats dying and their divorce and Sally Sue's pool boy putting too much chlorine in the pool and I mean you you name it.
Um I'm I'm dying. I'm I just I can't take this stuff anymore. And so I'm you know I'm staying sober.
I'm I'm making a a halfass attempt at the steps. Um, I was told that I that I had taken step one before I even came in, which wasn't true. Um, I was told that, you know, to stay on step two until I believe in God.
Never happened. Um, I I had the obsession to to drink and do some other stuff for 15 months in Alcoholics Anonymous. Um, it it never went away.
And I I prayed about it. I would leave the meetings thinking that I'm just I'm different than these people because I'm not getting it. You know, I'm still thinking about drinking and these people are happy.
Like, you know, what what the hell? What's you know, what's the matter with me? I thought I thought that that I was really screwed up and you guys were just kind of, you know, disco drunks who had a, you know, had a few scrapes with drinking, but, you know, once you quit, everything's cool.
I'm I'm staying sober and and I'm getting worse. I'm going to talk about some stuff here. And I know this is this is tough talk.
It's tough to hear. when when I was sitting in AA for 17 years trying to, you know, make it from meeting to meeting, man, this stuff would have just made me nuts listening to this stuff. But but what I learned after I got sober and hooked up with some guys that um that you know really felt this big book and took me through the steps who exactly as they're outlined in the book um I learned that that there's you know there there's hard drinkers and the book talks about on page 20 21 and and there's real alcoholics and I didn't understand what it meant to be an alcoholic the whole the whole time I was here you You know, my my flimsy definition of step one is what I'm I'm betting my life on to keep me sober.
And I'm betting my life on meeting attendance and thinking through the drink. And I've got no clue what it means to be powerless over alcohol. I just kind of You guys told me I was.
I said, "Okay, I am." And that was it. And and what I learned was that, you know, when when we say that we're powerless over alcohol, that our lives become unmanageable means something way different than what I ever thought. See, I I owned a big book.
I was I had a $10,000 one. That's what treatment centers cost back in '87. And um and I own I I had a couple.
I I picked up another one somewhere along the way. It was in my house. This information's been in my house for for 20 years almost.
And and I never bothered to pick it up. I mean, I read it once. Kind of interesting.
I had no clue what I was reading and nobody ever sat me down and explained to me exactly what we're talking about. Let me um let me just kind of show you what I learned um in this last year or so in in a doctor's opinion and you guys know who Dr. silk with whether he was Bill Wilson psychiatrist or alcohol doctor back then the only thing that they could do for people like us was to sober us up try to make it comfortable and then send us on our way and and hope for the best that's all they had going um and and Dr.
Silkworth started seeing these chronic alcoholics coming back and coming back and it was just an absolute revolving door. These guys weren't making it and so he he formed an opinion which was has later been proven to be medically true, scientifically true. He says that we believe and so suggested a few years ago that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy.
All an allergy is is an abnormal reaction. Is anybody here allergic to penicellin? What happens when you take penicellin?
Break out. >> You break out. If you come to my house and I got penicellin in my medicine cabinet, do I got to lock it up around you?
Most people don't react like like he does to penicellin. He reacts differently than most people. It's an abnormal reaction to penicellin.
Um, it's the same thing with alcohol. Chronic alcoholics, real alcoholics, the way we respond to alcohol when we put it in our bodies is we crave more alcohol. Says the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker.
Normal people do not experience this craving for alcohol. What do they do when they put alcohol in their bodies? one drink, maybe two drinks, and then they start to say crazy stuff like, "I'm starting to feel this.
I feel tipsy. I think I'll stop now." And and we're just we're just baffled. I mean, I I I cannot relate to I don't even know what tipsy is.
Tipsy was for me, tipsy was like a 10-second period that I passed right through and, you know, on my way to to something bigger and better than than Tipsy. But that's what these that's what happens to these people when they drink. Alcohol is a poison.
They they they feel sick. They they they stop drinking because it doesn't feel good. For us, our bodies react differently.
We crave more alcohol. Which explains why I can't decide, okay, I'm going to go out and I'm just going to have 10 drinks. You know, I'm going to have 10 drinks and I'm going to stop at number 10.
It never worked for me, even when I was young. this it it never worked for me. I could never control the amount that I took because of that craving.
Once I've got alcohol in my body, I'm craving more of it. And and I just I can't stop. In fact, I mean, if if I didn't pass out or fall asleep or get arrested or something interrupt that that process, I' I'd drink myself to death.
If I could stay awake long enough, I I would drink myself to death because of that craving. says, "These allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all. Nyquil, Listerine, Sterno, you name it.
Rubbing alcohol. Our bodies don't know what's on the label. Our bodies react to the alcohol.
That's it. And once having formed the habit, you got to take that." >> No. Right.
>> Um once lost having lost their self-confidence that their reliance upon things human their problems pile up in them become astonishingly difficult to solve. I had problems pile up on me that were that were astonishingly difficult to solve. And these were these were small problems.
It's like you know I've got I I need to fill up my gas tank. I need to I need to find a way to to scrape together, you know, a buck and a half for a pack of cigarettes, which I'm I'm kind of dating myself. I quit smoking 15 years ago.
I know they're like what, $9 a pack now? $80, something like that. Anyway, that's the first part of of step one.
The we are powerless over how much we drink. We have no power over controlling our our drinking. The other part which um which really kind of shocked me when when I learned this stuff and when I really thought about it is that um you know if if it were just a physical problem, if it were just a physical allergy, the the answer would be what I was doing.
Just don't drink. If you don't drink, you cannot crave alcohol. It can't happen.
The craving that we experience is a physical craving. No booze, no craving. It's that simple.
The problem is how do I keep from that first drink? I could never do that. I could never decide I'm done drinking and then and stick to it.
Um what they're what they're telling us here in this book, if you guys have a book, no one does. I'll read it to you. Um There's some metallic writing on on page 24 of the big book.
And if you guys don't have this underlined in your books, go home and and look at this. Says, "The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent." says, "We are unable at certain times to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago.
We are without defense against the first drink." My experience is this is the most important paragraph in this whole book right here. This is the this is the paragraph that that saved my life this time around. the people that I that I made friends with and that I was going to meetings with and that sponsored me, man, these people all loved me.
I'm I'm positive that I love them. They're the greatest people in the world. I'm still I'm friends to them with them to this day.
Um they they met well with the help that they offered me. They thought that they were doing the right thing, but the truth is when when they were telling me to go to a bunch of meetings and to think through the drink, I was getting some pretty bad advice. And when I was telling new people to do the exact same thing cuz I was told to just do what what was done to me and and teach people what I've been taught, I was killing alcoholics.
The truth is right here in this paragraph is that, you know, thinking through the drink doesn't work. I can remember all the crazy stuff that happened to me when I was drinking. It couldn't keep me sober.
My own war story couldn't keep me sober. I I could remember the stuff, but I couldn't remember it was sufficient force to keep me sober. When I learned this last year, scared the crap out of me cuz I I thought that that if I just, you know, if I just get clear of the booze, get detoxed, get a, you know, get a a few weeks distance between me and the last drink, then I'd be able to think through the drink and and remember how bad the relapse was and stay sober.
this book, this paragraph totally contradicts what we've been telling people in Alcoholics Anonymous for years. Um, the truth is the group I was going to, we didn't talk about the big book. We had, you know, three, four meetings a day, pretty much discussion meetings.
We had a a big book study on Sunday nights. Our big book study consisted of reading a paragraph out of the big book, closing the big book, and talking about whatever you wanted to talk about. You were asked to stick to the topic.
But if you don't, that's okay cuz you can talk about whatever's bothering you, too. It doesn't matter as long as you participate. That's what our big book study was in my group.
Our primary purpose wasn't necessarily carrying our message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Basically, we didn't have a message. Our message was go to meetings.
If you have a problem, bring it here. We'll help you solve it. And and our primary purpose was pretty much trying to find enough chairman for all the damn meetings we were holding.
We're sending a message by having all these meetings that the meetings are important and and that you need them to stay sober and we we're going to have them all day long so that whenever you need to stay sober, there's going to be a meeting for you. I've studied I've been studying this book for a little over a year and there's there's nothing in this book about AA meetings. back in the day.
Um, what they were doing was they were they were working the steps and they were carrying the message to the alcoholics. They weren't they didn't have a meetings to start with. And when they did have them, people had worked the steps before they got to come to the meetings.
And so they were spending their time looking for people to work with instead of hanging out in AA clubs playing dominoes waiting for a new person to show up. Um, that's just what was going on back then. That's when they had a, you know, 75% success rate.
Today, you know, in Dallas, Texas, based on our chip sales, you know, the desire chips 1 month, 2 month, 3 month, and all that. Based on on those numbers, you got about a 5% chance making it a year. We tell people to go to 90 meetings in 90 days.
You got a 15% chance of making it in 90 days. What can anybody tell me what happens on day 90, you know, or day 91? What what what's supposed to happen then?
Is it just that we're we're used to AA or or we feel comfortable? Um back in in the beginning, what these guys were doing is they were taking people through the steps quickly, one day, two days. Dr.
Bob was taking people through the steps in a couple of days. His second day sober, he's out looking for drunks to work with. Bill Wilson, would it take him 7 days, 9 days, something like that?
All these guys, you know, 2 weeks tops, maybe 30 days tops, and then they had their spirits experience, their their entire psychic change, and they're out carrying the message. It was the coolest thing. What are we doing today?
I know what I did when when new people came up to me. You know, I used to stand in the meetings at the end of the meetings with, you know, 14, 15 years sober and and there'd be a new guy in the room cuz we had asked at the beginning of the meeting if there was a new guy. Then he puts his hand up and then we tell our war stories for an hour thinking that we're going to scare him into staying sober.
Um, and then after the meeting, I'm standing there, I'm thinking, God, please don't let this guy come up and ask me to be a sponsor. cuz we'd all gone around the room and given our sobriety dates. I happened to have a lot of time at that time and and I was an easy target.
Please don't let him ask me to be a sponsor cuz I don't know what to do with him. But then there's that other voice inside me that says, "Well, never say no in AA. If someone asks you to do something, you do it." So these people come up to me and ask me to be the sponsor.
What would I tell them? Well, I'd tell them what was told to me. Sit tight.
go to 90 and 90 and we'll take our time with this thing. There's no rush. It's it's not a race.
It's a marathon. Blah blah blah blah blah. And and the truth is is I didn't know what to do with the guy.
I didn't know how to take these steps out of the book. And and I was just hoping that that he'd make it and he'd stay sober for that 90 days and forget about wanting to do the steps. So that way I wouldn't have to admit that that I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
And and most of the time the guys didn't make it. And um you know, shame on me for that. But that's that's what I was doing.
That's what what was done with me. And um the truth is is that I didn't know what was in this book. I had no clue.
No one ever sat me down in the beginning and and explained to me exactly what my truth is. My my truth is is that I've got a a mind that can't keep me from the first drink and I've got a body that can't keep me from the second drink. There's you guys hear any hope in that?
There there's no hope. If if I had learned that from the beginning, I would have had a reason to take these steps. But when I got out of that treatment center and I'm feeling good, there's no reason to take these steps.
Why? Why mess things up? Why?
Why inflict, you know, any torture on myself, talking about my passion, stirring up my issues and all this stuff? Why even bother doing that? There's a guy named um named Paul who I think he's from Arizona and he wrote this thing.
And if you guys want a copy, I'll be glad to email it to you with me after the meeting. I'm not going to read the whole thing. It's kind of long, but it's called reflections of step one.
And and what he's writing about is is basically his experience with step one. Says, "My experience and attitude with steps 2 through 12 is simply a reflection of what I experienced in step one. If I am honest with myself in step one, I cannot escape the truth.
I cannot escape the reality that there is nothing I can do to keep myself sober. I will see that I am guaranteed not to drink again. There is no hope in step one.
I will digest the truth that I do not have the power to choose whether I will or will not drink. Relying on my memory of suffering to keep me sober is no longer an option. My better judgment and greater intellect will not produce a mental defense against the first drink.
as a result of experience the first step rather than it being an intellectual exercise which is what it was for me when I was told that I'd already taken step one before I came in um I'm in touch with my powerlessness at a gut level this tends to produce discomfort this discomfort is a gift this very gift promotes a desire to seek power which I do not possess this discomfort is not to be confused with fear being the motivation to stay sober. That's what I used to stay sober. I was scared of all that stuff that was going I thought would happen again.
So, I'm relying on fear, meeting attendance, the the suffering of that I experienced at the end of my drinking. To rely on fear to stay sober is dangerous for the day will come when the fear will disappear and then there will be no reason for me to stay sober. That's some pretty tough stuff there.
I had 17 years. And I remember sitting in a I had about 15 years. And I'm sitting in a meeting.
It was a men's meeting. It was a discussion meeting Saturday morning. Me and all my buds.
There's about 40 of us. A bunch of us would always go out to breakfast afterwards. Great fellowship, great guys.
Love them all. And and we're sitting in the meeting. The chairman starts with a topic.
I don't remember what it was. Maybe gratitude or you know what she did over the weekend. I don't know.
And and he starts calling on people and and the topic kind of changes every time someone else talks cuz they're they're talking about themselves. And and it gets around to me. I'm like maybe the fifth or sixth guy and and they're calling me and I'm thinking I I don't have anything to say.
I hadn't been practicing in my mind what I was going to say in case I got called on. So I'm I'm unprepared. I got to say something.
And so I introduce myself. Tom, alcoholic. Hi Tom.
We go through all that stuff. And then I tell him, I said, "Look, you know, I don't want to scare any newcomers, but I got to tell you guys the truth. I am dying in Alcoholics Anonymous.
I'm going to drink again. It's not going to be today, probably not next week, probably not even this month, maybe not even this year, but I am headed in that direction. And and I don't know what to do." And the rest of the meeting, they kind of share it at me.
you know, we don't we don't cross talk, but we can sure share it people. You know, we can reference what they're saying and and and make it sound like we're not cross talking. Anybody am I the only one that's ever done that?
Um, so so that's what these guys are doing and and they love me and they come up to me after the meeting and they're like giving me hugs and tell me that, you know, man, I'm glad you shared that and you know what you need. I said what? Here it comes.
you need to go to more meetings. I'm thinking I'm screwed. I'm absolutely screwed.
I My meeting attendance for that whole 17 years was high. I never had a period that I I wasn't going to meetings. Never happened.
I was afraid that if I quit going, I'd drink again. So, I'm going no matter what. No matter how much crap I have to listen to in our meetings, I'm there cuz I don't want to drink.
And and these guys are telling me I need to double up. And I'm like, if if that's the answer, I can't do it. I can't I can't double up anymore.
I can't take this stuff anymore. I can't I just I can't stand it. The the truth is is is when when when we're in meetings, let let me just I might I might lose a few people here.
I notice I've already lost half the room and and this and that's okay. Um we don't have a right to say whatever we want in an alcoholic anonymous meeting. We we don't have that right.
Our our primary purpose is to carry the group's message to the alcoholic who still suffers. And and if I'm going to use up precious meeting time, precious time to help that new person talking about me, I'm being a selfish sob. And and if you guys are permitting me to do that, no one's cutting me off, you need to take a closer look at the traditions and think about why we're really here.
Alcoholics Anonymous is for sobering up drunks. That's it. That is what we're here for.
we can't handle. We're not equipped to deal with with our everyday problems. That stuff gets taken care of on page 84 in step 10.
I've tried it. It works beautifully. Um that that's not why we're here.
You know, over on um and I know you guys have heard this part a million times. says selfishness, self-centerness, that we think is the root of our troubles. Driven by 100 forms of fear, self-d delusion, self-seeking, self-pity, that's what I'm doing when I'm dumping my crap in a meeting.
Self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows, blah blah blah. So, our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They rise out ourselves.
And the alcohol is an extreme example of self-willrun riot. says, "Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of the selfishness." Why? We must or it kills us.
If we don't get rid of the selfishness in in step four, five, six, and seven, we identify it in four, we talk about it in five, we get ready to ask God to remove it in six, and we pull the trigger in step seven, we die. So what are we doing when when we permit someone to come into our meeting and and take up time from the newcomer who comes here looking for the solution and engage in selfishness and and self-centered behavior by talking about themselves? Are we kind of permitting them to to do something that can kill them?
Think about it. I did it. I I I sat there for years, never said a word to anybody.
Never said, "Hey, man, you know, quit being a bogart with this meeting, you know, take the steps, do something about this stuff." You're wrapped up in yourself. All you think about is is yourself in this meeting. And and and you think that we're here to fix your problems.
I'm an alcoholic. I'm I don't know how to fix these problems. The book's real clear on this stuff.
If if we do the work, God will solve our problems. I've got I've got all sorts of reasons to go to therapy based on, you know, traditional reasons, you know, childhood issues, all this other stuff. That stuff does not haunt me anymore.
You know, if you look in the promises and the ninth step, and there's promises all over the book. Um, I've what what I've experienced as a result of working the steps is I don't regret the past. I don't sit here in meetings proeververating on all this crap that happened to me when I was a kid and I don't wish to shut the door on it.
That's that's been my experience. When when I do the steps and I do this work and I'm carrying the message to other alcoholics, that stuff in my past that I need therapy for, it's not bothering me. It It's not holding me back from anything.
What What happens is is I've I've taken these steps and I've tapped into a power greater than me that not only, you know, doesn't let that stuff pull me back, but it pulls me forward. It it motivates me to go out and carry this message. Um, the 17 years I was sober, I spoke one time in an AA group.
That's it. One time. I was asked a million times.
And I always had some excuse for not doing it cuz I was I was scared that I would have to come up here and try to remember my war stories, which I couldn't remember cuz I've got the memory of a crack baby, or try to make you guys laugh for an hour. and I didn't think I could pull it off. One time I'm in New Orleans, my wife and I went there to hang out and um this friend of mine, Danny from Austin, knew this guy named Michael from New Orleans.
He says, "Give Michael a call and go to a meeting with him." I was like, "Okay." Gave Michael a call. And um Michael shows up with a bunch of his buddies, takes me to a meeting. I'm the only white guy in this meeting.
And these people wrote me in. It was it was also my seventh day birthday. And and they pulled me in and I was just like, I was like, you know, they they were they were glad I was there, man.
I mean, they they all came up to me and wanted to know how things were in the program in Austin and and and we're just, you know, they're just the coolest people in the world. And then they find out it's my birthday and they ask me to speak and and I'm I'm I'm coming up. When when you're at the meeting and they're asking you to speak, you can't tell them that you got something else you got to do.
You know, it doesn't work. I I I rode there in their car. So, I'm screwed.
and and somehow I I made it through that meeting. Um, they all clapped at the end. I don't know what I said, but I I do know this.
Whatever I said was just a bunch of bunch of horse crap. I was I was regurgitating stuff that I'd been picking up in the meeting, stuff that I'd read off the bumper stickers that I'd read off the wall, you know, all this stuff trying to just trying to kill an hour in front of a bunch of people I don't know. and and it was the scariest experience of my life.
What's different today? Um I got lucky enough to to find a sponsor and to find a group that studies this book and lives and dies by this book. and my sponsor sat down with me, took me through the doctor's opinion, the first 43 pages, and explained to me exactly what my problem was, that I've got a physical craving when it comes to alcohol, and that I've got a mind that no matter what the reason, it doesn't matter if if I'm going to die if I take a drink, there's no reason strong enough to keep me sober.
And that is the absolute truth. and and unless I experience an entire psychic change like it talks about in the doctor's opinion, I'm screwed. And he didn't candy coat it.
He didn't say anything about, "Well, since you showed up here, you must be an alcoholic. Nothing happens by mistake." All that other stuff we tell people. He hit me right in the middle of the forehead with this stuff.
And he asked me, says, "Are are you a real alcoholic?" I said, "Yes." And he said, "Are you willing to do whatever it takes?" I said, "Yes." We started on with these steps and within it was less than 2 weeks, I have the steps done. I've told people to take their time with the steps. Other people told me that.
I hear it all the time in AA meetings. Take your time with the steps. wait a year till you have step till you do step four because you can't handle what you're going to write down.
You can't deal with it. You got to let your head clear. You got to Here's the truth.
You got to if if you're a real alcoholic, your brain can't keep you from the first drink and your body can't keep you from the second drink. Working with others and and tapping into a power grid in yourself is your solution. you got a week or a month that you can rely on your own defenses, buddy.
We got to get you to your solution quick or or you're going to die. That's just that's just the truth of it. So, when when we're telling people take your time with these steps, wait a year before you can sponsor anybody or 2 years.
That's crazy. Our solution is working with drugs. In fact, the book tells us nothing ensures immunity from drinking as much as intensive work with the drunk.
That means taking them through the steps. That's our solution. Why would we keep people from the solution?
You know what what's the deal there? Cuz we we spend our time talking about our problems. That's that's that's what we're doing in our meetings.
That's what we did in our meetings. I don't know about you guys, but but in our group, that's all we did. Once in a while, someone would say something out of the big book.
It was usually page 449. Acceptance is the answer to all my problems. How did these guys stay sober before they had a page 449?
Acceptance is kind of a result of of working the steps. But I don't have an acceptance switch. I don't have an acceptance button.
When I get jammed up, there's nowhere I can go. Flip the switch and all of a sudden acceptance occurs. I've been listening to this stuff for years and I'm I'm trying to I'm just thinking, well, I'm just screwed cuz I I can't accept things.
When in fact, on on page 84, it tells me exactly what to do when I get sideways with the world. When I feel, you know, resentful or selfish or dishonest, frightened, whatever, it gives me exact instructions. Um, so that's that's what that's what I experienced this last year with with the steps in Alcoholics Anonymous.
I um did anybody was anybody here ever told that, you know, for step four, you got to write this 40 50page autobiography, get everything out on paper, um, and all that good stuff. I I'm thinking, you know, when I was maybe 23, 24, 25, I'm thinking I probably got to do this for a step right now. Probably ought to get out of the way cuz I've only got 25 years of stuff to write down.
And if I wait till I'm 30 or 40, I'm going to have 30 or 40 years worth of stuff to write down. So, just, you know, for the sake of keeping it short, I'll do it now. And and I did it.
And I I wrote down all sorts of stuff. just I don't know what I wrote, but I I did this fifth step and um and it was it was really more like confessional. The the guy I was doing it with um didn't understand that that the whole purpose of this exercise is to identify the things that are blocking me from that power that's going to save my life.
In fact, the whole purpose of the steps the steps are designed to remove all the things that block us from God. the the selfishness, the dishonesty, all of our character defects. We're we're not we're not doing these steps so that so that Tom can turn into a good boy.
That that's not what this stuff's about or or make, you know, make up with everybody and and everybody can be happy. The whole purpose of the of these steps are to remove all those things that are blocking me from God for my solution. And and step four is no different.
Um, you know, if if confessional were the solution, man, go down to the church, grab you a priest, dump your stuff, and you're done. You never have to drink again. Problem is is that's that's not what works for us.
What works for us is identifying what it is that that blocks us from God and asking him to remove it. That's it. So, so step four, um, we we we kill a lot of folks with them.
We cuz we we overwhelm them with with the steps. They're they're they think that they can't do this stuff and so they don't do it. Who who the hell wants to fail at anything?
It's a lot easier to not do it and not fail than it is to do it and fail. And you know what we're doing with folks is we're pretty much telling them this stuff is really really really really hard and takes a long long long long time and um good luck. And they just kind of sit in their meetings and do their thing until they drink again and then they die.
Um step four when I took it, we used this uh this step four guide. Uh it's in here somewhere. It looks like this.
This is um the Joe and Charlie fourstep guide. If any of you guys are familiar with those guys, um this is their their guide. This is the resentment page.
All you do is write down who you're resentful at, what they did, why you pissed off, and then this part right here talks about the parts of self that were affected. Remember, self is something we got to get rid of or it kills us. So, we got to see what it is about self that is um is getting jammed up here.
And then column four, we uh we look at the exact nature of our wrongs. When uh when my sponsor took me through this and when I take people through it, I tell them do this column, do this column, give this column a shot. If you can't do it perfectly, fine.
If you can't figure out which box to check, forget about it. I'll do it with you. And then save column four for me because when we're doing step five, I can see this stuff better than you can.
And we'll do column 4 together and we'll point this stuff out to you. It takes It took me, I'll be honest, I was uh playing on the internet and watching TV. It took me an hour and a half to do my four step.
Most people it takes an hour to an hour and a half. Does that sound better than um a 50-page autobiography? Yeah, this stuff is doable.
These these steps were were designed to be able to to work them in a in a couple of days. These guys when when they started, you know, writing the steps and taking the steps, they they they didn't they didn't mean for us to take a year doing this stuff. They under they got it.
They understood that our solution was something that we had to get quick. And that's what these steps are designed to do. So when I'm doing my fist stuff, am I am I boring my sponsor to death with all the all the details of all this stuff?
Man, we're just banging through this stuff. All I need to get out of that is I need to see which what it is about me is blocking me from God. That's all I got to do.
And that that's it in a nutshell. It's nothing. Step five.
When I take a guy through step five, depending on how much I run my mouth, it takes an hour or two. I don't ever want to sit through an 8 or 10 hour fish step like I've heard about some people doing. I mean, doesn't that just kind of make you sick thinking about that or or you know, thinking about the new guy going through that?
It's not necessary. Get them to six and seven, send them right home. The book says we we got quiet for an hour where we considered what we've just been doing, what we've learned.
You know, am I solid in step one? Do I understand what my real problem is? Do I believe that that that God can restore me to sanity?
Do I do I believe that these other people have um have gotten sober and stayed sober through a power gra themselves? That's all you need. Step three, are we solid in step three?
Do we understand? If you look at the words in step three, we're making a deal with God. take away my difficulties so I can better do your will.
It's not take away my difficulties. It's we're telling him, you do this, I'll do this. We're making a big deal with God in step three.
And we am I prepared to live up to the bargain I just made if if he does this stuff for me? Hell yeah. Step four, have I left anything out?
No. It's all out there. Do I am I real clear on what it is that's blocking me from God?
Yes. Do I see if I don't get rid of this stuff, I won't get to God and I'll die? Yeah, it's real clear in step one.
Well, great. I'm going to do step seven and ask him to remove this stuff. Step eight, how long does it take to make a list?
Well, you pretty much got it all. Step four, you might add a few people. Step eight might take you 15 minutes, 20 minutes.
That's it. No big deal. Step nine, I thought and a lot of people in a think that that you got to finish your last amend before you go on to steps 10, 11, and 12.
It's crazy. Most of the power that we need to make these amends cuz some of this stuff is tough stuff comes from 10, 11, and 12. Um, I can't believe how wrong I was about that.
Page 84. And I'm going I'm going to show you where where our ticket to do that is. It's it's right here in the book.
Um up to page 84. We've been talking about steps 1 through nine. The promises.
Now we're bringing us to step 10. It says this brings us to step 10, which suggests we take to we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. We vigorously commence this way of living.
Step 10. As we cleaned up the past, we're starting step 10. As we're cleaning up the past, how many lives could we save if if we get people to do 10, 11, and 12 while they're doing step 9?
Where do we lose people? We lose them in the beginning. We definitely lose them with step 9 cuz they just they can't imagine themselves doing this stuff.
And the truth is, they're right. Believe them. when when they can't picture it, believe them.
They don't have the power to do it. They're not feeling it. You get mo most of the mojo from this program comes from the last three steps.
I didn't know that. I had no clue until I did it. So that's, you know, that's what we got to point out to these people is, you know, these steps are are not that hard to take.
And and this is how you do it. It's all right here in this book. You don't have to make up your own four-step guides or first step assignments or or any of this stuff.
It's it's all right here. And um I got to tell you guys, I uh I pretty much screwed myself for for two decades in this program, missing out on on the coolest stuff I've ever experienced in my life, working with other people. Um like I told you, I was afraid of sponsoring people cuz I was afraid of killing them.
I was afraid of looking bad. I was afraid of someone finding out that I didn't know what the hell I was talking about. And and so I just didn't do it.
Since I've gotten with these these big book thumpers and I've taken these steps and and I understand what's in this book cuz I've spent a ton of time studying it, um sponsoring people is is it's so easy. It's It's the coolest thing in the world to watch some guy go from being a a miserable wreck and a couple weeks later he still looks bad, but he's he's got life in his eyes and he's prepared to sponsor other people. He's had an entire psychic change by working these steps and he's got a message to carry.
That is that is the absolute coolest thing in the world. And and it's not a big deal. I was I was thinking, well, if I start sponsoring all sorts of people, then I'm going to have to listen to a bunch of crap from people pissing and moaning about their day and and all this other stuff all day long.
My phone's just going to ring off the hook. Well, you know what? When when you make the commitment on the front end and you get them through this work, I'm not hearing all sorts of crap on the back end.
The problems that they're having is, "Hey, I'm doing this fist with this guy. This is what he said. What I tell him?" These are the kind of problems people are coming to me with.
Or when they get, you know, jammed up with a resentment or a fear or something, we do a page 84 call. They call me up. Hey, this is what happened.
Well, you know, what' you do? That's what you pardon this deal. Do you owe any amends?
No. Did you ask God to remove it? Yes.
Great. Go help another drunk. Click.
It's that simple. And if if you're not doing it, try it. Just try it.
package. It's the absolute coolest thing in the world. Um, you guys want me to go another hour?
Thank you for Thank you to those who who stayed. Um, it uh I I know this is tough stuff. I I know it.
But it but it's stuff that needs to be talked about and and I'm not sorry for that. I I care about the people that come into our rooms looking for a solution and and don't get it. Um happened to me, it's happened to you guys, it's happened to to all the dead people we know.
It's just this this is serious stuff. Thank you for listening. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.
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