>> Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-sunrise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> >> When I first came into the rooms, I was blessed.

Um God blessed me by surrounding me with a group of men that were really into this book and really into this program. And um that let me know the difference between what I thought my problem was and what my problem really was. And therefore uh understand that what I thought was going to fix me wasn't, and that I needed something else.

And one of the things that they did um that my sponsor did early on was he turned me on to Chris. He gave me a couple of CDs of Chris uh speaking. And Chris's explanation of what this book says and what alcoholism is, he had just had a way of putting it that really made sense to me and it really was very clear and very simple.

And then um his explanation of what I needed to do and what the possibilities of the results of taking those actions would be, just got me really excited. He's a very exciting person. He's uh great great guy.

Um we just had a really nice dinner together and uh I want to introduce Chris Rhymer. >> Chris. >> >> I love it when they he's a great guy and he's really handsome and >> God.

>> No, you left it out conspicuously. I mean, I don't Good heavens. My name is Chris Rhymer.

I'm a very grateful recovered alcoholic. Also a recovered addict. I'm just going to mention that, throw it in at the top and let it go with that.

I uh I'm honored to be here. I I know a bunch of y'all in here and uh I've met before in trips to Atlanta and and uh and some I know from real seedy bars before that and so uh you know, that's just the nature of the beast and I'm I'm honored to get a chance to do this. I know uh uh there's some patients in here.

Do they call them patients here or clients? Patients? I work at a hospital in Texas, a big big treatment center down in Texas.

We we call them patients, too. Some places they get offended. They're clients and so I don't know what to tell you.

We're I'm just glad you're here. I guarantee you. So, I want to mention real quick, kind of get it into this uh as I always do um I don't know what we gosh, we got people from all walks of life in here and uh we all get here kind of the different routes.

I know we've got some little dope heads in here and I know we've got some little alcoholics and I know we've got some of y'all got here through the treatment centers and some of you got through here through judicial system, the courts and some of y'all just walked into an AA meeting and I I just got to tell you guys I long time ago, folks, I got sober November 13th, 1987. I'm I'll do the math for you. I'm a little better than 21 years sober and I a long time ago, I got tired of pissing people off from the podium.

I don't want to do that. I'm I know saying that I'm I'm going to I'm fixing to do that. But I'm But I'm going to try to crawfish out of it and not do that cuz I'm going to tell you guys all I want to do up here for I got you for about 45 minutes or so and I just I want to share my story.

I want to share what happened to me and and it can be light-years away from what happened to you and and it that's just okay. You don't have to agree with me. Why is it if I agree with you we're going to be friends.

If I don't agree with you we're not going to be friends. I mean that ain't how that works. And then this is open and roomy.

So I'm if some of the stuff I talk about kind of gets under your skin maybe you needed somebody to get under your skin. I don't know what to tell you. I'm not a big 12 and 12 fan but I was reading this today to a a a patient up at the hospital and and he wants to argue with everything.

I don't none of y'all are like this guy but this guy he always to argue with everything. He's only been in about six treatment centers and but he wants to tell me why this one's not going to work either. And so I want to just I'm going to mention AA's 12 steps are a group of principles spiritual in nature which if practiced as a way of life can expel the obsession to drink and enable the sufferer to become happily and usefully whole.

It's kind of like a little summation there of what this is about. And I know some people are ready to get sober and one of the things I see in treatment a lot is that we end up picking people too green. You know, we end up be kind of being in triage for folks.

You know, you get your your your butt on fire out there and then you come into treatment let the flames die down get you some rest eat a couple of Big Macs and you're ready to go get it again. You know, and it's like and some of you in here are going to do that. But But guys, I know that there's some of you in here men and women.

So there's some of you cats that are so done it's not even funny. I mean I I got on planes and I travel I 45 weekends out of the year I'm traveling someplace. Not cuz I like to travel, cuz every once in a while I'll come across somebody that's just flat done.

And and and I want to help you hear the solution to the problem. There's I introduce myself as a recovered alcoholic. And I know in treatment that sometimes it's kind of heresy, but my big book tells me to introduce myself as that.

I am a recovered alcoholic. For 21 years I haven't obsessed about alcohol or drugs. Guys, I so want you to be there.

I I don't care what you do with the rest of your life, guys. Whatever you're going to do it's going to be better if you're not fighting the obsession to drink and drug. There's a way out in which we can absolutely agree.

AA, the 12 steps, works for everyone. Make sense? I don't care what this Any of you guys watch on CNN?

They got this little book, 24.95 from this idiot out in California. You can get it. I got it.

I I coughed up the 24.95 cuz I wanted to find out what it is. I've been I've hell I've been I've been working a program for 21 years. Who knew all I had to do was buy a stupid book.

Rock 24.95 it'll tell you how to get well. And I got to tell you guys, a lot of people are getting well reading that book. A lot of hard drinkers, a lot of party animals are getting well reading that book.

The problem is it doesn't seem to do much for alcoholism and drug addiction. Which is the problem. Folks, if alcohol's your problem, this place that you're in here right now, this treatment center, will fix your problem.

Cuz they'll get you detoxed, and they'll patch you on a little button send you out of here. If alcohol's your problem, you're fixing to get well. If alcoholism's your problem, the stuff's fixing to hit the fan.

About the time you get this stuff cleared from your system, now you got to deal with the mental obsession. It's going to come back and haunt you forever. That's all I want to talk to you guys about is the way out.

I was talking to somebody the other day who was introduced myself as a chronic relapser. He I hate that term. I I hate that expression.

I don't know what to tell you, folks. That's what I am. I'm a cat that could not not drink.

I can quit on a dime, but I can't stay quit. You'll follow? I'm I'm I had to quit for a month for her.

I'm going to tell you right now. >> >> I just told you I wouldn't. I'm just what I know me.

I know me. A month and 3 days, she's out on her ass. I can tell you that.

This is This is what alcoholism and drug addiction is about, guys. There's a lot of people, most of the people out there can take this stuff or leave it alone. Hard drinkers, moderate drinkers.

How many we I mean my gosh. I was out on a date one night did some cocaine with an old girl. She said, "Oh, that was wonderful.

Oh my gosh, I still can't feel my face. Let's do that again sometime." And I said, "Hot damn, like now." You know, it's just She She No, that's not what she meant, you know, and it's like it's the same with the drinking, you know, you go out and have a couple of cu- My little sister, I have an identical twin brother that's an alcoholic. His name is Myers and some of you all heard him and and he and I caught that little old genetic bullet.

Alcoholism and drug addiction, guys, is genetic. You know what I mean? If If you're still sitting here blaming that bad thing for your drinking, you need to come up with a new line because it's not working anymore.

We know that it's genetic in nature, but I'm bummed. Most of us can look up that old family tree and find one or two of little knuckleheads fall out of the top and that's just the way it is. But my twin brother caught the bullet with me and I got a little sister that didn't.

We We spent most of the 21 years trying to turn her into an alcoholic because we just thought it'd be so much fun having the three little guys, you know, she just Lisa, drink up. You know, she and she'll have a couple of drinks she says and then she'll stop. Just like in mid-drink and says, "No, thank you.

Starting to feel it." >> >> "Me, too. Now, let's go." Look Look Now, let's go now. You know, let's go.

And she And she says, "No, you don't understand. I don't like the way that makes me feel." And I'm just like, "Shh, don't don't say that out loud. Don't I've got a reputation to uphold here." Yeah, she She just can't.

I've seen her drink all her life. She has one or two little glasses of wine if she likes it and she sets it down and that's it. Given sufficient reason, she can stop.

Leave it alone altogether. My twin brother and I couldn't do that. And I I I just Oh, I was in the food business.

We were talking at dinner with Jerry and some of the guys in the business and and uh I was a a wanted to be a chef all my life and uh uh I'm not so sure cuz I like to cook or cuz I like to drink and get away with it cuz you know, in the kitchens they just as long as you showed up and did the job, they didn't care what you did. They'd just come on. And um in fact, I I lived here in Atlanta for a short period of time in the '70s at Omni when we opened up Omni International Hotel and and I worked in the kitchens there and uh uh Loved that business.

Loved the industry and and eventually couldn't work in the industry because I was drinking too much and uh I remember uh telling my dad one time he said, "You know, your drinking's kind of freaking us out a little bit." And And he was a drunk and he knew what one looked like and he said, "You know, you you kind of need He said I I said, "Dad, if it ever starts affecting my career, I'll quit. Don't worry about that." And uh it did. And I didn't.

Make sense? I get crazy with people that think that this is willpower or a behavioral problem. We see it in treatment all the time.

You know, if you loved your kids, you'd quit. If you If you If you you loved your Why don't you bite me? That's like going up to somebody that's lactose intolerant and says, "You know, buddy, if you really loved me, you'd drink that milkshake." It's like, "What?

What?" We wouldn't even consider doing that, but we do it with alcoholics and drug addicts all the time. Drives me absolutely nuts. I uh I couldn't stop drinking, folks.

And uh I'm starting to see a doctor because I know that there's some problems um uh I'm seeing shrinks, like psychiatrist doctors. I'm nuts. And uh And I And I don't understand cuz I pull all my willpower together and I'm going to quit for her or for the job or for something.

And I And I think I can manage it this time and I could put together a few weeks and then I then I I drink again. And Well, there's got to be a reason. So, I'm seeing the shrinks.

And Of course, they're all agreeing with me, "Chris, you're you're drinking because you're clinically depressed. You're And I It makes perfect sense to me. I says, "Oh my gosh, when I drink, I'm not depressed." And And so, I That's Here's an antidepressant, brand new on the market.

I did the test studies on most of the antidepressants that you little kids, you punks, are taking now. That you can thank me for. Does Shh.

We were laughing with Larry one time. There used to be an antidepressant suppository. Didn't last too long.

Didn't last too long out there, but it was a hoot taking. I got to tell you, it was Y'all think I'm kidding. I'm taking antidepressants by the handfuls, folks.

And this is And then you go to another doctor, "Chris, you're not uh depressed. It's not that. It's just you're bipolar.

You're a little high-strung. We're going to give you these medications that'll that'll help you with this. I'm taking that and the antidepressants.

You got adult attention deficit disorder. You got that. And I'm taking this and I'm taking Guys, I'm going to tell you I spent most of my life so medicated.

I I didn't have to worry about gaining any weight cuz I couldn't eat. You know, you just you have to be actually hold food in your mouth and swallow before that and I'm just huh I'm just a mess. Doctor prescribed medications right now is what we're seeing in our hospital more than anything else.

It freaks me out what's coming towards us. This this pill epidemic that's hitting this country is going to make make the crack epidemic look like kids play. And it's worse.

It's nastier. It takes longer to detox from and it's it's it's going to be horrible. Any of you guys that are chipping with that stuff, chip something else.

Cuz it's going to be nasty. Doctors ain't fixing me. And I'm going nuts.

And I got married cuz that was going to fix me. Put some roots down. Up in North Texas and um I we have a little domestic disturbance and a and a cops Do you know how that goes?

And I ended up back in therapy with a guy and he's this low-rung counselor and and he just said, "Chris, I don't know about all this other stuff. I have all these disorders. You all follow?

Your clinical this, your bi- that, your all of it." He said, "I don't know anybody any of this. I can tell you by looking at your chart you're a drunk." Which I was absolutely offended to hear. You all follow?

It's Borderline schizophrenia will get you laid. You know that? A drunk will get you asked to leave the premises.

I don't know what that's about. So I had a little young guys come to the to our hospital. It's all I'm a drug addict.

I'm a drug addict. No, looking at your chart looks to me like you're an alcoholic. I am a drug addict.

It just sounds cooler to be a drug addict than an alcoholic. They come back 6 months later and I'm an alcoholic. Then after they're doing a little research.

I uh I got my uh uh I went to my first AA meeting in the early 80s, folks, and and uh And I didn't have any problem with it. I mean, I bring it on. Anything to stop doing what I'm doing.

You know how this thing works. If you're an alcoholic, I've got this physical phenomena called craving. When I put the crap in my body, I can't guarantee how much I'm going to drink.

And then you got this little middle obsession thing that tells me that you can put the first one in your body. So, it's kind of a little round and round like a you know, squirrel cage chasing your tail. It's like my mind keeps telling me I can put it in my body, my body knows it can't, and keeps Okay.

But underneath all, we've got this little thing called a spiritual malady. Now, I want some of you guys that been around the fellowship, you might not may or may not know that expression. The book talks about it.

The spiritual illness. And and it's something that seems to be avoided in in hospitals and in uh especially in Alcoholics Anonymous. Nobody wants to talk about it.

The spiritual malady is the internal condition that makes me nuts. The spiritual malady is my proof that that alcohol is not the problem. This malady looks like this.

I'm irritable, restless, and discontent. Pretend this is the alcohol. When I stop drinking, no bad beer.

No more alcohol. What happens is internally starts to come back the depression and the low self-esteem and the feeling of uselessness and the fearfulness and the anxiety. You with us?

This is in the big book. This is what it talks about. This internal discomfort is why we always end up going back.

You want to blame mama, you want to blame the job, you want to blame all this other happy horse hockey. That all exacerbates the problem, but it's not causing the problem. How many of you guys in this room play with this?

How many of you guys drank and drugged when life was great? Raise your hand. All the hands up.

How many of you drank and drugged when life was crap? Good job. Come on.

Yeah, yeah. Cuz if you're just drinking cuz you got a bad job, quit the damn job. Y'all understand that?

Good great relationship. Crappy relationship. The same hands.

We could do this all day long. You with us? The poor therapists are running over working overtime trying to figure out what's causing me to drink.

If if something out there is causing me to drink, I'm not an alcoholic. Y'all need to get that straight right now. Make sense?

That's heresy in here. Somebody's going to get pissed. Guys, alcoholism and drug addiction is not causal.

Why do we have so many wealthy people in recovery? You with us? Good church people in recovery.

Good people with lots of well good upbringing. We want to focus on the little bad stuff, but that's not what causes There's no more drinking in that than there is in that. This internal condition, the spiritual malady, guys, that's what's kicking our ass.

And so I come to AA for the first time and the guy says, "Do you got a problem with alcohol?" It's the closest anybody for 7 years ever came to qualifying me as an alcoholic and an addict. They didn't even do it in treatment. You know how they qualified me going into treatment in the '80s?

It's not like that now. It's gets different now. In the '80s, this is how they qualified you.

You got any insurance? Yeah? Welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous.

Jesus. Unbelievable what we did to people back then. I was a part of the industry, guys.

I'm telling you. I know exactly what we did. I went in and he said, "Do you got a problem with alcohol?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Welcome." And we sat down and then it's the last we talked about alcoholism for an hour.

We talked about this lady's was problem with her husband and we talked about her husband's problem. Dig? I said, "Shit, I don't know.

Maybe I missed something, but we didn't talk about anything My wife asked me. She said, "What?" Went back the next night. You with us?

Well, the lady was gone so we didn't have a problem to talk about there. So we went around the room and tried to scare the bejesus out of Chris Raymond. Everybody told their little war stories.

Guys, I'm going to tell you I talk all over the world and we talk about this and I know some of you get grindy cuz you like to tell war stories and you love to fix people's problems cuz you haven't You with us? It just makes you feel useful. I'm going to tell you something, folks.

We've gotten so far off the page it's not even funny in our fellowships because Alcoholics Anonymous is not a therapy group and it's not time to be talking about your chicken day. We just read it in the book. Alcoholics Anonymous is a spiritual program of action.

We're going to work some steps. We're going to get connected spiritually and we're going to have a spiritual experience and the obsession to drink and drugs is going to go away and then we're going to turn around and go help somebody else. Y'all cool with that?

Cuz that's what it's supposed to be. Get a little outside myself there a little bit. Yeah.

Cuz I'm sick and tired of watching our fellowships get watered down by a bunch of well-meaning people that should know better and don't. I spit Guys, I sit in front of a computer all day long and I get emails from all over the world. You know what they hate about AA?

War stories and all the pissing and moaning about your day. Do you need to tell a war story? You better believe it in the 12-step call.

You're having trouble staying sober. I'm going to slide up next to you. I need to tell you some stories about myself and you're going to share some stories about yourself and I'm going to get your confidence and then I'm going to hook you into this program.

I'm going to I'm going to sell you on this idea of the spiritual experience, but I'm not going to be able to do that till we tell a story or two or three. You with us? Do I need talk about my day?

You damn right. It's called sponsorship. It's called good therapy.

It's called having some friends. But I'll be damned if I will sit up here and say it's okay for you to come into a meeting and say anything you want. And anybody here wants to argue about that afterwards, you can just come on up and we can take care of it now.

Got a little fried pie coming in the back door and all he wants to know is, "Can I wake up anytime soon and not obsess about alcohol and drugs? Can I get well from this? Is it possible to ever recover?" But we're not going to get time to do that because we're too busy talking about your stupid weed eater one more time.

I tell you where we got off the page. It's a little thing called a grapevine article in the late late '60s, early '70s. There was a series of articles and it talked about turning these wonderful meetings that we were having called step studies.

We're going to turn some of these meetings into open discussion meetings. And that's what we did. Open discussion, hell.

Y'all follow? Guys, it's like triage. You get here to this fellowship and your butt's coming undone.

We need to get you connected spiritually so that you can get well. And then you can turn around and help somebody else. But if we waste your time trying to fix your day, you're not ever going to depend on God.

You're going to start depending on the group. Make sense? Guys, go find a therapist.

Go find a friend. Let's all go to Denny's and talk about the weed eater. It's going to be a short conversation.

A lot of misinformation out there. Guys, I'm in AA for 7 years and can't get sober and I'm in and out and I I am proof positive that meeting makers don't make it. Like so many of y'all in this room.

90 meetings in 90 days. Just don't drink and go to meetings. Everything's going to be okay.

>> >> You know, again, I'm going to say this again. They might be. If you happen to be one of those guys that could get sober reading that idiot's book out in California, you might be able to do that.

I know people that have just come to meetings. I've never worked any steps and I've been sober for 50 years. Rock on.

What? You're a a loser. Absolute loser.

The fellowship, the love got me sober. You are not one of us. You are not an alcoholic.

If love was going to get me sober, folks, I had no no no short supply of it. Counselors loved me. My family loved me.

You with me? Women loved me. I got to wonder where the counselors are sitting cuz every eye in here is over here in these count Whoever Where's the counselors in here?

Cuz y'all are getting the bee lines. Everybody I'm stirring up a hornet's nest for you. I'm sure sorry.

>> >> You'll earn your living tomorrow. Hey. >> >> Here's what a misconception looks like, friends.

But here's what a misconcept Y'all know what a misconception is? Misconception is that I can look at something and see something and believe it's that. But be completely wrong.

You with us? How many of you guys have ever done that in a bar? She'll go out with me.

>> >> And then find out when hell freezes over, she might go out with you. Y'all Y'all understand that? It's a misconception.

And this is why I get just get just rabid from the podium sometimes and I get I get cranky in treatment centers sometimes when we're when we're teaching so much stuff that's disguised as recovery and is not. Treatment centers are the best, are the bomb. They can teach you how One, they can detox you with the right way, safe way, and then they can teach you some cool things in early sobriety that'll keep you on the straight and narrow.

But a A center's not going to fix your problem. A treatment center will not fix your problem. The spiritual experience, get you connected spiritually, and that thing called God, whatever we believe is God, fixes the problem.

Make sense? Well, I don't believe in God. Well, would you be willing to work the steps anyway?

Cuz if you do, you're going to believe in something. I don't care what you call it. No, I won't believe in God.

I don't believe in spirituality. I don't believe I'm not willing to believe in any of that. Rock on.

There's this book for $24.95. Cuz here's what we've done in our fellowship. What we What we've done is we've gotten almost embarrassed We're We're almost apologetic about talking about God from the podium.

The higher power, we don't want to talk about it. At last resort, we're going to broach the topic. We're going to broach the subject.

What We only have one thing to sell in AA. It's the spiritual experience. Make sense?

Fifth tradition tells us You got the traditions up Ah. Right here. The fifth tradition tells us We've only got one primary purpose.

That's to carry the message to the alcoholic or the dope fiend that still suffers. You all follow? And subsequent of the other fellowships, that's what we're supposed to do.

Asked somebody the other day, "What's our primary purpose?" It's to share our experience, strength, and hope. No. Thank God it's not.

Guys, I got to tell you I've been so blessed by the fellowship of this program. I My Sitting in here talking Saw Larry when I walked in. We've known each other for years.

Just Just I'm Just the fellowship. I am so blessed by the people in these rooms and the stories they told me and the lives that you've shared and the information I've been able to glean from that. But guys, I'm going to tell you something.

The program of Alcoholics Anonymous is what saved my skinny little ass. By actually getting past my arrogance and my selfish and self-centeredness and actually doing some work with the 12 steps, I got spiritually connected. Fast forward 7 years, I can't stay sober.

I cannot do this. And uh I I'm working for my twin brother up in North Texas and I can't cook anymore and picked up a stack of returned checks and a 12-pack of beer and went to my little apartment and that my sister-in-law had to co-sign for me. You'll follow?

I'm unwrapping these returned checks. Bankrupted another checking account. I'm 35 years old and I'm broke again.

Sitting on the floor cuz my dope dealer's got my furniture. Probably still got him today. The bastard.

I Boy, I tell you, I don't know how to explain it, guys. I I'm I got about 40 lbs on me and it's all right here and I got a big full beard and I'm health is really bad and I'm puking blood. I can't stop drinking and I'm and I'm just crazy.

On top of all the medications I'm taking, doctor prescribed medications, I'm drinking like a son of a gun. And I'm doing a bunch of other outside issues and I am I am not well and I'm managing to go to work every day. I drive an old beat-up pickup truck and I um God, I'm just sad.

I'm just I'm I'm sick. I remember when I lived here in the mid-70s working for Omni and I I went to a park over here. I don't know where the park was.

Couldn't take it take it there today. I don't remember where it was, but I remember it was a Sunday afternoon and I didn't have to work and I had a 12-pack of beer and I'm sitting I had an old busted up Toyota and I'm sitting in that park and I'm watching all the families play with their kids with us. Dogs out there.

Typical Sunday afternoon. Families are out there having a good time and I'm sitting in that car figuring out where wonder where I could get a gun so I could finish this job now and get it over with cuz I know I'm never going to have a family and I'm never going to have a dog. I'm never going to have anything that those people are having.

I mean, it's not about just feeling sorry for myself. I'm so sick and tired of This is not who my dad raised. I didn't intend for this to to to be like this.

You mean you can make it all the excuses you want, rationalize until the cows come home why you ended up like this. The bottom line is the booze had everything to do with it. I can stop drinking for periods of time, but I don't get better.

I get worse and the voices start to come back and my head starts to scream and I have to I have to drink or off myself. I'm sitting in this apartment cold in November night up in North Texas and I um It's November uh the 12th. It was the the cold Thursday night and uh I heard a voice that night um as I'm eating those pills, I'm trying to commit suicide and I heard a voice that said, "Don't do this.

Go back to AA." And a couple of times I heard that voice that night and uh it wasn't like I thought, "You know, Chris, you probably ought to go give AA another shot." Cuz I didn't want to go give AA another shot. I'd been in it for 7 years. I'd picked up more desire chips.

If you had every desire chip, you know what I'm saying? You couldn't put them in my pockets tonight, the numbers I picked up. And I meant it every time.

Didn't understand because of the misconceptions. I'm going to say this and move real quick on the cuz I'm I'm I'm going to get well within 2 weeks of this suicide attempt. I go into AA and this guy over here would be saying, "You know, Chris, you really need to kind of get on this 12-step stuff cuz, you know, there's kind of a sense of urgency here." And uh he's got an old beat-up big book, you'll follow?

And so I'm kind of interested and he kind of flips it open and this lady over here is watching and he's and he's he's going like, "No." She catches me in the coffee bar, "Listen, stay away from that guy. Listen, what you need to do, buddy, is you just to just need to keep coming back." Cuz right now all you can manage to do is keep coming back. You follow?

Now, which am I going to listen to? This guy over here wants me to work the steps and this lady over here just wants me to keep coming back. Anybody in here, I love and respect you.

I'm going to tell you now, if the best you can come up with for one of these newcomers is keep coming back, shut up. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome.

You're welcome. No. >> >> You don't need to worry about the big book.

You just need to do this. You don't need to No, no, no. You haven't been sober long enough.

You can't share a meet. You can't make coffee. You can't go work with others.

You can't do jack. You just need to get your feet on the ground and everything's going to be okay. Me Y'all understand this?

And yet the big book says exactly opposite. Work with others. Help others.

Get out of your head. Go do some work. Make sense?

But nobody's telling me that cuz they're so they're tiptoeing around me trying to Oh my god, they're so concerned that I'm going to leave the fellowship. Jesus, guys, we only have one message. Work the steps.

Have a spiritual experience. Recover. Go help somebody else.

That's what we do. Jesus. You can't sponsor anybody till you've been sober a year.

God, where does it say that? Jesus, help us. Can't chair a meeting until you've been sober 6 Why?

Does it take a a freaking degree? Do you have to be a rocket scientist? Jesus.

I'm on a tear. Misconceptions, guys. I want to read something to you real quick.

Some of y'all are going to get Y'all like the Grapevine? I hate it. Okay, here.

The awareness that A- This is uh Grapevine's statement of purpose. I'm not knocking the Grapevine. Duh, of course I am.

The awareness that every AA member has an individual way of working the program permeates the pages of the Grapevine. Throughout its history, the magazine has been a forum for the varied and often divergent opinions of AAs around the world. In other words, do it any way you want.

You like make sense? Bill Wilson wrote great little book called AA Comes of Age. Unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our suggested 12 steps of recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant.

Drunk- Drunkenness and disintegration are not penalties inflicted by people in authority. They are the results of personal disobedience to spiritual principles. We must obey certain principles or we die.

You see? And we could do this all night long. Bill Wilson, rigid.

Come on, buddy. If you don't want to do this, you don't have to do this. Go away.

Have a nice life. But if you want to do this, you deserve to at least hear what the solution is. People come in here and they sit on their ass for 90 meetings and 90 days and they don't stay sober and then they come back to treatment in 6 months from now barely barely alive and say, "I tried AA, it didn't work." You didn't try jack.

All you did was come to some meetings. Make sense? It's like me going to a gym every two days never mind.

Y'all understand? It don't work. You mean you would I have to sweat?

I made myself sick that night and I lay down on the bed and passed out and the next day I I woke up the next morning I had to go to work and I called a doctor when I got to work and I got some doggie downers at lunch and I kept working cuz that's what we have to do. I'm living from paycheck to paycheck. Some of y'all in here know exactly what that's about.

You don't work, you live on the street and I've lived on the street, I've eaten out of dumpsters in Houston, Texas. Thank you, but no thank you. There's nothing much romantic about that.

And um Oh my gosh. I'm running late and it's 6:00 at night and I'm I was going to go to this meeting in a town close by where I used to date this old girl. I'm going to go see if I can chum up a friend and and or or a date and um I gone back to this other meeting.

I knew where it was and I went over cuz I was running late and I this guy that had 12 step me 3 years before had driven me by this meeting. He said, "See that room right there?" He said, "Yeah, that's that's where them AAers meet." And he said, "I'm going to tell you something, buddy. These AA guys, these ain't the little meeting maker maker kind of guys." He says, "If you don't want to like actually do the work, don't go to this meeting cuz they're kind of militant.

You follow?" And of course I'm rolling my eyes like like thanks for the warning. I mean cuz like I'm never going to darken that door. You all follow?

I'm dying of alcoholism, untreated alcoholism. It's killing me. I'm I'm coming apart at the seams.

I'm less than 24 hours away from a suicide attempt. Not just this I think I need to commit suicide. I mean a bonafide I'm going to die suicide attempt.

And here I am arguing with myself less than 24 hours later. My ego is rebuilt to such a point that I'm I'm judging this group. I'm not going to go in that group, that big book thumper group.

You follow? You know how God works though, but I'm coming apart of the seams. I'm detoxing like a big dog and I says, "Well, I'm going to go and get this over with and then I'm going to go on home and chill out for a while." And so I went to this 6:00 meeting and I walked in the back door and it was one of these old long shot meetings with 6-ft tables down the middle, you know the kind of cigarette It's back in the day, guys.

Y'all remember that day? Some of y'all don't even rem- We could smoke in meetings back back in the day and back in the day and when we and we all did. There was six or seven cigarettes out of our mouths and we were We just messed it up for the new guys coming in.

If we'd all smoked one, we'd still be smoking in these damn meetings, but we ruined it for you guys. I'm sure sorry, but It was good It was good while it lasted, huh? And the ceiling's dropping.

But I walked into this meeting, guys, and sure enough I'm looking and everybody's got a big book and I don't have a big book. You with me? So I'm feeling self-conscious and they're laughing and I know they're laughing at me and I'm instinctive I'm checking my zipper and I I got this Some of y'all might not have noticed that I have a a black eye patch.

I wear this eye patch and You know, I wasn't on this in this building 10 minutes and somebody came up and says, "Ooh, can I see your eye?" What is What I says, "Can I see YOUR TITS?" >> >> WHAT IS THAT? WHY WOULD YOU ask somebody that? It just takes the breath away.

I don't know. But I'm sitting there and I've got this I'm just kidding guys. I'm sorry.

That was inappropriate. And I'm sitting there like this I walk It was. And I'm walking into this room like this and I get and it's like you never know with me if there's I'm wearing an eye patch or an ear muff, you know, cuz it's it's like it's always sliding around crooked, you know, and I got this big full beard and I mean I am a mess guys.

I'm so self-conscious. You everybody's laughing. I know they're laughing at me and I say I'm not I back out.

I said I can't do this. I get about halfway in and I stop and I back up and I stepped on this girl's foot. This little girl who got in between me and the door and she hooked her finger in my belt loop.

I'm going to tell you guys in all sincerity she was 19 years old and she was a very nice girl and she was a member of her home group of Alcoholics Anonymous and she wasn't off in some little young adult meeting. She was in an AA meeting with the rest of us knuckleheads. If it hadn't been for this little 19-year-old girl, I'd have been dead.

Make sense? Old boy like you'd snuck his finger in my belt loop, you'd have been dead, you know. And I'd have been in jail, you know, but I tell you but I wouldn't have been sober.

But this little girl she took the breath away. I mean I think God knew what he was doing. I'm in like what the hell?

And I and I sat down and she got me a cup of coffee and some paper towels and we went off to the races. The chairperson, listen, I got to tell you the chairperson seated me up in North Texas for about 10 years and uh he was 10 years sober. I'd been up there about 7 years.

But he did something I have haven't seen much of even to this day. The chairperson took charge of the meeting. Ah, I know it's hard to believe.

He didn't have any of this well, this is your meeting. Who's got the problem? There was a little guy that was obviously detoxing in this AA meeting.

He He the history. It wasn't everybody's meeting. It was my meeting.

Y'all understand this? And he instructed the room what to do. He said, "Buddy, we got a newcomer.

Guys, let's don't tell any more stupid war stories. This guy knows how to drink. He's drank more than most of you guys.

Haha, haha, you know?" And then he said, "Let's tell him what our lives are like today as a result of working the steps." Talking about getting my attention. I hear people all the time, "I don't remember my first meeting." I remember that meeting. I caught my attention.

No war stories, no pissing and moaning, nobody shoving me out of the way to talk about their grandkids, just straightforward, "Here, buddy, let me tell you point-blank what happened to me." Getting credit cards back, buying houses, getting going back to school, getting some artwork, doing the cool things they've always wanted to do. Y'all follow? Man, they Talking about pulling somebody with a vision.

Why is it that that's such an anomaly in our own fellowship? This is what we're supposed to be doing. Life is great.

Sobriety is a hoot. Why don't we talk about that instead of trying to be junior therapists and fixing everybody's stupid problems? Life is good.

But I'm less than 24 hours away from a suicide attempt and I think life sucks and I'm scared to death and I don't have a clue how to do this. And they went around and told me how to do it. They didn't get long-winded.

They didn't talk about stuff I couldn't understand. They talked about the basics. That's where God meets us, every single one of us in this room.

That's where God meets us. He's not going to leave us there. They're going to pull us with a vision.

The end of the meeting, I'm in and I'm like, "Whoa." This old geezer at the in the meeting he says, "Buddy, are you done?" He says, "I got to ask you the question. You picked up a desire chip, we've all applauded, hugged your neck. I got to ask you because the book asked me to ask you, are you done?" Well, one day at a time.

That's what I thought. Got his coffee and left the room. Uh, wait.

What? Wrong answer. Remember I told you about misconceptions?

Guys, if you need that parlor trick to stay sober, go ahead. But the big book says we live life one day at a time. He said, "Chris, buddy, I know you don't know how to stay sober and on a daily basis we're going to get what we need from God.

We're going to show you how to get the same thing. We're going to show you how to stay sober. You got a daily reprieve, but it starts with a freaking commitment.

Are you done? Are you willing to go to any length? Everybody that comes into the hospital where I work, they're all ready.

You can go down to special care unit down there where they're all detoxing and ask There was 20 of them there right now. I can go wake them all up and ask them, "Buddy, are you ready to do this?" I absolutely. I'm ready to go to any length to get sober.

You with me? Right up into the point it starts to get uncomfortable. Then I'm going to tell you to kiss my ass.

Y'all understand it? Guys, the 12 steps are going to ask you to do some stuff you don't want to do. Like rely on somebody to help you stay sober.

First off. If you'll commit, it'll be easier for you to get through to that spot. You think it's going to be easy?

It's not. It's going to be confusing. You're going to have to feel uncomfortable.

People are going to ask you to do stuff you don't want to do. It's just like what happens in this hospital. I guarantee you they're asking you to do things and look at things that you don't want to look at.

There's a few of you that will look at it. You're the ones that are going to stay sober. The rest of you, you're just going to put it off until next time.

I'm sure hoping you make this one stick. Let me tell you what happened. The next day they were on my doorstep and they came back and they got me and we went back up and we went to a meeting and they qualified me again.

They made sure that I understood what it was to be an alcoholic and yes, I qualified for that and about a dozen other fellowships. And they got real straight about this. Says, are you ready to do some stuff, some work?

And I said, yes. You got a problem with God? No.

They explained the third step prayer. We got on our knees and did a third step prayer. Day two.

We went to lunch, came back. They gave me a notebook. Says, here, while you're home detoxing, why don't you start writing the people you're pissed at?

Called a fourth step. Oh my God, I can't do that. I'm not I can't start my fourth step till I've been sober six months.

You're going to die. I got this garbage I'm going to tell you if the hospital wants you to wait that long, you do that. Rock on.

They know best. But the big book says, fearless and thorough from the very start. Two weeks in, I've got a completed fourth step.

I'm ready to dump a fifth step and I'm sitting on the tailgate of my truck and it dawns on me that the obsession to drink is gone. The the the the obsession to use is completely gone and has never returned since. As a direct result of what?

Doing the work. Working the steps, getting off my butt. Guys, they had me answering the phone.

They had me chairing the meeting. God, I I've told it a million times. You know why I wouldn't chair a meeting for seven years?

Cuz I'm afraid I'm going to screw it up. And this old guy got next to me and said, Chris, we're going to chair a meeting, you and me. And he says, I'm going to show you how to do it.

I'm going to walk you through it. You with me? And they showed me how to chair my first meeting.

I'm in there a week and I'm chairing a meeting. You follow? This is not a therapy session.

All I'm doing is being of service. I'm reading a few things, asking somebody to close the prayer out. Can make sense?

Make some coffee. Vacuum the floor. Participate.

Guys, you find a job in Alcoholics Anonymous and you'll stay. You sit on the peripheria, you're going to die. The obsession's going to come back and you're going to use.

You won't need a reason. You have lost the power of choice and drink. Read page 24, it tells you.

The insanity will return and you'll be off to the races again. Make sense? Man, why do I do this?

Why do I travel? Most of you in here rolling your eyes, you think this is so much Why do I do this? Because there's a handful of you that won't think that.

There's a handful of you that are so tired of relapsing and spending money that you don't have on treatment. You'll follow? That you're going to do what somebody asked you to do.

Follow some instructions. Do what the do what your case manager has asked you to do here. Follow the rules.

Just The first thing you got to have in order to get sober is the ability to be honest. And that's all we're asking anybody to do. Do what they ask you to do.

Make sense? Do what they ask you to do. You're not willing to do that?

Go away. Two weeks in, I have a spiritual experience and the obsession to use lifts. Guys, I got to tell you, I ain't living off the spiritual experience I had 21 years ago.

I'm living off current spiritual experiences. I got a sponsor. I kept that sponsor till he went back out again for God's sakes and I got me another sponsor.

And that's how that works. I outgrew one of them and I got That's how this works. I sponsor a whole bunch of guys today.

I got 30 guys I sponsor and love every one of them. Y'all follow? Don't sponsor them all at once.

My job as a sponsor is to get you through the work. Make sense? God's got your back.

I don't have to take you on a raise. Well, should I go out with that girl or not? Uh who what do I look like?

I don't care. Y'all understand? It's another misconception.

I'm going to come into AA and they're going to take over my life. Rubbish. We're going to show you how to have a spiritual experience that'll change your life.

Let me tell you something real quick and I'll let you guys go. I got I got was talking to some cats earlier about this. We've been laughing about it.

I uh I guess it's just cuz I'm getting older. Some of the old geezers in this fellowship I honor and respect. I I owe so much to the people that came before.

Y'all realize that in 1935 when Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob started this, most of us were in in ending up in insane asylums where we died horrible deaths. Most of those deaths at the time were were at our own hands because because you took away the alcohol and the dope but you didn't do anything for the spiritual malady and we ended up stewing in our own juices until we couldn't stand it and then offed ourselves.

It was absolutely tragic to watch. The early guys in Alcoholics Anonymous, they spent so many so much time 4 years before the book actually was published and how many hundreds of people had to die before they worked this out. I mean, a lot of mistakes were made doing the 12 steps and the 12 traditions and they'd written it down for us and all we got to do is just stop being so selfish and arrogant and just follow the damn directions in the book and the miracle takes place.

Everybody wants to come up and explain why this won't work but you they're the ones that are not even doing the work. You want to have a spiritual experience? You're not going to have it sitting on your ass.

You're going to have it by doing something. Make sense? I went on this bike ride one time.

I was used to be competitive cyclist and uh was terrible at it. I had absolutely zero talent for it, but but I enjoyed it a lot. And eventually, if you're a cyclist, you go on a 100-mi ride.

And so, went with these guys, and there was about 20 of us, and we set out. We knew it was going to get cold, so we had some cold weather gear we were going to put on. Sure enough, we got out about 40 mi out, and it and it got colder than hell.

This was not a little cold snap that we thought it was going to be. This was This was ice cold. We're 40 mi out in the sticks.

You'll follow? And so, there's a bunch of people that turned around and went back, went sideways. And then there was a small percentage of us that were like 10 10 of us.

We ended up in this little town, and we stopped at this gas station, and we all looked at each other, and we all made a decision. We're We're either going to go on and finish this, or we're going to turn around and go back. What's it going to be?

And we said, "Still full of piss and vinegar, let's go on. Let's try it." We got out there, and it got really, really, really lousy. You're with us?

Guys, this ride was supposed to take us a few hours, and it was after dark. It was pushing 9:00 at night. And um And those 10 people that were going to go on that ride, everybody jumped in there and did exactly what they were supposed to do and they were trained to do.

There were guys out there that had cycled for years that were very, very accomplished cyclists. And they got around us that were beginners, basically, novices. And they would literally push us up these hills.

You'll follow? Cuz we had to get home. We couldn't stay out there.

We'd die. Literally, with hypothermia. We had to get home.

And the one There was one guy that had a light on the back. He rode at night. When he That's how he trained.

It Cuz only time he He got behind us, and he followed so that the cars were They couldn't see us. We were covered in mud. You couldn't see the reflective stuff we were wearing.

This guy got behind us. Everybody took turns leading in the front, even the little guys like us. And and about 9:00 that night, it must have been after 9:30 or 10:00, we pulled into where we started that morning.

100 miles on the odometer. And we all got off our bikes and put them up, went inside, and took a shower, got in a hot tub. And we just sat there.

And nobody talked, and nobody said a thing. And everybody in the place had tears in their eyes. Because we weren't supposed to be able to do that.

And we did it. I don't stay sober by myself. I stay sober on the backs of men and women that have come before me that taught me that this was about responsibility.

This was about honesty, and this was about doing what you say you're going to do. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. They loved me enough to tell me the truth, and they weren't going to candy-coat this for my sensitive little chicken-shit feelings.

Make sense? Alcoholism and drug addiction is fatal, folks. It kills more people than cancer and AIDS combined.

And that's why I'm saying we need this old geezer that I when I got sober his name was ML, and he was about 30 years sober, 28 years when I got sober, a long time. And he was washing coffee cups in the back, and I helped him and stayed late. You know when these clubs they've turned out all the lights, and it's just the sink in there, and he's washing, and I'm handing him the stuff, and we're visiting about AA and stuff.

And he turns around, and he's got these old glasses, and he wipes them off, and he says, "Chris, I got to tell you." And I'm noticing these tears in his eyes. And I'm noticing what's going on. I said, "Buddy, are you okay?" He said, "Buddy, I got to just got to tell you, I'm so grateful that you're here." Cuz we need you.

It caught me off guard cuz nobody needed me to do jack. You know what I mean? The only thing anybody ever needed me to do was stay the hell away.

That's the truth. And I remember all my life being feeling of uselessness. It's one of the symptoms of untreated alcoholism.

And this old geezer sitting over there with tears in his eyes saying, "We need you." I'm 6 months sober. I'm not speaking from the podium. I'm not cheering with me.

I'm not doing all this other stuff. We need you. Whatever parts you can do." And that's all I got to say, guys.

Every time I share from the podium, I say the same dead gum thing. You guys in here, you keep thinking that you're not needed. That there's time before you can be useful.

And I got to tell you that's nonsense. You guys that are sitting in this room that have some time under your belt. I got to tell you this first off.

Thank you very much for staying in these trenches, men and women both, for staying. You've got some time, you didn't relapse, you've stayed so that you can pull the rest of us down. Make sense?

You young people sitting in here, I'm going to tell you guys we need you. Stop listening to this that you can't participate and that you can't help anybody cuz you don't have enough sobriety under your belt. If you believe that, you're going to die.

Cuz if you don't start giving back, you're not going to be able to keep what you got. Hospitals like this can get you on good solid ground, but you're not going to stay there till you give back. We need every young adult in here.

Every black person in here. Every gay person in here. We need you.

I wish everybody was going to hear the message from me. I travel a lot. I'm I I I There's a certain percentage of people that will My abrasiveness will will crack your egg.

And some of you in here, you need to be very gently spoon-fed this program. The book says that every single one of us in here or in our own way are going to transmit the same message. Y'all understand?

This is the This is the medicine. Some of us will gulp it, some of us will sip it, but the medicine's the same. I think there's a dark side out there that would like to have nothing better than to have every single one of us sitting in here questioning whether or not we can be useful or not.

These guys that bring the hat the the meetings out here, slide up next to them and ask them what you can do to be of service. Chair meeting, set the chairs up, break the chairs down. You're going to do something to give back or you're going to go away.

And I got to tell you, we need every dadgum one of you. That was the greatest thing that man ever told me and it kept me in this fellowship for 21 years. We need you guys is light-years away from keep coming back.

Y'all understand that? We want you to keep coming back, but we want you to be a part of our ride. I didn't bond with every cyclist I ever came across and I don't bond with everybody in AA.

Just cuz you're in AA doesn't mean we're brothers. Let me watch you chair that meeting. Let me watch you go out of your way to help that little guy in the back that's coming unglued.

Then we're brothers. Thank you so much for asking me. Thank you.

>> >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.

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