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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Hi, I'm Dan and I'm an alcoholic. >> And I want to start off by thanking all the people involved in bringing me out and uh the people that uh have been real hospitable to me.

Um Kim I've been talking to for a few months now, right? and Dan picked me up at the airport and and uh drove me around, gave me a grand tour and had a continuation of that tour with Anthony and Lynn and and uh today Malcolm took me to lunch and and I got to see some more stuff. Um Vancouver is a lovely place.

It really is. And I can see why uh uh why they're saying it's one of the nic it's the nicest city to live in in the world. And I don't know if you you probably heard that already though, but uh so it's a pleasure to have been given the opportunity to to first to come out here and do this with you guys and uh secondly to just the opportunity to see Vancouver.

So um I again as I said I'm Dan and I'm an alcoholic and uh that's not something that I really believed that I was. And uh you know for for me I thought an alcoholic was somebody that didn't have a place to live and didn't have a job and you know basically you know I was not the vision of what an alcoholic was in my mind. I just thought I really could handle my liquor well a little bit better than most.

Right? That was my idea of my drinking is if you could if you could handle it like I would you could drink like I did as well. But I learned a lot more later on.

So, uh, first I' I'd like to start off by saying that I'm from Santa Monica and, uh, my home group is the, as outlined in the book, uh, group of Alcoholics Anonymous, and it's on meets on Tuesday nights if you're ever in Santa Monica. And it's been my home group since my first year of of sobriety back in 1989. So, um, and that's where I met a sponsor that, uh, that changed my life.

And, uh, that was an interesting comment considering I had four sponsors before that. All right. That's not the only meeting that I attend.

Um, it's hard for me to say which one's really my home group cuz I cuz I'm really partial to this big big book study that's on Thursday night and it's uh not so creatively named, the Thursday night big book study and uh um we like to refer to it as full contact AA. Uh questions are allowed to anyone for anyone from anyone. Uh the format of the meeting is we're going to read one paragraph and everybody can share on that paragraph as often and as many times as they want to share on that paragraph.

As I said, cross talk is allowed and uh so it can sometimes not be for the weak at heart. Um >> it's rarely that newcomers don't like it. >> It's quite often that people with time don't like it.

M >> especially if they're not used to the format because the normal AA pitch does not have a place in that in that group. The uh it's in the format and it's read by this paragraph that's read by the secretary in the beginning of the meeting. That the format of the meeting is the context of the paragraph read and that um if anything else is shared that um if you get off the context of the paragraph, we're going to stop you.

And uh people don't like to be stopped when they're sharing in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, >> right? >> Um we've had people storm out of there on a regular basis. Um you know, but what's more important?

One individual's opinion of and and entitlement to what that they should be they're in an AA meeting and should be able to share whatever they want or the whole group's conscience that we're going to have a discussion on the paragraph that's read, right? Um you know in that meeting um the group comes the group's conscience comes before any individual um and uh that has um been a constant source of growth for me. All right.

Um, it's so easy to get into Alcoholics Anonymous and do whatever you do and go to your meetings and do whatever your sponsor says and hang around here for a while and say, "Okay, this is what AA is and that's all there is for me." And I've worked with a lot of people with a lot of time who got just that way. You know, thinking that that that uh Alcoholics Anonymous is only going to take me this far. Now I'm going to have to look for something to take me beyond Alcoholics Anonymous and look for therapy and look for various spiritual paths, men's groups, the all this other peripheral stuff that that gets brought into Alcoholics Anonymous.

Um, and the sad thing is is that uh my experience was is it was hard to find someone that knew anything about the 12 steps in 12step programs. And that's why I I went through five sponsors in the first year. Um I didn't know the first four.

Um I didn't know that there was anything better than the first four that I had. Um I just know that it was that it wasn't holding my interest. And uh and I got to the point where where my ideas were that I was going to have to figure out what's really going on here because I wasn't really getting it from the meetings or the or the uh sponsors that I was working with.

Uh I was actually um I had a couple sponsors where I was telling them what I think I should be doing, >> right? Uh but that's me. Uh and the bad part was is they listened, right?

Um, and the fact is is that a lot of people don't know how to sponsor people in Alcoholics Anonymous. Um, they know how to be a friend. They know how to listen to um their problems and how to be compassionate to those problems, right?

And and sometimes offer some great advice, right? But but I think that I guess I I want to start off with with that kind of direction because, you know, we're so used to uh so used to looking at the steps in a linear fashion with one at the top and 12 at the at the bottom. I like to look at it more like a clock face, right?

Um with 12 back to back with one. And uh you know cuz when I'm working my 12th step when I'm working with somebody else and we're talking about their first step, right? There's something that happens when I'm working with someone that was like me.

Um a lot of people look at that from a a different perspective when they talk about singleness of purpose and one alcoholic working with another alcoholic. They think that that person is an alcoholic, needs an alcoholic to talk to them. I kind of think that's backwards.

I kind of like the the idea or believe more that that what happens is that I as someone with time and knows how to work with people need to go back and work with people that were like me and hear their perspective cuz their perspective is like like fresh right out of the pits, right? And as we're sharing experiences and I'm listening to them talk to me about about what they've gone through, right, I connect at a deep spiritual level because they're talking about my old life, right? They're talking about the way I used to be.

And uh so so even though we're going to start in the introduction and work through one and this is all really about the 12step for me because it's about um it's about having a deeper understanding of what our program's about and hopefully maybe get a some people excited about doing some more. All right. And and more would be being being brought to a place where I could share that experience with people.

uh at more than just an intellectual level or more than just a psychological level, right? But it is really at a spiritual level and to find out what that really means, right? And um so those are my two main groups.

um the Tuesday night as outlined in the book and the book study and and uh that uh and I'm there every week every week at both of those meetings and uh I work my life around those meetings, you know, and uh just because I have 22 years of sobriety, I don't believe that um the meetings are any less important for me. Um I think that a fellowship is has a lot of um a big part in this whole thing. I mean if you look at I don't know does the Canadian book still have the circle in the triangle this out of the Canadian book too?

Okay. Yeah. They took the circle in the triangle out of that title page um many years ago.

Well, they took this circle and triangle out and and the problem that I see with that it was just so useful with um there was so many um ways to look at that circle and triangle. I think that it was sad that it got taken out really because I from a number of different levels because first of all it's a good place to start with asking what is alcoholics anonymous right um usually I ask that question people just kind of like look at me like slanted and their head slanted like where's he going with this right obviously Alcoholics Anonymous is the fellowship right and it's the recovery pro program outlined in the book and the service side of the triangle. There's three sides of that triangle that in the that title page and uh the unity side of the triangle I meant fellowship side.

So obviously the first contact I have with with Alcoholics Anonymous was the fellowship and uh and I got really involved with the fellowship and there was there was I believe a power that was working through the fellowship, right? I don't believe that that power was enough to keep me sober, but it was enough to get me started. And uh you know, and I don't look for pe for God in the group.

I don't believe that people are God and but I believe that there is an underlying power that I that seemed to have caught me and carried me um as far as it took me. And uh and that becomes a really good question. Um not only if you're new, but also if you've got time, right?

Cuz there's people with time that are some of them are more uncomfortable than people that are new, right? Do I have a home group? Do I have a fellowship that I'm committed to?

Right. That I show up to on a regular basis, right? Um, more times than not when I'm working with someone that can't stay sober, that's the first thing to go is the regular meetings.

Don't want to be accountable to anybody and certainly don't want to tell them that they're they're not sober anymore, right? But at a at another level, and I think that what Alcoholics Anonymous has that a lot of other recovery situations don't have is you can go to a 30 days, 60 days, a 90-day program, a six-month program. I've heard of two-year programs, right?

But nothing nothing like this where I where I'm I commit to it on a deep level for for for just about forever, right? But I don't go to meetings because I need you to keep me sober. I go to meetings because I go for what I can bring to the meeting, right?

And that's where uh and where I meet people to work with, right? So my reasons for going to meetings changed. But but in another another perspective is that there's people there that were are like me that I can connect with.

They're close friends that I've had for a long time that are like family. um people that in some ways are closer than some of my family, right? And um and that becomes really important for to that became really important to me for long-term sobriety, right?

Because because it's a community that I want to be a part of that I care about and people that care about me. Um but again, as I said, I don't believe that meetings alone can keep me sober. All right.

And then uh cuz I I had gone to a lot of meetings in the first few months of my sobriety and met a lot of people and heard a lot of talk and heard things like uh if you're here, you've done the first three steps, right? And the the fact of the matter was is that uh I didn't really believe I was as bad as you. And I was sure that I wasn't going to be this God thing because what when I came into the program, I had trashed another business.

I had trashed a marriage. Um she she um moved out uh just before I got sober. And uh you know, in my mind, there was no God that cared about me.

And that's all you guys were talking about. The back of my hair would raise, right? So, how could I have possibly have done the first three steps just by walking in the door?

It wasn't clear what was wrong with me and wasn't clear that I needed the solution that you were talking about, nor did I understand what that meant. All right. But I knew that I was supposed to get a sponsor and I was and I and I was told that uh just find someone that has what you want, right?

That was tough. Look around the room. Who has what I want, right?

Cuz I don't know what to look for, right? So, what kind of car do they drive? What kind of job did they have?

What does their girlfriend look like? Who did they hang with? Right?

Who do they were they? And because I still thought that there was something that I needed to put together outside of myself that would that would make me feel like I thought I needed to feel that would make me whole. I still believed that the solution was out here.

And as far as the God thing as I figured I was going to figure out I'm a smart guy and I knew I would figure out what's really working for you guys, right? and and uh so I burned through a few sponsors and uh and I ended up uh walking into a meeting in Santa Monica and actually my home group as outlined in the book meeting um that uh where where I finally met my the guy that was became my sponsor until he died. Um I met him in 1989.

His name was was Joe H from Santa Monica and uh he passed away in 2007 um living in Brazil of natural causes. Had a heart attack in his sleep, which seems actually like a good way to go to me, you know, to be fine moving around and then all of a sudden boom, you're gone. You don't wake up.

So, and I was used to these other sponses that I mean sorry, sponsors that didn't really know what to do with me or with probably with anybody, but um and I started to discuss with him what I thought we needed to do and he just kind of stopped me and he says, you know, let me just explain to you what what my sponsor Don P from Colorado who's always already also I'm sorry, also passed away. Um, let me explain to you what he showed me. We'll do that first and then we can go off and play with this thing later on after you finished it the first time.

And I didn't know what to say about that cuz here was the first person I came across that had a plan, right? Who knew what he was we were going to do and he wasn't really interested at all in what I thought we we were going to we should do. Um, and that impressed me.

um amongst other things, you know, because I when I started going to this meeting that he was a part of. Looking back, I see what they meant by finding someone that has what you want, right? But I don't know that I was in a place to understand that until I looked back cuz I saw that this group wasn't talking about staying powerless.

They were they were talking about accessing power. They weren't talking about things like um you'll never finish amends or you don't have to. They were saying you have to finish amends, right?

They were in fact you couldn't even speak at that meeting or you couldn't even share. All you could do is ask questions if you hadn't finished amends a set of amends. And uh that put some importance on it.

All right. And uh so he he basically just his instructions were simple. We're just going to start at the beginning of the book, read the book, but not only read the book like a novel, but read it like a textbook.

And we're going to consider what it says. We're going to pray when it says pray. We're going to write when it says write, and all the instructions will come out of the book.

And it was simple as that. And it sounded easy enough. But he had all these assignments for me to do along that that way.

Certain notes in the book and and turning statements into questions for consideration. It's so easy to to read the book and say and see read Bill's story and say poor Bill, right? He was he was he had a really bad life, right?

But but I was asked to go through that and just ask um did I drink like Bill did? I think like Bill, right? Right.

Did I Did I feel like Bill? Right. And it it put a personal experience put my experience onto the the process, not your experience onto me or my or Joe's experience uh onto me.

He wasn't telling me that I'm alcoholic. In fact, he said he said uh you don't even really know what an alcoholic is. And that was true.

He says, "Maybe you're not even an alcoholic." Right? And that was I had mixed emotions about that because if that's true, I wasted nine months, right? 9 months of drinking.

That's what came to my mind actually of not drinking. Um, you know, but at the same time it was scary because I had got all my AA friends and and uh and uh you know, so there was mixed emotions there. But the the truth is is I never really was looking for a club to join.

I I didn't really necessarily like the idea that I was going to have to be an alcoholic and that I could never drink again. Right? I didn't stop because I didn't like it.

Right? Um so he told me to pray and and just set aside everything I think I know for an open mind and a new experience. And and we just started going through the book asking, you know, was this me?

Was this me? I've I had listened to a lot of speaker tapes. I had read other books that they have in the 12step stores.

I had skimmed through this book and and read it, as I said, like a novel at first, never really getting much out of it, right? But uh there was something different when I attached my experience to it, right? And what I what I found was is that every step of the way, it was like a journey inside deeper and deeper.

um looking at the truth about how I drank and and where that comes from, the the mental state that precedes that and and what and what came before that and and just each step of the way um chipped away at a little bit more of the idea that I don't need God or that I don't need you people, right? And I and and I and that had to be chipped away because I wasn't I was completely an atheist when I got here. And the idea of this being a spiritual program was very kind of bothersome to me.

I mean, what is a spiritual program? And and how can one really rely that there's a God? You know, those were all questions that that uh you know, that that came to my mind.

It's like, how could you possibly even believe that this even is? How could you possibly know that this is a spiritual problem? Right?

I didn't know any of that. And so, and I had to be shown and I had to have an experience with what all that means in order to go along with the idea that I need a power greater than myself. And um and uh I found that uh anytime I've read the book or anything I've read on God depended a lot on there being at least a little bit of an element of willingness, right?

And I hadn't had it. I mean, the only thing that ever got me to willingness was the consequences of my drinking, right? You know those those those those mornings where you get up and you go, "God, help me." And they said, "You know, you got to go to work and you you've done it again and you stayed up drinking and and uh you know, or passed out somewhere and it wasn't home." And uh you know, the consequences is what is, you know, of my life is what brings me to the place where I just look up and say, you know, God help.

And that's from an atheist or agnostic perspective. Right. Right.

So it's it's the pain and suffering the the the the uh you know the devastating experiences in my life that uh that ultimately take me to God. Right? And and that's what the 12step process had to show me.

You know, I I remember early on that there was people in the program that didn't want you to talk about alcohol in meet even in meetings or it's they warned against even discussing your drinking. Whereas you I don't see how I could have possibly um got to the place that I got to by ignoring my drinking. How can you do a step one ignoring the experience of your drinking?

I don't know. Um and and that brings up another problem with the 12 steps. Um a lot of people are coming into the program a lot younger now, right?

They didn't have wives, uh sorry, marriages to trash. They didn't have businesses to to lose, homes to wreck, right? Um you know, so it's it gets a little more complicated when you start working with some of those pe some really young people.

But, you know, I called uh Narcotics Anonymous at 17 years old and I cuz I was concerned about some a little cocaine habit I just I started to pick up. >> Um, you know, the the tequila or the whiskey didn't seem to bother me so much, but this cocaine thing really scared me and and uh cuz I was using a gram a month. That was it.

It was scared me. I don't know. So I called Darcotics Anonymous and I said, "You know, I think I have this problem." And the guy started asking me some questions and he just said, "You know what?

I don't think you need us yet, but keep our number. >> >> I did lose the number, but I did I did find it again. But uh this goes back to the talk about people that are young coming into the program.

It's like um if I was if if there was somebody there that I was talking to that would look at my drinking and the way I was living and you know I I would have probably avoided a lot of a lot of things that turned my life upside down a lot sooner if somebody was knew enough about the situation to ask a little deeper than what I was saying um and to look around what I was talking to them about. Uh but still I I think that uh in some ways I see it that that getting getting stopped too soon uh could rob someone of a firststep experience. That would be another problem.

Right. So the the uh but still um I need somebody that could take me through this process through the recovery process outlined in the book. Um, I know there's other ways to do it.

I know that some people like the 12 and 12. I know that some people like other literature from hospitals. Um, I've had some experience with a number of different things and nothing gave me the promises that are in this book from working other stuff out of the other books.

I had to do what was in this book to get these promises. And uh, and that's and that was my experience. And uh the other thing I'd like to say about that is is there there's two ways to that I that uh I see people coming to this.

I just finished working with a guy where by 9 months he had he had finished the whole process with me and it's practically finished with all his amends. Um he's sitting on a couple of them which we're talking about right now. And uh um but he took one he took a year last Monday his first year and on that day somebody with 5 years asked him to to take him through the process right and he's only got his first year right now.

That's not common in most of Alcoholics Anonymous for someone with no time to sound like they know something that valuable. And that was my experience is that is by the time I had 5 years I was hanging around a men's stag. We were frequented by people with 20 to 35 years of sobriety.

And I was working with a lot of them, right? Um sometimes it's not about how much time you've got, but what you've done with the time you you've been here, right? There's people with a lot of time that don't know how to sponsor people.

Um I'm actually going to be starting with someone with 35 years when I get back, right? in in about a month after some things get behind him. And uh he's not even sure if he's an alcoholic or an addict, right?

Um and that's a concern for him. That's wasn't my concern. That was what he told me is he doesn't know what really what that really means.

Um and he's afraid to find out he's not right. Again, it wouldn't be for me to tell him what he is. We just start at the beginning of the book, see what the book says.

You either relate to it or you don't relate to it. You know, you either see your own truth or you don't. And the reason that it's important, I believe, to see what's true for me.

Again, it's because I have to see what I need an act of God to save me from in order to buy this whole package, in order to go along with the whole program. You know, what do I need an act of God to save me from? Right?

I didn't need an act of God to save me from people, places, and things. Right? Need an act of God to stop me from drinking again.

Right? And uh anyway, I got off the track. Sorry.

We're talking about this guy with that uh this one guy has a year. Uh, I caught him right at the beginning before he got any picked up any bad habits and it was good cuz he was a sponge. People that are new sometimes are easier to work with than people with time, right?

But I get a lot of people with a lot of time that have not never gone through the steps uh in a thorough way. And I see that uh there's a lot of old ideas to work around and uh you know, you've been here a long time. you I I I see this in myself.

My ego attaches to what I know and I believe I know the real truth about the real truth and sometimes that's what that can what can block me from growing. Um which is why I continue to go through the process on a regular basis. I don't I'm not living off of my first pass through the 12 steps.

But I I meet I meet people with with time in the program that uh they really haven't done too much, right? And and I can't tell you how many times I've worked with people that nobody want anything that that they had to offer. They go through the process and now they know how to work with people cuz they've had the the experience of going through the process themselves and all of a sudden people start asking them to work with them.

Right. Right. So, some people are attracted to just time, but but there's a different message when you really have a deep understanding of this process.

And uh and uh you know, it's and I'm and I'm not one that would stand up here and and and preach that there's a a right way and a wrong way, right? And I know some people like to do that and a lot of and I know that it's hard to stay out of that sometimes cuz I was there. I ran around with my big book and if you disagreed with me, I'd hit you over the head with it, right?

Telling you what page and what paragraph exactly what contradicts what you said, right? You know, and what I had to realize, those people that weren't doing it right are still sober. And who am I to say say someone's staying happy and sober wrong, right?

Nor do I attract everybody in the my city to work with me. They actually attract people to them, right? Go figure, right?

The fact is that is that Alcoholics Anonymous somehow has created this enormous net and there's a place for everybody. And I'm don't confuse me saying that I agree with what some people do, right? But uh I'll attract the people that want what I have and they'll attract the people that want what they have and some somehow hopefully it'll all balance out spiritually, right?

and uh and uh you know having a real tolerance for other people's viewpoints and shortcomings are what makes me more useful to people with time because if I take a hard stand and come at you and saying you're doing it wrong and you might not even be an alcoholic and and you've got twice as much time as I have you know it's not very well received right but I did that when I was young in sobriety I did that I was guilty of that right and and I come to the realization that maybe all this technical information and this deep thought about the 12 steps and and how it works and all the way my mind digs into this maybe that's really not a testament to much how much healthier than them they are that I am but maybe more of a testament to how much sicker I was than they are and they just they just were able to come here and get it at a simpler level, right? But what I realized, and I mentioned it slightly a moment before, but the thing that gets me to God is not virtue, right? When I really understand what's wrong with me and the desperate nature of my problem, right?

And my inability to change the way I'm living on my own, right? It's that it's that desperation that takes me to God, right? And the more desperate I I feel, the harder I'm going to turn to God, right?

So, it's really important that I understand what it's what this says here, at least for someone like me that has a problem relying that there's a God that'll work in my life. Right. You need to prove it to me.

Show me what that's going to do for me and why I need it. Right. Right.

Because I I wasn't born wanting to just have a a life full of God, right? That wasn't my path, you know? I wanted to be God, right?

You know, so I so on a number of different levels, the the uh the 12step process had to had to bring me to this place that that I could really really um surrender to that idea. And then it had to continue to prove it to me. It showed me how to how to access the power and direct the power and live with that power.

All right? And that and that'll probably come up tomorrow. All right?

Because it's so easy even if you've had if you feel like you have a spiritual program, right? It's still hard to to get that idea out of the back of your head. At least for me, it is that idea that, you know, maybe maybe there really is no God, right?

You know, I have to get to the place where I've gotten far enough and deep enough into the process where it gets proven to me over and over again, right? First that there is something I can turn to and then proof that it'll work in my life. Right?

And uh and the fact is is that I don't always see that proof in my own life, right? I'm like the last person to see my own growth. But you know, when you're working with someone, you know, like this this new guy that I'm working with, who's a pleasure, by the way, you know, cuz it's he hangs on every word I say.

And you know, you know, yes, there's a little ego involved. Okay. Yeah, this is Josie steals my stuff so I can't share after him.

But uh but you watch how they come in to the program and you watch their lives transform through the process, right? And it wasn't that anything I did. It it wasn't like I I didn't I can't keep him sober.

I can't fix his life. I just showed him what I do in this book, right? And something else transformed his life and he became what he became.

And that was between him and God. And and he is and I see that in him, right? And I see proof.

I see the proof of the power of this program and the power of God working in his life, right? Much quicker than I see it in my own, right? But nonetheless, if I didn't have this program to continually prove that to me, I would stray.

I know that because I seem to default into self-will, right? I seem to default into running my own life, right? Which is why the third part of that triangle, the service side becomes so important.

Now, a lot of people like to look at that service side as what they do in the meetings. The thing is when you read this book, they're not going to talk much about meetings. I think there's one sentence referring to meetings in the whole front of the book.

The service side that they were talking about in the beginning and through this book and not because I'm saying that what you're doing for Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole is bad. It's part of it. I just in this context and and going through the big book.

I bunch all of that stuff that you do in meetings and and that service work is participating in the fellowship, setting up chairs, making coffee. Some people call it surface. I call it being a part of your fellowship, being a part of your home group.

Right. Right. because working with others is what is what they found right from the beginning that did more for them than anything else.

And a lot of people have excuses why they can't do that. One of the big ones is I don't know how to do it right. Well, there's a way around that.

There is a way around that, you know, and it's a very organic process, you know. You just have to do it yourself first, right? you know, and then you just do the same thing with someone else.

It's that simple. Um, so when I had this deep experience with this 12step process, I moved into that service side with a conviction that I really had something that I wanted to share, right? And um, a lot of people miss that and that's sad.

Um, and I'll talk more about that tomorrow, too. I know about the kind of instructions I give my people when we get into step 12, right? Um, you know, because the excuse that nobody ever asked me is not a very good one considering what they went through in the beginning to find people to work with, right?

Um cuz in the beginning they had to go pull them off bar stools which didn't work so well but going into hospitals and and and being referred to people going out and finding people. You don't have to put that much work into it these days. You go to a meeting and they they show you who they are cuz meetings they any newcomers you know.

Right. Right. So we'll talk about you know I mean I'm in a sales business.

If I was able to pose a question to a group like this, who's interested in what I have to sell and they raised their hands, I'd be on you, right? I wouldn't be waiting for you to come to me, right? Anyway, we'll get more into that tomorrow.

Um, but it's that service side. What should I talk about with that? I think what I'll where I'm going to go to with this now is is those are three really important questions to to start off with.

Where am I with my fellowship? Do I have one? Am I committed to a group?

A lot of people are. Some people absolutely are not, right? Um am I familiar with the recovery process outlined in the book?

Am I am I in it? Am I working it? you know, there's stuff to do constantly with that recovery process and um am I looking for people to work with and and how effective am am I?

Do I feel that I fall short in that and I need to do better? Right? Those are that's what Alcoholics Anonymous is.

And I can't tell you how many people I meet that don't know what to do with people and so they're not working with people. They couldn't tell you what's in this book. Right.

Right? But they have meetings they go to regularly because that's where that's where they have to go to to dump their unsolved problems because they're living in a powerless lifestyle and it takes a lot of power to live powerlessly. Right.

Right. You know, without a an alcoholic without a solution um is a tough way to live. Right.

And many people in the program resort to therapy and and all kinds of things. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying therapy is bad. It has its place, right?

Um but ultimately they'll refer you if you're an alcoholic, they'll refer you back to us anyway, right? Um cuz there because even though I even if therapy shows me the truth about something, I still don't have the power to do anything different, right? And this is what this is about.

This is about learning how to access some power and how to direct that power and use it in my life. So, uh I use the contents page in the book to kind of lay out a plan of action. I call the uh the front of the book, for lack of a better word, uh just the general information of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And uh there's a couple important points that I think I'd like to stress. Um and that's everything in the Roman numerals page. Um there's a lot in there.

Um I actually have a CD with me reading all of that that I can if somebody's interested, I can show tell you where to download it off the internet for free. Um but uh we can get to that another time. Um well, but there's just so much in here.

But the part that I think becomes really important um is the part uh where Bill first goes to Bob. And on page XV, if you want if you have your books and you want to follow along, it says the spark that was to flare into the AA group. That's the first AA group was struck in Akran, Ohio in June 1935 during a talk between a New York stock broker and an Akran physician.

Does everybody know what kind of physician Dr. Bob was? >> Right?

Can you imagine if you had an alcoholic problem and someone referred you to a proctologist? You'd have to really want to get sober, wouldn't you? Right.

Um, but the interesting thing about that is is uh Bill was a stock broker when you didn't have to be licensed to be a stock broker. He was actually a stock speculator. So people really had to trust your ability, right?

And Dr. Dr. Bob was specializing in a field that wasn't actually taught in school yet, right?

And uh he um you know he was he was known for this specialty then. And the point is is they were very smart people, right? They were very sharp people that that uh probably thought quite well of themselves.

Does that sound familiar? 6 months earlier, the broker had been relieved of his drink obsession by a sudden spiritual experience following a meeting with an alcoholic friend, which was Ebie Thatcher, who had been in contact with the Oxford groups of that day. Uh the Oxford group was like a fundamentalist Christian society that uh was actually helping a lot of people.

They thought that their program would help everybody. Um except uh Dr. Bob actually didn't want to tarnish his his his name in the community, so he didn't ever talk about his alcoholism with them.

Uh he kept it a secret, he thought. They all actually knew though, and they were actually uh uh it was no s they knew exactly that. Well, the way that that situation was is that you had to stand up and admit what's wrong with you and turn to God for help with that.

They didn't tell you what's wrong with you. You had to just admit it. And they were waiting for him to stand up and just say, "I'm an alcoholic." And it wasn't happening.

Um, okay. Oops. That day, he had also been greatly helped by the late Dr.

uh William D. Silkworth, a New York specialist in alcoholism who's now accounted no less than a medical saint by AA members and whose story of the early days of our society appears in the next pages. Okay.

I would say that if Dr. Silkworth is if they're referring to him as a as a a saint to us, right, that would mean there was something really important about the doctor's opinion, right, that we need to know about. And I and that's the part that I think it's stressing here is the importance of of the doctor's opinion.

And uh u and it it says something here that's real important to know to note. It says from this doctor the broker had learned the grave nature of alcoholism. Though he didn't accept all the tenants of the Oxford group, he was convinced of and it's going to name five things.

the need for moral inventory, confessions of personal defects, restitution to those harmed, helpfulness to others, and the necessity of belief in and dependence upon God. There's five things there, and there were six tenants of the Oxford group, right? Which means there was one that he didn't completely agree with, right?

Cuz he he it says uh he could not accept all the tenants of the Oxford group, but he was convinced of the need for these five things. So, wouldn't it be good to know what that one is that he couldn't accept? >> Right.

Um, okay. In my fourth edition, I work between a fourth edition and a third edition. So, I have to figure out which uh pages it's on in this book.

263. All right. 263 in the fourth edition, 292 in the third edition.

These are not the six tenants of the Oxford group. These were something that was adapted for al early alcoholics anonymous but it was very similar. The five that he could accept is 2 through six.

The one that he couldn't accept complete deflation of ego. Can any of you guys relate to not accepting complete deflation of ego? Right.

So down the page where it starts off, the physician um Bill found himself out of town. Um and uh he um he was in a place where he felt like he was going to drink, right? and what he what he had been going through over the last 6 months, what he he was pulling uh drunks off bar stools trying to get him sober.

They weren't necessarily people that wanted to get sober, but they but they were offered a place to stay and food and you know, so um you know, kind of like a sober living >> for free. Um, but he found himself out of town in and uh in Akran and he he started calling around to see if he could find a drunk. And he had he went down this long list of of calls that he had put out trying to find someone that he could talk to.

And one of those one of those calls actually got him in touch with a woman named um Henrietta Sebring. And Henrietta Sebring turns out was a member of the Oxford group in Akran. It happened to be the one that that Dr.

Bob was in. And uh Bill explained what he was looking for that he's an alcoholic and he needs to find an alcoholic that he can talk to in order for him to stay sober himself. And you know what Henrietta Sebrling responded with?

He says, "Thank God we've been waiting for you." >> Yes. >> Right. That always sends chills up my spine.

And as it turns out that, see, the Oxford group would get into these little prayer circles and when and they wanted they wanted God to help Dr. Bob somehow. And they would pray for God to send something to Dr.

Bob that would help him. And now she gets this phone call from Bill saying, "Hey, I'm looking for an alcoholic to talk to, right?" You know, so, you know, they, you know, they just looked at that as as just the miracle. Now, um you could say it was coincidence.

You can say whatever you like, but you know, um it it was what it was. And and that's what initiated their first meeting. The physician, we're talking about Dr.

Bob, had repeatedly tried spiritual means to resolve his alcoholic dilemma, but it failed. So, he had the solution. He was going to the Oxford group and he was going to church.

Right? But I believe that just like Bill is he couldn't accept complete deflation of ego. Right?

Because but when the broker gave him Dr. So's description of alcoholism and its hopelessness, the physician began to pursue the spiritual remedy for his malady with a willingness he had never been never before been able to muster. Right?

The truth about the problem, right? And the realization that he absolutely cannot stop on his own and the desperation of that was what got him to this place where the solution could could work. Just a belief in God was not enough for him, right?

Because he had to believe less in himself, right? When it came to this sort of thing, he had to see that he he couldn't stop that there was no way he was ever going to stop on his own. Desperation is what took him to God, right?

He was he had some virtue obviously because he was going to spiritual venues, spiritual places like the Oxford group and church. Right. Right.

But something had to change at a deeper level for him to really go along with the God idea. And he's sobered never to drink again up to the moment of his death. So, I'd say it's really it would be really important for us to know what the uh what the doctor's opinion says about an alcoholic, right?

And that's where my step one begins. I look at um I look at doctor's opinion as the beginning of step one. Um, in uh more about alcoholism is where I look at step two in uh I'm sorry I screwed that up.

In we agnostics I look at step two right in the beginning of how it works on page 58 is where I where I look at step start to look at step three. Um, after that, after step three, it it starts to tell you where the step is, right? Before that, it doesn't tell you where step one is and step two is, but after that, it does.

Um, and that was that was a big question that got answered for me, too, because, you know, there's a lot of people that couldn't tell you where step one is in the big book, right? They look in the 12 and 12 for step one cuz it says step one, >> right? Um, and don't get me wrong, the 12 and 12 is a valuable piece of Bill's material and and Bill had wrote some really cool stuff, but I don't I believe that if there would have been more than four pages for step one, if they meant it to replace the big book because if you really read step one and the 12 and 12 critically, it refers to you have already talked to your sponsor about this, right?

and that it's more of a more of a something to read, I believe, when you've already understand what this is about through the big book, right? It was never written to replace the big book. Let's we're going to take a break until um 8:30.

Can we take our seats, please? >> Thank you. >> All right.

So, >> >> I uh I started drinking when I was uh like 15 and a half. Was hanging around a gas station and uh this was back in the in the uh late60s and there was a lot of stuff going around. There was uh going on at the time.

There's the Vietnam War. There was hippies. There was all kinds of stuff going on.

And I didn't necessarily care about any of it. >> Andy Warhol. Yeah.

I um I had my little group of friends and and we would just hang outside of liquor stores and wait for someone to go in and buy us booze, right? And did the teenage thing. And I uh by the time I was 16, I figured there was nothing left that they could possibly teach me that I knew so much already.

I that I had stopped going to school, right? Um I showed up in the morning for photography class, but I left right after that. I happened to like photography.

I got an A in photography, by the way. Um >> but the other and that was only for the first semester. After that, it was I was pretty much done with school till they were done with me and kicked me out, which didn't really matter cuz I wasn't going anyway.

So, what I would do, but I was jump on my little motorcycle and and drive over to the next town, which is Culver City, and honk my horn um for my friends to come out because they went to a different high school. And then we'd go hang out at the beach or at the gas station that I hung out at. and and basically all we did was uh party and whatever that meant back then.

Um didn't necessarily matter what we did as far as drugs. If somebody had something, we tried it. You some of you probably relate to this.

You know, you take it and say, "By the way, what was that?" Right? >> So, I experimented with a lot of different things, but certain things standed stood out. Uh primarily um I really liked alcohol, right?

And I actually really liked cocaine as well. >> Mhm. >> And between those two things, they became like the most important thing in my life.

And uh you know, back in the in the 60s, you know, there was a lot of of LSD going around. There was a lot of different kinds of drugs and and I and I um smoked pot. And there was what we had back then was these they'd refer to as for $10 you'd get a four-finger lid, right?

Some of you probably remember that there's a baggie filled that high with marijuana, right? For $10. Um, from what I understand, a couple hits is the same as smoking the whole bag.

So, I can't even imagine that. So, it's much different now. But but somebody walked up to me, actually my stepbrother walked up to me in this gas station.

He said, "Dan, you know, you're starting sentences and you're not finishing them." And I thought, "That's that's a problem." And I didn't like the idea of that. So I told myself, I got to quit smoking marijuana. And I quit.

Made a decision and I quit. You know, there was other stuff. There was this they called it angel dust.

I don't know if you had that here. PCP. >> And I know I didn't see any angels ever, but uh >> um I kept telling myself, I've got to stop doing this.

And and eventually I did stop. But it took, you know, I don't know why I ever did it. Every time I did it, I said, why am I doing this, you know, but I but I stopped, right?

I didn't need an act of God to save me from those things, right? That's the point, right? Um, as time went on, um, you know, I had these dreams, these aspirations of who I was going to be and what I was going to become.

I had a I I came from a family that was, um, was very fairly successful in the clothing industry. Uh, both my grandparents, my uncles, uh, my father. Um I was sure that there was nothing less for me that I was going to be someone and uh and the uh you know and it was kind of disturbing to finally get to the point where I'm sitting on my couch in uh 1987 looking at my life going what happened?

what happened. You know, I really believe that that it was just a matter of of being serious and finally wanting to quit and one day I would quit, right? And and I, you know, but I'm looking around my life thinking, you know, I was 32 years old.

I had the wife had moved out. the uh I was basically um living in an apartment that in a building that I was managing. So nobody knew that I was couldn't afford to pay rent.

So that's stealing, right? Although I didn't think of it as stealing at the time cuz I felt that my job was so important that I deserved this, >> right? But then my my job got so important that I thought it was even worth a paycheck, >> right?

um which it wasn't uh but you know but I was I was in survival mode because I had I got to the point where for the for the previous 3 or 4 years I was drinking way out of control doing cocaine way out of control and uh to the point where I had this factory in in uh uh that I picked frame factory, just ran it to the ground. You know, by the time I was done, it was all I could do to sell off all the equipment to pay off whatever bills I could and and uh and just basically um waste the rest of the money on alcohol and drugs and uh and just left me in this place of, you know, just completely bewildered by why how could somebody with so much potential be in such a bad place, right? Um, and I was sure that it was just the drugs.

So, I stopped the the cocaine altogether, right? Um, always knowing that in the back of my mind that that the fact was I I didn't really believe that I was going to be able to stay away from the drugs for good because it kept talking to me. Um, but I absolutely knew that uh that uh the alcohol was such a big part of my life.

I couldn't perceive a life without it. yet the consequences were were be were becoming more and more obvious in my life, right? Um, but I couldn't see a life without it.

So, I figured that just stopping the drugs would be enough and that I would taper off with the alcohol. And that was in 1987. And I made this commitment to myself that I was going to that I was going to not drink enough for there to be consequences in my life.

Right? I still believed that I could do that. drink just enough to just before the consequences, >> right?

Um, again, I mentioned this before is I didn't I loved drinking. I didn't stop because I didn't like drinking, right? I hated the consequences though in my life, right?

Um, and I believe that uh if there was not if I there was no consequences, it would have been really hard to do a step one, right? Um, luckily, I think I was graced with consequences, right? Um, and I I absolutely didn't understand what was wrong, you know, but and that was why the doctor's opinion was so important to me.

Um, on page XXVI of the doctor's opinion, it says, "The physician who at our request gave us this letter has been kind enough to enlarge upon his views in another statement which follows. In this statement, he confirms what we who have suffered alcoholic torture must believe." Right? Right.

my alcoholic torture was being completely baffled by the impact that alcohol was having on my life, right? And absolutely not understanding why this thing that was that I thought was feeding me was really bring me to a point of it was really starving me spiritually to death, right? Um couldn't understand why I was in such total lack of control.

It says sushing lost my place. Let's follow um what's believe that that we must believe that the body of the alcoholic is quite as abnormal as his mind. So now it's making a differentiation between my body and my mind.

Right? It says it did not satisfy us to be told we could not control our drinking just because we were maladjusted to life. we were in full flight from reality or were outright mental defectives.

These things were true to some extent, in fact, to a considerable extent with some of us. I believe that is all true for me. But those are all things that went on in my mind, right?

Those are things that that were I think that they're making a differentiation between that this is what's going on my mind, but let's look at the physical results of your drinking. Forget about what you're thinking about drinking. Forget about the obsessions.

Forget about any of that stuff. Just look at the facts. Right?

Says, "But we are sure that our bodies were sickened as well. In our belief, any picture of the alcoholic which leaves out this physical factor is incomplete." Right? Drop it.

So, what does normal drinking look like? I know, wrong crowd to ask, right? You know, my grandmother, you know, she's everybody used to always buy her booze for presents for Christmas and whatever.

And she always used to say, "I don't know why people buy me all of this stuff." It was always the sweet stuff, the Bailey's, the, you know, the And I remember one day she got this like giggle, right? She says, "You want to get drunk?" I thought, "Oh, God, no. Not with my grandmother." And so she took a couple little glasses and poured a couple drinks, right?

And I figured, okay. And it was at Bailey's, I think. Yeah, it was Bailey's.

And uh she took a couple sips and I took a couple sips and she took a couple sips and I took a couple sips and I think it went back and forth a couple times like that. And then she got this smile and this little giggle and she says, she says, "I'm starting to feel it. I better stop.

feel it. I better stop. That's so backwards to me.

Doesn't it start when I'm starting to feel it? Right. Right.

But that doesn't necessarily make me an alcoholic. Right. See, she can drink whenever she wanted without any consequences.

Right. she could take she she didn't have any problem with uh with that and many people don't right. So the doctor's theory that we have an allergy to alcohol interests us.

So what what was an allergy back when they wrote the book? Do you know there wasn't any allergy doctors back then? Right?

You couldn't go to a grocery store or a drugstore and see 10 ft of allergy remedies. They didn't have them. If somebody had an if a child had an allergy to to something in the environment, the the family would have to uh move or you do something.

It was just there was no cure for it. And it was it was different than two because um what an allergy was is a is a reaction to a substance that doesn't affect other people in the same way. And I thought, yeah, that's that's just like my drinking, right?

And it also if someone was like allergic to bee stings and they got stung by a bee, they'd have to rush them to the hospital and poke a hole in their throat so their hold it their throat didn't close up um cuz they could suffocate and die. People died from allergies. They still could without the right medication, right?

Um, but back then it was a life-threatening problem that affected some people in ways that didn't affect others, right? So, from that perspective, I can relate to having an allergy for alcohol. It's a physical reaction.

Much like if you're allergic to grass, some people can't I can't sit in grass without starting to itch. You know, is it got anything to do with what I'm thinking? Maybe afterwards I shouldn't have sat in that grass, but but nothing not.

It was it was a completely physical reaction. Now, if you went to a scientist or a doctor and said, "Uh they say I have an allergy to alcohol." You know, maybe they wouldn't completely agree with that. There's probably conflicting ideas as far as whether we're really allergic to alcohol, right?

But keeping in mind that they didn't necessarily completely understand what an allergy was back then, right? It was certainly like an allergy for me that I have a sensitivity to a substance to alcohol that affected me like it didn't affect a lot of my friends and for me it was definitely life-threatening and I couldn't do anything about it. There was no cure for it.

Right? So, as layman, our opinion as to its soundness may of course mean little, but as ex-pro drinkers, we can say that this explanation makes good sense. It explains many things for which we cannot otherwise account.

So, when I drank, drinking became more important than anything else that I was doing, right? Became more important than the client that I took to dinner. Um, I can't tell you how many times that they just left me at the bar, became more important than my my wife, right?

Um, you know, she actually thought I was cheating on her, but what she didn't, but that didn't really come out till later during a nightstep. But, uh, but I could see where where she could see that, where she could think that because I would I would make excuses to stay out and not come home and, uh, um, tell her that I'm behind in work and I have to sleep in my office. And I did sleep in my office.

So if she called, I was there, right? But I wasn't alone. And I'd have a bottle of Jack Daniels with me, right?

You know, and and the level of trust that that I was able to maintain with her was was almost scary, right? And uh the fact is is that when I drank, I drank to the point regularly that the consequences in my that that it affect the amount I drank affected me and my life and I had consequences in my life, right? and and uh people that control alcohol usually, you know, may not get consequences in their life.

Some can, right? But, you know, there's people that I knew that when they had consequences in their life from the way they were drinking, they would just say, "I can't do this because the results are are so so bad that I I can't do this." And uh you know, but there was there was some kind of disconnection with me because I really believed when I set out to drink that I was going to to not go out get out of control. Right?

It wasn't until I looked at the doctor's opinion that this started to click for me and the idea that that uh I can't start drinking without that thing happening. Right? That was what made Dr.

Silkworth such a medical saint to our society and what Bill talks about in the in the general information of the book. Right? That's why what Dr.

Silkworth was so what he said was so important to bring to Dr. Bob. And later those two brought that information to uh uh to uh gosh, I forgot to Bill Dodson, the attorney, the aa number three.

I have to know what I'm up against, right? I have to know that I that I can't start drinking without losing control. that I can't start drinking without consequences, right?

You know, and what follows the the uh doctor's opinion is Bill's story. And Bill's story is really an important experience for me to to to have when I when I was instructed to read Bill's story, underlining everywhere where I relate to how he felt, how he drank, how um how he how he thought, felt, and drank. Um and I really read Bill's story um setting aside the differences.

I wasn't in the service in a foreign town where I had my first drink. I was in a gas station in Culver City, right? Drinking with with other teenagers, right?

But that's where I felt like I was a part of life at last. But the thing about Bill's story is as I'm going through it, underlining how where it started, I I write in the notes next to in the margins next to Bill's story, how I relate to Bill's story. So, next to where he says he was in the service there, I was in the gas station.

And so, um, and you'll see as you go through Bill's story, there's a progression of his drinking. He's this is where it started. You know, this is this is my life with alcohol when it when it just seemed to be the way, you know, when it was important to me, right?

And it and somewhere around the uh page four, it starts to take a turn and decline until he hits this bottom on page eight. So, this is there's this curve. And if I can relate to Bill's story and underline a lot and make little notes in the margins all the way through, hopefully what I've ended up with is this is where I my drinking started.

This is what it what happened to it, right? And then this downturn near the end of my drinking and and how and how much I I tried to stop. >> See, it's going to be hard to it's going to be hard to see the depth of my hopelessness uh when I focus on how how much I enjoy drinking and how much I drank.

I have to at some point get to the point where I have to see that it got to the point in in in 1987 where I made some firm commitments that I was going to drink differently. Right? this has to stop.

I stopped the drugs, but for the next two years, um, I found myself walking to the liquor store over and over again, baffled by why I was still doing it, right? Um, cuz there's a there's a question that has to be asked is why is it if I see that I had consequences for how much I drank, why did I keep drinking? Why did I keep going in spite of losing businesses and and trashing relationships and marriages actually?

You know, why were why would why knowing that that it was affecting my life, why was it still so why couldn't I why couldn't I change the way I was living? You know, I' I'd go to sleep telling myself I I've got to stop doing this. And uh before I'd even open my eyes in the morning when I'd just as I'd wake up, the first thought that would come to my mind was when am I going to get up and walk to the liquor store and get some more whiskey?

Right? And that situation went on for the next two years. That kind of thinking uh where I found myself um talking out loud, walking to the liquor store just Why do I keep doing this?

So, somewhere around page 8, some of that stuff should come up as you're going through Bill's story. The second half of Bill's story, uh, page 9 through 16 will basically outline his program of recovery, and you can actually identify all the 12 steps in that in that section. uh just the the basic ideas of it.

And uh so there's a great um there's a great um description of of three different types of drinkers on page 20 where it talks about the moderate drinker, the hard drinker, and the real alcoholic. says the moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or live leave it alone.

I see that that wasn't me, right? When I came to the point where I absolutely knew that I had to stop living like this, right? Um I I couldn't stop.

Says then we have the certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mental mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time.

If sufficiently strong reason, ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor becomes operative, this man can stop or moderate. Although he may find it difficult or troublesome and may even need medical attention, right? There's people that medical attention will actually help.

you know, the uh the um a lot of a lot of meetings that I go to, they want to bash recovery programs, but hopefully they filter out the people that don't need us, right? The people that they can help. Um the fact was is that none of that stuff, ill health, falling at my wife, the changing environment, u warnings of the doctor, there was nothing that I could change in my life that would change the way I was drinking.

And I tried, you know, I I closed the factory down. I I stopped hanging around certain people. Um, I eliminated all this stuff out of my life thinking that if I just get this out of my life, then I then my life will change.

Um, till finally the only thing left was her, so it must be her fault. So I kicked her out, right? You know, she was so nice when I met her.

I don't know why she got so crazy. I know now why >> it was living with me >> I drove her that way. She just was baffled by the turn that that her life took as a result of the turn that my life took.

I think she went well there says but what about the real alcoholic? He may start off a moderate drinker and I did and it may he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption once he starts to drink. Right?

So now I see that I can relate to that part of it. Right? That I could not start drinking and know really what was going to happen.

All right. um the um and hopefully if I've attached all the experiences up to this point up in looking over the with the physical idea in mind and and how alcohol affects me. um it brings us to a to a summary and after each section um that I look at with step one, it'll summarize that in the last paragraph and where I see a shift from the physical allergy to the mental obsession is at the top of page 23.

So the last paragraph that I look at in referring to the physical craving is we know that while the alcoholic keeps away from drink as he may do for months or years, he reacts much like other men. We're equally positive that once he takes any alcohol whatever into his system, something happens both in the bodily and mental sense which makes it virtually impossible for him to stop. The experience of any alcoholic will abundantly confirm this.

Right? And I have to be clear on this. is moving on.

Just does my experience abundantly confirm that I can't start drinking without consequence, without losing control. Right. Right.

And and I saw that and it's again I got to separate what's going on in my mind with that. I look back at the history the of the trashed businesses and the trashed marriage and the and and and see how it's attached to how much I drank and how I was living. Right?

My experience abundantly confirmed that alcohol was impacting my life at a deep level. Right? Um, it was it was confused by those times when I did go out and have a drink with somebody and didn't have consequences.

And the delusion that I can control it was strong and and was so sure that one day I would straighten my life out. But the fact is that day never came and I never really knew when I would drink to to the point of consequence, right? I had no control over when that would be, right?

So that section ends with with a summary and it'll and the next section for the mental part will start with a question. These obs that we need and this question has to get answered in this next section. These observations would be academic and pointless which means they're good to know if but if you never took the first drink thereby setting that cycle in motion.

Um I'm sorry let me read that again. these observations would be academic, meaning it it's good to know and but it's pointless if you just never take that first drink, right? Therefore, um thereby setting that terrible cycle in motion.

So, that brings up the question, why is it when I saw that alcohol was such a consequence in my life and caused so many problems, why didn't I just stop drinking? Right? It says, "Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic center is in my mind rather than in in my body." And this par this sentence gets so pulled out of context, right?

And I'm going to get back to that. Okay? Um cuz we're still in the first half of step one.

We're not even in the second half of step one yet. Um, my experience with that story I started to tell is when I'd go to sleep telling myself, I've got to stop drinking like this and I'd wake up and the first thing that would come to my mind is um is um when am I going to get up and walk to the liquor store? And I'd take that long oneb block walk to the liquor store talking to myself out loud.

at me, what's wrong with me? Why do I keep doing this? Right?

And I would yell at myself, argue with myself, what's wrong with you? Right? I believe that I had such a strong will and it was true I did, right?

But for some reason, I it was go it was wasn't there when when it came to this the drinking situation. Now, you got to remember the times were different. This was 1987.

And it meant something completely different when somebody was walking down the street yelling at themselves. Now you just assume they're on their Bluetooth. Right?

In 1987 it meant something different which was more accurate and meant they were crazy. Right? So to go along with the idea that therefore the main problem of my of the alcoholic center is in his mind rather than his body.

Right? I could see that. I could see that that I had a mind that that for that just kept wanting to throw alcohol on it.

And you get people in the program that wants to tell you, well, today I just choose not to drink. Mhm. >> I wonder what the choice was when someone with time drinks.

>> Mhm. >> The fact is that most alcoholics for reason yet obscured have lost the power of choice and drink or so-called willpower becomes practically non-existent. We are unable at certain times to bring into our own consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago.

We are without defense against the first drink. I went two years in that place, baffled. I knew the truth.

I knew that I had to stop drinking, but completely baffled by my inability to to stop drinking. Um, not everybody experienced what I'm talking about. Um, some people get stopped quicker.

Um, I was I just happened to be in a situation that um I kept myself in a situation where nobody really had control or or any influence on my life. Um, I was managing where I was living. As I said, I wasn't paying rent.

Threw the wife out. Got her out of the way cuz I knew that wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't nagging me like she was. Um, you know, I I was basically on this on this path to just continue as I was.

Um, and nothing externally was in place to stop me. I had a regenerating bank account every month. I had rents come in.

Um, and mind you, I I didn't own the building. So, I know it sounds good, but it wasn't my building. Um, the next paragraph on page 24 after that choice paragraph talks about thinking it through.

The almost certain consequences that follow taking even a glass of beer do not crowd into the mind to deter us. If these thoughts occur, they are hazy and readily supplanted with the old thread bear threadbear idea that this time we shall handle handle oursel like other people. there is a complete failure of the kind of defense that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove.

Right? That's that's one of the first definitions of insanity for me in the book. The failure of the kind of defense uh that keeps one from putting his hand on a hot stove.

You know, I must have been about four or five years old when I got a bunch of uh extension cords, right? And I uh for some reason got the idea that I was going to plug them a bunch of extension cords into outlets and then connect them in the middle, right, with some scissors. That experience left me in a place with deep respect for electricity.

You know, I never had the urge to do that again, right? But when it came to alcohol and what it was doing to my life, right, that same that same ability to that same uh um mental defense just wasn't there, right? Um and as I said, it went on for uh for years.

So So my drinking took me to the place where I um where I absolutely was baffled and consigned myself to the idea that I was just going to keep drinking until I was dead. Um, I hadn't actually heard about Alcoholics Anonymous before. I didn't know what I was going to do.

Um, I started seeing a therapist. Um, again, I'm not bashing therapists. I think some of them are can be really helpful.

It's just a good idea to find someone that knows something about alcoholism, right? Who's AA friendly. And I think it's important to not do things in AA to make them dislike us so that they can refer us to AA.

And I don't know if it happens here in Canada, but um a lot of people will bad bow therapists in meetings in where I come from. Um not really conducive for them to refer people to us, right? Um, you know, there there is more and more I'm being made aware of programs where they're trying to familiarize new therapists with what we can do, >> right?

And I don't I think we have to be careful not to do anything to mess up that situation and you know, but it is advisable to find someone that is familiar with with u with what the options are for people who are recovering. Um my particular choice AA never came up. Uh so um we've all um we've all probably read the story of the Jaywalker, >> right?

And that always had had a really profound impact on me. Um, in fact, I don't know if anybody's ever been to the website thejaywalker.com. That was mine.

That's mine. It's got a bunch of odd stuff that I've written. So, if you're ever moved to go look, you're welcome to do that.

Um, but it says, "Our behavior is absurd and incomprehensible with respect to the as to the first drink as that of an individual with a passion, say for jaywalking." This is on page 37, by the way. Um, on the bottom of 38, I want to note make a mention of this. It says, "You may think our illustration too ridiculous, but is it?

We who have been through the ringer have to admit that if we substitute alcoholism for jaywalking, the illustration would fit us exactly." So, why don't we substitute alcoholism for jaywalking? >> Oops. If I can keep the page or um Okay.

He gets a thrill out of hanging out at at at bars. He enjoys himself for a few years in spite of friendly warnings. Up to this point, you would label him as a foolish chap having queer ideas of fun.

Luck then deserts deserts him and he goes on on benders several times in succession. You would expect him if he were normal to just cut it out. But presently he gets drunk again and this time has ends up in a in a recovery program.

Within a week after leaving the hospital, he gets drunk again with more complications, more consequences. He tells you he's decided to stop drinking for good. But in a few weeks, he's back drinking on another bender.

On through the years, this conduct continues, accompanied by his continual promise to be careful or to keep out of bars altogether. Finally, he can no longer work. His wife gets a divorce and he's held up to ridicule.

He tries every known means to get the drinking idea out of his head. He shuts himself up in an asylum, hoping to mend his ways. or a rehab, right?

But the day he comes out, he races back to the bar, which sets off another spree. Such a man would be crazy, wouldn't he? Right.

Right. But that was me, right? Uh over and over again, hanging out at bars, drinking, having consequences, consequence after consequence, right?

you know, and crazy. I I absolutely believe that that's that's where I was. Um, so I look at the uh mental obsession from the top of page 23 to the bottom of 43.

So listen, here's what the last paragraph on 43 says. Once more, the alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense.

His defense must come from a higher power. Right? There was nobody that could stop me from drinking once that idea hit my mind.

There was nobody that could stand between me and that bottle. Right? If they tried to, I would get them out of my life.

So that's the first half of step one. And I ask a question here. Chewing ice is probably coming through the microphone, isn't it?

>> Sorry. >> The question. >> The question.

Yeah, I got sidetracked there for a minute. Why is it Why is it that that after I'd get a few days away from drinking when the consequences were great enough that I'd say enough, I can't take it anymore. Um, and for some reason or some way I'd get 3 days or 4 days.

Um or why is it that people come into recovery and they'll get 30 days or 60 days, right? Or 10 years or 20 years or 30 years and all of a sudden they drink again, right? Too many people hang on the idea of of as I said before the problem centers in my mind, right?

What I have to see is there's something else going on here. Right? There's the second half of step one that I have to understand.

I have to set up I have to understand what is the condition conducive for those obsessions to return. Right? That would be important to know even it even with time in the program.

Right? You think those people that that drank with 30 years of sobriety thought that they were going to be the one to drink? >> No.

They thought it was going to be that other guy, right? The guy that never drinks probably, >> right? It's important to understand certain things.

One is why is this a spiritual problem? What is a spiritual solution? And and why what do I have to have that effect?

Right? Because when the obsessions hit me, there was no calling anybody for help like your sponsor. Like I didn't have a sponsor at the time when I was drinking, but you know, there was nobody I could would have thought of calling at the time.

There was um you know, when that obsession hits, I'm drinking, >> right? And uh so I have to understand what is it that's that sets that up? Uh, and let me just check this timing here.

8:30 9:30. Okay, which leads us into the second half of step one. And I I find I use page 52 a lot through this process.

I use it in the first step, the second step, and the third step, and again in the 11th step. Right. Um, so let's go to page 52 where it says we had to ask ourselves why we shouldn't apply to our human problems the same readiness to change our point of view.

Right? They're asking me to change my point of view towards my human problems just like they've asked me to change my point of view towards my alcoholism. Initially, I thought my alcoholism was a problem that was the problem was out here in the consequences of my drinking.

That my problem with alcohol was the consequences, right? But what it's talked about so far in the book is is the idea that I have a mental obsession that sets up a condition that takes me to that first drink and then I lose control. Right?

That's much different than what I thought was really going on. Right? I just thought if I rearranged my outside situations that I wouldn't have to drink, right?

But they're talking about a problem that's going on inside of me. So Ner's asking me to look inside for my other human problems to change my point of view. It says we were having trouble with personal relationships.

Was I having trouble with personal relationships? Not just love relationships. I was having trouble with family.

I was having trouble with with uh my customers in my business. I had trouble with um um you know friends, right? It says we couldn't control our emotional natures, right?

And I saw that I couldn't control my emotional natures. But at a deeper level when I started to understand what they mean by the nature of of it, not just my emotions. The way I differentiate between those two is I show you the emotions that I want you to see, right?

But you don't see my under what's underneath what's inside of me. And that's my emotional nature is the part of my emotions that are inside of me, not what you're seeing. And it's the part that's inside of me that I can't control.

Right? Says we were pray to misery and depression. Right?

Are you vulnerable to misery and depression? Right? You know the times when you don't want to answer the phone and you keep the drapes closed and and uh right.

I can't just get myself out of that. I can't just talk myself out of that. Right.

All the mirror work in the world's not going to change that for me. You know what mirror work is, right? You look in the mirror and smile at yourself and tell yourself how great you are, >> right?

You know that's that doesn't work. That kind of stuff doesn't work for me. Um couldn't make a living, right?

I never had a life that I was satisfied with, right? There was times that I had money and there was times when the relationship seemed good, but she was never good enough. The money was never good enough.

The car was never good enough. Right? I never had a a a way of life that that that uh that was comfortable or that was enough.

So, we had a feeling of uselessness, right? Um I wasn't really thinking about too many other people at the time. So, that didn't stand out as a blaring problem, a glaring problem.

But um you know but looking back I see that I was pretty useless and uh you know that's something that that could come up later on really when you're in the further down the line here in the program you know cuz sometimes people that that read this for the first time with time in the program right feeling useless in the program we were full of fear you know fear pretty much steered the course of my life, right? Um, it was the thing that stopped me from painting that picture or writing that book or going back to school and doing the things that would that that I something inside told me I just wasn't going to be able to accomplish. So, we were unhappy.

Um, I was certainly unhappy near the end of my drinking, right? Couldn't seem to be of real help to other people, right? Now, I definitely related to those things um when I was new.

Now, another problem though is is with time and with experience, sometimes you can go back to this and relate to those things again, right? Time does not necessarily save you from this condition. Right?

What I what I had to see was is that is that these are outlining outward manifestations of a spiritual malady. They aren't the spiritual malady, right? But they're the result of a spiritual malady.

cuz my spiritual malady is transparent. I don't see it. It's deep down inside of me.

What comes out of me is um problems with personal relationships, can't control my emotional nature, pray to misery and depression, all these things. That's what's out here, right? It's a sign.

If you can relate to these, it's a sign. Okay? Um but the good news is there's a cure for it.

There's something you could do that we can find in this book that will take you out of that place, right? Just want to throw that out there. So, nobody doesn't want to come back tomorrow.

Well, if it's all hopeless. No. So, is there any artists here?

Good. So, so, okay, even for the non-artists, if you if somebody asked you to paint a a picture of a of a lake, you know, you'd probably take like blue and just make it a solid blue, right? Cuz that would be water, right?

>> No, not exactly. Right. If you saw a decent painting on on a on a wall um and you're looking at a picture of a lake, what you see is the reflection of the mountains around the lake and the trees in the water.

So that which you cannot see, that which is transparent to you is is is portrayed to you by its by the reflection of what's around it. Right? This page 52 gives gives me a pallet, a spiritual pallet to look at at my life out here and see the reflection, a picture of that transparent spiritual condition, right?

And it makes it it makes it not so transparent anymore. It gives me a it it gives me an idea of what is what my spiritual condition looks like, right? And uh yes, it's in the front of the book, but just because it's something that you've already read and already have got maybe have gotten to the place where where you maybe read it and say, "Oh, I don't have that stuff in my life." Right?

Um my experience is after almost 22 years of doing this is it comes back. You know, it come it discomfort in these areas come back. Maybe after I've done it for a couple more years that won't be the case, but I don't think so.

Right. It it explained to me the idea though that we that that this is a spiritual pro pro uh a spiritual program for people with a spiritual problem. And this shows me what my spiritual condition is.

Right? And and what I have to see is this is the second half of step one. Right?

And I have to understand that the spiritual malady sets up the condition conducive for the alcoholic insanity to return. The obsessions return and I drink again. Doesn't matter what's going on in your mind because I was drinking telling myself I shouldn't drink, right?

I've been sober telling myself I should drink and I couldn't. All right. Let go of the idea that the problem centers in your mind.

Right? Your problem is spiritual and your mind is dragged around. It's going to be directed by that.

Right? If you're in a good spiritual place, it doesn't matter what your mind is thinking, right? You can't drink.

If you're in a poor spiritual place, then this stuff will be obvious in your life, right? And it's a warning sign that you're not in fit spiritual condition. Um, time does not save you from that.

You know, the proof is around us. It's one of the advantages of the program is that you get to see people with time, not stay sober, right? I'm not saying I'm glad they did.

I'm just saying, you know, we need we need to see that that just because just staying sober never kept me sober, right? You know, there's, you know, the times when you're driving down the street and someone turns turns left in front of you, right? And you don't even miss a beat on the radio, right?

Don't even think twice about that person that almost killed you. Right. The next day, same intersection.

Might not be the same guy, but someone turns left in front of you and your hands out the window telling him he's number one. Right? What changed?

Nothing out here, but something inside changed, right? And it's spiritual. And I have so I have again it's I'm illustrating the the effect that my spiritual condition has on my mind.

Right? So that's why that's what I have to see to go along with the idea that I have to have a spiritual solution for this. Right?

And the experience for step one is not that you can't drink again. That's not it. The experience for step one is there's nothing stopping you from drinking again if this is as much as you're going to if this is as far as you're going to go right that we will drink again if we with the truth of the problem it's not it was never enough for me to stop right um just knowing that I have a spiritual solution uh doesn't give me more ability to to turn to God to save me from situation, right?

Because the other situation that was going on for me that was really important was I came into this program complete atheist, right? Okay, you've convinced me that I'm going to drink again if I don't get something more, but you know, you know, how do we how do we how do we get move beyond this point now? Okay, you've convinced me I could drink again, right?

And it's to the extent that I'm clear on that that truth about step one that I is that I get moved into step two going along being able to go along with the idea that I need a power greater than myself to change what's going on in my life to restore me to sanity. I have to see this insanity in my life and how there's no escape from it except some if I get something more from this program. I don't have the power to stop this from happening.

And and the process pushes me forward, pushes me along with it. Right? I come to step two um out of desperation, not out of virtue, not because I want to be spiritual, not because I know what God is.

I don't necessarily at this point in the beginning I didn't even necessarily believe in God yet but I start to believe a little less in my own ability in my own ability to to change this in my own life and uh um you know and that um and that and that desperation I think is a critical part of the program. It's a critical part of of our spiritual path. Um I mean I'm sure that I'm not alone um with the the agnostic uh temperament, right?

Um I can't I can't even stay out of agnostic behavior, right? And um the I the idea that that just because I see step one that all of a sudden I'm going to be open to this God thing is it's just not that simple. Right?

But when you look at it, even though I came to this thing completely doubting the idea that there would be any kind of power that would work in my life, right? It was through seeing the desperation in my life before I even got here that took me to the place in my life where I um after this all these trips to the liquor store telling myself I got to stop doing this really realizing I was trapped in this way of life that I absolutely couldn't get out of um what happened is that there was some consequences that happened with some family members after that. It left me in a worse spiritual place.

It just kind of like took out that last bit of whatever I had that was that was holding me together. And I said enough. I can't live like this anymore.

And uh I dug out a 357 Magnum out of a drawer and was trying to figure out how I was going to where people actually point these things to do to to commit suicide. And that's where my drinking took me. And it wasn't because my of situations in my life like wasn't because wanting to commit suicide because of the marriage or the loss of business.

It was it was totally because I couldn't live the way I was living any longer and drink with the drinking and the and the just everything that was around that. And I holding this this gun to my around my head trying to figure out where I was going to point it. I wasn't afraid to kill myself.

This seemed like my only solution. Therapy hadn't helped. Uh talking to friends hadn't helped.

Um their solution was you don't want to drink anymore. Let's just go get some crack. You know, that was that was friends advice.

You know, I said, "No, no, no." Um, you know, th this this felt like it was the only way to go, you know, and and it was my only alternative to go on as I was or finish it right there. And it was just for a split second that I thought that this thought came to my mind that it was my brother's gun. And my brother was always already on the run from the police uh cuz he had unloaded his shotgun on his friend.

And uh just took off for 20 years. And uh and I thought, you know, my brother was the only thing that I cared about at that time. And it just the only thought that occurred to me was what if they think it was him that did this, right?

And the frustration of that is I couldn't even kill myself. I just looked up and just screamed, "God, right?" But again, it just shows you the power of of being in a place of desperation cuz that place of desperation got a non-believer to scream God. And I didn't even know that that was the most honest prayer I might have ever made in my life.

Right? It was there was a surrender at that point. I didn't understand it all at the time, but it was just a couple days later that I bumped into somebody, a friend from the gas station that I used to hang out with who who was definitely always I always thought he was way worse than I was.

>> Um, but it was just a couple days later that uh you know, was that odd or was it God? you know, I made a surrender and then he he was put back in my life and I didn't even recognize him at first. His whole face had changed.

It turns out he had gotten sober, right? and he started to tell me how he got sober. And uh and I and I was interested at first, but I I was hesitant because the idea of he offered to take me to some meetings if I was interested and uh I thought AA meetings.

I said I couldn't be that bad yet, right? But it only took it only took a couple days of me talking to him and saying, you know, well, what do you do? and you know and and and and I said, "Okay, I'll go to a meeting." So, he took me to my first meeting, right?

And uh you know, if you would have asked if you would have talked to me about that being God in my life back then, I would have would have fought you on it. In fact, the whole ride home, he tried to explain the program to me and he he mentioned spiritual program and you know, that was it. I was I was gone.

And it was I was angry at that point and uh you know and and you hear a lot of that in in the program. It's like don't mention God cuz it'll scare people away, right? But what I was taught and what I really believe is is that the idea of the talk of God might scare people away but alcohol will bring them back if they really have a problem.

>> Right? And and that was sort of my case is although I absolutely didn't want to get caught in some kind of religious organization, you know, I was a dead man. I absolutely did not want to continue living as I was living and I knew that I couldn't stop drinking on on my own.

And and I said, "Okay, I'll go to a meeting." and to started taking me to some meetings and and I I stayed sober from that point on. And uh you know, it's pretty miraculous that the uh the biggest miracle in my life happened February the 23rd of 1989, where before that I was ready to blow my brains out because I couldn't stop drinking whiskey. and uh I show up at an AA meeting and never drink again.

And that was without even owning a book yet, right? There was definitely something bigger going on than the book, the the meetings and the steps, right? And I came in contact with that first part of the p of a succession of of different levels of that power entering my life.

And uh so um they say that you only can absorb as much as your backside can take. So you've been sitting for a while and you're probably ready to to uh um to go home. Um as you know, I'll be back here at 9:00 and we'll uh we'll start with kind of a recap and and then step two.

So, I hope to see a lot of you back tomorrow. And I I hear the weather's going to be conducive for people to be inside tomorrow. Um although it's really cooperating since I've been here.

It's been really nice. So, I feel really lucky. So, again, thanks for spending the evening with me.

>> Morning. I'm Dan and I'm an alcoholic. How'd you sleep?

>> Slept great. Thank you. >> It's a nice room.

Some nice rooms here. Okay. So, there we are.

15 930. Okay. So, uh, in between step one and step two, there's like this hallway right behind me, I need to be clear on certain things because in order for me to come to believe that I need a power greater than myself to restore me to sanity, I have to understand what my insanity is and uh, and what I can't do anything about.

So the book is interesting the way it's it lays out. It first talks about the physical craving out here, right? And then the mental obsessions in my mind, right?

That take me to that first drink. And then we talked about the second half of step one, the unmanageability of my life, which I also think it it's the same for me as the unmanageability of my spiritual life. right of the unmanageability of my spiritual condition.

And I talked about something that I don't usually hear a lot of people talk about. Uh a lot of people talk about problem centers in the in my mind. Um but if it was just about a problem in my mind, then maybe good therapists could take care of it or the right drugs could knock that edge off.

And you know, but um plenty of people um even on medication can can still drink, right? You know, so I I have to understand why this is a spiritual how this is a spiritual problem and why I need a spiritual solution. And it was interesting that I how this came to me um because I was so used to going through from the beginning of the book all the way through the first those three sides.

Um I I was actually sitting in a restaurant. Um a friend had called and said she was having trouble with u bing in the fourth step. So she asked if I would sit with her and see if I can get her motivated.

And the best way to motivate somebody is by looking at why is it important that I finish this thing. So we started talking about uh her drinking and uh the conversation wasn't wasn't clicking for me and and so it occurred to me that I should start backwards. and we talked about the stuff on page 52 and uh much like we did last night, but I backed into it and we talked about this one here.

I asked her about her personal relationships. If she was in a relationship that got so bad that she got so emotionally bothered by it, could she eventually drink? Right?

See, my answer would be I know that if I sit in a in a bad relation long enough, right, it could get I can get enough discomfort in my life to want to find some escape without a spiritual program, without God. I'm talking about without any of the things that you might have today, just alone on your own power. Could you drink again over a relationship?

She said, "No. So I thought, "Oh, okay. Well, maybe she's not that sensitive." I said, "What about your emotional nature?" Emotional nature being the part.

My emotions that are inside, not necessarily what you see, right? Cuz I show you who the face that I want you to see, but inside my emotions might be saying something different. He said, "If you if you were emotionally tortured for long enough and hard enough, do you think you could drink?

Do you think that would take you to a drink?" Cuz I'm thinking to myself, "Yeah, I certainly would could use a drink after a good emotional torture, right?" Uh, she said, "No." We went through all these questions and she wouldn't drink over any of them. And I thought, well, this is interesting. So then whenever I get cornered with not having a clue what to do when I'm working with someone, I I put it back on them.

Just spin it around. Say, "Okay, let's start over." If you sat in a relationship that was that was really difficult and you weren't getting out of it, what do you think that the obsessions what obsessions would you experience? What what would what would those that what would sitting in that tor Excuse me.

Still early for me. I'm actually quite nocturnal. Um, if you sat in a bad relationship long enough, right, there would be obsessions to that would come to you that would that uh that would feel like the natural thing for you to go to, right?

What would those be? And she said, I'd curl up in my bed with with food and I'd I'd eat myself to death. And I thought that's interesting.

And I said,"Well, what about the I went through the rest of the questions." What about your emotional nature? If you sat in a bad place emotionally, um, where would that take you? She said the same thing.

We went through all of these questions on page 52 and it occurred to me how how great this is laid out because you know not everybody in Alcoholics Anonymous had a problem with alcohol. Some did. I mean especially some overeaters because of the a lot of overeaters apparently um get triggered by alcohol too because of the carbs and the sugar in it or whatever reason.

And I don't know, I'm not familiar with that program that well, but I realized the same thing happened with addicts. You go down these this list and it's like, where would these things ultimately take you? If it was if it was a cocaine addict would would say, I might drink before I go back to it, but eventually I'd go back to that that which I find my this illusion of of a solution, right?

I have to find out what's true for me. And it's not just so that I can fit into AA, right? I have to find out what's true for me because this is what's going to drive me to God.

What is it that I need an act of God to save me from? Because if I get clear on why I need a spiritual program and what it is exactly that's going to kill me, right, then I'm going to be much more clear on what my insanity is, right? And my desperate need for more power in step two.

Because if I if I if I have a problem other than what I'm focusing on and I go into step two looking for looking for needing a power to restore me to sanity, right? And if I if I'm not clear on what that is, I'm going to step two just with with this vague in this vague place and not necessarily needing a lot of power, right? But if I if I'm clear on what it is that's killing me, right, I go to step two.

The urgency of of this being about life and death, right? You know, and and that's why it's so important to see what's true for me. And some people start some people go off the wrong direction with this.

I I think when when you start asking questions at the beginning like, well, maybe you're not an alcoholic or maybe you don't even need this program, right? And they it's it it can sound sometimes like some people are trying to weed Alcoholics Anonymous all these non-alcoholics and and I don't think and I don't want that to be misunderstood. That's not my take on it, you know, because I, as a real alcoholic, don't really want to be in this club.

I would rather just be able to go drink without consequences. I would rather you say I don't belong here because then I can go get a drink. The uh the purpose of that is is to is to drive a real alcoholic to the point where he really can't doubt that he needs this thing, right?

Um the sad thing is is that is that statistics are quite low as far as who actually stays. And I think that that this is this is possibly a an important piece of that puzzle because if I if I don't see the depth of my problem, then I'm not going to see the uh as much value in the solution. If I see the depth of my problem and it takes me a place to a place of desperation, then I'm going to step two out of desperation, right?

not not just because I want I like this idea of having this god in my life, right? So, um that's basically what we talked about yesterday, right? Right.

Understanding what is it that I that I what are the manifestations of my physical powerlessness, right? the mental state that takes me back to that over and over again. Obsessions, right?

And the unmanageability of my spiritual condition, the second half of step one that sets up the condition conducive for that obsession to return, for those obsessions to return, right? And uh I believe for that that becomes real important too not just in the beginning uh but also throughout a spiritual way of life because it's it's a way for me to to check what my condition is. All right.

And we'll come back to this later on in uh you know in uh 10 and 11 actually. Well, we'll look at this again from a different perspective. So, was there any questions on that first step?

We got just a couple minutes before I can No questions. I had one. Oh, sorry.

Go ahead. when the um when the lady said that it was food that she would go to >> then what did she do >> or discussion >> carry on >> this discussion after that was she actually started in a food pro program but they told her that AA is where the good program where the better sobriety was so she switched and although she had a lot of friends in AA so she ended up going to both programs again >> thank Sure. Somebody asked me about brought up the question, it was Matt brought up the question of choice before the before the meeting today.

Um, and that's something you hear a lot of um, and I think it's it fits here. Um, and that was part of what we read, that paragraph on choice and how people will say, and I talked a little bit about it. Um, today I today I have a choice whether I'm going to drink or not, right?

And I think it kind of the book specifically talks about we've lost the power of choice. But I know that from a from a place of of especially long-term sobriety, you can feel like you have a choice because the argument is, yeah, I could choose to drink today, you know, and I hear that all the time. And it's like, yeah, it's like my typical response is I I get that.

I understand what you're saying. It's It's like your choice that you could throw yourself in front of a bus today. Could you choose to do that?

They say, "Of course I could choose to throw myself in front of a bus." And I says, "Well, would you show me?" And I says, "You can't." He said, "You can't, can you?" He says, "Because it's really never been about choice. It's been about sanity. Because from an insane place, I chose to not drink and I absolutely couldn't, right?

But being brought to a place of sanity and experiencing times when I felt like a drink would really help this and I couldn't drink even if I even if I wanted to. Right? So, it's never really been about choice.

It's never really mattered what my mind was saying to me. It matters what my spiritual condition is. Right?

Because if I've been restored to sanity, it doesn't matter what I'm thinking. I'm not going to drink cuz I wouldn't do an insane act from a sane place, right? So I don't get hung up on the word choice, right?

Cuz cuz really uh it's about what's sane here, right? So all right. So >> what are your thoughts around we conceded to our innermost self that we were alcoholic >> where's yeah >> what is that >> right >> at what point do we concede to our innermost self that we're alcoholic right I think the the first thing to get straight here is where's your innermost self Right?

It's not here as he points to his head. Right? My innermost self is not between my ears.

Right? My innermost self is is here in my gut where I just know. And I think that that comes at different points for different people.

But it it also I think um I I think that uh it's something that's easily forgotten, right? Uh and that's part of our problem, you know, but we will read books, we'll read the big book, we'll listen to speaker tapes, we'll do all this stuff, right? and and hear the right words, right?

But nothing will take me to the truth that's in my innermost self more than going through this book and attaching my own experience to it. Because if I see that I drank like Bill, that I think like Bill, that I that I felt like Bill, if I could relate to the doctor's opinion, if I can relate to all this stuff, right? Um right which is again why it's important to look at the physical part not just from the fact that I did I lose control once I started but seeing the consequences as a result of losing control because I cannot doubt the consequences that came to me from that lack of control right um because those are those are things that I can't dispute right because there's because when you look at the fact that when I started to drink, I lose control.

What comes to my mind is all those times that I didn't. Right. Right.

Cuz there were times that that because of situations that I that kept me from from drinking. And so there there's that element of doubt, right? But I look at all of the trash businesses that I've started and all of the relationships that that died and all of the times that I made alcohol more important than any of that.

And I see that if I just never drank, none of those problems, most of those problems wouldn't have been there. Right? I have to see the trail of destruction behind me that I cannot doubt, right?

and admit to my innermost self that what alcohol does something different to me than it does to some other people right and I can't doubt that because of my experience so thanks so uh we'll start with step two >> >> came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. I use we agnostics as a tool to go through uh step two. Now notice it doesn't say we believers, >> right?

that it's going to talk about God here. But, you know, we're not even at the third step here where we're making a decision to to to get this power. So, too much talk about about my great belief in God here is I don't believe is as effective as looking at where I don't believe.

Right? And people come to this different ways. Uh, you know, I came to this pretty much an atheist.

You know, I trashed my life and uh, you know, and it was like obviously there wasn't a god that cared about what was happening with me and and I have my own past to to look at that the influences that I grew up with. I grew up in a family with a lot of physical uh fighting between my parents and uh and I remember being being I must have been 6 years old. I remember, you know, I lived in England and uh there was churches all around the school and they would march us to these churches from school to the churches and especially during the holidays and make us sing hymns and say prayers and now I didn't really understand a lot of it cuz I didn't grow up in a religious home.

Um, but my parents used to fight really bad and it used to really hurt me and and I remember laying in bed trying this prayer thing and asking God to uh to stop them from fighting, right? To keep them together, right? And God didn't listen to me, right?

Thank God they probably would have killed themselves if they stayed together, killed each other, >> you know? So um you know all through life I I lived my life based on the idea that if there was anything that I was there was to have in this world it was going to be based on what I do to get it that I wasn't going to wait for it to just be handed to me like I'm not going to pray for things cuz that's you know get out and work right that was that was what I believed if you want something go out and and take it and uh which caused its own set of problems. But uh you know you know and I was able to start a lot of businesses and the idea that the idea that I had power in my life was strong.

I felt I had a lot of capacity to and I was gonna I was sure I was going to retire at the age of 30 and and uh you know what I failed to see was was yes I could I was able to start a lot of businesses but I wasn't able to keep them going uh because of the the way I was living and uh the um other thing was is I really wasn't that hirable because I was drinking and using so much. So, so I had to start businesses to survive. And looking back, I I was sort of just it just was perfect the way it was working out.

But, um, I think I might have hit a wall sooner if I was if I had a job or if I had regular jobs that I kept getting fired from, but that wasn't the case. So, but still, I I was on this mission to to be someone, to make myself something. And it just never happened cuz again as as I mentioned before I found myself uh in 1987 sitting on a couch looking around my life going what happened what happened to the dreams and the aspirations that I had?

what happened to this this this great drive that I thought I had to to succeed and you know it just never materialized you know and and uh so I came to this thing not believing that there was a god but that's not everybody's story there's plenty of people that I've come across that that could recite the Bible to me that knew exactly what God looked like and and how you're supposed to pray and and and and uh just knew way more about religion than I did, way more about God. But you know where we where both ends come together where we where we both uh where the believer and the non-believer can agree is we suffer agnostic behavior even with a belief system of what God is. So I go through we agnostics underlining everywhere where I see that I did not rely on that power on a power other than my own.

And any any believer can can go through this and underline just as much as a non-believer. Right? Because if I relied on that power that I had this big belief in, then I might not have been here.

Right. So, so I had all these ideas why this couldn't work. and uh you know but the fact is that is that whatever power I was operating from you know look look what a great job I've done here I've got here on 45 it says lack of power that was our dilemma now dilemma is a great word dilemma just doesn't mean problem lack of power just isn't my problem lack lack of power is my dilemma.

And a dilemma is when I looked it up in the dictionary, um I have this great dictionary. It's old and it's 6 in thick and it's comes up with things there that just blow my mind because the wording in the dictionary see it's it's I don't know. Anyway, it's a dilemma is faced with alternatives that I that I don't like or want.

faced with alternatives that I don't like or want. And the word alternatives jumped out at me and oh, it talks about two alternatives on the page before. It says doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face.

Right? Doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis. And only an alcoholic would have to think about that question.

Right? Right. Alcoholic death, spiritual basis of life.

Which one do I want? Right. Just another thing that kind of pushes me forward along this process because I don't want to continue living the way I'm living.

Right? But I have no clue how to live on a spiritual basis of life. So, how could it possibly work?

Right? We had to find a power by which we could live and it had to be a power greater than ourselves obviously. But where and how are we to find this power?

And that's exactly what this book is about. So as I said, I go through this paragraph, I'm sorry, chapter underlining where I don't rely on there being a power other than my own. setting aside my belief systems if I have one, right?

Or setting aside my my trying to set aside my prejudices against this, right? Cuz alcohol hopefully has made me willing to have an open mind here. And 47 brings up an important question.

Says we need to ask ourselves but one short question. Do I now believe or am I even willing to believe that there's a power greater than myself? Right?

And for people that have done this a few times, there's another way to look at that. Do I now believe or am I willing to believe that there's a power greater than myself that can move me beyond where I am today in my process, in my program? Right?

The first time I went through this, it was tough because I was still leaning heavily towards atheism, right? But I knew in my gut, and this comes back to your question about knowing in in my innermost self that I'm an alcoholic and what that means. So the desperation of my alcoholic problem, right, was enough to make me willing to at least move forward, willing to at least have an open mind to what's going to happen.

Now, I got to I got to say this, too, is that my my home group um was an example of people that had more than what I had what I had. They were an example of people that had something that I wanted. So I think that my home group was an important factor in in the experience here because seeing more in them, right, made me believe easier that there could also be more for me, you know, which took me to some other thoughts like I wonder if you can get healthier than your home group.

And I don't know how to answer that, but exactly just a question that came to me, right? Because it was certainly there was other groups that I'd went to that were that uh they basically stayed powerless. They worked they talked about things like I work all the steps in every day in my life, which I don't believe is true.

Um, not the least you couldn't do it the way I do it every day. Uh, but we'll get more into that later in 10 and 11, but um, but basically staying powerless, basically staying hopeless, right? Using using meanings like unsupervised group therapy, right?

>> Oh, >> you like that term? unsupervised group therapy. Right.

Right. Um as opposed to a a spiritual example of this program working on a spiritual basis. Right.

So yeah, I I was willing to believe because I saw it in the people around me that they had something more. Right. And I I was like, it's like I'm I'm in a burning building and the fire's at at the door behind me and there's firemen down below me saying, "Jump, we'll catch you." It's like, I don't want to jump.

Right? But the thing that's behind me is more scarier, right? To continue as I am drinking is more scarier than having an open mind about what you're going to tell me in this book, right?

As soon as a man can say that he does believe or is even willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone of a wonderful a wonderful effective spiritual structure can be built. Right?

A cornerstone is like the first stone in a structure. A lot of times it the the cornerstone will have the name of the builder or the owner of the building, right? But it's this first stone in place.

Back on page 16, I'm sorry, on 17, it talks about just read it so I don't mess it up. in the bottom of 17. The feeling of having shared in a common peril is one element in the power powerful cement which binds us.

But that in itself would never have held us together as we are now joined. So that's they're talking about the fellowship >> >> uh feeling of having shared in a common peril. Uh the tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution in this book in the 12 steps that we have a way out which you can absolutely which we can absolutely agree and which we can enjoin in brotherly and harmonious action.

So they're talking about this powerful cement which binds us, right? And this cornerstone in in step two is set on top of that foundation, right, of the fact that we have a fellowship and a solution, right? And that's that's the basis of this thing.

We put this this the or willingness to believe is that first stone in place because we're going to be building this spiritual structure. And we're going to talk about that more in step three. So, I keep underlining as I go through this paragraph, as I said, where I see that I don't rely on on any power other than my own.

And it it's going to be talking about um my prejudices against spiritual terms, right? all the the fight I have, the resistance I have against a spiritual way of life because I had a lot of them. I had this wall of argue this wall of arguments that I would use not only to you but also to myself why there couldn't possibly be a god that would work in my life.

Right? How you must be like delusional if you think that there's something that will. Right?

But that fight really didn't serve me well considering where it took me right where my life be where my life ended up. So I had to have this open mind and and the question of God was a really difficult one for me and and um meditation a little exercise came to me and I'd like to share that with you. But first, I'm going to start at 53 and pose some considerations when I'm working with someone.

And we get to this part in the book in page 53 where it says, "When we became alcoholics, when I really knew that I was an alcoholic, crushed by a self-imposed crisis we could not postpone or evade, we had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything or else he's nothing. God either is or he isn't. What was your choice to be?

Right? So, they're talking about either God is everything or God is nothing. Right?

God either is or he isn't. Those are they're asking us to make a choice. And this is a really important choice.

>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.