Welcome to Sober Sunrise, a podcast bringing you AA speaker meetings with stories of experience, strength, and hope from around the world. We bring you several new speakers weekly, so be sure to subscribe. If you'd like to help us remain self-supporting, please visit our website at sober-rise.com.

Whether you join us in the morning or at night, there's nothing better than a sober sunrise. We hope that you enjoy today's speaker. >> The guy that that that I met a while ago, I met him here at the club and uh it was a good conversation.

Mikey Crawford was here, a few other guys was here. I think Frank was here and uh it uh made me think that day. So, uh, I want to thank him for for helping him la helping me last weekend keep my wife company.

Um, yeah, I really appreciate that. I mean, that sounds terrible, man. Sounds terrible.

>> Sorry. >> Yeah, I do what I can where I can. >> Sorry.

Sorry for a later date, you know. But, uh, he's a good guy. He's got a great AA message.

And, and I'd like to introduce Joe from Woodstock. >> Thanks, Brian. Brian, >> do I need this microphone?

Are there people back there or? >> Oh, yeah. Okay.

>> Oh, yeah. >> All right. My name is Joe and I'm an alcoholic.

>> Thanks everybody for coming out. Uh this is the first time I've got in front of uh um a group like this and and carried this message. Um uh you know, I've know a lot of you from coming to meetings and we have a lot of common bond.

This is an open meeting. Not all of us are alcoholics. and I'm going to explain to you what my experience is uh and was, what my strengths are, and what my hope is.

Um, and hopefully I'll do that in a general way. And if I don't, somebody will give me some eyes, I'm sure. Um, you know, for me, it started um a long time ago.

I'm one of the alcoholics that came from alcoholics. My parents were alcoholics. It doesn't necessarily have to be the case for everybody, but that's my case.

Um, and growing up, long before I ever took a drink or consciously took a drink, um, I saw alcoholism in my family. I saw that my parents would drink and they would fight and there would be wreckage, there would be catastrophe, there would be problems. And as a small child, six, seven years old, that didn't make sense to me.

I didn't understand. If you knew that that was going to be the outcome, why would you participate in this alcohol? It just it didn't add up, you know, and I thought, why don't you know, it just this seems so crazy, you know, and um it is crazy and that's the reality of it.

And my family members told me that I was probably going to be an alcoholic. Now, there's some argument on the genetic side of things, so I'm not really here to do that today. But from an early age, I accepted that I was an alcoholic.

um accepting what that meant. That didn't come till much later. Um but I knew that I was an alcoholic and I really had a genuine interest in not drinking alcohol and using drugs from a very young age.

Um and it just didn't make sense to me why my father would continually do it. My mother would continually do it. holidays would come and and you know uh broken noses and furniture out the window and typical wreckage that many of us who come from those type of homes have witnessed.

So I didn't want any part of it. Um and I, you know, felt that that was going to be the way it was, you know. And then I turned 15 and I got out behind the factories with some friends of mine and uh they were passing around a peppermint snaps bottle and I uh I took a couple pulls on that peppermint snaps bottle and it was the first time where the physical process of swallowing it wasn't extremely horrible.

And I was able to do that enough times in su succession to where I felt that warm glow. All of a sudden, it felt to me like um I could deal with what was going on right at that moment. Um I didn't understand why my parents would continually do something that would end up in catastrophe.

And all of a sudden, I understood because I felt like I could compete. Up until that point, I felt like I wasn't good-looking enough. I wasn't smart enough.

If you know me, I definitely wasn't athletic enough. Um, there was many things that I felt insecure about inside of me that once I started drinking alcohol, I could deal with that when I was around you people. Um, I listen to a lot of speaker tapes and you may hear me say things that have been passed along from other speaker tapes.

And one of the things that I really enjoy hearing is um the alcoholism set me up with a tool for living which was I compared my insides to your outsides and I lost every time. If I saw a glimpse of your life where something looked manageable and you were using drugs and alcohol, I wanted that. If I, you know, if I saw that facade that many people put um when they're out in a in a party or social atmosphere, I I compared all of my deep dark secrets and insecurities against that physical exterior that I saw within you and I lost every time.

I was a loser every single time when I did that. Um when I took the alcohol, I wasn't the loser anymore. All of a sudden, I felt like I belonged.

I could compete. Not only could I compete, but all of a sudden I'm better looking than this guy or I'm smarter than this guy or I'm funnier than this guy or now all of a sudden it made sense, you know, and these guys who I barely knew were now my very close personal friends. You we had this bonding arrangement with and at this point I suffered from a lack of power and alcohol provided me that power and it was still in a manageable phase.

Um so to me I had stumbled on a tool for living like none other. Uh there was nothing else in my life, no religion, no school, no no girlfriend that would enable me to feel this way. This was a whole new thing.

This was a trump card for life. Uh and I got really drunk and really sick and had that first major hangover, you know, where I'm just completely sick to my stomach and just sitting in the bathtub. And we all know that part of things.

Um, and that began my cycle of dealing with the unmanageable side of alcohol, but making the compromise that it was worth it. And start soon as I started making those small compromises, the stakes got higher. Just like in gambling, you start off small and it ends up everything's on the line.

And that's what ended up happening in my in my usage. Um, my parents had gotten divorced. Uh, go figure, two alcoholics battling each other.

They finally got divorced. It was a welcome thing to me and I got into high school completely insecure. The only way I found connecting was um in getting in trouble um and started smoking weed.

You know, drugs are a part of my story. U this is alcoholic synonymous. Um so to put you at ease, I can let you know that every drug I ever used I used quite alcoholically.

Um I did it the same way I did beer, the same way I did whiskey, the same way I did everything was the way I did drugs. The only difference was alcohol is the only thing reliable. The drugs brought me to my knees quicker in my life.

And for that reason, I'm grateful I didn't have to spend my entire life letting alcoholism tear me apart um any further. Drugs brought me to my knees quicker. And I think people of my generation and of the newer generation can identify with that.

Um, as uh we've we've hit bottoms that sometimes I feel that some of the old-timers don't understand. It took your addiction and strictly alcohol 30 years to do what it takes a person now with street drugs and alcohol a matter of months. You know, um I've heard it around the rooms that a heroin addict has nothing in common with a alcoholic and I think that's entirely false.

Although the situations are not the same, the addiction is uh and and once I've come to learn more about addiction, I realized that in my personal opinion, I'm not powerless over addiction. I'm powerless over the substances. I have the power to come to meetings.

I have the power to ask God for help. I have the power to ask God to grant me with the gift, the true gift of surrender. I have the power to do that step work.

I have the power to get advice from the people around me and to do the best I can at acting out of that. to have those powers. Those powers didn't come overnight.

Um, I'm not new to Alcoholics Anonymous. I have uh I've been in and out. Currently, I have I've been sober since July 13th, 2008.

So, I'm looking at a little over seven months of sobriety right now. I first came into this program when I was 17. I'm now 37.

spent 20 years of coming in and out with some jail mixed in there, some different things of basically trying to work the cafeteria plan, which in my opinion is just like in the cafeteria. I want this. I don't want that.

I want this. I want don't want that. I'll do this stuff, but I won't do that one.

You know, I'll say I'm sorry, but I ain't paying nobody back. Screw that. You know, um I'll admit to certain things, but I won't admit to everything.

I tried variations of that program. I tried variations of letting my will run the show. That did not work out for me.

Um, in the process of surrendering, um, I learned a lot about myself and that didn't come overnight. I had life experiences as I drank through high school and used marijuana through high school. Um, in I grew up in Chicago.

I lived 32 years in the city of Chicago. I don't know. For some reason, we thought we were better than these suburban people.

I have no clue why that was. Truth of the matter is we were probably worse. But um growing up in Chicago, uh I started with marijuana and and obviously the drinking.

And uh then one night me and my cousin decided we were going to go down to the hood and get some get some weed. And the guy came up to the car and he says, "How many?" And when I you know, it's one, you know, and I'm all looking around. I'm same height I am now, but about 155 pounds.

Um, and uh, he came back and threw this little baggie into the car. It was filled with a white substance that I had never seen before in my life. We got it home and we sat and stared at it for about a half an hour.

And uh, I don't know, is this bleach? Is this, you know, baby powder? It was $10.

I'm probably dating myself, but it was $10. And uh, you know, we stared at it for a good long time. We finally did that.

And like I said, the same thing. We we used it alcoholically. I used it to get out of how I felt about who I was at that very moment.

I got it in me and I needed more. Um that's a a trait we typically stereotype with cocaine. Um but this alcoholic did that with marijuana, too.

You know, I would buy the most expensive marijuana and I couldn't smoke fast enough, you know, because I more was my game. When when I was asked later in life and rehab, what's your drug of choice? Mine was more.

What do you got? Show me what you got. Let's have that.

we'll find some more, you know. Um, and that's how I lived my life was constantly taking more. Um, it was hard for me to when I was up here at my brother's house uh in in Mckenry when I was 17 and he busted me drinking, he took me to an AA meeting and the first time I ever walked into an AA meeting was the old club in Crystal Lake.

I don't remember a damn thing about it, anything at all. And I went to meetings for a few weeks. just wasn't my time in life.

It wasn't it I wasn't ready. The situation wasn't ready. But, you know, the most important thing was the seed was planted.

I knew that there was an option out there that ultimately when all else failed, that option was going to be there for me. Um, I was a part of the program for a very short time. I then went back to the city where I was from because I did not want to be out here.

I didn't want to be anywhere where I was. I don't know if anybody can relate to that, but uh I was the type of person that no matter what party I was at, no matter what friends I was with, there was always something better around the corner that I needed to be at cuz I couldn't stand right now. Um going forward a little bit, um the cocaine use escalated.

Go figure. Doesn't take the um Columbbo to figure that out. Um, but I started getting involved with drugs to the point where I sacrificed other things in my life to be involved with drugs.

And on December 2nd, 1991, at approximately 2 p.m. in the afternoon, I was arrested by a team of 25 drug enforcement agents. I was arrested with 490.8 grams of cocaine.

And I was 19 years old. And I went to jail. And I was scared out of my mind.

I didn't know what to do. And I thought my life was over and the drug enforcement agents were trying really hard to get me to cooperate and to work with them and start snitching on people and my head was in a million different places. I knew that I was an addict.

I was an addict at that point. I was a I was an alcoholic although that side of me had not yet blossomed. Um if blossom is a just use of that word.

Um and I went to jail. I was uh I was sentenced I think it was May 14th or 19th to uh 41 months in federal prison of which I served exactly 36 months which was an amazing experience in my life. Um it was the first time in my life where pressure was taken off of me because I had a place to live.

I had something to eat and I had no requirement to be anywhere else. I was stuck where I was at. And that may sound crazy to a lot of you people.

But for the first time in my life, I was grounded literally. And it wasn't for some time until I realized that I was there because I needed to be there. I was responsible for the drug for the drugs that I sold.

Um, I had plenty of people that told me it's it's that 19-year-old gets that much time. But, you know, honestly, um, and this is not right. But, uh, I'm a white male from Chicago, and I met plenty of African-American males who had the same amount of drugs that just happened to be cooked in a microwave.

And those guys never saw the light of day again. They received life in jail. >> Now, why that has happened to them and what happened to me happened to me, I don't know.

We could sit and discuss politics, but that's not what we do in these rooms. We take responsibility and we deal with life as it's dealt to us. Now, if it was dealt to me, I did 36 months and and I on a 41-month sentence.

Um, and I accepted where I was at. I was out of the denial and I realized that my life of drugs and alcohol got me to where I was and I didn't want that anymore. Didn't know what to do about it yet.

I didn't surrender to the fact that AA was something that I needed. I was in jail and I was offered drugs and alcohol. Um, and I turned them down.

I on a very early occasion I did take a drink of what is called hooch. I don't recommend it. People that are laughing in the room with me, I know they've been around and they've been there.

Uh, it's a homemade alcohol and it's also very dangerous. Um, and I didn't want any part of that and I realized I was in jail and I had to do the best with what I had. It's the first time in my life where being sobered up, I realized that I was capable of certain things.

Standardized testing and a lot of teachers along the way told me that I was an intelligent person, but I never had the grounding to do anything with that. Wasn't until I got to jail where I actually was able to apply myself in my studies and I actually received an associates degree in business administration from a school that worked at the prison. and I was able to start something and accomplish it because that my head was clear and sober.

Um, that would not last for very long. I got out of prison and I was 23 years old, I believe. And I wanted to experience what it was like to be in a bar and have a drink.

And uh, I went to a club downtown called Kaboom. I don't know if anybody remembers that. And uh, I had a Zema because I'm a tough guy, you know.

And I had about another five Zeas, you know, and the cycle started like like I had never learned any sort of lesson. Um, I had not yet realized that really will and my moral code really had nothing to do with the fact that I was an alcoholic. Um, and I had to learn going forward from there certain realities about life and how I felt about situations.

I got out of jail. My insecurities were screaming. Being in a room full of people this close would freak me out because you don't get that close to people in jail.

It just doesn't work that way. When I got back out and was in this type of situation, things were freaking me out. I could no longer deal with the present.

So, I had to get out of the present. And the best way I know is to called I call it renting a euphoria. Drugs and alcohol.

I got back into it. It was like I never stopped. Um, I kept using I was going to school at Lyola University out of jail.

They gave me a presidential scholarship. I don't know why. They probably learned their lesson from that.

But, um, I went to school and I couldn't afford to stay. I I didn't have the money. My parents didn't have the money and I needed to go to work.

And I met another guy and he was in a similar situation. And um, there was this new thing out called the internet. and uh myself and another guy sat down and said, you know, we should start a website for apartment rentals.

And we joked about it and we joked about it. We started working on it and um it turned into kind of a big deal. Um at 25 years old, uh fresh out of jail, didn't finish my degree at Lyola, I started an internet business and before I knew it, I was receiving investments from people.

For the next four years, I received investments of over $2 million and generated another $2 million. I personally spent $4 million in four years with this company. It afforded me many opportunities and it boosted my ego to a place where I never knew it was possible.

Um, before all of that came about, I was drinking and I was using drugs and the business was growing. Many of us use drugs. How many people out here use drugs and alcohol when times were bad?

A lot of hands up. How many used drugs and alcohol when times were good? Okay.

How many people use drugs and alcohol when they were in love? >> When they left, when they wouldn't let you back. Yeah.

Started realizing it's really not the situations that are involved that had to do with me using drugs and alcohol. It was my way to cope. Um, but this business was growing and I said, I I can't do both of these at the same time and the pressure was too much and I got really really drunk and I got a DUI and two weeks later I bought a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee and I crashed into a parked car at 65 miles an hour about two blocks from my house and I I actually limp kind of limp slash ran home on a broken ankle.

I woke up in the morning and you know that feeling when you wake up and you knew something catastrophic happened the night before, you know, and I'm not talking about the ugly person in bed with you. I'm talking about something seriously wrong and you're looking for your car and wondering if it was a dream. And uh I was worried.

I was worried about the legal repercussions. I just had a DUI. I was worried about the financial repercussions.

I just brought a brand new car and here it was. Um, I had a new business with new employees taking investment and I was a complete embarrassment of myself and I couldn't deal with it. I called up my brother who at the time I think had about 10 years of sobriety who introduced me to AA when I was 17 and on February 20th which was yesterday I think 1998 I went to uh the Mustard which is a club in uh in Chicago very famous AA club.

It's a really fine mix of people that attend this club. Um, everywhere from Skid Row all the way up to people that live on Lakeshore Drive. And uh, and just a wonderful mix of people.

And I wanted the message so bad. I wanted I wanted to jump into this thing. And um, my brother was all set to show me this really great meeting.

And we got there and it was like something out of a Ben Stiller movie cuz the guy got up there and he started to talk and he had cereable pausy or MS or something. So he got up there and we thought it was going to be this big huge profound moving speaker statement that was going to part the sea and open my way to AA, you know, and this guy got up there and he was not even I couldn't even understand what he had to say. But I wanted the message so bad.

My brother's like, "Oh, screw this. Let's go to another place. I can't even understand this guy." you know, and uh and I'm like, "No, let's just, you know, I really wanted it and I listened." Um, and I started attending meetings.

Um, and I I stayed sober for two years and my business grew incredibly. Um, during that time, uh, I'm going to fill you in some details. It's not because I'm bragging.

I don't have any of these things anymore, so I'm not bragging. But um I was asked to speak at the University of Chicago master's degree program on internet commerce uh which was all of a sudden I'm in amongst the educational people and I'm telling them something. There goes that ego, you know.

Um my accountants met with me one day and took me out to to to dinner to tell me that I was officially a millionaire. I didn't feel it. I didn't have the money, but I had the worth and supposedly I was officially a millionaire.

Ego went up and out the window. Um things kept progressing in the business. I was featured on Fox News for a young entrepreneur and um I got all kinds of calls from a lot of places and the business just really started taking off.

The business was bigger than my set of capabilities. I was no longer fit to be the best person to run this this place and the pressure was incredible. I was 26 or seven years old.

It's too much, you know, and I was soberish because I went I didn't drink and I didn't use drugs, but I just went to meetings. I hadn't worked the steps. I didn't have a sponsor.

I didn't get down on my knees. I didn't pray to God. There's a lot of things I didn't do um that I do today and I didn't do that.

And uh those half half measures availed me nothing. Um and in the end, I was on a flight to uh to New Orleans with my assistant and uh my marketing manager and the stewardist came by. Again, I'm dating myself.

I'm calling him a steartist. The flight attendant came by and said, "We have, you know, there was Heineken in the cans. I never drank cans and I never drank Heineken.

But for some reason, the fact that Heineken was in a can, some of you young guys maybe don't know that that wasn't like that then. I uh I had to have it and I had it and I got drunk as a skunk that night. Totally shot.

And uh the cycle continued. I came back to Chicago and I was going to try to lie about it to my group and ultimately I just said what we alcoholics are so good at saying, "F it." And just uh just quit and started using again. Um, I started using again and my life changed.

Uh, the board of directors came to me. Um, people that I had brought in, took their investment and um, we talked about bringing in another person. I had job opportunities out in Los Angeles with NBC.

I thought I was going to be a big star. Ego was huge. Um, none of that happened.

I left my company. I sold out my company um, and did financially very well. uh and turned into the worst person I have ever met in my life because I just was completely insensitive to everything.

And uh that process was not a fun one. Um I had everything that I wanted moneywise, friend-wise, everything. I had a beautiful condo on Lakes Drive by where the river meets the lake.

I could not stand to be there alone because I felt horrible about who I was. I couldn't deal with life on life's terms at all. And uh the using continued and I came in contact with some friends that were the most abusive alcoholics I've ever met in my life.

And I felt I needed to be in that category. And that brought me to a whole different level. The stock market crashed.

All my net worth was gone. I'm burning through $20,000 a month to find out that there was nothing left. And uh the little bit that I salvaged up and and scraped away and sold, I moved out to Aspen, Colorado.

And I was very bitter, very very bitter. And uh I stayed out in Colorado for almost six years, coming back and forth, back and forth. Ultimately, this this u relapse lasted for eight years and led me to a place where I never thought I'd be.

All of the yets that I hadn't yet experienced earlier in life, I didn't drink in the morning. I only drank this or I only drank that. I only drink a certain times a week.

Those were all gone. It was every day, all day. Drugs weren't reliable.

I couldn't always find drugs, but I could always find alcohol. And I used alcohol uh to try to let me deal with the present, and that wasn't the case. So, after burning more bridges in Colorado and being very bitter about my life, um I decided I was going to come back to Chicago and I was going to um get sober.

I was going to be back in AA and I had broke my foot in Colorado on Valentine's Day of last year. Bet my right foot completely back and uh God had literally broken me my foot to slow me down. I came back to Chicago a whipped dog and I decided I was going to go to rehab.

Uh, and I don't know if anybody can relate to this one last harrah before rehab deal. >> Yeah, I think you guys belong here too. Um, that lasted a few months of hell, you know, of absolute hell.

And I went to rehab thinking rehab was going to solve my problems and make me sober. And about two weeks into it, I walked out, couldn't wait for the traffic light to turn across the street. I crossed the street and I got drunk at the OTB again and it failed again.

My will didn't work. What I should do shouldn't didn't work. Um and I was right back to where I was and I didn't know what to do.

And uh somebody was supposed to pick me up, a family member, and they didn't. And I'm glad that they didn't today because um I really woke up that morning uh in a motel room on the north side of Chicago. um still with some money left, which amazed me.

And um I went back and saw my dad. I'd been staying with him and he was disgusted and I was disgusted and he said, "I don't know what you're going to do, but I can't watch you do this." My dad's an alcoholic. He's telling me this, >> you know, I was so nerve, you know, and uh I I don't know what happened.

If I knew what happened, I'd figure it out and I'd bottle it up and I'd give it to anybody here who's struggling with the concept of surrender. But I I basically lift lifted my hands to the sky and I'm a person who's not religious, spiritual, or anything like that. And I said, "God, I don't know who I'm talking to or who's out there or whatever, but if you please open the door, I will walk through it, whatever that may mean." I hadn't talked to my mother in years.

Um, all of my family I turned my back on when I had my success. I was, in many ways, if you're at all familiar with any religious stories, the prodical son, except that it was the opposite way around. I gave my family money and wanted them to leave me the hell alone.

And for some reason, you know, today in this day and age, we don't know anybody's phone number, you know, and when I was a kid, I would memorize my number and stuff and other people's number. I'd know your number and I'd know your number. And with cell phones, you don't do that anymore.

>> And uh for some reason, I know what the reason is. I'm not going to tell you because you got to figure that out on your own. But um this number came into my mind and it was my mother's cell phone number.

And I called my mother and I hadn't talked to a word and I says, "Mom, I'm broken. I can't do this anymore. I need help.

Rehab didn't work. Nothing's worked. I don't know what to do." And she said, my mother is an alcoholic, too.

And she said, "Well," and this is July 12th, 2008. She said, "I have been sober for two months, >> and if you want to come out to Woodstock, Illinois, you're welcome to come out here." And uh I said, "Where the is Woodstock, Illinois?" And she said, "You know that movie The Groundhog Day?" And I'm like, "Oh god, if I hear that story again, I'm gonna shoot everybody in on the square." But um I said, "Yeah, I want to Okay, I want to come out." She said, "Well, if you want I'll give you some money. You know, I owe you money.

I'll give you money. You can go back to Colorado if you want to." And and I said, "No, because I made a deal with God. I said, "If you open the door, I'll walk through it." And this door came swinging open.

and I walked through it and I came in back here on Sunday, July 13th, 2008 and um I got on her computer and I looked up Alcoholics Anonymous because that's the only answer I knew. That seed had been planted. I didn't know any other answers and I found the Woodstock Alleno Club Sunday night meeting um which I've attended every Sunday since unless I've been at another meeting in another area and I've been sober ever since.

Um why my life changed at that point was because in my eyes I surrendered. I and I surrender is not something I can do but something God has to give me. Um I have a problem with Christianity and I have a problem with the Bible and I have a problem with organized religion and I have a problem I have all of these things that in my 20s I could go on for hours and tell you why I didn't believe in what you believed in.

But I couldn't talk for 3 minutes and tell you what I did believe in. I got to this program and on the first day I knew the things that I didn't do the first time around. I didn't read the book.

I didn't get a sponsor. I didn't pray and I wasn't honest. So I did all of those things starting on the first day and I got a temporary sponsor and I got myself a book and I uh I knew that this is where I belonged and this is what I had to do.

And um I started doing the deal. I love that expression because it's it's it's what it is, you know. I'm not special anymore than anybody else in this room, you know.

And um I started working through the steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and I started learning about this thing called alcoholism that I really didn't know about even in two years of going to meetings and being sober. I didn't even know about to tell how much I did not pay attention when I was an alcoholics anonymous for those two years on my website. that I wanted to explain to the consumers of Chicago how my website worked for finding an apartment.

So I came up with the ingenious original idea to make a page called how it works. Where do you think I got that from? I didn't even make the correlation that I got that from Alcoholics Anonymous.

That shows how much I didn't pay attention. I came back into the program. I started reading that how it works and it started making a whole lot of sense.

Um I learned about Dr. Silkworth and I learned about the two folds of this disease. I learned that we have a physical allergy that results in the phenomenon of craving and we have an obsession of the mind that tries to convince us that we don't have a physical allergy.

Little vacuum that you live in. There's a couple vacuums I lived in. I had a huge ego and I had no self-esteem.

Try that one out. Try living through that. You know, think about that for a minute.

You think you're the greatest, but you think you're the worst on the inside. I know you guys know what I'm talking about. um realizing that I was powerless over alcohol and that I was an alcoholic.

I never had a problem aditting I was alcoholic. It was what I had to do about it that was a problem that I had. Lack of power, the book says is my dilemma.

You know, I was powerless. If I you take that away, you better give me something that's going to work better than that. Otherwise, it deals off, you know, because my will and my fear and my hope, all those things are form of self and they're going to run out someday, you know.

And I heard the thing that I didn't want to hear that the only way I was going to get this was if I created a spiritual experience, which was about the last thing that I wanted to hear at that point, you know, but again, these doors kept swinging open and I had to keep stepping up to the plate. And the beauty of this program is you start with some corner of something you do believe in and you move forward. Beauty of learning about the physical allergy resulting in the phenomenon of craving and the obsession of the mind was that everything that I had done in alcoholism and in drug addiction.

I realized that that moment was not my fault. Was an addict behaving like an addict and an alcoholic behaves. And it took a lot of that responsibility off of me.

And I was able to manage things that I needed to do that were ultimately going to create the spiritual experience that was going to save my life. I was powerless over alcohol. If I drank, I was going to drink more.

My life would become unmanageable. I had this obsession in the mind that would not only teach me that I wanted to drink, but would teach me to ruin everything around me. Because self-pity and self-seeking is where my disease wants me.

doesn't want me feeling good about myself. Doesn't want me having good healthy relationships. Doesn't want me having the respect of my family.

So, it attacks all of those things. Disease does not start or end at the substance. And that's the hard part.

Um, I can I can fix the physical allergy by not taking any alcohol, but the only way I can manage my obsession of the mind because I don't think it ever goes away is by having a spiritual experience. And the only way I can have a spiritual experience is by working these steps. up.

>> That's how it works, you know. And um I had to come to believe that a power greater than myself was going to restore me to sanity. A power greater than myself.

It was myself that was hope. It was myself that was fear. It was myself that was my moral code.

It was everything was a form of self. My disease was a form of self. You know, rock, paper, scissors.

You can't beat paper with paper. You can't beat self with self. I couldn't get that concept.

20 years on that one. 20 years on that one. You know, took something greater than myself to restore me to sanity.

Was I insane? Was I ever an institution? Was in a penal institution.

Some of you are snickering because I said penal. Probably. >> You are.

And uh but you know what given a set of choices a set of options it really at this point in my life I really everything was reactive. I wasn't working on looking at my options and making the best move for me. It was whatever was best for my addiction.

Giving a set of options I consistently chose the more insane option on a regular basis. That was my insanity. Given options I would consistently choose the most up one every time.

That was my insanity. I needed to be restored from that. I needed to res be restored to the point where I had options again, where I can look at what was my will and I can look at what was God's will and I can make my best attempt to get as close to God's will as I possibly could.

And that's what I learned about step three. Made a decision to turn my will in my life over the care of God as I understood him is God that I defined. I made a decision that I was going to keep trying to do this will.

Not that I was going to be perfect, but that I was going to keep trying. My willingness was going to be there to keep trying. Once I knew something was wrong, I was going to do the best I could to no longer do that.

Even if it wasn't directly related to putting a substance into my body at that very second. But if I knew it was wrong, if I knew it was against my God's will, I could no longer have permission to do that. And I had to keep trying because I'm not perfect and I'm not going to be perfect, but I just have to make the commitment that I'm going to keep trying.

Step four, sit down and write about myself on paper. If you're if you're stuck on this spot, it's it's a common thing, you know. Nobody ever said step four, sit down and write the world's greatest novel about yourself.

You know, nobody ever said that. I although I set out to do that and that did not work out for me. I had to God again brought me to a place where my best idea writing this autobiography.

And if it worked for you, great. I'm telling you about my experience. My best idea at four months sober was to go into the bar and order a couple of beers and write out my forep because my emotions were brought up too much in my in my autobiography that I felt I needed to write.

I went back to the book and I the book doesn't say it says write an inventory. It says listed out our things on paper. And I asked God, please help me with this.

And again, God again reliably brought a person into my life that said here look this is how I did it. here's how you could do it. And I did it.

It just was done. You know, some work, some time, couple Sundays at Culver's and I was in. You know, I'm a food addict, too.

Stop judging me. I got that done and I got to sit down with my sponsor and go through my fifth step. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I had I had admitted a lot of things in my life.

I talked about a lot of in my life. I'd coped to a lot of things, wasn't so hung up on the fact that I had to come to terms with who I was, but I just wanted to know that I fulfilled the requirements that were asked of me and I could move on to the next step. And I sat down and I said my fifth step with my sponsor and um it was a wonderful bonding experience.

At the end of it, he told me something very personal about himself. He shared himself with me as a man with dignity. Um, and he said, "Welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous." And uh, it was a very touching point in my in my life.

You know, I was doing the deal. I wasn't just around the fellowship. I was in the program.

I was doing what was asked of me. You know, six and seven. I worked on six and seven.

Does anybody know, did anybody know before here what a shortcoming was? Cuz I didn't. You know, >> I didn't know what that was.

character defects and shortcomings just is like Arabic to me you know I can actually write Arabic I couldn't write out my defects you know but um to me the character defects are the things that are alive with inside of us and the shortcomings are the manifestations of those defects and when that obsession of the mind that is part of the disease is not managed by a spiritual experience by doing this deal that obsession of the mind gets a hold of these character defects And it creates wreckage. It creates wreckage. It creates financial wreckage.

It It creates romantic wreckage. It creates emotional wreckage. It creates a lot of By doing the deal in this program was able to ask to bring myself to be ready to have them removed and ask God to help me with those shortcomings.

And that's what I did. As the book told me to do, I started on the next step. I listed down on paper the people that I had wronged.

And I began to make a list of the people it was time for me to make amends to. And I went through that with my sponsor when we talked about these relationships. And some people I had to make amends for money.

Some people have to make amends for um the things that happened in life. And one of the guys that's in this program and many of you might know him, he's got 47 years of sobriety. He told me, you know, it's not about the things that you did, it's about the things that you didn't do.

the brother that you weren't, the person that you weren't in a relationship, the son that you weren't, the nephew and the uncle that you weren't. Those are the amends that count more than the fact that you told somebody off one night or something like that. And I came to terms with those and I went out and started making those amends to my family and my friends.

I went back to Colorado with my sponsor and we did some beautiful things. I was nervous about going cuz travel, remember what happened to me when I traveled the last time I was sober? Yeah, I didn't want that to happen again.

And uh my sponsor came with me, went out to to uh Colorado in December, which is a beautiful place. And we did cool stuff like have meetings on the mountain and meditate on the mountain and and work steps and talk about God uh and and do it as as two adult responsible men do. And it was a beautiful thing.

We got to visit a different club in a different city and see how this thing comes alive in different places with different people and the lives it saves and the lights it turns on in people and that was amazing. You know, I got through my nine steps and I got back here and I started working on the 10th steps which is every day of my life. I work the first step.

I work the second step. I work the third step. I work the 10th step.

I work the 11th step. And I work the 12th step. Because the 10th step means that I got to continue this process once it's done once.

It's not done forever. It's got to go on forever. I've got to be held accountable for who I am.

Got to be held accountable for my actions. And I've got to run the rights the best that I can at the point I can't except when it's going to harm others. And I learned that I talked to my sponsor.

I learned that I read the book. I learned that I pray and I learned that I go to meetings. And if I do those things, everything else seems to work out.

It may not be my definition of what working out is in the beginning, but no matter what it is I end up with, I'm happy at that point versus having everything and being unhappy. This is a whole new way of life for me. Creating a conscious contact with God through prayer and meditation was something that was incomprehensible to me walking in this program.

I thought a prayer was something that I sit down and I recite. I know what prayer is. That's a one-way deal.

What is this conscious contact stuff about? That's a two-way communication to me. I ask God for help and guidance.

And he gives me you guys. He gives me your words. He gives me your examples that are good and some of you examples that are bad.

And he gives me the wisdom to know the difference. And then he packages all his stuff and he says, "Okay, little buddy. go on out there and share this with the mess knucklehead that walks through the door that needs the same thing you needed seven months ago.

That's called carrying the message. I'm not here to fix anybody's life. I'm here to stay sober.

And that's very clear to me. That's my primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. This is out there for everybody, you know.

And the only way to keep it fresh and real because you know what? My story is is going to be boring. If it's not boring already, it's going to be boring the next time you hear it.

Whatever other person, what other sensational story they have, that's going to be boring, too. The drama, meeting new people is going to get old. Those meetings are not going to be as much fun to get up and go to when life happens.

You know, somebody told me you only need to go to one meeting a week. >> You just don't know which day that is. So, you got to keep going every day.

And I like that. You know, I don't mind coming to meetings. I enjoy it.

But what keeps it fresh for me, even in in my early sobriety right now, is the fact that I get to work with other people. I don't have to. I get to I get to work with other people.

I get to carry the message as I'm doing right now. And I get to talk about my experience, my strength, and my hope because that's all I have. Those tax statements that I have from the days when things were really quote unquote good for me are nothing compared to the relationships that I have with the people that are in this room, the people that are across this country who do this deal and who share this message with the people that are around them because I've met some of the most amazing people in Alcoholics Anonymous that I've ever met in my life.

And you then you guys introduced me to the the person who I I'm completely amazed by and that's myself because I did not know myself. I did not. And I've got a lot more to learn.

I've got a ton more to learn. And that's where the new people help me keep things fresh and I want to stay there. I look forward to working with people.

I see people like John who work with, you know, I don't know what 60 70 people at a time, you know, constantly doing the deal. people like Dumpster Jim that will always give you the time a day and a smile and something to laugh about when he knows damn well your life sucks. You know, it's that compassion, that ability to tap into that network.

was explaining to his spontane today that no matter where you are, this thing called AA is wherever you are. I promise you and you could tap into that and you have people just like you that are available to help you get through your problems. You know, in Alcoholics Anonymous, I learned about boundaries.

My whole life, I had to pay attention to boundaries that were set by other people. I get to set boundaries on my own now, too. I don't have to live my life on the edge of a boundary.

You know, I'm a big guy. If I have to, I could probably turn a cartwheel. Please don't ask me to do it.

>> I would. >> I could probably do it, but I don't want to have to do that on the edge of the Grand Canyon. And that's how I see living a lot of things that go on that live life, you know, doing the things that aren't suggested that you're free to do.

You're free to learn all this stuff on your own. You're also free to take the advice and the suggestion in that conscious contact that comes back to you, that prayer that comes back to you from other people that are trying to spare you the pain. But if you're anything like me, a good talking to you never worked.

You had to learn on your own anyway, you know. Um, and basically, you just have to keep going and keep trying. and we make mistakes and I say things that piss people off and I hurt people that I love.

But I do it because I believe in this program and I believe that going forward there's nothing that I could say or do as long as I keep trying that can't be fixed and that's what's most important to me. And uh carrying this message is something new and it's something I'm proud of. When I first came in, I met this guy, Steo.

I see Steo in the corner over there. Steo worked through the program and he was ready to carry the message and he had four months and I criticized him and I said, "What the hell would somebody want somebody with four months sponsoring them and that's ridiculous." I was a ridiculous one. If somebody told that to Bill and Bob, we wouldn't be sitting here right now.

You know, I've since made amends to Steo when he knows I have the utmost respect for him because he got out there and he did what was right for his sobriety regardless of what somebody else said about him. He didn't need somebody else's opinion to make him feel good about himself. He wasn't looking for something external to feel better about himself internally because he had his relationship with God to do that and he just had to keep up that relationship.

And to do that, we got to do the deal, you know. So, I'm happy to be here today in a room with a bunch of alcoholics and addicts as beautiful as you people are. I'm happy to share the message of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I'm grateful that you had me here today, and I hope you appreciated the time we spent together.

>> Thank you for listening to Sober Sunrise. If you enjoyed today's episode, please give it a thumbs up as it will help share the message. Until next time, have a great day.