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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. Hi everybody. I'm in a recovered alcoholic named Reed Martin.

>> Can you hear me? Okay. >> If the speakers blow out on this thing, don't worry.

I'll keep talking. Um, thank you very much. Uh, I have had a wonderful time out here.

This this is one of the greatest events I have I've been to. Um, it was so well organized. These things are hard to put together.

I'm I do a little bit of of work in the service area back home and I'm the got roped into being the DCM of my district, the largest district in three states. And we get a whole lot of people who are ready to sign up and help and work on something like this. And about a week before, me and the other guy have about had all we can take.

And um but that isn't what happened here. everybody uh kept doing things and and I'm just um I'm just really really impressed. It all what all worked out beautifully.

It's it's great. Um my soriety date is May the 3rd uh 2001. It was a Thursday.

Uh the first Thursday in May happens to be the National Day of Prayer. And in 2001 it was the 50th anniversary of the National Day of Prayer. I think that's real important uh the self-centerness part because see It took the whole United States praying at the same time to get me to go to a meeting.

And I if if you were one of them, I want to say thank you cuz uh it it has made a difference. I picked up that ship and haven't looked back. Um, I I've met so many people out here and after talking to you guys and hearing from some of y'all, I almost wonder why I'm even here.

Uh, you know, other places I've been and and even where I'm from, there's a lot of different things going on in Alcoholics Anonymous these days. There's a lot of different understandings and misunderstandings and behaviors of of what what the program is and what it's not and how we do it and how we do it wrong or how we do it right and and here it's just everybody's so like-minded. So, we're going to spend about an hour and we're going to talk about a bunch of things we all agree about.

And uh and and that's about it. Um somebody who wasn't mentioned I have to call on um is Rick Wilson right here. And uh Rick called me up about I don't know 6 months ago and said uh what are you doing in September?

And I said well I'm uh he said I don't care. Good. Uh I need you to come come see us.

Can you come? And uh I've got a new best friend here in Ventura County. And if you don't know Rick, you should you should get to know him.

And I don't mean at a meeting where everybody's watching cuz he'll have to you know uh put on that thing. But you get it. Pull him aside.

pull them aside somewhere and and and do that one alcoholic with another thing and and you'll you'll have a new friend, too. Um, my story is tragic and fun and exciting and and miserable and there's laughing and crying and all kinds of things and injuries and and explosions and uh really there are burn units and hospitals and um and that stuff is really interesting and and it takes a long time and I usually start talking really really fast about 5 minutes till time to start cuz I got to hurry up and get sober and uh and and so what I started started doing a while back is I kind of said, "Well, you know, uh we we've kind of already gotten there." Um my sponsor reminds me that that my job is to be at the place. Um it's not to be helpful.

Uh page 102 of the book, my job is to be at the place where I can be of maximum helpfulness to others. And uh so I'm here and uh you know at this point I prayed earlier that I'll leave now and um my higher power come down and and you'll hear what whatever you're supposed to hear. Um that Thursday back in in May was an interesting time.

I had just been out of the state mental hospital for about 2 weeks. Um a little bit before that uh I was 36 years old. I didn't have what I wanted in my life.

Everything I'd ever had, I'd ruined. Everybody I ever loved, I had seen in their face, heard from them in in in mail, email, or or from a lawyer, um that they didn't like me and didn't ever want to see me again, and and had seen disappointment on everyone I cared about, especially after I swore to myself that I wouldn't ever do it to him again. And I did it to him again.

I didn't really want to do this anymore. So many people I've heard at meetings will say things like I mean we'll hear all kinds of things at meetings. They'll say you know if you drink you'll die you know and if I had been told that in the beginning I would have asked where do I go sign where do I get get that ticket cuz I'm ready I'm done.

Um I don't measure up to what I would like to measure up to. I can't do this life in any way, form or fashion and I'm done. And um right before uh in April, I I I decided that with the help of a large bottle of Jin and put put a garden hose in the exhaust pipe of my my truck and um fired it up and and started drinking and and was later revived by the by the sheriff's department.

And uh these guys, even though I did what drunks do, you know, leave me alone and and kind of woke up and started fighting and kicking and and uh do girls fight when y'all wake up? I don't know. Um we do, guys.

We we fight. Uh it doesn't matter who it's with. And they didn't take me to jail.

They took me to the uh to the health department where I spent the whole night. And the next morning, a doctor came in and and said, "Well, you know, whether it was attention or or whatever, it doesn't matter. You know, if somebody does something like that for attention, guess what?

They win." And uh in in the state of North Carolina, a second doctor has to decide if you actually get the prize. And so they put me in a patty wagon. Um well, of course, I was still mad and angry.

They put me in this cage, like this big dog kennel is what it was. It's got it's a chain link. And they put me in this big dog kennel overnight and I tried to rip it off the ceiling cuz I don't know why that would have made a difference somehow.

And so well it was a good idea. It had to be there. And so they put me into this these these these handcuffs and these these shackles which are bigger handcuffs if you haven't had any.

They were just like and then they put a chain between them with a padlock and put me loaded me like a suitcase into a into a patty wagon where there were three other guys uh that weren't chained or handcuffed and we rode for 2 hours down the state mental hospital ended up there. There were it was a crazy place. It was four crazy people.

I mean I didn't it was you know there's some people say well there's a treatment center. No, this is the crazy ward. This is psych ward.

Whatever you want to call it. That's where I was and I couldn't get out. Um, they I went in, I did the little interview, they they asked me what day it was, you know, asked me my name and uh I answered all the questions correctly and somehow they made a mistake and I failed the test and I I got to stay and anyway, I got out of that place and but while I was in there, all the airs that I had held up, you know, I mean, cuz when I was when I was drinking like this and and and doing all these other things, you know, all the drugs and stuff like that.

And I'm going to bounce around a lot. That happens. There's only a few brain cells left.

There's like three or four. They don't like each other and they don't get along. Um so, uh you I mentioned the drug thing and and I didn't see anybody leave yet, but they're about to.

And so, uh you know, I I um I studied the the the the program of alcohol songs. Um and uh to me, it is a it's a copyrighted work. Um, it's a it's a program owned by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services Incorporated.

It's not a word of mouth program. It's not something somebody said today, I was talking where was it Rhonda? Is she here?

You hear Rhonda? No, she didn't make it. Uh, we were we were talking and she says, "Yeah, I heard uh heard out there." They said, and I said, "Oh, well, that's just it, Ron.

It's not an out there program. It's a it's a it's a book." And um we heard a minute ago you know the description of the alcoholic chapter of the agnostic and our personal adventures before and after make clear three ideas a that we were alcoholic and could not manage writing all them first sentence was the description of the alcoholic and and on page 21 and 22 it talks about the description of the alcoholic. I know you all already know this but that's you should have called somebody else.

Um this is what I do. I don't have something new. It's the same same program and um there's a sentence in there and it says uh it says on page 22 it says this is by no means a comprehensive picture of a true alcoholic because as our behavior patterns vary but this description should identify him roughly well what description well it goes before that on page 21 it starts and says here's the fellow who's been puzzling you right you remember that it goes on and on says all kinds of things about him and then it gets to this point and it says as matters grow worse he begins to use a combination of highpowered sedatives and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work.

And it goes on and on and you know then then then he gets drunk all over again and and can't take it. Maybe goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some other sedatives. Anyway, our behavior patterns may vary.

mine varied a little bit and uh sometimes I thought that you know the drugs were better, sometimes I thought the alcohol was better. And the best thing is whenever I went to a doctor and I got a a a prescription and it said you know uh alcohol may intensify that. My first thought was like so many great cooks I know that say, "Do we have baking soda?

I do we have gin? Do we have jin? I need to stop at the get some gin on the way home.

So there's drugs in my story. I don't apologize for it. Um it's uh you know it it's in it's in Bill's story.

It's in Bob's story. And according to the description of the alcoholic, it's it's a typical symptom of a of a real alcoholic. Um, I was on all that stuff and and I got out of this this this mental hospital while I was there.

My whole family and all my friends uh even though I dressed up in suits, you know, and went out to the bars and tried to look all uh together, you know, they they didn't know that there was trash on at the floor of every room of my house, knee deep. They didn't know that that I was living in one little room or a portion of a room where the boxes, you know, the hallways were were boxes stacked on either side and you had to kind of turn sideways to get through this place and it was nasty and dirty and the ashtrays had never been emptied except for when I knocked them over and uh and then I just picked them up. And so I mean we're cigarette butts and beer cans and trash all over the floor and it's nasty.

and that's where I live. And and people went there to go try to take care of things while I was locked up and they saw all that and the cat was out of the bag. So when I got back home, it didn't matter anymore.

And I could drink like I really wanted to and I could do everything cuz it didn't matter. Everybody knew there was nothing to hide anymore. So I did.

And I I went out this one night. I I had previously driven my car out and we had this little outfit called uh Designated Driver, a a company a company called Designated Driver. And and what they would do is if you got to the bar and you drank too much, you handed your keys to the bartender, you got a free drink and they called these people and for 20 bucks they came and they got you and they brought a driver who drove your car home.

They drove you and your Right. Neat, neat trick. And but that was getting expensive.

So I said, you know, I should just call the cab now, you know, and so I take a cab out, go to a bar and this and that and get hammered. I get the bartender's number, put it in my phone. You need to be back here at 2:00 a.m.

when the bar is closed. They close back then back east. They don't stay open around.

And and uh because then when all the liquor's gone and the liquor store is closed, we're going to have to get some other things to make it till morning. We'll have to head downtown. And uh so we did that and along the way I encounter this this this young lady and I uh she had like a third shift job.

Can we say that here? and so and she she was uh she knew how where to go find these things and and get them and did and we exchanged information and um she was kind of I I don't know she was like a hostess if you will very friendly and she said uh we're riding this cab to go to this place because they won't take anyway they need to see somebody they know or they won't open the door and she's like so what's your story she says and I said well I just got a out of a state mental hospital for trying to kill myself and I have a pocket full of money and I'm going to turn it into a pocket full of everything I can find and I'm going to do every bit of it by myself until I pass out or my heart stops. What's your story and uh we became instant friends?

Um later she called me and uh I apparently was in transition um from living places and needed a room and I had lots of rooms um and I swept some used a push room and swept some crap out of the way and she used one of the rooms in the house and had folks that would deliver everything. They'd go by the liquor store, the beer store and Carlos's house and all at once and they'd all come and I didn't have to drive anywhere. So this was great.

And so we woke up after about 7 days of being awake one day and it was May the 3rd, 2001. We went to this doctor's office and uh she had this earachche that wouldn't go away and I said an infection. You know the stuff you're doing antibiotics won't work.

You need something a little stronger. And she said, "Well, you tell the doctor." We get in there and do all this and I I somehow told the doctor the wrong thing. I'm not real good sometimes at communicating.

I I misled him or something. So, doctor kind of got a little substance abuse issue or he was like, "That's fantastic. My name's Phil.

I'm an alcoholic. How long you been sober?" And I told him, he'd been almost 2 hours. And and so he sits down.

He tells us about alcoholics. He tells us his story. He didn't ask any questions.

He told us about himself. And he wasn't in a hurry to get into the next room. He told us about himself.

And he told us what happened and what he got. and he said, "These people are just like you and they're happy and they don't they're they're doing really well. You ought to you ought to meet them.

You ought to go find them." And I said, "Well, where do we find these people?" He said, "That's the easiest part. You dial 411 and ask for Alcoholics Anonymous." And he made it sound very attractive. He wouldn't give up the goods, you know, he didn't say, "Oh, well, I'll take you or here, let me write out a map for you." He he just said, "Well, if you really want to know, do it yourself." Basically, is what he said.

And that made me want to know even more because see this girl, she was sick. She was she needed help. This girl needed a lot of help.

So, we we left. I I call on my cell phone. It's 6:25.

I'm listening to the voice the the recording. There's a meeting that starts at in five minutes at the next stoplight as I was driving and we pulled in there. It was a small meeting and and folks were talking for a while and and I don't remember much.

I don't remember much and I really don't remember about much about the whole first year for that matter. Um, but one thing that sticks out, this lady, I I guess they probably knowing some things now, they went around the room. They recognized, hey, there's some there's some dope fiends and drunks in here.

Let's uh let's tell them what this life can be like. And they went around the room one at a time in a circle. And and this lady said uh she hadn't missed a day of work in six years.

She said her lights hadn't been cut off in six years. And uh that that was really the one that got me because I had money in the bank still. I had worked in commercial real estate for many years and was doing pretty well and was getting fat checks every so often for doing nothing.

Sorry about that recession, folks. Um wasn't all my fault. I was just a small and um but my lights got cut off about every 60 days because I didn't I didn't go out to the mailbox and check the mail and and they would cut it off and I call and turn it on with a credit card.

But but they said things whatever they said in about 10 minutes I just started crying in there cuz I knew right away, wow, that this might be the problem. This could be the solution. There might be a way for me to get better.

We go home. We get the white ship. We we go home.

Well, we have white chips there. Surrender chips and dumped out everything I had. And and I and I I think this part's important, too.

I um have this old farmhouse that came free with a piece of land that I I bought I invested in back in the real estate days. And um so I'm in this old this old house and and I dump everything out, every bottle and everything. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, "Wow, this is here we go.

This is this I'm starting something here. This is and lined on both sides of the sink are these shelves. And there's just they're just packed as tight as they can be with all these prescription bottles and medicines and all these things for all the doctors I've been to with medical his mental medical history this thick.

And you know I I said to myself, but even if I quit drinking and and any of this other mess I've been doing, um I'm still not normal. I people still don't like to be around me. People still don't like me because there's still things wrong with me.

And um alcoholics me impulsive. And so I said, "Oh, but those people said I can quit anything." And I dumped them all out. That's not recommended.

Um I didn't sleep for 11 days, but I did dump them all out. And I'm glad that I did cuz I could not have made it to day 12. I could not have made it.

The shaking and the sweating. Um somewhere in the middle of there, day three or four, that that that young lady didn't try anymore and she left. And and Maryanne, if you're out there in the world, I hope you're okay.

Um but I went back and uh I kept going back and they said, "Keep coming back." And I did that and and you know that helping one alcoholic helping another thing. You know, it was guys with years and years and whatever months and uh I I was they swarm me after meetings cuz that's the way they did things back then. I'm sure you all do that here.

And one guy would come up and he say, "I've got four years or I've got 8 years. I've got 10." I'm like, "Yeah, yeah." And this kid comes up and he says, "I got 14 days." I said, "I need to talk to you." Um what day did you fall asleep? So, and he said it was about day 10 and uh and that's really about how it worked out.

But I just it was the withdrawals and the sweating. I felt my bones felt like they were in a microwave. And uh and that was the worst experience I've ever had.

And and I've had some bad ones. Um the stuff that I don't want to waste a lot of time on. I the the part about the the plane crash when I was 12 years old and uh woke up in the wreckage and crawled forward to to watch my dad take his last breaths and and um you know and and many others.

I I've been hit and beat up and knocked down a bunch of times and but that was a painful experience that that quitting thing. Um, I kept going to meetings. On my eighth day, uh, going to meetings and, um, that sponsorship thing, I would go and, um, there would be guys standing around after the meeting.

I walk up to them after the meeting. I'd say uh, you know, cuz I was picking up some lingo. And I said, uh, you know, they'd kind of hanging out.

So, I'd go hang out cuz that's what I thought the program was. That's what I was starting to think it was. And I I they might be talking about sponsors.

And I said, you know, um, I think I need a sponsor. And they would say, you sure do. And they walk away.

And finally, some guy came and told me the secret. He said, "You have to ask someone." And uh, so we're we're doing that. And and I'm thinking about this.

I'm going to a meeting every single minute of the day. Um, every single minute of the day. I can't make it.

The the one day at a time was not made for me. And and and the parts of every bit of my story is not made for anybody else but me. This was this is what I went through.

This is what I saw along the way. Um skipping around again. Um I don't really do the general way what I was like, what happened, and what I'm like now.

Um at page 27, that tells me that's they got one hope when they wrote that. This is how I read it. Okay?

And they said, "Our hope is that the the alcoholic man or woman desperate in need will read these stories and we believe it's only by fully disclosing our innermostelves and our problems that they'll be led to say, "Wow, I'm I'm one of these people. I must have this thing." Um, this AA convention people. So, you're here.

You probably already think you have this thing. So, let's move on and get to what to do about it. Uh, you know, I mean, if we if if we were 101 in 12step call skull, it tells me that, you know, a man properly armed with the facts about himself can gain the entire confidence of another in a in a few hours.

Few hours. Okay, Claudia. No.

>> Yeah. >> So, we don't have a few hours. I'll just tell you what I saw.

Um, my best direction for for what I do up here comes from AA Comes of Age, one of my favorite favorite books, uh, by Bill Wilson. July 1955, he gets in front of like 30,000 people uh, to tell his story or to give a talk. And he gets up there and I'm sure they wanted to hear about the brokerage and the the drinking and the motorcycle.

I want to hear about the motorcycle. and and um he he got up there and he said it's traditional in AA that we do not make speeches. We simply talk about our own experiences and Rick about the experiences of those around us which means I'll talk about you too um if I saw you you know the things that I've seen.

So, this is how it went. And I went to a meeting at 8:00 in the morning. I got out of that.

I didn't know what to do. I went to have breakfast with these old guys cuz that's what they said. They said, "You want to come eat?" And I said, "I don't have any money." They said, "We didn't ask you if you have any money." And so I went to eat with them.

And then I went to a meeting at 12. And then I hung out with those folks for a little while. Went to lunch.

I knew not to say anything. bring up the money thing. That was a problem when the bill came.

And then I went to the 5:30 meeting, which where I'm from, it's called happy hour, which I did still don't understand. It's like the saddest 60 minutes on the planet. So, and then I went to the 8:00 and then on the weekends there was a 10:00 and then the midnight.

So, I mean, I'm going to uh three, four, five meetings a day my first week. So, I did my 90 in a week. and well I wanted to get better faster and so I wanted to move ahead quickly and so day eight I'm at this meeting and uh I don't know what it was on I think it was on gratitude and so I you know I I'm I'm well verssed you know I've done the accelerated version of the program through selfstudy and uh you know independent study so to speak and so it's time for me to share and I've got some gratitude And I and so I tell these people about how I had been at some meeting where they closed the meeting with this little prayer, a little moment of silence for the alcoholic who might walk by outside tonight and not even know we're here.

And I went, "That is me. you always were were praying for me because I was the guy who went this church was located on this little road that goes down to a cemetery um where my dad was buried when I was 12 years old in 1977 and uh I've been going there since my for 23 years and uh and sitting there because when that happened and I lost him in the blink of an eye It was tough and it was just a short while later because my mother developed cancer that same summer um that she ended up there when I was 19. And then when I was about 28 and just barely about to come out of this thing, somebody kidnapped my sister and she was missing for a year and then she was found murdered.

And at that point, we we put a bench out there and and I would go and say, "So, for 23 years, I'm going down this road past this church where these people are that I don't know about." And um and I think I'm doing pretty good with my gratitude, right? I'm on topic. I'm not missing anything.

And this dude across the room, he's I don't want to be upset. He's bald and he's got tattoos up to his neck and he just cuts me off in the middle of a big meeting. He just starts talking.

I'm John and I and I John. I'm like, I'm not done here. And uh and he looks over at me.

He's got this big knife that he just he's he's cleaning his fingernails with it cuz he had just eaten an apple with it. And I it's a I think they call them a cutless. It's a big pirate knife.

It's curved, you know, and uh this guy's huge and muscles and tattoos and he's got this knife in his hand and he's says, "Listen here, dude. You cannot ever go back to that cemetery ever again and be the same person. I know you can't.

You can't because now you've got something you've never had. You've got hope. You didn't have that before.

Now you got it." And he says, "I know you got it because you tell us that you you came here, which means you think you have a problem. You know that you couldn't do this." So, there's step one. Um, you came back, which means you think we could do it.

Duh. Take a look at us versus you. And, uh, so that's a power greater than you wants to start with one.

He says, "Now it's up to you to make a decision. are you going to let us help you? And one of the best ways you can let us help you is to stop talking and start listening.

And you know, not he really said that in in a very matterof fact way, not not a shut up way. Um I mean, I was terrified enough, but he I was just pretty amazed that somebody took an interest in me and and I think we call it taking the whole meeting hostage and cross talk and all that. Nobody said anything to him.

Maybe I totally had a knife. And so, but he took an interest in me and I was I was I was part of the group now. I was welcomed.

I was accepted in. And so I asked around. Everybody knew who he was.

He was this big celebrity. He had tattoo shops and tattoo parlors and the biggest tattoo convention in the Southeast. And he'd been on Discovery Channel.

And he was a big deal. and he'd been in prison and he didn't go anywhere without two little drunkards. Had a new one every day.

Two new ones dragging along and they're carrying stuff and he's pushing sit down and and he had new guys all the time pulling them around and I I I thought he had a labor service or something. So I call him up and ask him if he'll be my sponsor and he says, "Yeah, I will. Meet me over at this AA club at 8:00 in the morning.

I'll see you there." Right. And I can't wait cuz not only he said yes and he's a celebrity. He said he's a big time.

I didn't get a I didn't get a run of the mill sponsor. This is the This is the guy. It's like having a big brother.

It's like I'm going to tell my brother what you It's This is a really neat thing. So I get there. He comes in late, strolls in uh big room, leans against the wall, his head back like he's sleeping.

And uh which is embarrassing cuz I'm want to tell I'm telling everybody my sponsor is coming. You got to check this guy out. He's sleeping.

And so he's one of those guys he'd lean forward every once in a while and say something like that's not what the book says because people were I don't know they respected him or they were afraid of him or he would cut off the whole at the end of a meeting. Sometimes he would say, "You know, the only thing you guys said about recovery was when you read the steps." And he was just really tough and mean and rude and vulgar and he had printed t-shirts that said he did things to your wife or girlfriend. I can't say them up here.

Um, and and so for a little while I had resentment cuz I was like, "Uh-huh, I knew somebody was doing that." Anyway, so anyway, my head went so I run up to him after this meeting and I'm like, "What? Okay, I'm ready to do this thing. I'm excited.

I'm ready to go. I I don't want to move this, you know, making this this week is I haven't slept. I've been up since 4:00 waiting for this damn meeting to start.

So, um, what do we do? How do we do to say anything?" and he he pointed at two other guys sitting on the wall who were looking at the four and he said, "You're going to give those two guys a ride home. I brought them here that you're taking them home." And I said, "Okay." Uh I thought he misunderstood my question.

Um but so uh I'm like, "Just give them right home." He's like, "Yeah, get their phone numbers, find out what meeting they want to go to tonight. If they can get there, you go get them and you take them and uh tomorrow morning call them, wake them up early." That's why I was late. Uh so they'll, you know, they won't get up.

You need to call them a couple times and and bring them here. Get them here. If they can't get here and I'll see you tomorrow.

And and he started walking out the door. And so now I knew he didn't hear what I said. So, but I didn't know what to do.

I was scared. I'm shaking still. My bones are still in the microwave.

It feels like he's got a knife. I don't know what to do. So, I just do what the man says and and I do that.

And uh little John is was his name. And uh some people know Little Johnny. He traveled all over the world.

And um Little John would would keep making me do things, keep making me help people. For about the first 90 days, I I drove guys to meetings. That's that was I was like the I was the AA transportation service.

I drove people to meet every meeting, you know, morning, noon, night. They would just come up to me and flock after me. Okay.

12:00. You got me at 12:00. 4 8:30.

Hey, listen. Thursday, we need a couple people. Yeah, you got it.

I'm there. I had nothing else to do. I had nothing else to do.

And and and I I couldn't be alone. I did. I couldn't make it a whole day without drinking.

I could not do that. Um so I did that stuff. And after a while, little John raises the bar.

we uh were at a meeting and and he dicks up this book right here or he goes over to the literature table long time goes six bucks at the dawn patrol and um he says, "You got six bucks?" I'm like, "Well, of course I got six bucks." And he says, "Give me the give me the six bucks." And uh he says, "You're buying a book." And uh we buy the book and and he didn't really have me start reading it right away. He says, "You you need to, but I know you're not going to." And and but he had me keep doing stuff. Every once in a while, he would call and assign new people to to pick up.

He'd say, "Go pick up this guy. Take him to this meeting. I'll meet you there." He wouldn't show up.

So now I got this guy. And uh what he was doing, I think most of y'all already know this. I mean, this guy was tricking me.

He didn't tell me, "Look, if you will, if you will spend your time trying to help somebody else, you'll you'll it'll help take your mind off what's bugging you. I'll take your mind off wanting to drink, wanting to do other things and and and you're going to get we're we're going to keep you around long enough to get some sense into you. Um he just said, "Do it." And uh and not just with me, but he he was doing like 20 at a time, you know.

I was just I was a number, I think. I don't know. And uh he he was really something else.

And uh I did that after a while and my mind was starting to come together and we we read through the book a little bit together. He'd point out some stuff. He'd do pick meetings I was supposed to go to where they read out of the book.

Um it got to be pretty regular. If it's not, if they don't have the book, then you're at the wrong meeting. And uh little John got sober in prison and that's all they had was a book.

Um he was somewhere where they didn't even have meetings coming in. He had a book and some dies. And um so we we did this stuff and uh raised the bar at some point.

I I love this part of the story. I don't know when I we go till 11, right? >> 11.

>> Yeah. So, uh, just tell me a quarter tail. Uh, he, uh, he raised the bar a little bit.

There's a treatment center nearby. He's like, "Okay, so now you need to get a commitment. You need to get something to do.

Uh, you know, they've got these vans. You can drive. You once you've been sober 6 months, you can go up there and start this fight." I go sign up and and I'm a volunteer driver and I had seen some other people doing that that seem pretty special.

Um, I get out of the van and uh, one day at the going to the very first meeting I'd ever driven them to and I walk up to some other folks that I knew had been doing it, you know, and now I was as cool as them, if not better. So, I probably did it better. And I said, I drove the van.

And this one guy says, that's really nice, Reed. I did that every week for a for a year. And I said, "Well, that's uh that's that's all 52 weeks.

That's 10 people in a band. 520. You took 520 people to a meeting." Wow.

That is that is something else. He said, "Well, I I missed a couple weeks." I went, "Ah, see, you're not all that." And he said, "Yeah, one week I my my my father died and the other week I was in the hospital, but I was there every other time because it's it's not worth doing unless you make a commitment." So, you'll do it when you don't want to. That is what we have to do.

do we have to commit ourselves to to being somewhere for somebody else because our brain will take us somewhere else? And I said, "Okay." I didn't really hear any of that. I just I realized that took took two weeks off.

So now we're talking 50 weeks. That's times 10. That's 500 people took this miracle obsession.

And and so 500 and he's 500. He's been pretty good. I took 10.

He's did five. I'll take a,000. That's what I'll do.

I'll show him. I'll take a thousand people to a meeting. So, I had the little piece of paper that they gave me with the names on it.

And next week when I came back, I got the next piece of paper and I went 11, 12, 13, 14. And I added them up. And I went home every week and I stuck that thing on the bulletin board.

And I kept it going and I'd be at 200 and then I'd be at 300 and I'll be at 400. And then after all, one day this this Sergeant Carter, anybody ever watch that show? uh uh this fell Sergeant Carter like he busts into an AA meeting in the morning and he says, "Look, up at that treatment center you've been driving for, we got this little halfway house where people after they go through treatment, we want uh we need a little help over there, get these guys going and and help them wash their clothes and show them how to put put the dish in this dishwasher." Anyway, we we we need some help up there on the weekends.

We think we were thinking about you and I said, "Wow." Um okay. Okay. And and so I go through this whole process and I I meet the people up there and going through the final interview and stuff and it's not that big of a deal.

I'm sure you figured that out by now. But I was amazed that somebody wanted me to participate in something like that. And that that somehow I was worthy of of being that kind of helpful.

And uh at the very end the guy says, "Oh, by the way, you can't drive the vans anymore." I'm like, "Whoa, dude. I got this thousand person goal. Everybody knows about it.

And I'm at 936. It's time for you to change your goals, buddy. And that's it.

Change your goals. And uh moved on. So, but I did.

I took 936 people to I mean, I took 935 of them back. I only lost one. Um, might be worth a counting thing.

Anyway, so uh I did this for a while. Uh, and and what happened there is is I got tricked. Little John tricked me into helping other tricked me into doing the work that he talks about in the book.

And somewhere around uh 2 years, I don't know, 18 months, I started to get real uncomfortable. in meetings, I started to I started to notice and not be comfortable anymore. And and this my home group is I have two home groups.

One's Bigbook 2 T O because there's a Big Book home group or Big Book Two. Anyway, uh and the other one's the primary purpose group, Big Book Study. Um where we both do this about the same thing.

I just studied the book and uh what I was reading in that in that meeting and what I was seeing at all the meetings I was going to weren't matching up what it said in the book and what people did and said at meetings weren't matching up and I was having a lot of trouble with that and I was still doing that stuff that that little John had forced me into doing and I kept raising the bar and I kept I kept hearing those things that other people were doing and I and I didn't know it, but I was getting the benefits from that stuff. I was feeling alive. There's so many times I had that silly commitment going to go drive the stupid van and I didn't want to go and I was tired and I had a new job and it sucked cuz you Anybody could ever get a first job in recovery.

They they suck. And so I don't want to go. I call, can you get somebody else to drive?

I don't And no, you got to be here. And I go and on the way home I'm almost in tears. I met a guy who the only thing he had left in the world was an insurance policy that his mom paid for so that if he ever asked for help, she he could go and get it.

And and and and whatever I'd been upset about that day was gone. I mean, I couldn't even remember what it was. I would have to ask people.

I'd call somebody. What was I mad about? You know, it would just erase it.

That still happens today. I kept on doing this stuff and it gets better. After a while, like I said, those those things started bugging me and then the rules started getting worse.

There we have something called the North Carolina Substance Abuse Board and they've got all these rules and my book Oh, I stopped saying that a while back. Your book, your book, you guys have a book called Alcohol. I'm sitting there.

tells me that personal disclosure uh is one of the most powerful tools I have. My story, my history, the things I've been through is is probably one of the most powerful things I have. The powerful tools and these uh probably non-alcoholics that make these rules say I can't use it.

I can't use that stuff. It's called inappropriate personal disclosure. So, I got I got mad.

I got a resentment. And I said, "Well, what do you mean I can't say what I want to say? Um, that book says if they called up the local hospital, I'll just call a different hospital.

That's what I'll do. I'll just go somewhere else and do it or they don't pay me and I can do whatever I want." And and so I did. And that this is where things really changed for me.

I was getting into this funk and and recovery was just kind of going on and on and it wasn't getting better. And I'm thinking about killing myself again about every night with two or three years sober. I'm not drinking.

I'm not thinking about drinking. Um they say you pick up where you left off. They I hate it when people say they, but I'm going to do it anyway.

And I I left off with carbon monoxide. I know that's an outside issue, but so um so if I pick up where I left off, it's not looking too good. And uh and that's what exactly what is happening.

That's where my thoughts are. I just don't want to try anymore. and um this program or this misinterpretation of a program or this this misinformation or this thing that I'm doing is that that just keep coming back the 90 and 90 just don't drink go to meetings and hang out and drink coffee and all these little phrases and some of them are very helpful but they weren't they weren't doing anything for me anymore.

They weren't working anymore. Um, and and the little commitments I was doing weren't working anymore because I now know I was getting paid for them and I wasn't allowed to say what I really wanted to say. And that that that removes something called honesty.

So, I did what any good alcoholic would do. I got a resentment and took my ball and went somewhere else. And uh, people say this all the time.

Well, hold on a minute. The book says, you know, these guys, they figured out how to do this thing. They called up their local hospital.

you can't call up the local hospital anymore and ask them if they got any first class drunks you can talk to. And I agree with that. Um, that's a waste of time.

Google, use Google in the 21st century and you get a whole list. I Googled this place before I came. I was hoping maybe I could go find some first class drugs to talk to.

You couldn't even see the map. There were so many dots of places that either our treatment centers or hospitals are called. I mean, you guys are just unendated with medical something here.

Um, I think you could walk out the door and it's like Subway, Supper House, Subway, just one after another, but we only had a few and and I I tried a couple. And I ended up at this this county place um that I now call Freehab. And I love that place.

And I went there my first night there. I snuck in. I stole the spot from somebody.

It was Christmas Eve. And Christmas Eve I I overheard this guy saying, "I can't be carry the media in there because it's Christmas Eve." And I'm like, "What? You got to be kidding me.

That's the night to go." because Christmas Eve was was such a special night for me. Um, my first Christmas Eve, I dropped the van off. This is when things started going south after they had gone so well for about eight or nine months.

Uh, I dropped the van off at that place. I'm getting ready to leave. Um, I think an early relationship started to block me in this parking lot and I got mad and I don't remember what else went on.

All I know is I was crazy as hell and I'd heard there were marathon meetings around the clock at Christmas. I didn't need one. I'm glad you guys had a place to go, but I didn't need one.

And something happened. I was mad as hell. I drove straight to that place.

I get there. I stay there all night. I didn't want to didn't want to say anything.

And um at 2:00 in the morning, in the door comes little John, my first sponsor. And beside him is is Steve. Steve's my current sponsor.

They were they were buddies back then. Little Mutton Jeff biker dudes. Um they traveled all around.

They go on they get on their motorcycles, take tattoo needles, take off for a month, come back with more money than they had when they left. I still don't know what's up with that. But they would tattoo along the way at conventions and biker things and they would and and come back with resentments because they'd go to AA meetings and when they'd pass the basket they they'd pick it up and they'd walk it around those guys and hand it to so that they thought they'd steal the money.

So, but Steve and Little John come walking in and I said, "Uh, what are you doing here?" You know, I signed up to chair the meeting because there was nobody signed up, you know, for the 2 a.m. meeting. You know, I'm I'm there at, you know, 2:00 a.m.

Christmy by myself, middle of nowhere, and in this nasty neighborhood, and these guys walk in, and they're like, "Well, well, nobody signed up cuz we do it every year. Everybody knows we do it every year." I'm like, "Oh, well, it's not on the schedule." He's like, "I just told you we do it every year. Everybody knows that you weren't here last year.

We don't know where you were. You're here now. Can you like get move over?" And so we sit down and uh I got to be with these two guys that I thought the world of and and hear them.

And in came a guy who had just gotten kicked out of Christmas at his home for the very for the last time so to speak and they worked on him, one alcoholic with another and they hammered him and they had the book and they were showing things and pointing out things and and uh so that's where I learned about Christmas and and I did that at this this treatment center. I went there. I figured I'll just know what to do.

I'll go in and they uh they were reading out of the 12 and 12 and we're going through and they they started asking me questions like I was a teacher or something. And I said, "Well, that's from your from the book Alcohol Namas." Y'all y'all read the book big book, right? And they said, "What's that?" They've got the 12 and 12.

They don't know what the big book is. So I said, "Aha." And I I called this place. I said, "Can I come here um and and talk to these people about the big book?" They said, "You mean another meeting?" I said, "Well, no.

I I just I I I reverted back to what it said in the book. I reverted back to when Bill and Bob called up their local hospital and explained their need." When Bill said, "I needed this alcoholic as much as he needed me." Um, I knew I was dying and I was going to try doing exactly what this book said cuz I didn't have any other choice. I couldn't ask little John about it because at this point in things, he had gotten so famous and was doing well and was making money that he stopped helping guys.

And the day came where he decided it would be a good idea to join that motorcycle gang finally and get a patch and do whatever you have to do to get into that. And then he was found dead. And I was lost and I didn't know what to do.

And all I can remember was this thing he said over and over your job something in the book about your job. you you got to cuz I didn't know what to do or where to go and I didn't know who to talk to or who cuz anybody else I would tell them what I'm thinking. They'd say something stupid.

Sit down and shut up. Take the cotton out of your ears and stick it in. I'm like trying I'm thinking about blowing my brains out, man.

You know, um all the time and uh I could talk to him about that and he would take it seriously and now he was gone. And so I dig through the book and I find this page 102, your job now. I told you about that earlier.

Be at the place. So, I went to this place and I start teaching these people the big book and uh I've been doing it now a long time. I I go there every week now.

At one point they called me back maybe go twice or asked if I would go twice a week. I couldn't wait. I did.

And um I've never tried to memorize anything out of this book. It's through teaching it. It's through being in a room and people raise their hand and say, "Well, what about the such and such?" And I turn to the page and I point at it and I read it and I the 47th time I say permanent recovery.

Yeah, that's mentioned three times. I can explain right there where where it is at page 14, you know, or X. Sorry, I got that confused.

Oh, I'm going to do that a lot. XBI, an alcoholic fails to effect uh bill involved. This seemed to prove that one alcoholic could affect another.

There's no non-alcoholic could. It also indicated the strenuous work one alcoholic with another was vital to permanent recovery. And I said, "How come we don't have topics about permanent recovery?" And I started teaching these people this stuff.

They started picking up this toolkit and they started running with it. And in there, I met so many people who were more open-minded about this written down copyrighted version of the program than that word of mouth thing that they had failed at. They called themselves chronic relapsers.

I found out they actually had something called chronic untreated alcoholism. And they every week there'd be some new people and he'd raise his hand. He'd say, "I tried AA and AA doesn't work." And I would say, "Well, what what did you try?" He said, "Well, I I drank coffee with people.

I went to meetings. I sat in a chair. I listened to people talk about their problems." And I'm like, "Oh, that aa That's the other A.

And they said, "Well, what do you mean by that?" I'm like, "Well, there's these three different AAS. There's not one. There's there's three different ones.

There's this thing that you're talking about that where people go and they talk, you know. Um, anybody here ever been to a bar?" Okay. Well, we have one.

Okay. So, you know, okay, I'll tell you. At bars frequently, usually there's a guy or a girl.

It's often a guy uh sitting in the same chair every time you go. And this guy, no matter what the conversation that he overhears, because he wasn't invited into it, says something like, "Well, I know what they could do to fix this country, let me tell you." and and or and or or if you're you're about to worry about got a problem at work. He says, "Well, I I could tell you what you need to do about that." You know, he's got a he's got an idea.

He's got a solution for everything. He said, "Well, these guys are really smart. Any bar you'll find him.

It doesn't matter. You just go." Sometimes these people get sober and they show up in AA meetings and they will tell you how to you know what you need to do. I'll tell you what you relationship.

I'll tell you. Come here. I'll tell you all about it.

You know, I know it says this on page such and such in the book, but that's not really the program. Let me tell you the that's what they say. There's that AA this word of mouth aa this this hearsay aa thing.

Um that's one of them. The the the meetings and groups is open to the public. There's no charge.

There's no background check. There's no fees or dues. There's no requirements for membership other than a desire to stop drinking.

And no one asks, you know, excuse me, you're before you come in there, do you have a desire to stop drinking? Okay. Next.

Nobody checks. Just anybody in and out. In and out.

It doesn't matter. They So, anybody can say anything they want. There's that.

pay. And then there's um the meetings, the organiz organized part of it, the printed meeting lists, the printed schedules, the the the AA club houses, the the AA group rooms where the steps are on the wall and then there's microphones and and uh it says AA on the door and there's greeters and and that's the fellowship. And those people are probably like you guys.

When you leave here, you go practice a program called AA. And when you come here, you practice a fellowship called AA. And you have fun and you laugh and you hang out and you do things together and you make fast friends.

That's the other A. And then there's a third one. I said there were three.

The third one is a copyrighted intellectual property called Alcoholics Anonymous. They all have the same name. You see, it's pretty confusing.

Um, well, it is. I'm not I know it's funny but that's really what I have observed that this is just my opinion. This is how I've seen it happen and yeah I'm giving you an opinion here.

This is what I've looked at and there's these different things. And so when a person comes in I don't think anybody's misled. I don't think there's any people who don't want to do the program.

It's just it's hard where is figuring out where it is is kind of hard. And um but this one is the program uh of AA. So I'm doing this thing.

I'm teaching this thing to people. They're picking up this toolkit and and they're going along. They said AA doesn't work.

And I they say I can't go to AA because I did drugs. I tell them about the description of the alcoholic. They go, "Huh?

What else you got in there?" You know, I'm like, "Well, there's there's lots of things in here. You know, there there's all kinds of things, you know. Are you trying to help other people?" Well, I can't do that.

That's step 12. I got to wait a year or two to do that. I'm like, "What do you mean you got to wait a year or two to do that?

you know, you got to do that right away so you can get this spiritual awakening or psychic change. Why do I need a psychic change? Well, cuz if you're a real alcoholic, you need a psychic change.

That's what the doctor's opinion says. Well, you know, and so I go through and I and I show him that stuff. I tell him that stuff and exactly where it is.

And and they picked up I went through this stuff. This big huge guy comes up to me after meeting one time. He's pounding his chest.

He's like, "Now you give me something I can use. Now you give me something I can use. Psychic change.

The doctor's opinion. Let me give you this real quick. You've heard it before, but sometimes we skip sentences.

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that while they admit it's injurous, they cannot after time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems to be the only normal one.

They are restless, irritable, and discontented. Unless they can again experience that sense of ease and comforts which comes at once by taking a few drinks, drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, then the phenomenon of craving develops.

They passed through the well-known stages of a spree. We call that avenge now. Emerging remorseful with a firm resolution not to drink again.

This is repeated over and over. And unless this person can experience an entire psychic change, there is very little hope in his recovery. They uh they switch this psychic change and vital spiritual experience up all the time.

On page 27, this guy, this guy goes to a doctor and he says, "You know, I I do I can't stop drinking. What do I do? What's wrong with me?" Doctor basically says, "You're screwed, Catholic alcoholic." I had never seen one single case recover where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you.

Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang. He said, "The doctor's no exception." The doctor says yes there is exceptions cases such as yours have been occurring since early times here and then once in a while alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these occurrences are a phenomenon.

They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of these men are suddenly cast to one side and a completely new set. The motives begin to dominate them.

That's what's required for a real chronic alcoholic. Everything that that I had going for me had to be done and it had to start with something fresh, something new and go the other way. Um, I do this all the time like I said of this this freehab thing and that's where I learned so much.

If you haven't ever done that and you don't think you've experienced the benefits of alcohol synonyms that you see in other people when they say, "I'm happy to be alive." I get sick of those people, but I'm one of them now. And because Bill said, you know, many times I went to my old hospital in despair upon talking to a man there, it' be amazing. He lifted up and sat on my feet.

I, you know, the commitment I had for the bands was one thing. It It worked for a while. It did.

The service part worked for a while, but but service is a service. It's not helping others. Um, I threw this any G gsrs in here, group service representatives.

Yeah. I I gave my gsrs their homework uh recently and told them that they know all the required text. It's on aa.org.

You'll be amazed at the list. It's scary. One of them is the pamphlet P16 the home group.

And in there when it comes to that service thing, it says there's a there's a tradition of giving newcomers service positions because this will help keep them safe stay sober. Conference approved pamphlet folks. Next line says our experience indicates that this is not so this does not work.

Service is a service. The basis of the program is one alcoholic helping one other alcoholic, one alcoholic helping another, which which often happens when you're in a room this big and everybody left and there's 400 chairs, you might start talking. But so I I tell these people this stuff like we just did, this chronic alcoholic and and finally one day a guy asked a question that I think was real brilliant or or there were a couple questions that led to it.

It made perfect sense and I think it's something where the folks who slip through the cracks and they keep going in and out where it matters. There's a couple of points. One of them is okay, this doctor's opinion and this book dumper or y'all might have a different name for them.

That's what we call them. Is saying the only way an alcoholic can get sober, the only way is a vital spiritual experience, an entire psychic change. If that's true, then how come there's hundreds or thousands of people going to meetings who just don't drink and go to meetings and drink coffee and hang out and eat pizza and play Frisbee and they're sit in a chair and they leave before the prayer and they're they're doing okay.

How come there's that group if there's only one way? Why is that? I think that's a pretty fair question.

It's a very fair question. Um, the way I like to answer it the best is with a little illustration that they put into the wise chapter. They describe the progression of an alcoholic.

Um, those of you who have been at this for a while, 25, 30 years, 40 years, you've seen this over and over, it doesn't matter. you've been in rooms this big 20 years ago and you look around this year and there's three of you left and there's the same number of people or or it's your home group if you've been there 5 years in certain parts of the country you look around and 5 years later there's three of you left you know that sitting in the chair stuff does not work but page 110 I I I pull stuff out of the program because I didn't write And it's in your book. Just bear with me here.

Husband number four. This description. Everybody hates this chapter and it's so packed with information.

You may have a husband of whom you completely despair. He's been placed in one institution after another. He is violent or appears definitely insane when drunk.

Sometimes he drinks on the way home from the hospital. I did that from the state mental hospital. I I had I couldn't make it home.

I had to call and have the the dope man meet me halfway. Um I was just glad that the cabbie was willing to sign me out of the hospital for $20. Um perhaps he has had DTS.

Doctors may shake their heads and advise you to have him committed. Maybe you've already been obliged to put him away. After each one of these little short descriptions, they give a a summation in here.

What do you think they said about this guy? I mean, this is bad. They said, "This picture may not be as dark as it looks." Many of our husbands were just as far gone, yet they all got well.

There's only four of them. There's three more. Husband number three, what's his story?

This husband has gone much further than husband number two. Though once like number two, he became worse. His friends have slipped away.

His home is a near wreck and he cannot hold a position. This was me. Maybe the doctor has been called in and the weary round of sanitariums and hospitals has begun.

Today we call them we call them detoxes and treatment center. He admits he cannot drink like other people but does not see why. He clings to the notion that he will yet find a way to do so.

He may have come to the point where he desperately wants to stop but cannot. His case presents additional questions which we shall try to answer for you. Sounds bad.

What do they say about this guy? You can be quite hopeful of a situation like this. Okay, so we got these four.

It's supposed to get worse. We're down to the last three. Number three and four.

And they're saying this is all right. This is no big deal. We can handle this.

Why is that? We're still I'm I'm trying to I know it's long. It's a long walk to get there, but that question of those folks who do this hangout program and those folks who really dig their teeth in, what's the difference?

Why do you have to do it one way? Why does it work for these others? Number two, your husband is showing lack of control for he's unable to stay on the water wagon even when he wants to.

He he often gets entirely out of hand when drinking. He admits this is true, but is positive he will do better. He has begun to try with or without your cooperation.

Various means of moderating or staying dry. He is beginning to lose his friends. This guy's still got friends.

His business may suffer somewhat. He's got a business. He's worried at times.

He's becoming aware he cannot drink like other people. He sometimes drinks in the morning. Sometimes through the day.

Also, to hold his nervousness in check, he is remorseful after serious drinking bouts. This guy's sorry. He's not even having blackouts.

He knows what he did. But when he gets over the spree, he begins to think once more how he can drink moderately next time. It's not too bad, right?

What do you think they say about this guy? Do you know what they say about this guy? We think this person is in danger.

These are the earmarks of a real alcoholic. There's only one more folks. Husband number one.

Your husband may be only a heavy drinker. His drinking may be constant or it may be heavy only on certain occasions. Perhaps he spends too much money for liquor.

It may be slowing him up mentally and physically, but he does not see it. Sometimes he sometimes he is a source of embarrassment to you and his friends. Well, not every time.

He's positive he can handle his liquor, that it doesn't no harm, that drinking is necessary in his business to get the, you know, you got to do it. Um, he would probably be insulted if he were called an alcoholic. This world is full of people like him.

This world is full of people like him. Some will moderate or stop all together. and some will not.

Of those who keep on, a good number will become true alcoholics after a while. The whole world is full of them. Some of them will just stop.

Few of them will keep on with these other two, three, and fours. What do they say about this? Well, it just says they're going to move on.

So, we here it is. You may not see it yet. Okay, we got the world full of people who can stop.

They only drink on certain occasions. It's necessary for their business. So, they go to they go to a company party.

Uh I'll use an example. I I call this guy uh uh Richard. Richard goes to the company party and he he drinks at the party cuz he has to.

This is a business function. He wouldn't go normally because he's a nerd. And uh he uh he he he drives home.

He gets a DUI on the way home. lawyer tells him I ought to go to AA cuz it don't look good when he goes to court. So he goes to AA and Richard walks into AA and he's looking around and he says uh you know as people go through he starts to click.

He likes what everybody's saying that they're getting along really well. He clicks. That's a bad sign for Richard, by the way.

And they go around the room and everybody says, "Hi, I'm Bill. I'm an alcoholic. I'm Jamie and I'm Jack.

memory and he says, "Well, hi, I'm Dick. I'm an alcoholic." He starts calling himself an alcoholic out of nowhere. This world's full of people like him.

This fellowship is full of people like him. Not necessarily yours. Mine back home is.

And those people can stop. And when you tell them don't drink and go to meetings, they don't drink and go to meetings. And Richard just doesn't drink and goes to meetings.

And he becomes popular cuz he's doing good. cuz he is aged. He's not a real alcoholic.

And uh he starts doing service commitments. He starts sponsoring guys. And he tells them, "Well, you just do this." And he's he's got this attitude and he's happy and he's like, "You just do it this way.

That's all you don't want to do it that way. Go on. That's okay.

I'm it worked for me." And uh that's all he has to do. There's this progression thing we read about. It gets worse.

I know so many people like this. I mean, I I really know personally people like this, some some amazing, wonderful people who are gone now. And years go by, 10 or 15 years go by, and it's got a guy like this, Richard.

I I mean, I know specific people, and I don't want to use their names up here, and and the day comes and they drink again. The real alcoholic, they say things, well, remember how bad it was. remember what it was like?

Well, folks, I I can't remember what it was like. I cannot remember what it was like. They tell us on uh 29 8 7 6 24.

The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, and lost the power of choice and drinking, our so-called willpower becomes practically non-existence. We are unable at certain times, this is an important part here, certain times to bring into consciousness with sufficient force the memory of suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.

We can't remember how bad it was at certain times. This is where and why when people say, "What were you thinking?" We really don't know. We We weren't thinking.

There was no thinker. It was the brain was flying with nobody at the controls. It was just gone.

At certain times, a guy like this Richard guy, he he sticks around for a while, 5, 10, 15, even 20 years. The disease progresses. That certain time comes along and he drinks.

and now his disease is much farther on and he can't stop and he's in his 50s or 60s now and he doesn't have the advantages he had before and he can't stop and people say don't drink and go it means he's like I know I I know what to do they always say that they come back well I know what to do 90 or something but he can't do it and he doesn't make it and we read about and two people go to his funeral cuz he didn't have any friends anymore and he doesn't make it. Those are the two halves. I mean, I I'd like to be funnier.

I'd like to have more levity, but this ain't the common cold, folks. I do what I can to help people. I go back to rehab every week.

I'm flying back tomorrow with a hard rainy sweep. I'll be there Monday. at 6:00 like oh not because I'm going to try to save anybody but because people are going to die and I'm just going to try to keep one less from dying maybe you know five died this year from that little class and and more are going to die I would be one of them if I weren't doing this thing page 89 practical experience shows that nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking.

Nothing. People say it's open to interpretation. Okay, fine.

Tell me that word is an addition to nothing. Nothing will so much ensure immunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. It works when other activities fail.

This is our 12th suggestion. carry this message to other alcoholics. Not that message, not that out there message, not that I heard that guy say message.

Um, and and again, I'm speaking for me, folks. Y'all can carry whatever message you want. I read it.

I'm still alive. I'm on borrowed time. Lots of it.

And I am so grateful to still be alive. And that's the message I have to keep carrying. And that's the one I was hoping to bring to you guys.

I get to have another day. I get to have another week. And I wouldn't have it if y'all didn't let me come here and do this thing that I learned in this book.

And I I'm so grateful you let me come. Thanks so much. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day. >>