The Book Gets Bigger Every Time I Read It – AA Speaker – Charlie P.
AA speaker Charlie P. shares 38 years of sobriety, from early addiction through his spiritual awakening working the steps directly from the Big Book and sponsoring others in recovery.
Charlie P., with nearly four decades of sobriety, walks through what it took to go from a high-functioning addict to someone committed to working the steps exactly as the Big Book outlines them. This AA speaker tape covers his bottom—years of stealing, blackouts, and failed attempts at staying sober through fellowship alone—and the turning point that came when he stopped trying to manage his life and truly surrendered to the program. What makes this talk distinct is Charlie’s honest reflection on how the Big Book continues to reveal new layers of meaning, even after 38 years of studying it, and how sponsoring others became the key to his deepest spiritual growth.
Charlie P. shares 38 years of sobriety, starting with his drinking story from age 16 through hitting bottom, relapsing early on, and finally getting grounded in the steps at age 38 sober. He describes how working the steps directly from the Big Book—rather than through treatment center forms or guides—became the foundation of his recovery and his ability to sponsor others. Charlie discusses the spiritual experience that comes from step work, the importance of carrying the message through sponsorship, and how continued study of the Big Book reveals deeper understanding even after decades, illustrating why this AA speaker emphasizes working the steps the way they are written.
Episode Summary
Charlie P. opens with raw honesty about a drinking career that spanned nearly three decades. From his first drink at sixteen, alcohol wasn’t a social pleasure—it was a tool to numb the spiritual emptiness he didn’t yet understand. By his late twenties, he was pocketing loaded guns, pawning his parents’ belongings (including his father’s shotgun and rifles), emerging from five-day blackouts with $8 in his pocket and pawn tickets in hand. The shame of those moments—watching his father’s face when yet another scam unraveled, driving across Dallas retrieving stolen items from pawn shops—still catches him up emotionally, decades later.
After nine months of putting off treatment while throwing “Charlie’s about to go to treatment” parties, Charlie finally checked in one Christmas season. He emerged with thirty days of recovery and a brief period of sobriety focused on fellowship, meetings, and AA social life. But meetings alone couldn’t fix the spiritual void. At ten months sober, he was terrified of his own guns in the house, not suicidal but something dark moving through him. He slipped back out, and that relapse became a gift in disguise: it showed him that the option he’d fantasized about—casual use, social drinking—was genuinely gone.
This AA speaker tape traces the moment Charlie returned to the program on March 22nd, 1985, with a different kind of desperation. He found a sponsor willing to work the steps seriously, not through worksheets or treatment center forms, but directly from the Big Book, page by page. The turning point came at a young people’s meeting in California when he met a woman he calls “Big Book Barbie.” While most people tried to date her, she peppered him with questions about his spiritual condition and his fourth step. When Charlie hedged—saying he was gathering forms and resources—she cut through it: “If you don’t work the steps out of the Big Book, you can’t show somebody how to work the steps out of the Big Book.”
That simple statement redirected his entire recovery. Charlie got a sponsor, worked the Big Book methodically, and experienced a genuine spiritual awakening—not a vague feeling, but a concrete shift in how he related to life. He shares stories of his sponsor teaching him to name fear (at a water park slide), of miraculously connecting with a man named Bob who became his sponsor during a painful divorce, of learning that surrender isn’t just saying the words but actually releasing control.
Years into recovery, Charlie slipped into a different kind of trap: success and comfort. He had money, a penthouse in Manhattan, a beach house in the Hamptons. He was also lying—about work dealings, about his marriage, about his spiritual condition. He’d get on his knees asking for God’s will, then immediately go do his own thing on the side. He stopped sponsoring. People stopped asking him questions. Then came a plane crash—engine failure over the Hamptons at night, five people on board, only his dog didn’t make it. The crash didn’t send him back to drinking; it woke him up to how much he’d been sleepwalking through his own recovery.
What followed was a recommitment to the program, not as a sober person resting on his laurels but as someone actively engaged in sponsorship and Big Book study. Charlie describes the shift: he stopped managing and started serving. He picked up sponsees and worked the steps with them, page by page, the way he’d been taught. And something remarkable happened. The book got bigger. Every time he read it, he saw new things. At twenty years sober, something he’d read a hundred times suddenly clicked differently. He credits this to staying engaged, to teaching newcomers, to not treating recovery as something he’d completed.
This AA speaker emphasizes the power of one drunk talking to another—the simplicity of what Bill W. and Dr. Bob discovered and what still works today. He talks about the promises in the Big Book, not as abstract hope but as concrete results: when you do the actions outlined, “remarkable things will happen.” He’s lived that. His current sobriety is marked by deep connection to other men in recovery, by the joy of watching someone he sponsored then sponsor another person, by the expanding network of people committed to the Big Book and the steps as written.
Charlie closes with gratitude that borders on amazement—amazed he’s still here, amazed the program works, amazed that he can still find new understanding on a page he’s read dozens of times. The book gets bigger every time he reads it, he says, because the book doesn’t change—he does. That’s the promise of continued spiritual progress, and it’s the foundation of everything he passes on to the people he sponsors.
Notable Quotes
From that day until the day I had to stop, I never turned down the opportunity to get loaded for any reason under any circumstances.
The fellowship will keep you sober right up to the point that you get loaded. It will not fix the spiritual malady that we come in here with.
If you don’t work the steps out of the Big Book, you can’t show somebody how to work the steps out of the Big Book.
I really didn’t understand how much I was missing out on trying to manage. I was managing my ass off and it was not going good.
The more I study this book, the deeper my understanding gets. Every time I read it, I see new stuff in it. The book gets bigger every time I read it.
If you persist, remarkable things will happen. When we look back, we realize that the things which came to us when we put ourselves in God’s hands were better than anything we could have planned.
Big Book Study
Sponsorship
Step 12 – Carrying the Message
Spiritual Awakening
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Big Book Study
- Sponsorship
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Spiritual Awakening
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.
Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> I've known this guy for a little while here.
He and I uh we at one point in time had a uh had a a mutual best friend and uh he decided that uh he wanted to go out to do some research and I think today he's in the the big meeting in the sky. You better be in the big meeting in the sky. Better be going some meetings in the sky.
>> Anyway, this guy Charlie is uh he's I've always admired his sobriety. He one of his sayings when you're out having a good time with little Charlie, he'll say, "Boy, we're living the promises now." And I knew I met him like a year or two sober. I was like, "Huh?
Get you." >> Anyway, he's a good egg. He's great. Love soy.
I just love people that love sobriety. >> And uh for further ado, let's give him a big riverband welcome. >> Hi everybody.
I'm Charlie Parker. I'm an alcoholic and uh I'm glad to be here tonight. My sobriety date is March 22nd of 1985 and for that I'm truly grateful and sometimes astounded.
I uh I um you know it's funny. I can't I can't believe I've never been to this meeting before. I've been hearing about this meeting for a for a long time.
But I just and I kind of knew which building it was in but I just never had quite the guts to come out here and and uh look around. But I'm glad to be here. I I go to uh I've got three regular meetings that I go to every week and it's good to get out.
It's a great looking bunch and uh I want to thank the people that asked me to come talk tonight. I uh it's funny I had to start writing down some notes on my talk because which is I always thought that was the Alanons that did that. But uh I um I uh a buddy of mine and I were talking the other day and at the same time he was speaking in Dallas and I was speaking in Austin at another fellowship and uh he called me later.
Both of us are big you love the big book and like to talk about stuff and I he called me goes how's your talk going? I said oh Tom I did it again. He said what?
I said, you know, I looked up 37 minutes into the talk and I was still drinking whiskey and he goes, "That's all right. 2/3 of the way into my talk, I was 14." You know, so I uh you know, our book says uh our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what it's like now. And that's what I always uh try to do when I talk and that's what I try to go back to if I ever get nervous.
I uh um you know just to talk a little bit about what it was like. I I I came from a uh fairly I came from a good family. I was the only drunk, still the only drunk in my family and and uh I I did have the uh a sister that was perfect and that that was a little uh a little a little tough to grow, you know, go through, but uh um my mother was a first grade teacher for 42 years.
And uh let's just say I was well prepared for the first grade. I uh so so I look pretty good, you know, when I when I got up there. Hi Dave.
Um, you know, um, I was well prepared for the first grade and I got in there and so I they kept talking about my potential. You know, I used to test well and they would talk about you my potential and you know, you're not living up to your potential. Well, I don't know if anybody else has suffered under the under the burden of potential, but I UH UM one thing I can report to you is that 12 or 15 years of uh drinking whiskey and shooting it dope will significantly lower people's expectations of you.
You know, by the time I got to this program, it was like, just get a job. You know, I mean, we don't care about an education anymore or a career. just get off the couch, you know, for God's sake.
But, you know, I uh I uh it's funny. I I started drinking. I had my first drink that I There's two first drinks that I mean, kind of there's two episodes that I remember and they were both in the ninth grade.
And uh you know, so I started drinking in the ninth grade. And it seemed young at the time, but I mean nowadays that makes me kind of a late bloomer. I mean, you know, people are sobering up at like eight now, you know.
I mean, it's like, you know, I I um I thought I was getting this buddy of mine, PJ, is 38 and has been sober 24 years. And uh if you listen to his story, he didn't get here any too early either, you know. I mean, he was uh he had a pretty good run at it.
But I just, you know, I started for my story, I started at 16 and um uh it was fairly insignificant. and then a hugely significant event at the same time. I mean, I don't have to tell you what it was like when I if if you're alcoholic in this if you're not alcoholic in this room, I welcome you in.
And if you are, you I don't need to tell you what that first drink was like. But it was it was a big day for me. And uh and and and it would be it'd be impressive to stand up here and say that I got smashed every day for the rest of my until I got here.
But but that's that wouldn't be true cuz I didn't get loaded every day. But the thing I can tell you in all honesty is that from that day until the day I had to stop, I um never turned down the opportunity to get loaded for any reason under any circumstances. There was never a time that somebody would offer it up and I'd say, "Oh, I'm sorry.
um you know it's my mother's birthday or uh um I have have an engagement or you know I need to be somewhere in November or you know or something it was just all bets were off at any opportunity and and you know I did that um I did that for a long time and you know it's funny when we got here I I say that I'm an alcoholic and before I go any further I hope I don't offend anybody if I mention any outside um issues but I my problem was alcohol alcoholism. My problem was alcoholism from elementary school. And my my biggest problem was the spiritual malady, but I didn't know what that was in junior high school, you know.
And what showed up for me was alcoholism. My alcoholism led me to do a lot of things other than drink alcohol. I uh I still have alcoholism show up from time to time in my sober life.
But I uh in fact, it's funny when you get here. I don't know if for anybody that's new, I uh I welcome you. But you know, it's like we're speaking a different language in here.
You know, you walk in and it's Mr. Bill and Dr. Bob and step this and step that and this promise and that tradition and and you start hearing terms you never heard.
One of them I never heard when I got here was somebody talks about their drug of choice. And I thought that was so cute, you know. I mean, did did anybody talk about that when we were out there?
I mean, do you ever remember anybody coming up to you going, "I'm sorry. No, that's not my particular drug of choice." Uh, you know, uh, you know, I mean, for me, it was like I had stuff that I would spend my money on, but whatever you've got will BE JUST FINE. It's so I was uh I was a little bit of a pig, you know, when I and and I uh um but I drank a lot and I did a lot of other things.
And and at one point I had I shared an apartment. Well, say I shared an apartment. I was sleeping there.
These other two guys were paying the rent. But um one of them was a drug connection. The other one was a bartender.
It was really it was in some ways it was handy. But I I'll never forget uh the the thing though that made me say it is that the people that I drank with thought that I did too much drugs and the people that I did drugs with were shocked by my drinking. And um so you know everybody thought that I was getting too loaded.
And you know for me all of it even alcohol alcohol was never a a beverage for me. It was always a drug delivery system. And I was always about getting smashed.
I didn't, you know, it wasn't um what does the big book say about joyous conviviality? Uh you know that I mean that was secondary for me. You know the main thing for me was that I really needed to change the way I felt dramatically.
And uh so uh I did I did that for a long time. But it started and there was a time when everything was really good, you know. I mean our big book says and and whenever I this is the first 164 pages of the big book that guy that I love in Dallas had leather bound for whenever I say it says I'm always talking about our big book of alcoholics anonymous and I I love that book.
I got to tell you a quick story. When I was in treatment there was a guy in there that we were in this detox center. I mean and we had we had people I looked pretty good compared to the guys I went to treatment with.
I I was a high bottom drunk there cuz I had a change of clothes. BUT AND AND I'm get I'm getting ahead of myself because but I got to tell you this story. This guy I had 28 migraine headaches in a 30-day treatment plan.
So I it was I wasn't sleeping very good. I was and I was up walking the halls every day and and there was this in the lobby of the where we um I went to treatment in the community area. They had this big case with a set of uh World Book encyclopedias in it.
You know, back before the internet, that's a big deal to have, you know, encyclopedias and everything. And they had this big World Atlas. There was a slot in the back of the case that the uh World Atlas was in.
And then the encyclopedias were on the shelves. You know, no big deal. It's just something out there.
Well, I'm walking the halls one night and there was a guy that come right off the street. He's crazy as a road lizard. I mean, I remember they we had goulash that night and he said, "Um, I only eat health food." You know, I can't.
They said, "When was the last time you ate?" And he said, "4our days ago." And and he ate two skillets of goulash. So, he was but he's sitting there at the table and he's flipping through that World Atlas. It's about 1:30 in the morning.
I got a headache. I'm walking the halls and he's going, "Man, this is really cool." >> And I was like, "Well, good. I'm glad you're digging it." you know, and um I found out later like after he was gone that he had he couldn't sleep, you know, he was kicking and and he'd gone into the office.
He said, "I can't sleep. Uh you got anything I can read?" And John Bernie had said, "Uh, if you want to read something, why don't you go read the big book?" And uh he was he was reading the biggest book we had, you know, and and so so whenever we talk about the big book, we're we're this is what we're talking about, you know? I mean, so I can just I have visions of this guy getting off back in the bar stool going, I went to AA, you know, I I read their damn big book.
It didn't do anything for me, you know. But but I can tell you where Afghanistan is now. But but uh you know what I was saying is that our book says that that we are men and women who drink primarily because we like the effect produced by alcohol.
And you know, I don't think any of us drank because we were trying to tear ourselves down. I just I loved what alcohol did for me. And uh there were there at the time that I first tried it and for many many times after that, it was just right.
And uh as far as I know, it might have kept me from blowing my brains out cuz I had a spiritual malady that I didn't even know about. You know, it's funny. And I still sometimes struggle with the term spiritual malady, but almost everybody you hear a lot of people in the program talking about that hole.
And to me, that's that spiritual malady that I that I came in here with. And I tried stuffing a lot of stuff in that whole um you know before and after I came into this fellowship. But I I it worked real well for a long time and then it just kind of quit working.
And uh you know being the smart guy that I am when it quit working I just quit you know like 12 years later and it just shut it down you know and and uh it was uh it was those 12 years that my family remembers the most. I uh you know it it really started getting sloppy and I started you know I started doing stuff some of my outside issues uh required a little more money than a six-pack cost and and I started running u a deficit you might say. I I used to love the pawn shops.
I um I loved to pawn stuff. Uh the problem with that was I didn't own anything and and so I was always having to pawn stuff that didn't belong to me and that creates hard feelings, you know, with the with the people that, you know, and but what I would do was I would I'd go in my parents house and I'd pull in a shotgun or a deer rifle. I didn't have to go in and take like the TV out of the living room, you know, uh where they'd notice like right away.
I could there was stuff, you know, on the periphery that you could and and you could pawn for like you had like 3 months to get everything out and then I'd pull some big scam and and get everything out and uh and and then I could go well that all worked pretty well, but like most of my plans, the wheels came off after a while. And one time I came out of a five-day blackout um a five-day don't remember nothing blackout. I just I had pulled a little scan that netted $1,600 and that was enough to get everything out.
And uh um I I came out of this blackout on the side of the bed upstairs at my parents house and I had $8 in my pocket and I still had this wad of pawn tickets. Um dark day, you know, I mean just, you know, it's like, you know, you know those mornings where you wake up and just go, "Oh no." you know, um cuz I, you know, I had it all together and then I just, you know, you know what happens. And so I would have to go to my dad.
And my dad was a hardworking guy, good guy, you know, and uh I'd have to go to my dad and go, "Dad, you know, if we act now, I can uh I can get you a good deal on all your stuff, but if we wait till tomorrow, it's going to be straight strictly retail, you know. And uh it's funny, you know, I I tell that story, but uh I have to be careful when I tell that story because emotion is like will just boil up out of me. Um you know, um I never intended to do that to my dad.
So I damn it, I didn't see it coming. I like to tell that story like it's a joke so that doesn't happen because um my I didn't like doing that to my dad. And we'd have to go around and to get everything out of the pawn shops.
And uh you know, everybody in here has probably made those promises, you know, where where you I'd say, "Dad, I swear to God, I will never do this again." And and um and the problem was it was Dallas, this is all in Dallas. Dallas a big town, and they got pawn shops and dealers spread out all over town. So it wasn't like, "Come on, Dad.
We got to go to this pawn shop." It's like, "Okay, we need to do Garland Road. There's uh three shops on Gar Road. Then we need to go to East Grand and then there's a couple on Harry Hines where I left a couple of things and then Buckner Boulevard and then we'll need to go out into Oak Cliff cuz I left some stuff out there.
So it was all day in the car with that shame, you know, that just just all over you. And and and I would be promising my dad that uh that well I'll never do this again. And and if I was lying to him, I didn't know I was lying cuz it felt like I meant it with everything that I had.
But what would happen was when whenever we'd get everything out, you give it a couple of days and I'd uh I'd hit his house like a cat burglar and and you know, we my dad did that three times with me. Um where we went and got all my dad eventually went up in Alenon, BUT UH AND I got I got a good story about that. I get to later.
But, you know, the the funny thing about it was this this whole time I was about to go to treatment. You know, I mean, it had started getting sloppy and I had I had uh I had met a guy and there was a maintenance man in my apartment that had told me about this treatment thing and he kept coming in. He'd come in.
We were taking bongheads getting ready for school every morning. And uh he would come in with us and talk to us about treatment, treatment, treatment, treatment. You know, I don't know why I thought we gave a damn about hearing about it, but you know, he kept talking about this treatment.
He never talked about detox. He never really told me what it was, but he said, you know, you need to Well, he did give me one piece of bad advice. He did say, before you go, you might want to go pull a really good drunk because they're going to make you not want to drink anymore.
And I was like, I'm on it. >> >> So, so that drug, that last drunk took nine months and and for that for that entire nine months, I was about to go to treatment. I don't know if anybody else, you know, has has experienced that, but you know, next week, next week is a good time to go to treatment.
You know, and and probably Mon probably Monday or Tuesday, you know, I'll I'm going to go to treatment. And then sometimes it would get really bad and I'm going to go tomorrow. You know, I'll go I'll go by God I'll go tomorrow.
We even had a couple This sounds like BS, but we had a couple of Charlie's about to go to treatment parties, you know, where um you know, we we would get our stuff together and you know, because Charlie's about to go to treatment. But the problem was today was never the day to go to treatment. um you know and and when tomorrow and I'll go tomorrow but when tomorrow would get here it would always be today and today was never the day it was like mm- no um maybe tomorrow but you know well so finally I you know I I I had to go and and I ran out I got to the point where nobody I knew would let me spend the night in their house I didn't know anybody that would loan me $3.
I was just out of stuff and it just was really sloppy and there's some criminal charges floating around and stuff like that. So, you know, it was started really uh looking um sloppy and I got to tell you about these pajamas. I uh I didn't know what treatment was going to be like, but I had it pictured somewhere between the hospital and the jail and and I thought it was going to be more like a hospital.
And so I went with my I like stolen credit cards, too. And I took the last stolen credit card I had and I went and bought a pair of these uh purple Christian Dior pajamas and uh slippers and a matching robe. It's really kind of burgundy, you know?
I mean, it wasn't it wasn't tacky. A friend of mine, Mark Beno, said that that's Mogan David red color. But uh but I uh I needed those pajamas because I thought, you know, if you're in the hospital, you spend a lot of time in the bed and and I had this picture of treatment that I was going to lay up on the bed and they were going to come in and treat me a little bit every day, you know, just treat you a little in the morning, treat you a little in the afternoon.
And I didn't know why it was going to take 30 days, but uh but you know, I I had the room in my schedule for it. So I um So I went and and you know what the last thing that happened was one night I I ran into a car leaving a bar in a blackout. I'd had five Long Island Allen TE's and I I I wrecked this car but I'm still rolling so I kept uh driving and you know I jumped out of the car and for some reason my shoes were off and I grabbed my shoes and it was one of those nights where you can only see about that big and and uh I'm running back through the trees and the cops were already looking at this car and I I remember thinking good good god they got here fast and uh and so I um I ran to the barn like any good drunk I reported the car stolen and and uh um and uh the next day they called me and they said, "You need to take a lie detector test to before you can pick your car up." And I said, "Why is that?" They said, "It was involved in an accident before it was reported stolen." I said, "You've got to be kidding." And he said, "Uh, no, they ran into a parked police car." I thought to myself, "That explains how they got there so fast." you know, you know, cuz but you know, there's a friend of mine that talks about our lives being saved and changed by seconds and inches.
And sometimes I like to think about what would have happened if those two cops had been standing behind that car riding a parking ticket. You know, I would I'd be talking at a jail meeting still tonight, you know, 20 years later. So, uh things could have gone a lot worse than they did.
I um I checked into treatment and uh some good stuff happened there. This is Christmas time of 83 and uh I'll never forget, you know, we're learning a lot of stuff. But it it was Christmas time and on Christmas day, they put out this beautiful spread turkey and dressing.
Now, I'm a big boy now, but I was 292 then. So, I was good 40 45 lbs heavier then than I am now. And I was real interested in this Christmas dinner.
and and they uh get I get this big plate of food and we sit down in this big room and right when we're about to eat the door swings open and in comes a group of people from one of the local churches and they're going to come in and sing to us come sing to these poor heathen drunks on on you know Christmas day and I thought oh good and uh so I can't start my meal and um I'm sitting there and this woman I see her and she's going around and she's talking to this guy and she's talking to this guy and she's talking to this guy and she gets over to A and I usually tell this story when I get to the point where I'm talking about that what AA started on and what started Alcoholics Anonymous and what AA is still based on is one drunk talking to another one. That's the beauty of this program is that I can't hear the message from a counselor or a psychiatrist or a PO or my mother or uh the lawyer, the judges, all the people that want to talk to us. But when you get one drunk talking to another one, we know whether we know each other real soon.
this woman comes up to me and she says, "Are you fine here?" And I said, "Yes, I am." She goes, "I know exactly what you're going through." And I thought, "Really?" She said, "I was once addicted to caffeine." And and I was like, "Oh, ain't that a bitch?" You know, um, did did you ever pawn your mother Sterling to get a can of folders? You know, I she was trying to identify, but it just it just wasn't quite there, you know, but I uh so that's why I like to talk about, you know, the beauty of one drunk. It started with Bill talking to Bob and it's still, you know, what works best is one drunk talking to another one.
you know, I got out of that treatment center and um I uh I did the first few steps while I was in treatment, but then I just tried to stay sober off of the fellowship. I got heavily involved in the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. I I went to AA meetings.
I went to AA barbecues. I I worked with AA co-workers. I had AA roommates.
I dated AA girls. Um, it was just AA fellowship all the time. And and I love the f, don't get me wrong when I say this, I love the fellowship alcoholics synonymous.
I mean, we have a lot of fellowship over at my house. We had, you know, 25 people for breakfast this morning and probably another 25 last night. And I mean, I love the fellowship alcoholics.
What I can tell you is the fellowship will keep you sober right up to the point that you get loaded. Um, it will not fix the spiritual malady that we come in here with, you know, and there's I can't go to enough meetings to fix what's wrong with me. And what will eventually happen, the book says there will come a time when we'll have no mental defense against the first drink.
And what happens for me is uh I've got a window of time. It's the only thing the the way I read the book, the only thing that's going to keep me from that that uh point where I have no mental defense against the first drink is a spiritual experience. The book says that we have a physical allergy and then a uh mental obsession.
So, I can't drink, but I got a brain that is eventually going to tell me it's a good idea. And uh that was my problem when I got here, cuz I would always eventually drink again. my brain would eventually say it's a good idea.
It's not going to be like it was last time. And really, if you think about it, last time wasn't that bad. I mean, for God's sake, he might have been a little hasty going alcoholic synonymous.
I mean, you know, you know, and you know, that that squirrel cage starts going and uh and at 10 months, I was uh that's crazier than I've ever been. I uh um I had an evening where I was I was afraid to sleep in my house with my guns in it. And I'm not a suicidal guy.
I'm I'm more likely to be homicidal than than suicidal. And you know, I'd never had any. And even that night, it was a vague feeling, but you know, I knew something was bad wrong with me.
And this was 10 months sober. It wasn't too long after that that I uh I took another run at it. And you know, I like to talk about that first period of sobriety because what happened was during that time of sobriety, my life got a lot better.
You know, when I was spending all that time in the fellowship and I think I got enough relief from the meetings to keep me going for that 10 months. You know, I'd get nutty and I'd go to a meeting and I'd get nutty and I'd go to a meeting and I and and but I don't think it'll give us that spiritual awakening that the program talks about the the real life changing stuff that this program offers and and you know what what happened though when I went out on that slip my you know we we could talk about euphoric recall in here about how in my mind when I if I am contemplating going back to getting loaded it is a wonderful world out there, you know? I mean, it's like I've always got a pocket full of cash and and I've got a sweet car to drive and the connection's always home and he's always in pocket and and you know, it's just a beautiful world.
And then, you know, when I went back to using, I remember just how ugly it was, you know? I mean, that there's so much ugliness that I had just fallen out of my brain, you I mean, the just that that self-esteem where you got to put on sunglasses to go into 7-Eleven to buy a pack of cigarettes, you know, I mean, that's uh that's what I came in here with. So, you know, I like to think about it when I think about how wonderful it is, you know, for me to or what I'm missing out on drinking.
My sponsor one time I was down on Sixth Street and I I saw these people and they were having fun, you know, and uh um I mean like those people on the Kors Light commercial. God almighty Kors Light looks fun, doesn't it? But um I uh my sponsor said, "You're picking people that don't drink like you do to envy." You know, if you're going to if you're going to miss drinking, you need to go down there and pick out the guy that they you know that they're putting in the back seat of the car going, "Watch your head." Um um and say, "God dang, I'm missing out on all of that." you know, I mean, you know, but um but so I I come back into the program and that whole first time I had really um felt like even though my life was a lot better, it was like right back here was drugs and alcohol and it was still there for me.
Uh I knew my life was better sober, but I really felt like if I if I hit a point where it wasn't better sober that it was still there for me. And uh March 22nd of 1985 was at that time one of the saddest days of my life because that was the day that it became evident that it wasn't there for me anymore. That Charlie Parker cannot successfully use drugs or alcohol in any fashion.
You know, it's always going to get worse, never going to get better. And so now I'm back in this program because it's it's the only thing. It's my only shot, you know.
And uh uh I had a new level of interest in this fellowship and and I really, you know, you hear all those the stick with winners and you and you can't lose. And I really started hanging around people. I feel like I was blessed with people that were serious about the recovery program the way it's lined out in the book.
And uh and I love those people. I still love them today. I'm still drawn to people that that you know, you're not going to hurt my feelings if you call me a big book thumper.
I I I love this book and I don't care whether as long as you read it, you can thump it all you want, you know, but I uh um I uh I started getting around people. It was really funny. I did the first I met my sponsor.
I did the first three steps with him. We did the third step on our knees together and we and we really got a thorough understanding of what that hopeless condition of mind and body was that it's talking about in the first step. that that idea that I I can't drink and I can't not drink.
And and it wasn't until I really understood how hopeless that condition is that the higher power thing really started being interesting to me. The steps kind of roll like that. If if if I don't if I as long as I can do it, I don't know why I'd be interested in the higher power.
You know, it's just stand out of the way and let me take care of business. But once I'm really convinced that I can't drink and I can't not drink, then it's like, "You got something for me?" I mean, and they go, "Yeah, well, there's this higher power thing." And and you know, then it starts looking interesting. And once I'm convinced that that will work, it was pretty easy deal to say, you know, um, let's get down on our knees and and do the third step prayer together.
And and you know, and it's, uh, so I'm right about there, but I'm still kind of stalling. My sponsor didn't give me that clear directions on the on the fourth step and I didn't you know I went out to California to see my uh sister and she lived in a hotel at the time. Her husband was a general manage manager so we could get dry cleaning done for free.
The point of all that is that I went to this young people's meeting in Sanelmo. about 200 people there about half of them were pretty and uh I'm starched and tight and you know I'd lost a bunch of weight and I was not thinking about spiritual growth you know and um um I go in this meeting and there's all these people there and I go up to this girl after the meeting her name was Barbara and u I go up to her and I said uh you know uh do any of y'all go out for coffee or anything after the meeting and she goes Yeah, a lot of us go to this Jojo's over here and uh I thought, "Okay, well, you know, I'd like to join you." So, we uh after the meeting, it was a great meeting. There was rock stars there and you know, and and I mean the thing I'll never forget is this one huge rock star had her hand up for half the meeting and they didn't call on it and I thought that's just what I get, you know, you know.
So, uh, so, uh, we go to the, and when we get in this coffee shop, she says, "Uh, why don't you and I sit over here at the counter instead of, uh, over there with everybody else." And I thought, "All right." And, uh, uh, so we're sitting there and she had introduced herself to me as Barbara, but I found out later that everybody knew her as Big Book Barbie. And uh, I did not get what I was thinking about that lady. Well, we sit down at that at that um at that counter and Big Book Barbie starts talking about, "Do you believe you have a hopeless condition of mind and body?" Um um God puts people in my life, you know, at times like that.
And it's, you know, when I look back on it, I see that my life was saved, you know, and stuff like that cuz I, you know, but Barbie's going, um, have you turned your life over to carry God? Are you have, have you done a fourth step? And I said, no, why not?
When, you know, and and it's just peppering me with questions. And I was like, good God, man. And and and you know, she so she's like, have you have you done a fourth step out of and I said, well, no, I why not?
And I said, "Well, you know, I'm gathering this data because, you know, uh, the treatment center, the treatment center I went to had a form and then and there's a form and this form and that form." And she goes, "You ever thought about doing it out of the big book?" And and I was like, "No, not really." I mean, because I looked at that stuff in the book and uh, the Mr. Brown and she's a nut and you know, she snubbed me and you know, all you know, and I was I just wasn't getting it. And and Barbie said to me that she goes, "You know, if you work the if you don't work the steps out of the big book, Alcoholics Anonymous, you can't show somebody how to work the steps out of the Big Book Alcoholics Anonymous.
And if you do work the steps, let somebody show you how to work the steps exactly the way they're lined up in the Big Book. You don't have to run around and get all these little hen house fourstep guides if somebody comes up and says, "Can you put me through the steps?" You just get out your big book and you sit down with them and work the steps. And you know, I am so glad that I didn't get laid that night, you know, uh because uh looking back in my life, I've never had my higher power just speak to me, you know, but I've had him put people in my life that channel me in a direction of growth that I didn't even know that I needed to go in.
And and um sometimes I look back on it and uh that you know sometimes I think what chokes me up is that I can look back on that moment and I know that my ass was on the line. Uh I didn't know it at the time. You know in in the big book when we get to that third step it says we stood at the turning point but there's no road sign.
There's no street light at the turning point. You know I don't I didn't realize that the one direction was this and the other direction was that. It's just, you know, um the way things were going and you know, so I'm I'm real grateful when I look back on that.
I've got, you know, there's other stuff that happened. Um you know, uh there was another time that uh talking about the fellowship, uh while we're doing all these steps and stuff, we were in a lot of fellowship. Katie and man, you know, I mean, Dave Hamry, God almighty, that was, you know, everybody was getting together and um uh we did a lot of stuff together and it was a lot of fun.
It doesn't take one or two people to really change the fellowship. You know, you get a couple of people that are willing to organize stuff, you know, like this weenie deal or uh you know, um we'd say, "All right, we're going to go tub in the Guadaloop today or we're going to, you know, we just come up with stuff and everybody gang up." up. You know, the Pacific Group out in California, if they decide to go snow skiing, they're chartering two or three buses and filling them up.
And you know, when somebody comes into that group, they know they're a part of something, you know, and and you know, and I love that fellowship of alcoholics. I love people coming, you know, from rock bottom, nothing. All of a sudden, you know, they're part of a big deal.
This day, we decided we're all going to go to Wet N Wild. And my sponsor was there. Um, and you know, the thing I want to talk about is that, you know, you just never know where you're going to be able to teach somebody a little bit.
And my sponsor and I were at this place called Wet N Wild, and we're at this one ride where it's this slide that just drops straight down about 110 ft and it's high-speed enema is all it is. But, YOU KNOW, UM, BUT YOU YOU walk up this circular staircase and and and it's almost our turn, you know, and and we're like a third from going and the tower's kind of moving in the wind a little bit and and uh my and it's loud. The wind is blowing in our ears and stuff.
And my sponsor looks at me and he goes, "YOU FEEL THAT right there?" And I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "That's fear. He says, "Identify that feeling. It's going to come up again for you." You know, it's like, you know, so, you know, you just you never know when we're going to get to carry the message.
But you know um another time I am going along and I have hit I don't know about anybody else but I've hit in my sobriety I I've I've hit some real bottoms you know where I mean it hadn't it seemed like when I would go hear aa speakers that they would talk about how bad it was when they were out there and then I came through those doors and it's been nothing but you know happy joyous and free ever since. Well, you know, that has not been my experience. You know, my alcoholism has been stuck to my shoe, you know, for a lot of my sobriety.
And uh uh you know, and I've had to learn to grow up in front of you guys and with you guys and and uh y'all have seen my mistakes and my uh successes and and uh um you know, I just one time I went up to Dallas. This is another one of those examples where this guy spoke and he talked about a lot of significant problems in soiety, not being able to work, not you know, spending more money than he made, gambling, uh a lot of stuff that I just love and and uh um and uh I really had never talked to a speaker after the after the talk before, you know, and this was at the Lonear roundup. There's 3,000 people there and he was from St.
Paul, Minnesota, and I was from Austin. And so I uh um and after the meeting, there's this big line of people that want to talk to him. And I said, I forget it.
You know, but but I really, you know, I was had this nagging feeling that I was supposed to talk to this guy. And I come back to Austin. I had a phone in my car back when that was a big deal, you know, and I mean some, you know, it was it was like a couple of grand for a phone back then.
and and and in order to call information then you had to call the area code and 5551212. It wasn't all this nationwide would connect you and all. So I'm back in Austin.
I'm thinking I really need to talk to this guy and his name was Bob Bzans and um uh I don't know the area code for St. Paul, Minnesota, you know, so I can't call information and besides that how do you spell bison, you know? I mean it's like it could be 11 different spellings, you know.
So, but that's Monday. I'm thinking about that. And then Tuesday goes by and I'm still trying to figure out and and uh I go to my regular Tuesday night big book study meeting that night up over in Northland.
And uh they say, "Is anybody here from out of town or other groups?" And this guy raised his hand. He goes, "My name's Bill. I'm from St.
Paul, Minnesota." I thought, "Well, there you go. Uh he'll at least know the area code." and uh and you know there's a chance that he'll know somebody that knows Bob and maybe you know we can hook. So when the meeting's over I'll make a beline for this guy and I I I go um so you're from St.
call and he goes, "Yeah." I said, "You don't happen to know a guy named Bob?" And he goes, "Yeah, he's my dad." And I went, "Whoa." And he goes, "I really got to go to the bathroom." I said, "I really got to sit down, you know." And uh so, you know, and that's just those things when I talk about God not really showing up, you know, and and but but really showing up at the same time. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, you know, where because Bob, I was getting a divorce at the time. I was uh 5 years sober and I was really not doing good.
And uh um Bob sponsored me through that divorce with some pretty stiff advice. And I don't know how many people went to the 60th anniversary. So y'all heard him talk.
You've heard this story before, but I uh he is a solid AI and this is a guy that's 38 years sober and he's still working on his sobriety and working on his recovery and working on living better and you know and so I mean and I love that. I you know I I uh had times in my sobriety where I was uh um less involved in AA, more involved in AA and uh I went through a period where I was less involved in AI and uh a lot of fear, a little dishonesty started creeping in, you know, and I had a couple things that I was uh doing at work. I don't know if this has ever happened to anybody else, but I had a couple things I was doing at work and and and I would it started getting in the way of my spiritual life.
I um cuz I would get down on my knees. I never I never ever wanted to be a phony in Alcoholics Anonymous. I I love this program and I didn't I never wanted to say like you need to be doing this and that, you know, if I'm not doing it, you know, and and what started happening for me was I would I would get down on my knees and and and and ask for God's will in my life, but then I'd have to go I'll I'll do this deal over here.
You know, I mean, you know, you just I'll I'll take care of this. Well, and then that one other thing, I'll take care of that, but you can have everything else. and and uh and um it started feeling real phony and it start and then so then what I wound up doing was I just quit getting on my knees um because uh cuz it just didn't feel right anymore and uh I would rock along and I was and I was having to uh and you know it just there was there was a period where I remember uh I got asked to talk someplace I didn't really feel like I had a whole lot to say you know and uh and people weren't asking me to sponsor them and I don't know how they can tell but you know um I'd go to meetings and I'd sit there and people weren't coming up to me and saying you know can I talk to you about the steps and stuff and um but I I never thought about drinking.
I was still going to AA meetings and and you know and it and uh you couldn't tell a lot of times from the outside. Uh um but what happened for me was and I was in a marriage and it was a as a commuting marriage between here and New York City and on the outside it all it all looked real good. Um, we had, you know, penthouse apartment in Manhattan and a beach house in the Hamptons and it was all but it just it was it was there was a lot of stuff there that wasn't right.
And uh so one night July 21st uh we're flying from the Hamptons back into Manhattan. First time in my life I've ever chartered a plane. I knew people that flew to the Hamptons every weekend.
We charted our plane the first time and we get up there and uh the guy powers back on the engine and I'm in the co-pilot seat. I put the headphones on. I hear I hear him say, "You're cleared to Nebraska and he goes, "No, you don't understand.
I've lost engine power. I'm going to have to ditch. Uh we can't make land.
I'm going to have to ditch." And I'm going, "What?" you know, the first time, you know, I mean, and and so we crashed into the water at night um in the Hampton at the out eastern Long Island. And you know, the typical injury in a plane crash is a fatality. And uh there were five of us on that plane and everybody but my dog made it.
And you know, it's just it's just miraculous. But and I I came out of that deal and it I don't know what happened but it gave me a whole new look at everything. It's a you know it was a it was an eyeopening experience.
I I'll never forget being in the drugstore like the next day and somebody going how you doing? I'm like I'm doing good. you know, um, you know, it could be a whole lot worse, you know, but but what happened as a result of that, you know, I wound up uh getting out of that marriage and uh um and I didn't really know what was happening, but I I you know, I'm back in Texas all the time.
And uh I started, you know, recognizing that whole and I did the other thing that I was doing at work. Uh the little dishonesty at work. I got rid of that.
You know, it it cost me about 30 grand a year. But um I you know, we got we we stopped doing that. And uh so now there's nothing blocking me from my higher power anymore.
and and and I really I don't think I understood how much I was missing out on trying to manage. You know that that line in the book where it says, "Isn't he a victim of the delusion that he can rest satisfaction and happiness from this life if he only manages well?" And I was managing my ass off and was uh was and it was not going good, you know. So, one day I call up uh the guy I work with here, John Henry, and uh I uh I don't remember what we were going to talk about, but he says, "Uh, why don't you come to my office tomorrow at 3:15 and we'll go down to the ranch and talk to the winners." And it seemed like a big pain in the ass to me, you know, uh, you know, it's like, why can't we just meet somewhere and talk about me?
You know, and and so we go down there and I started sponsoring guys again. And you know what? Cuz what happened was talking to these guys, you know, that are brand new, you start I started seeing how good things really were.
and and and then people start asking me questions and and then you know so sometimes I'll if I'm teaching I learn it better than if I'm being taught it you know and and uh and I don't and I don't want to be this phony again. So if a guy says, "Will you put me through the steps?" I'm like, "Yeah, uh, I'll give and you go home, you get down your big book," and you go, "Um, you know, and you know, and and you know, it's like, I'll get back with you tomorrow on how to do that stuff, and you go home, you're like, you know, so you know, I I really I' I've been in and out of the book the whole time." But the the point of all that is that I really am just have both feet in the middle of Alcoholics Anonymous now. And it's it's the happiest time I've ever been in my life.
I can't even I can't even tell you. I mean, how much I'm enjoying, you know, working with guys, working with the fellowship, you know, going, you know, and sponsoring guys has been the best thing, you know, that's that's ever happened. you know, that and then I I've been I've kind of got this new network of big book thumpers that we're always talking on the phone, you know, and uh um I just love talking about this program and what the book says about it and you know, what's your take on this and that and we do a lot of calling, you know, it's um it's, you know, it's it's just great stuff and and the more I study this book, the the more my I I keep getting deeper and understands and and sometimes, you know, it's got it's kind Funny.
I was telling Katie the other day, you know, it's got to be funny. These guys that I'm sponsoring, you know, sometimes, you know, I'm I'm 20 years sober and I'm going, "WHOA, look at that." You know, I mean, you know, you know, cuz I cuz every time I read the book, I see new stuff in it, you know, and I'll get a different understanding of of something in there and and it's uh sometimes I wonder if they're going, "What the hell's he been doing for 20 years?" you know, I I saw that the first time I looked at the page, but but I keep seeing new stuff and and I keep learning, you know, a deeper understanding of this program and I'm really I'm really into carrying the message to new guys these days. And uh if if you haven't tried it, um I recommend it.
The thing I never really understood was uh that clock says I'm late and that one says I got 3 minutes, so I'm going to go by that one. Uh uh the thing the thing I never understood though was you know that if if you've if you've had this spiritual experience as a result of working the steps the way that it doesn't matter whether I'm sober 3 months or 3 years or 30 years I can carry this message to somebody else. So you know the most beautiful thing has happened lately was I was a guy that I sponsored.
I'm sitting there up at at the club and a guy comes in and he's crazy and he said, "I need I need to, you know, talk to somebody about this program and I said, "You need to talk to somebody that has worked this program page by page out of this book." And I happen to know that this guy has done it cuz I did it with him. And then, you know, being able to have somebody that I sponsor work with a new guy is one of the coolest things I've ever seen, you know, because uh then you're you're saving two lives, you know, at the same time. and and uh I have figured out that I can't um I can't have more than about three or four guys in the first nine steps or I just got to quit my job, you know.
So um so so it's it's good to be able to, you know, move it around. But I mean the the that's the I mean that's the short I stayed drunker longer than I meant to tonight. But I uh um I guess you know that's that's the biggest thing I'd have report and I'm starting to have new understandings about about a lot of stuff.
You know I used to you know see when a new guy would come in um we would give him our phone numbers and and say uh you know go to 90 meetings in 90 days or some something like that. But I forget what it's like to be that day one. That guy that's coming in that first day and just being able to walk in the door and um take a chair is a monumental effort.
And to expect that guy to be able to pick out a spot, you know, they can't find the bathroom, you know. So So the decision of who's going to be their sponsor, I think it's too big of a decision to be left up to a newcomer, you know. So, I when when when I see a new guy come in, if nobody else jumps on him, I'll take him, you know, and and uh it's it's it's been amazing to see how uh how that effect takes place, you know.
One guy gets sober, he works with another guy. It's just it's, you know, I am I'm in love with Alcoholics Anonymous. I I uh I've I've always been in love with it, but I just um the past few years have really been awesome, you know, and if if if all I could say, the short version I'd say would be work the steps the way they are in the book so you can work with other guys and show them how to work the steps the way we are in the book if you you know, and what Big Book Barbie said to me that night was true.
You know, if you can't give it away if you don't have it. So, I uh there's plenty of people around that'll show you. Um, I wish I had more time to talk about how it is now cuz it life is really awesome.
But, um, on the 12th step on page, you know, I was glad that Kim said that those were the ninth step promises that she read because this book makes promises to me if I do the actions that are laid out in this book. It makes promises to me of what's going to happen. And they're not just after the ninth step.
They're all over the place. And the one the ones I'd like to close with tonight are the 12step promises on page 100. It says, "Both you and the new man must walk day by day in the path of spiritual progress.
If you persist, remarkable things will happen. When we look back, we realize that the things which came to us when we put ourselves in God's hands were better than anything we could have planned. Follow the dictates of a higher power, and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world, no matter what your present circumstances.
Thank you for listening to me. I'm glad to be here tonight. Thank >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.
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