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Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> >> Welcome to the Hermosa Beach Group's 12 suggestion meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Now, will you join me in welcoming our speaker tonight, DeAndre? Good evening. My name's DeAndre, an alcoholic.

Grateful to be sober. Uh First thing I noticed when I walked in the room is there was two bottles here to drink from, and now there's only one, you know. Real alcoholic.

Oh god, it's really good to be sober. Uh normally I'm next door. I'm the secretary of the meeting next door while this meeting is taking place.

And for the last several weeks, I've heard a lot of laughter from coming from over here, and it uh it's kind of interesting to be over here right now. Uh my sobriety date is May the 29th, 1991. Uh which means uh I just celebrated uh 15 years of sobriety a couple of weeks ago, and uh doing pretty good.

Life's good. Uh you're looking at the problem, so there's no sense of talking about them. Uh, and this meeting is about sponsorship, which is not a problem.

Uh, in this solution-oriented meeting for me uh reminds me of my first experience with this topic. Uh, of course, with my original sponsor, his name is Dennis Lee. And I met him at a little small group in Lancaster, California, called the Open Door.

And that is where I went after I left the psych rehabilitation. And uh uh leaving uh rehab and and and and re- re- establishing myself in the community after about 11 months of sobriety, uh I had already started sponsorship in the rehab. I uh was working with guys uh at night uh in the cafeteria before bed, going over the fundamentals of recovery.

Uh although I had completed several step packets in the rehab, I had not officially gone through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. So, I really after leaving that rehab, I was really aware of the fact that I was going to have to be connected to somebody other than the people that I had already been connected to before I got sober in order to stay here. And I guess that's kind of like the running theme, if you will, in this program for sponsorship, it's about being connected.

You know, and with that connection comes accountability. You know, it's hard to wing it when you have a sponsor that's involved in it. And uh basically, what happened for me is at a noon meeting at the Open Door one afternoon, I had been enjoying my sobriety for several months, and I wound up sitting through that meeting and hearing this guy share.

And much uh to my amazement and and being so miserable, he made me laugh. Uh there was some laughter. He made a comment about the floors.

He was talking about how the group was a high entry-level group, and it really, you know, made me laugh. I was very miserable that day. I uh had not gone through the steps, like I said earlier, and I went up to that gentleman after that meeting and spoke with him, and he told me uh who he was, and I talked to him about my experience with AA, that I'd already worked my step packets in rehab.

So, I pretty much was looking around for a sponsor to kind of help me, you know, uh I guess feel more part of the group, but I really didn't need anybody to really help me with the first three steps, because I had already basically kind of perused them. And he told me uh that it sounded like I knew what I was talking about, but he wanted to tell me what he knew about the first three steps. And that kind of screwed me up a little bit.

Cuz I didn't know what he knew about the first three steps. And I think uh my my sponsor was an insurance salesman for 20 years. Uh so, he read two sentences into my basically.

And uh and he knew that, you know, the dry drunk cometh. And uh and so, we He to forge this relationship strictly around the steps. And through doing that with him over a period of time, that relationship uh went through the steps and started being connected with me in all my affairs.

In other words, he was allowed to assist me in everything that I brought to him. And if he did not have the knowledge, the wisdom, or the experience in those areas, then he would get back to me after talking to some of his friends. And uh through that uh relationship, what's happened for me is that I've been sober since my very first meeting.

I've uh so far. Uh and and I think that when I started being honest with him about those secrets and the money and and and just how much prayer I was really doing, the meditation and the writing, and really getting out of my comfort zone as an alcoholic. You know, one of the really sad things about my disease is that it allows me to feel good while I'm killing myself.

You know, and this euphoric recall that I often seek while I'm drinking has a way of metaphorically showing up in my sobriety. And if I don't have someone in my life cross-examining my perception of reality, I'm a dead man talking. And I'm usually on the move.

Uh ducking and dodging and hiding and running from the things that I don't want you to see or deal with. Cuz I'm not dealing with them, so why should you? So uh basically after forging this relationship and realizing after about 5 years sobriety working with this man that he had character defects.

I also realized that he was an alcoholic. And uh the most harmful thing that I found out about this guy is he needed AA, too. And once I recognized that I had a problem with this guy more than the fact that he knew all my secrets.

And so I decided based on my own uh insanity that it was just one day he made me really angry. I went and I talked to him. I said, "I heard the speaker he said that he after 5 years of sobriety that his head came out of his ass." And I said, "Dennis, I have 5 years of sobriety.

You've been telling me that my head is up my ass. I'm 5 years sober now and now my head is out, right?" And he says, "Yeah, your head is out, but your mouth is hanging out." And I did not think that that was very funny. So I went to look for a new sponsor.

Just because of that. Uh that was the reason why I got mad at him. And I I searched for about a year.

I went to the rafters. I I really searched far, too. I went straight to the rafters, you know, and uh started talking to a guy named Jim Buckley.

And uh worked with him for a couple of months, but it wasn't the same. Uh and I knew it wasn't. And I knew that uh I had lied to myself.

And I don't think it was because I had this self-discovery. I think that Jim Buckley was so humble in his connection to AA that it was okay for him to let me know where I really needed to go. And I think that is so important around here because I've done freelance sponsorship from years 6 through 9 where I didn't care if I was your sponsor.

I was going to sponsor you. And you could come up to me and ask me about a job or an application or a prayer or a page or anything and I automatically assumed that you needed my sponsorship. You know, and I began to advise you on everything, not just what you asked me about and that that sort of got kind of crazy, you know, because people were coming to me, these other people's cuz sometimes I think in AA we're sort of looking for that cosigner.

When we're all done talking, we need I personally uh when I'm living in self-will and I'm not moving forward spiritually, I need someone to cosign that. You know, and I think that's what I was doing and you know, Jim wasn't having it, you know, and he just told me, man, uh you need to talk to your sponsor because the conversations would always go back to that. You know, that ass, you know, he said that.

And uh Jim was telling me that if I didn't deal with that resentment that basically nothing nothing that I thought he had for me was going to be there for me if I didn't get rid of that dishonesty and that fear. And uh and I and I eventually went back uh to Dennison and asked for more help. And uh we worked with each other for several more years and then a job opportunity uh granted me the luxury of moving out of that area.

Now I still use him as a spiritual advisor, but my new sponsor now for the past 3 to 4 years has been Jimmy Moss. Uh, and he's been sober for 22 years. And Jimmy uh has done for me what I can't do for myself.

And I believe that my higher power uses he and others in AA to keep me from you know, uh sponsoring myself. And I was taught in early sobriety that the ism of alcoholism is I sponsor myself. Ism.

You know, and I know that today uh I am the worst sponsor in the world for me. You know, I do not have what it takes to love me through the steps. Uh, because I will hide from steps 4 through 9 until hell freezes over.

And with uh active sponsor in my life you can I can't escape those steps. Those I call them the stomach steps. So where I'm at today in getting through these relationships with these people and being a little bit more transparent than what I used to be uh and there's a long period of reconstruction ahead I'm sure.

But getting to where I am now in my sobriety uh I'm more involved with sponsoring people. Uh, I sponsor men and women. Uh I don't believe in men sticking with the men and women sticking with the women because it doesn't say that in the book.

In fact, it's italicized over Dr. Bob's story that he worked with about 5,000 men and women. And I believe that if I have something blocking me from being able to assist any alcoholic that I need to thoroughly have that inventoried and possibly taken away by the grace of God.

That I ought to be able to sponsor uh gay gorilla training prostitute from Transylvania based on where I come from and where I've been in my life which has been very short by the way. I got here pretty young. And the hell and the torment and the insanity of uh 15 years ago should not be blotted out but my little feeble attempt to segregate what God has allowed me to be a part of.

And I believe that's AA. Uh one of the things that I've also learned from sponsorship is that when a newcomer is ready, there's not a damn thing you can do wrong. But when a newcomer is not ready, there's not a damn thing you can do right.

They're not going to buy this crap. And uh I can stand up here and tell you that being a sponsor of a lot of people makes me feel good. It makes me feel important.

It makes me feel that people are really listening to me. But the basic connection that I have with really wanting to be an effective sponsor is because of God. It is not because of my own self-will or my desires.

Because getting those phone calls and listening to those inventories and hearing someone's perspective on a lot of stuff with less than 30 ways of sobriety is not very enlightening on certain nights, evenings, and holidays. Okay? But I believe that he did that for me.

He did that for me. I called him from work, home, and play. And he always had something about AA to say.

And I believe that it's my responsibility, ethically and spiritually, to try, as best as I can, to do that for other people. So, if you're a newcomer, and you don't have a sponsor, I don't really believe that you've made a full connection yet. Furthermore, if you have been here for a while, and you are not sponsoring anyone, I believe that you better start looking at some stuff, whatever that may be.

I don't really know. Uh and I'm feeling really enlightened uh tonight. I uh spent some time over at Jay's house this evening.

I uh I I was thinking about having a free meal at Bill and Ken's house, but I think I've used up my meal ticket over there. So, I went over I went over to Jay's today, and we ate and and talked and uh and I and I love you, man. I mean, I really, you know, I can talk to you for 15 minutes, and it reaffirms 15 years of sobriety.

It's amazing. You know things about me, as well as certain people in this room, that my own mother and brother don't even know. And that's what connecting myself to something real uh is all about.

You know, getting out of the problem, me, and into the solution, which is you. And uh Sponsorship, also, real quick, and I'll try to summarize all this and be quiet. I love the question part of the format.

Kind of reminds you of being at the podium at the White House, you know, it's You know, I too many of us at the White House, you know. Those who isolate in that, but uh the the final thing I'm coming around the corner with this is that, you know, Bill we went we did something very spiritual with this Hermosa group uh the men's stag, the guys. Bill and Karen, they they took us all out on a field trip basically.

We had a little buddy system and we all went down to see this little play in Hollywood uh several months ago. And uh boy, I really loved that. That That was just something that I hope I never get drunk enough to forget.

Uh we went down there and they just sort of they they they they showed us basically in a brief synopsis on what actually took place historically and and and realistically with these people that we all come from. We all come from that. And uh what I saw, my little weird perception of of of the play, was that this stuff really works.

It works all the time. It works real slow. And uh and it's here.

It's kind of like being at a smorgasbord and seeing all the food out cuz I like to eat and you you see all you know there's fried chicken and the food, you know, and it's a big and and and you see people just aimlessly walking around the table starving themselves to death not taking in any of this just plethora of of nourishment for not only not drinking but being a real asset to the community. And uh and just being at that play that night and and watching all the guys that we interact with in that Monday night meeting and whatnot and some of the women from the Tuesday night group that were there, the husbands and wives and all that, it just made me feel that not only was I being sponsored and I sponsored the people, but it just made me feel like I was in the middle of AA. You know, instead of hanging out on the fringes, judging people that are doing all the work.

I felt like I was in the middle of Alcoholics Anonymous that night. And uh in the play, however, one of the the unique things that I I I saw, too, that they act cuz I try to I've done a little theater myself, little community theater when I was growing up. I used to be a part of this uh this uh community theater group in Watts, where I grew up.

And uh it was the Westminster group. It was kind of like the Little Rascals on crack, basically. And we would you know, we would we would we would we would we would we would do the we would do these little plays and stuff.

And I I remember just seeing the the the way these actors and stuff were just sort of the the but the guy who impressed me the most was the guy who played Dr. Bob. I mean, the actor who played that character in that play.

He just cuz I've read some other books and whatnot and not to the extent of Jay. Jay has a whole uh you have to develop your own relationship with him. I know the secret.

But these kind of stuff over there and but I remember reading about Dr. Bob and I just I just love the fact that Dr. Bob was just like, you know what?

If you don't want this thing, that's really okay. But we got to have it. The the the the men and women that are convinced, we got to have it.

But if you don't want this thing, that's really okay. And I got that from the character, and I got that out of the play, and I guess that's what I what I kind of end with is you know, a lot of times J and I were talking about some of the nicknames that they give people in AA that are really involved with AA. And not just sitting around agreeing with AA and say and staying sober based on that agreement that you agree with AA, but you're sober.

And congratula- But you're not doing AA. And one of the nicknames that I've been given in the last year or so is cult leader. I am the I I am the leader of the cult.

And they said I go around and we take blood. And we are evil and we're bad and we want people to read the book and work the steps and pay back the money and do the prayers. And I said that's it.

That's the extent of our cult. And and I was and I was and it's just you know, it's amazing. It reminds me of like the bar like the barroom stuff.

You know, uh seeking lower compared to coming in an AA to seek a lower compared you know, looking for a drinking buddy. Looking for someone that's going to allow me to sit to stay exactly the way I am. You know, and I just don't need that in my life right now.

It's a very dangerous place for me to be. I I need enlightenment. I need change.

I need the grace of God. And not only do I need sponsorship, but I need to really understand that without AA, there's nothing. For me, there's not AA and then this.

If I'm not allowed to take this way of life into any affair that I'm about to walk into, then I don't need to be there. Because these principles are universal, they're not circumstantial. And and and Alcoholics Anonymous has not only allowed me to make sense half the time, but it gives me an opportunity to make sense to other people as well.

People that say, "Yeah, okay, I'll do it." And my sponsor taught me that if it's not unethical, immoral, or illegal, get it done. Or prepare yourself for another run. You know, and that's how I was trained in that relationship.

So, anyway, uh I think the my final point that I'd like to make about this this topic is that a lot of times I I feel as though that people think that there's like a a a choice in the matter. And and those are the people who don't usually sponsor. They believe that they can do this other stuff, and that sponsorship is just something that the real smart people like Jay or Bill, you know, that that that somehow if I just go ahead and do this kind of a commitment over here, that it kind of weighs out as far as uh trying to love somebody through these principles.

And I I don't want to get into a debate or anything about that. But all I know for me is that in the in in the chapter working with others, it says that when all these other things fail, which gives me the impression that they will come to a failure. Not in the sense that it won't be a part of AA, but that when it comes to me not drinking, that something's going to have to happen between me and another alcoholic in order to get to that higher power that could keep us both sober.

And if I don't have room for that in me spiritually uh in most people's case physically cuz I know we're all of us are so busy you know, doing all this stuff. But if I don't have room for that I think what it does it just it just makes my sobriety a little cuz I've gone without sponsoring people before it just makes my sobriety feel a little shallow. Uh I'm sober.

I'm going to meetings. I'm raising my hand and I'm sharing. I'm looking for some sort of a spiritual awakening as a result of my sharing.

Really I am. I'm doing all this stuff but with the absence of trying to get somebody to help themselves with their family, the community, getting through the work when I don't do that for some reason it just feels a little empty for me. Now everybody may not get that.

You know, I I don't I can't speak for everybody. I just know for me that I don't I don't feel real good when I'm not trying to fish out a newcomer and help them. I just feel kind of weird.

So it feels like, you know my head starts making room for doubt about other things. When when I'm not sponsoring and helping as best as I can. So anyway I'm grateful to be sober.

I'm grateful that this group is here and I'm grateful that Alcoholics Anonymous gives us an opportunity to help each other for real. There was a topic the other night at a meeting where the topic was service and everybody was sharing about it and I didn't get called on so I'm making up for that here. He Well, they said that everybody would you know, everybody talked about service and for me it's like when a normal person is not of service, it really probably doesn't kind of matter the way it matters for us.

If we don't do it, we wind up drinking and killing ourselves. If they don't do it, they just sort of feel their way around other things and do other stuff, and that's really okay. I mean, I don't want to be normal.

Uh but it's just that this is something that really really really makes a big difference if you plan on being around here for a day or so. And that's all I want TO SAY. THANKS.

>> BUT I JUST HAVE A QUESTION. UM I, as a sober woman, with my new sobriety, I could not identify with my own gender. And I know that I am not Is that not uncommon?

A lot of us Okay. And I identify with our own gender. And And I wasn't able to make that happen until I got a woman's sponsor.

>> Mhm. >> And I thought I'm just wondering, like, how do you Like, do you think that that Like, if you're sponsoring women, >> Mhm. >> and they're You know, you're the daddy, you're the brother, you're the boyfriend, you're the You're all those things, and you still Cuz I mean, I would always hook up with a man.

>> Mhm. >> And that's my That's the way I was. I always was.

I always hooked up with a guy, and I didn't really have, you know, girlfriends. >> Mhm. >> But I'm fine, cuz I got a guy.

>> Right. >> And I'm fine. And if you're sponsoring women, don't you feel that that might be denying them, or is it just transitional, or Or is it just Well, you're asking a question.

>> The question is how in the hell are you sponsoring women? Is that Is that Is that Well, that was it. Is that Is that basically Cuz Steve told me Is that basically Cuz Steve told me to repeat the question and Okay.

for regular night. >> But we were allowing them to hide out. >> Okay.

I'm allowing the women to hide out. No. >> We're allowing them to behave.

And it's in my mind that's a home. But I want it in my life. >> Okay.

All right. Well, the way that I look at it is uh God knows where they're hiding. Uh most of them under certain circumstances.

Uh and I believe that we're doing pretty good. I I don't really know how to answer the question except to say that uh more will be revealed. You know, maybe in a year or so or now maybe I'll say, "You know what?

That night that Karen called me on that, she was right. You guys go find women now." You know, or whatever. But But something's got to happen for me in order to go, "No." when it comes to anything in AA.

And I One last point on the question is I was listening to uh Bill C tape number three, I think it was. Three or four. And he made reference to people coming up to him after the meeting with, you know, 9, 10 plus years of sobriety saying, "I don't have what you're talking about.

Will you please help me?" And I don't recall if it were it would if it was men or women or whatever. But saying yes is more finding out who you're sleeping with uh in regards to AA and that's that's basically what I got to say about that. What about you, sir?

Hey, Rick. >> Hey, Rick. You said it was something like I think it was something about stomach trouble, parts of the step.

Forget anything about the steps. >> The stomach 4 through 9, yeah. The stomach steps?

Well, I mean the first Question is the stomach steps. Talk a little bit about that 4 through 9. What do I mean by that?

I don't know. It's like the first three steps can be done on LSD. I mean you think about another form of alcohol, you just sit there and oh, I have no power.

There is a God, you know. Please give me more. But when it comes down to the causes and the conditions of what make me thirsty, you know, it really bothers me because that's where you're going to really show me that I have no power, that this stuff has been kicking my ass for a fairly well for a long time.

And and a long time could mean 4 or 5 years on a guy or gal that's like 15 or 16 years old. It doesn't matter. I mean, the way steps 4 through 9 shake me, uh keep me really uncomfortable about not moving forward.

And if I don't get with somebody and get rid of that stuff, I'm going to block out the first three steps. So, when I when I call them the stomach steps, it's like uh there was a guy at Jay's house uh before I got there, Dave. He and he was saying that they run this little group where it's like God is here and then we have all this stuff right here that's blocking us from getting to here.

And I guess that's what I'm kind of saying metaphorically is that if if I don't deal with this stuff here, I'm never going to get to here. It's going to be I got to hang out with certain people in AA. I got to work a certain job.

I got to have these fears that are set up for me. You know, the white man is keeping a brother down and all of that. You know, it's just this garbage that has nothing to do with how God's going to take care of me and you.

It's all boogeyman stuff. You know, when I first got sober, you know, I moved to Lancaster. There are no black people in Lancaster in 1992.

There are none of them. And the ones that are there, they're in CA. We called it colored anonymous.

You know. And if I would have waited around for my ethnic gender to show up, I would not be standing here with 15 years sober. So, I I'm talking about that blockage.

In in in that gut stuff. The secrets that I ought to be able to share with anybody honestly anywhere in private to help me move forward and and and hopefully the other individual that they're not just digging around in my life to be nosy and find out who I'm sleeping with, but to really make some sort of a spiritual connection with something that's going to keep me from drinking and and and not be such a liar and get thirsty enough to want to drink. I haven't wanted to drink in quite a while now.

I thought about it, but I try to keep clear enough to not really want one. Saves my God a lot of work, I think. I saw two more hands.

It was Curtis and then some What about Curtis? >> Um I've had a little bit of luck so far finding a sponsor. He's uh in the past whole time I've been eligible to sponsor, um I haven't found one sponsor and I was wondering how do you want to about getting a sponsor?

>> I do two things. I do a prayer and I ask God to put someone in my life that needs to go through the steps. I don't ask God to put someone in my life who I can help.

I work with autistic children. I mean, I'm doing that pretty much every day. But that one prayer I ask my higher power for.

And the second thing I do is after the meeting, I talk to the people that ain't talking to nobody. I don't run up and talk to the people that are talking to people. I run up and I talk to the people that are alone, that are by themselves.

You know, uh if a newcomer identifies in a meeting as a new person, if they're in a healthy meeting, they're going to be slammed by five or six guys. Automatically. Women are going to be running over, you know, they're going to be But what I try to Most of the people that I sponsor now, I'd say over half of them are people that I talked to that were alone at the time.

Uh when nobody running up to them saying, "Hey, I'll help you." And it's usually people that have time sober. Jay was telling me that today about, you know, having the establishment of, you know, having all these people in your life and everything. But when you really when I'm really dealing with something that I really don't really want to If I'm hiding from something, you know, a lot of times I won't say anything.

I don't care if a man, woman, or bear is in front of me. I'm going to I'm going to lie. I'm going to practice some self-dishonesty.

And uh And and I just thank God for the people that are able to just kind of see that, you know. And I I'm also a behaviorist, so I watch people and I pay attention to what they're doing. Uh I've listened to people all my life.

I I I don't mind listening. I'm not really good at it, but I'm more into watching cuz I'm not because I'm nosy, but because I'm afraid and I some you know, I I have fears and I want to pay attention to what's going on. So, in answer to your question, I do two things.

I do that prayer, and I talk to the guys that are standing off alone. And I don't care how long they've been sober or what the hell they raise their hand for in the meeting. Because I don't know about you, but my big book says that we do loneliness a little bit differently than anybody else.

You know, that that aloneness is something else. It's a trip, okay? I don't >> Ira, follow up.

>> Hey, Ira. >> Now, Ira, what do you do when you're sponsoring a guy who's wandering off the path again? Who's wandering off the path and he's been around for a while and he's wandering off the path and he's doing less meetings and not connected and just drifting.

You just have that talk with him so many times and he just keeps drifting. What What do you do? Do you throw him out or do you just keep working with him out of charity?

How did you do it? >> It just depends. I mean, the question is, what do you do with somebody that's off the beam?

It just depends on uh the situation. I don't try to carbon copy it. It's not a robot.

Each woman that has come and asked me for help, each guy, each young person, each old person, I mean, I've had guys ask me to sponsor them that have more sobriety than I have. That's really weird. I don't understand that at all, but I would never ask anybody younger than me to be my spot dog.

I'm just kidding. I You never know what that pain that that pain builds up. You never know what you'll do.

You'll ask a buttnaked turtle for help, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, if you got alcoholic pain the way I have it and there's no alcohol around, there's no telling what you'll What do you do when they're off the path? You pray to God that they get back on it, and you and you and and earlier what I said about availability, I try as best as I can to make myself available.

That does not mean that I am not going to deny them the truth. I'm a very assertive person, especially when it comes to sponsorship. Now, I'll beat around the bush when it comes to anything because I have fears and I want to be liked.

But when it comes to AA and that direct connection that you're talking about that you don't believe they're getting, I'm very clear and I am I am I am not above suggesting that they find someone else to help them. And and the only reason why I do that is because a friend of mine, a 19-year-old friend of mine named Brian Bevin, uh, was in the store that I used to work at, uh, up in Lancaster, and he smelled like booze, he looked horrible, and I didn't tell him anything in regards to the truth. I said, "You look great.

I I hope you come back." He died 5 days after that. And I still have pain and frustration over that death. Not because God took him away or alcoholism killed him, it's because I probably had an opportunity to tell him the truth and I didn't.

So, I do not believe in stringing people along, uh, in in a sense that not that they'll get it, but that when they're right there with me at that moment, you said those talks, I try to make sure that I'm not being dishonest with them about the true nature of their malady. Uh, but as far as like making them do AA and and and making them see it my way and all that stuff, I I've been accused of that. I I know that for me, my sponsor didn't screw around with this stuff.

And he was not above or beneath telling people you need to find somebody else that can really help you. Cuz I think that's where the hiding really is. It's not necessarily that he's hiding from you, but he's hiding from what he really has to do.

And I believe that if he's been around here uh a certain amount of time, the big book in the forward to the second edition describes a substantial amount of sobriety as 2 years. There's these two paragraphs of information, and you have to use a little logic, and you do the math, and it's 2 years. And I believe after 2 I mean, look at it.

Drunk or sober, you pretty much hear about everything you're probably going to hear. So, if he's doing that, he knows it. And you just telling him that is probably good enough.

Maybe eventually he'll, you know, do the right thing, but uh I've had to say goodbye to people uh before. And I know that that seems a little harsh. I know people should people say that you should never turn down an AA, but am I really turning down AA if they continue to do it that way?

If they're really not doing AA, then how am I turning down AA? That makes sense. So, I just try to stay available, and if and if they're willing, I'll be there, but if they're not, I'm not either.

Cuz remember, I can drink. Real quick, the only thing that that newcomer offered Bill Wilson, or excuse me, the only thing Bill Wilson offered Abby when he went over to do the call was a drink. He offered He offered Abby a goddamn drink out of everything he could have offered him.

He was coming over there to save his life. And the only thing that Bill as a newcomer could do is say, "Have a drink, buddy." And I'm not going to let any alcoholic put me in that position. I cuz I'll probably wind up taking it.

I I like drinkers, you know. Anymore, Bill? Oh, thank you.

That is not spidioda, is it? The question is, how do you walk them through the process mechanically? I do a couple of things.

Uh A lot of the stuff is intimate. A lot of stuff is personal. My sponsor started out with those biggest fears.

What's going on? Why have you come to me? You know, the great DeAndre.

What's really happening? So, it's really not that mechanical in the beginning because I need to know what he or she is really dealing with. Most people that are new don't realize that they're dealing with alcoholism.

They believe that they're dealing with a circumstance or a condition three-dimensionally. My mom's a you know. My job is, you know, they won't let me whatever.

And so, once I listen to what they're saying, I can usually start off with a self-honesty assignment. Have them define self-honesty in the dictionary and write about that. And then I ask them, what's the most honest thing they've done all day today?

And if they tell me they made their bed or they they were able to pay their own way at lunch, then I tell them that they've got it backwards. That the most honest thing that you can do all day today is not drink if you're an alcoholic. And that also lets me know that they're kind of uh whacked out They're kind of crazy, you know.

So, I have a set of assignments that he gave me that I give my sponsees, but if it's the I fit it around their life and what their needs are. But, it's a set group of little things that he asked me to do that are out of the book. I mean, they don't tell you to look up self-honesty in the big book, but if you don't know what it is, how would it hurt you to look it up in the dictionary?

I think one of the most spiritual books in AA is a dictionary, uh quite frankly. A lot of words didn't make sense to me when I What the hell is a malady? You know, that kind of So, he gave me permission to allow the big book, you know, the book was written Help me in 1938, published in 1939.

There's a lot of words in there that, you know, vestitude. Juggernaut. Yeah, vestitude.

Is that how you say it? Okay, thanks. We got a guy telling me how to say it.

It's the lawyer, be careful. Um so, in answer to your question, there are Yes, there is a set of little things that I have been taught by my original sponsor to to do, but I always try to base it around what the what the guy or gal needs and not what I just want them to have. You know, some people don't need to talk to me every single day.

But, I ask them to call me every day because I might drink. They're calling to make sure they don't have a drunk guy cuz I've known people who've drank, lied about their sobriety, and are running around in AA helping everybody. And, uh so, I ask my sponsors to call me every day because I might be drunk.

I I might take that first drink. There's a good chance that it could happen. Not because I'm off the beam, but because this disease has a never left me.

Never. It's still here. Right now.

So, that's what I do. Anymore? What about you, sir?

>> My name is Jimmy and I'm an alcoholic. >> Hi, Jimmy. >> I'm talking about uh doing everything adopting people that have problems I I understand that.

And I certainly have a age sponsorship program for people over there. But I I also have uh secondary clients. I've done a lot of them.

And I just wanted to get your take on that. Uh a valid way to do it. I probably have adopted four or five guys that didn't even know they were my sponsees, but they in fact were.

At least they caught on eventually. Uh and and I just wanted to get your take on that. Are they all right to have more than one sponsor, if you want to call it Well, good.

>> And I said >> We'll get back to this later. >> Right. Question is, should I have more than one sponsor?

Personally, I don't have that experience. Uh and I think it'd be pretty judgmental of me to kind of comment on that, but in answer to your question, no. I I would not feel comfortable with more than one sponsor.

I have spiritual advisor. I have people that I talk to about Alan Watts and Joseph Campbell. But meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm looking for a fan club, not a fellowship as an alcoholic.

And actively in my sickness, uh I I just know how manipulative I am. I I I just do not feel comfortable having more than one sponsor. I I don't suggest that to my sponsees.

In fact, if one of the people that I sponsor came up and told me, "Well, I have this other guy that's that's sponsoring me in addition to you, then I would probably not consider myself that person's sponsor anymore. I just uh I don't have that experience. I don't know how to do that.

Am I willing to learn that? No, because I believe that if it's not broke, I don't need to fix it. So, I've never had more than one sponsor.

Uh and I seem to be doing a little okay. I mean, I got some stuff going on, but you didn't ask me about that. Uh I'll take one more, and then Steve's about to body slam me.

Yeah. Yeah, I know. I'm about I The whole time you were talking, I was thinking about all the things I can do in 3 minutes.

Not good. Uh the The one thing that real quick quick answer is that I I just believe that that alcoholics are so full of that it is uh not And I'm not looking at you going, "Hey, you're full of shit." I'm I know personally with my own uh special brand of BS. Uh It's easier to work the people than it is to work the program.

It's a lot for me personally. I mean, I and and so what I believe is that page 96 in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous covers a lot of these CoDA type issues that I don't want to break the 10th tradition. You know, you got a lot of undercover Al-Anons in AA.

They're sitting around here helping people to death. I don't believe that Karen accused me of that earlier, but I'm just saying that a lot of times people are hanging out and you it's like you know people that are from AA, but they're not in AA. And it's up to me to be honest with myself.

And so in answer to your question, it's like what is your stomach telling you and how's your sponsor feel about it? You know, that's who I would talk to because my sponsor knows my little Klingon issues with folk. And he knows whether I'm really trying to help somebody or if I'm trying to help myself or if I'm trying to, you know, uh he knows all that stuff and that's one of the reasons why I don't have more than one sponsor is because I need that red phone.

There's an old Batman series that used to come on when we were kids and there the commissioner used to have a red phone. Whenever he needed Batman immediately. No no no caller ID or nothing, just the red phone.

And uh if I don't have that kind of red phone metaphor going, there's no telling, you know, what I'm going to be trying to do. I'll be trying to 12-step somebody uh that really doesn't want it. So I go by page 96 and that's to your question.

I suggest you read that and talk to your sponsor. Steve, I'm done. >> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise.

If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day. >>