AA Speaker – Bart R. – Duluth, MN – 2013
AA speaker Bart R. from Duluth shares his journey from childhood drinking in Queens to recovery through Big Book study. He discusses the phenomena of craving, hitting bottom, and working the steps with a sponsor.
Bart R. from Queens, New York grew up drinking from fifth grade, cycling through detention homes and shelters as a teenager, and eventually getting sober at 24 after years of failed attempts. In this AA speaker tape, he walks through what it took to finally accept he was alcoholic, how Big Book study changed everything, and why he believes calling himself a “recovered alcoholic” matters—not as false humility, but as hope for newcomers desperate to know recovery is actually possible.
Bart R., a recovered alcoholic from Queens, shares his story of childhood drinking that escalated into legal troubles, detention homes, and multiple failed sobriety attempts before finally getting sober in 1987 at age 24. He explains the phenomena of craving and the mental obsession to drink, how he hit his true bottom when he understood what it meant to be alcoholic, and how working through the Big Book with a sponsor gave him the spiritual solution he needed. Bart emphasizes the importance of calling oneself a “recovered alcoholic,” working all 12 steps, making amends, and becoming part of the “we” in AA through sponsorship and service work.
Episode Summary
Bart R. opens by addressing a misconception about recovery in AA: the phrase “don’t drink and go to meetings” nearly killed him because he couldn’t just not drink. That message felt hopeless. What saved him was understanding he was a recovered alcoholic—not still sick, but well. This distinction matters, especially to newcomers who need to believe recovery is actually possible.
His story is a classic bottom: raised in Queens in a home fractured by his sister’s death, Bart started drinking at eleven to fit in and feel okay. By fourteen, he was the kid getting drunk differently than his friends—waking up in gutters, starting fights, ending up in detention. His mother would cry at the door begging him not to leave. He’d push her aside and go drink. The consequences stacked: shelters in Brooklyn, juvenile jail, treatment centers that told him if he just didn’t drink, he’d be fine. He couldn’t understand why that wasn’t working.
At nineteen, released from an upstate facility after eighteen months, he got a job offer from his father. On his first day of work—day one of trying to do things right—a friend gave him a small bottle of Jack Daniels for his birthday. Just a swig to warm up at the bus stop. That triggered what he calls “the phenomena of craving,” and he drank the whole bottle before walking into work drunk on his first day. He made a complete fool of himself and his father.
For years after, Bart stayed away from AA because God was written all over it and he was an atheist. He married twice, had a daughter he swore would never have a drunk for a father, then threw everything out the window drinking again. On another mad tear, angry and reckless, he ended up at a meeting he’d never been to—the Utopia Young People’s Group. The people there were happy, laughing, dancing in bars without needing to drink. It didn’t make sense until he met a man named Audie and his sponsor. The sponsor was animated, funny, talking about being recovered and living a normal life like anybody else. Bart got furious—that wasn’t true for him. He told Audie to find a new sponsor because he was going to kill this guy.
He didn’t. Instead, the next day at the man’s recovery store, Bart sat for two hours listening to war stories that matched his own exactly. When he asked how the man wasn’t doing that anymore, the sponsor said: “If we follow the first 164 pages of the Big Book as a way of life, you’ll get all those promises and more.” Bart, a fifth-grader education-wise who’d never read a book, pushed back. The sponsor grabbed his shoulder: “We’ll read it together.”
They did. When they got to the Doctor’s Opinion and the phenomena of craving, Bart finally understood why he was different. His body reacted to alcohol differently than other people’s. It wasn’t moral failure—it was medicine. But more crucial was the chapter on the problem centering in the mind: a sick mind can’t fix a sick mind. The obsession to drink was real. He’d pace his carpet saying “I can’t drink today” until it became blow his brains out or take a drink. That terrified him—and it convinced him.
Bart describes hitting his true bottom not in jail or institutions, but in his gut when he finally knew what an alcoholic was. He felt it like the doctor had said “You’ve got one day to live.” He was sick and desperate enough to do whatever came next.
He worked the steps with his sponsor. Step 2 came easy because his sponsor pointed out you don’t have to believe in God—just be willing to believe something might exist. Bart was that desperate. Step 3, he made an agreement: if this works, I’ll bear witness to it. He’s been bearing witness ever since.
Step 4 was about writing down who pisses him off and why, then—the hardest part—where he’s to blame. Bart says it gets clearer every time he writes a resentment inventory: his job is to look at his own spiritual malady, not what others did. He shares a powerful moment from a Big Book workshop years later when a man couldn’t see past the resentment of his best friend being shot in a drive-by right in front of him. Bart prayed, got quiet, then screamed at the man—he doesn’t even know what he said. The man broke down crying: “That’s exactly what my friend would have said to me.” God speaking through people.
Step 5, Bart shared his inventory with his sponsor and became free. He stopped being atheist. His third-step prayer was “God as you understand them. And I don’t.” Eighteen years later, he still doesn’t understand God, but God is everything.
Steps 8 and 9 were about amends. He made a list, went out, and faced people. His first wife’s son appeared at his bank—a 6’4 man he recognized instantly. They hugged. His first wife wanted nothing to do with him, so he stayed out of her life—that was her amend. A woman he’d been abusive to came into the store where he worked. She said he wasn’t the first dirt bag or the last, but: “I never have to wonder if you’re dead or in prison. I never have to wonder again.” That’s what amends does—it sets people free.
Step 10 and 11 became his saving grace. When he gets agitated or doubtful, he pauses and asks God for the right thought. Sometimes his prayer is just: “God.” Everything else is useless talk.
Step 12 moved him from hating AA (1987-1994) to becoming part of the “we.” Less than three months sober, his sponsor took him to Utopia where a massive, angry guy fresh from treatment was raging: “I want to kill all of you MFs.” His sponsor told him: “Go win his confidence.” Bart prayed, got quiet, then went outside to stand by the van. The guy came out too, not wanting to pray either. Bart offered: “How would you like a visitor on Sundays? We could talk about this program. Will you bring me a sandwich?” Every Sunday Bart read the Big Book with this man. He watched him get supervised visits with his son, bring the boy home from foster care, become a working single father, and start helping others.
That’s what the program is about, Bart says. Not college degrees. Just your experience. Sponsorship isn’t about telling people what to do—it’s about sharing what you’ve lived so they can live their own lives with their own Higher Power. The promises came true for him the moment he became willing to make amends. He got free. He got to work. He got to live.
Notable Quotes
We don’t get to sit in first-class seats, but we always have to sit in the back row of the plane.
I finally know what’s wrong with me. I learned why I can’t have just one drink, why my body is different than other people.
Our bottom is when we feel it in the gut. When we admit to our innermost self that we’re alcoholic.
If we follow the first 164 pages as a way of life, you’ll get all of those promises and even more.
The fears fell from me. I was able to make a living and act out normally in society.
You’re ready today if you have learned how to practice the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 traditions. That’s it. Just practice them.
Big Book Study
Sponsorship
Step 12 – Carrying the Message
Hitting Bottom
Topics Covered in This Transcript
- Step 4 – Resentments & Inventory
- Big Book Study
- Sponsorship
- Step 12 – Carrying the Message
- Hitting Bottom
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Full AA Speaker Transcript
This transcript was auto-generated and may contain minor errors. For the best experience, listen to the audio above.
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We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> Good morning. My name is Barton.
I'm a recovered alcoholic >> and I want to thank the committee for the privilege of um being asked to come here and speak. Um it is my least favorite thing to do in AA as well. Um, and I find it I still find it funny when people say, you know, mellow guy or um, and um, you know, we got to see a whole lot of Duth.
Um, I went to the Zen Garden, went to the Harley shop, went to uh, got he drives just like me as well. We he misdirection and you know, I love I drive like that and people complain and I go, "Hey, we get to see more than we normally would." and and so I got to do that to this weekend as well. Um I especially want to thank all the people this morning that, you know, put all the pressure on me and said, you know, don't screw this up or I gave up hunting this morning to to come hear you.
So, you know, I hate doing this and thanks for the pressure. Um, our Allen on speaker said last night that uh, you know, we don't we don't get to sit in in first class seats, but we we always have to sit in the back row of the of the plane. And I went to pre-book my uh, reservations last night and there's no seats left on my plane, so I might be stuck here.
And I don't think that's a bad thing cuz I really I mean I got to see a bald eagle, a porcupine, um, the leaves turning. I What a beautiful place this is. and and the people.
I mean, I was I was here in Superior three years ago and I got to visit with old friends that I met then. I got to meet so many new friends. I mean, you people are just great.
Made me feel really welcomed and comfortable cuz if I didn't, I'd be hiding in a corner somewhere. But you people really were able to help me to socialize and that's important and thank you so much for that. Um so this is this is a conference and I find it important to not just tell my story but share some of the things that are on my mind with AA as well.
And um one of them is a couple of you've heard us speakers say that we're recovered alcoholics and um where I'm living now and and even back in New York where I'm originally from. Can you tell? Um, that's that's shied upon to say that you're recovered.
And I find it I mean I wish we didn't have to and and and people just respected the fact that we we used to be really sick and we're not anymore and that would just say enough, but it doesn't. And a lot of it is because some people have a a sense of false humility to say that we're still sick. And and that causes a lot of damage even in the outside world, you know, the non-alcoholics cuz we're looked down on enough as it is.
and and to go to a um to meet somebody and to explain that we don't drink cuz we're alcoholic or if we have to if if an employee or something finds out that we're alcoholic, not because we're we're telling them, but they just find out and we just say, "Yeah, we're alcoholic." Well, they only have one picture of an alcoholic. But to say that we're recovered alcoholics, that will put a whole another light on it. You know, we're not suffering anymore.
We're not going to rob your money. we're not whatever the things we might have done, we've recovered from that. We're better people today, you know.
We don't suffer from this illness anymore, you know, and that's all it is is an illness. It's not like that we're bad people. We just suffered from an illness that we don't suffer from anymore.
So, I think it's important to put it out there that we have recovered from it. For the newcomer, you know, there's not a whole lot of hope. I've recovered from a lot of illnesses and um recovery is very painful and I don't want to hear that I have to be in recovery for the rest of my life.
I although that there's some truth to that but we do get to a point that we're recovered that we're not waking up in the morning pulling our hair out of our head saying I can't drink today. I can't drink today. You know we don't the problems removed without any effort on our part just because we have a beautiful way of living.
Um and and that's the hope for the newcomer that you don't have to struggle to not drink a day at a time. You know, this problem can be arrested um without suffering. So, I think that's really important.
Um last night, good old Facebook. Um and and you know, I don't believe everything that you read on Facebook, so I actually went to the AA web page and looked. I just find it really sad that that our grape vine that's coming out in October, the big headline on it is don't drink and go to meetings.
That almost killed me. Um I couldn't I was a person who couldn't not drink. And the best that a lot of people would tell me is just don't drink and go to meetings.
And you'll hear in when I get into my story um how suicidal I became because I thought there was other things wrong with me because I couldn't just not drink and show up to a meeting. Um, I wanted to blow my brains out for that. So, that's a horrible message to put out and AA's putting it out in the grapevine and that that that breaks my heart.
Um, all right. I'll probably think of a few things as we go along, but I'll get I'll get into my story. Um, obviously I said my personality is is really shy and you know I I I I felt like I didn't belong in this world from as as little as I can remember.
And um I grew up in an apartment building in in Queens, New York, and I would look out the window and I would see the older guys, you know, standing on the corner and passing a bottle around and and and having a great time. U my upstairs neighbor um he he overdosed from a heroin overdose and and these were my idols. You know, these people that would were drinking and doing drugs and oh there's another issue I wanted to talk about the outside issue.
Um my home group, my sober date is June 12th, 1995. And my home group is Jaywalkers group in Sedona, Arizona. And if you're ever in Sedona, please come visit.
We're or we're a small group um or we're or a big book study group. Um, and we're a small big book study group because it could take us a very long time to get through this book. We read a paragraph at a time.
The reader who reads the paragraph shares on it and then it's open up for discussion until discussion is over and then the next person reads it. Um, so we don't get a whole lot of locals that are coming to our meeting. My wife and I started that meeting when we got there.
And and that's my AA home group. And I have another home group for an outside issue. And I believe for me I need to not half measure either one cuz half measures get me nothing.
So I address both issues separately. Um I think that it's selfish to myself to not address both issues separately. I don't think that I get everything that I need.
I think it's selfish to Alcoholics Anonymous as a whole for me to talk about other issues in an AA meeting because there may be somebody who's there for the first time that doesn't want to hear about other things and has a right not to hear about other things. And I think it's especially selfish to those other fellowships because they don't grow because everybody's just hanging out in AA and and they carry the same message. They all use our big book.
Um, and if and if at least the the fellowships that I go to. Um, and if you don't have any meetings like that, do like I did when I moved to Sedona and my wife, we started one. Um, it's really just that simple.
And our our actually our our CA meeting is growing tremendously because it didn't exist and we're carrying a message and people get to address that. So off the soap box about that. And so I am shy and and and my heroes were the people that were drinking and and I would look out the window and want to be just like them.
And in fifth grade of school, we would go out for lunch. And those guys would be hanging out in behind the handball courts and the teacher would say, "When we go out for lunch, stay on this side of the schoolyard. Don't go over there where those people are.
Stay away from there." And of course, as soon as she would turn her head, I was beline it right for where they were. Um, and I started drinking that young and my school grades started to go down and I was about to get left back in fifth grade. And my parents were moving and they had the first what was going to be of many meetings about BART.
And um the the school decided to promote me and um go to the new school. And that whole summer when we moved, I I rode my bicycle. It wasn't that far back to the old neighborhood and didn't meet any new friends in the new neighborhood and um continued to learn how to drink more.
And and I really it became just an important part of my life. I finally became where I feel okay when I'm drinking. And um so that's what I did that whole summer and went back to um school in the new school.
went to to the new school and it was it was day one and I was scared to death because I didn't know anybody there and my parents had a little um closet the front door with with with alcohol in it and I snuck into the closet and I took a bunch of swigs and got that ease and comfort and and I went off to school and I made it through the day and and I believe that the only reason I made it through the day was because of that alcohol. And so that's what I did every day, you know, and now I became where every day I had to swig down some alcohol to to go to school. And eventually I found kids that were doing the same thing, you know, drinking in school.
And um I drank different, you know, um we after school we would go out and get drunk and you know the kids would make it home and you'd find me you know laying in my own pee at the golf course and you know or starting fights with people I had no business starting fights with and you know I was drinking different and and and at that young age I was already saying to myself, you know, I want to be like everybody else. I just I just want to fit in. and I didn't know how to make friends and I would do really stupid things when I drank and I didn't want to.
I just loved what drinking did for me, but I didn't want to have the consequences that I was already having. And um but they kept coming. And eventually I was asked at school because of the trouble.
There was a woman who came from a um a like a alcohol and drug program, a separate school, and she would come in once a week and I had to go see this woman. And the second threat of my consequences was that if I continued to get in trouble, if I continue if they found liquor in my locker, if I get caught, you know, drinking in the schoolyard or in the bathroom, that I was going to be thrown out of school and put into Project 25 as a full-time student. And now I had already met friends.
And the only part of that that scared me was that I'd be going to a new school and have to meet friends again. And I don't want that to happen. But I didn't want to give up the alcohol either.
So eventually I became a full-time student at Project 25. Um and there I didn't learn anything either and um the drinking started to get worse and the trouble started to get worse and before I knew it I was on what's called pins petition person in need of supervision and and now the courts you know my my parents provided a very nice home you know even when they had separated and and finally divorced um and it was a nice home it was different I mean I had a sister who died very young and my mother became became overloving, overbearing, and my father became cold as ice. And and I assume today that it was because they lost a child.
Maybe it's just their personalities. They weren't alcoholic. Um, but that's the kind of home I was raised in, and it has nothing to do with why I'm alcoholic.
Um, so I became a person of of of need of supervision and the courts were telling me now where I was going to live and I would be put in shelters in Brooklyn, New York and shelters I would sneak out at night and I would go drink night train with the bums on the corner and you know and then sneak back into the shelters and I would get caught and then I would be put into you know a detention home where there was bars and I just read that they had recently closed one of my regular juvenile jail spafford and Um, you know, these are things that I gave up to drink. I gave up my freedom from an early age. I gave up a nice home from my early age just because I wanted to drink.
Um, I loved my mother to death. She would stand at the at the front door 120 lbs soaking wet, my mom. And she would cry hysterically.
Please don't leave this house. I don't want to lose another child. And I would physically pick her up and throw away from the door and go out and get drunk.
And you know, she'd either get a phone call from the police department or I'd come home a bloody mess or it was never good. And if she addressed my drinking, then you know, nightstands would go flying and you know, don't mess with my drinking, don't address it, just leave me alone. Um, so most of my my youth was being put into these detention homes because of my drinking.
Um I went to a place upstate New York, Hawthorne in in um I think it was 1978. And there I was there for 18 months. And while I was there, the the counselors would tell me the same thing that counselors at every place told me that I seem like a nice kid and if I just didn't drink, I would be okay.
And I don't know about you, but when you're told if you just don't drink, you'll be okay. You don't hear another word after that because we believe that it's only when we drink that we're okay. So, for some strange reason, I realized how many birthdays and how many holidays I miss with friends and family because I'm being locked up in these places.
And that maybe the alcohol has something to do with it. So, when I go home this time, I'm not going to um drink, you know, like I was. I didn't I didn't say I wasn't going to drink, but I wasn't going to drink like I was.
No more trouble. So, I came home and I went to um the high school for for the first day. And you know, mind you, all these years it hasn't been regular school, so I wasn't getting much of an education.
And now they're throwing me back into regular high school. And I was called out of the home room and and put into the dean's office day one. And dean sat me down.
He takes out my records and he says, "You know, we're going to be watching you." And if you cause any trouble in this school, you're out. Well, I knew that wasn't going to go over well. So, I just got up and I walked out and and I went home and I talked to my mother and I said, "Look, they're not giving me a chance at this school.
I'm not going to make it. Do you think maybe I can call my father and and go work for him?" you guys could sign me out of school. And she said, "I'll talk to him." And they discussed it and they decided that that would probably be best.
So, um, when I spoke to my dad, he he said he would come sign me out of school and I'd work for him and I, you know, he he was partners in some stores and um that he would put me in a store not too far from the house and and I I was really excited about that. So, I woke up day one for um work and I felt like I had arrived. I felt like I'm going to make my family proud.
I'm a working man. Um life is going to be good. You know, put the past behind me and I never felt better in my life.
And it was it was a cold October morning, the week of my birthday. And I'm standing at the bus stop and really excited about going to work and a a friend of mine comes over and he he said, "Hey, your birthday's this week. I got a present for you." And he gives me a little bottle of Jack Daniels.
And I put it in my coat and I said, "This weekend I'm going to celebrate my birthday." And then I'm a working man and you know, all good things. And it started to get a little cold at the bus stop. So I figured, well, just a little swiggle warm me up.
And uh then I'm on the bus and I'm getting really scared about going into work. So I proceeded to polish off this little bottle of Jack Daniels. And I walked into work for the first day and made a complete fool of myself and of my father.
And that wasn't my intention. My intention was to make my family proud and to do the right thing. Um so I wasn't drinking to get over anything.
I was drinking because of what I learned here, that phenomena of craving. you know, I took just an innocent little swig to get warm and set off that phenomena of craving. And that's the only way that I could drink.
Um, the troubles got a lot worse and they're really not important, but as I got older, the the law troubles and everything proceeded to to also get worse with my age. And a lot of that isn't really important, but um I guess around 1987, I was hanging out at a house. Um it had some pretty bad nicknames.
Um there wasn't a person in in Queens that would walk near this house that was a regular civilian. Um and nothing good went on there. And one of the brothers, there were there were four brothers that owned the house.
And two of them were away in prison and two of them were living home. and one of them wasn't really hanging out with us anymore. And you know, we all own motorcycles and none of them ever left the garage um cuz we were just too busy drinking.
And and Warren all of a sudden was showing up with new friends and he was going into the garage and starting his bike and taking off. And you know, I was pretty close with Warren. And one morning I went up to him and I said, you know, where you been going?
What's going on? And he said, you know, I couldn't I can't live like this like this anymore. And and I've been going to AA.
And I went, "That's nice. Take it easy." Um, you know, AA had been mentioned to me all these years, but, you know, I didn't believe in God and God is written all over. So, I I just totally ignored it.
Um, I I was I got here a complete atheist. Um, so anyway, so I just shrugged it off and every once in a while would talk more to Warren about it. And I had a I had a pretty bad night and one night and and I called Warren.
I said, "I think I want to go to one of these meetings." And he said, "Well, I'll tell you where there is one tonight that, you know, I think you'll feel real comfortable. I'm not going. I got to go to work.
But if you really want to get sober, go to this meeting." So, I wrote down the address and you know, I'm sweating it out all day. Do I really want to do this And eventually I I got in my car and I drove to where the meeting was and I got there really early and I parked the car and it was in a school and I'm just walking around the school scared to death really not sure if I want to do this second doubting it and a guy sees me and he comes over to me and he says are you looking for the AA meeting and I said yes and he said come with me I'm setting it up. So, I just followed him in and uh still, you know, scared to death.
And you see, he starts putting up the shades and putting out pamphlets and setting up chairs and, you know, and I'm just looking down sitting in one of the chairs and he walks over and he hands me this little blue card and he says, "Hey, you want to read this?" And I said, "Yeah, sure." So, now people are starting to walk into the meeting and I can't look anybody in the eye. So, I'm just reading this blue card over and over and over and over. And the meeting starts and he says to read the preamble, we have Bart.
And my heart dropped right out of my toes. I thought he was just giving me something to do. I had no idea you had to read this out loud.
And I spent what felt like the next 5 hours, but it couldn't have been more than 5 minutes planning my escape cuz if this is what you have to do is read stuff out loud, it's not for me. And um I snuck out of the the meeting and I got lost in the school and I couldn't find my way out. I had no idea how he walked in and it was it it was a nightmare.
And I finally heard them talking and I I saw where the meeting was and and I leaned outside on in the hallway and I figured when the meeting's over, I'll just follow them out and I'll go drink myself to death. And um the meeting ended and and they came outside and a bunch of guys surrounded me and started talking to me and said, "Hey, why don't you come out to the diner with us after? You know, we're all going out to the diner and we might go to the movies after." And I had a million things to do, you know, a million excuses why I couldn't go with them and they wouldn't accept one of them.
So, I ended up going to the diner with them and and that was my entrance into Alcoholics Anonymous. And um you know, life started to get good. Uh I'll rewind a little.
While I was hanging out at that house, I had married my first wife, the detox nurse, thinking that was going to keep me sober. That was attempt attempt number one. I left that out.
Um, we had now been divorced and um, I met my second wife and um, her sister was in the program and I met a lot of their friends and um, we got married and we had a daughter and you know I swore this daughter would never have a drunk for a dad and you know I'm going to make a go of life and and I didn't know how to handle all of these good things sober not drinking life can get really good, but this drunk doesn't know how to handle any of those really good things without drinking. So, one by one, I would throw all of those things out the window. Um, and eventually and I went on another mad tear.
Um, and I swore that AA just didn't work. And, and this tear got really bad. And um one night I was in a neighborhood that I really didn't belong in and starting a fight with some people that I had no business starting a fight with.
And you know I was pretty lucky that they didn't cut me up and put me in a dumpster. And um in this rage of anger that I was in, I ended up back in a meeting with you guys. And um it was a meeting that I had never been in and I thought I was in almost all the meetings in Queens.
And um I was never at this meeting. And it was it was called the Utopia Young People's Group. And there were a lot of young people there and they were happy and laughing like we were laughing last night just loving sobriety and loving life and I didn't get it.
And um they were going out to the city, you know, at night after it was we had a Friday night beginners meeting and after the meeting they go into Manhattan and they would go to clubs, you know, where where liquor is served and bands are playing and they're just dancing and having fun and not even noticing that they're in a bar. And the time that I was dry, I couldn't do that, you know. I couldn't walk into a bar and not want to drink, you know.
And if if I walked into a bar and I took somebody with me, we'd have to leave and I would be selfish and say, "I can't stay here. I'm really uncomfortable." And the only thing I could figure out was that they just weren't as alcoholic as I was, and that's why they could do this. But as I got to know them, I realized they were.
And and there was a guy, Audie, who was celebrating his one-year anniversary. And and Audie was was on fire all the time and and talking about God and talking about this program. And and he was celebrating his one-year anniversary.
and his sponsor was speaking for him and his sponsor was absolutely hysterical in the way he was describing what it was like very animated um and and I was laughing and I was having fun and you know and that plays a big part in what we do here and he really had my attention and then he started to talk about being recovered and then he started talking about going where anybody else can go without danger living a normal life I tried that in aa and that ain't true. And he's lying. And I started to get really pissed off and re I mean really angry.
And I looked at Arty and I said, "That's your sponsor speaking, isn't it?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Tonight I think you should find a new one." And and he said, "Why?" And I said, "Cuz I'm going to kill him." And I meant it. And Arty looked at me with a big grin on his face and he said, "I'm sure he would love to talk to you." So, we set up a meeting to meet with him the next day. And and he had he had owned a a recovery store, a store store that sold coins and books and and that kind of stuff.
And and that's where I was to meet him. And and I drove to where the store was the next morning, planning on killing this guy. And he saw me park my car.
He was standing out in front of the store. And I watched him walk in and he went behind the counter cuz he heard I was coming to kill him. and he sat there for about two hours.
We visited. He talked about what it was like. He went into all the real war stories.
He went into talking about how bad he didn't want to drink and he couldn't not drink and and you know the consequences, the things that he gave up. For about two hours, I sat there listening and go, "Yep, that's me. That's me." And eventually I said, "Well, how are you not doing that anymore?" and and and how are you claiming you're recovered and you know that you can do all these things now?
And he just went, I'm glad you finally asked. He had me. And he said, if we follow the first 164 pages as a way of life that are in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous that I would get all of those promises and even more.
And I said, "Well, fifth grade was about as much schooling as I ever did. Um, I never read a book in my life and I hear that book is pretty outdated and boring. I don't think it's going to be my first, but thanks anyway.
And he gra he came around from the counter as I was walking out the door and he grabbed me at the shoulder and he said, "Not so fast. I'll tell you what, we'll read it together. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." And I live by that today, even for myself.
Um, he says, "When you identify the things, we'll talk about them." We're going to get to a point in that book that you're not going to identify to a damn thing in it and you're going to learn how to practice those things for the rest of your life. Fair enough. And when we read that book and we got into the doctor's opinion, you know, you people always told me these wise cracks like just don't pick up the first one, you won't get drunk.
I didn't understand it, you know, but I learned this phenomena of craving. I learned why I can't have just one drink, you know, why my body is different than other people. why the other kids were going home after getting, you know, drunk but not like I got and I couldn't pull that off.
Um, and I felt relieved. I know I I finally know what's wrong with me. Well, he said, "Well, let's keep reading." And we got into the chapters where it talks about the the problem centering in the mind and how a sick mind can't fix a sick mind, the obsession to drink.
I related to that, you know. I mean, I would I would pace my my my carpet out trying to say, you know, I just can't drink today. I just can't drink today.
And eventually it was blow my brains out or just take a drink and get that ease and comfort. So, I understood what the obsession was and it scared the hell out of me. You know, I believe that every alcoholic has to hit the same bottom.
That our bottoms aren't the jails, the institutions, the loss of family, the it was it was discussed last night and it really hit me. Our bottom is when we feel it in the gut. When we admit to our innermost self that we're alcoholic and in order to do that, we need to know what an alcoholic is.
That's when it hit me. when I knew what an alcoholic was, you know, in in when I was in that place for 18 months, I knew in my head that something's got to happen without this drinking. You know, when I came into Alcoholics Anonymous for the first time in 1987, I knew in my head and I knew in my heart that this drinking's got to stop.
But it wasn't enough. When I finally read started to read this book and learned what an alcoholic was, I knew it in my innermost self. I knew it in my gut.
It hit me like the doctor said, "You've got one day to live." You know, I was sick to my stomach and I was willing to do anything. And that was my bottom. And I think that's the bottom that all of us have to hit if we're going to be desperate enough to do the rest of this way of life, which is pretty sick in itself being that this is such a great way of life and we need to and we need to have this kind of convincing to live it.
But that's alcoholism at its best. So we got into we agnostics and you know that the the spiritual malady is is our biggest problem and that we straighten out spiritually. We straighten out mentally and physically that we can't treat the the physical craving that'll never go away.
We can't treat the mental obsession because a sick mind can't sick treat a sick mind. But the mind is fed by the spirit. You know the mind doesn't think on its own.
and you know the speakers all all all weekend and thank you for such a great job. I mean my cup got so filled this weekend by our speakers. Um the spirit has to be healed for us to start thinking straight.
And I had a problem with that cuz I didn't believe in God. But our second step is so beautifully designed in Alcoholics Anonymous that we don't have to believe in a God or a higher power to move on. We just have to be willing to believe.
And I was so desperate that I would do anything. So I became willing to believe that maybe there's something. And we discussed what the third step meant.
And I believe today that that's the most important decision that we can make in our entire life. Um I became willing to bear witness of God's power, God's love, and God's way of life if it worked for me. I didn't believe it would, but I was willing to bear witness if it did work.
And here I am. That's why I'm here bearing witness because it's not what I like to do. But I made that agreement in the third step that if it worked for me, I would do it.
So that's how I get here. Um, so we did that third step. We thought about it well.
I thought about it well. Agreed to do it. We said the third step and we got quiet for a little while and he handed me a pen and a piece of paper and he said, "Write everybody that pisses you off." I was like, "Everybody and everything in every place." And I did that.
It was pretty simple. This is a very simple program. It's not easy like it says, but it is very simple.
And I just wrote all of those things down. And he said, "Well, here's the fun part. Write why." That was easy, mother.
He said, "Just write it real short just so you have an idea." And I wrote it. How does it affect you? And we talked about how it affects me.
And I wrote them down. And then where are you to blame in these? And you know that part of the fourth step and I'm a step worker and I I continue to write a lot of inventories.
And it gets real clear to me more and more as I write them that in the beginning it was really difficult to put aside what others had done and look to see where I'm to blame. But today it's a lot easier. I don't have to point the finger.
I don't have to live in column one and two. All I have to be responsible for is my spiritual malady. If I'm affected because of my self-esteem, where am I to blame in that?
If my pride is affected, where am I to blame in that? if my ambitions where am I to blame in that has nothing to do with column one and column two the book is pretty clear but it's the hardest thing to do put out of our minds completely what they did where am I to blame in living spiritually sick today column three that's where we're to blame um had a amazing you know God speaks through people and I had an amazing experience uh about a month ago I do a big book workshop at a men's sober house in Prescuit every Monday. I've been doing it for a little over three years now.
And um we were up to this this part of the fourth step. And I had made a comment that there is no resentment that we don't have a blame in nothing. And this one guy said, "Well, I disagree with that.
And how the hell do you get over that your best friend was shot by a driveby right in front of you? How do you get over that?" And the only answer that I came up with is I don't know right now, but we'll visit after the meeting because you know that's not something you can just come up with an answer. And um we visited after the meeting.
Actually, I got involved with talking a whole lot of other people and this guy wanted an answer. So he came over to me and he says, "Are we still going to talk about that?" And I said, "Yeah, let's go outside and we'll discuss it." So we we went through the first three columns and we we we we did a fourth column and he got a little bit free, but he wasn't totally free and and we need to be totally free. And I got quiet and I said, "God, help me with this.
Please, this guy's going to die. He has such an unbelievable resentment with this that that he's not going to stay sober if he doesn't get free. God, help me." And all of a sudden, I yelled at the top of my lungs.
And I have no idea what I said, but I just screamed in this guy's face and he started balling like a baby. And he said, "That's exactly what my friend would have said to me." And he got free. God speaks through us.
I don't know what I said, but whatever it was, it had something to do with that. His friend just wanted him to live on. And the guy's still free today.
He finished the rest of his fifth step this week. Um, and went through the rest of the steps and and he's ready to go out and show others. Um, but that's that's the power that happens here.
You know, God works through us. You know, my third step was pretty interesting because, you know, we offer ourselves to God. I know I didn't offer him much, but but he uses whatever whatever we leave him, you know, and I believe that, you know, my whole life I was told, you're never going to be nothing.
You're never going to be nothing. You know, you're a piece of garbage. You're never going to be nothing.
And now look, I'm up on a stage in an anonymous program. It it doesn't get better than that. Best job in the world working for God.
It just doesn't get better than that. Um, so I shared my fifth step with with with the sponsor and um and I got pretty free and you know I spent the hour and in that hour I began to know who I'm not and who God is. I was no longer atheist or agnostic.
I didn't understand God. And by the way, my third step prayer was God as you understand them. And I don't.
That's how I understood God. But I don't. Um 18 years later I still don't really understand God.
But God is everything to me. Um God is everything, everything. And and I just can't understand that.
Um but I see him working all the time. Did the sixth and seventh step prayer, did the eighth step, made that list of everybody I harmed. That was pretty easy.
He just said, "Write everybody you know, and then we'll figure out how you harm them." And that's what I did. Um, and I went out and made all the amends, you know. Um, there were a lot of them that I couldn't find.
Um, and quite a few of them God put into my life. Um, that that first wife that I had, the detox nurse, um, she had a son, this woman was third was 10 years older than me and she had a son that was 10 years younger than me. And I was very abusive to both of them in my drinking.
And um I was online at the bank and 6'4 young man standing in front of me and he turned around. I knew it was him. Got to put him in my life.
And I and I I said, "Stephen, I'd like to talk to you." You know, he knew exactly where I was when we leave the bank. Would you be willing to do that? And we actually got to hug after.
I said, "I really would like to talk to your mom. Here's my phone number." And uh he ended up calling me back and she said just stay out of her life. That's all she wants.
Continue to stay out of her life. So I did and that's how I made that amends. You know, not all of them work out the way we want them, but they work out the way they're supposed to.
Um I believe those those promises are not the ninth promises. I believe they're the eighth and ninth step promises. They say, "Let's now look at steps eight and nine." And then the promises are in there.
and I got free in the eighth step when I was willing to make all of those amends. The fears fell from me. I was able to make a living and and and act out, you know, normally in society.
Um, all of those promises came true for me immediately when I was willing to do that in the eighth step. What I did in the ninth step was got to witness them get free. And I think that's what it's about.
It's not a selfish program. I caused a lot of harm to a lot of people and a lot of people had a lot of hate for me and I got an opportunity to go out and set them free of that hate and that's what I believe the eighth and ninth step that was my experience with it. Um, there was a girl who, you know, when I was locked up on a regular basis would come visit me and then I would come back out and be extremely abusive to her and then I'd get locked up again and she would come home visit me and another one I couldn't find and I was working in a store and she came in as a customer and wasn't ready for it.
Was not ready for this one. And and I went to hide in the back and I prayed. What do I do?
Of course, the answer came. Talk to him. making amends.
So, so I went back outside and, you know, started to talk to her and she had a great answer. She said, "You were the first dirt bag, but you weren't the last. Don't worry about it." But then she said something that really touched my heart.
She said, "But I never have to wonder what happened to Bart. Is he dead? Is he spending the rest of his life in prison?
Cuz every once in a while, I wonder what ever happened to you. I never have to wonder again. Thanks.
And that's what the amends does. It sets them free. The 10th and 11th step have been an incredible journey for me.
Um I had anger issues. The 10th step is the saving grace that by for me that is the best anger management program in the world. Pause when agitated or doubtful.
Ask God for the right thought or direction. Best prayer in the world for me. sometimes is just God.
All the rest is just useless talk. When I bring God into the equation, I get peaceful. And that's the 10th step.
And we screw it up a lot. So, we get to review it at night. How did we screw up?
Cuz we're going to And don't fall into that self-pity and remorse. Just be willing in the morning to ask God, "All right, I screwed up yesterday. Can we help me watch for this throughout the day?
Help me to be useful today. maybe a little more useful than I was yesterday. It's a really simple program.
I was a little less than 3 months sober, I guess. And I just finished um reading How It Works with Eric, my sponsor. And um he never went back to that meeting that he was speaking that night.
And we finished reading this. He said, "I'm going to come over to Utopia with you tonight." I went, "Oh, cool. Great.
you know. So, we got in the cars and and we drove over to Utopia and at that meeting it was um there was a a treatment center, the Creedmore rehab that used to come and they you know in a van and bring guys to the treatment to the meeting. So, it was a a speaker meeting.
Speaker would speak for 20 minutes and then they'd open it up to new just coming back 30 60 90. So, the the speaker finished speaking and he said, "Is there anybody new?" And the first guy to raise his hand was hu this huge guy, shaved head, no teeth, completely tattooed. And all he had to say was, "I want to kill all of you MFs.
I can't stand all. You're all full of shit." Um, you know, the judge gave me a choice of going to jail or to this stupid treatment center and they're making me come to this stupid meeting and just raging. And Eric looked at me and he said, "After the meeting, I want you to go up to that guy and see if you could win his confidence.
I was like, "Are you crazy?" And my reaction to that wasn't because of the way he looked or how angry he was. What the hell do I have to offer that would calm this guy down that would would do anything for him? And he opened up to a vision for you where it says, "You're one man with this book in your hand, and you just tapped into a power greater than yourself." And none of this book had steered me wrong yet.
So I got quiet and said, "God, what the hell do I do with this?" And the thought came to me that when everybody gets in the circle for the prayer, go outside and stand by the van and see what happens. So I went outside and I guess this guy didn't want to say the prayer either, so we were both out there together. Hey, how would you like a visitor on Sundays?
Maybe we could talk about what this program is really about. Will you bring me a sandwich? Yeah, you got it.
And every Sunday I went to visit this guy and we read this book together. And he had a girlfriend that was still living in the streets in Ohio or Pennsylvania, I can't really remember. Um, and a kid in foster care.
And I watched this guy be able to go get supervised visits and eventually bring this son home to New York. And he became a single dad and a member of society and started working with others. That's what this is all about.
You know, these are opportunities that you don't want to miss. You know, from 1987 to 1994, I hated AA. I wasn't part of the Wii.
You people did those things that were on that shade. I didn't. So, I wasn't part of the Wii.
When I became when I started doing this and became part of the Wii, this program be there's just no better. You know, when you're involved, when you make that third step decision, you become very busy. You know, my phone doesn't stop ringing anymore.
You know, and I love talking to people and, you know, it it's unbelievable. It's just, you know, it's it's the language of the heart. You know, so many newcomers that we work with say, "Well, I'm not ready to sponsor.
I'm not ready. What do I have to offer?" Your experience, that's it. Nobody ever gets a college degree in Alcoholics Anonymous.
What are you waiting for? You've lived it. The best sponsor tool ship you got is your experience.
You know, I am not a sponsor that tells you what to do. Everybody that I know in Alcoholics Anonymous knows if you go to Bart and ask him, "What do I do with this situation?" You're going to get the same answer. I don't know.
We quit playing God. Who am I to rob you of making a mistake and learning and getting closer to your own higher power? I'm not here, we're not here to run each other's lives.
We're here to help each other through each other's lives. But you got to live your own life with your own higher power. You know, that's what this program is about.
Just sharing our experience. You're ready today that you have learned how to practice practice the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's it.
Just practice them. None of us ever do this perfectly. I screw up every day.
But I don't have to take um what's it called? Take take blame for screwing up your life because I don't know. I don't know how to run mine.
I can't run yours. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.
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