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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. Congratulations to all the years and days and uh and so forth. That's great to see.

And uh I tell you, it's a weird feeling being the oldest rat in the barn. >> >> It's it's a strange kind of phenomenon, but you I was the youngest member, as I mentioned a little earlier, I was the youngest member in everything I attended for years. Now I'm almost always oldest rat in every barn I get in.

And it's I'm the oldest member in my oldest male in my state, oldest active male. And so it's amazing how it happens. They from the youngest twerp to the oldest goat in the but I I'll take it.

I'll take it very very well. Uh I got some really heartbreaking news. No questions.

We going to I'm you being from South. I'm I talk slow, think slow, react slow. And so we're going to move on and get into a part of the program that I dearly love.

We got two sessions to go and u tonight dealing with some of the things we're talking about on relationships, unity, and stuff like that. We're going to be doing that and we're going to do it through the traditions. And uh so I want to deal with that at a personal level.

Yeah. Because it's a it's a phenomenally important thing. I I I'll just tell you this by way of salesmanship.

I probably deliberately use traditions, deliberately use traditions more than I do steps, you know, where I'm going to pull on a tradition and use it for something far more often than steps. You know, steps are how I live. You know, I don't need to pull a step.

That's how I live. Traditions, on the other hand, are just tremendously good for follow for for handling specific problems. of all the people that ever ever contact me, I would say, you know, like sometimes you'd be in a town and uh say something that kind of dawned on somebody after I leave and uh they'll call me and about 90% of the time it's a tradition issue, not a step issue because that that's whole business of how you relate to the world around you.

So that that's what we're going to deal with. And then tomorrow we'll wrap up with u what I think you talk about being rocketed into a fourth dimension and into a new phase of existence. Uh we'll be dealing with the part of the program that shifts from me to we and to our real purpose.

And so we'll close out on that and then we'll give the homework assignment. and uh Alex has agreed to be the stool pigeon >> for for anybody that doesn't take care of it. Then we'll send the gang up here for that.

So anyway, that that that's that's what we'll take off with on that. And uh you know, traditions are an extremely important thing to me. I know early on, you know, when I was in the program and I thought aa was just a little cvy of drunks that that that got together every once in a while.

tradition were the first thing that gave me vision of what Alcoholics Anonymous was. That is more than just a little gaggle of drunk sitting in the corner of a church basement. Bless you.

Now that the weakest sneeze I have ever heard, I bet your ears are popping. He go I would never point that out publicly, but but it really did. It gave me a a vision that is not just a little gaggle of folks somewhere, but it really is a program that has big mo and it l literally reaches around this world.

It gave me vision. It meant a lot to me. It always has.

I use them in every area of my life. Yeah, I mentioned that earlier and I'll elaborate on it a little bit more. I'm going to talk fast I can because it's hard to do traditions in a in a limited amount of time.

I better not tell too many war stories. I won't be able to get there. A while back, I was uh had some people call me from Tennessee and they were having a district meeting and they wanted me to come over and do a a a deal on on tradition.

And I said, "Well, I'll be happy to do it. When is it happened to be a date I was going to be in Georgia?" And uh they said, "Well, isn't there any way you can do it?" I said, "Good God, I don't know." But I knew my schedule in Georgia was that I didn't have anything to do afternoon. And I also checked to see that there was a plane that would get me from Georgia to Tennessee if I could get there on time.

So I I said, "All right, if it's just a tradition now, if if it been just wanted to do alter calls or something, I might not have done it. But this tradition, I I said, "Let me see what I do." So we did. Flew into that town in Tennessee, Chad, no, Knoxville, somewhere in Tennessee.

And uh I only got through six traditions and they've been on my case ever since. Now you got to come back, man. You didn't do your job.

We spent all that money getting you over here and you didn't even finish what you So So anyway, I got to go back to Tennessee and finish jobs. So I I'm going to get at it. Uh I do like to look at tradition from a personal standpoint, and I do use them in in everything that I do.

I I give you an example of something that to me is about, you know, common welfare is what the first tradition is about. Yeah. Our common welfare comes first.

Personal recovery depends on a unity. Just like my belief is that the first step is the most important step because that's the launch pad. That's the foundation.

That's where we start, you know, and so it's fundamental to everything else. And it it it it sort of opens the door for the rest steps in the first tradition. Same way that our welfare comes first.

If we don't take care of our unity, then we've got nothing for anybody. So we we must protect what protects us. And uh I I just give you a couple just a one for sure and then maybe one more if I sneak it in.

Uh what that means in real life, you know, what does it mean to me? And I know just from our conversation, many of you are dealing with things that are are very much in the fringes of this neighborhood at least. Yeah.

I'm a you gathered by now, I'm sure, that I'm I'm a group guy. I'm not a meet and jockey. I'm a group guy.

I'm somebody who is committed to a home group. That's where I That's where I belong. That's my foundation.

It's where I do my most important work. That's my launching pad. And and and so it's a very important thing to me.

And uh the group I'm in, we started it 14 years ago, the outgrowth of Big Book Workshops. And uh and it is an excellent group. We have all legacies in place.

Every service is provided in AA is provided in our group. every service action that's done in AA, it exists. It's staffed.

It's functional. So, it's a very important kind of a thing to me, a very important place to to to to get well. And so, and it's something I have loyalty to.

Now, sometimes I have to be gone. I won't get back tomorrow, Monday night, in time for the meeting. Well, I won't get back till midnight.

So, I know it won't meet. They'll probably be gone by then, maybe. And so, I won't get back, but I'd like to be there as much as I possibly can.

And I was out I was out of town on an extended trip for for for something. And while I was out, our group in its wisdom made a decision to do something that was totally unacceptable to me. I'm the great white father, you know.

I mean, they're not supposed to do that. And uh but they did. They made a drastic decision and the decision was we have you like we have an open speaker meeting once a week and then on Monday night we have three different groups.

One of them's open. It's a newcomer group and it's open to anybody who wants to walk in the door. We have one that's step tradition oriented and then a book discussion.

and and while I was away, the decision was made by my home group to discontinue the big book meeting in order to strengthen the step tradition meeting. Well, I about had a baby when I when I got back and I'm telling you, I was I was absolutely I knew that my loyal partners in crime would would not do something just because I was gone. And they knew that it might be difficult to do if I was yelling and screaming while they were trying to vote.

And so so I I know they wouldn't do that. They wouldn't take advantage of my absence to vote something in. But but they did.

And so when they got back and and I heard that, have have you ever been some just too mad to do something? You ever been so mad that you just didn't trust yourself to do something? That That's what I was.

And And so that Alex won't quit buming, will he? He He been He been hustling people for years. They got Yeah.

But But they But when I got that word, I I was so angry. But you know, it's only our basic text. It's only where we draw our entire program for you.

It's not like it doesn't m doesn't doesn't matter much the uh it's but I was so mad I knew that if I did anything I would overdo it and when you're the oldest rat in the barn you have to be mindful of the fact that you can do some damage unintentionally and just not not just because you're oldest rat in the barn but that helps a great deal and so when when the fearless leader is angry it it sort of reverberates in in a deal and I knew knew if I did anything quickly, I would I would do some damage, some real damage. And so I had to bite my tongue and not do anything. I I I evaluated what what my feeling was about.

Why am I so angry? Is it because I was insulted because the fearless leader was not not involved in that thing? Was it because I suspected a sneak attack and do it while the old man's gone?

you know, and I I wanted to evaluate that and be assure why I was so upset. Did I really believe that this was injurious to our purpose to to our purpose in our group? Well, when I got through, I finally got got resolved that there was absolutely no personal deal there.

It didn't did not have to do with me. It had to do with what I truly believe if we take out the basic text, what what else would you take out? Yeah.

And so that was just totally unacceptable to me. And so I I didn't do anything. The first business meeting afterward I I sat there, held my peace, never and I never discussed it with a soul except my sponsor, my higher power and me.

I didn't discuss it with anybody else. Nobody. And uh so I bit my tongue on the on the first meeting.

Second business meeting, I'm still too mad and didn't trust myself. And then third business meeting, I was I wasn't sure I'd do anything or not, but right before the the end of the the meeting, the it was it was in a regular meeting. I I I stuck my hand up to say something and uh I said a while back we made a decision.

Now, I say we because that's my home group. If I'm not there, my vote is exactly what they vote because it's we, you know, it's not I don't stand apart from that. So, I said, we made a decision a while back to fix something that I don't think was broken, and I'd like to request that we reinstate the Big Book groups starting tonight.

and a hush fell over the crowd and you could have heard a pin drop. And there was that the electric moment where one guy asked one simple little question and and we handled that moved on unanimously voted to reinstate it. Now, now just think about that.

If I hadn't been thinking about the common welfare and I just been thinking about me and and my feelings, I could have done a lot of damage. So when I talk about common welfare, I either mean it or I don't. And if I don't take care of that group, it can't take care of me.

And so that's what I have to do. That the that the Wii is bigger than the me. And and so that was as tough a test as I've had for a good while to uh to deal with common welfare in a way that was extremely important to me.

And uh so sometimes, you know, that that's what it is when I have to get beyond myself. And that's what the common welfare is about. If it isn't good for the total, it's probably not good for me.

And so that's what that tradition is about. It's about about assuring that we're looking after the common welfare. U I wait on to another one on another aspect, another wrinkle on that.

But to me, that's a very very fundamental thing. It's like the first step opens the door to every other step. The first tradition opens the door to every other tradition because they're basically saying here's how we protect our welfare and it it'll enumerate the things we go at.

So that's fundamental to me. The second one is uh good God don't tell me I forgot that uh somebody recite it for me Pete >> for a group purpose >> I'm getting burned for a group purpose there's but one ultimate authority loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience and uh that's that's all of these traditions very important that's certainly one for our group purpose what is our group purpose and it'll it'll define it a little later on. Our for our group purpose, we only have one purpose.

>> There is >> and that's to carry the message to the alcoholic still suffers. That's what we're about. And for that purpose, there's only one ultimate authority and it's certainly not the oldest rat in the barn.

It's God as we understand him expressed through the group conscience. And that's what happened in that meeting I think at that time. But but you know group I I personally think the term group conscience is is is used inappropriately in our fellowship far too often.

I've heard it here this weekend where we refer to a business meeting as a group conscience. That's not a that's not a group conscience. >> You know a business meeting is not of that.

That's taking care of business. It's taking care of the routine stuff. We need coffee, need something, somebody going to get the key, whatever.

But that's just routine take care of business. And uh so group conscience goes beyond that. Group conscience is prayerful consideration.

Like I was doing that individually to deal with that issue. And I think the group probably did that very quickly when when when I raised the issue. And so for that purpose there's only one ultimate authority as expressed in the group conscience.

What does that mean in in real life? In uh in looking at a a a an issue that has real impact on our purpose needs to go to a group conscious. Give I'll give you an example.

We we just did a thing that um you know the thing of reimbursing people for expenses was was uh it's it's an ongoing issue that we have in the fellowship. Yeah. I went for 25 years and would never accept reimbursement for like if I did a service job, a GSR, DCM, something like that, I would never take reimbursement for for my expenses.

And one day it dawned on me after about 25 years that I was not being generous. What I was doing was being very selfish. And what I'm doing was denying my fellow members the right of participation.

The heroes taking care of everything. Now, I didn't intend that. There was no malicious intent.

I genuinely my gratitude was deep and I thought I was doing that, but everybody else's gratitudees deep, too. And so, what I'm doing was depriving those folk of the right of participation. And I don't have the right to do that.

First time I ever took a check for reimbursement. I swear to God, I had to back up to to take the check from this little gal that was riding. And I felt like a fool, but I knew it was the right thing.

Now, that was a personal conscience. You know, we had a deal that I I read into a thing. It's uh you know, like you probably don't see this in Canada, but we had extremely high fuel costs and uh I can tell by looking at the tanks it's contagious cuz y'all have caught it too.

But it it's been bad news. And I I drove somewhere to an adjoining state to just speaking an anniversary. Now I you didn't want to pay no attention to that.

But for some reason, I don't know, I guess I just had on my mind or something. I went to that thing and and it was a it was a eating meeting and you know, folks brought in stuff, you know, and all that kind of thing. And I spent $82 going from my home to that meeting and back.

I spent $82. The other people in the group put a buck or two in the plate. And I thought, "Come on now.

You something wrong with that picture." That uh you self-support means more than what I put in. It also has to do with my taking away somebody's responsibility. And so when I bother to accept the weight and carry I pay $82 and they pay one or two.

I'm not being fair to that group. Yeah. I'm not letting them have the responsibility that they that they have.

And so I had that on my mind a little bit. I never did say anything to that group because that was all history. And it was all right.

You know, it's not going to break me. It wasn't the money anyway. There's a principle involved in that called self-support.

And when I got back to my group, I thought, now we we we are a group that's pretty well organized. We have speaker meetings every Thursday night, and we don't just take who we can get, not who's readily available. We we look for speakers.

We want diversity. We want people of different persuasions. We want people of different colors.

We don't want everybody to be handsome like me. We we want some ugly people up there. I mean some it looks like real drunks, you know.

So we want a variety of people, you know. We want we want our speakers to look like America. You know, we want to be a representative sheriff.

So we don't just take who's available, we take who we want. We have it set up so that we want to have a local speaker one time a month that because we want to be good neighbors to our friends. We want females.

We want gay. We want straight. you name it, whatever.

And uh so when you do that, there's going to be travel involved. And my little experience up there with that 82 bucks made me more sensitive to that. I was thinking about it.

I thought we're not being self-supported. We asked somebody to spend a hundred bucks to come speak at our meeting. There no self-supporting that.

That's called using people is what that is. And uh so I brought that up at a business meeting and said I was real proud of my group. I was really proud of them because there was a lot of reluctance to get into that reimbursing fund.

They understood the principle but my group is extremely extremely proud's the wrong word. They feel very strongly about our support of of AA services at all levels. You know, we contribute every every three months.

We go broke by design. We spend every bit of money we have. You know, we take care of our fundamental expenses.

We have a prudent reserve in there. Everything beyond that, we break out four different ways. We we we contribute equal amounts to our local intergroup, our district, our area functions that take in our state and our national which takes in the general service office.

So, we we routinely do that. We don't have to make a decision. it is a decision and so we do that every time and my group's reluctance was they didn't want to lower the level of our contribution.

I was really proud of of of our bunch for that. But at the same time, we we're either going to continue using people or we're not. We're going to be self-supporting by paying our our our way or we're not.

And that was a a weighty group conscience issue. And we finally wound up getting an ad hoc committee to go to the to tedious detail, bring back a recommendation and they did. And so we came back with something and we now do that as a matter of course.

And that that's the deal, you know, that that what does a group operate on? And when it's a real issue that it's the prayerful consideration, that's what a group conscience is. It's prayerful consideration of a of a matter that would affect our purpose.

Hey, that and that's what it is. And uh so it it's a vitally thing leaders are but trusted servants. They don't govern.

We have leaders a number of leaders stood up in this group tonight. Now everyone just stood up right then. Oh, he's quitting.

He's not a leader. He's leaving. Oh well.

As much as I drink you today, I know how to open a bottle. But leaders, you let you in on a little secret that it's just my my secret. But I believe that anybody I just pick a number.

Anybody over five years sober is a leader. I don't care whether you want to be or not. Don't care whether you even agree to it or not.

You are. But who do new people look to? Hey, you you're not going to look to somebody that's got 5 days, are you?

You're going to look to somebody that's got you some time. So, they got the they're a proven commodity and you're going to be able to trust that they're going to not just get out and get drunk, talk about you. And so, at least we'll talk about you after you end the program.

But, you know, that's I mean, that's who you look to. Eh, yeah. That you got to look.

And so, leaders don't have to be barking commands. It's a matter of the role that you that you demonstrate. It's a role of of how do you carry out yours?

That's that's where people learn from by watching what you do. I was at an area assembly one time and if you've if you've done any of that, you know that we make an art out of voting. I swear to God, we can vote something to death.

And uh I was in one of those one time and we were voting on some really a no-brainer kind of an issue and we were voting over and over and over and I I just got tired of it. I did a little quick nose count and I saw that sucker wasn't going anywhere. So I switched my vote.

I'd been voting for it. I voted against it. Now I couldn't have told you how anybody else in that group voted.

I bet you I had 25 or 30 people ask me why I changed my vote. That's what leadership is. Yeah.

You don't have to bark commands. It's just people watch what you do and then they're going to emulate that if they believe that you practice what you preach. You know that it's going to follow.

So there's a leadership deal that's there. You don't have to run for it. It just comes with the territory.

That's my belief. Doesn't make it true. And uh but very important that we do have leaders.

We have to have leaders otherwise we're just a crowd. So you got to have leadership you know and that and that and that's what we do rotating leadership. We don't let people camp on offices forever.

You know that we rotate that. And uh and third one is one we talked about a little bit earlier with singers of purpose that that the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. the short form of that.

The long form goes further and it says it any quote that thing somebody I need read it John >> any two or three alcohol gathered together can have no other >> two or more now I don't mean to correct my helper but it was two or more three is more yeah two or more yes so that's all it takes gathered for the purpose of recovery may call themselves an AA group provided they have no other affiliation. And what that means is that say if we wanted to go out here in the parking lot and start a move to to uh have meetings about anti- retreats, you know, we could do that. We do.

We're free to do it. Anybody could do it. It's a simple thing.

And that the only requirement for membership, what's the quote in there about that people who suff is open to people who suffer from alcoholism. You're the long form of the tradition. I wish I had one I could see cuz my eyes are >> Well, your older brother's got the glasses.

You got >> You got to go to a young guy. to include all who sell. >> There you go.

>> Hence, you may refuse none who wish to recover. No AA membership ever depends upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for surprises may call themselves an AA group, >> provided that as a group they have no other affiliation.

>> Read the first two sentences one more time. Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcohol. Hence, we may refuse none who wish to become.

>> Yeah. And that that's a whole different language than what's said in the short term. The only requirement members desire to stop drinking.

It's a whole different language. It ought to include all self alism. It doesn't matter what else.

You know, the first first real issue about singles of purpose was when the first gay person came in and there was a real real bruha among those early pioneers about whether they should be allowed. And that's what where that came from. It doesn't matter what else you bring if you have alcohol is that you're in the right place.

And so that that's thing and I think we really give it a cheap shot when we say the only requirements. Yeah. I got a I got a golden retriever that has that the desire to stop drinking.

never has had a drink, but he wants to quit before he starts. Yeah. I offered him some one time.

He wouldn't take it. So, not a real dog. I But anyway, that that one is one that gets booted around, kicked around a great deal.

And it's one that that I always like to kind of underline that a little bit because it is such a widespread prevalent kind of a concern in the in the fellowship. And and so this is the baseline for that kind of a thing. Fourth one is about autonomy.

that each group should be autonomous accepted matters affecting other groups or a as a whole. You know, I like to break it down as you gathered by now to personal. Every one of us in this room is entitled to autonomy.

Every member is entitled to autonomy. every one of us that that we can we can aa any way we want to provided it doesn't interfere with somebody else's right to do the same thing and uh it's a it's a kind of a of a tricky thing like I don't have the right because I get the privilege of speaking I don't have the right to get up here and use gutter language I don't have that right I don't have that right to impose that on what may be a highly spiritual moment for you. And I'm abusing my license to do something when I start doing that.

I tell you a real one reason that's important. Well, it's important to me just because in general, but what it looks like in real life. was over in Tennessee speaking at a conference one night uh one one weekend and the guy who spoke on Saturday night.

I'd never seen him before or since, but he thought he was supposed to do a standup comedy act. Now, you our counter tonight did a great job of doing that. A very enjoyable countdown.

Sometimes they're painful, but that was that was well done. Good fun. And uh that is good clean fun.

Eh, well, this guy thought he was supposed to be funny. He sounded like a Las Vegas comic. If you've been there and enjoyed that special thrill that he was he he w the poor guy was not funny.

I mean, in no way. He tried hard. I swear to God, he tried.

He threw out everything he had. And you know how it is when you're just sinking. you know, you know, you you're going down and you paddle harder, you know, and and that's that's what he and the more he was sinking, the the the worse he got.

And I swear to God, that was the most most absolutely worthless, insulting, inappropriate talk I'd ever heard. And I've heard a bunch of them, but I'm sitting there I'm sitting there with my wife. She doesn't hear that from me.

I sure don't want her hearing it from some clown in Tennessee. No way. You know that that's not what we're there for.

And so I didn't like it personally, but now I was mild compared to the two people sitting right in front of me. One of them was the poor person who invited the speakers. And all the time he's talking, I could see her just squirming.

And the guy sitting behind beside her, I assume was her husband, was it was fascinating. I was watching his neck. you ever seen a thermometer go up, you know, and then you could see the red going up in his neck and his ears started glowing and and I said, "I don't think he's having a good time." And so after that guy finally gave up.

He didn't quit, he just gave up. And uh and uh so I saw that lady that was there and I said, "Uh looked like your friend you were sitting with didn't really enjoy the meeting tonight." and she said, "Tom, you will never know how absolutely mortified I was at that whole deal." Yeah. I have never been more embarrassed in my life.

The man sitting with her was her minister. At the first meeting of AA he had ever attended. And I'll guarantee you it was the last meeting of AA he ever attended.

You think about that. That's more than just purist virtues. That's a matter of just common sense, of common decency.

You know, here's a guy that will impact more alcoholics in the next year than any of us will will will come close to doing. And I'll guarantee you that boy would recommend an alcoholic to go to hell quicker than he would a disservice. Okay, where somebody has taken a license to just sort of shoot off at the mouth and in the course of it how much damage is done.

And so it's not a matter of prudishness or anything like that. You know, my god, I can laugh with folks anyway. But but when you're speaking as an example of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, I think it's awfully important to carry yourself like a good example and not somebody that's just sort of sort of smoking, joking.

I you run into that a fair amount. I I took a guy to the prison a while back that matter of fact that guy was talking about that was 32 years and and and got it got got sober and I'd been wrestling with him. Took him to the prison, told him he'd go over and speak to the guys.

It'd be one way to sort of get his feet wet. So he went in. We meet in a beautiful little chapel.

Beautiful little chapel. Great place. And this guy made his talk and well the guy spoke, let me put it that way.

and he laced it with profanity in a chapel and we don't do that in that group, you know, and and and so we got got through. It's all I could do to keep from just putting a stage hook on him and bringing him down, but I just hated to do that. It's well, we can tolerate.

So, we're riding home and uh he said, "Well, what do you think? How'd it go?" I said, "Well, it went okay, but you'd have been a whole lot better off had you not put all that profanity in it." And he said, 'Well, you I I I I just wanted the guys to know that I was not some big shot, that I was able to operate at the same level. I said, 'What you just did was insult a whole room full of people because what you've communicated is what you think of them, you know, and what you're doing is taking guys, they got 168 hours in their week just like we do.

They got one hour of decency where they can come in and expect to have some sane spiritual stuff and then somebody come in there and contaminate it with that. I was a great disservice and he said, "My God, I never thought of that." I said, "Well, I didn't think you did." Yeah, but uh but you see what I'm talking about. sometimes in that sort of just sort of loosening and and not thinking about the impact of what you're doing.

You're carrying a message, not entertaining. You're carrying a message of hope to people and and so you can negate the value so easily like that. And so that's not a matter of being goody two shoes.

It's a matter of being concerned about carrying a message that has meaning and some depth to it. And so so I and think about that and and the autonomy. I have the right to practice any way I want to but not at your expense.

You've got the right to practice it too. And I can't impose my values on you. And so I like to keep that in mind in in in that autonomy that u and my group is autonomous.

You know, we're free to operate as we wish and so are the groups next door or anywhere else that each one of them is a freestanding entity. But we have to be careful and that's the caution in there that we not we're not ex not exaggerate our importance in the scene that we are good neighbor that we want to be a good neighbor in our a community. We have to be careful of that because very very honestly my group contributes more per quarter than our entire district combined >> and and we don't plan to do that.

We're not competing but we we contribute what we believe is our fair share. I don't think you would be amazed but just in case you'd be amazed I'll tell you that contributions are are pitiful at best. They're pitiful at best and uh it's amazing how many groups contribute zilch absolutely nothing.

So you got a pretty one-dimensional program and so but just because we do that we don't want to lord that over and hold that up as some real banner of achievement or something. We're doing what we believe is right but we have to be careful that we don't taunt anybody with that. You know that that's just a matter of fact.

We almost know it. All I got to do is look at the minutes. And so part of the deal and the uh and and in the fifth one that tells us what our job is.

You each group has but one primary purpose. Carry it message to the alcoholic still suffers. I like to look at it each member has but one primary purpose.

Old Tom I has one primary purpose and that is to carry whatever message I might have to anybody that'll bother to listen. That's my job. That's my primary purpose.

I have a lot of other purposes, but that's my primary and that's always on my mind. When I get an opportunity, I do it on airplanes, you know. I mean, spend half my life on them.

And uh I take full advantage of the opportunity. I watch see who's drinking the most. And and if uh you fly first class, it's free hoots, you know, so most everybody will drink.

If I if they don't drink, I might thinking they might be part of my clan. So, so I kind of watch that. But anyway, that's that's my purpose.

You know, that's what I'm about. And like any other human, I got a lot of things that make up my life, but that's that's my primary thing. That's that's what I'm really about.

You know, I've been given a brand new life. And the only condition is that I share it with the next person. I'm not going to be selfish enough to think that it was intended just for me to enjoy.

I think it was given to me so that I could share it with other people. The sixth one is u I'm kind of it don't sound like it but I'm racing. This is about fast as I can go.

Sixth one is about stuff. You know that that uh where's the reader right here? Six >> problems of money, property and authority may easily divert from our primary spiritual aim.

We think therefore that any considerable property of genuine use to AA should be separately incorporated and managed thus dividing the material from the spiritual. An AA group as such should never go into business. Secondary aids to AA such as clubs or hospitals which require much property or administration ought to be incorporated and so set apart that if necessary they can be freely discarded by the groups.

Hence such facilities ought not to use the AA name. Their management should be the sole responsibility of those people who financially support them. >> Yeah.

>> For clubs, AA managers are usually preferred, but hospitals as well as other places of recuperation or to outside a and medically supervised. While an AA group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied. >> An AA group can bind itself to no one.

>> Thank you. Now, that's the long form. >> Long form is considerably shorter.

If if you do another one, do the short form because it'll make the point. And the uh but that that's a wordy kind of a of a statement there with that. And all I was saying is that we got to be stick to our net.

You know, we don't want to get into owning property prestige because you wind up biting with that with it owning us. And uh you know, I see a lot of well in get traveling around something you see an awful lot of people who tap dance around that thing. Yeah, you go God knows how many groups I know around the country that you know there's well I I'll give you one example of a thousand that a group down near me there you there's some well may not I don't know in Canada but in in our country there's federal money available sometime to enrich sort of community resources and stuff like that.

some some al some some alcoholics is kind of crafty and so they saw an opportunity to get funding provided they put something else in the same building and so they started developing what they call a community building and there's nothing in the world except a subsidized building that's owned by a and paid for by the by the government well you couldn't get more out of whack with that tradition with with that you know it takes all of that responsibility away and we and we wind up owned by by official them. And so they they called me and wanted me to come down and uh speak at the meeting. And uh I said, "Okay, I'll come down." They said, "Yeah, by the way, we want to show you our new club." And I said, "Well, I I'll take a look at your club, but please don't tell me where you got it because I may get arrested as an accomplice and where you got it." And so I went down and looked at stuff.

nice thing, but I I didn't feel good being there because it's just exactly what what that what that is where money property pulls us off course. Let let me put that in a little bit of a of a human context. You from a personal aspect, I have to be off.

Remember that story I was telling about the job with the Jaguar? Yeah. Who you supposed own who with that Jaguar, >> you know, that guy was sold his soul, you know, getting this kind of sort of visual affirmation of himself, I guess.

But whatever it was, I'll give you an example what it could do to a human being. The uh I'll give you two real quick ones. The uh had a guy called me one day.

I it told me I had agreed to speak at his anniversary down in in an adjoining state and I swear I didn't remember it. And uh and uh so he said, "Well, you told me you'd come." And I said, "Did you have a date?" He said, "No, but you told me." I said, "Well, my god, man. I didn't give you my calendar.

It say just pick a date. You got to have a date, you know, and see what we can do." So he told me the date and I said, "No, I'm sorry. I can't do it." And I've already got a commitment.

Now the commitment I had was to my son. Now that's a commitment. You that was a very important commitment.

He was in that little old thing, you know, where you build a little old car kind of that thing where the father builds the car and the son takes a credit. You know, that's that's about the way it works. And so he had one and I said, "If you make the state finals, I'll go with you." Well, that was my commitment.

He made the state finals and I I told him I was going. So I told the guy, now this guy was a kind of a high roller type fell. He was in the the not wrestling cows, he was in the cow selling business and doing rather well.

And uh so so I told him, I said, "No, I'm sorry. I can't do it." I He said, "But you said you'd come." I said, "Yeah, but I didn't give you my life. You know, you pick a day to come, I'll be glad to do it, but otherwise I can't do it.

Got to commit." And he said, "Well, let me check it a little bit." Yeah. He wouldn't give up. He had to have who he wanted when he wanted them.

And so he called me back in a little while. And he said, "Can you be at" and I told him, I said, "I I can't be back before 6:00 in the evening because I've got the travel to do." He said, "Can you be at the Southern Pines Airport at 6:00 p.m.?" I said, "Yeah, I can." He said, "Great. Come on down and be ready to travel cuz we're going down to to to that state." So, this is before 911.

And uh I got to the airport, of course, small airport. Everybody knows everybody. And so when I got there, they didn't have all this security like we do now.

And they already had the door open. It looked like they escorting the president to the helicopter. You know, they over there.

I'm running through there to get to the helicopter. That's what he's got parked as a helicopter running. I said, "My god, I didn't sign up for this kind of stuff, man.

I'm supposed to just be sober and happy. I'm not supposed to be riding that stupid thing." So, so I got on it and I rattled all the way to to down in the Laurian, South Carolina. Thought we'd never get there.

It was like riding a pogo stick for God's sake. It just when when I got Thank you so much. I Well, we're talking about this sacrifice and giving stuff.

You didn't hear that part. Yeah. But we got down there.

When I got off that thing, I was shaking. I got right straight to the podium and and I was shaking the podium and I still had got I got through with it and next morning we I'm headed back. So we go back and get the helicopter took off and all at once he bang down on the ground.

I said, "Why'd you slam dunk this thing?" He said, "I didn't slam dunk it. We crashed." I said, "God knows, man. I think I'm ever going to get out of here." there.

So he borrowed another plane, flew me in. I finally got there. When he got off, he handed me an envelope and I said, "What's that?" He said, "Just a thank you card.

We appreciate you coming down." I said, "Okay, fine." Put it in my pocket, got home, opened it up, had a lot of money in it. So I called him immediately and I said, "Big guy, you just made a bad mistake." He He said, "What?" I said, "You put a bunch of money in my pocket and we don't do that." He said, "No, no, no." He said, "That's all right. We can afford that thing.

That's what we want to do." And I said, "No, we don't do that. I'm not a hooker. I'm not for sale.

I don't rent out. That's not what this is about." I said, "Don't you tell me where to send this back. And don't you ever do that to anybody else in aa me especially because what he's doing, if I had taken that, I would have been for sale." And that's not what we do.

We give it away. You know, we don't we don't sell it for God's sakes. and uh that guy and and by the way that was his third anniversary.

He had to have it his way and unfortunately it was his last anniversary because he died drunk shortly after that. And and well and it stood to reason you that you can't have it on those terms you tell you one other one that u really brought it home to me was uh I had a 12step call one night and it was to the high rent district. I live right next door to a place called Pinehurst which is our pebble beach.

It's a real fancy golf resort and I knew the area and uh so he called me and he lived on Millionaire Row and so I knew I was good into the high rent. Got a guy sponsored to come on go with me. So went in and just tell you what money will do.

The uh he he he answered the door and he had on a smoking jacket. I'd never seen one except in the movies. Yeah.

And he's wearing a smoking jacket. And I said, "Well, this is going to be good now." I said, "Go in." He got Sinatra playing on the sound system. And uh so he he said, "You want me to turn it off?" I said, "No, I like old Blue Eyes.

Just let him finish that song." And he finished it and uh cut it off. And he said he was ready. He said, "Why I'm looking at you?

Just call you red. punishing you for read reading that long form. He had and he uh he said, "Would you like me to tell you about myself?" I said, "Yeah, that'd be interesting.

I'd love to hear it." He said, "Well, I'll tell you this. The last person," he said, "I just got out of treatment just a while back. They ripped me off for $30,000." I said, "Well, sometimes it's expensive." and he said, "The last guy that did what you and this fell are doing ripped me off for $300,000." And I said, "Well, life's tough." And uh and then there's one other one he mentioned that was just an outlandish kind of a thing.

Well, he'd already told me enough, you know, I understood what he was talking about. You know, that this was a guy. Now, he was a owner of an international corporation.

He was not a high roller. He was a mega roller. And and so so he's telling me all of this stuff that uh that that he had every time he he mentioned it, he mentioned a ripoff that came with it.

You know, that that that that money just screwed up whatever the transaction was. And so and he said he said, "You can tell I'm not a rookie. I've been through this before." for it.

And he he said, "I've talked to every expert in the United States and some other countries. What do you suppose you can tell me that I don't already know?" And I said, "Well, probably nothing." I said, "But let me just tell you one thing that I want you to know. Me and this fell wouldn't sell you 30 minutes of our time for $300,000.

It ain't for sale, buddy. It ain't for sale. And that old boy just quieted right down right down that somehow you're given what you need to say that man you don't buy this.

It ain't for sale. You got to you got to give up for it to happen. And from that point on we we had a pretty dogone good session.

He wound up coming into the program. He died 11 years later with complete sobriety. But see what see what I'm talking about?

What money can do. This guy had himself imprisoned in a mansion with with God. It was a it was a pitiful thing.

I ran into him in the DF Dallas airport one time. I'm going to jockstrap Arkansas or somewhere to tote the message and do God's work. I said, "Where are you guys going?" Him and his wife.

He said, "Well, we thought we'd go down to Aapokco for a few days." And I said, "You poor baby. I don't know how in the world you stand that." But it was ju it's just great that to me it makes the point that that when you get money in it what you do is screw it up and you become owned by that he's imprisoned with his own richness and and it what a what a tragic thing to see that happen and and it can happen so easily so easily when we start getting that mixed up and we get to thinking that we can buy our way through and because we got a few bucks we can buy a little better better piece of cake or something and so it I could give you 50 examples of that kind of thing, but you you see the point that when we get owning buildings, the buildings on us, if you go down, I'm far enough away that I can say this without fear of retaliation. Texas is is really know really, really famous for this thing.

Every little old town's got a building either that they own or it's one that they rent or something there. And typically, not only in Texas, but about anywhere, where you see where people have got a building, you'll wind up having about 30 meetings a week, what do you think their primary purpose is? >> You better believe it.

You better believe it. Cuz when you start paying rent for downtown property, it takes a whole bunch of collections to do that. Your primary purpose gets totally shifted out of whack.

And so anyway, that that whole business of of what can happen where we own stuff and instead of us we owning it, it owns us. You've seen it. My god, you've seen it.

Where people are just identified by what they have instead of who they are. And so that's what could so easily happen to us where we get carried away with that. We're going to impress somebody so much that we lose our our way in the process.

Seven is the uh the antithesis of that is about being self-supporting. that each group should be self-supporting except in >> fully self-supporting. What >> every group ought to be fully self-supporting declining.

>> That's that's the exception. I I'm brain dead here. I think Canada gotten to me or something.

But that's yeah except matters. You know, you know what that means to me and I hopefully to you is that when I go into an AA meeting, I want to joke. I I want to contribute at least as much as I consume.

That's my criteria, you know, that if I'm going to drink some coffee, I know what coffee costs. If I enjoy the air conditioning, I know what air conditioning costs. We all do.

And so I want to just sort of do a rough calculation and make sure that I pay my proportionate share. Now it's a guess of course but the spirit of it is that I don't want to freload. I don't want somebody else to have to pay my weight.

You know I want to carry my weight and be self-supporting. And uh the uh not everybody can. Sometimes you have to contribute just by by pitching in and helping with the work.

There are many ways to contribute. Money is not the only way. But as long as I start paying my way, then I'm not going to feel like I'm still hoodwinking people like I made a career of doing that.

I carry my weight. I want to take my my fair share of that. So that whole business of self support is so critical.

We lose a lot of people, but we're getting tangled up with money matters. And so that that tradition is pretty important. Eight is about kind of following up on that business.

You don't sell it. that uh number eight that short form on there. >> Alcoholics synonymous should remain forever nonprofessional but a service sentence may employ special.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

Basically saying that we don't hire out just like I was telling that guy. But it's it's it's a tricky thing, you know, that like a lot of people who get into recovery wind up working in the treatment field and and it can be can do good work. It's tricky work.

It is really tricky work because it's what the difficulty is is this thing of separating one from the other. I I had a woman call me that I mean I'd known her for years but we weren't close friends or anything. She called me and asked if asked me to go to lunch with her on her.

Well, I couldn't turn that down, you know, because I want her to be self-supporting. So, so I went and and I knew she had something on her mind. You know, she wouldn't have called me otherwise.

So, I went over and she you know, you tell people got something on their mind. She said, she said, "Tom, you're real still real active in AA, aren't you?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm still active. My god, yes." said, I said, "Aren't you?" Like, I didn't know, you know, she hadn't been to a meeting for probably 15 years, but I said, "Aren't you?" And she said, "Well, no." And I said, "Why not?" She said, and this is a sad comment.

She said, "I gave at the office." How far off base could you get? You don't give at the office. You sell at the office.

You don't give. And uh I mean you may give a little labor but you get well compensated for it as a rule. and she was well compensated.

But see see what it does. It it takes away that sense of of really being somebody who is a genuine member of AA and get sold out for that and and a lot of people do do that thing of uh just like I sponsor a number of people who who work in in the treatment field and there there two basic things I look for with people who work in treatment field. One is if they get up to speak and they make a treatment lecture, then you can tell the difference.

You you don't need anybody to tell you what it is. You'll you'll recognize it immediately. And when I hear that, if it's somebody I that I sponsor, we're going to have a talk.

We're going to have a talk or at a at a discussion where they get into counseling instead of sharing. Yeah. And those are the kind of things that'll just sort of erode your integrity in the field, you know.

So, it's a it's a tricky kind of a deal. It's sometimes pretty subtle, too. I I had a guy call me.

How are we doing? I never have changed my clock. Well, right.

So, we are Well, I'm hurrying. I'm hurt. I'm Hey, God knows I keep forgetting about that.

Jesus, you guys are rich, man. You got clocks everywhere. I got I had a guy was an attorney that I'd worked with a lot trying to work trying to help him, you know, and he was just a hard-headed meatthead guy.

Uh he was a a st he was a a real good athlete. He played football Duke University and baseball. He holds the all-time Atlantic.

You could look it up if you want to, but holds the all-time Atlantic Coast Conference record for times at bat without a strikeout. That is typical kind of athlete, a real hard driving athlete, you know, aggressive sort of guy. I I intervened on him personally one time.

Went into his office and just took him out. And I I said that sucker's life will knock me out before I get out of there, but I'm going anyway. So I went in there, worked on him.

Didn't work. Kept me busy. It kept me off the street while I was wrestling with him.

And uh so I had a history with him, been sober a few times. And I got a phone call for him one day. I know it was a hard phone call for him to make.

And he said, "Tom, I need a little help." And that was hard for him to say. I need a little help. And I said, "And what might that be?" and he said, "Well, I was in your town a while back and I jumped town with a hotel bill unpaid." And he said, "Those cheapkates are going to prosecute me and I'm going to have to go to court and they're going to put me in jail." I said, "Well, it ain't as bad as it sounds.

You know, I've been there myself." And but there was no sale. He said, "No, man. I can't go down.

I'm a lawyer. They'll kill me." And so I I said, "Where is it?" And he told me and I said, "Well, okay. I'll take care of it." And so I did.

I went over. He said, "Now I got to have a receipt cuz if I don't have a receipt, man, I'm gone." So I said, "Okay, I'll get it to you." So I went over, paid the bill, and got that. And he said, "I will pay you back because I'm selling my car and soon as I get that money, you'll be paid back." I said, "Don't worry about it.

For God's sakes, man, you're worth a few bucks." And so don't worry about it. I'm not. And uh he said, "No, I want to pay you." I said, "Well, fine." So little later, now now listen to the subtlety of this.

This is what a crafty lawyer will do. He sent me a check for the amount plus $5. >> Is that KY or what?

You know a better way to negate a gift? That's like tipping a waiter. And I I I very carefully placed that back in the envelope and said, "You're probably a good lawyer, but your math stinks.

Do something appropriate with that." Yeah. Said it back. But you see a simple little thing like that.

E, and he probably didn't think about that, but that would negate the value. That way he could push it off. And those don't caring about a guy like me.

But he couldn't say that, you know, that that I wouldn't if I'm for sale, it's surely not for $5. And so, but anyway, just a sneaky thing about about that whole business. And like that guy that the one I tell with the helicopter, you know, had I taken that money, that would have paid for everything.

You know, that would have been he didn't have any obligation, no appreciation to anybody. He'd hired somebody to come in and be an out of town entertainer. And uh so sneak just sneaky kind of stuff like that.

And so that thing of being careful, if I take one cent for anything I do, I'm a professional. I may be underpaid, but I'm a professional. If I take any money for anything I do at AA, that's tricky because like, you know, I travel a great deal and just like coming here, there there's considerable expense to fly some drunk half, not halfway, all the way across the country, particularly into Vancouver, man.

and they think this is precious land and they have a bonus payment due for landing on the cherish soil. Uh so there's a lot of it and I had to be careful with that you know that that I I take expend I take I if I didn't take reimbursement for expenditures I would be sponsoring the workshop and that's a little out of whack you know and so it's just that's what we do we pay our way you know with whatever it takes and uh and that that can be a tricky kind of a train sometimes and so that whole business of of of of of of of money and how we handle it. Oh, I wanted to tell you one other thing if I just jump back for a minute to that seven.

I'll tell you just one one little little quick story on that thing about how valuable it is. I you know I mentioned that that group I sponsor in the prison. When we started to set that group up, we had a meeting with the warden and all the staff there just sort of going over ground what we're going to do.

And in the course of it, I I said we would like for this group to be self-supporting as much as possible. Meaning, we don't want anything from the state provided to that group. We want that to be a group of Alcoholics Anonymous.

And the warden said he we knew each other. He said, "Tom, you know these guys don't have any money." I said, "Don't kid yourself, man. Some of them got more money than me and you put together, but now most of them don't." That's right.

We most don't. I said, "But do you can you imagine how much dignity you can buy for 50 cents if that's about all if that's about all you have?" He he was just quiet for a minute. He said, "I see what you mean." So that right today that that group of guys that's probably the most the the thing they have the greatest pride in is the fact they're self-supporting.

We do a little program for new arrivals where some guys from the group go and tell them about the group. One of the things they always say at the end of our meetings we have we have refreshments. We'll have coffee and pop stuff like that.

And they always say, and you can believe this prison and this state has absolutely nothing to do with providing that. We buy that stuff. We're self-supporting.

This is great to see them hustling. They start trying to beat something out of people. Great to see.

But what they're doing is learning the principles. Hey, they're learning the principles in that. And uh so in and the other story, I just mentioned that, but no extra charge, but I'm going to throw in one more.

I I was I was in uh I was out in California. A guy called me from I didn't know him, but he called me from the somewhere out on the coast and he wanted me to come to a town and to speak to a gathering of the AAS in three cities. And I I said that's fine with me.

I'd be glad to do it. The dates open and I'll be glad to do it. And uh he said, "Now, while you're here, we would also like for you to speak at a penitentiary." And I said, "I'd be glad to do it." And I said, "I hate to tell you, but uh that'll probably be the the feature for me." He said, "Well, me too, but we won't announce that.

We'll just have the regular meeting." So I went over to that well I got a deal in the mail that that was from the federal penitentiary at at at that place in California and I opened a letter and I couldn't why they writing to me you know maybe clearance or whatever you know I didn't know what but opened it up and there I guess you called it a a voucher or something that was a it's a deal saying that it named a figure and said expenses for a speaker. I took a look at that thing. I said, "Come on, man.

You got to be kidding me." And so I called the guy and I said, "Look, buddy, it's been a mistake." And uh I said, "What's he what?" I said, "Well, I just got this thing from the penitentiary saying that that was they had a voucher saying that they was they going to pay expense for a speaker." I said, "That's not the way we do it." He said, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, we do it like that all the time." I said, "No, you don't. You used to do it like that.

you know, you don't do it like like that with me. That deal is over. And uh and he was we had an interesting conversation.

We we had a lot long conversation about the seventh tradition. He pleaded ignorance. I don't think he was quite as ignorance as ignorant as he claimed to be, but he was pretty ignorant.

And uh so we so we worked it out and I worked out some way to get on an airplane with no wings or something to fly out there. It was it was a talk about a jail cheapo. But we went and uh it it it was okay, but it had a little bit of a stressful feel to it.

Yeah. I mean, you know, there's a climate. You can tell when you walk in.

Nobody has to tell you, but it just didn't feel comfortable. And uh so we got we got her done. And about a year later, he called me and he said, "Now, Tom, listen to me before you say anything." He said, "We want you to come back out here and do a rerun.

You didn't do it right first time." And so, they want you to come back out. And he said, "Now, we've got it right. We have got this thing fixed." I said, "Tell me about it." So, he told me what what they were doing.

And and I tell you that they did do it right. And what they did was it's what what I wanted to just show you that it's it's about far more than money. It's about a lot more than money.

And and but and what happened when I I I take this with me when I'm going to be even touching on traditions because this was something that had great value to me. That first time I went out there, it was okay, but it was routine. You know what I mean?

It's just sort of a sort of just a routine little deal. The next time I went out, it was a totally different different place there. He he sent me this.

If any of you have ever been around institutions, this is called a withdrawal sheet. And what they did at the federal penitentiary was circulate a withdrawal sheet. And every member of the group who wanted to contribute to the expenses of of the what we were doing signed up and different amount.

Some of them wrote bad checks believe it or not they made a contribution had no money but their tent was good. Their bank account wasn't very good but but they they they paid and it was light years different. You know these I was the guest of those people.

You know I wasn't some guy being shipped in here to preach to them. I was a guy they that they and what happened the three towns took care of the air travel and the guys in the joint took care of the ground expenses of the hotel meal whatever expenses we had the guys took care of that. that self-support you know and and that thing of just giving a welfare state you know and then taking care of everything is can be a great disservice you know and I just wanted to share that one with you that was one of the real payoffs for holding the ground and taking a look at that uh so I keep it and there's that voucher they said yeah anyway I don't even want to look at it but something else really really power tradition truly are powerful and then the uh ninth one is about bosses and stuff.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Aa as such will never be organized, but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

>> Yeah. Yeah. That's uh a while ago when we were doing the thing here, somebody asked people to identify that had helped put this on.

You know, you know that's leadership. You know the these things don't just happen spontaneously. It does.

It just doesn't work that way. Believe me, if you haven't been involved and and and so somebody has to step forward and self respon self responsibility and take care of business and that way stuff happens. If without leadership, what you got is a crowd.

With leadership, you can have an organized kind of a function that'll come off well and nobody has to go to jail as a rule. As a rule, sometimes once in a while if they do, we've decided it's Alex that has to go >> >> It's called we love him. And so the same thing in the program that that that we don't have they don't have leadership per se, but we have service committees and and and and these things directly responsible those they serve.

It's just like I said about my group. We have every service that's done in alcoholics anonymous done in our group and they're responsible. Each one of these is an autonomous function in our group.

They need no like I'm on the corrections committee and also on the program committee which plans the meetings ahead and all that kind of stuff and speakers and all that and and those committees function autonomously. They elect their own leadership. They make all their decisions.

They don't need approval from the larger group for anything unless they need something beyond their means, you know. and if it needs some money or something, they'll bring it to business meeting and and we'll take care of it. But that that's what that's about is, you know, that that group has the autonomy to operate in ter in in in the interest of our common welfare.

And and so it's the same at any level that we service committees like our intergroup office. you know, this kind of a thing can come under that that umbrella where people are they're they're hired they're hired employees, but they they're hired at the same rate you would that if you had to hire somebody else. And so it's done that way.

Our folk in the general service, sometimes we forget. And when we're complaining about something, hey, we'll look at what they're doing in New York. They're not doing anything in New York.

What they're doing in New York is serving as our staff. That's what they do. And each one of them has a desk where they're responsible for a particular function.

And and so that's what they do. They're not doing 12step work. What they're doing are things that make the 12step work.

That makes the 12step work. Give you a quick example on that. I got a call from a guy up there one day and he asked me if I would work with a guy in Kenya and in over in Africa.

And I said, "What do you mean?" I I said, "Now, if you talking about going to Kenya, I'm not going to Kenya." If people shoot a lot over there, so I ain't going. He said, "You don't have to do it. You can do it electronically." That he's good on email.

He speaks better English than you, but you ain't saying much. And so, and I said, "Okay, we'll tackle it." And and this guy, I learned more about Kenya than I really wanted to know. But you what I found out is that Kenya has 30 million people.

2 million of them live in Nairobi. 28 mill million live in god knows where the rest of Kenya and to round them up it would take an awfully big roundup and so he's concentrated in Nairobi period and and so this fell Michael's his name is a marvelous fellow and and and so he was he had some some grit and some ambition he wanted to get the program out he wanted to do something in the correctional facility had a lot of interest in that so he had a lot of folks locked up and wanted to do something So, I had the real pleasure of helping that guy draft a plan. Yeah.

When you start, it's amazing what you run into when you start trying to draft a plan in a country where the average family lives on less than a dollar a day. Less than a dollar a day. They're not going to have a lot to put into the basket.

They're not they're going to have very little. So, they had problems, you know. And so, I I told him I said, "Tell me about your place." He said, "Ask me some questions.

It'll make it a little easier." So I ask him the ob the obvious questions to me, you know, where are the facilities? How far you got to travel to get there? What kind of resources do you have?

Do you have any connections with the people? What about transportation? Do you have any cars?

You know, do you money? You know, stuff like that. I mean, just natural logical information to if you're going to start launching a plant.

That's where I found out about the demographics of Kenya and and the economic status. So, it's a real challenge. And what we wound up doing is said, "You're going to have to carpool.

You only got one car. Let's pitch in." Everybody get five people, put them in the car, everybody put in a little something, you might be able to drive. Had to steal tires, too.

They didn't have any tires. So, anyway, it was an interesting challenge. But that's what our office does.

Okay, I did the 12step work, but somebody in the office that we employ to handle international affairs is the one who answered the phone and talked to Michael and said, you know, they don't do service at the general service office. What they do is the administrative work so that that could get funneled to the right person. And they I was a guy with a short stick.

So I I got it and and what a great experience that uh I went over it and one of the things that there's a little bit of a language problem. He uh he he Michael wanted to do some public I told him I said you need to do some public information and CPC work like get a cooperative relationship you and talking with folks and get some interest well he didn't quite understand what that meant so he sent me a picture big blown up picture had 600 fellas sitting squatted on the yard of the p prison and Michael is up on some big platform making a speech He thought the information was to tell the inmates. I said, "No, no, you got to get the people who run the place, you know, to have a little knowledge about the thing." So, great fun working with that.

And and so that's, you know, it's what happens where our staff can do a good job and then they'll get one of us to provide the service. That's exactly the way it's supposed to work. That's why we got people there.

And sometime we we criticize the service for what they do. what they they're our staff and what they do is provide the services we employ them to do. And so that's just kind of an important thing to me to know about tradition.

So 10 is uh >> Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues. The AA name ought to never be drawn into public controversy. >> Yeah.

Let let me refer to something that came up in the question. Says people were talking about relationships of all kinds, you know, and and to me this has an awful lot to do with with relationships. This whole business about, you know, that we have no opinion on outside issues.

I I'm a little generous with that thing. And and I I like to to to think of outside issues are things that are none of my bis none of my business within the fellowship that You probably don't have this in Vancouver, but in some places in our country like my my area, we have the problem of real gossip with gossip and that's all you can talk it. And gossip is a dangerous thing.

I have seen suicides as a result of gossip where somebody's casually talking about stuff they got no business talking about. And and this this this notion is more than a notion. And it's an old principle that is often abused that what happens in AA stays in AA.

What you hear in AA stays in AA. It is not for street corner conversation. And to me, that's what this kind of thing means in in in that tradition is that that it means more than just how we communicate with the world.

It's how we honor and respect each other's privacy. So I think gossip is very much a part of what's covered in that in that tradition that and and then opin the other is kind of obvious been about having opinions on outside issues and uh and and so gossip is an outside issue. That's the reason I bring that one up and a dangerous one.

Very dangerous one. Like any citizen, you know, I have concerns that I that that I that I I want to deal with, but I've got to be careful that I speak as an individual and not represent myself as speaking on behalf of AA. I one little illustration that I had a I got really angry with our governor one time.

Yeah, I know y'all don't ever get elected get angry at your elected official, but I was just mad. Yeah, because he he just did some dumb stuff that in a way impacted on aa and and and I I flat didn't like it. And I I not only I supported this dude.

I gave him money because I thought he was a good man. I was wrong. But but he probably is a good man, but not in that job.

And so he he did some stuff that I just flat just could not accept. So I wrote him a nice little letter that I guarantee he didn't show to his mama. And uh and uh he answered it.

No secretary would write a a memo as as ugly as that one. Not the wording, but the composition. That was a amateur.

Uh well, I had to be very careful that while it related to dealing with alcoholics, you know, I had to be very careful that I didn't give any kind of insinuation that I was speaking on behalf of Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm speaking as a as a as a as a taxpaying citizen, as somebody who voted him for him on the belief that he would do something worthwhile. And uh but it had to be careful with that.

We had to be very careful that I simply don't have the right to speak on behalf of anybody else. And just because I feel strongly about it doesn't mean other people do. Tell you one other place that that I run into that a lot.

I do a session at a law school. You usually once a year that's with third-year law students. you know, they're getting ready to go go practice and they want to bring somebody in to talk about dealing with alcoholics in the court system, what attorneys can do to and so I go down and do that.

Invariably, invariably, because you've seen I kind of like interactive stuff. Invariably, they'll ask me my position on legalizing marijuana, for example. Well, now I'm down there with full identification as an AA member and as an AA member, I have absolutely no position on that.

So, I refuse to answer it and they beat on me hard, you know, trying to get me. But, but you see what the caution is because if I do that, in their minds, I'm speaking on behalf of our fellowship and we don't have a position on that. And so, I have to be very very careful when I'm doing that thing.

and and and you'll probably run into the same thing if you don't already when you go out just to let people assume that you're speaking on behalf of the fellowship. And so it's a a tricky kind of an area. And so that 10 is that thing about operating within your the context of who we are, what we're about and have to be careful with that stuff.

Yeah. 11. >> Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion.

We need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's that's exactly right.

I the uh Yeah. I think I mentioned in one of the earlier sessions that our program of attraction is us. We are the program of attraction.

It's not I mean, we do ads and all that kind of stuff, but I don't think that's the program of attraction. I think we attract people by the way we handle ourselves or we repel people by the way we handle ourselves and we can do either one. We're quite capable of it.

And a lot of times then when we get casual, we get relaxed and sometime we'll forget that we've got people who are keenly aware of who we are. And uh and often times I know at one time I had one of my bosses, a secretary of correction that and I were meeting in a corrections workshop and uh we went over and had dinner. I and the the boss was really kind of a stern old dude, but he was in a jocular mood and we were having the manager came over and told me he said, "We're going to have to close this down a little bit over here.

God know you're running our customers off." Well, we weren't exactly a sterling example of decorum. You know, that that night I wasn't real proud of that. And uh I'll tell you one time when I really had this brought home to me in a positive way.

I had a bunch of guys that we were getting ready to put on a workshop in a district meeting and and so we met at at in the lobby of a hotel where one of our folks was staying and we were meeting. Now, we had about a half dozen people, you know, me and five other people. We're going to be doing a panel.

So, we were going over this thing, getting our game plan together, what we're going to do and how we're going to do it and all that kind of stuff. And now I would I paid no attention. I don't think anybody else did in our bunch to anything going on in the lobby.

I had noticed at the next table, this is a good good example. The I noticed the next table a white-haired couple, there was an older couple were sitting there and I noticed they kept cutting a look over there every once in a while. So they got up, went over, checked out and came back by and they stopped at the table and the lady was a boulder of the two.

She said, "We didn't intend to ease drop on what you guys are doing, but we were just curious. What are you doing?" I said, "Well, we're we're going to be putting putting over the panel this afternoon and we're we're sort of getting it together." And she said, "Oh, what's the panel about?" I said, "It's about service." And she said, "Well, that's nice." In relation to what? And I said, "Alcoholics Anonymous." And she and her husband finally spoke up and said, "Boy, isn't that great?" Yeah.

And she said, "The reason we noticed that we are both people who have been highly engaged in all kinds of circles. You guys were the most intensely focused people either of us had ever seen." Now, that was a shining moment for Alcoholics Anonymous. Suppose we would have been there just barking out dirty jokes and stuff like that.

that you wouldn't have been much of a program of attraction. E >> yeah, but I'll guarantee you either one of those old folks would send their grandchildren without hesitation. And so that's that's why I think just a matter I don't think you have to be be be paranoid about stuff, but just a matter of being conscious that particularly small towns, people know you.

Yeah. I mean, they know who you are and then when they see that you we're going to be an example, good or bad. We'll be one or the other.

We can't be neutral. And so it it is an important thing in that program of attraction that we uh that we uh be be very careful about, you know, how we handle ourselves when we're dealing with people to do it in an appropriate kind of way to demonstrate who you know the the quality and integrity of what we're about. And so we we we got a lot that you got a lot of stuff program.

I won't go into a bunch of it, but there's we get a lot of notoriety on on on television and and and unfortunately a lot of it creates a lot of dismay for me because you know what's happened is that Alcoholics Anonymous rather than public information. I never thought I'd see the day, but all too often Alcoholics Anonymous becomes the butt of jokes in late night comedy. >> And it's a tragic thing, you know, that is not their fault.

Yeah, I mean we it's up to us to help people understand differently than that. So So we we we sort of get what we fail to sew in in in a way, but but those are not things that attract people, but they're things that just happen and and so I hate to see that happen. You get stuff in in in papers that um we we had a thing and I know you have them here.

In fact, you just had something in this city that's absolutely heartbreaking that had to do in a different venue, but it had to do with identifying people in ways that are tremendous tremendously injurious. It just happened right not far from where we sit and so it's not isolated you that this kind of thing. Whether that was related to anybody with alcoholism or whatever, I don't know.

I haven't read it yet, but I just heard it. And we had a deal in in North Carolina where boy meets girl on a a campus and and that's not newsworthy. It happens and and unfortunately it doesn't always work out.

And you had a case where a a guy and a girl this is what wound up in the paper had apparently gotten involved and they they went out somewhere and the guy murdered the girl and crushed her head with a rock. A brutal. Well, there's no such thing as a gentle murder, but but that was a brutal kind of a a coldhearted kind of a thing.

Well, the newspaper just absolutely blasted that as they would. That's their job for God's sakes. That's what they're paid.

That that's what they paid for. They the public has a right to know. And so they reported it and it made it sound like that they met in aa and and the scheme was hatched there that culminated with that.

And I I was really troubled about that. Troubled a great deal because it what an image, eh? What an image.

How do you deal with it? And I was racking my brain trying to figure out because you you what we have to recognize is particularly when you're dealing with outside agencies is that writers and editors when they're going through journalism school, they learn nothing about anonymity in AA. it's not taught.

So if we want them to understand that, it's us who has to carry that message, not depend on somebody else because it simply won't happen. And uh so I was trying to figure out what to do and I writing a an angry letter about that would have been adding cold to the fire. It would not have been been an effective thing.

And I just felt compelled to do something and and but what could you do? Attack somebody for doing their job? I mean, they have to report this stuff as factually as they can.

And and so I was sweating over it and about two weeks later, a writer on that same paper wrote an extremely sensitive article. It wasn't contradicting the other article. He but he wrote a very sensitive art article about a thing.

I wrote a letter of commenation to that writer didn't mention the other letter but gave the commenation for the proper reporting you know and in that way may raise the level of sensitivity but but it's all all we can do I mean you couldn't attack people for doing what they have to do and and you know you if you have concerns about those kind of things you know it's in our court you know how do we get people to be more sensitive to that kind of asking them is one simple way to do that. And u so television people, all that kind of stuff, those are the public that we need to inform and help them understand the criticality of anonymity and in in in in early recovery. Very critically important, but they don't know it if we don't bother to tell them.

I I had a group of guys I I was doing a workshop California with a bunch of old goats. I mean, they were old. And uh we were up on a up on a piece of a mountain and there's four guys came in from California and they they were just young guys out trying to have a good time.

They were going up and down the coast harassing people and they it was harmless, you know, they were just out on the so they heard there were some old goats up on the mountain. They were a guys. I heard there were some old goats up there.

And so here they came and they were just just sort of goofing around. Eh, they they were just trying to have a little fun. So they came in and they kept throwing out a little stuff there, you know, trying to get a little humor and all they hit was a stone wall.

You know, we we weren't buying any of that. So they finally came up, gave up on, you know, trying to turn it into a party and because we weren't going to do that, you know, we it's fine for you to have fun, but not at our expense. So, we got work to do.

And uh so they gave up on that and one of the guys spoke up. They were off from Hollywood and he said said, "We'd really like to get into discussion." He said, "We've got an enormous problem and everybody here knows it. uh that our people who are well-known celebrities are always in the press and on television exposing everything about their their problems with alcohol, their attempt to do somebody coming out of treatment.

And uh and and and sort of the spokesman of the group said, "What can we do about it?" And uh I said, 'Well, you may be able to do something that I said, but you what? I said, let me just ask you a question. Answer your question with a question.

When was the last time anybody in Hollywood, California, met with the editor of P of the paper and talked about the sensitivity of of anonymity for people in early recovery? Of course, you know the answer. Yeah, it was just a blank look.

Okay, there there's there's your point of action. If you care about that and you want something done, bother to go and have a talk with the editor or manager or whoever and explain what this is. People don't know that.

They don't know it. And so if we don't bother to let them know who is. So I think this whole business of of you how you deal with that thing and and let this program of attraction not turn into some sick joke on television and but that's us and if we don't care it'll keep happening.

But I think that's very much the balls in our court on that kind of thing. So that to me I mean that's kind of a weak sounding tradition but when you think about it in that regard an awful lot of people die trying to get in these doors and they wind up in this just sort of bouncing ball thing. So it's pretty important kind of thing I think.

Yeah. And >> anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions. Ever reminding us >> anonymity spiritual foundation of all our traditions.

Every one of them about anonymity. That's you notice he didn't put the mic over here till I'm just about finished. He wants to say amen is all he wants on here.

That's but that that that was about anonymity. The uh and and you real truth is that that that 12th tradition is is not so much about secrecy. It's about humility, you know, so that we don't take a lot of credit for what we do.

We don't need a lot of recognition. That's that's real the real spirit of what that's about. I a guy explained it one time in a in a meeting I was in.

He said, "Humility is doing something for somebody and not letting them know it." That's a big test, too. It is a big test to do something and don't let them find out about it. That that's what the humility and anonymity is about is is getting down to that.

And personally, that you I really believe that anonymity is is is something that we we we really bounce around in all kinds of directions. personal kind of example. I, as you've gathered, I I travel a lot.

A lot, you know, I fly more than pilots do. And my wife is thrilled about it, too. I can tell you, I don't know where we're going to get divorced, but if she has to go to Saskatchewan, she's going to stay with me.

So, for years on planes, you know how it is. You sit down with somebody and you start talking. What's your dog's name?

and where'd your kids go to school and all this kind of stuff just chitchat you know and for many many years people would you know obviously we're flying to Vancouver you know but say where are you going said well I thought I might go to Vancouver since that's where the plane's going and so but you know just just brilliant questions like that and uh and then nearly always for many years the way I handle it it's say what are you going to do in Vancouver And uh for years I I wouldn't lie. I would just sort of put a little smokec screen on it, you know. I' I'd say, "Oh, I'm going there to a retreat, you know, and oh, is that right?

What's it about?" I said, "Oh, it's about troubled families and individuals and problems." You know, I just sort of sort of fog it that way, you know. And it dawned on me one time, what on earth am I doing for God's sakes? You I'm up here in a in a in a in a metal pipe blasting through the air, you know, 30, 40,000 feet in the air.

Don't tell anybody. You don't have God almighty. What has that got to do with anonymity for God's sakes?

That is the dumbest thing. And when it finally dawned on me, uh, what are you doing, my friend? That's stupid.

Yeah, it's either fear or pride. That's all. That's all.

Either fear or pride. And so I I thought that about that and I said, you know, I'm not going to do that anymore. And I haven't.

I tell if if if if people want to know where I'm going, I'll tell them. And if they want to know what I'm doing, I tell them. Yeah.

In no uncertain terms. If they're not careful, I'll tell them a whole lot, you know. And uh and but it is stupid that here I am is it couldn't be more isolated for God's sake.

Good chance might not even get back and I'm going to don't tell anybody you Jesus. That is not intended to be a prison, you know. And so I just I just I right now somebody asked me and I I' I've got enough sense to know when you're boring somebody.

And but I tell you what and and that's I've been doing it now for probably 35 or 40 years. I have never had one single person who was less than eagerly interested. Not a single one who ever said, "Oh, that's nice." Not a single one.

because almost everybody has one in their tree somewhere. >> And so that time I say that and say, "Well, I've been want to ask somebody." So get into it's amazing what happens. I found an awful lot of alcoholics in hiding and I found an awful lot of of of alanons.

you. I got on a plane one day and was sitting with a a rather well-nourished lady from Iowa and she she you big girl and uh she so we we went through the routine and and she said, "Where you going?" I told her and she said, "What for?" And I said, "A conference." She said, "What kind?" I said, "Hey." And I noticed she sort of cut a look at me when I said that. And so I was waiting for the next punch and she said, you know, I used to be an alenot.

And I said, why'd you quit? She said, well, my husband died. And said, I just kind of drifted away.

Now, I know this is going to be shocking to you, but she married another alcoholic. That's hard to accommodate, but she did. She married another alcoholic.

And she said, "That sucker won't let me go to Alanoth." And uh I said, "Why not?" She said, "Well, I don't know why not. you know, he drank something to it, said he's afraid I'll make make him quit or something and so he won't do it. She said, "But you know what I'm going to do?" I said, "What, girl?" And she said, "I'm going to go home and if that sucker tries to stop me, I'm going to knock him out." I said, "Get him.

Get her, girl." But but see, they want what he could have robbed that inappropriate secrecy. That's not what it's about. You know, I want to be open and be helpful to people if I can.

And you know, if I can't, I'll leave him alone, you know. But by God, it it it just tremendous rewarding. I I'll tell you just a couple more stories that bedtime stories and then we got to Yeah, we'll be all right.

The uh the uh just fascinating to me about you how when you're free and you can just sort of engage with people and not all this sort of paranoid looking hide and see. Yeah, I I was on a plane one I I was going from Chicago to some Fargo, North Dakota in February. What a thrill.

I thought, God knows good speakers in Brazil or somewhere. I'm going to Fargo, North Dakota. And so I get on the plane and there's a young woman sitting by the window and I had the me middle seat for some reason.

And so I I sat down and we just started to chat a little and ask those same inane questions like where you going Fargo? Where are you going? And uh and I I I asked her why she was going to Fargo.

And she said well she said I I want to relocate and there's a job for a librarian and that's what I do. So I'm going there to interview for a job as a librarian in Fargo. I Well that's good.

I wish you well with that thing. And she said, "Well, where are you going?" And I said, "I'm Fargo." What for? I going to conference.

What time? Aa. And she didn't say anything.

She was very interested in that. And she said, "Geez, that's really great." And then about the time she and I had concluded that I looked up the aisle and we were just about loaded and there was a frantic looking red-haired woman coming down the aisle and I said, "Uh-oh, I bet that's mine. She's coming to me.

I can tell he had that frantic look and uh said sure enough here she came sat down went through the same litany there. Her name was Kit and she was from Providence, Rhode Island. And uh went through the routine both going to Fargo and she and and she I I said now she had a very tragic situation.

Her husband had just died of brain cancer. She was going to to Fargo where her family lived for a grief period. And so it was a very tragic case.

And she said, "Why are you going to Fargo?" And I said, "Uh, I'm going to conference." What kind? Aa, well, you'd have thought I'd hit her with 220. I mean, she said, "Are you in recovery?" I said, "You better believe it, girl.

You better believe it." She said, "Me, too. Seven years." I said, "How about that?" But you know, now we don't mean to be rude, but but sometimes I mean, my god, that was like magnets, you know. And so she and I just started really having a semi closed meeting.

You can only hear it about half the plane. And so we were having a great time and just getting ready to get in and it dawned on me that I was as rude as could be to the girl that I was talking with. And so I turned turned around to her and I said I apologize for that.

I said, "My god, we we got started." And then I got caught up in what we're doing and I just totally ignored you and I apologize for that. She said, "No, no, don't apologize. You everybody's got this." She said, "I didn't tell you the whole story." And she said, "I am going to Fargo and I am going to interview for a job, but it's not because of trying to advance my career." She said, 'I was to be married last Saturday and I went to the church and I was dressed in my gown and and uh went down there and my husband to be didn't show up.

Well, can you imagine the humiliation? It's just mindboggling. And and so she told me about that and she said, "Don't you dare apologize for what you and this lady were talking about because that's what I didn't tell you.

And I'm the reason I'm going to Fargo is not to look for a job. It's to see if there's hope for me." And she said, "After listening to you two, man, is there ever hope for me." And so you see just a simple little thing. Yeah.

We could have been there stoned and shut down and missed a marvelous opportunity to be the helpful somebody do no possible way to do any harm. And and how many times have I deprived myself of that privilege by getting behind this little notion of don't tell anybody, you know, it's not anonymity, you know, not at all. It is either pride or fear that that that'll cause it.

And so I I just have a a really great time in in doing that kind of stuff. And it's there's absolutely no violation. You know, the violation is hiding when there's no reason to.

And so being open and being opportunity I I can't tell you how many times that that has has happened. I'm talking hundreds, not a few. I'm talking hundreds of times that that sort of a thing has happened.

I'll tell you one more then it's a quick one. But the uh I was fly I was flying one time and we're coming into land somewhere and and I I noticed the guy beside me, you know, you know, White Knuckling. I mean, this guy had a death grip on those handles, you know, and and I mean, you could tell that he was not having a good time.

And so he's gripping those things. I thought, do I act like I don't see him, not run the risk of embarrassing him, or do I just go ahead and barge in? I said, I chose the latter.

And I said, "Uh, tough ain't it?" He said, the guy just came up glued. He said, "My god, mister, you don't know how bad it is." He said, "I fly for a living. I'm a salesman.

I have to fly. There's no other way I can get by." And he said, "Every time they take off and land, I am so terrified. I don't know what to do." Now, I I think just coloring the truth a little bit is okay if it's for a spiritual purpose.

And so, so I said to him, you know, I had that problem one time. I didn't tell him it lasted about 10 seconds and was over and never again. I didn't tell him that part.

He didn't have to know the whole story. And he he when I told him that, he said, "My God, what'd you do?" And I said, 'Well, I am I'm in a program and we have a simple little old prayer that just works for me beautifully. And he said, 'What's the prayer?

And so I recited the serenity prayer to him and that's like every cell. He had a pad in his pocket. So he he said, "Wait a minute." He got that pad out.

He said, "Tell me that again." You know, and so he wrote down transcribed the prayer. Now, what's the harm? Hey, yeah.

What's the harm? And whether it'll do any good, who knows? But at least he didn't get some cold, stony dude sitting over there paying no attention.

He got somebody that was attentive and tried to be helpful. There's no loss in that for anybody. And so the the whole thing of what I'm dealing with right now is that thing that anonymity is not about fearful hiding.

It's about protecting against that ego. It's about putting myself up so that I've got to be notorious or stuff like that. But it's not about secrecy.

It it it's it's that thing of being able to not take credit and all this kind of stuff. So it's not intended to be a jail. It's intended just to protect me from myself.

So that's fast as I could go. Yeah. Anybody want to comment or anything before we before we say idios?

It's a bedtime. We have a girl in our group. She never had shared before and she got up.

I guess she thought she was home with her kids or something. She got up in front of the group. They're going to lead the syringe prayer.

She said, "Close your eyes." So everybody closed her eyes and then we started to pray. So whatever it didn't hurt anything. Uh so get good stuff y I hope you like going through this kind of thing because it really is a dimension of recovery that I think is just enormously important.

A lot of time we treat traditions like it's hard work. It isn't. It's about this thing of being able to live in harmony and effectively with the world around us.

That's what it's about. And we don't have to live in fear and in hiding. We really can just re reach out and engage.

So good to see you. You I hope you'll have a good night. I can't wait to get on my absolute absolutely wonderful bed >> and I and I hope you'll have a good night, too.

See you in the morning. Take Thank you. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day. >>