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Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> All right.

All right, everybody. >> We're back. >> All right, guys and gals.

It is my pleasure, my absolute pleasure to introduce one of my best friends. Um, you know, they use we use this word spearheads and um, you know, spearheads clear the way. You know, we're on the this leading edge of God's ever advancing creation.

And for some of us, we're fortunate enough to have a bunch of people around you that are doing the exact same thing. Um, and I know a lot of mad dogs, but this guy is a top shelf mad dog that I love tremendously. He's he's one of my teachers and there's no no two ways about it.

Uh I find myself probably 10 stepping with this individual probably more than anyone else. And um I I have so much respect for this young man. He he is absolutely a warrior in this life and many past lives.

And as Scott would say, we have fought some battles together in past lives. And with that, I give you my dear friend Carl Peterson. How's everybody doing?

I'm calling. I'm an alcoholic. >> Um, thank you, TK, for asking me to do this.

Um, TK's one of my dear friends. I I don't like doing this kind of stuff. Anyone who knows me, I I don't like speaking all that much.

Um, but for something like this and the guys that were involved in making it um, make it all happen, it's a pretty cool deal. It really is. We've been talking about doing something like this for a long time.

Um, I'm also not the the best with planning and stuff. So, finally someone spearheaded it, you know, and there was a bunch of guys that got together and the committee members and they were the really the guys that made this all happen. Um, those of you who don't know.

Um, but uh I've been to one of these before. It was in Colorado and it was a really really good experience. And um like I said, we a lot of us have heard the tapes of different ones all over the country.

Um so we've there's been a lot of talk about this for a while and I've I've heard it announced every week, twice a week for the last 6 months. So, I've uh I did not forget that this was happening. Um TK is very punctual, those of you don't know him, and and that's a good thing.

Um uh I've been sober since May 19th, 06. Um if you know, you hear a lot of people say that, you know, I had no idea I was going to get sober on that day. And that's that's my experience.

I really had no idea I was going to get sober on that day. I had been trying to get sober and was very unsuccessful and did not have a very good experience with sobriety. And so I saw um I guess in my experience there was really no no really benefit in being sober in my experience cuz uh it was uh it was not very fun every time I got sober.

you would think it would be, you know, cuz for a guy like me, you know, the big thing I always heard is that that kind of alcohol is the problem. Alcohol is the problem, you know, when I would get removed from the problem, you would think that the problem would be gone and it wouldn't. Um, I would be extremely uncomfortable, you know.

Um, and I hated being sober. I really, really did. I hated being sober so much.

It was so uncomfortable. um what I was left with was just unbearable. You know what I mean?

It really was unbearable. Um and uh I think the only time I even got periods of sobriety at time I think God would just grace me with days where um I would just get by. You know what I mean?

Um but eventually it would get so painful I'd go back out again, you know. Um really grateful to speak with Lindsay tonight. That's been that was probably one of the coolest deals for me.

Me and Lindsay, we've known each other longer than anybody that I've been sober with. You know, everyone have watched unfortunately fall at the wayside. And Lindsay is the one person that's still around from when I sobered up, you know, and so that's that's been a great thing to to watch her tonight.

Um, and to get to be here with a lot of people that that I'm actively involved with and people like John who come down, you know, a few times a year and I love seeing him and his friends that he brings and it's just a really cool deal we got this weekend. You know what I mean? It's a really really special thing.

Got my buddy Gino in here from uh Denver, Colorado and really excited to see him. I'll I'll tell you a little bit about him in a sec. Um um and our first meeting um I uh I was born in uh Illinois uh Chicago.

That's where my family's from. Um but I quickly moved to to Denver, Colorado. And I've lived most of my life in Denver.

Um I uh I discovered drugs when I was young and uh and I really liked them. I like drugs and alcohol, you know. Um I really did.

Um, growing up, you know, it was just uh we lived my folks moved from from Illinois to basically a farm in uh in northern Colorado, the northern part um of Denver, which now is very populated. But then, you know, there was all these farms. I mean, really, that's all it was.

And so, I didn't really have any friends around, you know, and so I spent a lot of time by myself, you know, kind of wandering around. And looking back on my experience, I think the only thing that really got me through childhood was my imagination cuz I would literally um I would watch a movie and then I would go reenact it as a kid all by myself, you know, and if I wasn't doing that, I was extremely just discontent. I was super bored.

I was everything annoyed the out of me, you know, from my underwear to my socks to like I just everything annoyed me growing up. And and it's funny because I I never would have thought back on that, but when you start to kind of um look back on those kinds of things, um you start to realize um how uncomfortable it really was, you know. Um but like I said, I had movies and that was really my escape as as a kid, you know.

And I'm talking, you know, um, preschool, elementary, you know, early elementary. Um, and that's really, and I had, uh, Wrestlemania. I had that, too.

And that was probably like the greatest thing that ever happened to me looking back on my experiences was Hulk Hogan. And, uh, you know, and uh, it was and and then I found out it was fake and I never looked back. But uh but when I thought it was real, um funny story, my I actually went to a Wrestlemania event when I was in my mom's stomach.

>> Yeah. I uh my dad my dad my dad and all his buddies used to rent a bus and they would all go together and I'm sure get wasted and they party and and they would run a bus and they go and he dragged my mom when I was like she was like 7 months pregnant. So I got to see my first thing.

It was in my blood, you know. is in my blood, you know. Um but uh but uh but those things, like I said, really was the only relief I had, you know, looking back.

Um until I found um um drugs and alcohol, you know, that was and when I discovered that, that was um an amazing thing for sure, as everyone talks about. Um and it it wasn't the first time I hear people talk about that. I remember the first time I drank, I I um drank too much and I and I blacked out and I and I I remember waking up and I wasn't like, man, I'm going to do this the rest of my life, you know what I mean?

And I don't remember any barn burning experience. I just uh you know, my buddy James at the time, he was quite a bit older and he was doing it and I did it and that was it, you know. Um, but uh I think I was really asleep to the effect that it produced probably until I got sober.

Honestly, I don't think I really connected the dots and how what an impact that it really had on my life, you know? Um or at least until I tried to sober up the first time cuz then all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, fuck." You know, I need some of that. You know what I mean?

Um but uh but yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. um did a lot of different drugs like a lot of people, but but at the end of the road, you know, they they weaned themselves out and I was left with alcohol and cocaine. And those were the two things that really really did it for me, you know.

Um that was the relief that uh that I really really desperately needed, you know, and I found it in those two things. Um and uh and I really enjoyed it, you know, and I really did. Uh, you know, I I never would have thought it would have destroyed everything, you know, cuz like I said, it was it was a lot of fun.

Um, I moved around a lot as a kid and I hated that. And I I had no idea how much I hated that until I uh I think until I started doing inventories and having teachers like Scott that we started to investigate some of that stuff. But I absolutely hated that.

Um, my family, they believed in the idea that you are who you hang out with. That was my dad's big thing, you know. So, I was a very bad actor long before the drugs.

And so, I think my dad and my family that their solution to that was, well, it must be the kids that he's hanging out with. We're going to move, right? And so, we moved from a part of Denver across the way, you know, and I hated it.

I absolutely hated it. Um, I hate meeting the people. I hated it so much.

Um, the uncomfortability of the new guy. You would think after all the times I had to do it, it would get easier. And it never did.

It never got easier for me. Um, I I think I held resentment towards my parents for that for um, as long as I could remember. And I don't even know if I was conscious of it at the time, but I absolutely despised them for doing that, you know, because every time what would happen is I would get this little nook of my friends.

And truth is is when you're a teenager, your friends really are your world. That's it. You know what I mean?

That's that's that's all I had. You know what I mean? And then all of a sudden they would pick up and move.

And I was so young at the time. It wasn't like I could just hop in my ride and you know what I mean? It was like I was 12 years old and I get around on my bike and my skateboard, but you know, I can't, you know, I don't bike 30 miles to go hang out with my buddies, you know what I mean?

And uh and I would be stuck in a new town and a new school always. Um and I absolutely I absolutely hated that. Um, and it happened all the way up until my senior year in high school.

I just one place to the next. And you would think they would learn from their experience. Every time I just recreate the same exact situation all over again, but um, but that was their thing, you know.

Um, my folks moved to to Tucson, Arizona, and uh, I was supposed to go with them and I didn't go. um you know the impact of that I had no idea what an impact that had but it was huge on my mom come to find out my mom literally cried the entire drive that's 800 miles you know what I mean um my mom I was I was young at the time so my mom she wanted her son to live with her I mean I wasn't even adult yet you know she she really wanted me but I was I went on a bender and I I didn't go I didn't show up to the moving date you know um I thought about going you know and I and I and I knew when I was supposed to be there. Um but uh I went on a prodigious vendor you know um and uh unfortunately my experience I don't as this thing progressed less and less people tolerated me you know and that's just the truth and there came a time where no one tolerated me so I moved to to Tucson because my folks would give me a place to live you know and uh and that was looking back on my experience I moved there and I literally knew not a single person in the state of Arizona, you know.

Um, and as much as I didn't want to do that, I really had no other options at the time. I just, you know, I'm a mama's boy, you know. Um, I didn't, trust me, I didn't want to live with my dad.

Um, uh, but, uh, but I did that and, uh, you know, and it wasn't too long and I created the exact same thing that I created everywhere else I'd ever lived. And, uh, cocaine was very readily available in Arizona as it is anywhere else, you know. Um, and I was on top of the world, you know what I mean?

Really looking back on it. I remember I was partying as hard as I ever had. I was having as fun as I've ever had.

Um, and uh, there was a lot of people in my life. I was the new guy. And and it was cool cuz no one really knew my antics, you know what I mean?

No one really knows what they're dealing with until they get to know you kind of thing. And it was all great until they got to know, you know, and it was it was awesome, you know. It really was.

calling the guy from Denver and Cocaine Carl and Yeah. Yeah. You know, and uh and it was awesome, you know, and and it it really was looking back on my experience, that was the pinnacle of it all.

It was um I met a lot of great guys out there, guys that really like to party and it was Tucson is just, if anyone's been there, just a really crazy city, you know. Um just a really, really interesting city. Um but uh but it's funny though because I swore I was on top of the world and uh in a very short period of time I found myself I had literally burned every bridge.

I had destroyed everything and absolutely no one wanted me around. And uh the last straw was uh my my dad walked into my room day and said get you know basically get the hell out of here. You know you're not welcomed here anymore.

and no one else wanted me around. Um, and so I moved to Denver. I moved to Denver, you know, and I never forget it.

I remember being so happy to leave because um, I had really pissed some people off, you know. Um, the the the craving at the time and I didn't realize I had no idea what a craving was, but the craving was getting was getting to the point where I was just doing things that was extremely out of character, you know. Um, and uh, I was taking things that weren't supposed that weren't mine.

And uh, people don't like that, you know. It's just And I was a I was a deadbeat drunk, you know. I I can't work for you know.

And so, you know, I'm no one likes a dead beat, you know. And uh especially if you live with a father who's an extremely hardworking man who uh lives by um you know you are you know you are your word and you keep your word and you're a man of your word and you treat people with respect and you treat other people's stuff with respect and uh and I had become the exact opposite of everything my father ever believed in you know and so it was impossible for me and him to have a relationship because I I just I was the polar opposite. spirit and he's not an alcoholic so he just doesn't get me you know he would I mean literally there was time he'd look at me and you could tell he just wanted what the wrong with you you know cuz he doesn't understand it you know he doesn't get you know yeah he had but he was a part of he got kicked out of college and you know he was he was a party but he wasn't aliy you know and so he didn't understand the effect produced for me you know because I would I would have incidents and one in particular where I did I I was he he kicked me out and I talked him into staying.

I please please you know what I mean? Um and uh I remember uh getting my act together to me meant quit using cocaine and keep drinking. And uh and uh I I did I was I was dead set on on getting my act together.

Um I was dead set and I really didn't go out a whole lot. Um cuz like I said, this was towards the end. Not a lot of people wanted me around.

And uh and I remember want just I'm going to do this. I'm gonna do this. And again, I just torched it to the ground.

And that was when he told me, "Get the hell out of, you know, you got to go." Um and so I did. I moved to to Colorado and uh and I remember thinking I remember on that plane I was all excited, I'm going to start over, you know, and start fresh and it's going to be great, you know. And uh there was a guy that I knew who was there and uh he's like, "I'll pick you up at the airport and you can stay with me for a little while," blah blah blah.

And and I remember going there and I remember the very next day, I wasn't even there 24 hours and I'm walking down the street with my luggage cuz I got kicked out. And I remember just thinking, "What the fuck?" Like, "What am I going to do?" I mean, I hadn't seen anyone in years. I didn't know where, you know, it was just one of those feelings of I'm you know, like And I showed up at my buddy Tim's house and and I he I was very fortunate he let me stay with him, you know, up until he kicked me out.

Yeah. Um but uh you know, the the progression of this thing just took a hold and as as much as I wanted to get it together and that was my whole thing. It was never stop.

It was just get it together. Just get it together. I think a big thing for me is just get a job.

And a big thing for me was make a lot. Just I need to make some money. I need to make some money, you know.

And I would I would get these jobs and I would have every every intention of going um up until the point that I didn't go, you know. Um and it was it was just the obsession was so it was just so bad. I mean I literally there was times where I would be like on my way to look for a job, right?

And then the thought would well get hired. I'll look for a job. You know what I mean?

It was always that like I'd always have these plans. I'd wake up, I'm going to do this, this, and this today. And and I wouldn't do anything.

You know, I just get trapped and and I didn't know, you know, why. I really just thought I was really lazy, you know. Um and I really thought I was a piece of And I mean, that's just the truth.

Um I had no idea. I mean, I hadn't heard of anything. The only exposure I had was there was this meeting and I don't even know looking back.

I've seen a lot of AA before since I've been sober, but I've never seen anything like this. And it technically wasn't AA, but we used to it was at this church. I just I was trying to get my act together and my mom was like, "You should go check out this." And I was like, "No, I'm not.

Well, if you want to live here, you're going to check out this." All right. This is what this is long before. And I remember going and literally we'd fill out these packets and it was just I'm like and the only thing I remember about is this crackhead Dale and uh crackhead Dale couldn't say sober, you know, and uh and I don't know that's all I remember about it other than we used to fill all these pamphlets and it was basically like a this is what happens when I use.

So now I'm not going to use because this is what's happened, you know. And uh I I don't know who stayed sober. I know I didn't, you know, but uh um um but I I I started, you know, you just you start to try to control this thing by various ways, you know, and I remember I was really trying to get off the cocaine.

So, I started I met this guy at that meeting actually and he he he was real big in Oxycottton. I remember, yeah, yeah, that's what I need. I need to mellow out.

I just need to mellow out, you know, and uh this, you know, I'm tired of staying up for 4 days. And I was, yeah, I need to mellow out. I remember doing that for and it just didn't do it for me, you know.

It's just at the end of the day the whole noding out thing and it just it just didn't do it for me, you know. Um because I'm not an opiate addict. I mean really that's just the truth.

Uh um if it's there I I would have done it and I did it, you know, but um I always went back to the cocaine and alcohol always, you know. Um and it's hard as hell to drink when you're done now, you know what I mean? It's just the truth.

Um, but uh but here I am in Denver, Colorado, and I um I had the opportunity to go to treatment. Um the only reason I went is cuz I had nowhere else to live and that's the truth. I had been offered before and I said absolutely not.

Um but this time it was that or I guess the homeless shelter and I'm not an idiot. Um, so I chose this and they gave me a place to stay and um, that that was my first exposure to the 12 steps. It was a treatment center in Westminster, Colorado.

Um, and like a lot of people say, a lot of people come to the fellowship far be far before they're ready. And that was me. I I mean, I remember thinking, "This is ridiculous.

There is no way that I'm doing this the rest of my life." You know what I mean? Um, there is no way. Even though like the alternative was exactly what I've been describing.

It was just like I'll take the other, you know what I mean? Like there's just no way. So I was just milking it and I I was just honestly I was drinking and using every day in treatment, you know?

Um I lived at a halfway house and and I just go by myself and I would drink, you know, and obviously you meet guys in treatment sometimes they want to drink or whatever, but we just that's just what I did the whole time. Literally the entire time. I remember uh I mean it was just it was an interesting situation cuz at the end of your treatment what they do is they bring your family out there and they want you to talk to them in this meeting and to basically admit all the basically it's kind of like a somewhat of a night you know nineta but the problem is is no one's done any so literally even the ones that want to stay sober they haven't done anything to stay sober pretty much they haven't done any step work so they're literally sitting across from their family promising they're not going to do this again.

Inevitably going to do this again, you know what I mean? If they're addict, you know. Um, and that happened.

I And I'll never forget it. And this is what I, you know, this is the illness right here. I sat down and with tears of sincerity.

I apologized to them and all the harm that I had caused them. And the truth was is I drank the night before and I drank the night afterwards. You know what I mean?

But I promise you, I meant every word of it. I looked them straight in the eyes. I'm so sorry for doing this to you.

I'm so sorry. Um and I meant, like I said, I meant every word of it. Um but I drank, you know.

Um I had no idea of of an illness. I I just didn't. It was just uh this this place was pretty much about fellowship and um and it would keep me sober for short periods of times, you know, a couple days, couple weeks, couple months, but I always eventually would go back.

Always, you know. Um, one of the things that happened was uh during uh my second stint in this place um cuz I didn't say sober the whole time. Um but soon afterwards something came over me and I had a just and it really came out of nowhere cuz I was basically living in a halfway house doing what I literally was me and this guy Jonathan Lovato, great guy and uh really bad alcoholic.

It was me and him and this schizophrenic guy who so we lived in this halfway house and he was kind of the head guy, but he was schizophrenic and I think he had some kind of sleep disorder. So he would take these pills and he'd be out for like 12 hours straight. You couldn't take a sledgehammer to his head, you know what I mean?

And he wouldn't wake up. So we would literally do whatever we wanted, you know, while this guy, you know, who thinks, you know, who's sober or whatever, who's the h, you know, head of this halfware house, and little does he know, you know, we're just tearing this place apart when he's asleep, you know what I mean? And uh and so I had no problem with what I was doing.

It was it was honestly, it was probably the best I've been doing in a while. everything seemed to be great and you know um and something happened looking back and I don't know I don't know I just had uh an event happen one night and um it really wasn't um any too different than things I had experienced but it it hit me I was like I'm done I'm done I'm I'm so over this you know what I mean I'm so over this I'm tired of waking up not knowing where I'm at I'm so tired of of hurting people I'm tired I'm just tired you know, um and I quit for a little while. I really did.

And um looking back on that experience, um God graced me with um I didn't how I stayed sober. I didn't do anything, you know what I mean? I didn't stay sober long, but it was the longest I ever had by far.

And um but eventually I went back out, you know, and in that short period of time, I started I started going to school with this automotive uh I decided I wanted to work on cars. And so I started going to school there. um got a job and and literally I had created I had a car and it was literally I created a life for myself you know and I remember thinking I'm so busy I really don't have time for even if I was to drink you know like I don't really have time for all that you know I was just so busy you know and uh and so I drank you know I remember that first night I went and got drunk and went to sleep and thinking that wasn't so bad you know and Uh, the very next day, I remember going back to the same trailer park that I always hung out in and I'm sitting there snorting meth and a couple months later I had burned everything to the ground all over again.

You know, I had destroyed everything and I remember I was sitting there smoking dope out of a light bulb in my apartment and the lights were off and everything was gone. You know what I mean? And I we had been evicted, but I was just kind of riding it out by myself.

And uh and uh and uh and it was here we are again. You know what I mean? I I've lost it all again.

You know what I mean? Anyways, um one of the things that happened during this time is uh this treatment center said basically it's not really working, Carl. um you might want to you might want to try AA.

And this woman, bless her heart, sent me over to uh this place called Primary Purpose Club. And I met that's the first time I met Gina. And uh I remember seeing him in the clubhouse and and I really wanted to stay sober this time.

I really did. And I'll never forget it. And I had just gotten out of the hospital and I still I still had my band on me.

And I'm walking up and he comes out of the clubhouse with five other guys. this guy Mike and some other just great guys. They're all still sober to this day.

And I'm walking up and he had been seeing me around, you know, and uh walking up and and all of a sudden they're like, "You're coming with us." And I'm just like, "Uh, you know what I mean? I I don't talk to anyone. I go I go and I you know what I mean?" And all of a sudden I'm like, "Well, where are we going?" And you're like, "Well, we're just going to go to some, you know, we're going to go find a meeting.

We're going to go drive around a little bit." And well, what time? And next thing I hear is Gio, ah, just shut up and get in the car. And uh it was one of those times that it's just I was so beaten that I was just like, "All right." You know, cuz I promise you if you would have caught me at some of those other times, I would have a off, old man.

And walked in with me, you know what I mean? Um but I just did. And that was my first exposure to to some guys that were sober in a car.

And and I'll never forget that. It was just a powerful experience for me at the time. And I didn't say sober, but uh but Gino ended up sponsoring me for a little while and he really introduced me to the big book for the very first time.

I've been around recovery a lot and he was the first guy that really, you know, t taught me the importance of it, you know, and the impact that could happen if you'll go through this process. Um but I just uh looking back um experientially, not a lot of it really touched my heart, you know what I mean? And it was very much informational cuz that's just what I was used to, you know.

You just uh I don't know. Um not a whole lot of experience really grinding, calling him a lot, bitching a lot because my life's a mess, you know what I mean? Just whining a lot, you know?

Um but uh I mean I would I I would have if I would have told you that, you know, eight years from now me and him would hanging out, you know what I mean? Um in conjurs, Georgia, you know what? you know, but uh but anyways, there I walked away from a me and him were actually supposed to do a fistep.

I got into the fistep and before I finished it one night, my mind told me to take a drink and I did, you know, and I never and I didn't see him for a long time after that. Um but uh so I went back out and I I remember thinking this stuff doesn't work. I'm never going back there.

I never, you know, but um so what I did is I got an apartment by myself in downtown Denver and I um I was tired. No one really wanted me around anyway, so I just got my own place. But looking back, I really wanted to cuz I was so tired of hurting people and I was so tired of people telling me what they agree with and what they don't what I can and can't do, you know?

I just, you know, you know how roommates are. Um, so but uh um so yeah, I did that and uh I loved it, man. It was the best.

But at the end of the day, there came a time where it became so lonely, you know what I mean? It was so lonely. And I remember I took a drink on a Friday night and I came to the following Wednesday and I was just laying there and I was so sick and tired, you know?

Um, and I remember just thinking about, and I don't know if it was an epiphany or what, but I just started thinking about all the people that I had hurt. Um, all the people that loved me very much. And I remember at one point, literally a tear went right down my eyes.

I was sitting against my wall cuz I had nothing. I had no bed. I had nothing in that apartment.

Everything was gone. I uh I was supposed to get all my stuff out of a house that I was moving out of and I was supposed to be in there on a certain day and I took a drink and I didn't make that day and everything was gone, you know. Um every possession I owned was gone, you know, and I just couldn't make it, you know, and I didn't understand why looking back.

But that line in the big book, I remember reading it and it fit more than anything that you know that the craving became paramount to all other interest and that appointment point appointment wasn't met and I had so many experiences of that. That line sealed the craving for me from that day to this day. I never forget it.

I remember thinking that is me. That is me. It's not because I'm lazy.

It's not cuz I'm a piece of you know? It's not cuz I'm a loser. Uh it's not cuz I have bad friends.

You know what I mean? It's because I have a craving beyond my mental control, you know? And even if I want to go and even if my mind tells me to go, I'm not going to go.

I'm not going to go and I'm going to miss that appointment appointment, you know. And uh I have a lot of experience with that line. I really do.

Um but anyways, um I did I came to and I was just so so sick, you know. Um and next thing I know is a lot of people have heard the story. I came to and I was standing in the middle of a restaurant using their phone cuz I had no phone.

Um, and I was standing in the middle of the restaurant using their their free phone. You know, never heard of a restaurant having a free phone, but this one did. And there I am.

And all I remember is asking my sister to come and get me that I'm going to die. That's all that's all I remember. And uh, for whatever reason, she did.

And she has she oh she was so fed up with me. And it was it was divine intervention why she came cuz I had asked her literally the last time I asked her she told me no. And that's uh and uh and uh looking back um I have no idea why she came cuz she had done that so many times for me.

So many times that she bailed me out. Hey, I promise you I'll pay you back. I promise you I won't do it.

You know what I mean? And then I had torched her over and over and over again. Um, so why she did that, I have no and I'll never forget it.

I remember going to her house. I was so sick. Um, I would lose my appetite, you know, um, towards the end of my drinking.

I wouldn't eat at all. And so I would just be so physically weak um, for days and days to recover. Just it would it would take um, days.

It would be hard to walk and things like that. And I never never forget going there. I was sitting on our couch and I was so weak I couldn't move.

and her husband who just hated me. Hated me. And he's, you know, he just got off work, worked a full day, you know, and then he's cutting the grass and and I'm just sitting there just pathetic Carl again, you know, and I remember him thinking just like, Jesus Christ, him again, you know what I mean?

Um, and we didn't have a very good relationship at all because of me. Um, it was absolutely nothing he ever did. Um but uh but I remember just feeling so pathetic, you know, just here I am again, you know.

Um it didn't feel any different than any other time I got sober. I had no idea I was going to stay sober, you know. Um but I did I don't know.

It was uh very uncomfortable at first because I I didn't really do anything. I ended up here in Atlanta, Georgia. I didn't know anyone again, you know.

Um and uh I lived with this guy. He's actually dead now. Um he just died not too long ago of an overdose.

Really great guy. He let me stay with him. And um he um luckily for him, I would just hang out with him.

I don't know. I didn't know anyone. I would just kind of run with that guy.

He had no desire to stay sober. Looking back, I don't know how I stayed sober, you know. Um but uh but I really wanted to stay sober this time.

Like, you know, and I had it. I wanted to before. Um, but I really really desperately wanted to change and I and uh something happened.

I was sober and it was so painful, you know, and it was I just started coming apart, you know, cuz what would happen for me every time I get sober is there would be that that that week or two of just recovering, you know what I mean? And just getting back to normal and eating and, you know what I mean? And then it would get a little bit better for me.

I think it was just the relief, you know what I mean, of not being in so much physical pain that that I would I would start to feel better. And usually what happens, I start getting cocky and I start kind of mocking these sober guys and and that's really what started to happen to me, you know, and uh here I am sober and this was probably the great one of the most pivotal moments of my sobriety looking back on it is one of the counselors at this place that I ended up in was she did not like me. Um, I think she probably cared about me.

Um, but her way of showing love to me was by screaming at me. She really was. You piece of You know, and u and looking back, you know, a lot of people would say, Jesus, you know, what a you know, that's kind of harsh, you know, but I was a smartass who couldn't stay sober, you know what I mean?

and she put her bullseye on me and she took every opportunity to call me out on anything. You know, I'll never forget I was sitting there and I remember looking her straight in the eye and gave her that mad dog look and I just said, "You know what? I don't like you." And you know, thinking she she looked me dead in the eye and she's like, "That's your Deal with it." And I mean, uh, yeah, she was uh she ended up not being alcoholic.

She's not sober, but looking back, she was the greatest that she literally pulled every ounce of anger and she Oh my god. I I would think about murdering her at night. Literally.

And uh and I say that cuz she did. She pushed me to the brink of insanity sober. You know what I mean?

And it wasn't her, but she just had this ability to pull all this stuff out of me. so much anger and um she did and I never forget I remember I hit a point one night and I was so I literally thought about I was like I'm going to go get a bottle and I'm going to go crawl into the woods and I hope the spiders kill me. You know what I mean?

I hope I just die. Um I was I knew I mean I didn't know where I was. I didn't know anything.

I had no car and it's just like here I am you know it's just a horrible horrible situation looking back. Um, but it was the greatest thing ever, you know. Um, anyways, um, it was around that time I I uh that, like I said, that willingness came.

It just did. That pain ignited a willingness that I had never had before. I became willing to do anything.

And I didn't care what it was. I didn't care if it didn't make sense to me, which was a huge thing. I wouldn't do nothing that didn't make sense to me and that didn't seem like that that would do something.

I'm I'm going to tell you right now, logically none of this makes sense. It is one of the biggest barriers that I had to get over was this idea that make that logically working the 12 steps works. It just doesn't make sense.

It it it does make sense on paper in my experience. Um but experientially it makes perfect sense now, you know. Um but I did I became willing to do absolutely anything looking back.

Um and it didn't matter what it was. Um, and I did I uh I got re reconnected with Gino and we started doing some work and um first I met this guy this guy Danny and Danny did some work with me over the phone um and really kind of took me through the big book again and Gino already had. So I really kind of knew um what was going to be required on some level like I just knew I needed that right and so I started doing that and uh just I started having a really powerful experience pretty early on.

And I don't know if it was all that time built up of in and out in and out that everything just kind of hit me at once, but I really started to have a really powerful experience um with the steps and uh with sponsorship and all that stuff. And um since that day to this day, I've really just, you know, I've been doing it ever since. And I really can't explain it why cuz I can't tell you how many times I've, you know, I just can't stand this stuff sometimes, you know, and um it gets so uncomfortable it makes you want to scream at times, you know what I mean?

Um, but something kind of keeps moving you and you don't realize at the time, but God just moves you. He just moves you along this process. Um, and I think the the thing that kind of solidifies all that is this commitment for me is this commitment to continue to do this work, you know.

Um, whether I like it or not, or whether I, you know, feel like it or not, just to continue to do it, you know, and, uh, yeah, I mean, it's it's been an amazing journey for me, you know. It is. Um, I can say today, whether it's financially, whether it's my career, whether it's my physical health, um, um, I'm definitely more involved in all those areas than ever before, you know, there's no doubt about that.

Um, the evolution at times feels like it's pretty rapid with some areas and then other times it's creepily slow, you know. Um, but it is it's been an amazing journey, you know. Um, my home group, for those that don't know, is the Spearheads group of Cocaine Anonymous.

Um, we're a very small group of people that believe in going back through the work over and over. Um, I don't know where some of you are from, but in Atlanta it's not a popular thing. Um, so we're a nice tightknit of people.

Um, no, we we started a few years ago. We literally sat in Ter's basement and we all got together and we wanted to create something new. And so 14 of us created something new, you know, and we we literally voted on everything from the where were we going to go AA or CA where we what time, what place, where format, everything.

Everything was voted on, you know, and it's been an amazing journey and it's it's really um I think it's uh in my experience, I think we're at a really good spot right now. I don't I think what happens when you're a new group, you get excited and everyone kind of gets interested and oh man, that seems like a great idea. Go through the steps, you know, but the actual practice of that is a completely different story, you know.

So we at one point we got a bunch of people members and all of a sudden we went from, you know, 15 to 20 members to all of a sudden there was 50 60 people, you know, and with comes that comes a lot of personalities and all that politics crap. Um, and luckily we've weaned a lot of that. I guess the the process of evolution has weaned all that stuff out and we've gotten to a spot where um, we're a tight-knit group of people who believe in going back to the steps, you know, and we're all on the same page.

So, we get along with fine and group conscience runs easy. Um, because uh, cuz we're all on the same page, you know, um, and the people that are there are supposed to be there, you know, and it's uh, it's been an amazing journey, you know. It really has.

Um, I can honestly say, you know, the friendships that you'll get as a result of doing the work are so powerful. They're hard to hard to describe. You know what I mean?

Um, when I met Scott two years ago, the love of my life came into my room one day and said that I I'm out of here, you know, and I became so homicidal and suicidal at the time that I didn't know what to do, you know, and and I met Scott and uh he was the only person in the AA that that understood what I was going through. I knew one other guy, but he didn't have a solution for it. So, so we just planned on how we were going to kill her, you know.

But, uh, but he had a he he he talked my language, you know, and and I never it was the it was a saving grace for me because I thought I was so nuts, you know, cuz people I remember I had a sponsor at the time, guy named Dunwoody, and I remember he would look at me like three heads, you know. I thought I'm a killer. I'm a killer.

And uh and he or I'm going to kill myself. And he wa I mean he like he would be like he like dude it's just a girl you know and uh and he didn't get he didn't understand me you know and uh but Scott did you know and that's what I mean by that that that identification and going through the work with him and and evolving with I mean that was what 6 years ago I mean I would have never guessed that our you he would still be my teacher and we have continued to go through the work over over and over and over together. And that's what I mean by that.

It's it's one thing to have a sponsor and you guys chitchat and and that's all great. Um and I have a lot of friends that I chitchat with, but to actually sit down and go through the work with someone over and over. Um it's a powerful experience, you know, and you'll get to know not only him, you get to know yourself on a level that you've never known.

Um, I can honestly say the most beneficial thing about a really good sponsor is a sponsor that's willing to challenge your belief systems. And I mean really challenge them, you know what I mean? Um, I I never had that, you know, until I met him.

Um, I had never had someone that was willing to investigate that with me, you know, and really spend the time to discover why is it that I believe this? Where does that come from? you know, why do you continue to to act like that?

Why do you continue to think like where does that come from? Um, let's get down to the root, you know, of where that comes from. Um, and that's that's been probably the greatest journey of all really is the smashing of the belief systems over and over and over.

Um, and what you're left with in my experience is conscious contact, right? The belief systems absolutely stand in what cement that it's just impossible, you know? I had no idea I had a belief system about what a man really is.

And that that belief system almost killed me. It's almost killed me many times in sobriety. I had no idea I had that.

I had no idea that that was literally dictating how I interact with people, how I talk, how I, you know what I mean? How I respond to situations, how I carry myself. I had no idea that that was driving everything.

You know what I mean? Women, AA, all of it. You know what I mean?

Um, the discovery of that was the greatest thing ever. And it really was and really getting down to where that stuff comes from. And um so I could get free of it ultimately.

I mean, I think that's what this whole deal is about is freedom, you know, so that we can be free and uh be free together, you know, and I'm so glad to be around people that do the work because um it's an enjoyable thing sharing it with people. You know what I mean? It really is.

I can I don't know. The career has been great. A lot of things have been great.

I don't know if it gets much better than the relationships, you know what I mean? The the the chitchatting, the hanging out before the meeting, after the meeting, that connection that we have at our home group and in other meetings that I've been a part of, you know, it doesn't get any better than that. And uh I'm so grateful that I've been blessed with the opportunity, the teachers that have guided me along this path, you know, and the people that have let me guide them, you know, it's been an amazing journey.

So, it's all I got. Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message.

Until next time, have a great day.